The Braves will be facing extra pressure this offseason as the team tries to recover from its September collapse. Here's the latest from Turner Field….
- "There is some sentiment within the organization that Atlanta might be better off dealing Jason Heyward," writes ESPN's Buster Olney (Insider subscription required). Heyward suffered through a difficult sophomore season and as a result, "there are voices within the franchise asking the question of whether he can be counted on" as a long-term building block. I'd say that there's little chance the club gives up such a promising young talent, though as the Yunel Escobar trade showed, the Braves aren't afraid to deal a quality player if they feel the player isn't a fit. The Braves would be selling low on Heyward, though they would still recoup a nice return given his reputation and impressive 2010 rookie season.
- Chipper Jones says the team's September failure hasn't affected his decision to return in 2012, reports David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
- Fredi Gonzalez confirmed that the entire Braves' coaching staff will return next year, reports MLB.com's Mark Bowman.
- The Braves don't require a major overhaul, opines Fangraphs' Eno Sarris, though he suggests a few position switches that could improve the team's defense.
- ESPN's Jim Bowden (Insider subscription req'd) agrees that the Braves don't need to shake up their roster and suggests that Atlanta could be one of the top suitors for Jose Reyes. Bowden also notes that the Braves have fewer looming issues than their September collapse partners in Boston: "While age and a barren farm system dim the Red Sox's upside going into 2012, the Braves have a much brighter outlook."
“There is some sentiment within the organization that Atlanta might be better off dealing Jason Heyward,” writes ESPN’s Buster Olney
Fire Frank Wren if this is actually being discussed.
Because he’s the 2nd coming of Hank Aaron right?
Give me a break. There’s talk like that EVERY time a prospect fails. He was so bad this year that he was benched in the middle of a pennant race. They have every right to question his future in the organization.
no they dont
He’s 21, for crying out loud, and makes close to the major league minimum. There’s no downside to giving him another chance when the Braves would essentially be giving him away. Even better, give him and his teammates another hitting coach.
8/9/1989…22, but that’s besides the fact.
I don’t think you can say Heyward has failed. He’s had one season were he’s shown tremendous potential, and one injury riddled sophomore slump in his age 21 season. I don’t think there should be any question whether he deserves another chance. Many good and great players have bad second seasons… there’s a reason there is a name for it. It’s ridiculous how people have already given up on him. He’ll be entering his third season at only 22.
2011 counts as his 21-year-old season, so you’ll commonly see people call him 21 because his birthday was relatively late in the year.
-C
If your sophmore slump includes 700+ OPS at an age most ballplayers are in AA, then you most certainly deserve a chance to prove your worth. Frenchie and Yunel were very aggressive individuals who tended not to control their emotions on the field. Frowned upon in the Braves organization, Heyward has shown complete maturity and just needs to adjust his swing which he can do I’m sure.
Where would the Braves be now if they had kept Francour and Escobar…
this is almost exactly the kind of crap people were saying about justin upton as recently as this offseason. how’d he do this year?
they aren’t normal prospects. the leash should be a mile long
i dont see the braves being in on Jose Reyes when we already have a leadoff in Bourn and isnt Pastornicky the shortstop of the future and wont he br ready by 2013? i think they should spend the money on other places
LOL @ Tyler Pastornicky being the SS of the future.
Pastornicky hit .314/.359/.414 between AA and AAA this year, which is pretty impressive considering he is only 21 and the average age in the Southern League is over 24 years old.
3,2,1… ring
Wren: Yellophone, yello.
AA: It’s Alex, how ya doin’, buddy?
Wren: Yesterday was pretty tough.
AA: Yeah, I saw that. Hey, I have something shiny here.
Wren: Wow!
AA: Just give me that disappointing guy. What’s his name-Howard or someing?
Wren: Heyward.
AA: Right. That guy.
Wren: Done!
I somehow doubt that we will trade Heyward. The kid is an absolute stud that just needs to work on when to be aggressive and when to be patient. A healthy shoulder may help as well. I also don’t see us signing Jose Reyes because Tyler Pastornicky is on his way and he’s pretty darn good. A year of Triple-A and then he should be up for 2013.
