Here are a couple of items to monitor on Tuesday, plus a link to submit questions for a live chat with MLBTR’s Steve Adams.
1. Mets’ losing streak
The last time the Mets won a game, the Artemis II crew was still in space. New York has dropped 11 straight after a sweep against the Cubs over the weekend. The club is back home tonight to face the Twins for a three-game set. Nolan McLean will get the ball with a chance to stop the skid. The Mets’ return to New York means we’re officially on Juan Soto watch. Manager Carlos Mendoza said the star outfielder would come back from his calf injury during the homestand.
2. Counsell bristles at Ohtani Rule
With pitching injuries mounting in Chicago, Cubs manager Craig Counsell shared his take on the two-way player rule, which allows teams to carry a pitcher who doesn’t count against the team’s total. “I’ve never understood it,” Counsell told reporters, including Patrick Mooney of The Athletic. “It’s an offensive rule, essentially. It’s a rule to help offense, more than anything, if you ask me. And then there’s one team that’s allowed to carry basically one of both, and he gets special consideration, which is probably the most bizarre rule. For one team.”
Players meet the two-way designation by pitching 20 innings and playing 20 games as the DH or in the field, with three plate appearances needed for those games to count. The requirements can be met in the current season or either of the two previous seasons. Teams are limited to 13 pitchers on the 26-man roster before September.
3. MLBTR chat today:
Our guy Steve Adams will be around at 1 pm CT today to discuss everything going on around the league in a live chat. If you have something to ask him, use this link to submit questions. Follow the chat using the same link, which will also provide a transcript of the conversation once it’s over in case you missed it.
Photo courtesy of Vincent Carchietta, Imagn Images
Hate the Cubs but hate Ohtani more.
Ridiculous rule for one player. If Ohtani doesnt come to MLB, the rule doesnt exist. Basically, special rules for the rich.
Totally agree. Was against it from day one.
Hate the Yankees, but hate sweet potatoes more….
Olm – I’m like a flower child, I love everything and everyone.
Counsell is right though. Every team is entitled to have 13 pitchers. Ohtani counts as a pitcher based on the number of innings he pitches on the year. They should not be allowed to have a 14th pitcher.
So you must REALLY hate Fried.
See what I did there?
Hate the Dodgers, but hate the Dodgers more.
Hate squash but hate olives more. And agree that there shouldn’t be special treatment. If a team had a player like that, sorry but they should figure out how to do it within existing rules, or otherwise it’s a unique advantage, since there’s really only one player like this currently.
Why shouldn’t having the single player in the last 90 years to play on both sides of the ball be an advantage?
I never really understood the limit on pitchers either. If a team wants 9 position players and 17 pitchers let them.
There are other guys who could do the mlb pitcher/hitter- the issue is the rest of them are 4th OF at best and/or 7th guy out of your bullpen. Ohtani is the only one good enough to compete for awards as both a hitter and pitcher.
Other guys will eventually come around, that is why the rule is what it is right now. The guy basically has to be developed internationally, since the way we do it in the US, you basically are at a level to push your ability and that is it- so guys who should be in AAA as a pitcher and A ball as a hitter will just stop hitting (happens with just about every 2 way player). You basically need to come stateside already MLB ready in both- otherwise they will abandon the other.
On the flip side, maybe we see players like Ankeil developed on purpose. Let him be a SP, but do not give up on the bat even in the bigs. Let him take BP, and work on those things. If he ever gets good enough with the bat- you can give them 20 games at DH.
Years ago, I don’t think there was much of an industry or a mindset of coaching up youth ballplayers to be professionals, you got your glove and played ball. Those who loved the game and were the best at it went on to have professional careers.
Today, youth athletes are coached up, specialized, with the goal of becoming a college athlete and/or a pro athlete.
The two-way player rule is what it is in regards to Ohtani. I like the rule as it is. It encourages the development of more two-way players.
I am sort of surprised that we haven’t seen the emergence of a two-way relief pitch.
A catcher that can play good defense, hit the ball, throw 97 mile an hour heater with a slider / changeup to give a team 40 innings out of the bullpen would be a game changer.
I feel like that player in particular will be developed by the “machine” of professional baseball athletes at some point.
If getting into professional baseball as a two-way player becomes a viable path, the “machine” will supply the players to fill the roles.
@No ABS
I think the rule should be that the 2-way player counts as a pitcher not a hitter. That is the only change that needs to be made to it.
The Dodgers are able to carry 14 pitchers were everyone else can only carry 13. Have as many hitters as you want to have on your roster. the other 29 teams that does not have Ohtani can only carry up to 13 pitchers.
@braves25
Totally agree. Especially since Ohtani is exclusively a DH on the other side. Effectively, he’s a pitcher that bats every day, as opposed to a position player that pitches every fifth.
Nothing is stopping the Cubs from developing their own 2WPs.. if it is this huge advantage, why not just develop it in your system?
