The Marlins seem unlikely to trade Jose Fernandez, or make other major moves, before the end of the Winter Meetings, Clark Spencer of the Miami Herald writes. “I think that’s a possibility, and we’re not upset,” says Marlins executive Michael Hill over the possibility that they’ll leave Nashville mostly empty-handed. “I don’t think we’d be disappointed, because it’s not over.” Hill adds that the Marlins are looking for starting pitching, but could also pursue bullpen upgrades if they deem the cost of acquiring pitching too high. Here are a couple more notes on Fernandez and the trade rumors swirling around him.
- After making a very costly trade for Shelby Miller, Diamondbacks GM Dave Stewart should follow his plan to its logical conclusion and find a way to trade for Fernandez also, Yahoo! Sports’ Jeff Passan writes. The Miller trade and the Zack Greinke signing indicate that the Diamondbacks believe they can be competitive for the next three seasons, after which Miller and Patrick Corbin can depart. Arizona has an option on Paul Goldschmidt for 2019, and then he can leave, too. Stewart’s trade of Aaron Blair and 2015 No. 1 overall pick Dansby Swanson show that he lives in the moment, which makes Fernandez a perfect fit. The Diamondbacks could include Corbin, Braden Shipley, Archie Bradley and others in a five-for-one or six-for-one type of deal to make a trade happen, Passan suggests. (That might not be too farfetched, as the Marlins and Diamondbacks reportedly discussed a deal centered on Corbin and Swanson before the Snakes dealt Swanson to Atlanta.) That would give the Diamondbacks a top three of Greinke, Fernandez and Miller, making them terrifying — at least in the short term.
- The Giants are still looking for another starting pitcher. That pitcher could come via trade, and John Shea of the San Francisco Chronicle tweets that the Giants would be “all in” on Fernandez (who they’ve recently discussed with the Marlins). The price for Fernandez appears, obviously, be extremely high, and the Giants don’t have an exceptionally strong farm system, so making a trade work would probably tricky even if the Marlins were clearly willing to make one.
No. Follow the Pirates, Cubs and Cardinals module.
Sometimes Christmas lights look just fine, without the tacky plastic Santa and reindeer in the yard too.
Don’t follow the Padres module. Zona has some respect now, don’t turn that into a circus just because you think you’re on a roll.
The D-backs getting Fernandez has absolutely nothing to do with how those other teams operate. SD traded away basically nothing to bring in many all-stars. AZ made a horrifyingly dumb trade to get a mid-rotation SP and signed an ace. You are seriously comparing Fernandez to Matt Kemp? No. Just, no.
Miller is better that most give him credit for. He changed his pitch selection over the last couple of years. With the great DBack defense behind him, he will do fine in the desert. Blair will be lucky to be a #4,Incarte, a platoon fielder, and Swanson was not blocked at SS. Swanson was also a couple of years away. DBacks do not need Fernandez. Padres will be once again fighting the Rockies for last place. But, your team should go ahead and make those “smart” trades.
I object to you implying I’m a Padres fan. I follow many teams closely because of my job, but pledge allegiance to none. I’m a fan of the entire game, not any specific team, I’m literally the opposite of a homer.
Miller is good, but not Swanson good. Miller for Inciarte and Blair is a win for the Braves, the #1 pick and #10 overall prospect in the game is a move that Stewart should be fired for.
Also, why would you vastly underrate Blair like that? You are literally the only one on the internet saying this, and I bet you didn’t think this before he was traded.
I’m with just another fan. Miller is seriously under-rated. Pitchers develop.
