Earlier this week, former Rockies outfielder Ryan Spilborghs penned a guest piece for MLBTR in which he offered a former player’s take on the September expansion of MLB active rosters from 25 to 40. Spilborghs’ opinion was a nuanced one, but he noted that most coaches and players intensely dislike roster expansion, noting that it slows the pace of games and prevents MLB role players from getting playing time.
Roster expansion rules have come in for criticism with beat writers recently as well, due in part to the long game times and frequent pitching changes that now seem so characteristic of late-season baseball. Matt Gelb of the Philadelphia Inquirer, for example, described a recent Phillies/Mets series as “a perverted type of baseball,” noting that one game took nearly four hours and featured 38 players, including two relievers who had pitched not at all, or close to not at all, in the previous two weeks. Those sorts of figures are, unfortunately, quite common in September, as contenders and non-contenders alike attempt to outmaneuver one another with seemingly limitless situational matchups.
“Let’s put it this way: That’s the thing about September,” said Phillies manager Pete Mackanin, via Gelb. “They have a lefty for every righty I bring in and vice versa. That’s what makes it so difficult. There’s no moves you can make that can’t be countered. So, what are you going to do?”
Gelb notes that September roster expansion could be part of this winter’s round of CBA negotiations. One possible solution would be a rule that allows teams to expand their active rosters in September, as they do now, but to declare a 25-man roster for each game. Such a rule might somewhat limit substitutions and pitching changes, thereby reducing game times, although it would do little to address Spilborghs’ concern about veteran role players losing out on playing time.
MLB commissioner Rob Manfred, for his part, agrees that roster expansion rules should be reformed. “I’m not looking to take away service time or anything like that, but I do think it would make sense to get to a situation where we played out September games closer to the rules that we play with the rest of the year,” he says. “I don’t think 18 pitchers in a game is a good thing.”
Of course, the benefits of expanded rosters are almost as easy to see as the drawbacks. Young players, particularly those on non-contending teams, can get their first tastes of big-league action, while managers and executives are more easily able to watch their young players against top competition. Also, the sheer number of bodies available helps teams get to the end of a lengthy 162-game season, by which point many established players are struggling with nagging injuries.
So what should MLB do about roster expansion? We’ll begin with a simple poll question about whether the rules should change. If you have a suggestion for how the rules should change, share it in the comments.
Instead of expanding on Sep 1, rosters can shrink on May 1.
I understand your point here and in your comments on the Manfred post earlier this week, though I disagree with the idea of larger rosters before May 1.
I believe that giving teams more time to decide on their core 25-player roster means fewer tough decisions during ST and potentially less waiver wire activity and late ST player movement.
Sure, it’s just one instance but I enjoyed following the Astros release of J.D. Martinez on March 22, 2014, his signing two days later, and his surprise breakout with the Tigers.
I’d like to see expanded rosters early on, then come back down to w/e number may 1st/june 1st. I think it’s a good idea.
Wouldn’t this basically just move the portion of the issue related to using lots of players to a different part of the season?
Maybe to an extent, but I don’t think as bad. Teams would be taking a longer look at guys that were borderline in spring training, instead of manipulating matchups trying to make playoffs
I don’t agree with April roster expansion. There are more off days and rainouts in April – managers have a hard time finding playing time for the existing 25 players, so there is no need to add extra players to the team
Treat September rosters like the playoffs. You must set a 25 man roster for each series. Only way to replace mid-series is an injury.
I completely agree
Agree
Seems like the perfect simple solution
This is the first time I’ve seen this thought but I really like it.
This is a good point
Genius idea.
The only issue is players cannot play to get better in the minors. Good idea but that would be a lot of work. Plus there could be a limitation to the amount of players in a game. Say a 40-man roster and you can only have 25 guys play
Or you could limit the times a manager can make a substitution, say up to 5 pitching changes in a 9 inning game. If the game goes to extras the limit goes to 8. You can have 3 pinch hitters, no matter how long the game is. Maybe it could be this way the entire season
I think it should be every game. Like hockey. You have your 40 man active roster and then 25 who “dress.”
