The Bobby Cox era is over and the Braves are preparing for their first season under Fredi Gonzalez. GM Frank Wren says Gonzalez is "perfect" for the team, but the precise composition of next year's roster has yet to be determined.
Some, myself included, have speculated that the Braves could deal a starting pitcher away to address other needs, but Wren told David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that he'll be reluctant to trade pitching depth. Kenshin Kawakami and Derek Lowe would be potential trade chips if the Braves decided to change their stance and Jeff Schultz of the Journal-Constitution wonders if the Braves would deal Jair Jurrjens.
The Braves would like to add a right-handed hitting bat to the outfield this offseason. While Wren didn't rule out free agents Jayson Werth (bats right) or Carl Crawford (bats left), he noted that both are likely to be expensive. Wren also noted that the Braves are considering many candidates as they search for a new hitting coach (all links from Twitter).
I think they may make an offer to Magglio Ordonez.
nope tigers are going to sign him within the 5 days
you never know when the agent in question is scott boras
Burrell is my #1 choice.
Mine, too. It’ll be fascinating to see how Gonzalez differs from Cox in his treatment of defense vs. offense. Cox loved guys who could hit the ball out of the park but he stayed away from guys who were perceived to be obvious defensive liabilities (otherwise they probably would have made a run at Abreu or Burrell or Dunn when they were on the market earlier).
Any manager who can keep Dan Uggla at 2B day after day must have a high tolerance for defensive, uh. lapses.
I don’t think this is very accurate. Abreu was too expensive for the Braves, so they signed Garrett Anderson instead, who had one of the worst defensive seasons I have ever seen. The past several years the Braves decision making has been dictated by price, defense is of tertiary importance. Also, Cox didn’t make decisions on who would be signed. That is Frank Wren’s job.
I don’t think any manager would put Uggla on the shelf just because he isn’t a great defender. 30 HRs is 30 HRs.
for a left fielder yeah
for a second baseman…NO
you need to be able to field your position at second base
if you are a 2B who hits 30 and also plays D like $Hit, then you become a LF
Jeff Kent disagrees . . .
For that matter, so does Joe Girardi, Fredi Gonzalez and Edwin Rodriguez considering that none of them moved him off of 2B.
Why do people assume that you can take a crappy infielder and stick him out in left field? How many times has this actually happened? I have seen crappy centerfielders become left fielders. I have seen crappy outfielders become first basemen. I can’t remember any crappy second basemen who have moved to left field.
Kelly Johnson came up as a 2B/SS and was immediately moved to LF.
Kelly Johnson played lf and they moved him to 2b
Yea KJ started as an outfielder
I would much rather “tolerate” a bad defender in LF than at 2B.
I am not really trying to say that all 2B who cant play D move to LF. That would be a very arbitrary statement. What I am saying is on MY team MY 2B WILL be able to play D.
Remember the Belliard/Blauser tandem?
Blauser would have been a 3B/UTIF and Raffy Belliard starting 140+ games at short if I managed them.
My middle infielders can bat .200 if they play above average D.
My left fielder can play below average D as long as he slugs.
well it’s not letting me post a link, but KJ was a full time IF until age 22.
KJ was drafted as a shortstop. So was Chipper Jones. A lot of guys are drafted as shortstops but they are too big to play the position long term. Troy Glaus was drafted as a shortstop. KJ didn’t play second base until the Braves decided to try him there after he came back from tommy john surgery at the age of 25. If Marcus Giles hadn’t fallen off the map they probably would have left him in left field.
That’s impossible. You just told me two posts ago that 2B’s can’t move to LF.
Kelly Johnson was never a second baseman before he was a left fielder. In the minors or in the majors. Also, KJ wasn’t a bad infielder who was forced into the outfield. He was an exceptional athlete who the Braves coaching staff thought would acclimate well to left field, where they had a need at the time. He was their best hitting minor leaguer, but he was blocked at shortstop by Furcal and at third base by Chipper Jones. So they converted him to left field. They brought him up and he hurt his elbow and had to have TJ surgery. Then Marcus Giles stopped using PEDs and the Braves needed a second baseman. So they moved him there. Kelly Johnson wasn’t “immediately moved to left field” and he also wasn’t a SS/2b. Also, I didn’t say “2B’s can’t move to LF.” I said “I can’t remember any crappy second basemen who have moved to left field.”
Hell no. They need younger, something they can staple in for a few years.
someone slower than Melky? no thanks.
I would love for the Braves to get Pat the Bat, but I want him to be at 1st instead of Freeman. I think Freeman needs more time in the minors.
Freeman was the top player in the international league this year. How much seasoning does a guy need?