I don’t mind hearing the rumors, it might motivate Heyward, but if this happens. Screw firing Wren, get me some tar and feathers.
You don’t give up on a 21yr old who’s already been an All-Star
Having a minor league journeyman bumping him to the bench and taking his starting job for about a month didn’t really seem to motivate him to play much better down the stretch so do you think trade rumors will? Only Heyward can motivate himself, not Jose Constanza, trade talk, or anything else except maybe divine intervention.
Quick, Red Sox! Throw your crap at Wren and see if it sticks!
1. Escobar SS
2. Morrison 1B
3. Bautista DH
4. Heyward RF
5. Lawrie 3B
6. Rasmus CF
7. Arencibia C
8. Snider/Thames LF
9. ??? 2B
Make it happen AA
Meh, better to move Bautista to LF. Not too many people fear the arm of Thames, and Snider’s arm–while decent–isn’t in the same league as Bautista’s. Better to have Snider DH or to trade him at this point.
Bautista’s arm might be better but he has below average range. With snider taking a big step forward with his defense this year(the only thing he really improved on) and Jose getting older I would rather have Snider in left.
Why do you think that your GM can just trade for whatever player he wants? The Heyward trade talk is total BS. The braves fanbase would never forgive them for trading him.
Don’t trade Heyward, fire Larry Parrish instead. For that matter, fire Fredi Gonzalez for opting to bring back Parrish (along with the numerous other transgressions).
well uh yeah you gotta tip your cap to them
Larry Parrish will disappear when Chipper decides to retire as I see Chipper coming back as the Hitting Coach and possible, eventual Manager.
Overhyped and the pressure got to Heyward. He already has shoulder issues as a 21 year old and for some nagging reason I’m not sure if his knees will hold up either.
Overhyped?
.277/.393/.456 with 91 walks vs 128 ko along with 18 hrs and some speed……as a 20 year old? Even in a bad season he still managed to draw 51 walks and came close to his rookie season hr total in 130 fewer AB. The guy is only 21.
All aboard the crazy train. Ticket please?
All I ever saw him do is weakly ground out or strikeout. His numbers were horrible. He had a bad season. Of course he’s only 21, but he may benefit by going to the minors and adjusting his swing.
go look at his minor league numbers
go look at his major league numbers last year
now go back to being grateful you have that talent on your team
Buster Olney’s source is Alex Anthopolous
We need runs. I don’t care how we get them.
It would be extremely foolish to even consider trading Heyward let alone actually trading him IMO.
Why am I not surprised that Gonzalez doesn’t have the guts to fire any of his coaches. It’s pathetic being a Braves fan watching this collapse and knowing that NOTHING will change in the organization. It’s like they don’t even give a damn.
IMO it takes more guts to come out and say your are sticking to your staff or scapegoating them in your first year. This shows loyalty in them and trust in their ability to adjust. Only problem is Wren is the one with the final say
IMO it takes more guts to come out and say your are sticking to your staff or scapegoating them in your first year. This shows loyalty in them and trust in their ability to adjust. Only problem is Wren is the one with the final say
Trading Heyward would be one of the dumbest decisions in a long time
Probably no worse than Rasmus for Corey Patterson or vernons contract for something somewhat useful.
Oh come on. While I am not a fan of the Rasmus trade, it obviously wasn’t for Patterson. Your post is foolish. Edwin Jackson has been arguably the Cardinals best pitcher for the last 7 weeks and Scrabble and Dotel have been very good out of the pen. The only reason Patterson was thrown in the deal was to have someone who could play center field on the bench.
There is also more to this deal that we don’t know yet.
Yes, I’m sure those 3 PTBNL’s will be highly meaningful.
Who knows, probly not. But I was more referring to the draft picks they will pick up for Jackson leaving. Colby Rasmus was the 28th(pretty sure) pick in the draft. The Cardinals will get two picks not too far off from that same position back.
Jackson is a type B FA. The Cards will get 1 pick, probably mid 40s, for him. Dotel is a type A. Unfortunately, I doubt a team would give up a 1st for him. Or he’d turn down arbitration.