Dbacks fan here. Just want to point out that last year, when Miller supposedly “developed” into a pitcher that will “do good in the desert,” he pitched in the first half to a 2.38 ERA tempered by a 3.78 xFIP and in the second half to a 3.83 ERA tempered by a 4.44 xFIP. SIERA of 4.16 and a history of posting above league average fly ball %. You really think that guy will do good in arguably the second best hitters park in the bigs? I think he’s a 3/4 starter at best for the Dbacks, and I agree with Passan that we should keep going on the acquisitions. Trade for one more bug pre-arb arm AND stretch the budget to sign a guy like Leake or Kazmir. After depleting the farm, the next 3-4 years could totally be the Dbacks only contention window in the next decade +. Got to go all in here.
They seem to be going all in so why not go all in.
Look at a couple of teams like the White Sox.
Not doing anything and maintaining a status quo while Sale slowly wears out his arm.
Can’t justify the trade the Diamondbacks made
but at least they’re committed to contending will Goldschmidt is around.
The winning atmosphere might help retain him as well.
Why are teams even talking to the Marlins any more?
They clearly seem to want to contend now and aren’t sellers.
Plus they don’t seem like people who can be reasoned with.
They seem like people who can’t be reasoned with?
The Marlins know that Jose Fernandez is a top pitcher in the league, and to let him go, they better be getting a lot of value in return.
If you had an Astin Martin you were looking to trade, and someone came to you with 4 Oldsmobile Aleros, you’d turn them away as well.
If not the D’Backs, I really hope someone pulls off a ridiculous epic deal for Fernandez.
I agree, if only the Dodgers would put Seager on the table, the deal would be done and us baseball fans would get to see what a Kershaw-Fernandez-Ryu-Iwakuma-Wood rotation would look like. I’m not even sure Seager’s bat would be needed with that rotation, Rollins could probably hold down an everyday job at 1 fWAR and the Dodgers would win 100+.
No way. The Dodgers would destroy their future! They may get three great years out of Fernandez, but they would give up Seager and much more. I kind of want them to do that if that is the case (being a Giants fan) but do not want to see Fernandez in Dodgers blue. And Rollins wouldn’t get 1 win above replacement.
Or they could get another arm to slot into the 4th spot. I still wouldn’t be surprised if the Diamondbacks sign leake at some point. It seems like he really wants to play here and i bet he would accept a 5/60 deal in January. Believe it or not, the dbacks budget still has some wiggle room, even after the Greinke signing. The acquisition would also help the bullpen, but allowing them to slide some of those younger starters to the bullpen.
Why would the D’Backs trade Corbin for Fernandez instead of adding another prospect because if they kept Corbin then their rotation would be: Greinke-Fernandez-Miller-Corbin-?
Because they can’t get Fernandez without giving up Corbin most likely
If the Marlins asked the Dodgers for Seager, Urias, and Pederson for Fernandez why do the Giants even bother pretending like they could get him? The amount of holes that would create if they could theoretically pull it off wouldn’t be worth it.
Agreed. Because a deal COULD be reached, it doesn’t mean that it SHOULD. Yes, the Giants could likely put together a package of players to land Fernandez, but they’d be dealing from the 25 man roster to do so. Bobby Evans was on the radio yesterday and said that there are no arms in the system that he could count on to step in this year like Heston did in 2015. Hard to imagine the state of the farm system knowing that even those “down the pipe” arms would have to be included in a trade. As good as Fernandez is, a deal like that would be crippling long term.
It seems that they’d be better off signing a player like Kazmir to a shorter term, higher AAV deal to bridge the gap until Blackburn, Beede, etc. are ready. Another 5/$85M deal for Chen or Leake makes little sense.
Even a 5-year deal to Chen or Leake (preferably Chen over Leake), would open up a spot for at least one pitcher in the next few seasons.
Jake Peavy is a free agent after next season, so there’s one spot. Cain is a FA after 2018, there’s another.
Not to mention, the Giants can use some of those arms to try and trade for a position player, instead of blocking them.
