Ken Giles is drawing quite a bit of trade interest in the early stages of the offseason, reports Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com. Salisbury asked Phillies GM Matt Klentak if he’d be open to moving Giles, despite the fact that he can be controlled through the 2020 season, to which Klentak somewhat diplomatically replied that while it’s “not a goal” to move Giles, he avoids operating in absolutes and can’t definitively rule anything out. Klentak didn’t sound like a GM that is anxious to trade such a talented, controllable arm, though. “I think it’s a little different when you’re talking about a guy with one year of service time,” he explained. “If you were talking about a pending free agent then, yeah, that might be a slightly different situation. But Ken Giles, if he’s here, can very easily be a part of our future, so I think we have to account for that in our thinking.” Klentak added that it’s important, from a morale standpoint, to “win the games we are in a position to win,” emphasizing that a strong bullpen is key to that thinking. I’ve personally written in the past that I think it makes sense for Philadelphia to shop Giles, as he’ll be getting expensive in arbitration by the time the team is again ready to contend, and a relief pitcher isn’t the safest bet to serve as a building block due to their somewhat volatile nature. That said, Giles is unequivocally excellent and should only be moved for a rather notable return.
A few more notes on the relief market…
- The Red Sox, Tigers and Rangers have all expressed interest in Joakim Soria, reports Jon Morosi of FOX Sports (links to Twitter). All three clubs have some previous ties to the right-hander, Morosi notes, as Soria recently closed games for both Texas and Detroit, while Boston president of baseball ops Dave Dombrowski traded for Soria when he was GM of the Tigers. Soria’s market figures to be robust, as he’s already been linked to the Twins as well as the three teams listed here by Morosi.
- There are conflicting reports on the Diamondbacks’ intentions in the late innings. Arizona “seem[s] intent on acquiring a closer,” Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reports, while Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports says that the team “now seem[s] content” to add arms in front of Brad Ziegler.
- The Tigers are one team with interest in Craig Kimbrel of the Padres, says Heyman, who adds that Detroit seems more inclined to utilize free agency for its relief acquisitions.
- “I think we’re going to try to add at least one left-hander and as many quality relievers as we can,” Braves GM John Coppolella told MLB.com’s Mark Bowman. While the Braves are on the hunt for bullpen upgrades, they’re looking for lower-key arms that could yield big results without a huge price tag. Bowman notes that the Braves won’t be pursuing the likes of Darren O’Day and Tyler Clippard due to their presumed asking prices. The team will look for players who could turn into for the Braves what Ryan Madson turned into for the Royals. The Braves enjoyed success from a similar strategy last year, enjoying positive results from low-cost pickups Jason Grilli and Jim Johnson. Grilli, though, suffered an Achilles injury that cost him half the season, while Johnson was eventually traded to the Dodgers. A few speculative fits that are somewhat cut from that cloth: Jonathan Broxton (whom Bowman also mentions), Bobby Parnell and Sean Marshall.
- At least in terms of free agents, the first major domino may be O’Day, who is reportedly receiving wide and intense interest.
I would actually like Boston to deal with Philly. Ken Giles is a hard-throwing ‘pen option that is cost controlled for awhile. Last I checked, Philly doesn’t have much in the way to solutions in the OF or 2B, so would a deal around JBJ and Rijo get the ball rolling?
I’m not familiar with Rijo outside of the little I just read about him after googling. I know JBJ has restored some of his value, but I still don’t think that’s enough to get the Phillies interested.
JBJ is arbitration eligible a year before Giles too which would go against moving Giles since he would be getting expensive by the time the Phillies are potentially ready to contend again.
I’m not expecting some insane return for Giles if he’s moved, but I’d look for more than a defensive minded CF (granted he plays Gold Glove caliber defense) and a middle of the road prospect.
JBJ for Giles straight up is indeed an interesting deal I can’t find much fault with. Boston has CF options galore and also Benintendi screaming through the system.
It is “interesting” for the moment, but what does it do for the Phillies future? The Phillies have three outfielders in their system…Herrera, Williams and Alfaro. Where does JBJ play when everyone is up and ready? Makes no sense to add a spare part for Giles.
I do think the Phillies should get an outfielder this offseason, but an elite one. I think they should make a major play for Heyward, let Williams become the CF’er of the future, and then decide where to play Herrera, Alfaro and Quinn when they’re all eventually up and playing.
