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Ozzie Guillen For Mike Stanton Trade Was Discussed

By Ben Nicholson-Smith | October 29, 2010 at 4:47pm CDT

4:47pm: Williams told MLB.com's Scott Merkin that the Sun-Times report is “false,” but declined to go into further detail because of rules forbidding executives from speaking about other teams’ players. "That's tampering," Williams said. "All I can say is the report isn't completely accurate." Merkin hears that the White Sox demanded compensation from the Marlins when they wanted to talk to Guillen.

9:56am: The Marlins did not discuss an Ozzie-Stanton trade with the White Sox, according to Joe Capozzi of the Palm Beach Post (Twitter link). The White Sox may have discussed the possibility internally, but it seems to have been wishful thinking on Chicago’s part. As the response to our poll shows, Stanton is far more desirable.

4:56am: When Ozzie Guillen was at odds with the Chicago front office earlier this year, there was discussion of a deal that would have sent the White Sox manager to Florida for 20-year-old slugger Mike Stanton, according to Chris De Luca of the Chicago Sun-Times. De Luca reports that Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria was intent on making Guillen the Marlins’ next manager until Guillen met with White Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf and agreed to return in 2011.

Guillen says he never spoke to the Marlins about managing the team, but he confirmed to the Sun-Times that the White Sox granted the Marlins permission to talk to him. White Sox GM Kenny Williams repeated that he is on good terms with Guillen and insisted his manager is staying put.

''Ozzie is the manager of the White Sox next year and I hope the next 10 years after,” Williams said. “How many times do I have to [bleeping] say it?''

Guillen is under contract with the White Sox next year and he expressed interest in an extension at the end of the season, but did not sign one. Stanton batted .259/.326/.507 with 22 home runs as a rookie this year and is under team control through 2016.

Though manager-player exchanges are exceptional, there is some precedent for them. Eight years ago today, the Devil Rays sent Randy Winn to the Mariners after Lou Piniella left Seattle to manage in Tampa.

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View Comments (87)

Comments

  1. elscorcho the marlin

    12 years ago

    just last week david sampson said that “mike stanton is our future”, and has made many public statements about his importance that was before his call up. i don’t think the marlins would let him go for a manager, even if they love the manager. just seems far fetched.

    Reply
    • Dave_Gershman

      12 years ago

      They aren’t trading him…

      But it sure would have been nice to see a Minaya and Manuel for Grady Sizemore swap.

      Reply
      • Infield Fly

        12 years ago

        ….And Jeff Wilpon shoulda thrown himself in for free.

        Reply
        • Dave_Gershman

          12 years ago

          Along with Fred

        • Infield Fly

          12 years ago

          Collect ’em all!!

          >:)

        • Dave_Gershman

          12 years ago

          Gotta catch em all

  2. FriedCalamari

    12 years ago

    has there ever been trades like this in recent MLB history? Manager for player? Seems kinda lolz if it ever has

    Reply
    • Backup_Slider

      12 years ago

      Manny Sanguillen for Chuck Tanner and $100K in Nov 1976 is one.

      Reply
    • j6takish

      12 years ago

      The Dodgers traded a player for Ernie Harwell

      Reply
    • AB

      12 years ago

      The Mariners traded Pinella to the Rays for Randy Winn.

      Reply
      • FriedCalamari

        12 years ago

        lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

        Reply
    • dc21892

      12 years ago

      It says in the article Pinella for Winn.

      Reply
      • FriedCalamari

        12 years ago

        I don’t think it was there when it was first posted. Otherwise I wouldn’t have asked but yea

        I guess I also could’ve missed the last sentence

        Reply
        • AB

          12 years ago

          It wasn’t there at the time.

  3. Henry Castellanos

    12 years ago

    Wow…

    Boy the White Sox missed out on that one

    Reply
  4. TheBunk

    12 years ago

    It’s 6 am, i’m just going to assume this is a product of my sleep deprivation and not in fact real.

    Reply
    • venn177

      12 years ago

      I’m thinking the same thing. Been up since noon yesterday, 6am now, and I’ve got work at 11. Sleep deprivation is getting to us both.

      Reply
  5. Andrew B

    12 years ago

    is this a joke?

    Reply
  6. jwredsox

    12 years ago

    I’m guessing it was just internal discussions within the White Sox Organization and they never went to the Marlins about this because it would go no where.

    Reply
  7. Boywonder

    12 years ago

    I actually just got up from my couch to go check the calendar to make sure it’s not April Fool’s Day in some other country like Canada or something…this is the most unreliable POS that’s ever been posted on this usually informative site.

