Angels prospect Mike Trout reached base in all four of his at-bats at this year's All-Star Futures Game, twice on hits, and twice after "forcing errors on sharply struck grounders," to quote MLB.com's Lyle Spencer. It was yet another impressive performance for the 18-year-old Trout, and one that reiterates his value to the Los Angeles organization. This is why Bob Nightengale of USA Today tweets that any potential deal of Trout for a proven major leaguer seems highly unlikely.
It shouldn't necessarily come as a surprise that the Halos are hesitant to deal their first-round pick (25th overall) from the 2009 amateur draft. After all, Trout has a .358/.440/.509 line in 579 plate appearances for the Angels' rookie ball and single-A affiliates, plus 58 steals in 69 attempts and a good center field glove. Baseball America's John Manuel ranks Trout second amongst all minor leaguers on BA's list of the top 25 midseason prospects.
So while holding onto Trout bodes well for LAA's future, it might also curb their ability to acquire a big hitter at this season's trade deadline. Players like Prince Fielder or Adam Dunn who have been rumored to be on the Angels' radar could almost certainly be had for a trade package that included Trout. But since Trout seems to be untouchable, Los Angeles probably doesn't have the necessary minor league talent to attract a superstar big bat. Hank Conger and Peter Bourjos were both ranked on BA's preseason top 100 prospects list, and Luis Jimenez also played well in the Futures Game, but overall, the Angels' system lacks depth. The 2010 Baseball America Handbook ranked the Angels' minor-league system as 25th among all major league teams, the same spot that they finished in the 2009 ranking.
Dealing prospects at this point would only serve to weaken an already-thin system, so as we approach the deadline, it's most likely that we see the Angels make a "plan B" style move for some bench help. For example, Hank Blalock's name has already been mentioned in connection with the Halos, and Mark Saxon of ESPNLosAngeles speculates that Russell Branyan could be made available now that Seattle has Justin Smoak at first base.
Official quote: “Bill Bavasi hasn’t had an office here in a long time.”
They could probably trade some pocket lint for Adam LaRoche if they want a 1B. Not sure who else is out there, but I figure he’d be sold for cheap since they are struggling and have Brandon Allen waiting in the wings. He’s not great but he has some pop and is known to get hot in the second half.
Trout isn’t the type of talent that you trade. Not only is he fast, have a good glove, and can/will hit for power (set NJ record for HRs in HS for one season), he’s also a dedicated kid.
Wouldn’t it be funny if two of the greatest Angels of all time would be a Salmon and a Trout?
You’re just fishing for jokes.
Yes!
And yet, you took the bait.
A bunch of anti Angel crap if I ever read one. The Angels have a great minor league league system. One that possesses Conger, Bourjos, Trumbo Moore, Chatwood, Reckling, Jimenez, Corbin, Trout, Grichuk, Martinez-Mesa, Richards and Skaggs. Fan boy East Coasters will do anything they can to try a degrade their rival. The fact of the matter is, every name I just listed will be a major leaguer, say that about any other system. On top of which, the current regime produced through their “weak minor league system” Mike Napoli, Kendry Morales, Howie Kendrick, Erick Aybar, Chone Figgins, Alberto Callaspo, Ervin Santana, Joe Saunders…..
Yup Angels are so weak.
Oh and Jered Weaver and Kevin Jepsen. Just so weak.
So pretty much what you’re saying is that all of those players are starting MLB caliber why worry about the future? They appear to have a future lineup and rotation right there.
Dude, relax. The Angels don’t have a ton of talent close to the majors that they don’t NEED in the majors. It’s not a knock on their system, just saying where they are in terms of trade chips. Their best talent, for the most part, is either established in the majors or not terribly close. True statement. Doesn’t make it a bad system.
This is anti West Coast BS. Weak system, thin system, doesn’t have the prospects to pull off major trade, don’t have the depth. Come on, read between the lines! This guy is spewing East Coast garbage propoganda even without mentioning the usual Red Sox or Yankees.
He’s wrong on all accounts. If we don’t have the talent in AAA, then what the H do you call Hank Conger (Future’s game MVP and defensive stud switch hitting catcher), Peter Bourjos, Mark Trumbo, Rich Thompson and Mike Kohn? Look at their numbers this season!
