NOV. 30: ESPN’s Mark Saxon tweeted yesterday that he was told recently that the Cardinals aren’t pursuing Turner, and he adds in a followup that he checked in again today and was told the same. While it’s perhaps possible that the Cards are fans of Turner but don’t view him as a priority right now, Saxon’s reports certainly seem to suggest that St. Louis is not actively pursuing Turner at this time.
NOV. 29: The Cardinals have at least some interest in free agent third baseman Justin Turner, according to Jon Morosi of MLB Network (Twitter link). It is not apparent from the report whether the club has spoken to Turner’s representatives.
As things stand, St. Louis appears to have a full slate of infielders, even after deciding to shift Matt Carpenter to first base for the coming season. With Aledmys Diaz at short, Kolten Wong at second, and Jhonny Peralta and Jedd Gyorko also available up the middle and at third, there are plenty of established options on hand.
Given that array of players, Morosi suggests that the Cards would likely need to find a taker for Peralta to facilitate an addition of Turner. The 34-year-old Peralta is coming off of a rough 2016 season, though he’s owed just $10MM entering the final season of his front-loaded free agent contract.
Turner, who just turned 32, would represent a nice upgrade for the Cardinals, though of course that’s also true of many other teams. Since reviving his career with the Dodgers, Turner owns a .296/.364/.492 batting line and has rated as a top-quality defender at the hot corner.
That production also means that Turner is likely to earn a hefty deal on the open market. MLBTR ranked him fourth among this year’s crop of free agents, predicting a five-year, $85MM contract. Because he turned down the Dodgers’ qualifying offer, moreover, Turner will come with the cost of draft compensation.
St. Louis has emphasized its interest in improving defensively, and Turner would certainly help in that regard. Though Peralta has typically rated well as a shortstop, and would seem to have the skillset for third base, he drew very poor metrics there last season.
Of course, the Cards also have a variety of other needs. Most pressing, perhaps, is the open outfield spot. The organization has been said to be hunting for a center fielder, with the idea of moving Randal Grichuk to a corner spot. Whether the team could pursue an upgrade there while also making a move on Turner remains to be seen.
It’s an interesting fit, but if the Cardinals are serious about upgrading their defense and athleticism, JT would certainly help with that. Peralta has slowed down considerably, especially in the last year. While then most obvious fit is in center field, if the Cardinals can find a taker for Peralta, I see this as a good fit. Would also form a really good platoon of Wong and Gyorko at second base and would allow Gyorko back into the role he was in last year where he provided everyone a day off and was a great pinch hitter.
Agree great pick up and will piece to trade for CF
As a fan of St. Louis I hope we spend our resources otherwise. An aging 30’s player who just hit paydirt is too big of a risk for a middle market team. I’d rather take a flyer on Holland and keep Peralta and I don’t even like Peralta.
I completely agree about Turner. But, there’s no need for someone like Holland. We already have around nine pitchers for five spots.
He may have meant Greg Holland, but regardless Turner is one of the more underappreciated free agents and his price tag should be pretty reasonable if they decided to go that route. I never liked the Peralta signing and he’s too inconsistent. Turner is an excellent fielder. If we could snag him and Carlos Gomez on the cheap, I would say it was a winning offseason. Gyorko would be better as insurance at 2nd if Wong fails again and to be a utility power bat rather than for us
no trophy is given for winning the offseason
Well, thanks for the douchely input. Here, let me rephrase just for you: If the Cardinals acquired Justin Turner and Carlos Gomez for reasonable price, I would say that the Cardinals had a positive off-season and will be in better position to compete in 2017.
to try to rely on strictly a Peralta/Gyorko platoon at third base.
That’s MO’s thinking, NAME ONE STAR on this team BESIDES Yadi…. NONE!
Yadi? A STAR! hahaha! He’s an overpaid piece of $hit!
Does Matt Carpenter ring a bell? How about Carlos Martinez? Piscotty maybe? Do you even watch the cardinals?
How do the cardinals dupe fans and MLB into thinking small market? Free draft picks from MLB and 12th highest payroll (Cubs 14th)Sell outs and field and merchandise sales too. They got the $$$ but why spend it if people drink the kool aid
So you’re argument is they don’t spend but they spend more than the Cubs?
But your 12th and 14th are inaccurate. Both were in the top 10 and the Cubs had a higher payroll.