What Pat is really saying, although he may not be aware of it, is that he does not think FreddieFree is going to have success as a big leaguer. I have heard that opinion from other folks as well. But I for one say give him his chance. Like roberty said, the dude blasted in the IL. He was also recognized for his outstanding defense. You never know he might be the next Teixeira. Although not a switch hitter.
lets also not forget his first home run was against Roy Halladay
he was obviously slow on pitches and his reaction time was not there in the majors this year. I’m worried that he may actually struggle heavily for a few months until he adjusts to Major league pitching.
You noticed that from the…4 games he played?
yeah. It was pretty obvious. He wasn’t adjusted at all.
Ridiculous. The kid was full of nerves. He will be getting a lot more experience in the AFL this year. I don’t see the point of adding a guy like Burrell when he is going to be an expensive gamble in the first place, and we have more pressing needs in the outfield. The guy OPSed under .700 the entire time he played in Tampa.
Freeman was the top player in the international league this year. How much seasoning does a guy need?
I would love for the Braves to get Pat the Bat, but I want him to be at 1st instead of Freeman. I think Freeman needs more time in the minors.
The Braves will also need a CF. I don’t see them making a run at Rasmus, even if the Cards shop him. Coco Crisp? Jacoby Ellsbury?
Any chance Jordan Shaefer is in the mix for an OF spot next year?? It’d be great to get him going, maybe in the AFL or winter ball somewhere? I do envision us going after a RH OF bat since we’ll be set on lefty power (Heyward, Mac, Freeman), but I wouldn’t totally rule out a LH bat if it’s in our price range (aka CHEAP).
It’ll be nice to see how Gonzo prefers to set his lineup and what pieces he’ll want to go after this winter!
GO BRAVES!!!!
Schafer got shut down again with his wrist injury. His bat still hasn’t come around since the injury still may need another year to get fully recovered. His defense and arm are outstanding so I’m really hoping he can come back sometime in 2011 but I’m starting to worry this wrist thing may end his career.
Um, he’s sucked since his wrist injury. He’s not going to be at the MLB level anytime soon.
I actually got to talk to him a little at the TN smokies/ Mississippi Braves game and asked him when he would be back he said he would be ready for Spring Training. It was more me and my two buddies bugged him the whole time so he finally came to talk for a sec LOL
Crisp could be the least difficult to get. THe Sox would want a lot for Ellsbury.
Ellsbury for kimbrell? Or maybe ellsbury, reddick, Anderson, bowden for maccann?
The Braves aren’t trading McCann. Not for that package, anyway. For Longoria or Mauer (or that level of talent), maybe.
Why would the Braves trade McCann or Kimbrell?
Crisp could be the least difficult to get. THe Sox would want a lot for Ellsbury.
What about Carlos Quentin for Jair Jurrjens?
Keep JJ and let’s trade Hanson for a bat???
Why? JJ has more service time, therefore is going to reach arb (ie, be expensive) and reach free agency sooner. Keep the cheap talent while you’ve got it.
you would rather keep jj than hanson? you must be thinking hanson would fetch a better return, which is probably true. but why get rid of a guy who is your future ace? who is gonna be the ace then? hanson, hudson, jj is a great 1-2-3, get rid of lowe or kk if anything
I think the Braves would love to move Lowe or KK, the problem is they would either get nothing in return, or would be eating most of the salary. Last year Wren tried to move Lowe, but had to trade Vasquez instead.
No, dumb move.
And Chris Sale and Jared Mitchell will probably get Frank’s attention. He’ll be like “huh… A White Sox offer… that’s nice.”
only if you turn on the force trades on your video game….otherwise the Braves will never make that trade.
The White Sox seriously need more pitching? you got Peavy, Jackson, Burhele.
The White Sox seriously need more pitching? you got Peavy, Jackson, Burhele.
Sounds like they might be slashing payroll more. Wagner +Saito+Farnsworth+2 of Diaz/Ankiel/Melky would equal $20 M coming off.A little creativity in salary shedding would seem to be able to make the Braves big players for Werth or Crawford if they kept the payroll the same, especially if they filled the bullpen with in house options.
There’s raises coming to McLouth, McCann, Jurrjens, Moylan, Prado, and O’Flaherty still. That eats up a lot of that $20MM.
My bad. My quick estimate says that would put us at ~$11M to spend.
So unless ownership increases payroll (lol) or we dump Lowe, Kawakami, or McLouth (lol*2), Werth and Crawford aren’t happening.
If they trade Kawakami along with his salary and only bring in a 3-4M veteran setup guy like you know they will then (this is with letting all the FA leave and bringing back Diaz at ~2M or so) then they could concievably be cometitive for Crawford or Werth and say around 90M or so.
