Cliff Lee is joining his fourth team in 12 months and the Rangers are hoping he can lead them to the playoffs for the first time in 11 years. The Rangers pried Lee away from the Mariners and multiple suitors today in a blockbuster deal that makes the 50-35 Rangers clear favorites to win the AL West.
They obtained Lee, Mark Lowe (who is out for the season with back surgery) and cash considerations from the Mariners for Justin Smoak, Blake Beavan, Matthew Lawson and Josh Lueke.
Though the Rangers' ownership is uncertain, GM Jon Daniels was able to add Lee and his $9MM salary with some creative deal-making. The Mariners will cover about $2.5MM of the $4.2MM remaining on Lee's salary, according to ESPN.com's Buster Olney (via Twitter), presumably because the Rangers included an appealing group of prospects. But giving up Lee wasn't easy, even for top young talent.
“This is a bittersweet day for us,” Mariners GM Jack Zduriencik said. “While we are excited about the group of young players we have acquired from the Rangers, it’s never easy to trade a player like Cliff Lee, who has been outstanding here.”
Justin Smoak has yet to stand out at the big league level, but has star potential. Baseball America ranked Smoak second among all Rangers prospects before the season, behind 2010 All-Star Neftali Feliz. The publication suggested Smoak, 23, has "a chance to be a switch-hitting slugger in the Mark Teixeira mold." So far, Smoak's big league performance has been less than Teixeira-esque. He has a .209/.316/.353 line with eight homers in half a season.
Beavan, 21, was the Rangers' first round pick in 2007 and is now pitching at AA. He has a 2.78 ERA with 5.6 K/9 and a Cliff Lee-like 1.0 BB/9. Baseball America ranked Beavan 17th among Rangers prospects before the season, explaining that he could become a back-of-the-rotation innings eater, even if his stuff doesn't improve.
Lawson, a 24-year-old second baseman is hitting .277/.371/.438 at AA, along with Lueke and Beavan. Lueke, 25, has a 3.86 ERA with 12.5 K/9 and 2.4 BB/9 as a reliever this year.
A lot of talent is heading to Seattle, but the Rangers will have the chance to reclaim some young players, even if Lee departs as a free agent after the season. Lee currently ranks as a Type A free agent, so the Rangers can obtain two top picks in the 2011 draft if they offer Lee arbitration and he turns it down to sign elsewhere.
Joel Sherman of the New York Post first reported that a deal was close and first reported that the Rangers had agreed to acquire Lee. Buster Olney, Jon Heyman, Ken Davidoff, Mark Feinsand, Bob Nightengale, Ken Rosenthal, Jon Paul Morosi, Ed Price, Evan Grant, T.R. Sullivan, Frankie Piliere and others added updates and details.
The Rangers outbid the many other clubs connected to Lee, including the Rays, Tigers, White Sox, Twins, Phillies, Mets, Cardinals, Dodgers and Reds. Oh yeah, and the Yankees.
So much for the Yankees’ unwillingness to hand over prospects for three month rentals. Brian Cashman & Co. offered Jesus Montero, David Adams and another prospect, possibly Zach McAllister, for Lee and were 'on the brink' of acquiring him earlier today. The Yankees thought they had a deal for the left-hander, according to Rosenthal (Twitter link), but it wasn't the case. The Mariners re-opened discussions with the Rangers, learned that Smoak was available, and the sides reached a deal.
For the deal that sent Lee to the Phillies click here; for the deal that sent Lee to the Mariners click here.
The Yanks must think Montero is going to be a bust.
No the Yankees just don’t care about prospects and how they can benefit the team with their play. Apparently the Yankees are fine with a lineup made almost fully of 30 somethings.
Or more based in reality they see a prospect with a stellar bat that may not be able to play catcher and might have to move to a spot they have locked up for another 7 years. They would be trading Montero for a guy whos a top 3 pitcher in all of baseball not for a utility infielder or reliever.
so you’re saying that Francisco Cervelli has a better upside than one of the top prospects in the game? Maybe but I doubt it.
Where are you getting that from? Im say that there are real questions about if he can play catcher and that he may have to move to 1st base. Thats the position that is taken for the next 7 years by mark Teixeira. I never mentioned Cervelli nor does he have anything to do with the discussion at hand. If anything this might show that they have alot of confidence in Austin Romine but Cervelli is in no way the future at catcher for the Yankees, and i never stated that position
So you’re saying that Montero has no future as a catcher? Defintely have heard that before but the fact remains that I’m just not sure as to why the Yankees would want to give up a young hot-hitting stud that adds some age to an otherwise older lneup. I’ve heard good things about Austin Romine but not as much as Montero.
I didnt say he has no future because I cant speak with that amount of certainty, I said there are questions if he can catch and that he may have to move to a position which wont be available on the yankees.
If you are asking my opinion I dont like the deal but i can certainly see the logic behind it and dont think it is a ridiculous deal in which the yankees are getting screwed
Montero has no future. This is the guy who can’t catch and can’t play first base.
And he doesn’t have enough juice to be an offensive threat in Safeco Field.
And AAA pitching gives him a lot of trouble this year. His bat may not even come.
He isnt a good catcher that doesnt mean he CANT catch and you have absolutely no idea if he can play first or not.
He’s 20 years old and is holding his in AAA that is impressive, for you to say he wont be an offensive threat is ridiculous and goes againt what every talent evaluator, writer and scout has said in print.
Basically you have no idea what you are talking about. I can find you dozens of examples of talent evaluators praising his bat and comparing him to big time sluggers/hitters. Also in the last month he’s hit- .353/.402/.565, with 9 extra base hits. Its not uncommon for a a young guy to struggle at the highest level.
he can’t play 1B. Yanks tried before and failed.
And look at his BABIP. “what every talent evaluator, writer and scout has said in print. ” Oh yeah. They also said Alex Graman throws 95-mph and has 4 plus-plus pitches. They also said Tyler Clippard is a future CYA.
Give me one name. Name one Yankees prospect who was traded by Cashman in the past 10 years who actually became a star. I can tell you. The answer is NONE.
From 01-09, Yanks have traded away following “prospects”:
Wily Mo Pena, Ed Yarnall, Jackson Melian , Brian Reith, Scott Wiggins, Jason Anderson, Ryan Bicondoa, Anderson Garcia, Brandon Claussen, Charlie Manning, Ramon Ramirez, Eduardo Sierra, C.J. Henry, Matt Smith, Jesus Sanchez, Carlos Monastrios, Jeff Kennard, Jeff Karstens, Ross Ohlendorf, Jose Tabata, Daniel McCutchen, Wilson Betemit, Jhonny Nunez, Jeff Marquez, Austin Jackson, Phil Coke, Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn and Arodys Vizcaino.
Tell me any one of them actually develops into a star? Ohlendorf is the best of all. But he is nowhere near what Yanks fans expect: a front-line starter.
Fact, Yanks sold “trash” to other teams for proven players like Raul Mondesi, Armando Benitez, Aaron Boone, Jeff Nelson, Shawn Chacon, Bobby Abreu, Cory Lidle, Jose Melina, Xavier Nady, Damaso Marte, Nick Swisher, Curtis Granderson, Javier Vazquez
I like how you conveniently left out Austin Jackson
From 01-09, Yanks have traded away following “prospects”:
Wily Mo Pena, Ed Yarnall, Jackson Melian , Brian Reith, Scott Wiggins, Jason Anderson, Ryan Bicondoa, Anderson Garcia, Brandon Claussen, Charlie Manning, Ramon Ramirez, Eduardo Sierra, C.J. Henry, Matt Smith, Jesus Sanchez, Carlos Monastrios, Jeff Kennard, Jeff Karstens, Ross Ohlendorf, Jose Tabata, Daniel McCutchen, Wilson Betemit, Jhonny Nunez, Jeff Marquez, Austin Jackson, Phil Coke, Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn and Arodys Vizcaino.
Tell me any one of them actually develops into a star? Ohlendorf is the best of all. But he is nowhere near what Yanks fans expect: a front-line starter.
Fact, Yanks sold “trash” to other teams for proven players like Raul Mondesi, Armando Benitez, Aaron Boone, Jeff Nelson, Shawn Chacon, Bobby Abreu, Cory Lidle, Jose Melina, Xavier Nady, Damaso Marte, Nick Swisher, Curtis Granderson, Javier Vazquez
Montero signed with Yankees at the age of 16 and since then has never played a single professional inning at 1st base in a game. I dont know where you are getting this info. The Yankees routinely have their catchers take grounders at 1st and 3rd but Montero has never been tried out at 1st base.
Tyler Clippard was never considered anything special by professionals. Yankee fans artificially inflated his worth because of his results, but pros always said he was mediocre at best and took advantage of low level talent by pitching backwards and that that approach wouldnt wok in the majors.
Guys who have went on to have productive seasons the Yankees traded are Nick Johnson, Alphonso Soriano, Ted Lilly, Jake Westbrook, Ramon Ramirez, Dionar Navarro, Juan Rivera, Mike Lowell etc. But NONE of those guys were as highly regarded as Montero is now. And if Nick Johnson could stay healthy he is without a doubt a very good ball player.
You didn’t answer the question. 01-09 class who actually became a star. The only guy you mentioned was Mike Lowell(Soriano wasn’t a Yanks prospect. You don’t say Ichiro was a M’s prospect, right?). That was like 13 years ago?Oh yeah, and NONE of those guys, including Jesus Montero, were as highly regarded as DREW HENSON. That’s another fact :DYanks prospect scouting reports are always like this:Phil Hughes: Next Roger Clemens. One-of-the-life-time type. Future HOFer.Dellin Betances: Next Phil Hughes. One-of-the-life-time type. Future HOFer.Jesus Montero: Next Mike Piazza. One-of-the-life-time type. Future HOFer.Austin Romine: Next Jesus Montero. One-of-the-life-time type. Future HOFer.That’s a Joke.
Oh. Yanks didn’t try that in the game. He was so awful in the training.
I havent made any claims that any of these guys was going to turn into a future hall of famer and i already stated that Montero will most likely have to switch positions so im not sure why you are arguing with me.
Also the highest I can see Drew Henson ranked was 9th in 2002 by Baseball America, Nick Johnson was ranked as high as 5th and this year Montero was ranked high in the top 10 this season. So you are incorrect about Henson being the highest prospect. The Dodgers had two guys, Guzman and Jackson, consistently ranked in the top 5 who havent done much but does that mean that every Dodgers prospect is trash?
I certainly classify Nick Johnson as a productive MLBer who was developed by the team
If your position is that the Yankees have traded prospects that havent become superstars thus every prospect in the future they trade is absolute shit i dont agree with that. Prospects fail immensely more then they succeed, I can list you 10 prospects from each org that were highly touted that have failed that doesnt mean that every future guy will suck.
My reply is waiting to be approved by a moderator for some reason but while that happens maybe you could provide some evidence that Montero was tried at 1st and failed?
he can’t play 1B. Yanks tried before and failed.
And look at his BABIP. “what every talent evaluator, writer and scout has said in print. ” Oh yeah. They also said Alex Graman throws 95-mph and has 4 plus-plus pitches. They also said Tyler Clippard is a future CYA.
Give me one name. Name one Yankees prospect who was traded by Cashman in the past 10 years who actually became a star. I can tell you. The answer is NONE.
cause montero isnt hitting right now, hes production has dropped off majorly this season
well there really isnt much room. 1b is locked up for a while. Cervelli plays way better defense to justify the fact he has been playing half of the time. That Dh spot also needs to be open for the aging players. Some players no matter how good may not fit into the plans.
That’s an absurd comment. A lot of the fans and commenters need to get something straight. The Yankees make perfect sense on both ends of this trade. 1st) The match up best for the Mariners needs. 2nd) Pettitte is almost virtually a lock to retire this year, especially with the season he is having. Vasquez would not resign. AJ is spotty and Hughes while he has been brilliant needs another year or two before he true front end (ie 1/2) so going into to 2011, the Yanks have CC as their only true guarantee.
The may lose Montero now, catcher being one the Yanks deepest talent positions, save the loss of draft picks if the signed Lee as a free agent and take those top picks and go get a potential short stop or another pitcher.
Basically, it makes a lot of sense if Cashman can pull off. And yes, I agree Javy gets flipped to someone in the NL. In fact perhaps the balance of the two prospects could come from the team receiving Vasquez.
you must understand this about me…I live in New York state and unless you do as well you have NO IDEA how much the Yankees are shoved down your throat and you are crucified for not being a fan. Because of this, I can’t stand the Yankees and rarely agree with anything they do as well as find it asier to criticize them. Kinda the same way Boston Red Sox fans do.
The only problem with your explanation regarding the starting rotation is that all of your points speak in favor of Lee for next season. If that were the case, why wouldn’t they just pick him up in free agency?
Have you ever heard any catching prospect only caught like 20% runners in AA?
Only two guys did that and were still called “prospect”, one is Montero, the other is Romine. If they’re from other 29 clubs their names were already been forgotten.
Get real. Having two young catchers can’t catch, that’s not deep. It’s FAILURE.
As a player? no, but as a catcher yes.
If the glove won’t play then Montero shouldn’t be compared to Cervelli. He’d have to be seen as a DH or 1B or LF or whatever, and there are excellent players locked in already at many of those spots.
Right. Cervelli can catch. And Montero is the most overrated prospect.
Who cares about Cervelli? The Yankees have two other top catchers in their system, including Austin Romaine, who some scouts think might be a better major league catcher.
Haven’t the Yankees ALWAYS been fine with a lineup of 30-somethings?
yes and I don’t get it
The results seem to speak for themselves.
God, I’m being an apologist for the Yankees business model. I need to go shower… just… feel… so… dirty…
how does a second base prospect match up with their needs..can someone please tell me…wasnt their number 2 overall pick a second baseman? why are they trading for a AA second baseman with no pop
NO your wrong…
The Yankees dont need prospects, every off-season they will reach into the bottomless pit and BUY every all-star available. thats how they play, buy everything they can.
if they pick up lee, they legitimately have bought themselves an all-star team…
i mean the only spot they need a little bit of help could be catcher, they will wait for Yadier Molina or someone else to come up and buy them out.
why keep prospects when you can buy an all-star in the off season?
Wow, this post is so factual, I don’t need to add anything else. Everything is so correct.
The yankees are stupid. Posada is old and Adams can play all infeild possitions, which is good because jeter is getting old as well. So they trade three blue chip prospect, plus next year they will have to at least outbid everyone. So in recap, the yankees trade three prospects, plus 150 million bucks for Lee. I cant wait til he gets hurt.
can someone please tell me why they are acquiring a second base prospect
He can’t play catcher. 22% CS is plain awful. This guy may head to Japan in a few years.
this could very well be the “soriano for randy johnson” deal all over again, and montero becomes like soriano for a year AND THEN THE YANKEES trade him.
Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. He will be a free agent after the season is over. The Yanks offense is getting older and older. They need young hitters.
Ugh
This is just pure speculation on my part. But if they trade Montero it has to mean they must think Lee will be open to an extension either with them, or with whatever other team he would have been traded to.
Montero, McAllister, Joseph, Brackman, De Leon? Just a guess… I’m a Red Sox fan, and I’m on the edge of my seat.
yea, maybe if it was for J Johnson. nice try, though
I’m all for it. Pitching wins you World Championships and having Cliff Lee as our #1 starter gives us a better shot of repeating as World Champions.
There’s also that rumor of Vazquez/Werth
wont happen Vazquez has a partial no trade and the phils are on that list. the phils also want a player controllable past 2010 which he does not
Where did you find that? Cot’s has his NTC to NL West and AL West clubs, no mention of Philly.
Where did you find that? Cot’s has his NTC to NL West and AL West clubs, no mention of Philly.
Bankees are at it again.
Aaron Hicks and Wilson Ramos is better than that deal. Montero doesn’t have a position and he is headling a deal for Lee? Something doesn’t make sense here.
Ummm. Montero was # 4 on Baseball America’s top prospect list and is the only one of the top five not already in the majors. Even if he never finds a true position and ends up a DH, he will still be able to hit enough to make this worth it for the M’s.
he’s hitting 250 with 6 homeruns…fernando martinez has 4 homeruns in the week returning from the DL…hicks by himself has way more value than this deal
Really? Of all the contenders, he makes the least sense on the Yankees. I was really hoping a smaller market like Cincy, Minnesota, Texas traded for him to add some intrigue for the stretch run. Yankees? I just threw up a little bit.
Let’s say the Twins or Rangers acquired Lee…and the Yankees face them in the ALDS. Do you REALLY believe the Yankees would beat Lee twice?
Maybe, maybe not. But they could easily beat the other pitchers on the roster. The Yankees have the least need and it really will make me sad if that’s where Lee ends up.
How many posts until a NYY fan says: “Maybe we can do this deal without Montero?”
You know, maybe the Yankees could get this deal done without even giving up Montero.
Ship Vazquez to philly and ship those prospects and a couple avg ones of their own to Seattle.
If it’s that easy, why wouldn’t the Phillies just trade for him themselves? Lee is definitively better than Vasquez? If the Yanks did that, they’d still have to flip an extra prospect.
actually the way its looking this season the Cardinals will probably take Vazquez, Heck they already signed 4 players released since May.
who else is in the deal? i mean montero is good (though seeing Jeff Clement fail in seattle makes me question their catching development skills), but if that’s all the deal will include, i can’t see how that would top the deal Minnesota placed, with a solid C Prospect (Ramos) and a decent OF Prospect (Hicks).