Yep there you go. The brainstorm process did that!
I think three pitchers in a game is too much. Starters should be conditioned to throw 7-9 IP instead of 100 pitches. Reduce the dependency on throwing hard but, instead, on pitching to location.
Agreed. The late inning barrage of relief pitchers is the worst part of our beautiful game. It’s not so bad at the park because you get to watch the pitchers warm up at least, so that’s better than watching the same team sponsored commercials 9 times in 2 innings because of all the pitching changes.
I don’t buy the argument that we shouldn’t change the root of baseball. The fact is that 7 pitching changes in a game is a modern undertaking, and has nothing to do with our games history.
But with salaries the way they are, teams are going to protect their pitchers.
And unless the rules are changed, or a lefty hitter learns how to hit a lefty pitcher consistently, the LOOGY will give me a convenient time to run to the restroom during the late innings.
I’d like to see starters go longer but agree that neither teams nor players (or maybe more accurately, their representatives) would allow a tough love return to routine 7, 8, and 9-inning starts.
Unfortunately, the only way to reduce the number of pitching changes is to dis-incentivize teams from developing and carrying one-batter, often one-trick pony relievers many of whom would not have either made it or stuck in the major leagues a generation ago.
So yeah, I’m in favor of rules requiring a reliever to face a minimum of three batters in any inning he enters or begins (with no “batter faced” awarded for an intentional walk), unless he can complete that inning by facing fewer than three batters.
And if a reliever has to leave a game because of an injury (or “injury”), he’d be ineligible to pitch for a length of time. Maybe a shorter DL stint similar to the concussion DL to guard against fake injuries.
It’s not the length of game that bothers me. It’s the length of inaction and number of commercials I’m forced to navigate.
At the very least they need to find a way to make pitching changes akin to the 30-second timeout in basketball. No commercial break, just a quick break in the action, give the announcers a chance to cover potential strategy implications and then right back to the action.
At the moment you have:
>send out the catcher to talk to the pitcher and stall.
>now send in the infielders to talk to the pitcher
>now send the manager to the mound to talk about dinner plans while the bullpen gets in a few more throws
>wait for the umpire to break up the meeting and force a decision
>now cut to a commercial break
I agree, in theory, but have u noticed # of tommy John surgeries in last 5 yrs.
I think that goes along with what we’re arguing though.
Pitchers now have the mindset to come out and throw as hard as they possibly can knowing that as soon as they’re tired they’ll bring in someone else to throw as hard as they can and so on.
There’s no regard to pacing yourself for a long start and that’s what’s causing the injuries IMO.
I’d argue that 150 pitches at 90-95% is less damaging than 105 pitches at 100%.
All of the TJ surgeries are just re-enforcing the fact that the elbow is not meant to withstand the strain of 92mph sliders and 99 mph sinkers. But the bottom line is that velocity gets you drafted and paid, so there’s no incentive to ease off for the pitchers in question.
The issue with that is that if everyone threw as fast as Aroldis Chapman, no one would get hits. Obviously some players would get lucky but everyone today throws 90-96 on an average and relievers throw 97-110(exaggerated a bit).
Your also saying that pitchers who allow 1,000 runs should go out until the 7th because they have thrown 200 pitches at 5%, instead of 100 pitches at 100%.
Not saying that at all.
I’m saying if pitchers were trained and had the mindset to go the distance, they would adapt and do so. Right now the mindset is probably more “I’m going to throw the nastiest 110 pitches I can and see what happens” vs “I’m going to throw 8 innings tonight so how am I going to make that happen.”
Strasburg and Verlander. Each came into the league throwing 100+, and now they’re throwing 94-96 because of the wear on their bodies. They struggled for a bit then adapted. But they’re still throwing as hard as they can, but just don’t have the same velocity consistently. So might they have avoided injury by taking a little off and throwing 94 even when they knew they had 99? They’d still be successful as they clearly are today. But maybe they’d be able to throw 140 pitches at 94 instead of 110 and 98? Just food for thought.