While the trade might look bad in coming years, the Cardinals don’t make it to the postseason this year without it. Not like Rasmus has done anything useful in Toronto the last 2+ months, but Jackson and the other pieces have easily been worth a few wins.
If you guys make it to the World Series, that probably makes it a worthwhile trade for the Cardinals despite Rasmus’ future production.
It depends what you got in return. I’d trade him for Jurickson Profar.
“Long time” = signing Lowe for 4 years, signing Kawakami without having thrown a pitch on North American soil, benching Jose Constanza in favor of an unconfident Jason Heyward, or pitching to Hunter Pence with a runner on 1st & 3rd with 2 outs knowing Pence is lifetime 2-for-3 vs. your pitcher (Linebrink) when you have a sub-.200 hitter hitting behind him (Michael Martinez)? Please take your pick.
How about I pick your decision to make a sad and pathetic attempt at comedy?
Or maybe your failed attempt to find the facts or seem them as comedy. They’re just facts, friend.
How about I pick your decision to make a sad and pathetic attempt at comedy?
“Long time” = signing Lowe for 4 years, signing Kawakami without having thrown a pitch on North American soil, benching Jose Constanza in favor of an unconfident Jason Heyward, or pitching to Hunter Pence with a runner on 1st & 3rd with 2 outs knowing Pence is lifetime 2-for-3 vs. your pitcher (Linebrink) when you have a sub-.200 hitter hitting behind him (Michael Martinez)? Please take your pick.
I would trade Heyward in a heartbeat. All he does is hit groundballs to 2nd base or strikeout and play below average defense with a horrible arm.
While I agree with the weak groundouts, we should’t trade him. And his defense isn’t that bad. Besides him ALWAYS losing the ball in the lights.
Did you actually just say he has a horrible arm? Have you ever even watched him play?
It’s a cannon, but his accuracy has been lacking. I love his range, which is the most important defensive consideration, but players are not afraid to take extra bases on Jason.
Both UZR and DRS have agreed that his arm hasn’t been great…only Seth Smith and Carlos Quentin have been worse with their arms in right, going by DRS, while UZR arm components puts those two as well as J.D. Drew, Corey Hart, and Justin Upton as being worse.
What is consistent is Heyward being below average with his arm.
-C
I don’t think they’ll deal Heyward but, how can any of you say fire Wren if he even considers it?…wouldn’t you have to see the return before making that determination.
The Braves biggest problems are the 30 million bucks they have to pay Chipper and Lowe next year. They don’t have any big holes to fill. They need a SS and still really need a power hitting corner OF but then that pushes Prado or Heyward out.
I could see Prado being moved with a pitcher if they could get a LF that swings it…problem is, there isn’t much out there that would be available in a trade. He is due a raise in arbitration and hard to pay him that much he turns back into a utility player. Willingham or Swisher (if option declined) could be signed as FA, but don’t love either one.
Dump Lowe even if you eat most of his salary. If you save 3 million, thats better than paying him 15 mil and watch him lose 16-17 games again. Minor, Delgado, Medlen, Teaheran will outperform him for league minimum.
Medlen is the forgotten man in all this. He is a quality pitcher that nobody really talks about and I am sure he will be in the rotation next year. JJ could be traded also, he is due a raise in arbitration and could also be replaced by one of the above.
We’ll give you Aybar and Wells for Prado and Lowe.
Probably not a bad basis for a trade if cash was kicked in to even out the salaries a bit…
I think we need to hold on to Prado. He will be our insurance when Chipper finds himself on the DL. He may not be the power bat we could use, but if Uggla can have a slightly better season next year he can be that power bat.
Prado is our answer at third when Chipper retires, plus we’d be selling low by trading him now.
Why don’t we hear anything about moving Prado back to 2B where he showed range and move Uggla to LF? It’d take an even bigger man to admit his fallacies, as Uggla has defensively at 2B. He’s just not agile enough. I’m not sure about his arm, but it can’t be much worse than Prado’s.
Unless Heyward starts to show something even close to all the superstar predictions he was given before he even played his first game, they gotta do something. He was pathetic this year. Even in his rookie year, minus this debut game, I haven’t seen one thing consistantly from him that gets me excited. The guy grounds out to second more times than any player I’ve seen, is constantly hurt, and has shown zero power. You look at the guy and he looks like he should be bashing the ball. What the hell is wrong?