I know Werth is a great player, but gosh I hate that dude I just can’t root for him.
i think the braves shop quite a few players this offseason including some sell-high candidates: infante, alex g., and lowe…
and some sell-low candidates: kawakami, jurrjens, and mclouth
my wish list:
1. somehow, some way, get rid of kawakami and lowe.
2. trade alex g. and a stud prospect for colby rasmus, or trade some pitching to the dodgers for matt kemp.
3. buy low on javier vazquez 1/6.5 mil
4. buy low on jj hardy 1/4.5 mill
5. sign magglio ordonez to a 1/8 million dollar deal
6. spend nothing on the bench (internal options from AAA will suffice)
7. spend nothing on the bullpen (see above)
8. lock in some young talent through arb years (heyward, hanson, prado)
9. extend brian mccann
I’d really like to keep Lowe. He’s good, he’s experienced and he can eat innings if he doesn’t cramp.
I agree. Looks like his tweaked delivery and newfound faith in his curveball could make him an effective starter for the rest of his contract. I thought he’d be a salary dump earlier this season but he sure turned it on after he got that cortisone shot.
OTOH, Kawakami may indeed be a salary dump.
Wren will probably listen to offers on a lot of guys, but I don’t see Alex G. as a sell high candidate, unless you found another shortstop in return. He’d be hard to replace for $2.5 million, and his defense is good enough for one more season, even though I’d prefer just about anyone who got on base more than 29% of the time.
I think Infante will come crashing down to earth next year and returning to his normal (subpar) offensive performance, but given his versatility I can’t see him being dealt.
Infante’s offensive performance is not sub-par, assuming he is your utility man and not a starter. How many back-up IFs have a bat as good as Infante’s?
jturn14, I agree. If he’s not the starter, he’s fine. And I hope he’s the utility man; you could easily get 300-500 PAs from him if you use him at a variety of places.
But we have no idea if Fredi would be tempted to put him at 2B every day if Chipper can’t return (with Prado at 3B), or to name him the regular LF.
Trade Kawakami+Lowe, eat some of their salaries, non tender Ankiel, Melky, and any other liability except O’Flaherty, Moylan, and obviously Prado. Bring back Diaz for less and that’ll probably give them enough to bet on Crawford for 65M$+ Maybe.
crawford is going to take almost 100 million dollars to sign, probably 6/96…i say we package up jurrjens and another minor league piece and send them to the dodgers for matt kemp
I wouldn’t do that. The Braves wouldn’t be able to extend Kemp, so that’s just losing a very good #2 for a year’s rental that no one knows how hard he’s actually going to try with all that potential.
This isn’t true, as Kemp is only signed through next season but he also has another year of arbitration after the 2011 season. So you could get Kemp for at least 2 years and then offer an extension. JJ will be up for arbitration through 2013 so it is really just 2 years of Kemp for 3 years of JJ. JJ will also be getting very expensive most likely 3 million in 2011, 6-8 million in 2012, and 10-12 million+ in 2013.
Crawford will be a beast in the NL. But all I’ve seen suggest he’s getting 6 or 7 years and more than $100 million total.
He probably will. I wish the Braves had owners who cared enough to put the money into the team. A big bat would do wonders in LF.
Ah, the offseason.This is the time of year where, as an O’s fan, I am obligated to say “What about Luke Scott?” in a Braves thread. Then Braves fan(s) respond with trade packages that center around 2-4 of their middle tier prospects, staying away from their better ones. Os fans respond by asking for one of their better prospects. Braves fans tell us we’re crazy, argue that Scott isn’t that good, but end up convincing themselves he’s not worth it.It’s become kind of a tradition now.
😉
I’m convinced that the talent level in the AL is better than the NL, for whatever reason. So sure, kick the tires on Luke Scott. If Pat Burrell and Aubrey Huff can go from the scrap heap in the AL to key players on an NLCS team, then Scott could make a huge difference in Atlanta.
Based on what I’ve seen, the only knock against Scott going into 2010 would have been that he’s very streaky. That is, his overall good numbers were the result of extremely great hot streaks and extremely tough cold ones. That said, during 2010 he actually got a lot better. He didn’t really have any severe cold streaks at all, which made for him having a career year in many categories.
Isn’t Scott a left-handed DH? How would he make sense in Atlanta? And he certainly isn’t worth any more than a couple of mid-tier prospects.
I’m not sure what Scott is worth, but any guy who can play serviceable OF (he’s no worse than Burrell, or Diaz, for that matter), and hit the ball out of the park, lefty or righty, would be an upgrade. Be nice to get more than 25 HR from the entire outfield again.
I haven’t looked up the UZR but from what I have read Scott is pretty brutal in the field. Diaz actually isn’t that bad as long as he is in LF. I agree that the Braves desperately need more power but I just don’t think a guy like Scott is the answer. If they don’t mind brutal defense then they may as well just sign Adam Dunn.