That doesn’t even mention the fact that the Angels have the most talent of any team in baseball in their low minors or their history for producing major league talent.
This guy is an Angel hater. All he does is disguise subtly.
Rich Thompson is a 26 year old middle reliever. Michael Kohn is another middle relief prospect. Mark Trumbo is a 24 year old 1b with a career 321 OBP in the minors and his best power output before this season was as a 22 year old in a hitters park in High A. I don’t think teams are going to be lining up to acquire any of those 3.
Rich Thompson has posted unheard of numbers in AAA this year and has closer stuff, I’m pretty sure teams would like his services. Mike Kohn has been the most dominant reliever in all of minor league baseball since being drafted and once again, has closer stuff. Mark Trumbo is a AAA all-star and is on pace for 30+ HR and is still just 24.
Sure no one wants those guys. I guarantee you if they were released or made available via rule 5 draft, your precious Red Sox would be all over that ish. But sure, no one wants them.
You East coast garbage Red Sox fans try to pass Lars Anderson off as a real prospect, the guy has half the power Mark Trumbo has and is spoting an OBP of .339 this year. While that’s still better than Trumbo’s, Mark is clearly the better offensive threat. So go ahead, call Mark Trumbo nothing, but then again, so is you home boy Lars.
Jay Gibbons and Hector Luna were also AAA alstars this year, so Mark Trumbo is in good company. A first baseman with a .332 OBP whose only flashes of power came as a 22 year old in High A and as a 24 year old in the hitter friendly PCL (and hitter friendly Salt Lake) is not someone teams are going to be knocking the door down to get. I do appreciate your hyperbole on Kohn as the “most dominant reliever in all of minor league baseball since being drafted” though. I am not sure what you used to determine that.
Your statement on the rule 5 or free agent market is probably true, as guys get picked up all the time, but that wasn’t the point of your original post. You were insuinating the 3 above as top talents that would be bona fide trade chips that would tip the balance in the trade. There is a big difference between taking Rich Thompson off waivers and taking him as the 3rd prospect in a trade for Dan Haren.
I don’t remember saying anything about Lars Anderson. Although by most accounts his issues are mental and have nothing to do with his abillity. Hopefully he figures it out, but at least he has 2 years to catch up to Triple A all star Mark Trumbo.
Halos heaven, who to my knowledge has no East Coast Bias, ranked Trumbo the Angels #24 prospect and Kohn #14.
Those rankings were at the beginning of the season. Kohn will surely jump up in the top 10 if not the top 5. I agree with you on Trumbo. No future with the Angels.
No, seriously, you’re overreacting. And besides, their Triple-A home park is ridiculously hitter friendly, so looking at the stats on those hitters isn’t totally fair (remember some of the performances Kendrick and Wood put up there). And calling Conger a defensive stud behind the plate is simply contrary to everyone who’s seen him. The Angels have a good system that could be fantastic in a year, but chill.
Conger has ZERO pass balls and anyone that’s seen him in AAA this year knows he has a rocket for an arm and is a superior athlete.
Everyone does think he has a good arm. There are also still real questions about the ability to stay behind the plate long term. I listen to Law, Goldstein, Sickels, and Callis before I listen to you.
And above, you leap to the defense of Kohn, Thompson, and Trumbo. Well, Trumbo has a very checkered track record and is only putting up a .327 OBP in the hitters paradise of Salt Lake. Kohn and Thompson are nice relief prospects (I love Kohn, especially), but when you’re talking about trading for an elite player, those guys aren’t the sort you can build a package around. The kind of guys who can be the top player in a Fielder type acquisition either need another year or two to possibly develop into that, or have been deemed untouchable (Trout, Weaver).
I would not call Conger a defensive wiz by any stretch. He’s got a grand total of 247 games behind the plate over his entire minor league career. I think he has a chance to be an above average catcher but he could very well turn out to be slightly below average as well.
Kohn is nice and would make a solid arm to bring up or trade. However, he isn’t crazy good. Same goes for Thompson. Both could be useful pieces but not nearly enough as a centerpiece for a Fielder trade. I’d ship one of them off for Dunn but that’s it.