Hicks is a potential five-tool powerhouse talent. That’s a bit better than a decent OF prospect.
First, we don’t know Minnesota actually offered Ramos and Hicks. That’s speculation.
In terms of what the Yankees can offer, 2B David Adams is rumored to be included and looks pretty good. 23 year old in AA, 309/393/507 slash line this year. Mariners have Dustin Ackley in AA at 2B, but they could possibly move Adams to 3B or something like that – or just have two good 2B prospects. I could see Seattle asking for a third prospect like Zach McAllister. 5th starter type, nothing amazing, but another back of the rotation guy to throw in with Fister, Vargas, RRS, etc.
I know Yankees fans loathe the idea of giving up Montero, but it does make some sense. If you assume he isn’t going to stay at C, then he’s blocked at 1B by Texieira, and you really need to keep the DH spot open to rotate in Posada, A Rod, etc when they need days off. So, he’s really most useful in trade.
Finally, we know Jack Z is looking for guys he can plug in now. Even if Minnesota offered Hicks, he may very well have said, look, this guy isn’t going to help us for a few years, best case scenario. I have Felix Hernandez, Franklin Gutierrez, and Ichiro locked up for the next few years. I need to surround them with talent now. Not saying that’s the right option, but I think that’s his mindset.
Exactly that’s what I’ve been trying to tell people. Montero has a terrific bat but his inability to field his position behind the plate evened out his bat.
I was never impressed with Thole at first last year (begginers luck) and the start of this year (bad numbers defensively,offensively in AAA) but his bat is unstoppable and clutch and his defense suffered only from catching the knuckleballer Dickey. At this rate I think Thole is the better all round catching prospect out there and I’m glad his underrated status will keep him a Met.
Zach McAllister a back of the rotation prospect? He’s having a weak year but his numbers from previous seasons are flat out nasty.
Clement was developed under a different front office, so the catching development has changed in Seattle, and also the Mariners seem pretty high on Adam Moore to come through as at least an average ML catcher, so I doubt they see Montero as a long term catcher. My guess is the give him a little chance to work at catcher and them move to 1B, and if his defense is that bad at 1B then they just drop him into the DH spot since there is no one on that team that is gonna need that position long term.
Clement was developed under a different front office, so the catching development has changed in Seattle, and also the Mariners seem pretty high on Adam Moore to come through as at least an average ML catcher, so I doubt they see Montero as a long term catcher. My guess is the give him a little chance to work at catcher and them move to 1B, and if his defense is that bad at 1B then they just drop him into the DH spot since there is no one on that team that is gonna need that position long term.
After this trade I’ve heard the rumor that the yanks will ship Javier Vasquez to the phillies for Jason werth! Wfan 660am
This is not a straight up proposal this is the framework of a possible transaction….
I’m pretty sure there is NO way the Phillies will be taking Vazquez for Werth straight up.
Amaro would be fired.
This is simply the framework of a proposed deal, there will be others included, in order to satisfy the teams involved.
As a Red Sox fan i will say that this will undoubtedly put the nail in the coffin for this year for the Sox.
CC
Lee
Hughes
Pettite
WHEN the Yankees make the playoffs they will without a doubt (barring major major injury) be in line for a repeat.
It’s not close to the same scenario; but i think i feel kinda like Cleveland Cavelier fans felt about 12 hours ago.
I can only hope that the Twins/Reds/Mets (etc) read the news and make an offer the Mariner’s can’t refuse.
“I can only hope that the Twins/Reds/Mets (etc) read the news and make an offer the Mariner’s can’t refuse.”
I bet the Yankees are hoping the exact same thing.
I bet you we can get this deal done without Montero if we include Colin Curtis
Didn’t mean to like but, how can you replace your top prospect in a trade with your 21st ranked prospect and think that will get it done? Plus Curtis isn’t that good of a prospect. He has average to barely above average tools.
Pretty sure that was sarcasm
Why stop there? Where’s Enrique Wilson when you need him? What’s he doing these days?
This deal makes no sense for the Yankees. They don’t need any more starting pitching. I’m a Yankees fan and I’m saying this. Cashman always said there is no reason to trade for a guy when he can sign him for cash only, that’s why they didn’t trade for Sabathia. Unless they are going to trade for Lee and then deal Vazquez for a bat I don’t see this going down.
I can’t stand the Yankees as much as anyone but when they trade a prospect like Austin Jackson and he performs the way he has it makes all their other prospects look that much better. The rule holds: you never count the Yankees out of any possible transaction for a big-time player. They may or may not ultimately get him, but all those who count them out of these situations should know better by now.
Austins Jackson is crashing hard after a very hot start, his OPS since May is sub .750, and that’s still with a .350+ BABIP.
That’s true but he looked very good for a long time and when it comes to these deals often many teams — when they deal with the Yanks — see too much pinstripes and not enough reality. Ajax lights it up for a couple of months and GMs go wow, who else they got? Some real question marks about Montero too but Seattle clearly looking past them.
The only real questions about Montero are defensive ones. Honestly I have this theory that he’s struggled at AAA because he’s been so focused on improving his defense, but he gets moved to 1B and can focus on his hitting more, then I think he’s got insanely high potential.
Anything that is left in the yankees farm system will be on the way out the door with this trade. This is really dumb for a what will prolly be a rental for the rest of the year. the yankees are aging butting way to much on legs and arms that at anytime could be hurt do to wear and tear. this just feels like a “robbing peter to pay paul” scenario. Just dumb…
I think the Yankees should trade for Cliff Lee so they won’t lose against him tonight, then flip him right after the win.
As a Red Sox fan, I like this trade. As long as the Yankees give up their future for a temporary rental, then I’d be a big fan.
Jesus Montero is better than people think. In a combination of 5 different prospect rankings, Montero ranked 4th overall in March of this year. Ahead of Carlos Santana, Stanton, Smoak, Posey, Domonic Brown. He’s a big name prospect.
this won’t be a rental
no way the yanks sign him if there isn’t a deal in place
I’m less concerned now having looked up his splits against the Sox. They’re pretty pedestrian. On top of that, he’s going to be 32 soon and you know they’re going to lock him up for something like five years. If, on top of everything, they give up their best prospect to get him NOW, then I’m all for it. Cashman’s got them in good position to win a few right now, but he’s also putting them in position to be extremely crippled in about three years.
Dont forget that Lee is on the Mariners who arent such a very good team! Some of the numbers may nt be his fault!
It doesnt matter what you say. Your Poop!
Just to note, I’m talking his career splits, not just this season. The Sox haven’t faced him this year to my recollection. That aside, the team behind him’s overall quality isn’t going to affect his pitching stats unless they’re an absolute mess in terms of defensive range.
Mariner’s have wanted Smoak or Montero from the very begining and I thought they were nuts for asking for that much. Not so crazy anymore. I’m sure the Yanks will move Vazquez if this goes down if he isn’t included in the swap.
I can’t decide if acquiring Montero is worth watching the Yankees win another World Series.
Honest, that’s a really tough call.
I feel sorry for mets and twins fans.
You mean more than usual?
i dont…lol
If the price is as high as it seems, it’s not worth it for the Twins. I think they are more than an ace away from winning anyway.
I just don’t get this move though. Yes, it will make the Yanks a lot more deadly, but they don’t really need him for the regular season or the playoffs. Why give up something to get a guy who will go to the highest bidder (in years/money or both) when he might just come to you in a few months without losing prospects.
Completely agree, and as everyone can tell, I’m a Yankee fan. I hate that we’re giving up Montero for a rental. Yes, I know that Cashman will most likely sign him long term, but as of right now, he is still a rental and we are giving up one of the best prospects in baseball for something that isn’t even a need on this team imo. I can only hope that this trade falls through.
Wondering if it’s not so much about Yanks needing Lee as it is about them not wanting to face him. Especially if it’s in the playoffs.
Joel Sherman of the New York Post reports that if the Yankees were able to finalize a deal for Cliff Lee, they would not start him against the Mariners on Friday night. More broadly, they may have a “gentlemen’s agreement” in place not to start Lee against the Mariners this weekend to avoid the potential embarrassment of the left-hander shutting down his former team in his old stadium. There’s nothing final yet, but the fact that we are already addressing something like this is an indication that the two sides are pretty close to an agreement. Source: Joel Sherman on Twitter
It’s not like the Yankees can’t easily re-sign Lee if they wish to in the off-season.
The trade will probably have to include an extension, much like the Halladay deal.
Wren, stop playing hard-ball and offer them McLouth and Kawikami already!!!!
Is that a joke?!
If he gets traded mid-game can he just go over to the other dugout and hang out in his Mariners jersey?, haha.
I laugh when I read ” As A Red Sox fan I would be happy if they make this trade”
That is laughable. The only thing you should be happy about is, that there is a wild card in place.
What amazes me is why Yankee fans would care that Lee is old and they lose Montero…..when all they will do is go out and pay for someone else. They always throw money at their problems…like they did last year….when it was clear what they had could not do it alone. They will overpay for anyone…even if it means that it keeps them from playing with a rival and for nothing more than that.
Doc3234….they are greedy…it’s not enough and have to be involved in everything. Like I said….they can overpay for anyone with their resources and they will use them. NO team has the resources they have with their Cable deal and this new stadium. They are also going to use them, which some teams will not do, even if they had them.
boy that’s a stupid comment
Exactly who did they “throw money at” this past offseason? Nick Johnson? Randy Winn? Marcus Thames? Yeah, those contracts are really going to become a burden…..
and the rich get richer….
I have a feeling this deel will go down! My fellow yankee fans, its gonna be tough knowing that MOntero is gone but we have 2 other very very good catching prospects in Austin Romine and Gary Sanchez. Oh, and anybody saying thatthis deal isnt worth it, you should step back and look at it from the Yanks perspective because, yea they dont usually have a good farm system but they are planning for the future. The only reason they will be going after a rental is because they must have an extension in place and ready to go. With Pettitte, this presumably his last year, the yankees will have a lefty in Lee if they get and extend him which will happen I am telling ya!
Aquí ganó el dinero de nuevo y no el baseball………esto es malo para el baseball lamentablemente. Ya no vale la pena esto. MLB se dañó. Aqui demuestra q en la MLB gana el dinero no baseball, lamentablemente! Es una pena…………
de que hablas!!! Aqui gano el que ofrecio mejores prospectos!!!
I seriously don’t get this. It seems like a poor use of resources. Montero is a great young talent who simply needs another year at AAA. Starting pitching is a strength for us. The net gain beteen Lee and Vazquez isn’t enough to warrant losing Montero and others. I would rather the Yanks use some lesser prospects to get a “get me over” bat and some bench players. If the trade goes down then there better be an extention as well to keep Lee already in place.
Yanks wouldnt get a rental if they werent going to extend him, the extension of Cliff Lee will sort of make up for the loss of Montero, plus we have two other very very good catching prospects in Romine and Sanchez, Romine was always complimented for being the better all-around catcher.
As I life long Yankee fan I welcome the trade to improve the rotation. CC, AJ Lee & Petite quite the 4 some. I think the Yanks are happy with their catching situation with Cervelli so maybe Montero has become expendable…the Yanks can always sign a free agent young catcher if they needed. I thought Kevin Cash was a good catcher when he was in NY
For the Yanks it might be the rich get richer but the truth is if any owner has that amount the money to invest in their baseball team, they would. It is a shame there is a term called small market but right now that is the way it is. If the Yanks trade for Lee you know Boston & Tampa try to counter that with a hitter or another pitcher..
It is like this every year – it might seem unfair to an extent but look what happened last night with the Heat – Lebron + Wade + Bosh were all signed to compete with the Celtics big 3
ok MLB isnt the NBA but still
Happy Friday 🙂
Kevin Cash is a AAAA player at best, and while I love Cervelli’s fire and passion, he’s only a backup C. Now, Montero might not ever become a C, and if he can’t stick behind the plate, then this trade might sting a little less, but I still don’t condone giving up one of the best prospects in all of baseball for a rental.
I don’t understand WHY they’re doing this. The Yankees do not need Cliff Lee. The biggest problem has been the BULLPEN. Teams like the Rangers, Mets, Reds and Twins need a Cliff Lee because they have troubles in their ROTATION.
In some way, I hope they do this. Slowly they are getting older and have less and less prospects. That Curtis Granderson trade is working reallll well isn’t it now?
Honestly this deal makes no sense for the Yankees. Why give up one of the top prospects in baseball who you could presumably just sign after the year. Jesus Montero is a completely legitimate top 5 prospect; one who could easily be a better hitter than Heyward or Stanton, or at least just as good. The Yankees need to get younger and trading a 20-year old superstar for a 32-year old ace makes no sense. The only way I make this deal if I am Cashman is if Montero is not included. And don’t immediately say “no way” the Yankees can get it done w/o him. They can, and pretty easily. It has been said that Romine is better than Montero and the M’s want a stud catcher in return, which he qualifies as. If Montero is enough to center a deal, not much more would have to be included if Romine centers it. Another option is using one of our outfielders to acquire Lee. IF the rumor is true that we will flip Vasquez to Philly for Werth, than we immediately have a surplus of OF’ers. I’m sure Seattle would love to have Gardner and Romine in a deal and it makes sense for the Yanks.For the rest of the year replace Gardner in LF with Werth. Then after the season get some picks for Werth and sign Crawford. The plan all along was to get Crawford and trading Gardner just let us get Lee. I’m sure Romine, Gardner, Adams and McAllister would be plenty to get Lee. And if not, let him go to the Twinkies and sign him in the offseason. However, this deal makes absolutely no sense to trade for Lee if we have to give up Montero. I’ve looked forward to Jesus mashing since he became highly regarded and trading him for Lee make no sense at all.
So go get Werth, which the Yanks definitely do not have a need for, get rid of Gardner, who in my opinion could have been a potential all star and actually serves a great purpose on the team and keep Montero, someone who the Yanks are unsure if he projects to be their future catcher, when they have two other tremendous prospects waiting for that position.
Most of the commenters clearly have ZERO idea what they are talking about on here. You go get Lee now if you have the opportunity. Montero, while he sounds great, actually serves little purpose to the future of the Yanks. Plus, they gain the potential picks for Lee, which they can in turn go out and draft future infielders 3rd and SS.
First logical answer I have seen yet! And no bias even though you do sound like a Yankee fan. Like you said Montero isn’t yet proven 100% even though he does have a tremendous bat, what if he turns into a Kei Igawa or Joba in his messed up development because Monetro is so young and rushed and is already in triple-A? Don’t forget that what you here from some scouts can be sugar-coated to make him look better in a trade to bump up his value, so his value could not be what it seems.
If Cashman is going to trade his #1 prospect, I have to believe that he 100% plans on extending Lee, draft pick compensation should go out the window. And while Montero might not have a position to play on the Yankees team, that doesn’t mean that he can’t be used to get a different player that is under control for longer and that we don’t have to give out a market value extension to.
You do realize that Montero won’t be a catcher for long and that he is block at 1B if they decided to put him there? Yankees don’t want to make him a full time DH at the age of 20-21 either. Besides the Yanks have Romie, Sanchez.
IF we were to trade one of our OFer’s I’d rather trade Granderson, put Gardner in CF (he’s a prototypical centerfielder) and then you’d move Swisher to LF and leave Werth in RF since Werth is the vastly superior defender.
How about Romine/Hector Noesi/Adams/Melancon for Lee
The Yankees are making Baseball one big joke. When does it stop? $300 million “All Star team”? The only good thing is that “Father Time” is catching up with thier hitters.
Didn’t your summer school course start yet?
Yankees should be looking at a three team trade that gives up Vazquez, whose new team sends a couple of prospects to the M’s along with Montero.
To some extent, this is probably the reality of the situation. Amazing that you and I maybe the one two commenters that realize this.
DONT DO ITTTTTTT KEEP MONTERO
A lot of the fans and commenters need to get something straight. The Yankees make perfect sense on both ends of this trade. 1st) The match up best for the Mariners needs. 2nd) Pettitte is almost virtually a lock to retire this year, especially with the season he is having. Vasquez would not resign. AJ is spotty and Hughes while he has been brilliant needs another year or two before he true front end (ie 1/2) so going into to 2011, the Yanks have CC as their only true guarantee. The may lose Montero now, catcher being one the Yanks deepest talent positions, save the loss of draft picks if the signed Lee as a free agent and take those top picks and go get a potential short stop or another pitcher. Basically, it makes a lot of sense if Cashman can pull off. And yes, I agree Javy gets flipped to someone in the NL. In fact perhaps the balance of the two prospects could come from the team receiving Vasquez.
Every team has deep catching pools. But is is a hard position to develop and most catching prospects either move or don’t pan out. Remember the Rangers depth with Saltalamacchia, Teagarden, Ramirez, ect? How have those prospects panned out.
No, every team doesn’t have deep catching prospects. You basically confirmed my point why this trade makes tremendous sense for the Yanks.
Actually a lot of teams stock up on catching prospects. The Red Sox are full of them, he Rangers still have quite a few. They are so hard to project and can’t be based just on their AA numbers.
Exactly why won’t people understand this! Montero has an “elite” bat but his terrible defense behind the plate makes some scouts think that he cant be catching much longer and will probably end up a 1B or a DH and that doesnt fit on the Yankees roster, hes blocked by Posada and Tex and they need to keep DH open for Posada, Arod, Jeter. Plus the Yanks wouldn’t trade for Lee in the middle of the season if they weren’t going to extend his contract. Montero has a great bat but he isnt 100% proven, Lee is a CY Young winner and a contender for this years CY Young too. This deal makes perfect sense like you said and anybody who doesn’t get needs look at it in more depth.
donka
couldn’t have said it better myself…excellent point
thank you very much.