I have a feeling we have set 100 has a pitch limit because we’re humans and we like round numbers. We aren’t preventing injuries. The only difference between today and 60 years ago is the doctors are able to fix you now. Our arbitrary limits aren’t saving anyone’s arm that I can tell.
If anything more pitchers are getting hurt simply because we use more pitchers than ever before.
It’s a combination of inactivity and velocity. They don’t pitch or practice enough. And too busy throwing hard instead of pitching. Leo Mazone happens to agree.
So Dickey or Colon are trying their hardest to throw 90 MPH? Players that take time and paint yet have decent velocity like MadBum, Lester, Curtis, ect. are superstars in the MLB. They try to throw hard but also know the line between chucking a ball and throwing in a good, fast, accurate pitch. 95 is good. 97 is good.
Look at Jared Weaver. He has horrible velocity and he gets roughed up. MadBum throws decently and he is the ace, he’ll win Cy Young at some point because I that. Any more issues tell me.
They should keep the rosters at 25 all year, but after sept 1 require managers to designate 25 active players before each game. Teams can still fudge it a bit by leaving the last couple starting pitchers off, but you won’t have to worry about 15 extra guys like today. Seems reasonable and isn’t so different than the existing way.
I suspect teams would drop all four starters who aren’t on their turns, not just a couple, in part because they wouldn’t have to roster any unavailable arms in the pen,
I don’t think that helps. U just put 9 starters, backup if, of, catcher, and ur starting pitcher. That still leaves room for 12 relievers
I think this is the best way to go in September, pick your 25-man roster from your 40-man roster before every game.
To refine it, make the last three starting pitchers be automatically included on that day’s playing roster. This way each team gets an extra player and it still mostly maintains the integrity of the roster that they play with the first five months of the season.
If you allowed a daily 25-man roster in September, managers would just replace the other four starting pitchers with relievers, not solving the problem.
My solution is a 27-man roster with two designated “rookie” spots available all year. Let each team call up a hitter and a pitcher with no service time to fill the spots for 30 days. This gives you roughly the same number of “slots” to try out prospects without radically changing the game and without taking away a ton of playing time from veterans.
Here’s a thought for Pete Mackanin. Instead of trying to “match a righty for a lefty” and vice versa, teach your righties to hit righties and your lefties to hit lefties. Baseball is becoming limp-wristed with all this crap on platooning and “loogy”.
Teach them to find weaknesses and expound. Not stay in the comfort zones. They get paid out anyone’s mind to be coddled…sheesh!
As a result of this comment, I’m in favor of the 40 man roster to give players rest. But I’m for limiting the number of pitching changes a coach can make to one per inning. Better pick some guys who can get outs!
What if baseball went like football and had a 28-man roster during the season but each series you have to select your 25 active for it? I would mandate that at least 13 batters are active on gameday to limit how many pitchers you could have. That would lead to a pen of 9 at most. Like in the postseason, if there is an injury you can remove a player and replace them but the injured player would have to either sit out the next series or go on the DL. Id still allow the roster expansion in September but have the gameday roster at 25 or perhaps allow up to 28 active.
I may be in the minority, but the length of games and the number of players available during September roster expansion is a non issue to me. Yes, managers have more options and can counter more frequently but it doesn’t totally eliminate moves. A pitcher must always face at least one batter when he comes into a game (unless injured) so just pinch hit the next guy…but it makes it MORE difficult (but definitely doesn’t eliminate making moves) because you have to debate on when to put in your better pinch hitter or a lesser pinch hitter and save your better one for later. Is one manager going to change pitchers now? or is he satisfied with the current match up of hitter/pitcher? The thing that is the biggest effect is that some teams don’t choose to call up too many players for September. That is their choice and they are the ones who chose not to take every advantage available.
Just the way I see it.