Na, what you read then was incorrect.
Scott isn’t a bad OF. He just happens to play on a team where the OFs are all above-average defenders. Both Markakis and Jones are GG caliber OFs. Pie who is really a CF plays LF because he’s pushed. Pie’s platoon buddy is a average fielding but strong right-field armed Nolan Reimold. When any mixture of those guys are in the field together, every field has an assist-capable arm. Scott doesn’t fit in.
Scott’s defensive WIns Added (dWAR) is just about average. He niether takes away wins, nor adds them. So, in other words, he’s an average defending OF.
I think he’s certainly better than Burrell in the OF.
I think he can pull in a B prospect and a C+. Depending on the system, maybe it’s two B guys. I don’t think it’s a top prospect type of deal, but not filler either.
So many of these types of trade conversations start with fans offering a collection of their team’s #11-20 prospects and bench players. For a team like the Os, who have had some time to collect some prospects, through all the losing, they have plenty of prospects that can be the equivalent to any given teams’ #11-20 guys. To make any team pull the trigger is by offering something they don’t have. And, that’s not a collection of lukewarm medium grade prospects.
error
The Braves are never again going to have a payroll in the top 10. That ship sailed when AOL/TW showed no interest in marketing the team and it lost all that TBS-related audience and revenue. (And Liberty owns the club now, so it no longer has access to TBS.) So yeah, it’s going to take some creative dealing and really good scouting and player development to field competitive teams.
The Braves were 15/30 in payroll this year, and 5th of 8 playoff teams (they would have been 4th if San Diego had beaten out SF in the NLWest.) Atlanta can’t spend recklessly, but they don’t have to try turning water into wine in order to compete the way some organizations do. I really don’t expect them to be in the bidding for guys like Crawford, but they’ve had good scouting and development for literally decades now, so $85 million ought to be enough to put winning teams on the field.
The problem is that virtually all of that scouting effort has gone to pitching. When the only real offensive prospect left in your system is Freddie Freeman and you have a gaping hole in both CF and (arguably) SS, you have to find a way to plug them externally. That means either a) trading pitchers, which Wren seems reluctant to do, or b) buying free agents. To get the kind of top-flight bat we need means spending a lot of money on one guy, which we can’t really do, meaning having to give out contracts of the type we gave to Glaus this year: low base plus incentives if you can prove you’ve still got some of your old form left. I desperately want Werth to be a Brave next season, but reality says that just ain’t happening.
Yeah, that’s right. The minors are filled with promising arms and not many position players, and this goes back awhile. Even when they brought McCann and KJ and (ugh) Franceour to the majors the same season, there wasn’t much depth among position players.
Not sure if that’s a carryover from the Schuerholz era, a priority of Wren, or just a byproduct of the guys who worked under Roy Clark and have remained with the team.
Schuerholz would deal young pitchers for position players, not always to good effect. We’ll have a better idea of the real Frank Wren now that Bobby is not in the dugout. I’ll guarantee you Cox had a lot of input over the composition of the roster. And the old man loved his pitchers.
Yeah, that’s right. The minors are filled with promising arms and not many position players, and this goes back awhile. Even when they brought McCann and KJ and (ugh) Franceour to the majors the same season, there wasn’t much depth among position players.
Not sure if that’s a carryover from the Schuerholz era, a priority of Wren, or just a byproduct of the guys who worked under Roy Clark and have remained with the team.
Schuerholz would deal young pitchers for position players, not always to good effect. We’ll have a better idea of the real Frank Wren now that Bobby is not in the dugout. I’ll guarantee you Cox had a lot of input over the composition of the roster. And the old man loved his pitchers.
Wow! You are exactly right! Like Scott isn’t that good! He will probably get a big raise via arbitration (he’s alraedy at $4 million) and he is more of a DH than an outfielder anyway. His value is in the American League. He is also going to be 33 next year, which is kind of old.
so you want Tehren for Scott?
I’d pay Samuel to yell in my face before they would do that.
“While Wren didn’t rule out free agents Jayson Werth (bats right) or Carl Crawford (bats left), he noted that both are likely to be expensive.”
Translated this means: “my bosses are too cheap to pay for high quality free agents so I will be required to scrape the bottom of the barrel for the leftover scrubs”.
I don’t agree with that. Two years ago, the Braves had the 4th most expensive free agent signing in Derek Lowe (and the top non-Yankee signing after Teixeira, Sabathia and Burnett.) They also spent $23 million signing Kenshin Kawakami, the 12th largest contract that year. The returns on those deals haven’t been good, but that’s on the players and GM, not Liberty Media. They aren’t throwing cash at the Braves, but they certainly aren’t what I’d call cheap.