Andy Pettitte is a free agent and almost a certainty to retire at season’s end, he has been putting it off for a couple of season’s now, I wish he would go on forever but that is not likely
Vazquez is a Free Agent and the Yankees aren’t prioritizing resigning him.
The Yankees are loaded with catching prospects and the Mariners are looking for a catching prospect
Also in this season’s playoffs the Yankees will need 4 starter, unlike when they needed only 3 in the best of 7 last season. The schedule is different this year.
This deal makes sense for the Yankees and Mariners
Montero is a prospect with career numbers of
.309 AVG, .368 OBP, .486 SLG, .855 OPS, 43 HR, 211 RBI’s in 334 Minor League games over 4 seasons.
And he is still 20 years old, 21 in November, wow.
The Yankees traded Austin Jackson, Phil Coke and Ian Kennedy and they are doing pretty well in their new homes
Austin Jackson – .306 AVG, .355 OBP, 20 doubles and 93 hits as a 1st year every day leadoff hitter and CF in the Majors
Ian Kennedy – he is 3-7 with a 4.16 ERA, but his peripheral numbers are pretty good.
106 IP, 92 H, 49 ER, 40 BB, 95 K, 1.25 WHIP, .234 BAA
Phil Coke – 5-0, 34.2 IP, 33 H, 10 ER, 13 BB, 28 K, 2.60 ERA
This deal makes sense for short and long term needs of both parties.
Do the Yankee fans out there know how frustrating it is to fans of every other team that their team manages to get their hands on every player that’s worth having?
Damn Yankees!
No, I am a Yank fan and I could care less. Any other team could pull off this trade, but they choose not too. So why hate the Yanks again, if YOUR team won’t pony up. You people need some perspective.
Here is a question;
You know how frustrating it is to Yankee fans, that the fans of all other teams don’t realize that their front offices won’t sometimes do what is necessary to bring them a championship. This is not trading for Werth who would probably be a marginal improvement over what most teams currently have. This is Cliff Lee. Any team that wants to compete this year, should offer that tremendous package.
Most clubs don’t have money like yours does though…
In this rare case, money is irrelevant. However in terms of an extension, you mean to tell me that no other team can manage to put aside btw $15mm-$18mm for a cy young winning pitcher. I mean come on…Oli Perez makes that and he is cleaning bathrooms these days.
We tried with CC before you signed him. We just don’t have enough money to sign the big names AND field a competitive team. (i.e. have solid #2 and #3 at least and a few big bats signed)
Your right to some degree, money sometimes is irrelevant, its the city. If you were a CY Young pitcher and decisiding where you would want to go, where would you choose, Minnesota?, Texas?, or New York City. Some of the reasons why we get plaers is because of the city. Players might choose NY because of all the endorsments and the media recognition, those are contributing factors as to why we get good players!
You should see how much money GM’s and Owners pocket instead of putting it into the team, that’s called greed and Yankees don’t do that thats why they make a profit, good teams=championship, championship=fans, fans=money, money=good players, good players=championship. Its a never ending cycle!
I realize that. I wish them no ill will. It’s still frustrating. Then it gets constantly thrown in your face how good the Yankees are when ESPN, TBS, MLB Network only shows your team when they are PLAYING the Yankees. As if there is no other teams on earth that are worth watching. Ever. It’s good to be king!
Yay for you, the teams I root for can never catch up because it is a never ending cycle.
Agreed, that’s when the salary cap discussion gets started. There is little competetive balance with the Yankees around.
Well write a petition to your teams owner to put more money into the team and maybe more fans will turn out so the organization will make more money for good players! But theres one thing that I do sympathize with another is their location. Like Pittsburgh for example, im gonna go out on a limb and say that they are a football town because of the Steelers and because of that the Pirates don’t get much attention so people won’t go to games cuz its boring, or it could be that Pittsburgh is just not a baseball town. And one other thing, you shouldn’t be mad at a team that spends money they have and the money they earned its not their problem they get what they want because they have the money! And many people don’t realize how much money wealthy teams give in revenue sharing and when the money goes to the ownser and GMs they just pocket the money and not on the team because they are greedy and don’t care.
Are you high on meth? The Yankees have one of the oldest, and biggest market teams. It’s about geographical location!
Actually most of the Yankees money comes from their lucrative TV contract.
I hope the Yankees get Werth and sign him. They will likely overpay for him (much like bay although Werth won’t fall off like Bay) and Crawford wouldn’t go there
Even if its only Montero, and it probably won’t be, that’s a great return for Seattle.
The article says it would be atleast 3 prospects.
I just can’t believe the Yankees can get this done. I mean I’m a yankee hater as much as the next guy but man they do whatever they can to win. The only conselation out of this as a phillies fan is if this does get done maybe the phils can get Vasquez and get him back in the division he dominated last year. But that rotation for the yankees with lee would be out of control. This is going to burn for a while if lee signs long term.
He will sign long term, that’s the whole reason why the Yanks are even going to trade for him mid-season.
I hope the Yankee’s make this deal and end up losing the World Series anyway. That would be GREAT.
I feel sorry for you my friend. Keep up the hate.
I feel sorry for you my friend. Keep up the hate.
I’m pretty sure as a fan of a team I hope a lot of teams that aren’t mine lose in the series. Doesn’t mean I hate them.
But he is specifically saying he hopes the Yankees do everything they can to win (get Lee), and then proceed to lose, that is hating.
I just hope the Yankees lose no matter who they overpay.
As always Omar Minaya can’t get the job done….one guy the Mets needed and he’s going to let the Yankees, who don’t need him, get him…..good job Omar, now u can get Lilly for nothing and watch your job dwindle away in September
The buzz is the Mets only wanted Lee as a rental and that affected their offer. In the end, they didn’t want to pay two pitchers $20M or more per year. People will look at that a variety of ways, some will say grudgingly that it was right to pass and others will say he blew it because the deal was there and the Mets (again) wouldn’t do it what it takes to win. It sucks to lose out on Lee to the Yankees but the Mets are still in it, no one’s running away with the NL east. They need to improve both the rotation and the bullpen if they’re serious, though.
To give an idea of why the Mariners would want Montero, Lee is not a guy they will be resigning anyway, here is the minor league career of Justin Smoak who has been rumored about with the Rangers, Wilson Ramos of the Twins and Jesus Montero. Minor league career numbersSmoak – .293 BA, .411 OBP, .461 SLG, .872 OPS, 17 HR, 30 2B, 68 RBI (135 Games over 3 seasons)Ramos – .279 BA, .327 OBP, .425 SLG, .752 OPS, 35 HR, 80 2B, 202 RBI (359 Games over 5 seasons)Montero – .309 BA, .368 OBP, .486 SLG, .855 OPS, 43 HR, 84 2B, 211 RBI (334 Games over 4 seasons)Montero on top of that is 2 years younger than Ramos and 3 years younger than Smoak,No wonder the Mariners would want Montero
your forgetting that the difference is that Montero is a terrible defensive catcher! He is more of a 1B DH.
Smoak and Montero are better hitters than Ramos no argument from me there, difference is Ramos plays a premium position and has the skills to stick their defensively, same can’t be said for Smoak or Montero.
Why cant the yankees trust their farm system to bring up pitcher,hitter like pettite and cano instead of trading or buying allstar players at every postion.
Unless they have a guy like Strasburg, who do you suggest they bring up that will impact the same way Lee would?
Jeter, Cano, Mo, Gardner, Joba, Pettitte, Hughes, Posada, Cervelli, Robertson, Pena, Curtis, and Russo are all guys who are on the Yankees current roster and have come up through their farm system. How do they not trust their own farm system?
Because they can use everyone else’s team as their farm system.
All I can say is, I hate the Yankees.
I wonder if the Pads could get Vasquez for Heath Bell? Vasquez would be tough in PETCO, back in the National League. Pads would have to absorb some payroll. Just a thought
Mike Adams. Not Heath Bell.
The same thought crossed my mind, though not for Bell. My guess is the Yankees will probably want to get a couple young arms for Vazquez. I would think they would also be willing to eat a large portion of his salary to facilitate a deal (and will probably need to). The more they eat, the better the prospect. Vazquez is an NL pitcher, he needs the bigger parks. He’d sure make the rotation a lot better.
How I think things could shake out:
(have to throw the Braves in there for good measure)
Lee to the Yanks for Montero, Adams, and prospect
Werth to the Yanks for Vazquez, McAllister, and a prospect from the Braves (JJ Hoover?)
Gardner to the Braves for O’Flaherty, *bench player* and lesser prospect
*bench player could be anyone from a higher payed guy like McLouth, to an excelent 4OF Melky, or a solid MI non-prospect like Diory Hernandez to a middling MI prospect like Brandon Hicks*
After the trades Brown is called up to play RF in Philly, Werth plays RF with Swisher moving to LF, Gardner starts in CF in Atlanta with Dunn getting called up to replace O’Flaherty in the pen.
Are you serious? That’s too much for Werth in my opinion and thats too little for Gardner, he has actually become a pretty productive player and is worth more than that. Plus, I will never take Melky back on the Yanks PERIOD.
Ok, I guess that’s fair. What if you remove McAllister and made *lesser prospect* into something of real value like Zeke Spruill? Also you may not have noticed how good O’Flaherty has been for the last two years and he still has three more years of team control after this season.
How about switching Gardner for Granderson? I’d take that deal if we can get someone solid to throw in the bullpen and a B prospect.
I also heard Lebron was going to the Knicks.
That report went well.
I know how it feels, you cover you eyes because you don’t want to see this happen.
This is a very SMART move for NY (and I’m a diehard Phillies fan.) They are giving up Montero (who they have been willing to give up since the winter, so obviously they don’t see him as an asset to the club, but an asset for a trade…) and two other prospects for the most dominant pitcher in the game, who will LOVE playing for them, who DESTROYED them in the post season, who will be easier to lock up in (or before) the offseason, and…The RAYS, TWINS and RANGERS (who would likely face them in the playoffs) don’t get him. Cliff Lee to either of those other teams is not a good thing for the Yankees. Cliff Lee, CC, Pettite and Hughes is not a good thing for ANYONE else. If this goes down, barring injury, them may as well start puring the mold for the rings. Kudos to them for making a bold, aggresive move.
then they ship Vasquez and prospects (or maybe Brett Gardner) to Philly for Werth and maybe another prospect or two…
If the best team always won the world series no one would watch
Maybe a lot of other teams should start playing for the now and not the future. A lot of teams and fans like to say we have these prospects that project great. We are going to be competitive in 2 or 3 years. We have this in the works. We have that. We could do that, etc. No, the Yanks actually do it. They always have and will continue to do so.
The Rays have basically been the only team to ever pull this off (budget conscience great drafting) and I sincerely congratulate them on their recent success of the last 3 years. Unfortunately, it took over a decade to complete.
Your exactly right and the Yankees can afford a blow like loosing a prospect like montero because they have the money to absorb it!
Your post had nothing to do with what I said.
Cliff Lee isn’t the most dominant pitcher in the game.
Please please please say Roy Halladay. Because if you say Jimenez, I’m going to be sad.
Josh Johnson and Ubaldo Jimenez are both better than Halladay.
Josh Johnson is on par with him.
Ubaldo IS NOT BETTER than him.
Really?
He’s gone 8 innings or more in 10 of his 13 starts.
He’s given up a total of 10 RUNS in his 4 losses or ND’s, so when he loses, he gives up on average 2.5 runs.
He’s struck out 89 batters in 103 innings and walked 6.
I repeat. 6.
take away his ONLY BAD GAME on may 21st where he went 6 1/3 and gave up 7 runs, and his era is 1.84.
Even with it, its 2.34
he’s 4-0 in the postseason with a 1.56 ERA in 5 starts with 40 innnings. 33k’s, 6 walks.
There isn’t a pitcher out there who I’d rather have if I was the Yankees, INCLUDING Halladay and Jimenez.
Say what you want about Ubaldo Jimenez. I’ll take Cliff Lee.
Lee missed an entire month. If I was the Yankees, I would want Felix Hernandez, Ubaldo Jimenez, or Josh Johnson over Cliff Lee.
Awesome (sarcasm). So even if my Phillies find a way to right the ship and get back to the WS again this year, their former postseason hero will be waiting, along with CC and Pettite. Groan…
22% caught stealing in AAA. Montero can’t play catcher.
Damn it’s another steal for the Yanks. They get the ACE and M’s get the peanuts.
You are crazy dude. Montero is definitely NOT peanuts.
He’s also got a ton of past balls this year. Can’t find the number.
But he’s not peanuts. His bat is great. It’ll just be diminished heavily in that ballpark.
How’s Montero’s bat great? He’s hitting like .250 with six homers in AAA.
Yes, because BA, HR, and 77 AAA games are most definitely the best way to judge a 20 year old.
Even hear of a slow start to a first stint at AAA?
Clearly the Yanks are in on this because there are not satisfied with their 4 and 5 starters for the playoffs if one of the top 3 is injured in the second half of the season; and most importantly they will not have to face Lee in the playoffs themselves. Obviously a smart move and Yanks have the chips Seattle needs. No way division rival Texas was going to land Lee, and apparently Seattle likes Montero better than Ramos. Maybe the Twins/Reds/Rangers can hook Oswalt, at least he is not a rental.
no I don’t think so at all. I think this is a smart move.
1. They must think Montero’s future isn’t at catcher. If it’s 1B then he’s blocked by Tex.
2. They must have been planning to chase Lee as a free agent. This means to them it is no rental assuming they gamble and do sign him at some point.
3. What makes the trade smart then is they give the M’s what they want to get Lee, they assume they gamble and win and sign him eventually, and then assuming they do they don’t have to surrender two picks.
4. This gives them a way to trade from SP depth for the hitter they need.
Smart and logical when you think about it.
As a Yankee fan, the more and more I look at this deal, the better I feel about it. Our pitching has been a strength, but Javy has been shaky and Hughes is going to miss some starts here and there due to an innings cap. Putting Lee together with CC, Pettitte, AJ, and Hughes for the rest of the season and in the post season pretty much makes the Yankees the WS front-runner for this year, no questions asked.
Looking at this deal in the long term, it still isn’t as bad as it seems. Montero would not have been a catcher in the majors, he would have been a 1B/DH type player. First base is already taken up by Tex, and by the time Montero would have come up, we would have needed to keep the DH spot open as a revolving door for A-Rod, Posada, Jeter etc. as someone else put it. Assuming we sign Lee to an extension, this make the deal better. Yes, we will get older and eventually that will be a problem, but we still have some good prospects to work with, and this helps us for our immediate goal, a World Series.
If we do end up trading Javy as well, I would rather trade him for a few decent-good prospects than an OFer like Werth. We obviously can’t get anybody a Cliff Lee could, but we can hopefully get a couple of prospects to regain some of the depth lost from the pending Lee deal. Werth would be nice, but our OF has actually been one of our strenghts, and I worry about our farmsystem more than our OF.
No way the Phillies would give up Werth for Vazquez
Gotta love that parity in baseball where every team has the same chance to sign any player! Can’t wait for the next CBA negotiations, salary caps here we come! Yahoo!
Oh yes. A Salary Cap, which removes all parity from baseball. Wait, you don’t think there’s parity right now? Boy, are you mistaken.
You put a salary cap in, and you’ll have yourself a good ol’ strike.
Here we go, someone talking about parity without looking at what they are actually saying.
Look at the teams in contention in baseball
Yankees
Rays
Red Sox
Tigers
White Sox
Twins
Texas
Angels
Atlanta
NY Mets
Philadelphia
Cincinatti
St. Louis
San Diego
Colorado
Los Angeles
San Francisco
What was that about parity again. Nice try.
Those big market Reds, Padres, Twins are sure suffering to compete.
If you think for example the Pittsburgh Pirates and Royals of the world is all about money, think again. Those teams have been bad for years for a reason.
Not only that, Macfan1. I think I counted 12 or 13 of those teams you listed as having playoff appearances over the past ten years (2000-2010), at least half of those with multiple appearances, 7 of them are World Series Champions, 3 of them in the world series twice, and 2 of them are multiple champions.
I bet you he says WELL THE SOX AND YANKS ARE THE MULTIPLE CHAMPS SO LOL NO PARITY.
Who do you think the third prospect will be?
I’d *like* it to be another player who can be useful in 2011. No idea if the Yankees would be willing to include him, but Zach McAllister’s interesting. Back of the rotation guy who can complete for a starting slot in 2011. Or a guy like Mark Melancon who could go right into the 2011 bullpen.
May be wishful thinking on my part. It’ll probably be a lower level guy.
If you’re getting Montero, then yes, it is very wishful thinking.
More wishful thinking, but if it’s not going to be one of those two, two more interesting names are Andrew Brackman and Dellin Betances. Both had been off the radar for a while, but Brackman put up pretty good numbers in A+ this year and Betances is doing the same.
I doubt the Yankees will throw them in, since they have upside, but two more guys I’d like to get, as a Mariners fan.
No way Brackman is included, he has solid upside from what I’ve read, he just hasn’t been healthy.
No extension window? This deal sucks. No, I don’t care if we’re getting Cliff Lee. Yes, I’m aware we have like 4 catchers who have the potential to be as good as the rest (3 of them can actually field their position! *gasp*) I want that extension window.
My god. Leave Lee alone. They werent even the front runners to get Lee. The Rangers have the better prospects, and the M’s can make the rangers give them what they need. Just go after Dan Haren you stupid ass yankee morons.