The Giants don’t have the pieces to take Jose from us…
Hopefully, we’ll be in on Kazmir after missing out on a bunch of targets on shorter term deals. Still upset about non-tendering Alvarez for no reason. That being said, if we can add 2 SPs, and at least someone that can get lefties out in the bullpen, that would be a productive offseason, and there is no reason for them to claim they don’t have the resources or that the price was too high, as we have plenty of flexibility with so little money committed, and there are many deals that can be made on shorter terms
Sorry dude.
Marlins and your weirdo ownership aren’t going anywhere.
You guys were 19 games behind the Mets / 12 games behind the Nationals last year.
Mets improved a bit adding two pieces up the middle.
Nationals are in the process of rebuilding their pen?
What have you guys been doing besides sit around and get nothing done lol.
Sorry dude, but if the Marlins have Fernandez, Yelich, Ozuna, and Stanton for 140+ games then they improve better than anyone in the NL East. Much like the Rangers in 2015, keeping their best players healthy will be their biggest acqusisition.
Not saying the Marlins are going to win the division, but the other two teams you named haven’t done much at all. Mets added Walker and depth to the infield, but they also lost lost Murphy. You can’t just add Walker’s stats without subtracting Murphy’s. You also can’t just add 600 AB’s for Cabrera because he’s going to be taking playing time from 3 other infielders.
Nationals added to the bullpen and are going to be losing from that very bullpen once they trade Papelbon and/or Storen. Lost Denard Span even though he didn’t contribute in ’15. Oh, and they also lost Jordan Z which moves everyone in the rotation up a spot. So no, the nationals have not improved
How many complete seasons has Fernandez had since becoming a major leaguer.
Don’t sleep on the White Sox as a potential bidder in the Jose Fernandez sweepstakes. Their organizational depth includes high end young pitching which the Marlins reportedly seek in exchange. Three of the four top prospects in their minor league system are pitchers, Carson Fulmer, Frankie Montas and Spencer Adams. Fulmer is ranked #42 and Montas #54 in MLB.com’s top 100 prospects.
The White Sox have been looking for a quality top of the rotation right-handed starting pitcher since their World Series victory in 2005 to balance out predominately left-handed rotations. Fernandez, with 3 years remaining of arbitration eligible control would fit into the White Sox model of having a young core in place that coincides with the team-friendly contracts already given to Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, Jose Abreu and Adam Eaton, all of which run through 2018 and beyond. Fernandez won’t be eligible for free agency until 2019.
A potential rotation that features Chris Sale, Jose Fernandez, Jose Quintana and Carlos Rodon would be quite imposing, even more so if they could manage to keep Fulmer out of any trade conversations.
The Marlins have been asking for guys like Corey Seager AND Julio Urias, who are both top 10 prospects… and supposedly more.
I promise, whoever acquires Fernandez will be parting with their best possible young players. For a team like the White Sox, it would be detrimental to their organization to move the pieces the Marlins would ask for.
(And keeping Fulmer wouldn’t even be an option, he’d be gone)
The Giants are perhaps the best suited to match the Marlins demands for Fernandez. The ask isn’t for “prospects”, it’s for ML-ready controllable talent. Matt Duffy is a 5.0 WAR middle infielder with 5 years of team control. That’s the same amount of projected WAR that Fernandez provides. So a package that started with Duffy and added power-hitting catcher Andrew Susac, starter Chris Heston and perhaps the 18 year old $6M int’l signee SS Lucius Fox would be more than enough, probably too much. So it could be done, easily.
I bet you’re a joy to deal with in fantasy baseball trades. That package lacks any star power whatsoever. Compare that to Seager, Urias, and Pederson.
-The runner up in the Rookie of the Year award.
-A backup catcher who would be a starter on a handful of teams.
-A controllable arm
-One of the better amateur free agents from last summer (who would be equivalent to a 1st round draft pick)
That’s not star power?
And don’t tell anyone to compare it to the Dodgers’ prospects until the Dodgers actually put those prospects on the table. We all know they won’t, so there’s no comparison to be made.