Reyes would be an interesting addition. Not sure yet what I think. Whoever they go after, they need someone who can get on base and drive in runs. Their embarrassing collapse was due to their pathetic Sept offense. I love Chippet, but he’s starting to become a bit of a Brett Favre. Ties the teams hands by taking up the 3b spot. Not that he hasn’t deserved it and isn’t still producing decent numbers, but it hampers their ability to build.
I love it when people over exaggerate. Heyward put up a .277/.393/.456/.849 line, 18 HR in his rookie season. 5.1 WAR and came second in his rookie voting as a 21 year old. What a bust, right?
Yeah he’s had a rough season but he’s also been injured and it probably explains why he is popping up at a ridiculous rate and hitting less line drives than last year. Even in a absolutely terrible year, he still managed to put up a 2.2 WAR.
Please, for the build up that he got there’s nothing extremely special about that rookie stat line. And coming in second in the ROY means jack. Whoopee, you wanna go thru the list of some past winners. Now if you build off of that season and improve the numbers, that would be a different story, instead he couldn’t even be trusted as an everyday starter the second half of the season. That on a team that was 11th in the NL in offense in the second half.
And you can save your cyber-metric crap. I go by what I see with my eyes watching practically every game in person or on tv. Grounder to second, grounder to second, can a corn to short, seeing eye single. That’s what I consistently saw from him this year.
And what I said was if you don’t see some improvements next year, they gotta do something. What part of that is over exaggerating?
Hey everyone! Look at matt, the professional scout! He doesn’t need statistics to make up his mind, he just uses his imagination instead!
A 21 year old posting a nearly 400 OBP in his rookie season does not seem “extremely special” to you? What warrants that label? was he supposed to be Pujols or Foxx? Come out of the gate and hit .330 with 35 HR? God forbid the young man actually experiences some growing pains. I mean, how many baseball players who are good were not very good MLers by the time they were 22?! Get this bum out of here!!!
You know a lot about baseball.
If you would quit being such a “fan”atic and put down Moneyball for a minute, you would read what I said. When you follow up a good rookie year with the pathetic season he had this year and then follow it up with another one like that, they can’t afford to do anything but explore other options. Especially with the offense they have right now. They can’t afford to take up an outfield spot and only get what he gave this year and next in return. Sad but true pal. It doesn’t take a scout to realize that. So take off your rose colored glasses and hope it doesn’t come to that.
Hey everyone! Look at matt, the professional scout! He doesn’t need statistics to make up his mind, he just uses his imagination instead!
A 21 year old posting a nearly 400 OBP in his rookie season does not seem “extremely special” to you? What warrants that label? was he supposed to be Pujols or Foxx? Come out of the gate and hit .330 with 35 HR? God forbid the young man actually experiences some growing pains. I mean, how many baseball players who are good were not very good MLers by the time they were 22?! Get this bum out of here!!!
I am glad you found the internet in your tried n’ true ways. I think the point has been made that with stats as good as Heyward had in ’10 when he was healthy some of the time (until the wrist injury), you can’t dismiss that by drastically lower stats in 2011. We gave Francoeur, what, 4 seasons?
We were better with Heyward in 2010 (5.1 WAR) than with Franceour. All this labeling of him being the next Hank Aaron is beside the point. It’s not like the kid was calling himself that, that was all on the media. It’d take too much time and energy to deflect labels than to just accept them and go about your business. Fact is, he’s got to be the next Lonnie Smith before he can be the next Henry Aaron. I’m fine with somewhere in the middle.
The team tied their own hands by giving him a bad contract.
fasd
If the Braves trade Jason for scraps and keep Larry Parrish then they are idiots. The entire team regressed under Parrish yet there is discussion that the problem is with Jason. Give me a break!!! Jason is 22 years old. He will be fine IF given proper instruction.
I guess if Freddie, Craig and Brandon struggle next year then there will be talk of trading them too.
