The Cubs and Red Sox could work out compensation for Theo Epstein today and announce the deal Friday, Peter Gammons of MLB Network said on WEEI’s Mut & Merloni show. Gammons also says the rebuilding process Epstein is about to undertake is “far greater” than the one he inherited in Boston nine years ago. Here are the latest rumors about Epstein with the most recent updates up top:
- The Cubs-Padres talks appear to be developing more smoothly than the Cubs-Red Sox talks, according to Morosi (on Twitter).
- There seems to be more optimism from the Red Sox today, according to Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe (Twitter link).
- Talks are going slowly and Boston’s asking price remains high, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com.
- The discussions were progressing well as of this morning, according to Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports (Twitter link).
- We heard earlier today that the Padres could lose a high-ranking front office member when Epstein starts hiring in Chicago.
I thought teams weren’t allowed to make any announcements while the World Series was being played.
Technically, there is no game Friday.
Technically the World Series will still be going on.
Technically, you are correct.
There’s no game that day. So the announcement can be made genius.
It was stated earlier that no announcement can be made during the World Series. Even though there is no game the World Series would still be going on. That is how it was interpreted. No need try and make someone feel like crap “genius”.
I believe they would have to get permission to announce anything on Friday, even being an off day.
Correct, and the new CBA is supposed to be out the same day.
I’ll believe that when I see it, but yeah, that would make it really unlikely that they are allowed to announce anything that day.
Cardinals are so good, they’re going to win the series in 2 games. Book it!
It’s suppose to be an off day, although the weather may change that.
This is apparently what happened with the Ricketts’ announcing they had officially completed the sale a couple years ago. Bottom line is they just asked MLB if they could announce it during a World Series off-day and MLB said yes, which is the possibility they’re likely talking about now.
Watching the Red Sox self destruct from almost every level is humorous. From the play on the field, in the dugout, clubhouse all the way up to the executive level is spectacularly self destructive. Then they ask for Garza??? LMFAO
What was the harm in STARTING the negotiations by asking for Garza? Nothing wrong with aiming high..
People seem to always forget the art of a negotiation before they decide to make their point about the ridiculousness of a request.
Red Sox: Highball
Cubs: Lowball
Final Deal: the Middle.
Let’s ignore common sense though… LMFAO they negotiated properly.
And I heard that ever since the Globe story, John Henry’s KFC location isn’t doing so well anymore either. Self destruction on every level.
Obviously, bc if you want to start a negotiations you concede all points and just ask for your safety school offer?
Did you learn how to negotiate from President Obama? Give up everything and then claim you couldnt get what you want?
Peter Gammons is the ultimate homer and well misinformed.
Misinformed how? Because he thought BA’s #48 prospect, Trey McNutt in preseason rankings would be Boston’s #25 prospect? Or that Brett Jackson hit from the right-side and played right field? Or that the Cubs prospect system is in the bottom 3 of baseball?
Does the dude even follow baseball anymore? Cause he’s making it sound like he doesn’t.
Trey McNutt is a 2-pitch pitcher and RP unless he improves a ton, Brett Jackson strikes out over 30% of the time in AAA. Players who strike that much aren’t special (See Tyler Colvin). The Cubs system is so bad mediocre prospects look like they have a ton of value.
K rate for jackson is 29.8, the k rate for middlebrooks is 30, is middlebrooks special?
He isn’t special… Don’t assume that I think Middlebrooks is awesome cause I’m a sox fan. If I was like that I’d be no better than godzillacub.
Point is the Red Sox system isnt so deep that McNutt would be the 25 best prospect in the Sox system. That’s being “misinformed”
Gammons should retire, he is no more than a puppet at this point!
Now now, to be fair Gammon’s just doesn’t want his boy friend to move to Chicago….
and filthy rich.
Let it be written; let it be done.
God I hope that this saga is over today and be announced on Friday.
I don’t want John Henry to have to pay for all those long distance calls from Boston to San Diego for the Chicago Cubs to have a new GM.
