FRIDAY, 1:03am: Theo Epstein has discussed multiple possible trades with former Red Sox assistant GM and current Padres GM Jed Hoyer, according to Peter Abraham and Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe. The Globe duo believes Boston could have interest in a reliever like Joe Thatcher, and, given the team's excess of outfielders when Jacoby Ellsbury returns, they may match up with San Diego.
THURSDAY, 12:59pm: Though they're on his no-trade list, the Red Sox asked the Brewers about Trevor Hoffman, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Rosenthal adds that the Brewers are not inclined to move Hoffman. Meanwhile they're getting calls on Carlos Villanueva and Todd Coffey.
12:05pm: The Red Sox are leaving no rock unturned in their search for relief help. They've explored Rafael Perez, Will Ohman, Mike Gonzalez, Matt Capps, Michael Wuertz, Craig Breslow, Sean Marshall, Kerry Wood, David Aardsma, and Kyle Farnsworth, reports Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe. Cafardo says Scott Downs looks unlikely unless the Blue Jays back down from their top prospect requests. On a related note, SI's Jon Heyman tweets that the Jays asked the Mets for outfield prospect Kirk Nieuwenhuis and one other player for Downs and were denied.
Marshall is the interesting name here. The 27-year-old lefty has had a dominant year in relief, posting a 1.71 ERA, 10.4 K/9, and 2.9 BB/9 in 52.6 innings with one home run allowed. He's been especially strong against lefties. Marshall is under team control through 2012 and would presumably be very difficult to pry loose from the Cubs. Gonzalez is another surprising name, since he's spent most of the season on the shelf with a shoulder injury and is still owed good money.
Cafardo adds that the Red Sox have been shopping reliever Ramon Ramirez, and offers the opinion that a National League team might want to take a look at him. Ramirez has a 4.57 ERA, 6.5 K/9, and 3.3 BB/9 in 41.3 innings with six home runs allowed and is a potential non-tender candidate after the season.
For the love of all that is holy, please no Will Ohman.
Wow they just really want a former Cubs reliever don’t they….Ohman, Wuertz, Marshall, Wood, Aardsma, Farnsworth…..6 of the 10 play/used to play on the North Side
Don’t forget Downs, who debuted as a Cub.
Wow I didn’t realize that, thanks for the correction
It’s not their fault the Cubs go through relievers like an ape goes through bananas. However, I don’t think it matters. 5 1/2 back of the WC with 60 to go . . . basically, we have stay at least where we are and then sweep the 6 remaining games we have against TB. Yeah, I hope I’m wrong, but I’d sell if I were Theo.
marshall isnt going anywhere
I agree and as a Cubs fan I’m happy for that, he’s been one of the few stable arms in the bullpen this year
Almost willing to just give the Indians a piece of rubbish for Wood, pay him the remaining 3-3.5M he is owed and turn away every time he goes to the mound. Just look at the bright side.. whatever talent would cost, it ain’t going to be what gave up to Texas for Gagne and hope that Epstein is thinking about that while Toronto is trying to get him to over pay like mad for that 34YO middle reliever his team has and probably Pittsburgh as well for Dotel as well.
Might as well add Joe Beimel to the list, since it was reported they had interest.
Nieuwenhuis wouldn’t be an excessive price for Scott Downs if the Mets were Scott Downs away from going somewhere, but they’re not.
Yeah – obviously it depends who the second player is, but Nieuwenhuis is no great shakes. Would definitely be worth trading for a great reliever and the two picks. Plus, for the Jays, he would join Hechavarria and Rzepczynski on the most difficult-to-spell team ever.
Amazingly great point. Don’t forget they just drafted Syndergaard and Wojciechowski.
you serious?
That’d be highway robbery on the Jays part.
No it wouldn’t. Nieuwenhuis is playing well, but a lot of people don’t think he’s a centerfielder in the end, and his bat won’t play that great in a corner. Besides, Downs is going to yield two draft picks, in addition to being one of the very elite middle relievers in baseball down the stretch.
They can have Fernando Rodney and Brian Fuentes if they want! Angels don’t need or want them anymore.
While Rodney isn’t very appealing, Fuentes is striking out over 10 per 9 and is death on lefties this year. Your pen isn’t good if he is the closer, but he is a pretty 3rd or 4th option
In addition to Ramon Ramirez, I am sure some NL club would LOVE to get Manny Delcarmen.
Aardsma’s performance is inflated based on Safeco.