Please comment more often so that we all can read your wonderful insight and extremely childish reactions.
Basically it’s like the Brewers getting Sabathia so they could go to the playoffs.
what if you throw huffman in the deal to seattle? im thinking that they called him up in the first place to get him out there so that they could trade him
The Yankees bullpen has been quite terrible this year (exluding mariono) I think the Yankees with discuss sticking javy in the pen if they can’t deal him for a good return. Although I think Javier is having fine starts, I think ultimatley he will be moved because of AJ’s potential.
Anybody think the owners of small market teams are going to push for a salary cap as the Yankees continue to acquire whoever they want?
No because they Yankees can’t get WHOEVER they want…we wouldn’t have Swisher, Granderson, and Gardner in the outfeild if that was true. However, both Swisher and Gardner are having outstanding year. Also, we wouldn’t have such a crappy bullpen if that was the case. They made Abritration though.
The Yankees bullpen has been terrible this year (exluding Mariano.) If they can’t deal Javy for a good return they will discuss sticking him in bullpen. Remember way back in May Javy got a big out in pen against the Red Sox. Although Javier has made fine starts ever since his first few, he will ultimatley be the one being moved because AJ has such good stuff you can’t give up on him.
Ah. I love how the yankees fans though he would be a ace after what he did with the braves, but nah he’s just a wash up you guys wanted because the yankees are basically that spoiled brat you see in a toy store rolling around the floor screaming that they want that toy and their mom is sitting there looking embarrased.
Also, epic fail on the negotiation window.
What’s epic fail?
You won’t be able to negotiate a extension with him that’s the epic fail.
extension with you lee? yes you will he has tried to work an extension with every team he has been on…and javier is not a fail he was a mediocre AL pitcher and a beast of an NL pitcher, it simply means he should stay in the NL
LOL.
You are kidding yourself BIG time if you think we thought he would be HALF the pitcher he was for the Braves.
We wanted him to pitch like a number 4 for us. Grow up, kid.
Remember when Javy came in to face Damon with the bases loaded in game 7 on the 2004 ALCS? Ah….. good times.
Remember when the Yankees won the World Series last year?
Ah…good times.
Before you come back with the “we’ve won more in the past 10 years” argument, i’ll come back with the famous Red Sox-fan argument-“We won it more recently”
I was just knocking the idea of Javy in the bullpen. Your comment had nothing to do with that though. Bitter?
No. I just read it as a silly/unnecessary comment.
As I did with yours
First, of all, a bonehead move by the Yankees. They would have gotten him as a FA anyways, and instead gave up their top prospect for him. Second, I’m really tired of the Yankees getting whoever they want, trade away their best prospects, and then just go out and sign Joe Mauer instead. A salary cap needs to be enforced in MLB.
Salary Cap? Really? That is the worst idea I have heard today. There is countless that the baseball has everything set up is far superior to any other sport.
Is it perfect? No. But a salary cap is a horrible idea.
a salary cap would never work, they would basically have to re draft the entire mlb
Yanks don’t want to lose in the post-season, especially at the hands of Lee. They can spare Montero due to positional blockage. The Yanks are doing everything they can to win the WS. Is this so hard to grasp?
Positional Blockage? Posada is getting old behind the plate and is a perfect candidate for the Yanks DH as soon as next year.
Unless you think Cervelli is better than Montero….
All indications are that Montero has no future as a C, but instead as a 1B, so yeah he’s blocked.
Because they traded away their best prospect fro someone they could have signed in the offseason as a FA.
Because they traded away their best prospect for someone they could have signed as a FA in the offseason.
plus they have cervelli who has not been that bad this year and there will be a number of catchers on the market next year, vmat, possibly aj from the sox, miguel olivo good ones out there
I don’t understand all of other teams’ fans b*thching about the Yankees with respect to acquiring Lee. All I’ve seen for days on end was that Lee was a rental, that he wasn’t worth prospect X, that the M’s were crazy for demanding a lot for him. I am going to pick on Twins fans particularly, because they seemed to be the most vocal when the rumors came out about the offer of Ramos and Hicks came out. Now the Yanks are involved, and are offering a consensus top 5 prospect, and everybody is crying about the big market Yanks buying another title. This is crap. Every other team could have ponied up and acquired Lee. But prior to the Yanks getting involved, fans of other teams were crying about wanting to hold onto their precious prospects…that Lee (a rental) wasn’t worth giving them up. Well, you should be happy! You get to hold onto your precious prospects while the Yanks (again) do what it takes to win another World Series. It is no wonder these guys win all of the time. Sometimes you have to take risks to win a World Series…when you (small market team) have a chance to win it, maybe you should trade that “can’t miss” propsect who actually has a chance to miss for the best or second best lefty in the game. Oh well, I guess you can just keep b*itching about the Yanks, right? Just so you know, this comes from an M’s fan who couldn’t care less about the Yanks.
LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE
Because no team, other than the Yankees, has a chance to take Lee, sign him to his 400 million dollar contract, then proceed to wait until Montero and Adams become All-Stars in Seattle and sign them each to their 400 million dollar contracts when they become free agents. It doesn’t matter if they give them up because chances are if they are good, the Yankees will end up with them in their primes anyways. This is the world we live in.
Lee has been somewhat vocal lately about the fact that he would have been open to a discussion of an extension with the M’s. The M’s FO decided not to pursue it. I think a team that acquired Lee might be able to convince him to sign with the team after the season (especially if he felt comfortable in his new surroundings). I don’t have evidence to back this up, but Lee strikes me as that type of guy. Maybe the Yanks realized this and thought they needed to jump in and not risk him liking it somewhere else. Good move by them. Other teams should have stepped up. Oh well, maybe Ramos will turn into the stud that you all think (where will he play though?) or maybe the Twins will end up trading him for something quite a bit less than Cliff Frickin’ Lee.
Ok, first of all, just because Lee says he is open to an extention with the Mariners, doesn’t mean they can afford to sign him to 20 million dollars a year.. That’s not how baseball works in cities other than the big apple.
Second, don’t start stereotyping Twins fans… I would have had no problem giving up Ramos for Lee. I have talked to a number of Twins fans who would love to give up prospects for Lee. But that doesn’t mean the Twins should get into a prospect bidding war with the Yankees over a guy who’s spot in the rotation they will have to replace after the season. What you don’t seem to understand is that teams other than the Yankees, Phillies, and Red Sox CANNOT continue to function by trading away their prospects for players who are expecting a big payday. Other small and middle market teams rely on prospects to fill holes because of financial restrictions. You are completely ignoring the financial aspect of baseball here.. which tells me you are most likely a fan of a larger market baseball team. Teams like the twins cannot just break the bank trading for a player who we they will need to replace after the season.. Guess where the replacement comes from……… THE MINOR LEAGUES! The Twins cannot just go out and buy another starting pitcher during Free Agency if Cliff Lee walks at the end of the year like the Yankees will be able to do. So while I completely agree that there is no guarantee with prospects, other teams have to hold on to them and hope they turn out so they can successfully function as a business.
Typical naivety of a large market fan..
Of course the Yankees don’t care about prospects, they will just buy developed players with their limitless payroll. I can’t stand the thought of my beloved Cliff Lee being a Yankee. I sincerely hope he won’t sign there when he is free!!!
why should they care about prospects? Its baseball there isnt a GM out there that would not trade a prospect for a former cy young winner….if you can get a pretty young great pitcher for some guys who you simply dont know if they will pan out. They could be the #1 over all pick, the top prospect and kill it in the minors and never pan out in the majors. Yes if the yankees would keep all thee guys they have worked on and gotten to be top rated yeah they would be a good team but they are following the rules of baseball get good young prospects and if you have a spot needed to be filled trade them
Yankees get another all star and the mets miss out again.. Omar is a joke and the Mets will not win a world series until they get rid of him.. I am a die hard mets fan and i do like RA dickey and Takashi but they arent any solution to a world series. Mets needed Lee but of course Omar screws another one up.. They will end up with that bum Lilly who has I think 3 wins on the season. and since its omar thats our GM roy oswalt is def out of the question.. PLEASE get rid of Omar!!
dont count wins into, dont forget he plays for the cubs who simply dont give him run support and dont play defense. looka t his other numbers he has actally beena pretty good pitcher this year…wins are not even close to a top stat when talking about pitchers, which is why they are looked at 4th maybe 5th when talking about the cy young award
Guess Oswalt is next to go. He can’t be far behind.
I’m no fan of the Yankees.
But…why the hate?
The Phillies and the Mariners both had a chance to tie Lee down to a long contract.
Lee made it fairly clear that he’d be open to a long stay in Philadelphia, and was rebuffed when he and his agent asked the Mariners about an extension. This guy has been treated like a piece of meat over the last year.
If the Yankees were the only team to both pony up the prospects AND offer him a long-term deal, then why hold it against them?
Who cares what Yankee HATERS thinkThis move by Cashman is about the Short and Long term success of the New York Yankees, his JOB. :)Short term, the Yankees can either move Vazquez in a deal for a bat or bullpen arm orHughes to the bullpen to strengthen it and Hughes is on an innings limitThe Yankees will need to rely on 4 starters in the 7 game series in the playoffs this year unlike last year when they only used 3, so its eitherSabathia, Burnett, Pettitte, Vazquez orSabathia, Lee, Burnett, PettitteLong term, Pettitte is a free agent and has been talking of retiring for 2 seasons now, this year he might actually not push it 1 more season, Vazquez is a free agent who the Yankees would likely not resignLee is a natural replacement as a lefty for Pettitte in the rotation for years to come. Yankee HATERS will always HATE, the Yankees don’t exist to make them happy, that is their own personal issues to resolve. Smart move by Cashman for the short and long term success of the Yankees. You don’t just walk away from getting one of the best pitchers in baseball when you can give up a position player you are deep at in Catchers.
hughes is one of their better pitchers i doubt they move him in the the pen, now i do agree they will try to move javier back to the NL for a bat
The yanks need to shut down Hughes somehow or he won’t be able to pitch in the postseason. They have a 175innings cap on him I think
I would be nervous to pitch hughes in the postseason anyway,I think this was a bad desicion by the Yankees they shouldve held on to montero and then signed Lee in the offseason.I see why they did it though they want to defensd their title and if Lee went to any other team in the Al its not a 100% guarentee.Im a Mets fan and here to say that mets fans who really wanted Lee should start crying to ownership Omar had plenty of time to offer up a good move to jack Z but didnt.Im happy the Mets didnt get him we wouldve had to give up an overhaul of prospects for him.Theyprobably will go after Oswalt or Lilly.I bet they wil trade for Oswalt in the end though,if his price comes down.Still Lilly is a good fit for this team
I would be nervous to pitch hughes in the postseason anyway,I think this was a bad desicion by the Yankees they shouldve held on to montero and then signed Lee in the offseason.I see why they did it though they want to defensd their title and if Lee went to any other team in the Al its not a 100% guarentee.Im a Mets fan and here to say that mets fans who really wanted Lee should start crying to ownership Omar had plenty of time to offer up a good move to jack Z but didnt.Im happy the Mets didnt get him we wouldve had to give up an overhaul of prospects for him.Theyprobably will go after Oswalt or Lilly.I bet they wil trade for Oswalt in the end though,if his price comes down.Still Lilly is a good fit for this team
Really? The yankees have such a hard on for players that exceed a salary of 10 plus million that they gave the braves Vicizino, one of the best prospects we have in our system. They have such a hard on for giving away their prospects without giving them a chance. Every player on the Yankees didn’t come out of their farm system. They got them from free agency. They have such a hard on to win the world series they throw their prospects under the bus to make sure they always have the best possible. Hell lets just give Pujols, Ryan Braun, Prince Fielder, and numerous other superstars to the yankees because they will get them in free agency anyway.
The yankees are the worst organization in baseball and have the ethical compass of a hooker in Central Park
Hey bro, you sure have an attachment to hard ons but I’m sure that’s another story. 13 out of the 25 man roster come from the farm system, compare that to other teams. Acquiring Lee is through a trade, not free agency. What exactly is unethical about putting the best team on the field? Your hate is clouding your judgement.
i agree i hate the yankees but if my rangers could put up 200 million a year in salary id want an all-star team too 😛
until we put a salary cap on baseball they are allowed to do that if they can. cant complain about it
Ohhhhhhhh how i hate the Yankees.
Its amazing that there are teams in the AL always willing to help out the Yankees. Why would seattle trade Lee to the Yankees. Seattle should have done what the Twins did with Santana and trade Lee out of the league. Seattle pretty much just told the fans there, that they dont intend to compete for the series until CC and Lee retire anyways, being now all roads to the sereis will now go through NY. And the stupid Phillies will probably give them Worth for Vasquez.
Could be worse. At least you’re not a Jays/Orioles/Rays fan.
OMG!!! I never thought of that before! I mean, what you said would be totally stupid if there was a time where players could get their AGENTS to FREE them up from their teams after their contracts expire and go to other teams. haha, if such a thing existed they would call it something silly like FREE AGENCY
I think I’m going to get sick.
With all of the talk early on about the Twins being the front runner in the Cliff Lee Sweepstakes, I kind of feel like the kid who just spent his allowance on some candy and then the neighborhood bully stole that candy and then kicked me in the nuts. A side note, this neighborhood bully’s daddy is Willy Wonka!
Could the Twins for once…once in my lifetime go and get a legitimate free agent at the deadline to improve this team?
As a Tigers fan, I am happy that it looks like he is going to the Yankees and not the Twins. And if the Twins had sign him this week, the Tigers would have probably had to face him this weekend which would have sucked since we just saw him him on Sunday when Seattle was in town. Having to see Lee twice in a week in a non-playoff situation would have sucked.
Proposal: Mets offer Jennry Mejia, Fermando Martinez and a single-A prospect to Houston for Roy Oswalt; Astros agree to pay $7.5 million (half) his annual salary.
Why is everyone hating on the Yanks? They didn’t use their $ this time. They used prospects to get the deal done. Doesn’t everyone slam and accuse them for always “buying” their championships? This is a legitimate trade by having the best prospect package available in Seattle’s eyes, not money, to trade for one of the best pitchers in the game. No?
yes your right. i just think they are going to trade prospects away because they have zero need for them, they can go buy any catcher in the market every year because they have zero budget limitations.
i mean realistically they can just buy a catcher and wait around for someone like yadier molina and they could hold an all-star game of yankees vs. NL
It’s probably the idea that they don’t NEED Cliff Lee to win a championship this year, they are good enough without him. Also, if I was a Yankee fan – I wouldn’t be happy about giving up Montero regardless of the fact that he has no position. But that’s just me.
And they wouldn’t have that money if people didn’t go the games and buy their merchandise. People always ragging on the Yankees for having this big pay roll. They wouldn’t have that payroll if they didn’t bring in huge revenue from their fans. If you want to see the Yankees crash and burn, tell their fans to stop rooting for them, going to the games, and buying merchandise with their logo. I am sure that will go over real well.
your totally right, but i cant stop it, like i said, eventually it will get SO out of hand the other 29 teams will decide that it is too ridiculous and they will make a salary cap..
i feel like putting it at like 130 million is fair. maybe 140..
i love how my rangers a winning with a third of the salary, but if they could spend another 20 they could take the yankess..
Because whatever team you follow, you are at the mercy of the ownership. You follow and become fans of teams because of their history, players, geographical location, whatever your preference is, but to the majority of fans out there, the ownership is a bi-product. When you follow a team like the Yankees who are known for spending whatever it takes to win, it is probably pretty nice. They can also out bid owners from any other club in the league and they continue to do so, year in and year out.
If you look at it over the past ten years there are probably 3 teams in the entire league who have taken that mentality, Yankees, BoSox and maybe the Halos, but that is about it. I cannot due a thing about the ownership of the Twins, just like you can’t do a thing about the ownership of the Yankees, but that makes it all the more frustrating if you are on the short end of that stick.
Who said Lee was a rental. I think the Yanks will sign him long term…and after reading some other websites the yanks have better catching prospects and they didnt need Adams with Cano at 2nd for a long time…
Cash is great defensively and hit well for the Yanks when he played for them..this was just an observation, not meaning yes go sign Cash..
I think Cervelli is a very good player ..and has performed very well as a Yankee..
I’ve made a few comments saying that I don’t agree with giving up Montero for a rental in Cliff Lee, but after reading almost all the comments, I’ve started to come around to the idea. Montero might become a superstar, but it doesn’t look like he’ll be a superstar C, so he truly didn’t have a spot on this team, and if Cashman can flip Vazquez for a bullpen arm and a decent prospect, and we end up winning the WS this year, I will applaud this move and eat my earlier posts.
It’s nice to have hindsight.
Not so much hindsight as I’ve changed my mind, and really warmed up to it after reading multiple arguments for both sides.
Gotta love the parity in baseball Selig keeps chiming about.
its not that everyone gets an even chance, its just eliminates the idea that one or two teams can go above and beyond everyone else because they can afford to.
i mean if Cuban would buy the rangers, we would do the same thing.
An equalization of team’s schedules has to come first.
So two people rip apart your comment and you go and make the same comment later?
Wow, you’re mature.
Is three Left Handed Starting Pitchers too many?
Don’t get me wrong we are talking about three premiere LH starters.
if i have CC,Lee,pettitte, Kershaw, and Cj Wilson id run 5 leftys …
actually yankees, come take my idea, you have can keep keep burnett but trade for kershaw too and have a ridiculous rotation. get halladay or kershaw/lincecum/grenkie
could you imagine CC, Lee, Burnett,Pettite, and one of those 4.
wow.