I guess you’re only furthering my point because I’m failing to see which one of those is the star? Is it the “controllable arm” or the backup catcher who would start for a “handful” of teams? Or is it the 2nd place rookie of the year who lacks power at a power position? Or is it the 18 year old SS who is far from MLB ready? The fact that you go on to say that Panik and another big part would have to be included also furthers my point. So thank you.
I can tell whoever I want to compare it to the Dodgers prospects. Don’t tell me not to because THAT is what the Marlins have said they want. This package sucks compared to that.
So because Matt Duffy doesn’t hit 30 home runs, he’s not a headliner to a deal? He offers a lot of other extremely valuable skills to the table, if he didn’t, he wouldn’t have been nominated for rookie of the year, nor would any advanced metric favor him in any way.
And for what it’s worth regarding Duffy, he has reportedly been asked for in a handful of deals… so it’s not as if teams don’t view him as valuable.
As for adding Panik, yes, it needs more… the Marlins are going to demand the world for Fernandez, and rightly so. But saying “it’s not enough for Jose Fernandez” doesn’t mean I’m saying, “those guys have no star-power”… it just means it’s not enough for Jose Fernandez and they’d want more top quality players.
Again, I don’t personally believe the above deal is anywhere near enough for Jose Fernandez.
But to say that a package Matt Duffy, Chris Heston, and Andrew Susac “lacks any star power whatsoever” is silly and completely misinformed, at best. (At worst, it’s ignorant.) That trade, if the Giants would put it on the table (they won’t), could bring in a lot of really good players.
Okay bud, clearly this is the endowment effect at play.
The reason you don’t personally believe that it’s nowhere near enough is because it lacks star power.
I’m not saying Duffy isn’t valuable, but sense when has “valuable” equated to “star”? Most players in MLB are valuable. If they aren’t valuable, then they won’t be in MLB very long. Teams checked in on Aroldis Chapman. Is he valuable? Yes. Is he a star? Yes. Teams check in on Brett Lawrie. Is he valuable? Yes. Is he a star? No.
Since you value Giants so much, maybe this will help you out: would you take a very cheap, younger, better Madison Bumgarner or would you take those 4 players?
Since*
Actually you pretty much already answered that, so I won’t make you again.
But by your own description, does Julio Urias have star power? No… he hasn’t even thrown a pitch at the big league level. Is Corey Seager a star? Not yet. What about Joc Pederson? Not really.
All three are insanely hyped, but none are “stars” aside from being, again, hyped. I base a trade on who is more valuable, over “who is the biggest star”. That’s just me.
I don’t think the above trade is enough because it doesn’t equate the VALUE I think the Marlins would (and should) want in order to move Fernandez. Star power doesn’t supersede value.
Not once have I described star power, so I’m not sure how you created that argument. I DID however, “describe” (not really, you said it) or more like “compare” a valuable player and a star player, both of whom were in trade talks.
Star power doesn’t supersede value. And right now Fernandez is one of the, if not THE, most valuable players in baseball. He’s a top 10 SP. More like top 5, but I’m not going to exaggerate like so many people do. Look at the $ all the SP’s just got. He’s better than them and ssssssoooooooo much cheaper. That equals INCREDIBLE VALUE. Therefore the Marlins want STAR POWER in return so they can have more VALUE in the future.
Jose Fernandez had star power as a minor leaguer. That gave him value. Now that he is doing the same thing in the majors, he’s even more valuable. When trading a [VERY] VALUABLE STAR, you want future VALUABLE STARS. If you’re in win-now mode, you would want multiple above average ML ready players. Depending on which mode you’re in, it’s all about consolodating or distributing that talent to make your ball club better. It’s really not a hard concept
If you and Duffy are that good of friends though tell him I say congrats on runner up. Tell him he’s an above average bat (no better than that though) that would be more VALUABLE and better suited at 2B.