    Reply
  8. Tko11

    12 years ago

    Wow…I never knew you can trade a manager for a player. Either way Ozzie Guillen for Mike Stanton would have been horrible. Mike Stanton is looking like hes on his way to becoming a good player.

    Reply
  9. SpaldingBalls

    12 years ago

    Please say this wasn’t true. How could you decline the top young player not named Heyward for a manager when you have a replacement in-house?

    Reply
    • Andrew Meeds

      12 years ago

      Heck, even if you don’t have a replacement in house. A manager isn’t THAT hard to find… A guy like Mike Stanton? Whooo.

      Reply
    • BravesRed

      12 years ago

      What about Posey?

      Reply
    • tsizzle

      12 years ago

      Who is the in-house replacement? Joey Cora? Yikes…

      Also, consider the source. Chris De Luca is a complete moron. His major league source was probably some guy in a bar claiming to work for the White Sox. I highly doubt this would even be a discussion for the Marlins. Seems counterproductive to me. Bring in a manager, weaken the team for years?

      Reply
  10. MadisonMariner

    12 years ago

    Just an FYI that I’ll post here rather than respond to a few of the individual posts(such as Tko11’s post), but a few facts for clarification:

    a. Officially, you can’t trade managers for players in MLB. Mostly because managers aren’t governed by the rules spelled out in MLB’s CBA(Collective Bargaining Agreement), unlike players. So, trading them straight up for each other hasn’t worked for a while–it used to in the old days, as the above examples show, but that ended as a result of one of the CBAs in the 80s or 90s. Can’t remember exactly when.

    b. Unofficially, you can get around this restriction, as the example of the M’s allowing /sending Lou Pinella to Tampa a few years ago show. How does this happen?

    Well, in Pinella’s case, the M’s gave the then Devil Rays permission to talk to Lou Pinella, who at the time had 1 year left on his contract, if I recall correctly. When all went well and the Rays wanted him, the M’s allowed him to resign(i.e. quit) and he was hired by Tampa immediately.

    Tampa and Seattle had discussed compensation for allowing Tampa to take Pinella as their manager. The Mariners wanted then Rays’ OF Randy Winn, so the Rays agreed, and a trade was negotiated that would send Randy Winn to Seattle. In return, the M’s sent a prospect in their system to Tampa named Antonio Perez(I think that was his name). Of course, the Rays could have just put Winn on waivers and allowed Seattle to claim him, but that might not have worked, since other teams can in turn try to block the claim or claim Winn for themselves on waivers, which would kind of thwart the whole deal. Thus, an official Winn for a prospect trade had to be set up to officially get Winn to Seattle as part of the compensation for the Devil Rays getting Pinella.

    So, to sum up: Officially, it was not a manager for player swap. Unofficially, yeah..it pretty much was. And I think the White Sox would’ve had to do much the same thing to get Stanton back as their compensation, had the deal gone down.

    (And Larry Beinfest and Michael Hill should thank their lucky stars that it didn’t go down.) 😉

    Reply
    • Griffin

      12 years ago

      Good Post… I was unaware That mangers were not covered under CBA.

      Does this mean we will never see a Player/Manager again (Pete Rose Circa 1985)

      Reply
  11. Jessamynn

    12 years ago

    This is a little off topic, but for a refresher course I just looked up the White Sox 2005 WS-winning roster, and it’s pretty crazy that they won it all despite having only 2 of their 9 everyday hitters to post an OPS above .800; none of them scored 100 runs, none hit .300, no one had more than 100 RBIs.

    The rotation featured Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland (and his career year of 18 wins), Contreras, El Duque. Closer was Dustin Hermanson, of all people.

    Just thought it was kind of interesting that they won 99 games (and the WS) despite no one having a crazy year.

    Reply
    • ukJaysfan

      12 years ago

      Long answer short – it’s a team game. You usually find that the team that rides a hot player or two into the playoffs doesn’t succeed.

      Reply
    • BravesRed

      12 years ago

      Kinda reminds me of the 2010 SF Giants. Except, there’s a few differences.

      Reply
      • Jessamynn

        12 years ago

        Right, that’s basically why I looked them up — every now and then, there’s a team such as the 2005 White Sox and 2010 Giants that just kind of reminds me that once in a blue moon, all of the projections and metrics in the world just don’t really matter when it comes to taking home the title.

        Reply
        • Bill

          12 years ago

          Actually, during the ’05 postseason the White Sox rotation was more dominant than the ’10 Giants, but this year’s SF bull pen is crazy good.