“get halladay or kershaw/lincecum/grienke”
yeah, with that loaded farm system of yours?
oh wait….
“get halladay or kershaw/lincecum/grienke”
yeah, with that loaded farm system of yours?
oh wait….
Thanks for not over paying for a rental Jockety! Would have loved to seen Lee in a Reds uni but not at the cost of our top prospects.
Zach Mcallister to…..why….
eh, he’s a bit overrated. Not sure if he would have been able to have success pitching in Yankee Stadium.
Probably because he’s a MOR pitcher at best. Don’t get me wrong, I’m actually a huge McAllister fan, but he’s really not all that much to lose, and his numbers will look a lot better in Safeco than in NYS.
the only home grown players making an impact are Hughes,cano,mo and pettite on the Yankees. Your home grown bullpen sucks! Jeter is not that good. your non home grown players are why you win swisher,cc,aj,tex,arod even vazquez has been pitching good. you have some good home grown players but don’t act like your bought players don’t contribute! I’d say they do more than your homegrown players! I hate the Yankees btw!!
Swisher- Trade- bought low and it paid offA-Rod- Trade- Gave up Alfonso Soriano, who had some huge seasons before that and was home grownVazquez- Trade- Gave up Melky Cabrera (home grown) and many other prospectsThey signed CC, AJ, and Teix because they had a ton of money coming off the books, not because they just “buy anyone they want.” If Giambi, Mussina, etc weren’t all coming off the books the same year, there would have been no way they could have afforded much more than CC most likely. Stop whining, maybe the reason a team like the Pirates or Orioles isn’t ever that good is that they are poorly run as well? They practically have their entire payroll subsidized by the Yankees, and they still refuse to spend it on the players. That’s a far bigger problem, don’t you think?
And by the way, the Yankees have a ton more than the players you listed making impacts.
Posada, Pettitte, Rivera, Cano, Hughes, Joba, Robertson, Aceves (injured), Jeter, Gardner
10 players, that’s almost half of their roster right there. They also have Pena and Cervelli on the bench, cheap home grown reserves. Cervelli has a ton of RBI for them and filled in well when Posada was on the DL.
Do you know how many of the 25 players currently on the Yankees roster were “bought” that weren’t already from within or acquired using prospects and such? 7, but 4 of those players consist of Gaudin, Park, Moseley, and Thames, none of whom are major players on the team.
It’s easier to “grow” and, more importantly, keep players with a seemingly bottomless wallet. MLB is flawed in that poor team often can’t sign (or draft) certain top picks and a large percentage of the players are signed as International players.
Sure, the Yankees use some of their money on decent management type and other teams with deep wallet has struggled. However, you can’t honestly deny that the Yankees has quite a bit of advantage over mid-market teams.
Swisher- Trade- bought low and it paid offA-Rod- Trade- Gave up Alfonso Soriano, who had some huge seasons before that and was home grownVazquez- Trade- Gave up Melky Cabrera (home grown) and many other prospectsThey signed CC, AJ, and Teix because they had a ton of money coming off the books, not because they just “buy anyone they want.” If Giambi, Mussina, etc weren’t all coming off the books the same year, there would have been no way they could have afforded much more than CC most likely. Stop whining, maybe the reason a team like the Pirates or Orioles isn’t ever that good is that they are poorly run as well? They practically have their entire payroll subsidized by the Yankees, and they still refuse to spend it on the players. That’s a far bigger problem, don’t you think?
And by the way, the Yankees have a ton more than the players you listed making impacts.
Posada, Pettitte, Rivera, Cano, Hughes, Joba, Robertson, Aceves (injured), Jeter, Gardner
10 players, that’s almost half of their roster right there. They also have Pena and Cervelli on the bench, cheap home grown reserves. Cervelli has a ton of RBI for them and filled in well when Posada was on the DL.
Do you know how many of the 25 players currently on the Yankees roster were “bought” that weren’t already from within or acquired using prospects and such? 7, but 4 of those players consist of Gaudin, Park, Moseley, and Thames, none of whom are major players on the team.
Woah as a sox fan I’m sick to my stomach. Cliff lee>>>>> sabathia. He’s gonna win his second cy young in three years too.
They would have gotten him in FA though so I’m a little surprised they’re giving up 3 top prospects. This is even worse than the yanks getting halladay
haha dont make them eat your words and find a way to get him too.. they always can afford another good arm 😛
The Yankees will just be silly now. Sigh..
Sox have even better prospects than yanks so I’m surprised there’s been not even an inkling of interest rumored by the red sox in acquiring cliff lee, if not even to up his value for the rays/yanks
Why should the Sox have gone for him? Not like they need a starting pitcher more than any other position.
A rotation of healthy and rested Beckett, Lee, Lester, Buchholz, and Lackey could win a world series even with Pittsburgh’s lineup on the field for Christ sakes
Not to sound arrogant or mean, but no Sox hitting prospect compares to Jesus Montero.
Wow. If the rumors are true that the M’s are getting Montero, Adams and McAllister and that they lessened their trade demands this morning, I wonder who Jack Z originally asked for – Hughes? Would LOVE this trade as an M’s fan, but don’t want to get too excited until I hear it announced.
I really really really hate the Yankees. Baseball NEEDS a salary cap.
Another one, eh? When will you people learn? =/
Nevermind the fact that it’s a trade and nobody’s buying anything here…not yet, anyways. Must suck being a fan of a small-market team, eh?
Really, not adding another large contract doesn’t count as buying a team?
Vazquez to the White Sox.
how about this next move if the lee deal gets done… Vasquez to the reds/phillies/mets/other for prospects, then those prospects plus another piece (maybe even joba, if that’s necessary), to the royals for joakim soria in the 8th inning role
ahhh…no.
basically ur saying that vasquez’s equivalent in prospects is worth maybe the second best closer in baseball who is locked up till like 2014.
god why do people only see trades from only one end.
uhh. i said + joba
the same joba that has like a 5 era right now?
the same joba that has like a 5 era right now?
uhh. i said + joba
ahhh…no.
basically ur saying that vasquez’s equivalent in prospects is worth maybe the second best closer in baseball who is locked up till like 2014.
god why do people only see trades from only one end.
Yeah I’m sure the Royals would be all over that!!!
lol
Yeah I’m sure the Royals would be all over that!!!
lol
what use to the royals have for the second best closer in baseball right now
what use to the royals have for the second best closer in baseball right now
The Yankees make it hard for any small market team to compete. If it wasn’t for the Yankees, players wouldn’t be demanding such a high salary. Baseball, and every other sport, isn’t about creating an all-star team to win a championship. The Yankees don’t need to sign every good player to be a good team. I guess money really doesn’t bring you happiness, just look at the Yankees. They still want Cliff Lee even though they have a pretty good rotation.
Baseball needs a salary cap.
Ok. Have your salary cap. Are you prepared for the players to strike and hold out until the cap is removed/made high enough that it makes little if any difference at all?
Ok. Have your salary cap. Are you prepared for the players to strike and hold out until the cap is removed/made high enough that it makes little if any difference at all?
They want Cliff Lee to make sure they can lock up a World Championship.If He gets traded to a team like the Rangers they are an immediate threat to their world championship..Lee can always beat up on the Yanks when he is on another ballclub.I think the Yankees are overdoing it a bit ,yes but theres no reason to hate on them.They are just trying to organize a winning ballclub.Im a Mets fan and I would have to agree with that I would not trust a pitcher like hughes in the postseason,some young pitchers can blowup under pressure.The yankees made a smart move by supposedly adding Lee.The Mets had plenty of time to get Lee if they reaslly wanted too and they didnt.Its not the Yankees fault that certain ownerships cant pull the trigger.I like this because now maybe Vasquez can come to the Mets with Lilly.I doubt that would happen though because I believe the Yankees also did this to setup a Jayson werth trade with Philly.But it could happen.
They want Cliff Lee to make sure they can lock up a World Championship.If He gets traded to a team like the Rangers they are an immediate threat to their world championship..Lee can always beat up on the Yanks when he is on another ballclub.I think the Yankees are overdoing it a bit ,yes but theres no reason to hate on them.They are just trying to organize a winning ballclub.Im a Mets fan and I would have to agree with that I would not trust a pitcher like hughes in the postseason,some young pitchers can blowup under pressure.The yankees made a smart move by supposedly adding Lee.The Mets had plenty of time to get Lee if they reaslly wanted too and they didnt.Its not the Yankees fault that certain ownerships cant pull the trigger.I like this because now maybe Vasquez can come to the Mets with Lilly.I doubt that would happen though because I believe the Yankees also did this to setup a Jayson werth trade with Philly.But it could happen.
Overkill anyone?
Overkill anyone?
I’m glad I made you laugh. The Yankees are definetely on the juice. They are cheaters.
I’m glad I made you laugh. The Yankees are definetely on the juice. They are cheaters.
Why would a Salary Cap affect the players? They don’t care who pays them as long as they get paid. The salary cap would create a level playing field for all 30 teams. The Yankees and all other big market teams monopolize the league.
There is already a level playing field in baseball. And yes, they do care when they feel like they are being underpaid.If the league was being monopolized, then PLEASE, explain to me why the Diamondbacks, Angels, Marlins, White Sox, Cardinals, Phillies (i count them because they became big market after winning the world series-they were pretty mid-upper mid at best) have won a World Series in the past 10 years. Hang on, tell me why the Giants, Astros, Tigers, Rays, Rockies, Cardinals twice have also participated in the World Series?Yes, I didn’t include the Yanks and Red Sox because you want proof of a level playing field. To take macfan’s post from a few pages ago:YankeesRaysRed SoxTigersWhite SoxTwinsTexasAngelsAtlanta NY Mets PhiladelphiaCincinattiSt. LouisSan DiegoColoradoLos AngelesSan FranciscoAll of those teams are currently in contention. All but one (Texas, unless I’m mistaken) of those teams have seen the playoffs AT LEAST once in the past 10 years.You can sit there and whine and moan about how there’s no parity in baseball this, and the Yankees are ruining baseball that. Truth be told, the luxury tax and the Yankees are two of the reasons that teams like the Royals and Pirates are able to afford running a team.I’ll tell you what. Take this one to the bank. BEFORE Free Agency, which gave baseball some more level of parity (cue you saying BUT THE YANKEES SIGN EVERYONE and cue me saying shut up that is completely wrong.), which began in 1976, the Yankees won 20 World Series championships. After? 7. Since their first championship in 1923 until 1975, that’s 52 years. 1976 to 2009 is 33 years. 20 championships in 52 years before players could pursue other playing opportunities, 7 in 33 years after that. Before Free Agency: They won 38% of the World Series played, after: 21%. Yes that was excessive of me, but I am sick and tired of morons saying that a salary cap is good for baseball and that there is no parity.
There is already a level playing field in baseball. And yes, they do care when they feel like they are being underpaid.If the league was being monopolized, then PLEASE, explain to me why the Diamondbacks, Angels, Marlins, White Sox, Cardinals, Phillies (i count them because they became big market after winning the world series-they were pretty mid-upper mid at best) have won a World Series in the past 10 years. Hang on, tell me why the Giants, Astros, Tigers, Rays, Rockies, Cardinals twice have also participated in the World Series?Yes, I didn’t include the Yanks and Red Sox because you want proof of a level playing field. To take macfan’s post from a few pages ago:YankeesRaysRed SoxTigersWhite SoxTwinsTexasAngelsAtlanta NY Mets PhiladelphiaCincinattiSt. LouisSan DiegoColoradoLos AngelesSan FranciscoAll of those teams are currently in contention. All but one (Texas, unless I’m mistaken) of those teams have seen the playoffs AT LEAST once in the past 10 years.You can sit there and whine and moan about how there’s no parity in baseball this, and the Yankees are ruining baseball that. Truth be told, the luxury tax and the Yankees are two of the reasons that teams like the Royals and Pirates are able to afford running a team.I’ll tell you what. Take this one to the bank. BEFORE Free Agency, which gave baseball some more level of parity (cue you saying BUT THE YANKEES SIGN EVERYONE and cue me saying shut up that is completely wrong.), which began in 1976, the Yankees won 20 World Series championships. After? 7. Since their first championship in 1923 until 1975, that’s 52 years. 1976 to 2009 is 33 years. 20 championships in 52 years before players could pursue other playing opportunities, 7 in 33 years after that. Before Free Agency: They won 38% of the World Series played, after: 21%. Yes that was excessive of me, but I am sick and tired of morons saying that a salary cap is good for baseball and that there is no parity.
Why would a Salary Cap affect the players? They don’t care who pays them as long as they get paid. The salary cap would create a level playing field for all 30 teams. The Yankees and all other big market teams monopolize the league.
the longer this goes on the more I feel that Jack Z will back away from this deal and look for more.
the longer this goes on the more I feel that Jack Z will back away from this deal and look for more.
for more…your kidding right? We are getting an awesome top 10 prospect for trading away a guy that was going to walk after this year anyway
Michael your right but we all know Jack Z could change his mind in a heartbeat
for more…your kidding right? We are getting an awesome top 10 prospect for trading away a guy that was going to walk after this year anyway
I agree with you, Sean. The Yankees don’t need Lee to win another championship. The Rangers/Rays/Twins, etc. need an ace. The Yankees take opportunities away from smaller market teams.
The Rays have an Ace, his name is David Price. The Rangers and Twins, they need an ace.
The Rays have an Ace, his name is David Price. The Rangers and Twins, they need an ace.
I agree with you, Sean. The Yankees don’t need Lee to win another championship. The Rangers/Rays/Twins, etc. need an ace. The Yankees take opportunities away from smaller market teams.
Lee and Sabathia are best friends… If it wasn’t now, then Lee would have been coming here in the offseason.
Lee and Sabathia are best friends… If it wasn’t now, then Lee would have been coming here in the offseason.
Argh….the Yankees have 5 good starters, why do they need Lee?
Argh….the Yankees have 5 good starters, why do they need Lee?
IM surprised no ones really mentioned the fact that the Yankees are just buying their talent and with Cliff Lee another world series title T___T. SO UNFAIR, omg I’d rather see Lee go to the Dodgers. With that big an offense, in that tiny ballpark with two lefty CY young winners + Petite in a starting rotation…Baseball Fans (Excluding Yankee supporters) we’re effed for the next 5 years
IM surprised no ones really mentioned the fact that the Yankees are just buying their talent and with Cliff Lee another world series title T___T. SO UNFAIR, omg I’d rather see Lee go to the Dodgers. With that big an offense, in that tiny ballpark with two lefty CY young winners + Petite in a starting rotation…Baseball Fans (Excluding Yankee supporters) we’re effed for the next 5 years
The Yankees don’t NEED Lee, which is why i’m really indifferent about this deal. Burnett and Vazquez are coming around(hopefully), CC and Pettitte are still dealing, and Hughes is Hughes. The offense is fine for now, and let’s not forget this club is a second half team. If this trade happens, the Yankees have still got Austin Romine in the minors, Adams is blocked by Cano, and McAllister is probably a couple years away. All in All, trade or no trade, the Yankees are still looking good to make a deep run in the playoffs.
The Yankees don’t NEED Lee, which is why i’m really indifferent about this deal. Burnett and Vazquez are coming around(hopefully), CC and Pettitte are still dealing, and Hughes is Hughes. The offense is fine for now, and let’s not forget this club is a second half team. If this trade happens, the Yankees have still got Austin Romine in the minors, Adams is blocked by Cano, and McAllister is probably a couple years away. All in All, trade or no trade, the Yankees are still looking good to make a deep run in the playoffs.
This is a great trade for both clubs if it gets done. The Yanks get, possibly, the best LHP in baseball in order to help them win back-to-back WS. The M’s get their future first baseman (no way he sticks at catcher) that they’ve been looking for a long time, and additional minor league death. Great trade.
This is a great trade for both clubs if it gets done. The Yanks get, possibly, the best LHP in baseball in order to help them win back-to-back WS. The M’s get their future first baseman (no way he sticks at catcher) that they’ve been looking for a long time, and additional minor league death. Great trade.
prospects don’t mean a thing until proven themselves in the majors. Its always 50/50 chance.
prospects don’t mean a thing until proven themselves in the majors. Its always 50/50 chance.
Let the Dan Haren rumors start to fly… Rangers probably can’t afford the salary hit, but the Twins? Tigers? Cardinals? Phillies?
I’m putting my loyalty to the Tigers aside on this one, but IMO, they are the front runners for Haren.
Let the Dan Haren rumors start to fly… Rangers probably can’t afford the salary hit, but the Twins? Tigers? Cardinals? Phillies?
Seems like a bunch of flawed prospects for an ace plus 2 prospects if they decide to let him walk after the year is up. Typical NYY steal.
So are you implying that Montero, despite some struggles at his first go through in Triple A (though he’s hitting over .300 over his last 20 games or so), doesn’t make this worth it for the M’s. Wow. Typical blind yankee hater.
When you’re giving up two prospects with positional questions and a #3 starter for an ace I question whether the other team is getting the correct value. When you consider type A free agency it is a clear steal. If you are going to trade an ace, you better make sure you get a potential ace in return. Not a filler guy and 2 guys, no matter how well they can hit, who may not be positional players at the ML level.
Latest update is the Mariners are backing off. For now that is…
this might just scare other teams(twins) to step it up and make this deal.
hahahah this is great
So was it the Rays or the Sox that jumped in front of the Yankees?
I knew this thing would fall through.
I really REALLY hope the Rays swoop in and steal Lee from the Yanks!
