Longtime Cubs third baseman Ron Santo was elected to the Hall of Fame today, announced the Baseball Writers Association of America. Santo was elected by the Golden Era Committee, a newly-formed part of the Veterans Committee, which exists for players not elected during their initial 15 years of eligibility. Unfortunately Santo was not around to witness his election, having passed away a year ago due to complications from diabetes. His induction will take place July 22nd in Cooperstown.
Santo hit .277/.362/.464 with 342 home runs in his 15-year career, mostly for the Cubs. He was known as as a strong defender. In a sabermetric sense, Santo tallied 79.3 wins above replacement according to FanGraphs. Santo later served as the Cubs' radio color commentator.
Thanks for waiting until he was dead. Classy Act Hall of Shame.
Agreed. Not only does it deprive a–by all accounts–fantastic guy the chance to enjoy this, but it sends the message that he wasn’t totally worthy–which he was.
It’s a shame, but the veterans committee is a joke, this is just in line with their idiocy.
Only one year too late for it to matter
about damn time
Sympathy vote. Didn’t deserve it at all.
Wow….his peak was outstanding. During his 10 year prime(while playing with diabetes) the only person that had more rbis than him was hank aaron. Yes I know a counting stat but still this guy was a great 3b and second only to brooks robinson for fielding.
Are you actually familiar with his playing career, or are you just going by his reputation? Like Blyleven, he’s a lot better than the narrative would have you believe. Like Blyleven, he belongs in the hall of fame, no matter what the flat Earth crowd tells you.
Right his stats make him top 3 3rd basemen of his era. Your obviously don’t know baseball.
Really? What do you base this off of? I don’t think you deserve to be able to post on things you have no clue about.
Way past due. Great player to represent the Cubs in the Hall.
Hey if Andre Dawson can get in then why not others who fall under the heading of “they were pretty good for their own time.”
Based on your logic, in 50 years, Babe Ruth’s numbers won’t warrant a Hall of Fame spot.
Yes, era DOES matter.
I think your logic is broken buddy
Not only do you seem to have missed my point but you also seem to be misrepresenting my point. Yes, time matters and for his time Santo seems to be simply an above average player.
As for the Babe Ruth comment… that makes no sense. In any era Babe Ruth’s numbers are staggering when you take into account he did what he did fueled on hot dogs and beer rather than steroids.
Take into account he was facing Baseballs’ greatest era of pitching & he’s not just “above average”
swp, you’re one of my favorite commenters here, but I think you may be speaking on this without reviewing the numbers. Santo put up 79.3 WAR (47th all-time), according to Fangraphs. He put up 66.4 WAR (105 all-time), according to BBRef. So depending on which standard you use, he’s somewhere between 20-48% better than the *mid-point* Hall of Famer.
He’s not a borderline case or a sentimental induction at all. He’s one of the 5 or 10 best players ever at his position, and one of the 100 or so best position players ever.
According to Fangraphs, he produced the 7th most WAR of *ANY* player during 1960-1974 (the years of his career), just behind Roberto Clemente and safely above Harmon Killebrew. Among third basemen, he was second only to Brooks Robinson. That’s hardly merely “above-average.”
Great reply.
You have to look at it from the era. If everyone during that time was hitting 400hrs(the 90s) hitting it isnt that big of a deal. you have to stand out in your time and be one of hte best in your generation.
I did look at the era and I’m still not convinced. I’m also amazed that the argument “look at someone in their own era” argument is usually only made by someone who wants it to back up their point. When people were mentioning Rice was feared and considered a top hitter in his era most people were still against him in the hall.
Note I’m not saying Rice should be in the Hall, just like I don’t think Santo should be in. There’s come a point where you have to start separating out the people who have been elected into the Hall into 2 groups: The ones who were not only great in their time but at least good in any time and those who were good in their own time.
This is why WAR can be so useful. Fangraphs’ WAR, for instance, has Santo as being worth 23.2 more WAR than Rice.