Long distance calls? Wait, hold on. When did we, as a nation, start paying for long distance again? I seriously thought they did away with that like a decade ago.
I seriously thought they did away with that like a decade ago.
From a office phone?
You are out there dude.
Especially from an office phone. Most offices were operating off of nationwide plans like fifteen years ago.
its better to skype anyways, whats the point of asking for a teams ace if you can’t see their faces when you do
Red Sox dont have Skype?
They would, but they’re really, really tight financially right now.
They’ve got to save in case they get stuck with Theo and the massive 6.5m sum they’d have to pay out.
Future headline: Padres wanted Castro for Hoyer
Lets just keep this ball rollin’!
I’m at the point where I could feasibly see this being the entire offseason for the Cubs.
Theo Epstein Rumors, Thursday, December 8:
*Talks are progressing, albeit slowly. While compensation has allegedly been agreed upon, there’s still the matter of what office supplies Epstein will be allowed to bring along.
Theo Epstein Rumors, Monday, December 19:
*The Red Sox and Cubs have finally come to an arrangement on compensation and an announcement is imminent.
Jed Hoyer Rumors, Tuesday, December 20:
*New Cubs GM Theo Epstein has made it clear that he is pursuing current Padres GM Jed Hoyer. Padres ownership is indicating that, as compensation for Hoyer, they are looking to acquire “whatever’s left.”
Jed Hoyer Rumors, Friday, December 23rd:
*Friars’ owner Jeff Moorad has not budged from his initial request of Hoyer for outfield prospect Brett Jackson, and talks have essentially reached a standstill. Both teams seem to be far away from an actual deal.
*Hoyer himself has openly criticized Moorad’s demands, stating, “This is the gonna be the worst Christmas ever.”
*In an interview with Bill Center of the San Diego Union Tribune, CEO Tom Garfinkel is excited that the Padres are actually being talked about this off-season.
I can believe
how the red sox feel apart this year. Here is the thing: the cubs have leverage
because if the sox take him back, he wouldn’t want to do anything for them and
the fans are probably the only ones who still have some respect for him since
he is from the Boston area. The only way the announcement can happen is for the
cubs to ask commissioner and he has to say it is okay, if he doesn’t it will
not be announced until after the World Series. I can believe how the red
sox feel apart this year. Here is the thing: the cubs have leverage because if
the sox take him back, he wouldn’t want to do anything for them and the fans
are probably the only ones who still have some respect for him since he is from
the Boston area. The only way the announcement can happen is for the cubs to
ask commissioner and he has to say it is okay, if he doesn’t it will not be
announced until after the World Series.
There’s a echo in your post.
and the Cubs if they walk will have to go to San Diego knowing they just blew all their leverage on Theo. So who has the leverage again? The team who has a GM ready to go or the team who has no GM and FA starts in less than a month?
Hmm…?
“So who has the leverage again?”
Bud Selig. If some of the crap going on in these threads is any indication, he’s about fifteen minutes away from stepping in and making the Cubs give the Sox Mike Trout just to get this resolved in time for Tim McCarver’s first idiotic remark of the World Series.
Trading a player that isn’t even from your team as compensation, now that’s a good deal! XD
Selig is just that powerful. If the Angels raise any objections, he’s making them trade Weaver for Brett Favre, whether he likes it or not. Little known fact, that’s actually the last deal Tony Reagins proposed before being shown the door.
Should retirement object to giving up Favre, Selig will force it to give back Pedro Martinez and before you know it the World Series is ruined.
I don’t understand why one year of a General Manager is supposed to be worth a top prospect. This whole situation is surreal.
Because it’s not just one year of a general manager. It’s also exclusive negotiating rights at this point instead of bidding for his services on the open market. That value of that is, of course, also debatable.
I think you’re imagining things: Trey McNutt is not a top prospect. Just because he’s one of the Cub’s better prospects means nothing in a farm as barren as theirs.
