10:54pm: The Rangers could view a strike for Lucroy as a way to improve their pitching, given his highly-regarded work behind the plate, per Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News. With Texas finding high asking prices on the pitching market, the report suggests, the club could make a move for a group of Milwaukee pieces that might include Lucroy, a quality reliever, and possibly even a starter.
3:41pm: There’s a mystery team involved on Lucroy, tweets Jon Heyman of Fan Rag, and it isn’t the Red Sox or the Mariners. Those two clubs would certainly have been among the plausible suitors for the veteran.
2:49pm: The Braves have inquired on Lucroy, according to Rosenthal (via Twitter). At present, though, it doesn’t appear as if the sides are likely to strike a deal. Atlanta’s interest is limited, it seems, because it would need to extend the veteran receiver in order to justify trading him.
The teams is “wary of paying twice” — first in the swap, then in a hypothetical extension — though certainly that’s the price of poker when just a fact of life for a club that would competing with teams that have a much higher present need for a top-quality backstop. It’s no sure thing, either, that Lucroy himself would agree to a new contract.
12:29pm: Yesterday, Milwaukee asked teams with interest to make offers of a certain “minimum standard,” Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports (Twitter links). It’s not entirely clear whether the request was for best and final offers, but Rosenthal adds that discussions are still taking place.
Among several teams to put their chips on the table are the Mets, per the report. With the Brewers still evaluating their options, multiple teams remain in the hunt.
11:27am: Jonathan Lucroy is one of the most talked-about names on the trade market right now, and ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick adds some context to the complications in working out a deal, reporting the eight teams to which Lucroy can block a trade (Twitter link). Lucroy can block trades to the Twins, Angels, Athletics, Padres, Mariners, Nationals and, most interestingly, the Indians and Tigers. Both of the two latter teams have been connected to Lucroy in trade rumors this week, though both Crasnick and his colleague Jayson Stark were told this morning that the Tigers are no longer in the picture (links to Twitter).
Cleveland’s presence on Lucroy’s no-trade list certainly doesn’t preclude a deal from happening — Lucroy has candidly stated to the media that he wants to play for a contending team on multiple occasions in the past six months — but it does further complicate matters for the Indians. While Lucroy’s postseason aspirations could make him willing, to some extent, to waive his no-trade rights, he could also wield that clause as leverage in an attempt to coerce the Indians into an extension or, at the very least, restructuring his contract to give him a raise on next year’s wildly affordable $5.25MM salary.
The Indians are said to be discussing Lucroy and left-hander Will Smith with the Brewers, but they face competition even if the Tigers and Astros are out of the market, as has been reported recently. The Rangers, Red Sox and Mets — none of whom are on his no-trade list — have all still been linked to Lucroy, and a premium player of his value figures to draw widespread interest. (Indeed, FanRag’s Jon Heyman last night again mentioned a mystery team in the mix.) The Mets were said to offer a package centered around Travis d’Arnaud, which was quickly dismissed, but FOX’s Ken Rosenthal reported last night that the two side “re-engaged” on trade talks. ESPN New York’s Adam Rubin adds a bit more detail to that story this morning, reporting that the Brewers circled back with the Mets and proposed a counter-offer that “was not out-of-hand rejected.” The Mets, he notes, have no intention of dealing either shortstop prospect Amed Rosario or first base prospect Dominic Smith, though.
I don’t really see this as a problem. I mean even if the Indians were remotely close with getting Lucroy wouldn’t the Brewers have approached Lucroy and his agent awhile ago and ask? What would be the point to do all the work, research and negotiating to approach him after an agreement and then ask? Sounds stupid
Agree. I’m sure this has been discussed with Lucroy for a least a week or so now. I don’t see him blocking a move to the Indians. Plus I bet he would love to catch for that staff!
Yeah a good 75 percent of the teams on his list probably weren’t competitive when he signed that clause. The Indians being one of them. That was probably a reason he added them as one team in the no trade clause.