Going off current contracts of signed players . Fowler hammel chapman Edwin jackson off books. Holliday etc off cards. Small market would be Brewers rays 75 million payrolls. They are cheap when they don’t have to be. They choose too. Have good young pitchers coming up. Turner and Fowler would defiantly close gap with Cubs
This seems like a luxury move to me. With Cecil in the fold for the bullpen and Lynn ready to rejoin the rotation, clearly CF is the next big hole to fill. Unless by bringing in Turner and placing Gyorko permanently at 2b, it would free up Wong to start in CF, though I don’t really see that happening. But clearly, the infield defense was atrocious last year, and I like that Mo is looking to shore that up.
Turner would *clearly* be a defensive upgrade at 3b over anyone on the team right now.
The thought would be to trade Peralta after a Turner signing, thus freeing up 3B.
Agreed. I think we can sign Turner and Carlos Gomez without breaking the bank. Both would improve our defense, as well. Not sure exactly when they are planning to trade for Peralta, but maybe we can hold onto him until May and see where our needs are specifically at that point.
Adding Turner wouldn’t be a luxury move. With Carpenter being moved to first, there is a hole at third, and with Diaz’s defense still developing, getting a legit third baseman (rather than platooning a declining shortstop and a bench player) is a definite need, even if it is smaller than adding a centerfielder.
It certainly is a luxury when you have a gaping hole at CF.
Gyroko can fill 3b and we already have Peralta there. So there are adequate needs for 3B already on this team.
I can’t say that about CF.
As I mentioned, Peralta is a defensively declining shortstop and Gyorko is a bench player. Between the two, they have 307 career starts at third base over a total of 18 seasons. Neither one is a third baseman, and neither one is adequate. It’s a stop gap measure because they’re warm bodies and Matt Carpenter’s defensive play at the hot corner slid badly last season.
Just because the hole isn’t as gaping as the one in CF doesn’t mean that it’s a problem the team can ignore, especially if it wants to improve the infield defense with a ground-ball pitching staff. Both need to improve if the Cardinals want to contend.
Seriously! R infield sucks on defense and you want to put a 34 on the hot corner , which he can’t handle at his age. We need players at each position
Putting Wong in CF isn’t an upgrade. That would actually be a downgrade. Wong is a 2nd baseman, not an outfielder. Def. not a CF!
Cards need a number 3 hole hitter..Turner is not a three hole hitter. Cards have nothing but cash. Its time to spent it. Cespedas in left and Simmons through trade changes the whole lineup and defense. Im still finding it hard to believe that Wong is considered a good second baseman. I count 14 unable to make exchange throws from left side to first base last year. doesnt show as an error, but really is. 18 of them the year before. Without a real 3 hole hitter and a real SS, Cards are just spinning their wheels.
Diaz will be the short stop. Don’t think that they are going to move away from that
Simmons is untouchable for now and Diaz has been a much better defender in the second half.
Turner was the three-hole hitter for the Dodgers, I believe.
Turner is not a 3 hole hitter???? Watch a game this century. Smfh
Turner isn’t a 3 hole hitter? He had 27 HRs and drove in 90. Those numbers look like 3 hole numbers to me. And the guy can play defense on top of that? Give the guy the money and find a taker for Wong. Start gyorko at 2nd and let Garcia/peralta be platoon players. Sign Fowler, move carpenter to a more comfortable place in the lineup because he’s already said he doesn’t like leading off and the Cardinals/Cubs gap could become very interesting.
Somewhat small sample here, but Turner has hit well at Busch II over the last 2 years
2016……………..375/.412/.688/1.100……….(16 AB’s)
2015………………444/.500/.556/1.056…………(9 AB’s)
….maybe that’s what Mo is looking at?
They could spend the money on Turner and trade for a decent CF (Ozuna?)…….or trade Adams, Marco Gonzales, Plummer, and Garcia to Colorado for Blackmon? (yes, that’s quantity, not quality……but it should get the conversation started)
Somewhat of a small sample? That’s a meaningless sample size. Mozeliak is interested because Turner has been really good for three straight years.
Um…….stl_cards16 (is that your age….16?…lol…)…..
Have you ever PLAYED organized Baseball? I have……..
Players sometimes “simply hit better in certain Ballparks”…………at every level. That’s why they “keep those stats”………maybe…..just maybe…….Turner likes hitting there???