I’m not typically into conspiracies, but Jack Z. has been very tight lipped about this whole process until today. Is it possible that the M’s started leaking false information to get a team, like say the Twins to increase their offer?
Bum, bum, bummmmmmmmmm.
Who is the mystery team? That’s what I wanna know. I don’t think it’s the Twins. Rays? Wow. that would be crazy.
Good. Now the Yanks won’t be giving up Montero’s bat.
EDIT: Forgive me if I proceed to laugh at any other deal unless said team is the Rangers and they’re giving up Smoak and Schneppers.
Exactly where do you expect Montero to play?
There’s no point in hoarding a guy who is of no use to you if you can trade him for somebody who is.
DH. Outfield. Take your pick. Probably a corner outfield spot-preferably right, where his potential subpar fielding could be masked by a smaller area to field.Heck, they can have him split time with Teix and have them alternate between DH and first.
Could try moving Swish to left and trading off Brett. I love Brett and all, but I’m one of those guys who doesn’t put stock into a slap hitter with speed being productive for too long. Trade him while we can now, ya know?
..Catcher
No. His defense at catcher is horrific. We’d be better off putting A-Rod in catching gear and having him do it.
Wade Davis and B.J. Upton for Cliff Lee. That would be awesome!
Exactly what I was thinking, except probably wont work. We could throw in another prospect or two, not great ones, but solid ones.
I’m sure some GM following all this called Seattle and said ‘we can do better than the deal floating around on the Internet.’
as a jays fan, i’d love to see this trade go through…it’s likely inevitable that Lee ends up there at the end of the year anyway, so i’d love to see a chunk of their future traded away while the Jays aren’t competitive yet.
I’m a Jays fan too, and I’d hate to see it happen.
CC and Lee would be good for a few more years, Hughes may very well be the real deal, and you can bet they’d go out and pick up another ace when they needed to. Getting Lee just makes it harder for the Jays now AND in the future. I’d far rather they kept Montero who, clearly, isn’t of any use to them in the foreseeable future.
Besides, I don’t see a team giving up their best prospects unless they get a negotiating window with Lee for an extension.
Do you think Ruben Amaro Jr has his head in his hands right now?
Finally someone stop the Evil empire of getting cliff lee.
Please Twins don’t be the aggressive team in this. I thought the price was too high on the rumored Ramos + Hicks. We need more than an ace so it’s not worth it for a rental.
Dude, it’s a game. Teams have small windows to make a move and go for it all. I for one am sick of being “just” a playoff team. That has been the problem with the Twins for years, we keep hanging on to our prospects and for what, them to hit their prime and then we can no longer afford them and trade them away anyway. Screw that.
Twins do what it takes to get Lee, I want to win this year. We are lucky enough to have 2 world series titles. Twins33, how long has the Twins franchise been around??? Why should we continually wait around for prospects to mature? All that equals out to is a dog fight for the division every year and a first round exit to the Yankees who had the balls to go out and get that guy that we refused to trade away a prospect for.
50 years, that’s how long it’s been around. I would want Lee if I believed that all we need is an ace, but we need 2-3 pitchers to shore up the SP. We have Pavano and Liriano and three guys who can only pitch in home games. If we switch Duensing to SP then I believe we could have three guys.
Our offense still hasn’t clicked and could end up being a big disappointment come seasons end. You want to go for it this year, fail, and not even be in the playoffs for the next few years after that? It seems like a waste when it feels like we’re not that close. We have to prove that we can beat AL East teams first and we haven’t done that this season. Lee might give us one win against those teams each, but that’s it.
You have to KNOW that the Twins are going to make the playoffs this year. I believe that they are better than the Tigers and White Sox, but while we are better, we’re the ones that keep falling in the standings. I don’t think Lee is enough to recover from that. We’re not only an ace away. We’re probably two pitchers and a hitter away, at least imo.
It’s very hard to compare that Yanks and Twins to each other. Yes, the Yankees are willing to give up prospects, but their payroll and revenue is A TON more than the Twins. The Twins can’t afford to make big mistakes like the Yankees can.
I’d do the deal if Lee stayed, but if he doesn’t Ramos + Hicks is an overpayment. Ramos is nothing to us, but Hicks is regarded as the player with the greatest upside in the entire organization. People expect him to be a stud. Cuddyer and Kubel aren’t going to be around forever and Hicks is the best OF prospect we have.
Like I said, if we could extend Lee (which the Twins can’t afford otherwise they’ll be bumping up the payroll to $120 next year) then I’d do it. Otherwise, I don’t think it incrases our chances that much more. Lee only pitches every fifth day.
The how long they have been around was more of a question to prove a point. I understand the payrolls in this league and that the Yankees are number 1 when it comes to that. My point is, why do we, year after year build up our prospects (the majority of the time) only for us to say, sorry we can’t afford you now. I truly love the Twins model of running a franchise, but there are times that you have to take risks and this is one of them. Who is to even say that Hicks and Ramos would work out. Hell, judging from the shotty reporting, whose to say that the Twins offered up both of those guys anyway. Could you part with a Ramos, Slowey, Plouffe for Lee?
Besides, Billy Smith has to do something to keep the $184 million man happy.
The Twins, for the most part, don’t have the “we can’t afford our own guys” problem anymore. The Metrodome was the main reason for that. Yes, it may happen from time to time, but I doubt it happens even half as often now.
Yes, I could almost easily part with Ramos, Slowey & Plouffe for Lee. My biggest problem is having guys like Hicks, Gibson & Sano’s name coming up (Sano hasn’t been mentioned).
A concern with parting with a SP is that the Twins could “possibly” have a rotation of Liriano, Baker, Blackburn, Manship & Swarzak next year. The thought of that almost makes me want to hurl. That doesn’t even look like a rotation that could win a division (our rotation now barely looks like it could win a division). I know they’d probably put Duensing in there before one of the other two, at least I hope they would, but it still doesn’t look all that great.
The biggest difference between your opinion and mine is that you think we’re close to a WS championship. I don’t. Who have we even beaten this year that is a good team? Phillies and Angels. That’s it. We haven’t beaten the Rays or Yankees. We did a little better against the Red Sox but that was when they were sucking (so was the Angels series)
Lee changes a few games, not the fact that our entire team can’t beat the big boys. We have most of the key pieces in place, but not all of them. Lee would help with this season, but then we’re back to square one or worse…most likely worse.
I agree to an extent. I think their line-up is in place to make a run, but who would have thought that their entire rotation would fail to this point? If our starters can turn their seasons around and then add Lee to that equation we are a serious team. Not to mention, Lee would be a shot in the arm to this franchise.
Just my opinion.
The rotation is usually worse to much worse in away games, so I guess it’s really not all that surprising to me.
Baker is back and forth inconsistent. He throws too many pitches and that high fastball always kills him. If they can’t hit it, they foul it off and wait for him to make a mistake-which he usually does.
Slowey’s wrist pins could be messing with him, but he has always been bad in away games (I know he’s still kind of new to the ML level). His pinpoint control seems to be gone.
Blackburn is a big game pitcher, but most people think he’s not going to last very long with his extreme lack of ability in striking out guys. He’s somewhere way, way near the bottom in being able to strike guys out and usually those players don’t last long in the majors. You rely way too much on defense, he’s even worse than Silva in K’ing guys. And most people hated Silva.
Finally, someone stopped the mariners from getting Jesus!!
Miami already traded Beasley. Have fun in South beach Cliff Lee.
Jack Z is sneakier than Ari Gold. It ends tonight.
Yes! Ari is by far my favorite character.
The mets are going to get him. Thole, Menjia, Wilmer Flores and Chris Carter or nick evans
Only way the Mets beat the Montero offer is if they have Davis included in a deal and I just don’t see that happening.
Wow. If Seattle walked away from Montero, Adams AND McAllister, what the hell do they think they’re gonna get?
That means whoever came in came in with a better hitting prospect than Montero…
That means (imo) Desmond Jennings or Domonic Brown.
If Amaro trades Brown he should be fired on the spot
LOL @ Jack Z not taking Montero. Who cares what the other prospects are really.
Although I will say this.. if he gets Justin Smoak straight up for Lee… I’d take it and ruN!
I wonder if jerkoffs like Heyman and Rosenthal trying to essential be the guy yelling ‘FIRST’ in a new thread made this negotiation out to be more than it was? Were they ever close to a deal? Probably not.
Miguel Cabrera-Cliff Lee. Straight up.
you might have to intoxicate dombrowski before that happens. even then he might have enough sanity to reject that.
Sherman is saying it is Texas that came in last minute…..
Joel Sherman is the one who started all this crap!!! Let me guess, ole “I wear a rug” Heyman jumps all over this tidbit too
For the Rangers it is Lee or nothing. They can’t manage the contracts of Oswalt or Haren.
Hmm, if it’s the Rangers is has to be a package centered around Smoak I would think.
The bar was set by NYY. I’m sure someone will make a desperation attempt now that everyone realizes it will cost the moon to get Lee. And I am quite sure someone will pay higher than Montero and Adams + prospect. I’m thinking the Rangers offered Smoak or budged on their stance about their top prospects. They are the only ones I can really see being able to beat the Yankees offer and keeping Lee out of NY helps them out significantly.
why would they trade Lee within thier divsion that would be dumb.
I think the Reds are the dark horse in the Lee sweepstakes. They have a wealth of prospects that are blocked.
Teams don’t care to trade within the division for a half year rental like Lee.
Ms are out of it this year, and Texas wont resign him. No danger there.
Now the RANGERS might think twice, because Smoak could haunt them for a while, but they probably are so excited to be in a position to win they will just cross that bridge when they get there.
It wouldn’t be dumb when Seattle is already 56 1/2 games out of first place and not looking like they’re going to compete for several years
This trade is starting to remind me of that haul that Atlanta gave up for Mark Teixeria that helped make the Rangers system so deep.
The Mariners aren’t contending so renting Lee to the Rangers while draining their farm system would be a very good thing for the Ms’.
Cliff lee’s soap opera
yes! anyone but the yankees, please!
crap
FUUUCK!
Heh, strange thing, baseball. Teams are clambering over each other to offer up their best prospects for half a season of Lee, whereas everybody was trying to short-change the Jays for a full 12 – 18 months of Roy Halladay.
This one I’ll back you on. It really is a shame. It’s like Roy Halladay is the metaphorical b*tch of MLB. Heck, look at the Phils-they trade for him and can’t even provide him the run support he desperately wants.
(I’m aware of injuries, but still)
Lol, I really hope the Rangers sign him, but I think they will gut their entire system for him. Their offer has to be pretty good if they turned down the Yanks proposed deal which was light years better than what they’ve given away for Lee.
Nah, the Rangers have the best farm system in baseball (arguably, of course) courtesy of my Braves. They have plenty of pieces to deal.
The Yankees do not need to read at this time, it will take Texas and yanks the free agency. Maintain a fine young hitter
Brett Myers and Jeff Keppinger for Jesus Montero and Manny Bounelous
Anybody know the Rangers farm system? Are they capable of making a better package than what already has been proposed?
Oh and I’m guessing the Yankees deal is off the table, though I could be wrong.
Definitely. The Rangers can’t offer as good of a catcher, but outfielders, pitchers and big bats…oh yeah. I laughed at what the Yankees offered. One top prospect and a couple of others…I figure the Rangers could blow that away with 4-5 players/prospects at least and still not destroy their farm system. Not to sneeze at the Yankees offer, but I would be surprised if the Yankees offer more talent in that package than what the Rangers could give the Mariners out of desperation.
Absolutely. They’re stacked.
They are stacked with talent. Stacked I tell ya.
Ah…this is the Hot Stove at its best. Seeing updates left and right and then seeing it all go for naught and then the whole dynamic of the story completely changes. This is why I get on MLBTR.
I actually am not 100% behind the Rangers giving up a ton of young talent for Lee, but I am getting caught up in the excitement and the buyer’s remorse wouldn’t hit me til tomorrow…plus, any chance to take away somebody the Yankees were trying to add to their ringer roster. GO RANGERS!!!!!!
As a Mariners fan all this drama is pretty fun to watch play out. JackZ must have a blue tooth on each ear and one on his nose. 🙂
As a Mariners fan with tickets to Cliff Lee vs The Yankees tonight, I just hope the negotiations continue until tomorrow.
LOL. I feel your pain. 🙁
I hope he goes to the Rangers they don’t exactly make me nervous with or without Lee. Also with MLB running them and their ownership in flux, highly unlikely Lee signs there long term. So he will still be on the marketWith Pettitte possibly retiring and Vazquez likely not to be resigned Yankees will be all in should Lee be on the market at free agency. Go get him Texas, please, give away your system to rent him.
I agree
They don’t? They have the best lineup in baseball.
You must not have paid much attention to them this year. They seem like they are for real and the farm system is deep.
its not like Chris Davis and Chad Tracy dont look like possible 1st basemen. and unless they are trading 2 of Perez,Holland,Schepplers,Beaven they will be fine on pitching. Smoak,Ramirez/salty, Kiker, Main… thats my call…
Main was traded for Bengie, wasn’t he?
He is going to the Rangers. They have to have called and offered Smoak once they saw the deal with the Yanks was almost complete. Look for Smoke, Salty and one or two other prospects for Lee.
Salty has zero value.
I think Smoak straight up gets it done (as it should).
I agree. Salty has zero value to most, but the M’s REALLY like him for some reason.
It will be more than Smoak straight up. It would have to beat the Yankee’s offer and Montero is considered a better prospect than Smoak.
No way straight up. It will take Smoak as the centerpiece and a couple of lesser prospects.
hahahahaha it doesn’t go with the NYY good.
Thank you for that intelligently written response Golem!
Smoak???? LOL The Rangers would be really stupid to do this.
We’ve got Chris Davis in the farm. They both project to be nearly the same player. I wouldn’t lose any sleep trading Smoak+Salty for Lee.
Smoak is a switch hitter, and I would place a rather decent sized bet that he is the better out of the two “similar” bats. I don’t know why people think Salty is going in the trade. As a throw in? Ok. But nothing more. The guy still can’t figure out how to throw the ball back to the pitcher!
He’s been able to throw the ball back to the pitcher for like 2 months now lol. And no, Salty is not a throw in. For some reason or another, the M’s are really high on Salty.
Oh, I stand corrected. I was talking to my friend the other day about Salty and he said he was still having issues. Why the hell is he still in the minors? And why the hell did they trade for Molina???
they’re saying Rangers or Reds? wow. Can you imagine if it’s the Reds? He’d be pitching tommorow IN PHILLY against Halladay…..
REDS, W.T.F
Where did they come from. That would be interesting to see.
The problem teams will face is they have to be willing to give up prospects for a rental of Lee, any team that acquires him.
Lee is determined to test his value on the open market with him knowing the Yankees are waiting in the wings and Pettitte possibly retiring and Vazquez not being resigned by the Yankees.
If that is the case the Yankees would obviously bid the most on Lee in the open market.
I don’t see him agreeing a deal with any team he is dealt to, so a GM has to leverage that against making a deal for half a season.
I love the reds accquire lee .Lee vs phillies must watch t.v.
Don’t know the Reds farm system at all. What do the Reds have to offer that would be better than a Texas package centered around Smoak or a Yankees package centered around Montero?
Alonso is a good 1B prospect. Frazier at SS. And of course Chapman, but the Reds won’t deal him.
Due to the rhyme scheme…. We’re due for another update any second now.
I hate Ruben Amaro right now! If he would have just waited til now to trade lee, or at least let other teams besides the mariners in on the discussion he could have received a much needed trade/bargaining chip…sooooo dumb.
The only way he can make amends is to trade for Oswalt so that the Phillies will have two Roys!
Just throwing this out there. Would Lee for Russell Martin, John Ely, and Jerry Sands be a win-win? Mariners get three solid young players while the Dodgers replace Martin with May who I think could be just as good, Ely with Lee (for this season anyway), and lose Sands who came out of nowhere anyway (25th round draft pick 3 years ago that nobody talked about last year).
Justin Smoak is a thousand times better than that sad package. Sorry!
1000 times? really? Yes he MAY be great someday, but has proven NOTHING in his entire professional career. Until he does, he’s a prospect. Where you on the Alex Gordon bandwagon as well?
“his entire professional career” Really? All ~65 games of it?
Woah, I really didn’t think the rangers would become buyers, even with their record.. But they def. Have a farm system 10x deeper than the yanks. A lot of teams do, even with montero’s name involved.I’m curious though, what top spects would the reds throw in? And once again I’ll ask, where are the red sox in all this? Kelly, kalish, Anderson, dice-k (ichiro pull?) is FAR better than the yanks offer. The sox can get their bullpen help elsewhere
Don’t quote me on this.. But I think if Dice K leaves Boston he loses his car, his paid housing, and all of the other incentives in his contract. On top of that, I think he has a No Trade Clause
I mentioned the ichiro pull though, which would keep him surrounded in a Japanese media environment and be a huge story back home in japan. His contract is pretty cheap at market value if he can be healthy there
God i hope its not the reds. If im the M’s id much rather have montero over francisco and alonso although that would be a very nice for them too.
This just crossed the wire…Ed Price of AOL Fanhouse said that the Mariners are willing to accept a unicorn and Big Bird for Lee.
This is a joke, wake me up when the M’s officially make a statement as to where Lee is headed.
Looks like the GM got what he wanted revved up interest in Lee to see if he can milk a team for a rental.
Make no mistake that is what Lee is to any team that gets him. All along he has been adamant to test the market.