I agree, in terms of talent it makes sense, but it really doesn’t do anything for Phily.
As of now, the plan is still for Alfaro to remain behind the plate.
You, sir, are obviously a Red Sox fan. I’m guessing you wanted Hamels straight up for JBJ last spring. A fair comparison to JBJ would be Gentry of Oakland or Bourjos of St. Louis, but with more club control. The offensive potential is there, but can’t be relied on, as it has only shown itself in short spurts. You are not going to get Giles for that. Consider the Blue Jays only got a prospect for Gose.
It’s ‘obvious’ I’m a Red Sox fan? I will admit I was not aware Alfaro was being moved to the outfield, which is why I thought there was an opening in the outfield. I think you are overvaluing a reliever if you think that deal is off value-wise, but yes,maybe a different outfield prospect that has more control…as for the hamels thing? I was one of the people saying wait it out for this year in free agency, which I was wrong about too
I think he means you’re just overvaluing Jackie Bradley junior. Similar comparisons are gose/hicks, and you’ve seen the return they’ve gotten.
Giles has more value because during his time in the majors, he has produced at a high level, in a premium position. JBJ has not. Donnie is exactly right. You are overvaluing a Red Sox prospect. Hicks is an excellent comparison. Murphy may become a good player, but because of Hicks past performance, the Twins have to take a chance. They are not getting a sure thing.
JBJ, has always been a elite defender, ala Cain and has always hit great in the minors, and finally came around and hit great. And is under contract for a couple more years. Giles has what 45 innings under his belt?.. Rijo is a 19 year top 2nd base prospect. Giles has yet to establish himself as a “upper” tier RP
The last I read, the plan remains for Alfaro to stay behind the plate so you were correct there.
JBJ is unrealistic, how about Brian Johnson?
How about Brian Johnson instead?
That’s not a bad starting point, although I’m not sure the Phillies would have that much interest in either player. While it’s good to have plenty of younger players, Rijo is years way from seeing a ML roster, and the Phillies drafted a second baseman they’re pretty high on in June, who is just as close if not closer than Rijo. Also, where does JBJ fit? I think he’d be an asset because of his terrific defense, but where do the Phillies play Herrera? They also have a couple of outfielders they got from Texas—Williams and Alfaro (0 chance he catches in the bigs).
I don’t think the Red Sox are a good match for Giles in a trade because what the Phillies would want/need for him—power hitting or pitching—the Red Sox can’t give them (because what they have is too good to part with for Giles).
A team would need to start with a top 100 prospect just to get into the conversation for Giles. Klentak isn’t going to move him unless it is for a exceptional return. Think something similar to Cameron Maybin and Matt Wisler.
While it’s good GMing to not tell people he’s actively selling a fairly useless commodity on a rebuilding team, a reliever, Phily simply has to try and move him at some point in the next 0-3 years. Getting a top 50-100 prospect for him would be ideal, but several lesser prospects would be nice too — think the A’s haul for Andrew Bailey.
Unfortunately with Miller, Kimbrel, Melancon and Chapman out there, it doesn’t look like he will get moved despite costing the least amount of money. However closers get paid like crazy in arby so whoever gets him will probably be thinking about that if he’s bought on to close.
If I were Phily and in a true, committed rebuild I’d quietly be trying to move him. He’s very good and a rebuilding team shouldn’t commit to a young closer, flipping him for quality prospects and bringing in a veteran closer who’s trying to rebuild value is the way to go here.
I can see the idea of both keeping Giles and trading him. If the Phillies were a team that was in a perpetual rebuild, lasting years and years, then I’d understand having no reason to keep him around. However, this isn’t a team that is 5-6 years away; they’ll likely be better in ’16 than they were in ’15 (70 wins maybe, without adding much outside talent), and a team that can likely take a bigger leap—80 wins or so—in ’17.
Of course I don’t believe they will sit on their hands on what is perhaps the best free agent class that baseball will see for quite some time. When they have cleared $100M+ in recent seasons off payroll, and with their new Comcast deal kicking in—who just might suggest they spend some of their money to drive up interest and ratings.
Free agency is not the way to build a team, but the Phillies have a decent core of young players in their minor leagues. Supplementing that talent now, and allowing them to come up to a better environment—it’s better for morale to win 75-85 games than it is to lose 95-100–is not a bad idea.