So you need to have played organized baseball to know that 25 at-bats over two years is a small sample size? Cool story.
The guy using “umm” and “lol” asks me if I’m 16? You can’t make this stuff up.
I’m likely older than you and (as anyone that follows baseball) know that 25 AB’s is a very meaningless sample size. That would have absolutely nothing to do with Mozeliak being interested. Try again.
Stay in school kids, stay in school. (also take a statistics class once you get to college, and you’ll understand a LOT more about baseball if not the whole world).
When I was 16 I think Mike Schmidt hit a hr every at bat at Wrigley
when i was 16, i had the backs of baseball cards memorized
The good old days
Tribe would be an ideal destination for Peralta to transition into a 1B/DH with Santana. 1 year left on contract at $10M is right up Cleveland’s alley.
Well, I hope they get an OF first.
There is just nothing desirable in the OF market. Even the (realistic) trade targets, aren’t much of an upgrade.
Fowler or Blackmom are major upgrades for cards. The problem is their aging core is getting a year older and the Cubs young pups will get better.
there are only 2 players left of the supposed aging core… Deeerrrrr
Peralta, Molina, Waino, are aging. They have youth in Diaz, Piscotty (only two everyday players that are young and good) grichuk stinks, so does Wong. I would take the Cubs starting staff over the cardinals all day.
They’re They’re itttrying to be the Cubs. They’re great and that’s fine.
The Cardinals are re-tooling the minor leagues while still competing at the major league level. It’s not an easy thing to do and the front office has the team in great shape.
Fowler I’m not sold on. I think if he signs for 4 years, the team is going to really regret that one. He had a fluke year with the Cubs. Don’t buy high.
Blackmon I like a little more as a fit, but I’m not interested in paying the price coming off of his career year, either.
We’ll see, but I’d much rather take a Gamble on Carlos Gomez or even bring Holliday back for a year over those options. Wait for Bader to to be ready and keep building for 2018 and beyond
Grichuk stinks? So an up and down season from a second year player means they stink. You are such an expert. The kid did pretty well for being sent down and recalled and sent down and injured and shifted up and down the lineup. His No.1 issue is that they think he’s a CF and he isn’t. And Wong actually IMPROVED in 2016 compared to 2015. Go back to worshiping good ol’ tubby (Schwarber) and thinking he’s the next Babe Ruth. … which he isn’t. He’s just another Matt Adams.
Mozeliak needs to rebuild the team… right now! This team is going novwhere in 2017 as they stand, and the free agent market is not overwhelming either (not that Johnny Noballs Mozeliak would do anything major anyway trade the higher salaried older guys for young players with potential, Look ahead to 2018 -19 , You could get something for Yadi, so ship him out NOW!
Fowler would cost us a draft pick. Mo doesn’t like doing that. So I doubt Fowler will come to St. Louis.
Grichuck’s #1 problem is that he strikes out in 30% of his at bats. Kolten Wong did not really improve. He went from a 96wRC+ in 2015 to an 85 in 2016. His defense rated better, but those take multiple seasons to stabilize. And finally, Matt Adams has had 1 season in his career that was similar to Schwarber’s 2015 line, so I’m not sure where you get that comparison from.
They’re only comparable in the sense that they’re big left handed hitters. Besides that Matt Adams being half the talent schwarber is would be a cardinal fans wet dream
Dexter Fowler is a damn good player. Switch hitting leadoff guy and an above average CFer. Also, one hell of a guy. Can blend into any clubhouse with his personality. And trading for Blackmon won’t be cheap as the Rockies consider themselves a contender for one of the wild card spots (which I don’t agree with).
Peralta to Cleveland would make some sense – perhaps with St. Louis receiving someone back that would not have to occupy a space on the 40 man roster.
Those young pup cubs will get huge heads and eventually huge paychecks. That bullpen along with that aging starting staff will soon have arm issues. The Cardinals would never trade a Reyes for a simple Blackman type of player. The Cardinals with just a couple of key moves are closer to the cubs than one might think. Solid starters with a solid bullpen will be quite the opposite of what the cubs will look like especially without Chapman at the back in.
lol
Braves fan here- With Chris Carter being DFA’d why don’t the Cards take a flyer on him to pair with Adams? Move Carpenter back to 3B and try and flip Peralta? Then you guys wouldn’t have a need for Turner or his pricey contract. You guys could use that money then to go after maybe Desmond or Gomez for CF. Carter easily replaces Holiday’s offensive production and gives you guys a big middle of the order bat. Just a random thought.