He was #48 in BA’s list prior to the season so it’s not like he hasn’t been positively compared to prospects from other organizations. Don’t pay attention to Gammons. He’s an idiot. The Cubs system isn’t great, but it’s not bottom three and McNutt would not merely be Boston’s #25 prospect.
That said, I think McNutt’s stock has slipped some since the start of last season. Perhaps it is just semantics. While I still consider McNutt a “top prospect” he’s not in that upper echelon of the “elite” prospects. I would let the Red Sox have McNutt if it got the deal done.
OK Peter Gammons.
No, really.
So after entering the year at a respectable 16th, and then having a good draft, they’re so void of talent? Hmmm… guess that half the league is screwed, eh?
you are using baseball america’s ranking, which is quite out of synch with the rest of the scouting world. the average ranking of the cubs farm system after the garza trade was 21st.
and the cubs didn’t really have a good draft. baez is a nice prospect, but overall the cubs took 3 high school position players and a college reliever in the early rounds. many teams did better and had better developmental years in 2011
gammons is wrong about their system and about mcnutt, but the cubs farm system is pretty clearly in the bottom 10
area
O…K….
Is there any chance this falls through and Theo remains with the Sox?
Always a chance but it is unlikely.
If that were to happen, I’d love to see a scenario where John Henry offered Theo an extension. Just to be a schmuck.
It’d be even funnier if he took it.
lucchino so annoyed by cubs negotiations and so committed to winning the argument that he makes theo co-CEO out of spite
yesplease
Less of a chance that Theo remains with the Sox (in anything but name only) than the deal falling through, but both are pretty slim chances.
Coming back as GM? No way. Coming back and then being given a title and shipped off to Siberia to collect his 7 million? Very likely
Fine, do that. Theo’ll just spend his time advising the Siberia Socialists in an off the books capacity.
I’m so relieved that there’s more news about this Epstein/Red Sox/Cubs/compensation affair.
Please, let it not end soon. My wife and I gave up our soap operas for this and will feel absolutely cheated if it ends so soon!
There’s a new Theo Epstein post every day and yet we aren’t actually find out anything new.
Theo Epstein Rumors: Tuesday
Theo Epstein Rumors: Wednesday
Theo Epstein Rumors: Thursday Morning
Theo Epstein Rumors: Thursday Morning.2
Theo Epstein Rumors: Brunch Special
Theo Epstein Rumors: Thursday Afternoon
What’s MLBTR supposed to do, ignore the story as it develops, albeit with small updates? They’re doing what they’re supposed to. This is a huge story that’s rarely been heard of.
i would enjoy a disclaimer at the bottom:
*No, we don’t care either. Just doing our jobs.*
Ive added that to my work email signature.
I say we give them Zambrano and pay part of his salary for compensation just to get rid of him…
Wow! Never heard that before!
Get back to your crosswords, Stanley. Be nice to the people.
I’m only happy on pretzel day.
See what should really happen is the Cubs should just get a list of all the prospects the Sox find intriguing, take that list and pick out three guys, put those three guys names on a piece of paper, mail it back to Boston with a note that says, “Shove it up your butt!”
Given your screen name I hope you find that amusing.
Thanks, but no thanks.
As long as you guys ake Lackey!
I actually wonder if it would be best for the Cubs to send Big Z + Cash difference for Lackey’s 2012 salary. I expect he could bounce back to form in the NL like many pitchers do. Sox could just cut Z if they don’t want him and save over 30MM over the next few years. The Cubs are going to need a pitcher regardless after Rickett’s statement about pitching his last pitch for Chicago. At worst, he would be a #5 starter. After Garza/Dempster/Wells it’s really iffy on the Cubs #4/5 pitchers.
What about the collusion in baseball, Theo and Hoyer and the Sox get Gonzalez, Alderson worked for Selig and the Brewers get K- Rod, and the Astros are in the 2005 world series, Wade goes to the Astros and know they are a feeder system for the Phils.