And if everyone based trades on “who is more valuable” then trades would NEVER happen because one team is losing value if the other team is gaining value. Why would somebody want to lose value? Yes, that plays a role, but trades are about what a team NEEDS. It’s not solely about value OR star power. Needs, friend.
I guess you’re right, you never described star power… which is somewhat convenient, because you can avoid adding it any player you don’t wish has it. That you haven;t described star power beyond just citing names (which doesn’t give any help, considering we have a body of work from the players I cited, and minimal bodies of work from those you cited—Seager, Urias). What is star power, besides hype?
You mentioned that Fernandez is one of the top in his position, so was Matt Duffy last year… FanGraphs has him as the fifth best 3B last year. (But maybe you’re right, he’s TOTALLY not suited for 3B… silly stats).
So, since you have not once described star power, value most certainly supersedes it, because logic requires it to. That, and value is measurable, star power is not… unless you have some sort of objective, non-arbitrary way to measure “star value”
And again, you keep referring Matt Duffy as though he’s not an above average 3B. He was 5th among 3B in fWAR, 8th in wRC+, top 5-8 in all sorts of other advanced metrics… and that was his first full season in the big leagues, missing a handful of games while the Giants trotted a different 3B out there to start the year (and while Duffy was learning the position).
So, I’ll leave it here: until you can give me an OBJECTIVE way to measure “star power”, quit citing it. And when you do find it, I’m going to guess you’ll have a really hard time finding a way to exclude a top 5 3B from having it.
Actually this entire debate has been vague with you describing players as a “controllable arm” (please measure that objectively) and a backup catcher that would start for a “handful of teams” (very vague, please measure that objectively), and claiming that the SS is “one of the better amateur free agents…equivalent to a 1st round pick” (SO MUCH objectivety in that description)
Get real dude. Gonna start calling me out on being vague after you backed yourself into a corner because that’s the only way to “win” this very vague debate.
However, since we’re going to include objective stats (which I already did, get to that shortly) I’m not sure how you came up with 8th in wRC+. When you reduce the AB’s to 280, he comes in 13th. That’s right after the MARLIN’S 3B Derek Deitrich. I’ll even be nice and say he was 10th to make the math a little easier…
At any one time during the season, there are 30 starting 3B. If Duffy is 10th, that puts him just bbaarreellyy in the top 33.33%
At any one time during the season, there are 150 starting pitchers (there are actually more but we’ll just say 150) I’ll help you out and say that Fernandez is only the 10th best. That puts him in the top 6.67% of pitchers.
There is a huge difference from being a top 10 starting pitcher than being a top 10 3B because there are so many more SP’s than 3B.
But let’s just make this easy and put an end to this because I’m tired of seeing you struggle. So I’ll stop ranking him in terms of percentage (that was so we could compare him and an SP) and just rely on his very own metrics. Duffy’s wRC+ was 116. Above Average = 115. His wRC was 78. Above Average = 75. I believe in my last comment I said his bat was “above average…nothing more.” I said “above average” earlier for a reason, and that’s because I’m very familiar with fangraphs (that’s an understatement, but I can’t objectively tell you how familiar I am with it).
So no, you’re right, there’s no objective definition for “STAR.” But looky there, I just showed you that there is an objective definition for ABOVE AVERAGE and I just showed you that Duffy is above average. I don’t think anyone is going to say that “above average” equals “star” so I also just objectively proved to you that he’s not a star, and that’s what you asked me to do in your last paragraph.
The champ wins again. Please stop trying.
Also, wRC+ doesn’t care if he missed “a handful” of games. That’s how there are guys ahead of him who had significantly fewer AB’s. Please only use metrics that you understand when debating, since we’re getting all objective and everything.
I used much more understandable terms… controllable arm is a term used regularly on this site as well as across the game. It means a pitcher who is still under team control (arbitration, pre-arb., etc). A catcher who start on a handful of teams meaning he’d likely be better than the current starting catcher on several teams. An amateur free agent that would be equivalent to a 1st round pick, based on his signing bonus (unless you can find me 2nd round picks, or later, that sign $6M signing bonuses).