Was with you up until your last point – morale varies from year to year. The Astros were brutal for a long time now their fanbase is the most excited in decades. Winning games in August and September and losing a better draft pick is not smart GMing – it says you care about late season attendance than the future of your team.
But you are right in that Phily could speed along this rebuild by dipping into FA, but that could hinder the prospects they’ve gotten. Like we talk about JBJ for Giles working on paper, but Odubel Herrera had a heck of a year and looks like a solid CF bet long term so why bring in another CF to battle him? He’s 23 and good — let him play.
Also disagree that Phily do looks good next year, as of right this second they are a 100 loss team, but that makes sense in a long term rebuild. Getting back to back #1 picks is the best way to turn a rebuild into a legit contender instead bringing in free agents to get them to.500. I see them starting to get good in the second half of 2017 at the very earliest, and actual contenders by 2019. Patience is required for a Phillies fan, but everything is working out ok so far. Rushing a rebuild doesn’t work.
While I agree that morale varies from year to year, but it can’t be ignored that winning teams have better morale than losing teams. I look at it like this…Scott Rolen vs. Chase Utley. Rolen came up and played in a terrible environment; he was a heck of a player, perhaps a better overall player than Utley, but he became bitter at the organization, the city and everything about Phillies baseball. Utley came up to a team that was decent—not great, not terrible—and didn’t have to suffer through 95+ loss seasons. Utley became a star, a franchise player beloved by the city. Was it all their personalities or did the environment they played in factor in? If they switched eras would Utley be the pariah and Rolen the saint? I don’t know, but if they can avoid being terrible and the cost is only money, why not? It’s not like if they spend a gazillion dollars in free agency or none at all they’re going to lower ticket prices.
As for 2016…why are the Phillies a 100+ loss team? Before they do anything in free agency or trades, they’re as bad or worse than the team that came to SP in February? The only notable absences are Hamels and Papelbon, but I see a slightly better offense, especially since Franco and Herrera solidified themselves as key pieces, I see Nola, Eickoff and Morgan as better options than anything that followed Hamels last year, and bullpens are never consistent year to year. In 2016 the team could promote Crawford, Williams, Quinn and others. I’m not saying they are a team on the verge of contention, but I’m suggesting an improvement of 7-8 wins, which put them around 70.
Your idea that the best way to rebuild is back to back number one picks? I totally disagree, because the baseball draft is much more a crapshoot than any other sport. The best way to rebuild is to draft the right players, regardless of draft position. Name the top ten players in baseball right now. How many of there were number one overall picks? Harper, sure. Anyone else? Trout went 17. Kershaw 7th. And this year and next there is not clear-cut number one choice. Look at the teams that are always successful…Cardinals, Yankees, Red Sox, Giants, Dodgers, etc. They’re successful because they draft and develop well, and spend money on major league players. The Royals, while world champs and a great team, know that their ride is short-lived. They might make it back and win again in 2016, but in 4-5 years they’ll burn out and start again rebuilding…another process that might take them 25 years. Just like the Pirates. Which team are you more comfortable with saying will be a World Series contender in 5 years…the Pirates or the Yankees?
All I’m saying is there are different ways to build a team for long-term success, and having the number one overall pick isn’t that huge of a deal in the long-term scheme of things.
I am sure the Tigers are interested in Kimbrel, but aside from Dixon Machado, what do they have that SD needs? Do you offer Iglesias and keep Machado?
Phils would be nuts to deal Giles
depends on what they get. Every player has a price and a worth. The Angels would be crazy to trade Trout, but if the Dodgers offered them Kershaw, Seager and Urias, they’d be foolish not to listen.
SD Can use an out fielder, Tyler Collins is an option, I over here dislike the greasey son of a gun, so trading him and moving Moya to left is an option
Tyler Collins is not going to get Kimbrel, even with Dixon thrown into the deal. I just don’t see Detroit having enough to offer.
I like the sounds of Kimbrel coming to the Tigers as that would solve our huge gap in the bullpen! Than just snag o’day and the bullpen will be set!
I would like to see the Sox make a deal with the Padres for Ross and Kimbrel. I think a deal including Owens, Devers, and another prospect gets it done. What do you guys think?