          The Giants runs scored to runs allowed ratio is right up there with the commonly accepted “big boys” of baseball and when they got out into the weaker pitching cities they put runs up on the board. When you compare them to the Phillies on that basis, the Phillies were only 16 runs better than the Giants in ’10. So while in simple terms of runs and OBP, they do not look so good, they hit for average, and they also take walks when it is appropriate. So it was easy for Sabermetrics people to look past them.

          The Giants won 88 games in ’09. They were prohibitive favorites to win the NL West this year although all of us NL West fans who watched the division play out last year felt that the West was going to be a 4 or 5 team shootout all year. (That was assuming that the D’backs would have pitching, which they didn’t. But it did turn out that in early Sept., that 4 NL West teams were still quite in it.) So it really shouldn’t be all that surprising that the Giants are doing well. I like Sabermetrics, but I feel it fails to put non-offensive performance into proper perspective, and so it leaves saber-junkies confused and searching for explanations for a team like the Giants.

          One truth that you point out though is that good pitching will almost always overcome good hitting in the post season. There are plenty of examples of this in recent history. Detroit beating NY and Oakland. Marlins beating NY. And actually, even though they never won anything, the Moneyball A’s were really a pitching centered team as well.

        • Jessamynn

          12 years ago

          Right — I was more-so just taking a cursory glance at the numbers, and noticed that there weren’t any really obvious outliers in the SP (aside from Garland’s win total), but yes, I do remember that the White Sox pitched well that year.

    • rockfordone

      12 years ago

      Rotation had Mark Burhele and closer was Bobby Jenks

      Reply
      • Soxman17

        12 years ago

        There were actually 3 different closers on that team, which is another oddity for a WS winning team. Season started with Shingo Takatsu as the closer, then he got shipped back to Japan. Hermanson took over in the middle of the year, but injuries put him on the shelf. They called Jenks up from AA in August, put him in the closer’s spot, and he blew people away all the way through game 4 of the WS. Remarkable.

        Reply
    • tsizzle

      12 years ago

      They did have “crazy” years, they were in the bullpen, though. Games were literally shortened to 6 innings for the most part and those 6 innings were dominated by the starting rotation. Dustin Hermanson, Cliff Politte, Neal Cotts: all those guys pitched out of their minds that year. That’s the nature of the bullpen.It goes to show you that pitching will always trump hitting. Take note, New York Yankees. I mean, you keep games close, that’s how you ‘new heroes everyday.’ It’s not rocket science.

      Reply
      • Jessamynn

        12 years ago

        Yes, you’re right. I do remember the Sox pitching very well that season.

        I was just more-so making a quick observation about how it was interesting that the Sox won 99 games despite not really hitting THAT well — I feel that it’s a little unusual to get so close to 100 wins mostly on pitching.

        I’m not looking at their team batting stats or anything, so I could be completely wrong in that maybe the Sox DID hit well in relation to the rest of the league.

        Reply
      • Jessamynn

        12 years ago

        Yes, you’re right. I do remember the Sox pitching very well that season.

        I was just more-so making a quick observation about how it was interesting that the Sox won 99 games despite not really hitting THAT well — I feel that it’s a little unusual to get so close to 100 wins mostly on pitching.

        I’m not looking at their team batting stats or anything, so I could be completely wrong in that maybe the Sox DID hit well in relation to the rest of the league.

        Reply
    • klassic

      12 years ago

      Actually the White Sox closer that year started as Shingo Takatsu (he of the frisbee pitch). Then when he sucked they went to Dustin Hermanson. Then he got injured and the called up a relative unknown in Bobby Jenks.

      Reply
  12. SpecialEd

    12 years ago

    this would have been one of the worst trades in baseball history. I thought the Marlins wanted to trade away aging players, not young players. Stanton is a star of the future too. this just would not have made sense.
    maybe the players were mixed up and it should have been Cody Ross who was a Marlin at the time.

    Reply
  13. The_Silver_Stacker

    12 years ago

    haha I must still be drunk

    Reply
  14. Moebarguy

    12 years ago

    I assumed from the headline it was the reliever, Mike Stanton–since any other Mike Stanton would be ludicrous.

    Reply
    • Henry Castellanos

      12 years ago

      I wouldn’t have given up MS in his prme years with NY. Those were some great years.

      Reply
  15. moonraker45

    12 years ago

    I heard during the doc trade talks that the phillies would have included dom brown if cito was included.

    Reply
    • myname_989

      12 years ago

      No, it was Dom Brown for Cito Gaston, Hockey, Canadian Bacon, maple syrup and all of those other favorite Canadian pastimes.