Adams is on way out… MM cant have to many moving pieces. MM is that bad..
The pitching staff is a ground ball heavy staff that had terrible infield defense last year.. Moving Carpenter to 1st and upgrading the defense at 3rd should be a priority and would improve the defense greatly.
Your idea isn’t a bad one for an offensive upgrade, but the priority is on defense.
If Turner does sign then Peralta to San Diego makes a ton of sense for both sides. I don’t really think the Padres have a lot of confidence going into the season with Sardinas as the starter at short & they need a stop gap until the crop of young infield prospects are ready.
St.Louis would probably pay a few million of Peralta’s salary for next year as well if the Padres threw in a reliever or Top 25-30 prospect in the organization.
Mike Matheny is a very underrated manager. He’s not the guy to blame for the failures of the Cardinals last season. He has taken the Cardinals to the playoff every year that he has managed and missed by 1 game last year in spite of a very poor defensive team and very poor base running. Not sure how Matheny gets the blame for his players poor play. Glad the Cardinals brass rewarded him with an extension. He should have won Manager if the year in 2015 leading the Cardinals to the best record in baseball inspire of incredible injuries to that team.
thanks for making the intelligent side of Cardinal nation laugh out loud. Have you ever watched a game? Matheny makes horrible mistakes in almost every game. The fool can’t even understand the concept of a double switch. Why would a manager not be accountable for his team being fundamentally terrible at defense and base running? We will never win anything as long as this doofus is our manager. The next time he “outmanages” another manager will be the first time. I suppose you hated Larussa? He was quite often not likable, but ALWAYS had his team prepared to play all nine innings and 162 games.
Glad Cardinal doesn’t run the organization if that’s how most feel. Matheny is a team manager while Tony was a look at me type guy. No the Cardinals did the right thing with the extension. Excellent manager!
Meant Cardinal nation
Playhard9 is exactly right. Matheny is very bottom tier manager in MLB.
I am still surprised that there are so, so many Cardinals fans who do not understand how bad of a manager he is.
Dude you are clueless! You simply do not understand the game of baseball of you think Matheny is a good manager!! And did you even read what you wrote? In one sentence you say Matheny is not responsible for they’re bad play but yet he took them to 4 straight playoffs??? So they’re failures are the players fault but the success is all his doing!?? Lol. Do you even read your own garbage?? So th
Look, the Cardinals have the resources to go get a few upgrades and it won’t hurt. I’d love to see an infield of Carpenter, Wong, Diaz, and Turner. As for the Centerfield upgrade, I wonder would they try to aquire Ben Revere from the Nationals. With the emergence of Trae Turner and Michael Taylor still basically a work in progress, it shouldn’t take much to get Revere
Lol you mean when Arrieta continues declining/leaves, Lester pitches normally instead of a career best season all of a sudden, Lackey continues to fall apart, Zobrist declines again,,,, STL have a far brighter future.
Bet you whatever you want Cubs win more division titles and World Series next 5 years than cards
It’ll be a loooooong time before your teddy bears are even *sniffing* the number of championship trophies the Cardinal organization own.
But nice try, troll.
Pretty sure the first guy started it. JaCF was talking about the future, you are talking about the past.
It’s really convenient to just ignore bryant, rizzo, russell, contreras, almora, schwarber, hendricks, and the other talented young members of the organization.
Lester pitching “normally” is still ace-level performance. I don’t know what you mean by “Lackey continues to fall apart”. At what point this season did he “fall apart”? And when has Zobrist ever drastically declined? He’s been quite consistent in his numbers his entire career. It sound to me like you’re just pulling worst-case scenarios out of your ass.
Mike Matheny is not the problem! Injuries are what has hurt the Cardinals the past two years. Just imagine if half of those players stayed healthy. Ha! The Cardinals aren’t going anywhere. The Cubs were fortunate that the Cardinals had all those injuries. Any other manager wouldn’t have done what Matheny has done with a injury riddled team the last two years. Best record in 2015, to just missing the playoffs this past season.
lol, you are blind. Every team faces injuries every year. “Just wait until next year,” sounding like the Cubs now, except it is “just wait until Matheny is gone.”