You’re comparing apples and oranges. That year we were working under the same budget, we just had a ton of money come off the books all at once. The problem was that at the time of those deals, we had one proven starter: Jurrjens. Hanson hadn’t thrown a major league inning yet, Smoltz looked done, Hudson was still out with TJ surgery, and no one, as usual, knew how good Vazquez was going to be. The chatter at the time was that JJ should be a 3-hole starter and that Vazquez could probably realistically be relied on as a 4th starter. We needed an ace, and Lowe had a record with the Dodgers of being a remarkable consistent 15+ game winner with a mid-3 ERA each season. We were hurting so hard for pitching depth we had no choice but to sign those guys. Now that McLouth has turned to a massive pile of suck and we’re relying on a promising but unproven Freeman to fill the black hole at first, we’re aching for just on consistent big bat. But the two best options will most likely end up in either the Bronx, Anaheim, Boston, or Chicago.
You’re comparing apples and oranges. That year we were working under the same budget, we just had a ton of money come off the books all at once. The problem was that at the time of those deals, we had one proven starter: Jurrjens. Hanson hadn’t thrown a major league inning yet, Smoltz looked done, Hudson was still out with TJ surgery, and no one, as usual, knew how good Vazquez was going to be. The chatter at the time was that JJ should be a 3-hole starter and that Vazquez could probably realistically be relied on as a 4th starter. We needed an ace, and Lowe had a record with the Dodgers of being a remarkable consistent 15+ game winner with a mid-3 ERA each season. We were hurting so hard for pitching depth we had no choice but to sign those guys. Now that McLouth has turned to a massive pile of suck and we’re relying on a promising but unproven Freeman to fill the black hole at first, we’re aching for just on consistent big bat. But the two best options will most likely end up in either the Bronx, Anaheim, Boston, or Chicago.
Jurrjens + prospects for Matt Kemp.
really, that is horrible. He’s horrible defensively. His bat is a question. He’s basically a more hyped version of Nate McLouth.
Kemp was excellent defensively until this year. I almost wonder if there was some injury that contributed to his down year both offensively and defensively. And he hit 28 home runs and stole 19 bases this year in his “down” year. Last year he hit .297, had 26 home runs and stole 34 bases.
On top of all of that Jurrjens is a good young pitcher but he is not an ace or anything. Trading a #3 type pitcher and a couple of decent prospects for a good young outfielder with power makes sense to me.
JJ and Mclouth, lol, i think its fair…
Trade Arodys Vizcaino, Zeke Spruill, Christian Bethancourt and Adam Millgan for Shin-Soo Choo.
Trade Jair Jurrjens and Nate McLouth for Alex Rios, Matt Thornton and $6M cash.
Sign Javy Vazquez 1 year $5M.
Sign JJ Putz 1 year $4M
Call it a day.
That isn’t enough for Choo.
I wouldn’t want to be caught in the whole Choo-might-need-to-leave-because-of-military-obligations thing. It’s terrible that that might happen but baseball is a cutthroat sport and I wouldn’t want to spend on him and possibly lose him. I really hope he doesn’t have to go. He’s representing his country over here.
I’m pretty sure that’s been discussed before on the message boards, and if memory serves, it is very unlikely that he has to serve in the military.
last I heard, South Korea has to win the Asian Games gold for baseball for him to be excused. I don’t think many of yall really understand geography or history if you believe that this guy is just going to get a free pass from his military duties. South Korea is bordered by an insane country, hell-bent on destroying them. Even Dirk Nowitski had to return to Germany for his military duty, you don’t think Choo will have to? I wouldn’t bet my farm on it…
Interesting…. IDK if the white sox would do it, but who knows?
How about a Hanson, Jurrjens,and Mclouth deal for Rameriz, Cashner,Jay Jackson, and Josh Vitters? haha
hahahahahaha.
thank god the first person jnew it was a joke haha
Alright the people here have been talking about moving Tommy Hanson… your opinions are wrong.
JJ? maybe… but I think it would be best to keep him, unless we get a good OF
Kawakami? Go ahead and trade him… even if we get nothing in return…
Lowe? Solid, Clutch, Innings-Eater. I say just keep him.
So we should have next year…
Hudson, Hanson, Lowe, Jurrjens (Probably), Medlen, Minor
..and we’re not going to get Crawford or Werth…
it sure would be great though… we could use Crawford’s speed… or Werth’s power… or just their not-being-Melky-Ankiel-Diaz-or-Mclouth factor…
Let Walk/Get Rid Of: 2 out of 3 of their outfield platoon players (Melky, Ankiel, Diaz), and let Farnsworth go…
you realize Medlen had Tommy John surgery right?
Hanson is one of the best arms in the game, again top 10-12 tRA. Had tough luck and a horrible defense.