      Reply
      • moonraker45

        12 years ago

        You’re right, so the complete trade was

        Jays get: Dom Brown, D’Arnaud, Taylor, Drabek, The philadelphia flyers, and Will Smith

        Phillies get, Hockey, Roy Halladay, Cito Gaston, Canadian Bacon, a tub of Maple Syrup and a crate full of those tennis racket shoes.

        Reply
        • myname_989

          12 years ago

          Hahahahahahahahha. You can have Will Smith, but Flyers hockey is gonna cost you!

        • moonraker45

          12 years ago

          fine we’ll throw in free health care if you send us 2002 Allen Iverson

        • myname_989

          12 years ago

          DONE! Lmao

        • Henry Castellanos

          12 years ago

          Where’s the Philly cheese steak

        • myname_989

          12 years ago

          Hahahahahahahahha. You can have Will Smith, but Flyers hockey is gonna cost you!

        • woadude

          12 years ago

          you forgot the tub of moose meat.

  16. Matt

    12 years ago

    Hey Cardinals- Cito Gaston for Colby Rasmus?

    Reply
  17. dizzle4

    12 years ago

    A little bit different, but Billy Beane almost traded himself to the Red Sox in exchange for Kevin Youkilis.

    Reply
  18. $1529282

    12 years ago

    I assumed this was just a play on the present-day Mike Stanton’s name and was actually referring to the former MLB reliever of the same name and Ozzie back when he was a player.

    Wow… crazy thought, but I can’t imagine the Marlins would really have ever gone for it though. Seems way too far-fetched. Stanton is a monster.

    Reply
  19. moonraker45

    12 years ago

    Travis Snider for Joe Maddon?

    Reply
  20. marlinsdoit

    12 years ago

    That’s the craziest thing…ever!!

    Reply
  21. moonraker45

    12 years ago

    Mike Trout and a good link on some pure columbian snow for ron washington?

    Reply
    • YanksFanSince78

      12 years ago

      Low blow. Oops…..did I mention blow? My bad.

      Reply
    • YanksFanSince78

      12 years ago

      Low blow. Oops…..did I mention blow? My bad.

      Reply
  22. moonraker45

    12 years ago

    Jose Bautista’s Beard for Mike Scioscia

    Reply
    • Henry Castellanos

      12 years ago

      Replace Bautista’s beard with Brian Wilson’s and then I’ll think about it

      Reply
  23. $1529282

    12 years ago

    I wonder if the Twins have thought about trading Carl Pavano’s mustache for Evan Longoria. It’s about as plausible.

    Reply
  24. $1529282

    12 years ago

    I wonder if the Twins have thought about trading Carl Pavano’s mustache for Evan Longoria. It’s about as plausible.

    Reply
    • Motor_City_Bombshell

      12 years ago

      I actually heard that Carl Pavano’s mustache projected as an all-star at the hot corner, and he’s got really soft hands, and can you picture him sporting a blazer with the rest of the team? He’d be epic for that clubhouse.

      Reply
      • $1529282

        12 years ago

        Even if Pavano walks, I hope we can at least work out a five- or six-year deal with that stache.

        Reply
        • Motor_City_Bombshell

          12 years ago

          Even as a Tiger’s fan, I would not be too upset to see that happen. 🙂 Hahaha

        • Motor_City_Bombshell

          12 years ago

          Even as a Tiger’s fan, I would not be too upset to see that happen. 🙂 Hahaha

      • $1529282

        12 years ago

        Even if Pavano walks, I hope we can at least work out a five- or six-year deal with that stache.

        Reply
  25. Guest

    12 years ago

    That’s some serious wishful thinking on Kenny Williams part right there. Why not just go for the home run and include Bobby Jenks if they’ll throw in Hanley Ramirez

    And this just needs to be said…Carl Pavano has the coolest mustache of all time. Ramon Vazquez gave him a run for his money a few years ago, but Pavano’s is just amazing

    Reply
  26. Guest

    12 years ago

    That’s some serious wishful thinking on Kenny Williams part right there. Why not just go for the home run and include Bobby Jenks if they’ll throw in Hanley Ramirez

    And this just needs to be said…Carl Pavano has the coolest mustache of all time. Ramon Vazquez gave him a run for his money a few years ago, but Pavano’s is just amazing

    Reply
  27. schellis

    12 years ago

    If that deal actually happened, Loria should be forced to sell the team and Selig should be forced to resign.

    No manager is worth a player even half Stanton’s caliber.