If you really need me to explain those, then I don’t know what to tell you. Every one of those statements were 100% understandable on their own, unless you really are new to this or you’re trying to be argumentative.
As far as wRC+, you have to base that among qualified starters. Derek Dietrich fits in that 3B on Fangraphs simply because he played some 3B this season (26 games at 3B, only 24 started)… if we want to get that technical, Buster Posey is accounted for in 1B stats, even though no rational baseball fan would consider him a 1B. It accounts for people’s stats, even if they played that position briefly.
Also, there’s really no need to be condescending. I asked you objectively define a term you insisted on using over and over again.
The term you used to write off the entire basis for the original comment… that it “lacked star power”. I asked you to define what that meant, You could not, and really have not, except to say that an above average player cannot be a star.
So let’s go back to the comparison you asked one to make, by using your own standard… that is, that an above average player can’t possibly be a star
Pederson- 115 wRC+, 76 wRC (almost identical to Duffy)
Seager- through a rather small sample size, had great numbers in 2015. Steamers projections are not too kind for him next year… they aren’t even above average projections.
Urias- no stats to be recorded at the big league level.
Seems to me that package you asked us to compare to is lacking of any “star” power as well… mostly above average players… if we are using that as the measure.
Again, I asked you to be objective in a term that really isn’t used anywhere, at least not in a measurable way. And you proceeded to be condescending, you proceeded to make me waste time explaining things you already knew, and you ever tried to end it by calling yourself the “champ”… and proceeded to do the wonderful thing of telling someone to stop trying.
I don’t waste my time dealing with jerks. So have a great day, “Champ”.
Those terms are no more understandable than “star”. The only one that isn’t completely vague is “controllable arm” but that says absolutely nothing of the talent level or length of time. So yeah, I guess I’m really new to all this since those aren’t “100% understandable on their own” to me. Clearly I have no idea what I’m talking about, even though you “proceeded to waste your time telling me things I already knew.”
There is an all-STAR game in the middle of the season, so I just assumed (just like you) that people would have a general understanding that’s typically what a star is: a person in the mix (generally year-to-year) for the all star game. But there is definitely a flaw in that, especially since fans vote, just like there are flaws in your descriptions.
But since we want objectivity, how about STAR = Great-Excellent. I think most people can agree on that, and by using objective methods we CAN calculate “great” and “excellent”, as I showed. There are scales for that with every metric.
So, objectively, Duffy is not great. If he was, there would be articles on here about Duffy’s very high asking price just as there are for Fernandez. This is how the entire debate started: I said the trade lacked star power. You said there was star power. I proved you wrong. End of debate. That was the argument. If you want to continue arguing about other stuff we can, but THAT debate is over.
You set the condescending tone in your first message when you said “don’t tell people…” I can do what I want especially when that is a piece of information that 100% pertains to the hypothetical trade proposition. You also called me ignorant, which upon further review, I guess you’re the ignorant one since you lost. So no, I’m not sorry for hurting your feelings or wasting your valuable time after you tried to play tough moderator. Looks like you didn’t know what you got in to.
I do find it funny that your reason for ending the conversation is because I was condescending and a jerk, as opposed to me winning and it being over. Weird how those two things happened at the same time. Maybe reread all your comments with their true intentions if you think you’re Mr. Polite. Better luck next time and pick your battles better.
Smooches,
The Champ
And I should not have told you to stop trying. Please do not stop trying, because it will only help your future baseball discussions. It’s not like I was telling you to give up on your childhood dreams. I was telling you to stop trying to salvage your argument because it was done. So I’m sorry, but unless that was your childhood dream; to prove that Duffy is a great-excellent baseball player, I don’t feel too bad.