Lowe is expensive but I don’t mind keeping him. Defense has let him down so much and now that TP has been demoted from Hitting coach to Infield Instructor, I hope he gets the infield going better.
We aren’t going to get either Werth or Crawford. Too much money, and Atlanta isn’t the spot big name FA want to go anymore.
Our rotation will probably be: Hanson, Hudson, Jurrjens, Lowe, Beachy/Minor. Minor gave the Braves a scare with his fatigue comments at the end of the year and thus found himself off the list of people on the playoff roster. Not sure he did himself any favors so he is my biggest question mark.
damn… I was aware that Medlen had Tommy John surgery… but I forgot/wasn’t think about what kind of injury it was when I wrote that…
good thing I forgot about Beachy entirely as well…
Alright the people here have been talking about moving Tommy Hanson… your opinions are wrong.
JJ? maybe… but I think it would be best to keep him, unless we get a good OF
Kawakami? Go ahead and trade him… even if we get nothing in return…
Lowe? Solid, Clutch, Innings-Eater. I say just keep him.
So we should have next year…
Hudson, Hanson, Lowe, Jurrjens (Probably), Medlen, Minor
..and we’re not going to get Crawford or Werth…
it sure would be great though… we could use Crawford’s speed… or Werth’s power… or just their not-being-Melky-Ankiel-Diaz-or-Mclouth factor…
Let Walk/Get Rid Of: 2 out of 3 of their outfield platoon players (Melky, Ankiel, Diaz), and let Farnsworth go…
i would love to see ATL make a run at Kemp, and have him play LF. a RH LF who could hit 30 hrs, seems like what we have needed for a while.
I’d like that too, but I think he’d play center. I think we may have a Diaz/McLouth platoon in LF next season.
I’d like that too, but I think he’d play center. I think we may have a Diaz/McLouth platoon in LF next season.
i would love to see ATL make a run at Kemp, and have him play LF. a RH LF who could hit 30 hrs, seems like what we have needed for a while.
This made me LOL!
“Trade Jair Jurrjens and Nate McLouth for Alex Rios, Matt Thornton and $6M cash.”
What crack do you think Kenny Williams is smokin?
The best suggestion on here involves trading for Kemp. Problem with that is the Dodgers know they would be selling low, and don’t seem to be inclined to do so.
His career -10.8 UZR in CF scares me but we are discussing him in Left field where he has put up an Adam Dunn-like -38.2.
He’s terrible in the field and only time I want him in Turner Field is when his team is visiting the Braves for an away game.
You do realize you’re talking a UZR/150 mark, not a UZR, and that is only based on a scant 17 plays he made all the way back in 2006? Talk about ridiculously small sample sizes…
All indications are that his defense this year was an aberration; he’s been close to league average in center for his career, and I’d bet money that the down year is due him allowing all the off-field stuff that swirled around him this year to get under his skin and affect his performance. The numbers indicate he’d probably be at least a league average defender, and possibly better, in LF if played there all year, plus he seems ripe for a change of scenery. If it doesn’t cost Hanson, Teheran, or Freeman, I think the Braves owe it to themselves to take a long hard look.
okay. then I hate his -28 UZR in Center Field. He’s had 3 full years of data to go on. 1 below average. 1 about average. and 1 absurdly terrible. There is absolutely no data showing he will be any better in CF and is a huge question mark as his total as an OF in general is below average significantly. Then account for the fact that he is making more contact, sriking out more, walking less, and yet somehow hits more home runs and put up a lower wOBA, there isn’t much data to go on that he pulled a Jeff Francouer and was decent at the plate for a couple seasons and has started a decline.
if anything using your logic, then Nate McLouth would be the obvious choice. Below average defensive CF that has shown a little upside at the plate. Only one played in LA and got hype. The other was in Pittsburgh.
You’ll notice I didn’t recommend that he play center; what I actually said was that he could be league average or better in left field. With the exception of this year, which again looks like an outlier, he’s hovered right around league in center or right field for his career. There’s no reason he couldn’t play average D from LF.
And there’s no comparing Kemp and McLouth. Kemp’s track record is much better on both sides of the ball; McLouth has been significantly worse defensively than Kemp, even rating as the plus/minus system’s worst centerfielder in 2008, and he had one standout year in 08 and has been mediocre or worse every other year.
This made me LOL!
“Trade Jair Jurrjens and Nate McLouth for Alex Rios, Matt Thornton and $6M cash.”
What crack do you think Kenny Williams is smokin?
The best suggestion on here involves trading for Kemp. Problem with that is the Dodgers know they would be selling low, and don’t seem to be inclined to do so.