The expanded rosters are as much a part of MLB history as the hot dog (well, not quite but you get the idea). Changing a generations-old rule because the games are long is absurd. The games are long, not only because of the frequent pitching changes, but also the bloated lag time between innings to garner revenue for the networks. The “problem” stems back to when managers started using 3 or 4 pitchers to pitch a simple game. When a starter goes the full nine, he’s a “workhorse” and “overtaxed”. Keep in mind, pitchers 30-50 years ago went well over 300 innings per season, pitched 20-30 complete games and medical knowledge was a fragment of what it is today. Stop babying pitchers, shorten the time between innings and you’ve cured 90% of the problem.
Agree
Yes, expanded rosters are a part of baseball history, but my recollection is that 30-50 years ago, teams were much more restrictive in adding players in September. It was primarily a reward for top minor leaguers to get some major league experience. You didn’t see teams adding so many relief pitchers as they do today. To me it’s ludicrous to see the array of relief pitchers used in September. Using 8, 10 or even up to 12 pitchers in a game is a bit much. It’s time to make some changes – perhaps a roster expansion to 30 or 32 in September. And I love the idea of designating 25-27 players as active for a particular game.
Increase 25-man roster to 27 for the whole season, and allow each team to have a three-person taxi-squad all season. Players on the taxi squad can replace other players before each series. Taxi-squad players get paid half the minimum salary plus prorated minimum for each game they are active.
I think they should allow the rosters to be 27 players that they have to announce before the game. Included on the roster must be the previous 4 starting pitchers, that way they can’t fudge it. This gives them a couple of extra players to move in and out.
Any player that has not been designated on the roster can only be used as a pinch runner, that way they still need to be ready to play, but they just can’t hit or field. Plus it would speed up the game a bit.
What about still keeping the expansion to 40, but limiting how many of those additional 15 players you can use in 1 game? What if, the rule was that you could only use 3 or 5 of those additional 15 per game?
Very simple
Option 1- only teams not involved in the pennant race can use a 40 man roster. Their season is already over. But must change when facing a pennant race team.
Option 2- instead of September. Do it in April. Minor League Season starts 3rd week of April and runs through September rather than August. Minor players will be fresh if needed for playoffs.
Option 3- instead of 40 man roster. Go with a 30 or 32 man roster. Limit pitchers in call-ups.
Option 1 cannot work in any way possible. There’s no true definition of who is in a playoff race. The only true definition is if the team is mathematically eliminated even though realistically we know they aren’t going to come back.
Even the worst teams in baseball don’t get mathematically eliminated until early September
*is No Longer in a playoff race
I say a manager get one in-inning change per game. If u start an inning, u finish that inning. Unless there is an injury
nothing should change its baseball commissioners are ruining baseball with these crap changes
I’m afraid I don’t see the problem. The Ryan Spilborghs of the world not getting an extra 20-30 at bats is not a crisis and changing the rules to accommodate them should not be a priority.
Agree
Another Commissioner going to screw up baseball! Selig & now Rob! All-Star game shouldn’t count, no collisions at home plate, sliding rule at 2nd etc…. keep making the game worse idiots!
Blunder #1 Baseball is the only Major sport that two sets of Rules for it’s playing the game. ( One for the American another for the National League )
Blunder #2 In trying to shorten games , it introduces replay that lengthen games on the most simplest plays .
Blunder #3 Because one Player ( Buster Wussy ) that doesn’t know how to Block the Plate Baseballs changes Rules that for Hundred Years Players , Coaches where fine with.
Blunder # 4 Because one Player ( Wilmer Flores ) doesn’t know how to tag while making throw gets taken out by a Hard Slide. they change the rule of taking the Middle infielder out on a Double Play.
Blunder # 5 It would outlaw it’s Greatest Players like Ty Cobb and Pete Rose because they PLAYED the Game the way it is supposed to be Played , in favor of Soccer Moms little Wussy Johnny in the Suburbs’
No wonder the Best athletes are gravitating towards Basketball, Football and Soccer . Soon Baseball will be a sport that will be ranked 4th in Popularity because of the idiotic moves of Baseballs executives. a non-athectic Sport played by Wissy’s. it would be that way already if it wasn’t for the influx of Latin Players .
I love the Game and would hoped it’s played the way it’s been played for decades .without .