No way Weaver or Trout go in a deal for Fielder. 1.25 years of Fielder at $22m is already a steep price to pay. The difference in value between what you are getting in performance from Fielder vs what you are paying isn’t huge. Certainly not big enough to just throw in a 5 WAR pitcher like Weaver or a consensus top 5 minor league player. That ship sailed for Fielder about 2 years ago.
I’m glad Angels fans have one reasonable representative here.
I’m glad Angels fans have one reasonable representative here.
I would not call Conger a defensive wiz by any stretch. He’s got a grand total of 247 games behind the plate over his entire minor league career. I think he has a chance to be an above average catcher but he could very well turn out to be slightly below average as well.
Kohn is nice and would make a solid arm to bring up or trade. However, he isn’t crazy good. Same goes for Thompson. Both could be useful pieces but not nearly enough as a centerpiece for a Fielder trade. I’d ship one of them off for Dunn but that’s it.
No way Weaver or Trout go in a deal for Fielder. 1.25 years of Fielder at $22m is already a steep price to pay. The difference in value between what you are getting in performance from Fielder vs what you are paying isn’t huge. Certainly not big enough to just throw in a 5 WAR pitcher like Weaver or a consensus top 5 minor league player. That ship sailed for Fielder about 2 years ago.
No, seriously, you’re overreacting. And besides, their Triple-A home park is ridiculously hitter friendly, so looking at the stats on those hitters isn’t totally fair (remember some of the performances Kendrick and Wood put up there). And calling Conger a defensive stud behind the plate is simply contrary to everyone who’s seen him. The Angels have a good system that could be fantastic in a year, but chill.
Dude, relax. The Angels don’t have a ton of talent close to the majors that they don’t NEED in the majors. It’s not a knock on their system, just saying where they are in terms of trade chips. Their best talent, for the most part, is either established in the majors or not terribly close. True statement. Doesn’t make it a bad system.
Chone Figgins was drafted by the Rockies and spent 4 seasons in their system. Erick Aybar has a career OPS+ of 86. Joe Saunders has had 1 good season, and 4 average to slightly below average seasons. Kendry Morales was signed as 22 year old Cuban defector, so I wouldn’t quantify him as someone that received much development in the Angels farm system. That list wasn’t the best argument that the Angels have a top notch farm system.
Chone Figgins never materialized into anything until he reached the Angels. The Angels were responsible for his success after AA, Rockies did nothing for him besides trade him. Joe Saunders is a 4th or 5th starter and has shut down Boston when needed, I don’t see anyone complaining. Kendry Morales was developed ever since advanced A ball, he’s as much a product of the Angels system as David Price a Rays product. Erick Aybar is one of the top defensive SS in baseball and hit .311 last year and is on pace to swipe 25-30 bags this year, what’s wrong with that?
The Angels produce as many successful major league players as any team in baseball.
There is nothing wrong with 5th starters and weak hitting defensive Shortstops per se, but your complaint is that people are underrating the Angels farm system but ranking them at 20th this year. A 20th ranked farm system would put out mostly bottom of the order hitters and 5th starter types, with the occasional star. So if anything you are confirming what BA is saying. Your argument itself is silly because you are bringing up guys who have been in the league 4+ years in response to a ranking about this years farm system. I was just pointing out if you are trying to contend that the Angels have a top farm system, you shouldn’t be bringing up league average to below average guys that were called up 4 years ago as your defense.
As for Chone Figgins, being in his age 24 and 25 year season in AAA in a hitters park probably had as much to do with his success than anything the Angels may have taught him in 180 minor league games. According to the numbers his approach was the same throughout his minor league career, he just had a few more hits fall in and a few more go over the fence than with Colorado.
Joe Saunders also has a 4.17 ERA and 1.61 WHIP against the Sox in his career, not exactly “shutting them down”.
I also don’t understand why people keep dogging the depth in the Angels system; they had 5 of the first 40 picks in the 2010 draft, and 5 of the first 110 picks in 2009. I think they’ve replenished the system to a degree that they’re not being given credit for.
They aren’t being credited because all of their real stars are still in the lower levels. Those rankings take into account how soon the quality of the competition for their prospects so while the Angels actual do have a decent farm system, it will be a few years before you really see the effects of it.
They aren’t being credited because all of their real stars are still in the lower levels. Those rankings take into account how soon the quality of the competition for their prospects so while the Angels actual do have a decent farm system, it will be a few years before you really see the effects of it.