The Twins seriously need pitching, so they could match up well with the Braves. Spann had a down year and is signed for several years to a backloaded contract, so he could be a gamble down the road but he could be the kind of player we need. Delmon Young had a very good year and is arbitration eligible for three more years. His defense is poor but hey, we need a left fielder. He is also only 24 years old so he should continue to improve his power production.
I think Delmon would be hard to pry away after his great year. I was in support of getting him last offseason before he showed his potential this year. I believe we talked to them, but they wanted Yunel and we declined. Too bad we can’t go back on that one…
Getting rid of Kawakami is an obvious need. If we could just give him away or get a very small piece back and eat some of Kawakami’s salary that would be sufficient.
As crazy as this would’ve sounded all the way up until about a month ago, we should keep Lowe. Dude wants the ball in big games and performs. We want to win a championship and we can’t get rid of a guy like that, even though he may be overpaid. Plus, he’s a new pitcher now. I’m a little dumbfounded it took him and McDowell so long to figure it out, but better late than never! You hear that he’s a huge creature of habit, so it probably took a while to get him to buy into a new gameplan. He reminds me of Pettitte, you don’t always know what you’ll get during the season, but when the playoffs hit you’re damn glad you have him on your staff. Plus that competitiveness rubs off on the other guys.
Not surprised to hear the Jurrjens for Kemp talk. I’ve been thinking of it lately, not a bad idea. Love Jurrjens, but I wonder if he hit his ceiling last year with his ERA at 2.60. I’ve never been that impressed with his slider and think that hitters might be able to adjust to the fastball/change combo over time. Plus, he looked out of shape this year. What if he turns into Livan? Haha not likely. Jurrjens for Kemp would be low sells for both, but I really think more for Kemp. We can sell that Jurrjens wasn’t healthy this year to explain his drop in performance. Kemp still had solid numbers, but didn’t equal ’09 and him and his agent caused problems for the Dodgers. I expect Kemp to return to ’09 numbers, and possibly even better. He’s a super athlete with a great future.
Not sure about LF. Not too excited about a McLouth/Diaz platoon, although I think it will be hard to get rid of McLouth. Crawford and Werth don’t look too promising to sign with us. I think we’re gonna have to get creative. Don’t forget that Prado has played the OF and probably can handle left. That would be an interesting idea if we had the chance to get a better 2B than LF. I know people will bring up Uggla, but doubt it will happen. Loria hates us after Cox’s comments and will ask for an arm and leg for him just like Cody Ross. Speaking of the other Braves killer, Ross might be a good piece for LF if he doesn’t ask for more than $4-5 mil.
Sorry for the novel. Excited for this offseason, I think it will be a busy one for the Braves!
I am all for Delmon Young, if we can’t do this then Kemp. I agree Werth and Crawford are beyond Braves reach…
Agree with thr Ross option for 4-5MM/yr as well. Please Wren, let’s do better than a Glaus trade this off season!!
Agree with thr Ross option for 4-5MM/yr as well. Please Wren, let’s do better than a Glaus trade this off season!!
Children , children , as we all should know (as per this year and historically) “You can’t have enough pitching”! I like you are worried about the offense. Will the Hay-Train find a way to adjust ? I think he is a smart young lad and his sophomore should rival his last in numbers. He may be three years out till his potential is met. Thus a question mark in Right, Center and left. Why trade Kawakami if you get nothing? His Psyche was burnt down in the first half when he received (basically)no runs on several quality starts. Some people can’t recover from this. Kawakami could fill a #5 spot and I think it is only correct for the braves to insert a lefty in the rotation somewhere. Maybe Minor or ? Thus three holes are left. Will it be Hanson,JJ,Hudson, or Lowe. The only demanding any return would be Hanson. With Medlen scheduled to return mid-year Hanson and prospects could return a front line player and a future pick. When Lowe’s contract expires MAYBE Tehran will break through to the show. So even though you can’t have enough pitching , if you score a few runs it can make anyone look better than his numbers or get old Mo on his side and get on that roll every pitcher needs!
No way they trade Tommy, get real. It’s a waste of time even talking about it, not happening!
What a bunch of nonsense.
Now that the pitching is in hand per my last tirade it is time to turn to the rock em drop em offense. I don’t know if Ross can play anywhere else than catcher but we got a lot out of him this year and I would like to squeeze more out of him. I don’t want to make him an error waiting to happen but if our next baby phenom doesn’t work out at 1st he might be a back-up (a reach I know)! But just be sure to sign him! I’m sure Chipper will give it a gallant effort at third but I don’t want to swallow another half a year waiting for offense. Glaus has had it and if Hinske could play there he would have but evidently no confidence was ever given in that move. Prado will hit his normal 307 and continue to drive balls farther than we all thought. He will drop into what ever “Black-Hole” left standing! Gonzales and Infante will be sign-able and will be the cheapest way out. Sweep out Cabrera,Ankiel ,keep Matty Diaz and as always platoon him with Hinske.