Good job Mets Captain Kirk is going to be an awesome player
Very disappointed with the names and efforts so far. Will Ohman is TERRIBLE. I’ve never seen a ML pitcher with pitches that are so flat and hittable. Only 3 guys on the list are even worth considering: Breslow, Marshall and Farnsworth. The latter is a headcase who I’d be reluctant to bring in. Marshall, as noted, would be impossible to pry from the Cubs. Capps is a bona fide closer, which is not what we need. Aardsma is marginal, even with the benefit of cavernous Safeco. Wuertz, too, is marginal. Wood is expensive, old and mostly used up. Gonzalez is a pipe-dream because Angelos will never trade within the AL East. Downs is legit, but the price is just way too much to even consider. No one should even think about asking for a top prospect for a set-up reliever, even if he’s a type-A who can be offered arbitration.
Names that are not being explored, that SHOULD be, are: Frank Herrman (CLE); Evan Meek (PIT), Drew Storen (WAS) and Chris Seddon (SEA). Only Storen would be very hard to pry away. Meek would command a high price in return. But any of the 4 of these could solidify the BoSox pen for several years to come.
There’s zero chance on Storen.
I wouldn’t agree with “zero,” but yeah, he’d be very tough to pry away. The Nats might go for it if we enticed them with Lars Anderson (who is a legit prospect to potentially replace Dunn somewhere down the road) and Felix Doubrount. That would free them up to trade Dunn, avoid giving him big money, and probably get a quality young pitcher in return. Odds are maybe only 20% that Rizzo would buy into this, but its worth a shot.
Really? Storen must be one hell of a reliever to command those two. Doubrount would already be in the rotation on 3/4 of the teams in baseball and Lars is starting to hit AAA pitching and will probably be major league ready by late next year. Theo would NEVER make that deal.
Storen is young, cheap, under team control and dominant. His stats are: 2-2 in 28 gms, 29.2 innings, 7.89 k/9, 4.25 bb/9, 2.73 ERA, 152 ERA+, .294 BABIP and 1.281 WHIP. He has not given up a home run yet. If he can improve his control a little, he would be truly phenominal as a set-up guy. You’d have to give up a fair amount of quality youth to get Rizzo to move him. Like Bard is to us, this kid is their heir apparent to the closer’s job some day. I’d have no reservations about moving Lars at this point in time. He has value because he has begun to hit. I’d have some reservations about moving Doubrount, but still, he’s a prospect; not a solidly proven commodity. He’s been good in Pawtucket and decent in 2 ML starts. You’ve gotta fairly evaluate our talent, and give talent (or money, or both) to get talent. Rizzo is like Theo. To make him move someone of Bard-esque capability, you’re gonna need to make his eyes pop out some. Right now, the bull pen is much more important to us than a projected middle of the rotation lefty starter and someone who may become a 1B/DH power hitter. I would give these up now because I perceive drastically improving the bullpen is a matter of survival.
And in Doubrount’s case 1-4 of the rotation is set through 2014 (and Dice-K through ’12) so unless something happens to one of those guys, or someone gets moved, he’s really no use to the Red Sox and he would either become a middle reliever himself, or sit in the minors being wasted.
I agree that Doubrount will probably be traded and is fairly expendable, but he’s probably the best chip the Sox have that Theo would actually be willing to trade (i.e., not Kelley or Iglasias). I want more back than just part of a middle innings reliever. He should be put toward a power bat or a catcher. Otherwise we have nothing left to deal.
Definitely true, I was speaking more in general terms of Doubront being traded. I actually wouldn’t be at all surprised to hear that the Red Sox couldn’t come up with any trade that made sense, and that and that Delcarmen and/or Ramirez are being moved and Bowden and/or Doubront are the relievers we are going to add to help the bullpen, and I think Doubront probably goes in the off season as part of a larger deal.
Definitely true, I was speaking more in general terms of Doubront being traded. I actually wouldn’t be at all surprised to hear that the Red Sox couldn’t come up with any trade that made sense, and that and that Delcarmen and/or Ramirez are being moved and Bowden and/or Doubront are the relievers we are going to add to help the bullpen, and I think Doubront probably goes in the off season as part of a larger deal.
Herrman? Hes pitched 21 innings in his career and an average K rate (6 K/9 in minors and 5.6 K/9 in majors). Don’t think Sox would take him for the stretch run. And Seddon is a career minor leaguer with worse ratios and less major league experience. Sox need established relievers who they can count on.
Fervently disagree on Seddon. He’s a few years in at the minor level, but has wickedly come into superlative status. Some trees grow faster than others, but in the end, those who survive & mature, all provide the shade you crave.