Don’t get how this became a Cubs vs Cards thread…I suppose the whole “smug fan” title goes over to the Cub fans now. Someone months ago used the analogy of losing at Jenga a hundred times and then suddenly winning, then trying to brag to your opponent. Stay classy, my friends.
Anyways, MO isn’t gonna sign Turner due to the draft pick attached. Trades for talent or slightly above average ball players are on his radar. The asking price that Turner will command is also too high.
Guys, this isn’t a middle market team. They make money hand-over-fist with Ballpark Village. They may as well be printing it. They’re still one of the most recognizable and followed teams on a national level. Money is never an issue for this team. Facts are facts. I like Turner, but not longer than 3 years. I’d rather them go hard at Fowler and platoon Peralta, Gyorko and Wong. I keep praying that they’ll go big for a Chris Sale deal, maybe even throw in Frazier. I’d make Martinez, Reyes and Piscotty untouchable. The rest of the young guys and farm, all up for grabs to pull off that deal.
The problem that you have is too many other teams would easily beat the Cardinals offer if Martinez or Reyes isn’t included for Sale.
U realize any package for Sale would start with Reyes and Weaver right? idk y some cards fans seem to think sox will just give up Sale without getting a team top prospects. Simply not gonna happen.. Sox dont have to trade Sale.. If market doesnt give them what they want the revisit at deadline and see who wants an Ace for WS run.
I think you are right doesn’t make sense to trade Sale for scraps. I don’t think the White Sox will trade him for 5 or 6 b prospects they are going to want a quality player that steps in right away a top 25 top prospect and probably a high upside young pitcher as well for Sale. If they don’t get that they will probably just hold him until the trade deadline and just see if they can get a bidding war started.
It’s not just Cards fans – it comes form every fan base.
As a Red Sox fan I would love to add Sale in their rotation but it is going to come at such a high price it appears that I would not like the cost but my guess is someone will pay the freight at the trade deadline especially if they think Sale is the difference in a deep playoff run or not.
I’d say sign Turner for 3B and Gyorko at 2B. Trade Wong and Peralta and sign Carlos Gomez for CF.
Stop with the Carpenter at 1ST talk, that is only brought up by the GM so he can leave Wong at 2nd because he paid him good money when he shouldn’t have. Adams will hit (if allowed too and he is much better fielder). Wong needs to go in package with Leake to Dianondbacks for Grenke.
Leake has a no trade clause and even if he didn’t that wouldn’t even be close to get Grenkie
I agree Leake is usless but the Dianondbacks just want to dump Genkie’s contract who knows they may think he all turn around for them as that is where Leake really wanted to go last year and we get to dump Wong. Worth a look..
The team has all ready told Carpenter he’ll be starting at first next so he can prepare for playing there. It’s not just the GM talking (and seriously, when has Mozeliak ever been the kind of GM to talk nonsense? Matheny has, sure, but not Mozeliak.)
You can read the article here: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/cardinals-commit-to-carpenter-at-first-base/article_115e2c6d-6247-5d1f-950a-9587362e77a9.html
Leake has a no trade clause.
Please think before typing in the future.
Normally I would agree. But Leaks really wanted to sign in Arizona but they wanted Greinke and Miller. That is the one place the Cardinals could dump Leaks.
I thought the genius GM only wants a team full of left handed bats. Two years in a row he passed Sean Rodriguez. Last year the birds had a bench with ZERO right handed bats. Sign Turner and trade Peralta.
I like the move for the Cards of it happens. Peralta at 1yr/10M is very tradable. Still need to get an CF personally I like Cain, McCutchen (if the Pirates would trade in the division doubtful), Ozuna, or Billy Hamilton (if they would trade in the division) the most of the names that have been rumored. Carp Piscotty and Turner make a good middle of the order.
It’s not a fit, costs a draft pick (cards don’t do that unless it’s a special fit – i.e they pursued Price) and they don’t have the need.
I don’t see this at all
Price wouldn’t have cost a pick. That’s why he was targeted.
Well that’s what I thought. The OF is their priority right now, and Turner wouldn’t be a fit unless they traded Peralta as pointed out.
Im starting to think MLBTR is just trowing early made up rumors out there because they have nothing to report.
I’ve learned not to get my hopes up to high when it comes time for Mozeliak to shine as a strong GM should. I hope he proves me wrong this year. He’s got to be on a thin rope with the owners!!!