I also don’t understand why people keep dogging the depth in the Angels system; they had 5 of the first 40 picks in the 2010 draft, and 5 of the first 110 picks in 2009. I think they’ve replenished the system to a degree that they’re not being given credit for.
The Scioscia era Angels very rarely trade away blue-chip prospects (Sean Rodriguez and Alberto Callaspo notwithstanding). Trout will be swimming in the outfield with a halo above his head within two years.
The Angels have loads of talent in the farm system. I am hoping the Angels will make a move soon to trade for Dan Haren and Andy LaRoche. Look to include prospects such as Conger, Wood, Bell, and Reckling to the DBacks to pull this off. Picking up Hank FA Hank Blaylock would also be a good option to finish out the season at 3B. Blaylock can platoon with Izturis. The Angels would upgrade from a good to a great starting rotation and be able to win and advance in the playoffs this year. The starting lineup could be:
1-Aybar
2-Kendrick
3-Abreu
4-Hunter
5-Matsui
6-Rivera
7-LaRoche
8-Napoli/Mathis
9-Izturis/Blaylock
I’m not sure the D’backs would have much interest in Cogner since Miguel Montero is there for the foreseeable. Also, while Trout might be “untouchable” there is a very real possibility that the Angels can’t get Haren without him.
I’m not sure the D’backs would have much interest in Cogner since Miguel Montero is there for the foreseeable. Also, while Trout might be “untouchable” there is a very real possibility that the Angels can’t get Haren without him.
This just in: The Braves are unlikely to trade Jason Heyward; The Nationals aren’t trading Strasburg; the Rays aren’t trading Jennings or Hellickson. But really, Trout isn’t on that level yet but it is extremely rare for an organization to trade their top prospect with such a high ceiling.
If the Angels traded Trout, I would no longer be a fan. That would be the dumbest decision a front office could make. We haven’t had a highly praised prospect since…never.
If the Angels traded Trout, I would no longer be a fan. That would be the dumbest decision a front office could make. We haven’t had a highly praised prospect since…never.
Did you just start following the Angels this year?
Brandon Wood was rated as THE TOP minor league talent (by several publications) coming off his huge 40+ HR 2005 season. Baseball America rated him as #3, 8, and 16 between the years 2005 and 2007. Dallas McPherson was rated at #12 in 2004. Adenhart was a top 25 guy in 2007. Kendrick was #12 in 2005. Aybar was a top 50 guy for 2004 and 2005. The list goes on and on.
Trout definitely is the best talent we have had in our system in a long time. If Brown gets called up (which should happen when Werth/Ibanez gets traded) Trout becomes the consensus #1 player in the minors. That’s huge for an 18 YO.
Look its not stupid to trade Trout it just depends on what you get for him. Trout and 2-3 other prospects for Josh Johnson would suit me just fine. Picking up Blalock is a joke and LaRoche is a joke. Send Nap and 3 prospects to the Brewers for Fielder then in the offseason try and sign him to an extension if he is willing to become the everyday DH. If he doesnt want to DH trade him next trade deadline and get prospects back you wouldnt lose much. If you dont want to do that go get Cantu hed be better than Blalock and LaRoche atleast
Trade 4 players for a few months of Fielder? That is stupid. He won’t re-sign in Anaheim. He will go whoever writes the stupidest biggest check they can.
I’m not a fan of moving Napoli but the deal does make sense in some ways (though I doubt the Brewers will make the move with Naps being the centerpiece).
You get Fielder for the next 2.5 months. Then you then get him for next year (where he can DH). Next year if the team does well you hold on to him and offer arb. He’ll decline and you collect your 2 top picks for him. If the team sucks in 2011 you trade Fielder and restock your minor league system.
This all comes down to what the team will do behind the plate. If Naps could get regular reps at catcher (say 60% of the time) then he should stay. If he won’t get those reps then the team should move him.
I’m not a fan of moving Napoli but the deal does make sense in some ways (though I doubt the Brewers will make the move with Naps being the centerpiece).
You get Fielder for the next 2.5 months. Then you then get him for next year (where he can DH). Next year if the team does well you hold on to him and offer arb. He’ll decline and you collect your 2 top picks for him. If the team sucks in 2011 you trade Fielder and restock your minor league system.
