SUNDAY: The Rays have officially placed Kiermaier on the 15-day disabled list and called up Mahtook, per a team announcement.
SATURDAY, 7:37pm: The Rays will indeed promote Mahtook to take Kiermaier’s place, tweets Topkin.
5:34pm: Rays center fielder Kevin Kiermaier suffered two fractures in the metacarpal bones in his left hand Saturday, reports Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times (Twitter link). Kiermaier will see a specialist Monday regarding the injury, which occurred on a fifth-inning diving attempt in Detroit and caused him to leave the game. It won’t be known how much time Kiermaier will miss until he’s checked out, but it’s fair to expect a several-week absence for the 26-year-old.
The loss of Kiermaier, among the elite defenders in baseball, will be a significant one for the Rays. Since bursting on the scene in 2014, Kiermaier has quietly established himself as one of the league’s top all-around players. In addition to his defensive prowess, the lefty-swinging Kiermaier has acquitted himself well offensively, having hit .260/.306/.435 with 25 home runs in 1,034 plate appearances over the past two-plus seasons. His base-running ability has further buoyed his value during that time, as he has racked up 29 stolen bases. Six of those steals have come this year for Kiermaier, who has provided an above-average offensive line of .236/.307/.447 in 137 trips to the plate.
In Kiermaier’s absence, the Rays are primed to call up Mikie Mahtook, according to Topkin (Twitter link). After putting up excellent numbers in his major league debut last season (.295/.351/.619 with nine homers in 115 PAs), Mahtook has continued thriving at the Triple-A level this year. In 87 PAs, the 26-year-old has batted .316/.402/.474.
Kiermaier is very entertaining; this blows.
A .236 BA and a .307 obp is an above average batting line? Wow. Talent is thin in the big leagues.
The idea that those numbers have anyone declaring him one of the top all around players is a complete joke.
.754 OPS with his elite defense is actually good in center, but yes in case you missed it, since 2007 baseball has changed.
Seems to me sabermetrics uses ridiculous equations to try and quantify how a player that isn’t that good really is a valuable asset. Just because baseball has changed, doesn’t mean it’s been for the better. I see Tampa play plenty of times per year and Kiermaier is a decent player but certainly not a top echelon player. The defensive ” metrics” that state he saved dozens of more runs than any other outfielder are pure bs. No one is that much better defensively than all his peers in major league baseball. Put him in an amateur league, yes. Not in mlb. Defensive metrics are even more laughable than offensive metrics.
Your entitled to an opinion, but I think the amount of emphasis organizations have put into those “bs” metrics proves that they are meaningful to a lot of baseball people. Follow the money. Players’ value is evaluated using more than the old eye test.
So are you implying player’s values should only be judged on their basic stats (batting line, HRs, RBIs for hitters)?
I think he was making more of a jab at defensive metrics, and feels that defense should be judged by watching
Obviously you don’t watch them enough.
Can you explain why the defensive metrics are bs? Or is that just an opinion? What input into them do you disagree with? Or do you disagree with the observation that is used to compile them? I’m curious, really. It seems whenever people go on some kind of rant about “new” statistics, they have no idea even how they are measured.
Which, of course, he probably doesn’t even know, but advanced defensive metrics are calculated using inputs from human observers; basically, the eye test.
You are right but I think there are a lot of players in the big leagues that get way to much credit because of sabermetrics. And with that comes inflated value and over pays for mediocre talent. So in my opinion the old eye test should still play a big part in player evaluation.
An example of how sabermetrics are a sham. Last year, Kiermaier had a 7.3 “WAR”. He hit .263 w/ 133 hits, 10 hr, 25 doubles, 40 RBI and had a .298 OBP. By comparison, my favorite player, Don Mattingly, in 1986, batted .352 w/ 238 hits, 31 hr, 53 doubles, 113 RBI and had an OBP of .394 and had a ” WAR” of just 7.2? And I don’t want to hear about defense because Mattingly was every bit as good at his position as Kiermaier is. So these mathletes would tell me Kiermaier was slightly more valuable last year than Mattingly was in 1986. Yeah, I don’t think so.
Sabermetrics is also the system that told the Brewers to put Colin Walsh on their roster because he walks a lot. The guy can’t buy a hit and now that teams have figured out he is up there to walk, he is striking out just about 50% of the time. He is batting .087, but, oh, oh, he still has a .315 OBP. What a joke.
You understand the offensive environments were quite different in those two years you cite and first base is at the bottom of the defensive spectrum, right? A good defensive center fielder has more defensive value than a good defensive first baseman, and it’s not even close.
And if you think “sabermetrics” are about drawing walks, you may need to actually look up the word you are so obviously misusing.
But the simple answer is that WAR is a context stat. The numbers you cite for Mattingly were worth 7.2 WAR in the high-offense era of 1986. Kiermeier’s numbers, including his elite defense at a much harder position, were worth 7.3 WAR in an historically low offensive era of 2015.
And using RBIs doesn’t strengthen your case, by the way.
The rule 5 draft is the system that told the brewers to put colin Walsh on the roster. They weren’t competing so they liked a guy and wanted 6 yrs of control of him for free.