Last I checked players get to update lists yearly.
Really? That is my bad then
Kind of sort of. It’s common, but it really depends on the language in the contract. Typically, there are dates over the length of the deal where a player can update the list. Sometimes as the deal goes on the number of teams can grow, shrink, etc.
It depends on the terms of the contract. Not all trade clauses are updated yearly. Some are set to the length of the contract.
The issue is not him not waiving the no-trade cause he wouldn’t want to go to Cleveland, it he and his agent using it as a bargaining chip to try to rework his contract in order for him to opt out of it.
Again that would have been something already discussed awhile ago. It would be pretty shady of Lucroy and his agent to say they are okay with an Indians trade and then when an agreement was accepted they change their mind and ask for more money
Of course it would have been discussed, but it still complicates things since its basically adding a third party to the negotiations. Brewers and Indians could be close on a deal as his contract stands, but then if he and his agent insist on a raise or extension maybe Cleveland in turn lowers the offer, driving them further apart. More likely I think it’s just the Brewers trying to work up a bidding war.
But like I said i’m sure the Brewers knew before they got into deep negotiations with the Indians whether or not Lucroy would want an extension. So the whole if they agree to a trade and then Lucroy wants more money thing doesn’t make any sense to me. I’m sure the third party is really not involved at this point because why would the Brewers spend time negotiation with the Indians when they know they won’t offer as much and shouldn’t have to offer as much if he’s just going to be a half season rental.
There is no way he’s a half season rental, it’s a club option for next year so anyone who gets him is going to pick it up. And if he’s looking for an extension then of course the third party is involved. The Brewers would not be the ones negotiating any kind of new contract with the Indians. He and his agent wouldn’t agree to drop the no trade clause until an extension was worked out with Cleveland and they wouldn’t pull the trigger on a trade until it was done for risk that he could back out. If he wants a longer or higher cost extension than Cleveland wants to give him then they could in turn reduce the offer to Milwaukee.
Yes you’re right I don’t know why I put mutual option. But my point still stands that i’m sure the Brewers have gone over this in detail with Lucroy and his agent that he might be traded to the Indians so if you don’t want to go there or if you want a raise before going there speak now before we waste hours and hours and hours scouting and talking trade with them.
he’s gonna be a met
Pedro Gomez just reported that the Mets are a long shot to land him
Mets batting TDA 2nd today. He has hit 8th every game this year. Seems they are seriously trying to showcase him with as many ABs as possible today in front of Cespedes.
He has 39 Ab at spots other than #8. I wouldn’t read too much into his hitting second
I would estimate about 35 of those 39 were in the 7th hole and most of those were in games where lagares hit behind him while Cespedes was hurt. He has struggled to see any decent pitches this year in the 8th hole
Different guys have different motivations for their no trade list. Some want bonuses guaranteed. Some want extra years picked up. Some just don’t want to live in that area of the country. We don’t know Lucroys reasons, but if they’re driven by money, then Lucroy can’t formally “demand” more money until a trade is agreed upon.
Cubs should be in on Lucroy. Ross is done after this season Montero is playing well below average and is a FA after next season and contreras and schwarber are big question marks behind the plate.
Get him Red Sox
From a Brewers’ Fan perspective – I can definitely say that I would prefer they trade with Boston or Cleveland for prospects, unless the Mets get a 3rd team involved. I just don’t think much of the Mets prospects, none seem like a sure thing. The only way the Brewers should deal with Mets is if they include Matz.
Highly unlikely the Mets move a TOR rookie of the year candidate for a 30yr catcher with a year and change left of control. Lucroy is a great catcher, but they have Matz for cheaper and far longer.
MIL should aim high in this pretty crazy trade market, which is why the Mets will be a poor fit for them because Sandy Alderson isn’t likely to overpay.