So if you think Rice is an example of a guy who was good but not good enough, what do you call someone worth 23 more wins?
(If you prefer, BBRef has Santo as being worth 24.9 more wins than Rice.)
And Santo has top 10 3B numbers of all time fueled by … Type 2 diabetes. To claim he isn’t deserving means you haven’t taken any time to look over his numbers.
Reply fail… was to the post by SWP
Terrific! Crying shame they couldn’t get this right while he was alive though. An all-time top 10 player at third base, and a treasure of a guy. RIP, Ronnie.
If I’m in the top 50% of baseball players, I’m really excited about my chances right now.
Santo waited so long because he wasn’t good enough. Up until this point, the committee saw past sentiment of a nice man who was sick and just happened to play slightly above average baseball. Unfortunately, they caved. And the Hall is more of a sham now because of it.
Especially when unquestionably superior players like Tim Raines are struggling to get half of the votes they need.
Raines ranks behind Santo by both BBRef’s WAR and Fangraphs’ WAR.
So I’d say it’s more than questionable he was better.
Yeah. Plus, he didn’t play for the Yankees.
So Brooks Robinson’s career “numbers” are way more deserving than Santo’s? The guy is a top 6 3rd baseman of all time. ALL TIME. Defensively he was outstanding, offensively top 2 while he played. Yes I will rate him against his era because you cannot place a player in another one. He dominated his era, period. It’s great that you can look back on his career now and compare against the blown up offensive numbers of the 90-2000’s. He dominated an era which is known for pitching.
Still better than Jim Rice. Thus, the bar wasn’t lowered this time.
Michael Jack Schmidt would disagree on the fielding.
Mike Schmidt is probably one of the top ten position players of all time. There’s plenty of room to be not as good as him and still a legit hall of famer.
Congrats Ronnie Woo-Hoo!
For those who say he didn’t deserve are out of there mind. Look at the era he played in. 9 all-star game, 3 all time in homeruns among 3rd baseman, multiple gold gloves. Biggest shame is that he said many times that if he didn’t make it before his passing, then he didn’t want in. Great honor, but the veterns committee did him a disservice by not letting him in prior to now. Way to go THIS OLD CUB.
So now the cubs have 4 Hall of Fame players from that era, yet they won absolutely nothing. When I think of Hall of Fame players, I think of winners, not losers.
Ken Griffey Jr. never won a W/S Title so you’re gonna tell me the Kid isnt a shoe in for the hall either?
Yeah but Griffey’s whole team isn’t in the hall with him.
Finally a worth while response…
I didn’t say they had to win a World Series, but a team with supposedly 4 Hall of Famers never finishing in first place is laughable. Griffey’s team at least won a division, and he didn’t have 3 other Hall of Fame players on his team.
Let’s see Griffey will be a HOF-er, so will A-Rod and Randy Johnson, and Edgar Martinez and Jamie Moyer are borderline. Sounds like Jr’s whole team pretty much were HOF-ers.
I would say that A-Rod and the Big Unit are pretty much shoo-ins for the Hall
Big Unit yes, A-Rod will never be in the HOF because he cheated. over 550 of his 600+ HRs was him on Steroids. So like Bonds he never needed to cheat, he had the talent to get him he tarnished any remote chance of getting in the HOF.
A-Rod has HoF numbers, never said he will get in, just he had the numbers.
My point was his numbers are not legit.
I have a better chance of being in the HOF than A-Roid.
Again It will be a cold day in Hell if A-Roid gets in the HOF. That’s like saying Bonds didn’t cheat.
Again It will be a cold day in Hell if A-Roid gets in the HOF. That’s like saying Bonds didn’t cheat.
You do realize he did have 3 HOFers quality players playing with him? A-Rod, Big Unit, and Edgar Martinez
Griffey played in an era where getting to the playoffs were much easier. Remember, Santo played his entire career under the old Pennant format. If those Cubs teams of the late 60s had been put in a normal division setting like there is now, they would have made it.