Some fans are too stubborn to understand the term “sophomore slump”. They just immediately start calling for ridiculous trade scenarios without any consideration of what it could do to us as an organization. Because didn’t you know real life is the exact same thing as MLB ’11 The Show?
Jason Heyward for the Chicago Cubs!
Even in a struggling year Jason was an average outfielder (wRC+ of 98). I guess being the 10th best outfielder in baseball as a 20 year old rookie isn’t very exciting…..or having one of the top OBPs as a rookie that young in history.
What does last year what to do with anything. Sure, very nice rookie season. For the hype, I’d would have expected closer to Braun or Pujols numbers instead of closer to Todd Hollandsworth. Improve on the numbers, not cut them in half.
If there’s “sentiment within the organization” that Heyward should be dealt, then the organization should be taken out and shot.
I would trade Michael Bourne for a bat and go after Reyes for short.
Why would we trade one of our hitters for another hitter? Perhaps we should trade Hanson for a SP and Kimbrel for a closer as well.
Wow… Really? Are you being serious? He was only Atlanta’s most consistent player since August 1, He is only one of the best defensive outfielders in the league, he is only one of the best baserunners in the league. Yeah good call and over pay for a injury prone SS who quits. In your dreamland though, who plays CF next year? Jordan Schafer? Since most Braves fans still think he is in AA
Wow… Really? Are you being serious? He was only Atlanta’s most consistent player since August 1, He is only one of the best defensive outfielders in the league, he is only one of the best baserunners in the league. Yeah good call and over pay for a injury prone SS who quits. In your dreamland though, who plays CF next year? Jordan Schafer? Since most Braves fans still think he is in AA
I would love to see the dodgers trade andre ethier for heyward…i kno its a long shot…but could make some since.
It makes no since at all for the Braves. If they are moving Heyward they would want a lot more than a lunatic that slumped this year as well.
Freddie Gonzalez is to blame for the Braves offensive failures this season. Wren replaced Troy Guas, Omar Infante and Melky Cabrera with Dan Uggla and Freddy Freeman and despite the upgrades, the 2011 Braves scored only 641 runs, down a whopping 97 runs from the 738 they scored in 2010. The last time the Braves scored fewer runs was the strike shortened season of 1994. Freddie manages to score one run at a time, constantly giving away outs to advance runners, killing any possible big inning before it has a chance to begin.
if i even say this some dodger fans will get mad at me since they love ethier . but i would love to do ethier for heyword trade. dude could learn alot from kemp. who i say have alot of the same skills
Stop it.
Just getting Ethier out of L.A. for some kind of return would be wonderful. A return of Heyward somehow? Yes please.
Ethier doesn’t quite have as much fan support now as what he once did.
Reyes is such a wonderful idea, for no reason other than he’s made to hit second. Two guys at the top of the lineup capable of scoring 200 runs over a full season? That leaves timely hitting as our only problem which…well Freeman, Prado, and Chip are going to need to work on that.
Bourn CF
Reyes SS
Jones 3B (ugh)
Uggs 2B
McCann C
Freeman 1B
Prado LF
Heyward RF
If everyone is hitting right at the same time, there won’t be a OBP under .330 which is nothing to scoff at.
Unless you can promise to bring 15,000-20,000 of your closest friends for the next 5 years to games, I have no idea how where you think that Reyes’ money will be coming from even if Wren decides to pull the ole’ Yankees-letterhead-on-a-Braves-contract switcheroo with Reyes.
You do realize that Liberty Media made $6.5 billion dollars in profit last year alone, right??
They can open their pocketbooks if they want to. The Braves were supposedly “hamstrung” by finances to begin the year, but proceeded to tack on a few million in salary before year’s end.
Doesn’t mean they will, doesn’t mean they won’t…but to think that they can’t is not very bright.
-C
One of my rules in fantasy baseball: Watch out for the infamous sophomore slump.
i always wondered who’s rule that was.
People, and especially writers, suggesting the Braves sign Reyes (which really isn’t a bad idea) don’t know this team very well. Reyes does not fit the Braves profile. You think Yunel drove ’em nuts? Reyes is the original Yunel.
2011 braves look like the 2010 braves, fading down the stretch.