He isn’t going to give that up now unless blown away by the team that acquires him.
This Seattle GM is not someone to deal with he seems very strange in changing his mind with the wind patterns.
Can you imagine how potent that line-up would be.
1. Cliff Lee
2. Elmo
3. Snuffalufagus (Although he will be pissed that Big Bird is gone)
4. Oscar the Grouch
5. Dude that owns the store
Unbelievable lineup…wow.
Oscar is way past his prime and no way Elmo repeats his number from last year, moron.
hmmm smoak not in tonites lineup…..
he coming to Seattle thats why!!!!!!!!!!
I think the Reds’ can acquire Lee, and resign him..
Arroyo has a 2mm buyout as does Harang. They could buy them out and free up $25mm in payroll. And if the Reds’ make the playoffs ownership might be willing to spend more on payroll.
They could have
Lee
Cueto
Volquez
Leake
Wood/Chapman.. in their rotation next year.
You forgot Bailey
As much as I would like that to happen, with us having to bid against the deep pocket teams next year … I find it hard for a small market team to owe one player 20-25% of your entire payroll. Even paying Coco at 16% of our current total payroll is to much TBH
Yankees probably will still get him
okay then give us montero and swisher. your just jealous cause you have no chance now
Yankee fans should be happy. In four months the Yankees can get him without Jesus. Jealous? Nope. Happy, very.
The Mariners may have blown it. Sad for them.
How? If anything they just upped Lee’s value as more and more teams up the offer the Yankees set forth
If the Mariners can’t get the equivalent of two first round picks for lee, then they should just wait. If the Yankees get Lee now and resign him next year, they won’t lose their draft picks. Then again, they will probably sign someone else and lose it anyways. The Rangers won’t do the trade because they want the Mariners to pay the rest of Lee’s contract. Thus, the Rangers have to really overpay for Lee. Z is smart, he’s not going to accept any reasonable deal.
you acctually wanted montero over smoak. catchers burn out for seattle (Clement, Johnson, etc. where held as high prospects) like nothing. smoak is better for seattle
Plus the Rangers are stupid, wait let me say that louder STUPID is they trade Smoak. He is part of the future of that lopsided and in financial ruins franchise.
SO glad they’re getting Smoak. Hooray!!
3:57pm: The Rangers will acquire Lee, according to Sherman
The deal is ‘imminent,’
WOW. I’m a Yankee fan and this is a crazy deal for Seattle. Can’t blame them for not offering more.
All I can say is this. If the Reds acquire Lee (I’ll give it less than 5% chance), then the Central is theirs.
The Mariners GM seems to want an arm and a leg, and a firstborn boy child in the deal from teams
Sheesh, how greedy can you get.
All that for a guy that is a rental to any team that gets him by all indications.
I am glad for one thing, last season that same Mariners GM asked the Yankees for Austin Jackson for Jarrod Washburn, thank goodness Cashman didn’t bit on that one. Turned out for the better and the Yankees still won the title.
Looks like all that this Jack Z wanted was interest in Lee spiked up with the Yankees in town and Lee going tonight on the mound.
The greedier the Mariners GM gets he will be left with crumbs at some point if he keeps trying to play off teams proposals.
How is it greedy if people are prepared to pay the price?
No, the greedier he gets the more he gets in return. Obviously, as now he will be getting twice as many prospects including one of the games bright young stars. It’s his job to be greedy.
Smoak and 3 others is a gross overpay for LEE IMO.
im gonna take a guess at the others
justin smoak, wilmer font, max ramirez, and a PTBNL.
ok so Lee is now going within the division to Texas…I think Lee will wind up as a Yankee in the offseason. I am shocked the Ms traded within their division , but then again its not like the Yanks & Red Sox making a trade…
Texas still wont win it all
Why are you shocked? M’s have absolutely nothing to play for this year.
Hullo is right. This is a brilliant move.
Take some of your rivals best prospects while you’re in a rebuilding mode. Give them a rental for 3 months and PRAY TO GOD that they don’t re-sign him. Knowing he goes to the Yankees this winter, this was a brilliant move.
just watchout for the ownership change, and with harden off the books next year, they automatically can offer 10M a year.. they could sign him if it works out..
Smoak looks to be a good prospect, but he is hitting like 200 and shows huge holes in his swing from the right, and cant handle the low and end fastball or curve.
10MM? You’re going to need to almost double that and probably commit 5-6 years.
Depending on the other prospects that the Mariners got this is a great haul for the Mariners way more than I thought that they would get for him. I think Texas will regret this deal. Smoak will be a stud, he alone makes the deal. They will now have to compete against him for the next 6 years.
Can he please pitch for the Mariners tonight? My fantasy team really needs his stats.
Nope once he is officially dealt property of the other team.
He might have been kidding…
Yeah I was kidding. He could have potentially gotten me four points in my roto league though if he pitched tonight.
The M’s gotta love that massive haul
One thing to remember – Smoak is going for a massive bandbox to a pitchers park.. his numbers won’t be as good. But still he’s a beast. or a Smoak monster pardon the pun.
He prefers being known as the Man in Black.
The Mariners got WAY more than the previous two Lee deals COMBINED.
how could the Rangers even acquire Lee with all of their financial issues?? Will this have to be approved by bankruptcy court? Now that I think about it I dont see how this will go through.
Supposedly they had some money stashed away for a move. Keep in mind he’s only owed about $4 million for the rest of the season (IIRC).
And the Mariner’s are sending a duffle bag full of money along with Lee.
SEA is sending money their way to pay for Lee the rest of the year?
Olney: “Heard this: SEA is kicking in $2.5 million in order to help offset the $4 million owed to Lee. In return, Texas gave a better package of prospects besides Smoak.”
Well, Mariners are sending cash. I wonder who the other three prospects are.
Watch them move harden…
if they dump him, its offset right there.
Holy Cow! 4 players, including Smoak for Lee + $$$. I knew the Rangers were broke, but this is incredible.
The rangers are actually going for it.Lee has prove many times he can shut down the yankees.
Yeah but he is 1 pitcher only.
Lee shut down the Yankees in the 1st game of the World Series and it still didn’t matter in the end.
This is the perfect year for the Rangers to go for it. They have a big lead in a weak division. It’s not like Smoak is hitting that great. They can easily replace him with Chris Davis, who has more pop anyways.
How many times has this guy been traded? He can now build his stats before he gets the big deal with the Yankees in the off season. Guess America’s Team in Citifield once again didn’t have enough cash and players to pony up for a bigtime player, as always. Such a shame. 🙂
The Rangers have arguably the best farm system in baseball. Few if any teams could compete with their offer
By the way, how are you enjoying Aumont, Ramirez, and Gillies? That deal sure worked out well for you guys.
We got fleeced in that trade, that’s for sure.
Wow,didn’t see that coming.Why the hell would they trade Smoak with in the division?
LOL I didn’t realize that Lowe was out for the year… it gets worse and worse.
Seems like the Rangers are pushing not necessarily for the playoffs, but more importantly, a reason for someone to buy the franchise…
“hullo 2 minutes ago in reply to bdotson5
SEA is sending money their way to pay for Lee the rest of the year?
Olney: “Heard this: SEA is kicking in $2.5 million in order to help offset the $4 million owed to Lee. In return, Texas gave a better package of prospects besides Smoak.”
+++++++++++++++++
What I take from that is no way Texas is resigning him, this is an out and out rental for certain.
Why can’t Texas pickup 4 million dollars of Lee’s remaining salary. I understand that they are bankrupt but 4 million is a small amount when you consider that they are a professional sports franchise.
Hats off to the Ms. To land 4 players and one of them being the stud Smoak is amazing! As was pulling for the Reds but I doubt the Reds could afford to match that deal. Jon Daniels is stupid.
Want to know who these other three players are.
With the cash thrown in by the M’s I would not be surprised if Scheppers and/or maybe Ogando are part of the deal.
i think itll be
Salty/Ramirez
Kiker/Main
Low level like marcus lemon
I think Smoak was a little much, especially in the division, no?
Honestly i think the rangers can see he has some issues, he can be great, but he needs MAJOR changes… no one sees the 200 avg over this season? i mean he cannot hit from the right side, and he has holes on the left side. maybe if he goes to AAA to fix it, but clearly even in Texas his stats arent good..
Other prospects are: Beaven, Lawson, Lueke according to Piliere.
this isnt terrible for the rangers…
the only big chip is Beaven… id prefer that be Main.
This is quite a deal for the M’s
Good deal for the M’s.
If MLB is keeping control of the Rangers finances I see no reason why they should be permitted to trade for Lee.
well, the trade may not cost the rangers anything if the Mariners are sending cash (as is being reported). And the Rangers won’t have money to sign him to an extension. If Lee was not a FA at the end of the year, I could see MLB nixing the deal. otherwise, I’m not sure it matters.
As a Rangers fan, I am shaking my head at this mess.
How is Smoak a better prospect than Montero or Ramos/Hicks?
Ask Jack Z. I’m confused too
He’s about equal to Montero, Ramos+Hicks. But they get other 3 other guys too.
it doesn’t matter who is better at this point. they’re all prospects that still need to pan out. it’s the value they see in them, and the m’s saw more value in the rangers pack. they obviously wanted more from the twins, and at the end of the day, the twins show they’re unwilling to pull the trigger.
Half a year of Lee for how many years of Smoak? Mariners win this trade.They are gonna look back and wish they hadn’t traded Smoak.He has very good potential.I guess the Rangers are pushing for the WS now.They are gonna dominate the NL West for sure now.
Yankees fans how do you like your chances against cliff lee and texas line up.
I’d say we like our chances. We’re the best team in baseball and Cliff Lee can’t start all their games. Also, rooting for the Rangers to get a better record than the AL Central teams though now!
cj wilson is no slouch either. neither is lewis. rangers actually have a pretty good rotation now. even better when holland gets back.
Yanks had no problem handling Lee on a better team in the WS last year. No one scares the Yankees.
I think it’s good for Texas, but not enough to beat the Yankees in the playoffs, needs more depth to their pitching staff. Just enough to see the last World Series against Philadelphia.
Um, considering last year in the World Series they beat a Phillies team with Cliff Lee and a potent lineup – I’d still say pretty good.
I would be very, very confident. I guess since Texas fans have no clue what good baseball looks like, they go overboard for decent baseball.
Beavan Leuke Lawson or Gillies Aumont Ramirez. Which package is worse/better? Than add Smoak? Amaro must feel like a fool.
and this is only for half a season.
Phillies wouldn’t have had a place on the diamond for Smoak, in case that wasn’t obvious.
The point wasn’t that it is Smoak but his value… a blue chip prospect.
Hope Lee has fun watching his ERA balloon in that stadium.
Hope Smoak enjoys seeing his numbers decrease?
Also LOL @ Jon Heyman. Clown is reporting hour old info like its hot off the wire.
like darren oliver? or alexi ogando? or darren o’ day? or cj wilson? or colby lewis?
yeah, cliff lee will definitely put up terrible numbers. (sarcarsm)
Actually Cliff Lee has not done well Historically at Rangers stadium. However he’s been lights out this year so the Rangers got themselves quite the pitcher. The deal is ok…. a little bit better than the Yankee’s but not a whole lot better.
Have you seen his K/BB ratio? How is anyone going to hit it out if they can’t even get the bat on the ball?
What does K/BB have to do with anything? His WHIP is almost 1(lol thats awesome) but he has 7 walks? so yes he does give up hits..
Safeco and Arlington are COMPLETE opposites.
Yeah, guess I used the wrong stat, my bad, but still 92 hits allowed in 103.2 IP is still pretty f**king good. My main point is that I think he’ll be just fine playing in Texas.
Any team except one thats going broke would not make this deal, but with the Rangers I guess there is nothing except the present to be concerned about.
Looks like a win for the M’s to me. Lee isn’t going to stay with the Rangers so they won’t have to worry about the divisional problem after this year. Smoak will just need to get past the pitchers ballpark problem.
so who plays firstbase for the rangers now? ramirez? or do they acquire a guy like d-lee or laroche.
Chris Davis.
Davis, with Mitch Moreland waiting for his turn.
Phew! Thought that the Rangers would be giving up way too much. Thank god Scheppers, Perez, Holland were not included in this deal. Hurts to lose Smoak but you have to give up something to get something.
i said shocked only because it was interdivision,,,I am still pretty sure Lee will sign with the Yanks after the season ends
Why no Salty. I thought the whole point was to get our catcher of the future. Smoak + Salty + 1-2 more prospects would of been enough.
Salty isn’t anybody’s catcher of the future.
Suck it Yankees.
It’s cathartic to laugh at the Yankees, but if the rest of the league’s GMs think that Jack Z negotiated in bad faith with the Yanks, it will hurt his credibility in the future if he tries to work deals with other teams.
I don’t think it was bad faith, he used the Yankees offer as leverage to get a better package from the Rangers, sounds like good GMing to me. This morning I was pissed that we were giving up Montero, then I warmed up to it and started getting excited about Lee, and now I just hope that Lee isn’t the reason we get knocked out of the playoffs, and if we still win it all Cashman will have dodged a bullet.
The Yankees thought Z negotiated in bad faith just a year ago with regard to Jarrod Washburn… it didn’t even keep the Yankees from dealing with him again when he had someone they wanted. Won’t stop anyone in the future, either.
please, please, please.. Rangers give him that extension that he deserves.. so the yankees don’t steal him.. The Mariners gave up the day they acquired Bradley everyone saw this trade coming..4 teams in 2 yrs.. I hope to god the Rangers lock him up, I like most do not want him to be in a Yankee Uniform
I don’t think you can give Lee prospects to pay for his new contract. That team can’t even afford road trips right now.
once again… ownership flips, dont give harden his option, there is 7 million. let Frank Fransisco go and use schepplers. there 3.5BAM 10.5 million for lee, then ownership offers another 3. 13.5 a year for 3 or 4 and we got him is 60mill/4yr enough?Not to mention we should have 10 mill in players we dont own (A-rod,Cat,Padilla,ect.) come off the books. give them some credit, we can afford it
Lee is going for CC type money. At the very minimum $20M per year. Why would he sign for less than Lackey and AJ, both of whom he is much better? Look for closer to 5 year $100m. He left Philly (a team with lots of wealth) because he was so adamant about testing free agency.
I’m pretty sure we yankee fans will get the last laugh when next season we have Montero AND Lee (and maybe even Oswalt lol).
Ya ya ya… its pretty tough when you can spend $206,738,389 a season.. Go rays
How original, a jab at the Yankees and their payroll……
“I’m pretty sure we yankee fans will get the last laugh when next season we have Montero AND Lee (and maybe even Oswalt lol).”Sorry, but Yankee fans like to bring it up…. Just sayin
Oh, I’m not arguing that d32123 started it and is in fact being a jerk, I’m just saying that you should try to come up with an insult that isn’t so insanely overused.
(I just want to note that I take zero offense to what you said)
Gotcha… honestly thats the only insult i can come up with for a team thats won more championships than i have years under my belt haha
haha greatness.
i still say the rangers are sleepers to sign lee before the year is over when ownership flips and they take harden off the books next year.. just saying they can afford 12mill or whatever.
Why would Lee sign for 12MM? I think it’ll take at the very least 5/90MM to get him.
And you’ll have Smoak in 5 years time too right? And Beaven if he’s any good. LOL
Don’t act like such a spoiled infant.
Call me crazy, but I think this is a good thing for the Yankees. They keep Montero and Lee goes to a team with zero chance of resigning him, making him a very foreseeable option to sign in free agency. It’s not like the Yankees have had rotation struggles.
4:47pm: The Yankees, not surprisingly, are livid with the Mariners, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (via Twitter). The Yanks thought they had a deal, but the Mariners told the Rangers they could have Lee if they included Smoak and there went the Yankees’ hopes of getting Lee. I loved it hahahahaha.
Wow the Rangers just completely went against went got them here. Future of Smoak for 3months of Lee is ridiculous. If they were willing to trade Smoak they could’ve got Haren or Oswalt and had the Dbacks or Stros eat alot of the salary if they were willing to give up blue chips like Smoak and had them for a couple years. I’m exciting for the Rangers for two months but not the future. The M’s on the other hand made an awesome investment on the wack prospects sent to Phils and now cashed in on the return. They got Lee for a few months and actually gained talent significantly to what they traded away. Also the Yankees just caught a huge break since they will have Lee in a few months anyway so they should be thanking the Rangers and M’s instead of being Livid!
you all have to feel sorry for justin smoke hes going from a redhot 1st place rangers to the ice cold last place mariners
we are building for the future with him and whats wrong with our team? what do you have against us. probably one of those livid yankees fans.
He was just saying that going from a 1st place team to last place team sucks. Your team is not very good. Then again, I am an Astros fan so…
yeah its sad to see how the years gone for us. but atleast we are building the last 2 years after bavasi screwed over our farm. very pleased with the deal and getting smoak. the additional prospects are as good as what was rumored but Texas wasn’t going to completely strip there farm. Beaven looks good and Lueke could help out our terrible bullpen for the future. surprised why Texas took Mark Lowe, he was out for the year, if they wanted a reliever, we could have gave them Brandon League.
also i see another deal soon for seattle probably giving up kotchman.
He’s also going to Safeco Field. Hopefully, for him, it won’t suppress his potential.
Smoak is also going to one of the worst hitters park in baseball.
he’s a switch hitter that can supress that down and has good gap skills which is what we need.
The yankees can get over it, so they didn’t get someone they wanted. I hope that another team signs him besides the yankees in the off season.