So if the 69 Cubs would have won the division that year that makes all the difference?! That’s idiotic reasoning. During their time together in SF Mays, McCovey, Marichal, Cepeda & Gaylord Perry weren’t able to win a WS but because they won a pennant that makes them ALL HOFers? If they didn’t win that pennant who’s not a HOFer in that group? By your logic no more than three can be. So you’re are taking Cepeda and who else?
You try playing a season full of only day games… They probably would have won if the deck wasn’t stacked against them. In ’69 they collapsed at the end because they were just exhausted… Play a night road game then travel, get back at 2am, then suit up to play at noon. Add diabetes for Ron Santo… He would have played alot longer and padded his overall stats i.e. Cal Ripken/Hank Aaron, if it wasn’t for his disease. He was a 9 time all-star, and an excellent defender with HR power. He deserved to be in and it’s shame it happened a little too late.
You can’t win if the team around you sucks. Did Santo sign his teammates? No. And since there wasn’t free agency in Santo’s playing days, all he could have done was hope to get traded to a contender.
Banks is in the HOF largely because of what he did in the 50’s, not because of his performance with Santo, Williams and Jenkins. Moreover, the 60’s Giants had Mays, McCovey, Cepeda, Marichal and Perry, won one pennant, and lost the World Series. Were those guys “losers” too?
Ted Williams, Ty Cobb, Andre Dawson, Billy Williams, Ron Santo, Billy Herman, Early Wynn, hack Wilson, Sam Crawford, Arky vaughn, george Kell, Juan Marichal, Bobby Doer, Robin Roberts, Ralph Kiner, Nellie Fox, Fergie Jenkins, Rod Carew, Nap Lajoie, George Sisler, Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, Don Mattingly, Ryne Sandberg, Robin Yount, Carlton Fisk, Harmon Killebrew, Tony Gwynn, Carl Yastremski, Willie McCovey, and Ernie Banks. All of these players have two things in common. All are Hall of Famers, and according to your misguided logic, all are losers, being that there is not one world series title amongst them.
Sorry, Donnie Mattingly is not in the hall.
Sorry, Donnie Mattingly is not in the hall.
Ted Williams, Ty Cobb, Andre Dawson, Billy Williams, Ron Santo, Billy Herman, Early Wynn, hack Wilson, Sam Crawford, Arky vaughn, george Kell, Juan Marichal, Bobby Doer, Robin Roberts, Ralph Kiner, Nellie Fox, Fergie Jenkins, Rod Carew, Nap Lajoie, George Sisler, Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, Don Mattingly, Ryne Sandberg, Robin Yount, Carlton Fisk, Harmon Killebrew, Tony Gwynn, Carl Yastremski, Willie McCovey, and Ernie Banks. All of these players have two things in common. All are Hall of Famers, and according to your misguided logic, all are losers, being that there is not one world series title amongst them.
The late 30’s/early 40’s Red Sox say hi.
From 1939-1041 there were no less than five Hall of Famers on that team (Williams, Foxx, Doerr, Cronin and Grove).
Only the 12th third-baseman into the HOF. That’s kind of crazy.
Especially when one considers that is he seen as one of the Top 10 players of all-time at his position. I believe Bill James has him as the 6th best all-time.
Add me to the out of the mind club then……..no way he should be in.
Why is it that anyone that plays for the Cubs more than 5 yrs is HOF worthy? .277 hitter, come on.
obviously you are unaware of his career. If you would like, try google, look up a little about the man and the game of his era, then come back and post.
If you’re going to restrict the stats in your case to the ones on the back of baseball cards, you might be trying to punch above your weight with this crowd.
As much as I love Ron Santo, I don’t think he’s a good enough player to be in the HOF.
He has the same numbers as Schmidt and some better as well, he should have been there before you were born.
He has the same numbers as Schmidt and some better as well, he should have been there before you were born.