I’ll respond to something that came in after I posted:
You say:
“Also, wRC+ doesn’t care if he missed “a handful” of games. That’s how there are guys ahead of him who had significantly fewer AB’s. Please only use metrics that you understand when debating, since we’re getting all objective and everything.”
You’ll see I mentioned it along with WAR, and as a general caveat that this was his first year, playing a new position, and not playing the entire season (which would, in fact, effect his WAR). My exact quote:
“He was 5th among 3B in fWAR, 8th in wRC+, top 5-8 in all sorts of other advanced metrics… and that was his first full season in the big leagues, missing a handful of games while the Giants trotted a different 3B out there to start the year (and while Duffy was learning the position).”
I’m well aware of wRC+ not being determined by the amount of games. I cited it, again, to show that Duffy being a top 5-8 3B in a handful of metrics came with the context of him missing some games due to another starter at the position early on. I thought that was clear, I guess not for some of us.
There is a scale for every metric… and if you’d look closely, Matt Duffy’s 4.9 WAR would put him at the very top of the “All Star” level of Fangraph’s scale, and just barely out of “Superstar” category. WAR, being the main metric used in determining player value (for the most part), would suggest that Duffy is certainly an all-star, and almost a superstar, at least based on the definition of star that you laid out, would he not?
if the metric scales are something you set as a good indicator of a player, and I’ll agree that Fangraphs’ scales are very much on key with those, you have accept that Duffy’s WAR, which is his value, falls under the “star” categories… almost “Superstar”. Your own standard for “star power” includes Matt Duffy.
If we are being objective,
As for this quote: “So, objectively, Duffy is not great. If he was, there would be articles on here about Duffy’s very high asking price just as there are for Fernandez.”
I find it a somewhat bizarre comparison. Duffy isn’t being shopped, nor have the Giants stated they were even listening to offers for him. If they were, we might see some articles about a potential asking price.
It’s also bizarre for the reasons I said above: that it forgets and neglects that Duffy IS, in fact, in the All-Star (and almost in the Superstar) range of the WAR scale.
I think more would have to be added… and I bet Panik gets lost in that deal as well, unfortunately…. and likely another big piece.
Honestly, I think the price tag isn’t worth it for any team. Why give up multiple building blocks for one player? It doesn’t make you better in the long run.
It’s the Giants. They’ll talk a big game but they won’t pull the trigger. The infield is pretty set. They need outfield help with a serviceable pitching staff. They aren’t going to go all in. It’s not their style. It’s going to be MadBum, Smardzija, Peavey, Cain and Heston. I’d love to see another good arm in there but I won’t be surprised if it doesn’t happen. Regardless, they won’t break up the fab 4 infield.
I am curious as to where John Shea got the notion they’d be “all in”. He might know something we don’t, but I agree, it’s not their style.
You’r right. With that fresh piece of WAR information that I have never seen, you have changed my mind and Matt Duffy is truly the 5th best 3B in baseball.
Being that a lot of his WAR is coming from defense, this should be a good read for you. Maybe read up on some of the flaws of defensive metrics too.
fangraphs.com/blogs/so-lets-talk-about-alex-gordon…
Note how it says that defense varies from year to year. Gordon wasn’t better than Trout even though his war (lead by his defense) said he was. Just like Duffy isn’t better than Arenado.
I get that. I’m using the standard you have used. You used it when describing Duffy as above average using 2 stats (wRC & wRC+). You said that there are scales to help us do exactly what we are doing. I took the stat that Fangraphs tends to focus on… the stat that it sorts & ranks player by default when you check out stat leaders, that is WAR. And whether he was 5th in the majors among 3B or 9th or even 12th isn’t exactly the point, his WAR fell into the scale of “star”, which is one of the ways you suggested to find if he was “great” or “excellent”.
At this point, I’m not sure what else you want. Unless you want me to conveniently ignore stats that point to Matt Duffy having an excellent season in 2015, which I won’t do.