You are typical of someone who makes sabermetrics laughable. I don’t care what era any player is from,if you’re going to try and tell me Kiermaier is a better/more valuable player than Mattingly was, or that Kiermaier would’ve put up the same type of numbers had he played in that particular year, then you have shown your foolishness and we have nothing more to discuss.
Second, who says that CF is a more difficult position to play than 1st, you? 1st baseman are involved in a majority of plays in any given game. All you have to do is see Mattingly or Teixeira or Keith Hernandez play the position and realize how many runs a great defensive 1st baseman can save his team. But, go ahead, believe whatever fangraphs tells you.
I’ll side with the majority of ex-players doing color commentary that sneer at the nerds that have somehow weaseled their way into mlb. You keep believing that a slightly above average player like Kiermaier is a top of the league player because the ” metrics” say so.
Rule 5 draft or not, Walsh can’t hit and his walks will decrease now that the league realizes he can’t hit and attack. The Brewers can keep hoping he’ll turn into a player, but I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were them.
If you truly believe that first base is where teams put all the best defenders, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Even your old ballplayer commentators would admit easily to that. There’s nobody except you in the history of baseball that would say first base is a harder position to play than center field. First base is where you hide bad defenders. Mattingly was a good defender, but he wouldn’t have excelled anywhere else defensively because he was slow and he didn’t have a great arm.
I can’t help that you can’t understand that stats mean nothing when taken out of context. A great hitter in the ’60s would put up triple-slash lines that wouldn’t even get him rostered in 1986. If you don’t account for the offensive and defensive context of the era then you’re just not ever going to be able to understand even basic statistics.
Winning a baseball game is about scoring runs and preventing runs. A run prevented is as good as a run scored, which is why guys like Kiermeier or Ozzie Smith or DJ Lemahieu have good value despite offensive numbers that might seem ordinary, especially in the hyper-offensive era of the late 80s or the 1920s and 30s.
The nerds that have weaseled their way into the MLB? Really? Every team employs a large analytics department. The last holdout was the Phillies, and we’ve seen where that got them.
And no, Im not saying Kiermeier is a “better” player than Mattingly. I’m saying that, in context, his contributions are extremely valuable. This isn’t 1986 anymore.
A .267 BA and .322 OBP got Brooks Robinson into the Hall of Fame back in the good ol’ days when everyone who watched baseball was so much smarter. And he didn’t even have power, evidenced by his 268 HR, .401 Slg and .723 OPS.
Context, though. Brooks played in the most offense-depressed era in baseball history post-1920. His numbers were well-above arage for the era in which he played, especially for a third baseman.
I don’t have a problem with Robinson being in the HOF, but he was never a well above average hitter. Even compared to his offense depressed era. He had a career 104 OPS+ and was only at 117 OPS+ during his peak. The vast majority of his value came from his glove and that’s fine with me because a run saved is just as good as a run scored.
My comment wasn’t meant to be a knock against Brooks Robinson, but to show that even the “old school” baseball guys valued defense. They put defense first guys like Brooks Robinson, Ozzie Smith and many others into the HOF because of their defense. I don’t get how some fans, who claim to hate the new statistics, don’t understand how an elite defensive CF who also is an above average hitter and baserunner could be considered one of the top players in baseball. There is nothing new or groundbreaking to this idea.
Ok, conveniently leave out his slugging percentage to make your point
So how long is he out?
Yes it is a shame but the changes in baseball and the pundits ushering in all the baseball metrics used to define players has made .260 hitters with limited pop but good defense into “one the the leagues top all around players”.
Must be very similar to the shame of the old school baseball pundits putting Ozzie Smith and his career .262 BA, .337 OBP, .328 Slg, .666 OPS and 28 career HR into the Hall of Fame.
Well Ozzie Smith was an All Star for over 15 years and won the Gold Glove at Shortstop, a more demanding position for 13 years.
Kevin K has barely scratched the surface of comparative stats. When he can brag he has done the same over the next decade, then yes I would vote for his inclusion into the HOF.
Would you like to rethink your comment the therealryan?
So after 15 yrs kiemaier will be one of the top players? When he is past his prime? But you can’t realize what he’s doing right now?
He’s the best defensive outfielder in the game, he’s an above average hitter and an above average baserunner. Ozzie Smith was the best shortstop defensively and a great baserunner, but a bad hitter(10% below league average for his career) he didn’t even have 500 extra base hits in his career which spanned almost 11000 plate appearances.
I don’t need to rethink anything. You are the one who needs to rethink your comment. You are the one who called it a shame that an elite defensive player with a .260 average and limited pop could be considered one of the leagues top all around players. You then implied that the reason was because how baseball was changing and using new metrics. I .gave an example of a player with a .260 average, no pop and elite defense who was not only considered one of the top players in baseball during his era, but of all time and was elected into the Hall of Fame by the old school baseball pundits. The intent of my comment was to show you how foolish it is to believe that a player’s value only comes from his bat. Sorry that went so far over your head.
What does it take to trade for him