No Gil Hodges? .273/.359/.487 370 HR’s 1274 RBIs. 9 time all star, 3 gold gloves. I am very happy for Santo, but continue to be dumbfounded by Hodges absence.
Not that I don’t think Hodges isn’t a HOFer, but you’re not exactly presenting the best case. RBIs, BA, gold gloves, all star games.
What more do you want? He was in the World Series 7 times, won it twice. I dont need to post his whole career stats to get my point across. Hodges was a huge reason as to why the Dodgers were so succesfull in the 50’s. The only player in baseball that had more homeruns and RBI’s in the decade was his teammate, Duke Snider. Before a guy named Willie Mays came along, Gil was the all time NL homerun leader. He was a huge fan favorite as well.
Ron Santo:
79.3 career WAR, according to Fangraphs (among eligible Hof, more than McGwire, Palmeiro, Raines…)
66.4 Career WAR, BBRef (0.2 behind Manny Ramirez, 0.1 ahead of Gary Carter, and for grant77: 1.6 above Tim Raines)
5th best wWAR, all-time among third basemen
6th best 3B, all time, according to Bill James
8th highest career HR total among 3B
9 Gold Gloves
Basically, you’ve got a guy who is a top-ten all time offensive 3B and a top 5 all-time defensive 3B. His counting stats may not jump out at you, but he played in a pitching dominated era. Compared to his peers at the time, and compared to 3B from all-time, he is a clear standout.
Santo isn’t even just qualified for the Hall of Fame, he’s so obviously qualified that the Hall should be embarrassed for taking so long.
He wasn’t even just the best eligible 3B not in the Hall of Fame, he was arguably the best eligible but non-enshrined position player PERIOD.
This. Forget “teh narrative.”
Tony Perez got in years ago. They played in roughly the same era (although Santos prime was ina more dominant pitching era). If you take Santos 15 yr run and Perezs best 15 yr run and compare them…Santo was actually better. and SAnto won a bunch of gold gloves while Perez was so good at 3b they moved him to 1b.
But because Tony Perez played til he was sixty and therefore got more counting stats, and because he played in one of the best lineups ever with 3 other true greats of the games all in their primes (morgan rose bench), he gets in right away
for those talking about the Cubs of the late sixties having too many HOFers for a non winning team, Banks was past his prime at that point. Santo and Williams were the only greats in that lineup.
Brooks Robinson gets in decades ago and he was half the player offensively that Santo was. So unless you think A++ defense is greater than A defense enough to overcome 50% less offense, Santo was at least in the same conversation as Brooks. But again, Brooks played for like 25 years
You take Brooks stats at 25 years and they still just barely beat Santo’s stats for his shortened 15 yr career. Stats that were even more so diluted due to diabetes. If you know of the player, his contributions to the sport, his comparisons of players in his era and position, you say no brainer Hall of Famer. But people want to compare against the crazy offensive era of today, the HGH infected HR records, and the watered down pitching staffs.
yes Brooks played 23 season, but his first 3 and last 2 he hardly played so in reality he played 18 full season, and was AllStar and GG for 16 years straight, plus the all time leader in hits for Third Basemen, Also Brooks wasnt a HOFer for his offence, He is in there for Defense, while Santo was a very good defender early in his career his lifetime TZ is only 27 compared to 294 for Brooks. Brooks is the alltime leader in dWAR with 27.8(over 15% higher then next in line) while Santo is only a 1.1. This argument is pointless, as Brooks is probably the greatest all time defensive player at any position
Bottom line is he was a very good player, but not a great one. He played on lousy teams for a lousy franchise. He was good for about 7-8 years, but was never great. He went to all-stat games because the NL third basemen in his era were lousy. I think this stinks because he was not elite, if he gets in what about Boog Powell who has similar numbers and went to 4 World Series.
He led the league in OBP twice while playing outstanding third base defense. This idea that he was never great is divorced from reality.
Yes, because ‘good but not great players’ post 10+ WAR seasons.