Yes, Herrman is wet behind the ears. He’s also DOMINANT. Storen has 29 innings under his belt and is regarded as one of the finest set-up men in the NL. I don’t think 8 innings means too much. I’d put Herrman in that class.
marshall
I’ve been saying this all summer that Marshall is the best option. If we can’t get him then the sox should sell.
Or, y’know, see how Bowden and Wakefield work out for a few weeks and convert Doubront.
The Sox are only five out of the Wild Card with about 61 games left to play and still operating well below capacity with Pedroia and Ellsbury still on the DL. The starting pitching’s looking the best it has all season, the offense is one of the best in the MLB. The only legitimate sore spot is the bullpen and their odds of succesfully converting a AAA guy (Especially if they can hang within five games when rosters expand) are just as good as bringing in another guy and having him work out.
I’m on board completely with this. They sent Bowden down due to a roster crunch, same would apply to Doubront. If you can trade Delcarmen and / or Ramirez for anything of value (present or future) you roll the dice.
If both Bowden and Doubront fail to impress, there is always the waiver period in August where you can test guys out and see who sticks. Relievers are volatile.
Completely agree with just having Doubront (who has already stated he will relieve if asked), Bowden, Cuello, etc. in the pen. Someone will stick from that bunch.
Completely agree with just having Doubront (who has already stated he will relieve if asked), Bowden, Cuello, etc. in the pen. Someone will stick from that bunch.
The trouble is, the Sox will never “sell”. The FO would not move Beltre, Vmart and others, even if they believe they cannot catch the Rays.
In addition to draft picks being more highly valued than years ago, the Red Sox have already taken a huge hit in TV ratings and do not want to risk messing with success (like the “sellout streak”).
As much as some would want it to happen, it won’t.
It’s going to go down to the wire like it always does and the Red Sox will more than likely come out of this with another semi-decent middle reliever.
I think it’s the best thing to do. Beltre could bring in some legit prospects. It’s better than taking unknown draft picks. This really isn our season. Besides if we trade beltre, dice-k, vmart possible we could stock up the farm, so this offseason we could get a big bat. I think beltre is our most valuable trade chip. We need vmart.
Well it is a 2 month rental of Beltre so it would not return THAT much. It’s also widely known that Beltre is going to look for max years in his next contract (and his success this year will drive up the price). The same applies to V-Mart for the most part as well.
Dice-K has NTC and he’s the key to selling the “Red Sox” brand over in Japan.
Even if the Sox were 10 behind the Rays they would be hard-pressed to completely “blow it up”.
You could probably get one top 50 prospect and a lower level guy.
Even if that were true, why not roll the dice and try to contend this year? The draft picks for Beltre would be of similar value. If there was a huge difference I’d agree with you, but the Red Sox clearly are still in contention and if they could get into the postseason they’d be one of the favorites to win it all.
Dude the rays and Yankees are just to good. Our bullpen is a mess and pedroia is still out for a few weeks. I say trade beltre.besides if we did trade beltre for twins ramos then that would solve our catching citauation. I would rather know what kinda of prosPect I was getting instead of draft picks. Remember we have ortiz, vmarts’s draft picks coming. ( that’s if we don’t resign them)
We’ll be lucky to get a supplemental rounder for Ortiz, much less multiple picks. He’s at the arse end of Type B status.
That said, people said the exact same thing about the Rays and Yankees being too good to catch back in May. The Sox caught up to them once and five games out with sixty games left is way too early to blow it all up. A lot can happen in sixty days and the Yankees are suddenly starting to get a bit of the injury bug and the Rays may have lights out pitching, but their offense is still inconsistent. With Werth off the market and little left for viable trade partners, the Rays look to be standing pat.
While I won’t say the Sox are definitely getting into the playoffs, they’re too close to blow it all up right now.
Even if that were true, why not roll the dice and try to contend this year? The draft picks for Beltre would be of similar value. If there was a huge difference I’d agree with you, but the Red Sox clearly are still in contention and if they could get into the postseason they’d be one of the favorites to win it all.
Serious question….If the Sox trade Beltre then who plays third base next year for them?
Lowrie and Youkilis are the only other options in the Sox entire system that could step in and play there. I doubt the Sox want to have to rely on Lowrie and I also doubt they want to move Youkilis there for an entire season.
The only other option would be to trade him now and sign him in the off-season, which would mean the return would have to be even higher because they would also be giving up their first round pick. In the end, I just see them keeping him and making a run at the wild-card.