From one Brewer fan to another, I couldn’t agree more. The Mets, in my opinion, don’t have anyone that stands out. And I can certainly see Luc waiving for the Indians at this point. I’d without a doubt miss him. He’s been nothing short of great for Milwaukee but he deserves to go to a contender and I don’t blame him one bit. I think the only thing holding it up is what the article said about him trying torenegote his contract first. Even with a decent raise he’s still underpriced.
The Red Sox should be planning for 2017. Yes Ortiz will be gone.
They will be loaded with talent moving forward.
They can afford to move Shaw, Holt, JBJ, Vazquez, Lucroy would be a nice addition. They will have to find positions for Benintendi and Moncada.. These two guys should be brought up Aug.1–Benin–CF if JBJ is traded. Moncada at 3 B..
WS trade Sale, Cabrera and Robertson for JBJ, Pomerantz, Barnes, Devers , Kopech, Vazquez or Swihart.
Not a chance Chisox trade sale without netting one of Moncada or Benintendi. Benintendi probably needs a little more time in the minors too.
The Sox are not making the playoffs with this team, they need to get Sale. The Tigers and Rangers will be the wildcard teams with the Astros winning the West right now. Toronto wins the East.
Rangers calling up Gallo may have hurt their chances in headlining him in a potential deal. He’s made some bad plays at 1B in a small sample size and the K’s so far don’t look good. The homer off sonny gray helped somewhat I guess. Not sure an NL team can count on that defense though.
Whenever I see him bat I automatically think of Chris Carter
Chris Carter’s K rate makes no sense to me, he has such a smooth swing without much wasted effort. Gallo on the other hand, his takes giant hacks.
Whoa, so he has the potential to be worse then.
Carter has a smooth swing, but he has problems getting his hands in on the inside fastball and chases the breaking pitch down and away. Teams know that and exploit it. When he hits the ball hard it’s usually a mistake over the plate.
If the mets aren’t going to give Smith or Rosario, how can they reasonably expect to pull Lucroy? I admittedly don’t know much about their farm system but there doesn’t seem to be much talk about anybody other than those two…
I’m sure they know they can’t which is why all the reports are now saying they are on the back end
Probably because Rosario and Smith are the only two prospects in BA’s top 100 list.
And Nimmo is also good.
I’m not sure that TDA, Nimmo, and some other fringe prospects gets a deal done. Mets are probably hopeful that the Brewers will take quantity over quality here. I think Nimmo’s ceiling will probably be as a decent platoon bat.
Anyway, should be interesting to see how this plays out.
I am sure the Mets would give up Smith.
The Mets should trade d’Arnard and Duda for Lecroy and Carter. Duda would be a huge upgrade for the Brewers at 1st, and the Mets could use Carter to platoon with Loney and as a power bat off the bench, late in games.
The only thing delaying this is the Brewers asking too much for him, and I don’t blame them, he’s arguably the best catcher in the league. Someone will pull the trigger minutes before the deadline.
I am waiting for someone to say “how dare you say he is the best catcher in the league when (insert their favorite team’s catcher) is playing the way they are?” Even though you used the word “arguably”. LOL
Its Posey and it isn’t arguable I think you’d have arguable with Perez/Molina that next level down. Posey has a case as one of the best players in all of baseball not just catcher.
I’m not sure Molina is just one step down from Buster Posey. And I certainly don’t think Lucroy is comparable to him.
Yeah. Posey is in a league of his own. But to his defense, He could have meant NL which would mean Perez would not be in that conversation. As for Yadi, he used to be in a tier above Lucroy, and has a better chance of making it to the HOF. But, at this point in Yadi’s career, I think Lucroy has him beat this year as a complete player.
Well clearly the answer is Sandy Leon. Jk
The man is hitting nearly .400 have some respect
Am I the only person hoping that the Rays would try to get him?