Let the Players Play , If it get a little rough house so be it !
hope your kids are subjected the 105 mph come-backer. see how you feel about that!
expand roster to 30 all year without september call-ups!
I think its much more important to repair the ASG so its either home field with 0 or 1 fan voted-in player, or no home field with fans voting as they currently do. I also think getting new stadiums for the Rays and A’s is more important than this, as would be fixing the schedule so it balances, which could be done easily by getting rid of interleague and having each team play each other 6 times at home and 6 times on the road so 6+6=12 X 14 other teams = 168 game season, and yes, I would like more baseball, not less.
But yeah, Sept expansion is whatever. It makes watching bad teams play meaningless games more tolerable because you get to see prospects you’ve been clamoring for all year. It stinks for pitching changes in the NL, but that could be fixed by making all pitchers in September throw to a minimum of 3 hitters unless injury occurs. I don’t think its as big a deal as people are making out. I can understand how the players want shorter games, but I also understand the players signed up for this and get paid too much, so, too bad for them, give the fans more baseball!
You can’t have 15 teams per league without interleague. Your schedule idea makes no sense. Also, there’s no point in having divisions with a balanced schedule.
Just make rosters 27 players all year and no call up in September
This is the solution.Having a 27 player roster simplifies so many things. Eliminate the roster expansion in September.
Speed up games? Fix the ridiculous Tony LaRussa fueled replay. If Rob Manfred had any, he should ask the baseball brain trust to develop a system that does all replays in 20 seconds. If it can’t be decided in 20 seconds the on field play stands. Plus the play where the infielder keeps the glove on the runner? Stop immediately. Manfred said himself that replay would not change the integrity of the game. Well Pal this play has.
I’d expand rosters to 27 players for the whole season though I know owners won’t like that. Current roster size dates back to when teams used four starters, had two or thee guys as spot starters/long relievers and three or four guys as relievers. And, when it was common for starters end of season pitching stats to include about one-third or more of those starts to be CG or Complete Games.
Second, I’d limit September call-ups to 30 or 31 active players.
And finally, require the NL to adopt the DH or allow AL teams to use the DH when playing in NL parks. Of course, NL teams would then insist on using DH as well which would provoke the NL to adopt the DH as well. NL rosters and AL rosters are constructed differently to accommodate the DH but with more interleague play, AL teams are at a disadvantage because their DH is reduced to pinch hitting duty.when playing in NL parks.
Haven’t read all the previous comments yet, but my Mets wouldn’t have made the wild card if it weren’t for expanded rosters in September.
I think now that we’ve removed stimulants and PEDs from baseball, players seem to be tiring earlier and more are getting injured toward the end of the season.
I know the Mets percentage of significant injuries were probably an outlier, but we also had guys playing injured on top of that, and having the 38-40 guys on the active roster protects younger arms to a degree and older players as well.
Extra players in September counters the natural fatigue of the late season in the “clean” game.
Before each series, have each manager submit the number (no less than 25, no more than 40) of players he would like to play with to the comissioner’s office. The lower of the two numbers is what you play with. (September only, after the minor league seasons are over).
Also, no mid inning pitching changes should be allowed unless a run scores in that inning. After that, no further pitching changes until another run scores. In addition to shortening the game, and opening roster spots up for position players, it would add an element of strategy to pitching changes. (A lefty and 2 righties are due up, do you go for the first out with a lefty and be at a disadvantage for the next two batters or do you hope for the best with the first batter knowing you have a good chance at getting the next 2?) You could make an injury exception, but the new pitcher must throw with the same hand.
I think there can be a compromise on this. Allow teams to dress 30 players after September 1. This gives a team the chance to have 5 extra players in a game to use. It gives teams a few more roster spots if they want to take a look at certain young players. However, set guidelines to who those 5 extra players are. They can’t be all pitchers. Set the limit at like 2 extra pitchers. That prevents a Mets-Phillies situation from happening.
My best solution that i can think of is cutting the season by 20 or 25 games. (I know it will never be done because of money). It would also help weather wise because you could start the season a week or two into the season then be done the first or second week into September. With this scenario you get rid of the expanded roster all together.