In the last 20 years, how many two way players have there been? Of those how many have been successful at it. And I’m not talking about just pitchers who were capable of occasionally pinch hitting.
The reality is if you have a player who has the ability to go either way, it makes more sense to develop one talent over the other.
There’s a reason why Ohtani has been called once in a generation talent. In this case it’s not a phrase that’s been thrown around.
The Dodgers didn’t develop any of them either.
I think the biggest inequity with Ohtani is that the umpires give him extra time between innings to warm up. That is an unfair advantage. If he is on base when an inning ends—he is there as an offensive player not a pitcher. The clock should begin ticking at the time of the last out and it should be on Ohtani to be ready when that clock ticks down to start the next half inning.
Agree
This is not a new rule or new accommodation. Before the DH was added to the NL, pitchers had to hit and that’s why this accommodation existed. Any change would be removing something that was already in place for the entire history of the National League.
Until they remove the ability for him to stay in the game once he is removed as a pitcher, he is batting as a DH not a pitcher. If Freddie Freeman has to be ready in 2:45 so should Shohei.
If they want to remove his clause and once he is lifted as a pitcher and is out of the game—then give him “special” treatment.
Pitchers coming out of games and not being able to continue hitting or re-entering has also been in place the entire history of the National League.
You did say “before the DH”—that was not in place for the entire history of the National League.
Counsell has a point if a rule really only has an effect on one team let alone one player.
….not that they need it, but probably not a good time to poke the bear when the Cubs travel to LA in three days.
Every single rule change to baseball since that first game in Hoboken has been to favor hitters.
Because fanboys prefer 11-10 over 1-0 games.
Meanwhile soccer passed rules to protect the goalie years ago. Football is constantly changing rules to protect the quarterback. Somehow other sports have figured out who is the most important player on the field. Baseball?
source?
The Mets seem to have found a way to avoid a late season collapse this year.
It’s only the “Ohtani rule” because nobody else is good enough to be on both sides of the ball that well. It’s not his fault he’s a unicorn.
We don’t know if anybody else is good enough, because no one else ever got the chance on a full time basis. You can’t count when pitchers batted pre-DH, because none of them were allowed to really try hard. Managers frowned on pitchers running hard or putting in a lot of batting practice. But there have been many pitchers over the years that COULD have done it. MadBum comes to mind. But also German Marquez, Michael Lorenzen, Carlos Zambrano, Mike Hampton, and several others had the tools to becomes seriously good DHs if given the chance that Ohtani has been gifted.
What exactly has Craig Counsell won as a manger? What a tiny, tiny, tiny man…
Pathetic!
You sound like a girly man.
Pretty simple “fix”…which changes nothing…on the day Ohtani pitchers the Dodgers are only allowed 12 pitchers in bullpen roles. One must be “silently ineligible” to pitch on that day.
Simply, note the previous day starter as that person and move on. He isn’t pitching any way and there is no risk of a 27 inning game under today’s rules where you’re going to use everyone.
Rebuilding teams should take advantage of this. Like the Rockies could have Dollander and other young pitchers DH 20 times for them throughout their rebuild. Then for a couple years they can carry more pitchers.
$400 million payroll
11 consecutive losses
sweet baby jesus
When do the Stearns Watch and Mendoza Watch begin?
Artemis II was never in space! But it’s no conspiracy that the Mets suck
Don’t get anywhere near Buzz Aldrin, Ben.
There’s also a Yankees-Red Sox series starting tonight but nobody’s hyping it cos Boston are joint bottom of the AL East.
Another part of the rule that isn’t fair is that Ohtani gets to stay at DH when he leaves as a pitcher.
If anything, I’d like to see teams keep the DH spot even if the DH moves to another position. This would help teams when they have an unexpected injury, allow backup catcher to play as DH more frequently and maybe add to strategy.
The 2 Way rule is stupid. Putting a limit on the number of pitchers on a roster is stupid, too. Teams should be able to have as many or as little as possible. Why does it matter what position someone is listed at anyway?
I think the bigger rule issue is allowing Ohtani to stay in as DH when he is removed as the starting pitcher. If you want a 2 way player, then they should have to go to the field or come out of the lineup.
While we are at it, the rules for when allowing position players to pitch is also stupid. If a team wants to save their bullpen, the score or inning shouldn’t matter.
***Still looking for a replacement manager for the MLBTR Fans Fantasy Baseball League.
More info under yesterday’s Opener.
MLB will do whatever it can to protect their cheating cash cow in LA. I’m sure they will continue to come up with more rules just for him as long as he is in the league. Once he retires back to Japan and keeps all his deferred money without paying taxes on it they will change the rules back.
This is why expanding rosters by 1 player made no sense. It should be 28 man roster. 1 extra pitcher and 1 hitter. This would also be good if we ever have a 17 inning game.
They need to fully get rid of Manfred Ball. That’s a whole different argument.