Okay trade beltre now and get the prospects. Then we put mike Lowell at third. Then next year we trade for a big bat and slot youkilis at third. Or another option would be to trade for mike aviles for this year. He’s batting close, if not .300 this year.
I just don’t get the point of trading one of the games best 3B and displacing one of the games best 1B unless you are getting prime talent back, which I seriously doubt the Red Sox can get for him right now…
Are u kidding?!? Beltre is one of the top 3b in the al. He’s batting .332, 17 hrs,65 RBI, 125h in 377 AB’s. They could get a Wilson ramos, or a top 100 prospect or 2 for him. Besides what r we gunna do with mike Lowell? For gods sake he has what 4 or 5 hrs in Idk how many games.
I think thats very presumptuous that they could get one top 100 prospect, much less two. There simply isn’t a market for him right now.
I think thats very presumptuous that they could get one top 100 prospect, much less two. There simply isn’t a market for him right now.
no way the cubs can give up marshall, the only time he struggles is when they try to start him.
is it me or do they sound desperate?
Theo is determined to find a “diamond in the rough” and to not overpay.. its his MO.
Then he should be looking closer at Nate Robertson.
How is considering their options desperate? Isn’t it just… smart? Thorough? A sign that the team isn’t run by Ed Wade or Jerry DiPoto?
Well considering the Red Sox are operating at about 170 million this year, its a bit unsettling that if they think they could make a run at the WC that they would settle for some of the names listed in the article. If they are looking for something to put them over the top, you don’t get cheap at that point, regardless of where they are from a luxury tax perspective IMO.
Now, I do not think someone like Scott Downs should command a high-level, legit prospect either.
When Theo acquired Gagne from the Rangers he had the exact same numbers as Papelbon that season. The Sox traded a legit prospect and, as we know, got hosed.
The point is that no matter how well a relief pitcher is doing, it doesn’t have any predictive value on how they will do the remainder of the year. Simply put, there is no reason to trade significant prospects for relievers that you can’t trust anyway…
What about Heilman?
Would the twins trade ramos and Miguel sano for beltre? What if we paid for beltre’s whole contract?
I’ll be honest with you, from a Sox fan perspective, I’d probably pull the trigger on Beltre for Ramos straight up. Screw this year if we could get a legitimate full time catcher.
That said, the Twins could probably get something better than Beltre if they held onto Ramos into the offseason.
I’d be fine with a Victor/Ramos platoon to ease him in and a Lowell/Victor 1B when he’s behind the dish. Youk of course will take 3rd.
But agreed. Ramos for Beltre would be a done deal in my book.
I’d be fine with a Victor/Ramos platoon to ease him in and a Lowell/Victor 1B when he’s behind the dish. Youk of course will take 3rd.
But agreed. Ramos for Beltre would be a done deal in my book.
I’ll be honest with you, from a Sox fan perspective, I’d probably pull the trigger on Beltre for Ramos straight up. Screw this year if we could get a legitimate full time catcher.
That said, the Twins could probably get something better than Beltre if they held onto Ramos into the offseason.
There isn’t much money at all remaining on Beltre’s deal and I’d be very surprised if they could get Ramos for Beltre nevermind Ramos and Sano. It sounds like you are highly overestimating Beltre’s value for 2 months of play.
I think it’s less an overvaluing thing than a matchup thing. While I don’t think two for Beltre is remotely possible, I could see the Twins conceivably giving up Ramos for Beltre. It’s an extreme longshot, but they’ve been wanting a third baseman all season and Beltre’s the absolute best that could be even potentially available. He could potentially be the piece that locks up the division for the Twins and Ramos is blocked by Mauer. It’s a matchup that could work.
Again, that’s not to say I think it’s at all likely to happen. As I’ve said a few times, the Sox are still very much in the Wild Card race and the Twins could definitely get more value for Ramos in the offseason. If the Sox were another three or four back and looking up at more than one team with a questionable offense and a lot of very young pitchers who may end up facing pitch counts carrying their team, it could happen.
There isn’t much money at all remaining on Beltre’s deal and I’d be very surprised if they could get Ramos for Beltre nevermind Ramos and Sano. It sounds like you are highly overestimating Beltre’s value for 2 months of play.
The Twins traded Ramos to the Nationals for Capps, so if you want Ramos you have to talk to the Nationals
Fukudome, Marshall, & 6MM for Reddick, Ramirez, & filler.
Sold, American.
Red Sox can have Marshall…if they also take on all of Fukudome’s contract or some of Zambrano’s….