Yes. The Rays need more to be a legit threat in 2017. Anything past that and getting Lucroy doesn’t make sense.
no
I’d imagine hell end up in Cleveland. I don’t see the Mets paying the asking price for him. I would assume that the Brewers have already discussed a taste to Cleveland with Lucroy&Co. I think the only thing going on now is Lucroy leveraging his contract and asking for a raise/extension like the article suggests. I think the Brewers are using that as leverage with any other teams interested, hoping they jump in head first. The biggest thing the Brewers have going for them is the fact that they simply don’t NEED to trade Lucroy. Teams can either pay up or go away.
Cubs should try and acquire him. Ross is retiring, montero has been below average and his contract is up after next season and schwarber and contreras are question marks. He would be an upgrade offensively and defensively
The Mets could make it interesting by offering d’Arnaud and a top prospect like Cecchini.
The Mets would almost certainly have to offer Rosario
Or Dominic smith
am I the only one who can’t stand it that everyone calls these things “sweepstakes”? It isn’t a friggin lottery. It is a negotiation. In a world full of stupid cliches, this is one of the most stupid, imo.
Braves, please do not trade for Lucroy.
^seconded
Obviously Lucroy is an amazing fit for the Braves but the Braves are not even close to a good fit for Lucroy whom wishes to compete for a World Series. Just not a trade that needs to happen. Now if Lucroy wishes to be a Brave, then its a win win! But again, I see no progress being made there.
Coppolella obviously has been reading this comment board.
ATL: “So, how about Teheran for Lucroy, Junior Guerra, Orlando Arcia, and Brett Phillips”
MIL: “Not in a million years.”
ATL: “So you’re sayin’ there’s a chance.”
*Texts Rosenthal: “We’ve got an offer in on Lucroy; not finalized”
It’s the Yankees. They are trading McCann to the Rangers in a deal with Pineda.
Mystery team the Dodgers? Dodgers haven’t had a catcher with any offense in years.
Taking it a wild direction. Why not? It’s fun.
Lucroy and Will Smith for Brandon Belt, Arroyo and a pitching prospect.
Not enough. No offense to Belt, but for that they may as well stick with Carter and his potential 35-40 bombs. Another middle infield prospect and a pitcher is not going to pry away Lucroy and a bullpen guy who is in demand.
Wow. That 2:49 update was brutal. Does anybody look at these things before posting?
Heard a guy on WFAN saying he has heard Wilmer Flores, Dominic Smith, TDA & 2 more lottery ticket prospects for Lecroy & Jeffress. Was in the car & turned on late but he was a reporter didn’t catch his name. That is the deal on the table right now he said.
As a Brewer fan if they took this deal I would be very disappointed.
Other reports have also said that the Mets deal is lagging behind other teams. So just cause that may or may not be on the table it doesn’t seem likely.
Yeah, I don’t think Stearns would accept this deal unless the Indians and Red Sox have left the table for good, which is doubtful at this stage.
Deals seem to be on the table and a trade seems likely soon, so why is Lucroy in the lineup tonight? Worst thing that could happen to Milwaukee would be an injury. I realize you want your fans to think you’re still trying to win games, but we all know what’s happening.
mikeyst13 I agree. And 99.9% of the time they are taken out. Which is the sign they have been traded or as close as the ink drying and a fax. It probably not that close yet which is why he playing.
Even if it’s remotely close it seems like an unnecessary risk. Padres sat Upton 2 games before the trade went through.
That’s because Upton took a loooooooong break from actually playing baseball while collecting cash from the first three years of a 75 million deal. When you get the production he’s given this year, you don’t want ANYTHING (even if he went 0 for 8 with 8 k’s, let alone injury) from getting out from any part of the remaining amount on his deal and a prospect to boot. Atlanta had to give up the top closer in baseball to rid themselves of that same contract.
They didn’t get out of the contract though, they are still paying $17 mill of the $22 mill he had left on his deal.
Just sayin what I heard the Mets offer was. Dont care bout it either way my Braves not getting him so I don’t care.