You mean that collusion that three Yankees fans have been imaging all day for some weird reason?
Did you, MikhelB and Century get together for your own Beerandchickengate today or something?
You are Obsessed with spewing out your BS opinions here. You must because everyone sees your comments on like 30 times outta 400+ yesterday.
What are you going to do when this Theo gate is over? Kick puppies and kitties.
You’re just mad you got left out. Don’t worry, I don’t think you’re a drunk, just a simpleton.
-I- think he’s a drunk. Just for the record.
Ask George Mitchell!
MLB is one big frat. Let’s not forget the Pirates were the Cubs “feeder system” for a while and Dave Littlefield, former Pirates GM, ended up on the Cubs payroll under Hendry (still is).
That is true, but the Pirates and Cubs weren’t in the playoffs this year.
“Talks are going slowly and Boston’s asking price remains high…”
Translation: Lucchino, John Henry, and the Red Sox remain stupid and Chairman Bud continues to allow the Red Sox and his boy, Lucchino, to suck all of the media oxygen out of the air and take the focus off of the World Series.
so true. i know i’ll be refreshing jon heyman’s twitter page instead of watching game 1
Better Translation:
Boston has realized that if the Cubs were just going to walk away from Epstein that they’d have done it a week ago, and that asking for a mid-range prospect like McNutt is really not that crazy. McNutt plus a lower prospect would be about what the Marlins sent for Guillen so there is definitely precedent, and it’s embarrassing that the Cubs won’t even give that much up. The Cubs are trying to sweat out Boston, but little do they realize that Boston has the upper hand right now.
Boston does not have the upper hand…never did. They will end up paying a lame duck GM $7.5mil to do nothing and get nothing in return for said lame duck. They will not get a top 5 prospect and don’t deserve it considering how much $$$ is being exchanged. Ricketts is a very smart business man and won’t get screwed. A bigger concern for the Sawx is a manager who can keep kfc and pabst blue ribbon out of the clubhouse and dugout…lol
7.5m for nothing sounds like chump change for Boston, they seriously do not care about the money.
They DO deserve one of the Cubs top 5 prospects in return for Epstein, for two reasons: 1. he’s already accepted a 5 year deal from Chicago so it’s not like this is just a one-year trade, and 2. McNutt, who Boston is targeting, is barely top five in the Cubs system, which is extremely weak, and he is a very flawed player. Trading one flawed prospect for five years of a sensible GM who can turn your team around is not an unreasonable trade at all.
As someone else posted a few days ago, Boston has two major choices right now: let Epstein go for pretty much nothing, or try to get something from the Cubs, knowing they’re risking getting nothing from them if they decide to go in a different direction. The first option -guarantees- they get almost nothing from it, while the second option has the possibility of getting some decent return. It still has the risk of them coming away with nothing, but they were gonna end up with that anyway if they backed down.
Umm the Red Sox own the rights to Theo’s contract. How is that NOT leverage?
I know Cubbies have delusions of grandeur, but if the Red Sox walk, who is your GM again? And how is that negotiation gonna be, asking SD for Hoyer and knowing you will have to give up B. Jackson, Carpenter and another player just to get to the negotiation table.
Another day of the Theo watch!!! Oh…the excitement! Good thing my wife bought me a portable defibrillator for my birthday. Right now both sides are like a tourist haggling with a local at a yard sale in Tijuana. Can’t wait to see what the outcome will be. Damn that WS getting in the way of important stuff.
For all the complaints about the World Series getting downplayed because of this, people need to realize that Texas/St. Louis isn’t exactly a marquee matchup from a ratings perspective to begin with. Sure, the real baseball fans and fans of the Rangers/Cardinals will be glued to the Series (Despite it being a ratings non-starter, it’s a pretty intriguing matchup), but if something like Phillies/Yankees was going on, this probably wouldn’t be nearly as talked about.