Never had an MVP, actually never voted in top 3, and if im not mistakened, never received single first place vote.
So you think recognizing greatness is something better trusted to the BBWAA?
If we’re gonna start debating who deserves to be and who doesn’t, why don’t you take a look at the list of all the old New York players that are in….not talking about the obvious stars, but there are numerous old players that played for the Yankees, Dodgers and Giants who were mediocre at best….and only got in because they were buddies with the writers…..check the stats.
Yeah winning doesnt matter much
Santo’s career was entirely during the greatest pitching era of the 20th century. He is a borderline guy. If you believe the HOF is only the total best players (maybe 100 players max), he is on the outside. But what the HOF is – he clearly belongs in. Much more deserving than a Puckett or Aparicio
You had me until you said Puckett.
You had me until you said Puckett.
This paves the way for Robin Ventura to be enshrined! Their numbers are almost identical! Now every career .270 hitter has a chance to be in the HOF!
That is a dumb statement. Although Robin was a very good player, and one of the most clutch players of the 80-90’s, he is nowhere near the player Ron was. Remember, it is a completely different era. Robin played in a huge offensive era, while Ron was in a pitchers era. I realize you are probably just being snide cause you are a Sox fan, but get over it, give a guy some props, and remember he also played for your team.
I watched Santo play as a kid. I agree that by statistics, he was a borderline HOF’er. But with his off-field contributions to baseball, including being one of the very best broadcasters of the game, ever, I have no problem with his election into the Hall. And, I think it should have come more than a few years ago.
Luis Tiant, also a borderline guy, got screwed once again. His statistics are right on the cusp of HOF’er, but his off-field contributions make him deserving as well.
I had heard a number of years ago around the time that the Cubs retired his number that some of the voting members of the HOF didn’t care for his on the field antics (heel clicking etc.) and thats why Ronnie continually didn’t get enough votes. Take into account his numbers (GREAT, especially for the era) and his off the field contributions (Millions raised for juvenile diabetes awareness) and he should have been elected 10 years ago.
It’s a shame that he didn’t get in 20 yrs ago like he should have. It’s all Mike Schmidts fault, it was all him telling people not to vote for Santo. Santo had equal numbers to him except maybe HR total. Also a shame he didn’t get in while he was alive.
Red Sox have a memorable quote “Bucky F****n’ Dent”. Thousands and Cubs fans and all baseball fans alike have “Michael Jack Sh*t”
This is what I’ve always said…If the Hall of Fame was what it should be, then no Santo isn’t a HOF’er, but because of what it is, the Hall of the Very Good (ie; Jim Rice, Andre Dawson, Roberto Alomar, among many other), yes, Ron Santo is a HOF’er.
This is what I’ve always said…If the Hall of Fame was what it should be, then no Santo isn’t a HOF’er, but because of what it is, the Hall of the Very Good (ie; Jim Rice, Andre Dawson, Roberto Alomar, among many other), yes, Ron Santo is a HOF’er.
I see people wanting Santo to Brooks Robinson. I understand they played around the same time, and Brooks is not in the hall for his offense. Yes he won Gold Gloves early in his career, but his defense numbers for his career are ordinary(Not even in top 1000 for dWAR). To get a true sense why many dont believe he belongs is to compare him to 2 contemporaries Eddie Matthews who played 1952-1968, and Mike Schmidt 1972-1989. This is where the numbers really stand out. 500+ Homeruns for both in an era where pitching ruled, but many of the greatest pre-steroids greatest home run hitters played. Aaron, Mantle, Mays, Frank Robinson, McCovey, Killabrew etc. all were active during the 60s.
I am a die hard Cubs fan and I have to say Ron Santo deserves this it is a shame that they did not add him into the hall sooner
too late Hall of Shame on you…the spirit of baseball lived in Ron Santo. He personified what the game is suppose to be about…not self serving, cheating, it’s about me putting up numbers…no names mentioned. For those who knew Santo on and off the field, we can’t understand what took so long.