I hate mystery teams they always seem to stir the pot. Wonder who it is?
You need to stop tagging teams that have zero chance of the trade because of contract clauses or whatever – getting sick of this popping up constantly because he has a no trade to my team..
As a mets fan I may be the only one who doesn’t wanna trade for him. He isn’t gonna put us over the top
I have never understood the mentality of if a guy isn’t the over the top piece then it is useless. That is such a defeatist mindset. Mike Trout wouldn’t make the Mets better than the Nats and Cubs by himself. Does that mean it would be a mistake to trade for him? The goal of a trade should be to make a team better not to make it the World Series favorite.
Don’t laugh, but I think the mystery team might be the Rockies. They have been arguably the hottest team in MLB since the break and they are only a game and a half behind the Mets. He would be a huge upgrade at catcher. Ryan McMahon, Tom Murphy, Mike Nikorak, Kyle Freeland should get it done and might even be too much. I’d be okay with it simply because of a Rule 5 roster crunch coming. Then they could sell Nick Hundley to a runner up in the Lucroy sweepstakes for a lower prospect.
That definitely wouldn’t be enough for Lucroy.
I don’t know about definitely, it could be a little light, but not definitely. That is 1 top 100 prospect and 3 others that would easily be in the next 100.
1 top 100 prospect for Lucroy? A half season of a closer gets you a top 25 prospect and then some (Chapman). A middle of the rotation starter gets you a top 15 prospect in all of baseball (Pomeranz). Relievers in the off season were getting 2 top 100 prospects per. (Giles) But one of the best catchers in all of baseball who’s signed for another year after this for peanuts will only get you 1 top 100? And furthermore he’s at the back end of the top 100. So again bad deal if you’re the Brewers. Any conversation I’m sure would have to start with Rodgers or Dahl as the headliner
That would be a very short conversation if I was part of it. The pitcher market, especially relievers, is currently vastly overvalued. Regardless, that is completely immaterial to a trade discussing a trade for a catcher. Who rated Anderson Espinoza as a top 15 guy? The best I ever saw was #19 and Baseball Prospectus rated him #73 and MLB rated him #39, so he is not exactly a consensus guy. Even so, they got JUST him. You are not getting three additional prospects with a top 10 guy like Rodgers. FYI, McMahon was rated #43, #48, and #36 by the three big boys this season. How exactly is that back end?
Keith Law had Espinoza ranked 14th overall in his midseason rankings which was released just a couple of weeks ago. McMahon wasn’t rated in the top 50 of Laws midseason and was ranked in the 90’s from Baseball Americas midseason rankings. So that was the back end I was talking about.
And I understand the market is overvalued especially with relievers but if you don’t think teams are using that for negotiations regarding other positions I think you’re mistaken. If I was a GM like heck I would trade Lucroy for less than what Chapman got in return. I know they are different positions but I would still use it in negotiations.
Yeah Keith Law i an idiot. He hates the Rockies and has never been ashamed to admit so. In his opinion, there has never been a Rockies player in history that could make the 25 man roster of the Red Sox from any year. I treat the opinion of my 3 year old nephew with more reverence than Keith Law.
But I take your point. I do not put any faith in midseason rankings though. I prefer pre-season rankings. Midseason rankings can be too dependent on hot streaks.
BTW, Lucroy just got traded for 1 top 100 prospect…#95 in fact. Just sayin.
Do you honestly think that is an overpay for Lucroy?! I’m not saying that is an insulting trade offer but I think that’s on the low end of what the Brewers are looking for. Freeland has had arm issues and McMahon has struggled in his first season of AA ball. I think a headliner of Rodgers, with Freeland/Lambert and Nikorak is what the Rockies would need to offer if they want to beat out Texas or Cleveland.
Maybe not an overpay, but as much as I would want to give up. I’d pass on him then. More power to whoever wants to give up that much. No way am I giving up Rodgers unless the name coming back is an ace like Sale or maybe Archer. I could see maybe rising the headliner to Tapia.