I don’t get why Jair Jurrjens or Tommy Hanson would have been started in the playoffs and not in the final week of the season.The braves already have a lead off hitter in bourn.Trading Heyward would be another dumb move the braves giving up on young talent. Lots of players have sophomore slumps. His line was still better than most players. They need a another veteran presence in the lineup. Lowe and his handcuffing of the yankees in 03 didn’t deliver in 2011. The braves have most of the pieces in place. Could just be team chemistry. They seemed so better before those late august deals. I hope the issue isn’t Freddie Gonzalez – his marlins teams always seemed so good in june and july and just faded.
Heywards line was not better than many players at all.
Was better than Martin Prado’s. Weird how people want to keep Prado, who had worse of a season than Heyward, yet want to trade the more talented 22 year old. It doesn’t make sense. Heyward deserves a long leash; most players his age would still be in minors. He played hurt for most, if not all, of the season… I really don’t think this season’s Heyward is the real Heyward. And anyway, it’s only his second season… kind of soon to give up on him, don’t you think? Many great players go through sophomore slumps… sophomore slumps were they’re healthy, unlike Heyward. I’d really hate if they Braves gave up on someone with so much talent, at such a young age, so soon. Doesn’t seem like a wise or logical thing to do.
When you move a guy from 2B to LF then ask him to play an occasional 3B, that could be a big transition. And with Fredi’s love of an ever-changing batting lineup, I can’t imagine where some consistency would do for Prado. The man was an All-Star at 2B and we moved him to LF (and 3B) for Uggla. Fine, but Prado’s arm is below-average (as evidenced by the sac fly to him in the last game vs. PHI). I think the only one that longs for Chipper to retire besides me is Prado. Then maybe he can have some finality and actually totally learn a position or a batting order spot. And no, based on the way he was hitting this year, he was batting leadoff and 2 for far too long. We relied on him way too much, partially when Chipper was out. With McLouth, Prado, Heyward, it seems as if the Braves really lack the ability to keep guys productive, which is problematic when we have the farm producing so much talent.
I like the idea of going after Reyes. When he gets hurt Pastonicky can step in.
yup, heyward is definitely getting traded. totally makes sense. oh, yea and did you hear? the marlins new stadium is made entirely of moon rocks. swear to god.
At the end of the day we have to move Lowe out of the rotation. In a division where your biggest competitor wins over 100 games, you absolutely, unquestionably can not afford to give 30 starts to a guy with a 5.05 era, 1.51 whip, and .285 baa. forget the lineup, forget the underachieving, forget the bullpen, and forget the manager. If around 1/5 of your games feature pitching that horrible, then there’s no way you can take this team seriously, not when they have options that have much higher upside. Swap him for a bad contract, put him in the ‘pen, or cut him. It really doesn’t matter. I know its not ideal, but pretending he isn’t a bad pitcher just because they dont want to admit they offered him a bad contract is only going to end up with more of the same results for this team at the end of the season.
out of the two positions they can upgrade the easiest, i’m gonna say LF is much more feasible. we have ss’s at practically every level in the minors, but don’t really have a ton of Ofer’s that are close. in other words, it might be more practical to sign a strong defensive stopgap ss and focus on getting someone with some power to play left. I like prado and think he’ll have a better yr next yr, but im starting to agree with moving him back to super utility simply because it would the team that much deeper. we know hes going to see time at 3b, and he can fill in for guys at several other positions. hes going to get at-bats. If they can upgrade both ss and lf, then awesome. however, if anything, i’d like to see more power from our of, but maybe thats just me.
Nice take on Lowe. Totally agree. However, if he does move from the rotation (40% chance of that happening) it’ll probably be to the bullpen as a long reliever (he was a closer for BOS when he was good).
As for Prado, I like him as a super-utility, but he showed too much promises as an everyday player at 2B in 2010 to not give him an extended shot at starting. It’d be interesting to see what he might could do at SS if he’s up for it, but I don’t want to move him anymore. He needs to stay somewhere, which is why I think he struggled this season: no consistency where he was at (LF, 3B).
Agreed with more power from OF. Even with a productive Heyward and/or Constanza, you’re only talking about a given 30-35 HR in a good year from the OF.