I would absolutely take that Marshall/Fukudome deal and throw in Jeremy Hermida and a large pizza for courtesy’s sake.
Agreed. Except on the pizza. That’s a deal breaker for me. The pizza has more value than Hermida at this point.
I’m hoping that the Jay’s asking price for Downs goes down once it gets close to the wire and that the Sox can swing something for him that doesn’t include Kelly or Iglesias. If it takes Ryan Kalish, so be it.
The price will come down. It would be foolish for anyone to trade a Kelly type prospect for a 34 year old reliever, albeit a very good one. Kalish + c-level prospect for Downs seems fair to me.
It’s a negotiating tactics to start high and wait for Sox to bring it lower and since they know Jays are asking a lot, they won’t be putting low balling offers but they’ll give a good player in a counter offer.
I think Kalish AND a c-level prospect for Downs??
no way.
way too much for a reliever that theyll have for two months. Kalish is a valuable player and has potential to be a MLB starting player. there’s no way they give 6 years of him to a division rival. Especially for a relief pitcher.
and don’t give me that “he’s a type a free agent” bs either..
“and don’t give me that “he’s a type a free agent” bs either.. ”
Like it or not, that’s a huge factor. It’s where most of Downs’ value lies actually. Why would the Jays trade him for a pile of garbage when they can get two high draft picks for him. On average, one of those picks will flop and the other will turn into a prospect in the Kelly/Iglesias/Kalish ballpark.
Exactly. Which is why an offer of Kalish + a C+/B- pithing prospect should be enough for the Jays to move Downs. And Downs may very well not be a rental for the BoSox. It’s not like they couldn’t use him for next year as well and at the very least it seems likely that they will offer him arbitration…
I’m hoping that the Jay’s asking price for Downs goes down once it gets close to the wire and that the Sox can swing something for him that doesn’t include Kelly or Iglesias. If it takes Ryan Kalish, so be it.
Joe Thatcher is an important piece of the Padres ‘pen. Lefties simply don’t hit him. Not worth it to send him as part of a deal for yet another middling outfielder.
I like the idea of trading McDonald or Hermida to San Diego for a reliever. Neither one has options left, so somebody would be lost when Ellsbury comes back, which is about two weeks away. Nava could fill in until Ellsbury returns.
Why would the Padres trade one of their better relievers, and only lefty in the pen to the Red Sox for an outfielder who would not be an upgrade over what they already have? It makes no sense, Herminda has wOBA of .274, which is worse then even Gywnn, McDonald has a wOBA of .322 which is better then only Gywnn of their regular outfielders and he doesn’t have Gywnn’s glove to make up for it.
Beats me. Ask Peter Abraham and Nick Cafardo. I’m just saying that, as a Sox fan, I like it.
Beats me. Ask Peter Abraham and Nick Cafardo. I’m just saying that, as a Sox fan, I like it.
They should trade Ellsbury- all his BS with Sox medical staff, extended rehab away from the team, get him gone and get an arm in return. Ellsbury is going to spend the majority of his career injured- his contract is his biggest selling point
as a yanks fan im begging the red sox to trade for hoffman
Judging from Hoffman’s performance since the All Star break, I would trade Ramirez or Okajima for him in a heartbeat. Especially since he’ll be at least a type B free agent.
Judging from Hoffman’s performance since the All Star break, I would trade Ramirez or Okajima for him in a heartbeat. Especially since he’ll be at least a type B free agent.
i’d trade thatcher to the sox for kalish and a low level prospect. seems fair to me
No way is that fair and no way it’ll happen. Theo loves Kalish. The only way Kalish goes to the Padres is if it’s in a package for A-Gon.
Reddick for Thatcher, now that’s more realistic.
you can keep Reddick, no way we trade Thatcher for at the very best a 4rth OF
i’d trade thatcher to the sox for kalish and a low level prospect. seems fair to me
we don’t trade thatcher to the sox period.
I like the idea of trading Beltre, I don’t get the sense that he’s coming back and while his bat has been excellent his glove is average at best. He had one big year in LA in a contract year before he basically robbed Mariners and now he’s having his 2nd good year, in a contract year, I don’t see him repeating this. Trade him, slot Lowell in at 3rd and make a run with a new bullpen. Lowrie and Ellsbury (malingerer) can go with him…if they trade those 3 they’re losing one everyday player a AAA SS and a stiff. They could gain some middle relief help that’s sorely needed. In fact- i say trade Ramon Ramierez, Manny Delcarmen and Okajima for a bag of balls and a bat bat rack- THAT’S how bad this pen is…