If there is a broken down old man who use to play for the Knights and breaks bulbs on the light tower 400 plus feet away (and is right handed) sign him up Frankie ! I see no hope in the minors as per position players so as you may have read earlier Its Hanson for any of the below:
Alex Rios Chisox
Colby Rasmus Redbirds
Adam Jones O’s
The older possibilities are: Pat Burrel, Vernon Wells or a guy names Jones in Texas??
I did not mention trading or releasing McLouth because I thought he was a comer but I still think he has trade value so if the Hansen for somebody doesn’t work out throw a McLouth on the fire!
Ross still has a year of arbitration left. He is kind of expensive ($4.5 million) so he will probably be pushed up into the high 5’s if he isn’t non-tendered. He upped his value considerably since coming over to the Giants so I would imagine they will hold onto him.
I really hope those Douchenozzles Liberty Media sell the Braves before Hanson and Heyward reach free agency. Otherwise we will have to becomes Yankees fans to cheer for them.
I wanted Kemp for JJ this past year. We really have a surplus of top starting pitchers. Try to trade KK for C figgins, Seattle fans love japanese imports, he can play 3rd because Chip Jones is bound to go down again next year. Sign Glaus for another incentive driven salary. Do not even mess with D Lowe, I think if he hears rumors from everywhere that he’s not welcome in Atl he will demand a trade, then the Braves will only get peanuts in return. Keep Diaz around, he is a fan favorite and could provide an adrenaline shot of energy. And I like the Idea of spreading Chippers money out over time.I wouldn’t give up on Mclouth just yet, lets see him for the first 4 weeks of the season and then evaluate the situation.
I really wish we could go after Carl Crawford or Jayson Werth. The money needed would get in the way of the extensions we’re going to need to be handing out soon though…
Ok, just a thought. Why are most of the ideas some of you are coming up with centered around us trading pitchers when the title of the article is about the Bravos wanting to keep arms?
It’s a Jedi mind trick by Wren. He’s going to deal JJ, or at least one of the guys in the minors not named Teheran for a big bat, and we’ll all say, “Never saw that coming!”
I would be fine with trading JJ, we have Beachy, and Minor (who hopefully gets back in form next year) I wouldnt be surprised if Beachy, or JJ get traded.
I don’t know if anyone has thought of this but what about Kawakami for Nick Johnson….two contracts of the same value expiring at the end of this year and Johnson could either try to re establish value and possibly platoon with Freeman?
If the Yankees don’t want Johnson’s $5.5M salary, they can simply decline his option. The Braves wouldn’t be willing to pay him any more than they paid Hinske last year to do the same thing.
Besides, we already have good on-base guys. We need guys who can drive them in.
if you cant sign the big free agents in werth and crawford why not sign jeremy hermida…. he hasnt done anything great yet, but he is still young and since we have a new hitting coach coming in maybe he can help him out a lot. he isnt our solution… our solution will come via trade. but hermida will be a beast one day. i would like to see him in a braves uniform one day. so dangit sign him to a minor league deal and let him be the future left feilder.
On a minor league deal, maybe. He’s on a Franceour-like decline right now. Don’t trust him.
I knew I would get a raise outta a few with the Hanson trade but no one else is gonna get someone good in trade! Yes the Article is the Braves “prefer” to keep pitching but it means: “for consideration” not that they won’t CHOOSE a bat that they NEED much worse than pitching! I do believe Tommy will give a team a front line starter ( a #1 or a #2 hopefully he will stay in Atlanta) They also have him cheap. Knowing the Braves they will give up Kawakami or Lowe and get very little in return or keep them and go get the cheapest stop Gap Outfielder available! With this logical conclusion we are stuck with McLouth , Heyward and a long-shot in left! No speed is coming no youngster with promise, so a repeat of last year is evident and I might just keep my MLB TV money!
I see us matching up with Seattle. I believe that if Seattle would be willing to eat a couple million a season, a Kawakami & and mid tier prospect for Chone Figgins would be in line.
Ik my opinion does not have much weight in life but here is what i think the braves should do: first off since im optimising i would like the braves to try and make a oush for crawford at lets say 6/96-98.5 mill a year. But once that falls through They should try to trade for a player like torii hunter or matt kemp and we could aqquire them with some major leaguers and one or twoo good/above good prospects for example jordan scafer brandon beachy and lee hyde for kemp or schafer breachy and stephan marek/ eric oflahrty and a good hitting prosepct for hunter. then i beleive that mcclouth might have a rebound yr but if he does not sign hinske and diaz or even scott pods just someone with speed and someone who can hit.