This all comes down to what the team will do behind the plate. If Naps could get regular reps at catcher (say 60% of the time) then he should stay. If he won’t get those reps then the team should move him.
Fielder is arb eligible next season so you’re trading for the rest of this season and all of next year.
It would be stupid for 4 months…but you have him for a year and 4 months where if he doesnt want an extension you can trade him next deadline and get back some prospects you originally lost
Trade 4 players for a few months of Fielder? That is stupid. He won’t re-sign in Anaheim. He will go whoever writes the stupidest biggest check they can.
Trout is one of the top five prospects in the minors now. You wouldn’t have traded Heyward or Justin Upton the year after they were drafted, basically no matter what you could get in return. You can’t trade Trout, especially for anything that’s available now.
+1. Nothing against Trout, but he’s in A-ball; the odds that he’ll ever be average-or-better in the majors are no better than 50-50. If the Angels think they can catch the Rangers this season, they have to trade him.
Actually they’re a lot better than 50 50 for the Trout kid. A young 18 year old, probably could have started school a year later and he’d be a high school senior right now. Regardless, a kid that young that dominates A ball, is the most impressive player in the futures game, with that kind of work ethic, and still has room to grow. Talent wise he’s the best prospect in baseball and his chances of making it to the major leagues are much better than 50/50.
There’s can’t miss, then there’s the level where Mike Trout, Steven Strasurg, Jason Heyward, Hellickson, Desmond Jennings, Carlos Santana are.
Actually they’re a lot better than 50 50 for the Trout kid. A young 18 year old, probably could have started school a year later and he’d be a high school senior right now. Regardless, a kid that young that dominates A ball, is the most impressive player in the futures game, with that kind of work ethic, and still has room to grow. Talent wise he’s the best prospect in baseball and his chances of making it to the major leagues are much better than 50/50.
There’s can’t miss, then there’s the level where Mike Trout, Steven Strasurg, Jason Heyward, Hellickson, Desmond Jennings, Carlos Santana are.
The last two high school hitters to be this touted one year after being drafted were Jason Heyward and Justin Upton. You can’t trade a prospect this good. Period.
And who were the last two before that? Delmon Young and Cameron Maybin.
I’ll agree that it’s (arguably) too early to write off those two, and I’ll agree that 50/50 was a bit too dismissive, but top prospects wipe out a lot more often than anyone seems to want to admit, IMO…
Maybin was in the same draft as Upton. He was mentioned in the same breath upside-wise, but never in terms of can’t miss or overall ranking. I never saw Maybin ranked in the top five prospects in all of baseball. Young is a fair one to mention. My point is that while prospects wash out pretty often (and so do veterans, by the way), really inner circle elite prospects (like top one or two in the minors) wash out less frequently.
Yeah – I would say the percentage is a little skewed.
Something like this is more likely IMO:
20% – total flop do to injuries or poor maturation
30% – he goes on to be a league average player or below
30% – he becomes a solid starter for many years (think Mike Cameron)
20% – he becomes a super star (Upton, Sizemore, Beltran)
The one thing he has in his favor is his 80 speed and solid glove work in CF. Even if his hitting never develops he could easily be a top defensive CF’er with ++ speed. Those skills shouldn’t change much (unless there is an injury) and would make him a solid ML player.
Meh, Sizemore’s injuries have really derailed him. Wouldn’t really consider him a superstar right now.
Meh, Sizemore’s injuries have really derailed him. Wouldn’t really consider him a superstar right now.
+1. Nothing against Trout, but he’s in A-ball; the odds that he’ll ever be average-or-better in the majors are no better than 50-50. If the Angels think they can catch the Rangers this season, they have to trade him.
As an Angels fan here is my take on the current state of the farm system.
Upper minors contains many “organizational” types with no guys that stand out as being top shelf talent. I think Bourjos could be a solid ML outfielder today. Outstanding defense, good speed, decent stick. He won’t be an All-Star CF’er but he could start for plenty of teams right now. Trumbo is another guy that might be able to start for lower tier teams today – but doesn’t project to be anything more than a LA 1st baseman. An 850 OPS in Salt Lake isn’t tearing it up … but it isn’t terrible either. Conger is really the only high minors guy that you can project with any degree of certainty as being an above average ML player.