FYI, McMahon struggled early, but he is just 21 at AA.
I’m not saying McMahon is a bad prospect, but he’s not a headliner in a deal for Lucroy.
Fair enough. The three main prospect raters had him between 35 and 50 overall, so he’s not far from a headliner. Especially in a market that is greatly favoring big league pitchers not batters.
Brendan Rodgers
Texas was apparently scouting Guerra tonight and he impressed again. Wonder if adding him to one side of the deal and another minor piece or two from the Rangers would tilt the balance toward a huge Lucroy/Smith/Guerra deal going down.
Why are you acting like he’s Babe Ruth in his prime?
Steve, your last observation (10:54) is right on and I feel that it could also apply very well for the Red Sox. I feel that even though the RS have four average to good catchers they lack a veteran type like Jason Varitek who managed very well his pitching staff. So with having Lucroy for at least a year in a half will help the the younger catchers learn the business, since this could be Hanigan’s last year in Boston.
You could say that for now they look set at the rotation level and could very well omit the extra starter. More so, they could use some of their AAA top pitching depth such as Brian Johnson, who seems to be back with his good stuff after going through his recent bump in the road, as part of this package deal along with one of the RS young catchers and some other young minor league prospect.
Lucroy will be a Met.
why would the METS give up the farm for someone they can not sign?? They are better off getting a catcher that will do a good job and will cost them next to nothing. They can keep D’Arnaud and the veteran can work with D’Arnaud. Suggestion: I know a few teams farm systems, and Boston can give up either Hannigan or Leion for next to nothing. Hannigan is an outstanding def. catcher and he can work with D’Arnaud. What would the Mets really have to give up for him? or Sandy Leon. Found his hitting stroke, and good defensively. Would cost the Mets either a low rated prospect or nothing substancial
Good alternative option if the market stays crazy.
Lucroy to the Red Sox makes sense for both the Brewers and the Sox. With the Mets minor league system not really great, they can not afford to loose young players, plus they will most likely not be able to resign Lucroy. Someone mentioned earlier, the Sox can package a young catcher like Vasquez, who is one of the best defensive catchers, and his bat should come around still, option of a prospect SP in B.Johnson or Owens, and a OF prospect like B.Brentz who is doing a nice job in OF coming up. He has always been good.
any thoughts? names can change slightly, but with Bostons depth in the minors, they really shouldn’t have to worry about giving up the top 3 prospects
Dave Cameron of Fangraphs was asked what the Red Sox would have to give up to land Lucroy and he said Devers and a couple of lottery tickets. Brewers don’t want minor league depth for a guy like Lucroy. They need significant prospects
I agree with what the Brewers are looking for. The trend seems that SP and RP are getting that price. not really seeing that price for a position player. I wouldn’t give up Devers unless Sale was involved in the deal. Devers is a superstar in the making, if he ever seen him play. The players mentioned earlier are not minor league depth, but good quality arms and prospects.
I respect very much Dave Cameron of Fangraphs, but in this case I think he just threw out a viable trade option to obtain Lucroy just as an example of a posible trade. Red Sox are done for now in trading off any of their top five prospects and that includes Groome. They have many other excellent second tier players that could be top prospects in the majority of other teams farm systems like the Angels, Orioles, Tigers, Royals and Marlins. In addition to the players that Rich5344 mentioned they have plenty of other valuable options such as position players like Mauricio Dubon, Marco Hernandez, Sam Travis, Michael Chavis and Luis Alex. Basabe, etc. The pitching prospects besides Brian Johnson are Pat Light, Travis Lakins, Kyle martin, Chandler Shepherd and Jake Cosart, etc.
What about a blockbuster red sox/brewers trade sending braun lucroy and jeffres to boston in exchamge for benintendi swihart bucholtz and maybe throw in pat light