    I could see it for being someone like Cody Ross back in his Marlin days, or someone that the team is likely either not going to resign, is someone like Winn who while a productive player at the time in question was also likely blocking a kid that was ready now. Winn likely had minimal trade value, but had a time left on his deal that really wasn’t movable, or a AAAA type such as Nelson Cruz a few years ago. Sometimes these players can shake the label and become well Nelson Cruz, other times they can’t and become Brandon Larson.

    But to trade a young player with Stanton’s talents for any manager would as scummy as trading them for a boat load of cash. That was shot down by the commish when the 70’s A’s tried to do it, and Selig would need to step up and do the same to this if any form of this deal were to happen.

    Career class A player for Stanton and we “fire” Guillen so he can sign with you.

    Even if Guillen were to find the fountain of Youth while working for the Marlins he wouldn’t be worth Stanton.

    Reply
  28. schellis

    12 years ago

    If that deal actually happened, Loria should be forced to sell the team and Selig should be forced to resign.

    No manager is worth a player even half Stanton’s caliber.

    I could see it for being someone like Cody Ross back in his Marlin days, or someone that the team is likely either not going to resign, is someone like Winn who while a productive player at the time in question was also likely blocking a kid that was ready now. Winn likely had minimal trade value, but had a time left on his deal that really wasn’t movable, or a AAAA type such as Nelson Cruz a few years ago. Sometimes these players can shake the label and become well Nelson Cruz, other times they can’t and become Brandon Larson.

    But to trade a young player with Stanton’s talents for any manager would as scummy as trading them for a boat load of cash. That was shot down by the commish when the 70’s A’s tried to do it, and Selig would need to step up and do the same to this if any form of this deal were to happen.

    Career class A player for Stanton and we “fire” Guillen so he can sign with you.

    Even if Guillen were to find the fountain of Youth while working for the Marlins he wouldn’t be worth Stanton.

    Reply
  29. WhenMattStairsIsKing

    12 years ago

    Does the article talk about how hard Florida laughed at the Sox?

    Reply
  30. RiverKKiller999

    12 years ago

    What kinda idiot thought of this trade?Can you even imagine how hard the Marlins are laughing right now?

    Put Gordon Beckham in the trade and then the Marlins might start talking .

    Reply
  31. woadude

    12 years ago

    this is almost as funny as when Boston wanted Stanton as part of the Manny Ramirez trade.

    Reply
  32. ludafish

    12 years ago

    Manny ramirez for mike stanton in 2008? No no no…wait, ozzie guillen for mike stanton in 2010? GET ON THE PHONES! seriously look at all the proposed trades in recent years that the marlins didnt execute cause teams wanted Stanton and this is the one that makes headlines? wow…

    Reply
  33. CommissionerBart

    12 years ago

    Marlins ownership is obviously crazy. Ozzie is like a pair of concrete overshoes for the White Sox and the turmoil he creates distracts his team from performing as well as they can. He’d be even worse with the younger, more distractable Marlins.

    Reply
    • Baby_Bartolo

      12 years ago

      Ozzie has stated numerous times that he is trying to distract the media, not the team. There are flashbulbs in his face when things are down, but never in the locker room when the players are heading home.

      Reply
  34. mrmet128

    12 years ago

    whoa! i never even knew player for manager trades were possible until i read this.

    anyway, even if this proposal was real, the White Sox would of easily won that one. it could possibly be one of the stupidest things the Marlins would ever do.

    Reply
  35. Chris Solberg

    12 years ago

    I can’t stop laughing….my belly aches!

    Reply
  36. vtadave

    12 years ago

    As a Dodgers fan, I’d love to proposed the following deal to any of the other 29 teams:

    Ned Colletti for a janitor to be named later.

    Reply
  37. Ferrariman

    12 years ago

    i bet the conversation went something like this:

    Kenny:” hey, i here you guys like ozzie guillen”
    marlins: “yeah, were definitely interested”
    kenny: “yeah well we want him gone! err…i mean..he is gonna cost you”
    marlins: “how much?”
    kenny: ” how about that stanton kid”
    marlins ” -no dial tone-”

    end of story.

    Reply
  38. roberty

    12 years ago

    This is one of the weirdest rumors i’ve ever seen. Ozzie Guillen can hardly play shortstop anymore. Why would anyone trade a top slugging prospect for him?

    Reply
  39. roberty

    12 years ago

    Maybe they meant former Atlanta Braves closer Mike Stanton?

    Reply
    • RICHARD

      11 years ago

      Since when does he play for the Marlins?

      Reply

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