The true strength of the farm system is in A ball right now. Between Trout (recently promoted), Skaggs, Jimenez, Correa, Arenas, Skaggs, Richards, Martinez-Mesa, Hellwig, and Grichuk there is a strong core of sub 22 YO guys who all expect to move through the system quickly. That doesn’t include the 5 that were just drafted in the first 2 rounds this year.
Ranking the Angels minor league farm system that low is reasonable – heading into 2010. With upper minors stocked with low upside talent and all the high upside talent still several years away it makes sense. However, I fully expect the rankings to jump after the year is over. I bet the Angels land somewhere in the mid teens. If Walden and Reckling can get healthy and pitch to their capabilities the rankings could move up to the 10-12 spot.
As for this notion that Trout would be used in a trade for Fielder or Dunn or LaRoche (really?) …
No prospect should be off limits. I think Trout has the potential to be Grady Sizemore/Carl Crawford like. The idea of him taking over CF when Hunter’s contract expires is getting me excited already. However, if the right offer comes along you have to be willing to move pieces.
The Angels in 2010 are a good, but unspectacular team. They could win the AL West with or without an infusion of offense (obviously the odds are better if a new stick is brought in). However, there is a good chance that even with that new offense that the team still falls short of the playoffs this year. Going for broke, by trading top minor league talent, for a shot of the playoffs in 2010 is silly IMO. Complicating the picture even more is the fact that we have an MVP caliber 1st baseman that will be available in 2011 and the fact that I would never pay a DH more than $12m/year.
With that out of the way, a move for 1st base makes sense only if (1) the player is signed through 2010 only or (2) the player can move to the DH role in 2011 with a reasonable contract. For these reasons, Fielder just isn’t a great match. I would love to him this year but it would kill the franchise after this year. Dunn makes much more sense as he could DH next year (even though that isn’t his preference). LaRoche makes some sense if the Angels are only paying for his salary.
If the Angels are forced to give up any significant pieces for Dunn or LaRoche then I say forget it. Let Napoli get the bulk of the reps at 1B. Mathis and Wilson can continue to kill us offensively at catcher. We take our chances on either our guys playing up to their capabilities or Texas cooling off (no way Vlad and Hamilton will keep this up). If we don’t make the playoffs in 2010 so be it. At least we didn’t compromise our prospects for success in 2011 and beyond.
REALLY???? UNLIKELY TO BE TRADED???? THANKS FOR THE ANALYSIS!
Martinez-Mesa is going to be an ace too. I think it has been hashed to death. The Angels have a great low minor leauge and an average upper one. THey have always generated what they needed internally and should continue to do so. End of story. Burjos for Strasburg!
Martinez-Mesa may be the best pitcher in the system. He just needs to get better control. Right now his walk rates are flat out awful.
Martinez-Mesa may be the best pitcher in the system. He just needs to get better control. Right now his walk rates are flat out awful.
Id trade Trout, Reckling, Walden and Wilson for Josh Johnson. Id trade Napoli, Trumbo, o Sullivan and a player to be named for Fielder. Then Id trade Wood and Bell for Cantu. Ok I can take the GM job from Reagins now =)
Id trade Trout, Reckling, Walden and Wilson for Josh Johnson. Id trade Napoli, Trumbo, o Sullivan and a player to be named for Fielder. Then Id trade Wood and Bell for Cantu. Ok I can take the GM job from Reagins now =)
Why do people think it wouldnt make sense to get Fielder? You dont only get him for the rest of this year you get him for next year as well and if he doesnt want to sign a contract extension to be a DH for us then fine trade him for more prospects at the trade deadline next year. You wouldnt really lose anything. You trade prospects now for a half season of Fielder this year and a half season of Fielder next year then you get prospects back by trading him next trading deadline. so you get Fielder for about a year of play and when you trade him again your farm system is right where it was before you got him this year
Why do people think it wouldnt make sense to get Fielder? You dont only get him for the rest of this year you get him for next year as well and if he doesnt want to sign a contract extension to be a DH for us then fine trade him for more prospects at the trade deadline next year. You wouldnt really lose anything. You trade prospects now for a half season of Fielder this year and a half season of Fielder next year then you get prospects back by trading him next trading deadline. so you get Fielder for about a year of play and when you trade him again your farm system is right where it was before you got him this year