I just don’t see the Yanks signing him in the offseason. They simply cannot add another huge contract to their books. Lee will demand between 15-20M a year and get it. Jeter’s new contract figures to be 4yr/80M or 5yr/100M and you know Mo is gonna get his pay day again. Adding another 15-20M isn’t realistic for NY at this point. Look for the teams that missed out on Lee to make a big run at him in free agency.
Considering Pettitte and Javier coming off the books, I argue against that.
They seem to always want Pettitte back. And they’re going to be in on other players so… Just doesn’t make sense for them to spend it one player.
Actually, it is realistic if Pettitte does in fact retire, since he and Vazquez are making a combined 23.25MM, and I doubt that Jeter and Mo will get raises, (most likely is that their salaries stay the same) so the Yankees can add Lee at 15-20MM and have a 1-4 of CC, Lee, Hughes, AJ, which is pretty damn good if you ask me.
u have a point saying their is enough money freed up with petitte and javy leaving.
but cliff lee can only fill 1 rotation spot and will cost the equivalent of 2. i guess joba can become a starter again(although he sorta sucks this year in the BP) or try gaudin or someone.
but getting lee only fills 1 spot.
Yes, that’s true, but that’s not the only money coming off the books, and it’s not like it’ll be overly costly to find a 5th starter on the FA market if the team isn’t comfortable using Joba as a starter.
Edit: There are also other SP in the Yankees system that could fill the 5th spot, I am personally a fan of Zach McAllister and hope to see him in pinstripes next season.
The Yankees are furious for a team baiting a switching? C’mon. If they are pissed, they’re stupid. They keep their prospects, can sign Lee in the offseason and not have to worry about it. It’s not like they can’t go out and get another pitcher. There’s lots of them out there. It it’s going to be a rental, there’s no use in it being Lee for the asking price. Get a middle of the rotation guy, give up some b-level prospects, and call it a day. It’s not like the Yankees haven’t been doing the same thing to teams for eons now.
Um Branyan going to Play DH now? Kinda cool that in 2 Years Cliff Lee has been traded for a million prospects…lol
Wow. This was a surprisingly amazing deal for the Mariners. The Rangers were nuts to include Smoak.
Smoak for Lee is a great deal for us. Are you serious? We traded an UNPROVEN prospect for a Cy Young winner.
You traded a highly valued prospect for a rental (and other prospects). Lee will be with the Yankees after this season. I hope for your fan base sake, you do indeed get to the post-season. I thought the Rangers were doing fine without Lee anyway.
I love that the Yankees didn’t get what they wanted. About time!!!
I love that the Yankees didn’t get what they wanted. About time!!!
unfortunately, they will.
The Mariners just raped the Rangers in this deal. Smoak is arguably the best prospect in the game, excluding Heyward. The great thing is that the Rangers have absolutely no chance of signing Lee in the offseason. He will surely be a NYY and we won’t even have to give up Montero to get him. Imagine how much of a failure this trade will be when the Rangers get ousted in the first round of the playoffs by the Yanks.
I think this worked out perfectly for the Yanks, even though they are furious. They’re expected to sign Lee and another free agent in the offseason. That means essentially they’ll only give up a 2nd round pick to sign Lee depending on his Elias ranking (if he is higher than Crawford or Werth then he’ll cost a first rounder and the other a second). We get to keep Montero and possibly bring him up in September just to show Seattle what they could have had.
Anyways, the Rangers got completely screwed and basically just panicked when they heard that the Yankees were close to a deal. The M’s are quite lucky to get this return.
i don’t see how anyone got raped. texas is deep in the pocket with prospects, so they didn’t lose much but gained a damn good pitcher. mariners win because they got a big return like they wanted. even the yankees didn’t really lose. they keep their guys, but are still clearly the favorites. this didn’t make the rangers better than the yankees, so ny still wins. if he had gone to another contender, it might be a different story.
im still surprised that when we drop harden next season we free up 7 million PLUS new ownership allows for payroll… no reason we can offer 12mill a year just like the yankees…
watch… once ownership flips they will work hard to sign an extension with lee..
The only raping going on is by one of the guys the Seattle Mariners traded for.
Yankees should be livid though. Not for the fact the Mariners reneged on the deal, just for the fact that MLB helped fund this deal, a deal that involved a guy who got charged with rape and did prison time.
For the Rangers it’s a fine deal. Smoak could be the greatest thing since sliced bread but it’s not a known quantity, obviously Cliff Lee is. When was the last time the Rangers made the playoffs? Take the most of your chances, you never know when you’re getting back.
Considering how the Yankees will probably be playing the AL Central winner, we won’t have to fear Lee in the 5 game series.
This is basically the only other thing that could trump our offer. Jack Z, thanks for showing the baseball world how to make people bid up. No, that’s not sarcasm. I said earlier only Justin Smoak could stand between the Yankees and three months of Lee, and that’s what happened. To be honest, if the Rangers succeed with Lee, good for them-They deserve it.
Oh well. We keep the prospects and go about or business as is.
Whew! I’m sure glad that he didn’t go to the Rays, Twins, Red Sox or Phillies. The Yanks don’t need Lee but we certainly don’t want him in our division. I’m also SO glad that the Yankees won’t be losing Jesus Montero. I’m a loyal fanatic of Montero and I’ve been looking forward to him mashing the ball at Yankee stadium. I hope the Yankees let him prove himself in the bigs and at least consider making him a part time DH/back-up catcher. Give the guy a chance! NUMBER 4 PROSPECT IN ALL OF BASEBALL! Go Yankees! We can win a WS without Lee!
The Yanks are livid…And all is right in the world!
Wait, didn’t the Yankees get Teixeria after they bait and switched with the Red Sox? I believe the Sox had an offer and then Teixeria went to the Yankees and said “Do better than this and you have us”?Seems pretty laughable that the Yankees would ever be mad at the bait and switch method…
I love when the Yankees are livid…their frustration is like sipping on an energy drink. Screw the Yankees and the Red Sox!
I love it when Yankee haters hate because it makes winning that much sweeter. It’s like getting a shot of adrenaline. Go Yankees! Screw everyone else.
you know nothing is the sure thing like who knows maybe the injury bug comes to the yankees and lose ground to the Rays and Red Sox. and if you play Texas in the 1st round, i doubt it will be a sweep heck texas is as strong as new york is now, so Texas might win that series. and if youre some fan outside of new york city (if you are, sorry) your just some bandwagoners/i only care who wins/not true fan. i like my team even if they go 0-162. i never will stop caring and believing in my m’s EVER.
Personally I do not see this as such a great package. Granted Smoak has the “potential” to be something, but at this point .209 avg 8 hr 39 rbi in a hitter’s ballpark does not scream out. The rest of the package is questionable at best.
Additionally going from a hitter’s park to Safeco…
Yeah I don’t get Jack Z’s thinking. Montero should be enough by himself for 3 months of Lee. Justin Smoak is a poor man’s Jose Bautista.
In fact Smoak is even a poor man’s Ike Davis…
You said it vjwhitmore! Mariners I think wanted quantity over quality to ensure their investment Lee. Texas is the Cinderella story of the AL ; Bankrupt yet a playoff contender with many players having career years! Cincinnati and San Diego are tied for Cinderella stories of the NL.
Smoak has only been in the big leagues for two months and didn’t start the season on the big league roster. He’s compared to Mark Texiera and is a much better land than Montero so please stick to something you know about.
Smoak is a switch hitter and can hit the gaps which will make him better in Seattle. and comparing smoak to jose bautista is offensive. he is a top 10, probably top 5 prospect in all of baseball and in the package we got a young bullpen pitcher and another starter that will be in the rotation soon. your just mad that you don’t get lee. and no montero isn’t anywhere near enough (same for smoak) just for lee there needs to be some additional higher up prospects, which the yankees dont have so the trade wasn’t good enough.
hes young and raw just needs some more development and he’ll be fine. and Smoak is signed for like 5 years (don’t really know) or 6 while lee is just a rental and 99.9% odds that he won’t stay in texas. so Texas is going all out for this year while leaving a gaping hole at 1b for them.
Im a Ranger fan and love their farm system and future with the young guys, but I dont know how Ranger fans are so mad and why Mariner fans are so pumped. Ofcourse we gave up Smoak and it might hurt later, what did you expect?…they were dealing within the division AND kicking in cash, we had to give somebody up. In my opinion the Rangers easily won this deal, they gave up Smoak and three scrubs for Lee, Lowe, cash and two draft picks. Well done JD!!!
A fellow M’s fan agrees. If we only had a farm system THAT packed, well, things would be different. But the question is whether if a inter-divisional trade (yes, 16 games back AL West) can be called fair? Cliff Lee is excellent and I’ll root for the Rangers during the finals – but I’m just as impressed that a casual farm system turn awesome and a bankrupt baseball club turned ‘locks for the AL championships contender’ found each other. Who cares – we got some Smoak with that soon-to-be-fire!!!!
Bowing down to JD’s greatness right now:
He got a solid bullpen arm in RHP Mark Lowe (93-98 MPH, adequate slider, 3.48 ERA and 1.48 BB9=good command) and THE BEST LHP in baseball for:
Justin Smoak-A (1B: former 1st round pick;Still an Elite prospect despite struggles, Plus power from Left Side, developing on the Right hand side)
Blake Beaven-B (RHP, starter, 6’7 250; former 1st round pick; velocity is not equal to his size, sits at 89-92, plus slider, developing change; Compares to a young Adam Eaton.)
Josh Lueke-C (RHP, reliever, 6’5 220; BIG arm, limited arsenal, 93-96, average slider, developing split-change)
Matt Lawton-D+C- (2BOF, only hitting .277 at AA;doesn’t project well; good glove, average speed)
So it only took an A,B,C, and D to get a solid Bullpen arm and the BEST LHP in baseball.
If Cliff stays awesome, if he leaves we will either get 1 or 2 compensation picks since Lee will be a Type A free agent. (He is going to get Sabbathia money 7-8$160-180, by the way.)
If he is the highest ranked Type A for the team he signs with, we will get 2 compensation picks.
Those 2 picks will be in the 1st round, or supplemental round after that, and (hopefully) used to adequately replace Smoak and Beavan.
Bottomline, this was a STEAL by Daniel’sThad Levine.
Davis will hopefully replacesurpass Smoak’s production.
Hat’s Off to the best GM (and Asst. GM) in baseball. You made your fans (casual and hardcore) extremely happy.
PS:I’ll be camping out at Holtz Lake for playoff tickets!
He got a solid bullpen arm in RHP Mark Lowe (93-98 MPH, adequate slider, 3.48 ERA and 1.48 BB9=good command)
Too bad you don’t get him this season. He’s out for the year.
Coming off of back surgery. So good luck with that. I like Lowe and I hope he does well but back surgery…. yeah…. kinda risky he’ll be the same when he comes back.
I’m an M’s fan through and through. I thought this was an excellent deal for the M’s. Just think of our potential in 2-3 years time…Ackley, Liddi, Trifunel, Saunders, Pineda, and Robles, and go ahead and add Fields, Cortes (please), Mangini and Halman (that’s not to be excluding our fine acquires of the day Smoak and Bevan). I’ve never been this excited about our farm system and Jack Z just added some serious quality. Lee was the best (perhaps only) thing to watch this season and it hurts – but it’s not like he was ours anyway!
Jack Z basically used the yankees.It obivious yankees doesnt trust burnett and vasquez If it was the boss geroge he would never let this gone this far cashman you tool.
Now it comes down to who can sign Cliff in the offseason. With this not being the greatest of FA classes, don’t be surprised if he Cliff makes a return trip to the emerald city.
Before the season started, Lee and his agent approached the M’s front office to talk about a possible extension. The front office basically said “we dont wanna go that way”
Lee is a pretty down to earth guy as far as the baseball business goes. But I dont see him wanting to come back to Seattle even if we dish out the money for him.
I’m just cheering against the Yanks. Preferably an NL team gets him. The less we face him, the better.
I know this is the tidbit of this trade, but I’ve seen Lowe pitch in Fenway, and real close, he has one of the best arms I’ve seen in person. I dont know now about his back, but this kid really has a live arm. Always wanted the Sox to go after him.
I’m just sayin’ before I go to bed – does this acquisition by the M’s beat out the other trades Lee was involved in? Perhaps to early to say – but it does make the case…
ah. Jack Z almost pissed me off selling Lee to the Yankees. But goddamn he pulled the rug out from under the yankees and flipped them off. LOL. The yankee fans are going to be VERY Depressed tonight.
WOW, traded ace to a division rival.. but justin smoak is a top prospect..
well as a yankee fan i am kinda glad they didnt get him. i’d rather them sign lee in the offseason and still have montero. although it wouldve been a really great rotation the rest of the year. and for yankee haters, yes they spend alot of money. and didnt really do well with the farm system up untill recently. but up until last year it wasn’t working well. and they put it all together this year. and they didnt really spend much this offseason, i think not even 20 mil. dont hold me to that. and they will probably go and get lee and a few others this offseason. but thats their way of winning, and they arent the only team that spends money. as for teams like tampa, min.,san diego and others, i do respect them for what they have done with less. but one team im sort of a fan of the marlins are some what of a joke. they didnt sign a single free agent in the offseason and only spent money on their own players when the league said something. they get luxary tax money and werent using it. and their idiot of an owner goes out and says we have a playoff team. their manager shouldnt have been fired, he was doing the best with what he had and they didnt give valentine the job because loria wanted to tell him how to manage, i think or something like that. loria wonders why fans dont show up, other than the hot weather, its because he keeps giving up fan favorite players because they are up for a raise. he doesnt want to spend the money to win, he keeps it for himself. he doesnt care about winning he should sell the team to someone who actually cares about winning. so why dont u guys start ripping the marlins.
Yeah great….they did not spend much this offseason after taking in Tex, CC and Burnett…..so we can thank them for not spending too much this year. Great logic of course.
I will give you that teams like the Marlins and Pirates are the worse side of pleading poverty….and never try to spend ANY money. But even if they tried to spend all their money…it would still fall well short of what the Yankees have.
The disparity since the late 90’s just keeps getting worse and worse. You know who had the 2nd or 3rd biggest payroll in 1995?? The Cincinnati Reds. That tells you something doesn’t it?
They are the only team that CAN spend money for those 3 big FA…..every other team could maybe afford one of them. Don;t let your love of all that is yankees blind you to the fact that they can spend twice as much as anyone with their cable and stadium money. Good for them that they can …. and the fact that you already know they will sign Lee and others…shows the arrogance of all Yankee fans…that on one hand…they get defensive over their team being labeled as greedy and over spending…but at the same time….they know that they can throw money at any problem and outbid anyone.
They had my respect when they developed Jeter, Posada, Williams and Andy….then they went back to over spending and buying their way to the top again.
MLB would be served just moving more teams to the NY area…… since doing a salary cap will not happen…and this luxury tax is a joke.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but the conspiracy theorist in me thinks that the Rangers dealt whoever they had to to get Lee because the owner/GM/President all knew they weren’t going to be employees of the Rangers come next year. In short, they want a championship this year because they don’t know where they’ll be working next year. Hell, I’d do the same thing; I wouldn’t care about the future of the Rangers if I wasn’t going to be a part of it.
Does this mean the M’s don’t get Thole or Blackburn? Damn.
In all seriousness, I think it was a good trade for both teams. Other than Smoak, the Rangers didn’t give up anything all that special (basically just good prospects). Also, the M’s got someone with amazing potential at a cost controlled price for the next 5 years.
Imagine a future Mariners Lineup with Dustin Ackley, Justin Smoak, Franklin Gutierrez Ichiro Suzuki Michael Saunders (Someone not Rob Johnson or Adam Moore)and Russel Branyan If Ackley and Smoak pan out it will make a good 3 4 punch and pitching rotation consisting of Felix Hernandez, Michael Pineda (If he pans out), Erik Bedard, Doug Fister, and Vargas
The Mariners, Rangers and Yankees were all winners in this deal on Friday.
In response to Yankees420 who wrote,
Exactly who did they “throw money at” this past offseason? Nick Johnson? Randy Winn? Marcus Thames? Yeah, those contracts are really going to become a burden…..
Where did I write about ANY Yankee contract being a burden? That was my point….NO contract is EVER a buden for them. They can trade for a player who makes good money JUST SO another team in their division does not…even if they do not need them at all. What team can afford to do that? NOBODY …not with the Yankee cable contract and now their stadium money. Sure they spend the money they get…THEY also make tons more than other clubs in order to do that and can afford to make mistakes OR pick up people they really do not need.
They claimed Jose Canseco once from TOR in the late 90’s…just so he would not go to any of the contenders in their division and AL in general…even though he sat on the bench and barely played. He was making big money…and everyone could not believe they could do that. But again….it shows the disparity that is sooo big that you can afford to trade prospects anytime beacuse you know you can just sign a FA next year…without any problem.
Im sorry but some of you retards know absolutlely nothing about baseball. The Rangers did NOT lose this trade. They kept 4 of their 5 top prospects for the best pitcher in the majors and a decent bullpen guy when hes healthy. They still have Neftali Feliz, Derek Holland, Tanner Schepplers, and Martin Perez. Also the Rangers WILL be able to to resign Lee because of the ownership change that will take place soon. They wont take the option on Harden and they will dump some other smaller salary guys. (Matt Harrison, Brandan McCarthy, etc.) that coukd give you 12-18M a year. Plus Lee realizes the amount of young talent that the Rangers have and the best part is they have proven themselves…unlike Smoak.
The Rangers won the deal clearly.