Did you see those ratings figures for the ALCS and NLCS? A PBS special on the mating habits of the Trenton Pigeon will probably pull in more viewers.
This is a WS for folks like us as the rest of the casual baseball world will give it a big yawn.
I was really hoping for a Brewers-Tigers matchup, which I think would have been much more interesting. With the Cards always being in or near the playoffs and with the Rangers there last year, this matchup feels a bit like a yawn to me.
Any matchup is interesting if your a baseball fan. When you have Pujols in a series it will always be interesting.
Unless it’s Yankees-Phils. Then it’s boring. 😉
I think the only reason Peter Gammons should stay in the business is for his informal tweets. I mean who could forget this gem? “@pgammo: Zzzz Z Z P So Pl”
just return him back to boston and let them deal with him. those bloody sox are showing their true colors.
Bc the Sox dont give into ulitmatums and threats? Yeah their true colors come through. Cubs will have it far worse if this deal does not work out.
Sox lose $7 million, Cubs lose 2012 draft class, FA signings and gain another year of losing to make it what now? 104?
gunsnascar, that’s an extremely hurtful insult to some people. Not picking on you, because it gets thrown around quite a lot, but please try and avoid it in the future.
because you seem reasonable I will change it to something else. no offense to you bud. just Obsessions
If I pretend to be offended, will you finally go away feeling fulfilled?
There is no upper hand. However, the Red Sox organization leaked this deal to the media in hopes of creating enough excitement among the Cubs fan base to pressure Ricketts. The fact that the Cubs did not give in to the Red Sox outrageous initial demands, and the two are still at the table, proves that the Cubs are better negotiators than you think. The Cubs are not winning anything in 2012. Therefore, there is no real urgency for team officials to give up more than they deem reasonable (even if it means some fans will be unhappy in the short term).
In the worst case scenario, the Cubs rebuilding is pushed back a year while the Red Sox pay Epstein to sit out the entire 2012 season because of stubbornness. Theo walks away refreshed and the Red Sox get zero compensation.
It is in the interest of both clubs to take care of this sooner rather than later but the idea that the Sox have leverage is born out of their propaganda machine…
is this thing still going on? what a boring “trade rumor”.
Tim needs to start a spin-off site called TheoEpsteinTradeRumors.com
other than the delay, the only thing i find annoying about this is all the squabbling it’s led to between cubs and sox fans. when the agreement was announced, i was bummed about theo leaving, but happy for the guy and pleased for the cubs as well. i’m still looking forward to seeing that turnaround take place
i’m also confident that negotiations haven’t been half as hostile as the exchanges around here. the two sides are more or less playing a prolonged game of chicken and that’s about it so far
I like Red Sox fans much more before the cubs lured your GM away from you.
Chris Deluca never has anything positive to say about the Cubs. In his defense, decades of Tribune company mismanagement has made many local media types sour on the Cubs front office. By the way, Crane Kenny is an idiot who knows nothing about baseball. It wouldn’t surprise me that he would tell someone he’s involved even when he isn’t… All that being said, words like “blunder” and “huge bargaining power” imply that the Cubs find themselves in a severely weakened position when that clearly is not the case. If it were, the Cubs would be leaking all kinds of information, to set fans expectations, that they HAD to do this or that to get Theo. Quite the opposite, they have been painting the Red Sox as unreasonable and seemingly getting them to focus on lesser talent.
Trey McNutt may have started the year as their number one MiL pitching prospect but he was hurt much of the year. The real news is that they have apparently moved the conversation away from ML talent altogether as well as Brett Jackson the Cubs number one overall prospect.
In the final analysis, if the Cubs give up a couple of middling prospects, equal to what the Marlins gave for Guillen, how could anyone claim the Red Sox had a significant advantage?
The only thing we have right now is a negotiation. If the Cubs weren’t offering something the Red Sox were interested in the talks would have ended days ago. Instead there are “sources” claiming things are nearing a conclusion.