Having already checked in on Ian Kinsler and Brian Dozier, the second-base needy Dodgers are now interested in the Rays’ Logan Forsythe, reports Jon Morosi of MLB Network. Dodgers president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman previously traded for Forsythe when he was the Rays’ general manager in 2014, notes Morosi (Twitter links). It’s unclear whether Tampa Bay is currently open to dealing him, though.
Forsythe, who will turn 30 in January, has quietly established himself as a high-end second baseman dating back to 2015. In 1,182 plate appearances since then, Forsythe has batted .273/.347/.444 with 37 home runs and 15 stolen bases, and his 6.8 fWAR during that span places him ninth among the league’s second basemen. Most of the damage the right-handed Forsythe has done the past two years has come against lefties (.287/.350/.543 in 317 PAs), which surely appeals to a Dodgers team that posted a league-worst .213/.290/.332 line versus southpaws in 2016.
Like Kinsler and Dozier, Forsythe is controllable through the 2018 campaign, though he’s set to rake in less money than those two and shouldn’t cost as much to acquire in a trade. Forsythe – who’s due $14.25MM (including an $8.5MM club option for 2018) – has also seen action at third base, where the Dodgers have an opening as Justin Turner sits without a contract. The lion’s share of Forsythe’s playing time has come at second, though, and the Dodgers could clearly use a solution there with Chase Utley on the open market and Howie Kendrick now in Philadelphia.
Eff off Friedman
Cue the “Urias has to be part of the package” comments.
more like puig and Willie Calhoun.
seriously other then sale these fans of other teams think were gonna give up urias like he is just an average prospect. The dbacks corrupted these delusional fans into thinking the most average player is worth a #1 prospect. this guy really said pug and calhoun for forsythe. Yeah right keep dreaming
I think you’re undervaluing Forsythe or overvaluing Calhoun and Puig..
forsythe was a poor hitter for 4 years in san diego. 2 years in the extreme hitter friendly AL east doesent prove to me he’s worth calhoun and puig. Puigs value is strange but they almost got braun for him so there is something there.
It wasn’t just Puig to MIL though. It included McCarthy to off-set some money AND prospects.
can we stop pretending like ops+ and wrc+ aren’t already adjusted for league and park effects. forsythe and above average everyday player. puig is interesting from a talent standpoint, the rays due to their financial situation would mind off the field stuff less. and Calhoun is basically a dh. only. the rays can’t afford premium bats in the open market though so he would also interest them.
And the Brewers were trying to get rid of Braun because of his contract, not because of Puig’s immense value. Braun carries a great bat, but I’m pretty sure his defense has been pretty average to below average.
Let me remind you the Brewers claimed Puig. The Dodgers didn’t come to Mil to shop him. So obviously they value him. 2nd it’s a good thing that the AL has the DH then because Calhoun straight MASHES. AFL Allstate game MVP and the bat plays. He will find himself in a MLB lineup. And had extreme value moving forward
Yeah, there were rumors that LA might just let him go on waivers, he was so deep in the doghouse. Why not put in a claim. Most things virtually free provide some value.
For at best a league-average player, both offensively and defensively? And only one year of him at that, assuming he isn’t worth his $8.5M option for 2018, which at this point, he is not.
Hes not really league average.. he averaged 4 WAR over the last 2 years. However, I must confess I thought he had more team control. Something like he for Calhoun would be more like it.
Typical LA fan who can’t read. It’s spelled out clearly in the 2nd paragraph there that Forsythe is one of the better 2B out there and anybody who has actually seen him play knows this.
I’m not sure who you’re talking about, but Forsythe is an above average player. Over the past two seasons, he has a 119 wRC+ which is good for 6th among all second basemen. It’s the same as Pedroia and higher than both Kinzler and Dozier who are both at 117 wRC+. He also has been worth 6.8 fWAR and 8.4 rWAR, which are both well above average. His 2/$15mm contract is a bargain and he will cost a top prospect plus more.
Nice work of bracketing only his last two seasons. Now tell me why he’s been so much better in those two seasons than the four prior seasons when he was well below average, and we can have a conversation about something real.
The good news is that baseball is a “what have you done for me lately” business. I presume you’ve heard of selling high?
how about jose Bautista? edwin encarnacion? they weren’t good for years then were 2 of the best hitters in the game 5 years running. players get better. forsythe is solid above average second basemen. Dodgers have a glut in the outfield and Calhoun has no defensive position.
brixton, Calhoun is like a 35 fielder. he is a dh only prospect so no he is not worth 2 cheap years of forsythe.
Wrc+ and war arent the all end stats that decided how the player is. Dodgers need an offensive 2b and war takes in defense. These deep analytics are the garbage that told freidman to give mccarthey 48 million. He isnt even close to dozier or kinslers level
What about them? When a player outperforms his career numbers for a season or two the obvious question is whether he’s changed something in his approach to justify it, grew into his prime, or just had an outlier season or two. We know for example that Justin Turner changed his approach at the plate a few years ago and it’s paid off big, so we have a reason to project his output in the future on that basis rather than his middling performance before that. Is the same true about Forsythe? I don’t know the player well enough to say. So at this point I look at his career numbers and have to be underwhelmed.
The simple answer is that the Padres didn’t utilize him correctly and Tampa Bay didn’t either. They both saw him as a utility guy and he didn’t get regular at-bats.
A perfect corollary, of course, is Justin Turner, who didn’t hit when used as a utility player with the Mets and only became useful once the Dodgers gave him a starting job. Sometimes players need regular at-bats to succeed. Coming off the bench is hard.
Its simple. He continued to develop and got better. Much like Rich Hill, JD Martinez, Rick Porcello, Jose Ramirez, Brian Dozier, … Its really not that uncommon, and it is “real”.
Yeah, this pretty much. Once the Rays made him the starting 2nd baseman, his performance improved dramatically. Forsythe isn’t a player that consistently does well off the bench as it would seem, so as long as the Dodgers give him regular playing time (if they trade for him), his performance should be similar to that of the last 2 years.
I definitely don’t think he is worth Urias, though, and I’m a Rays fan. Something based around a guy like Verdugo, Calhoun, etc. plus a few lesser pieces would probably get the job done.
Turner got better not because of his role, but because he changed his swing. His role changed because his production improved, not the other way around. Hill is another case where the player made a major change in his approach and it worked. Still wondering what made Forsythe better in this last two seasons.
why would you assume he wouldn’t be worth his option lmao.
Because of his middling career production and the $8.5M price tag lmao.
I assume you think jake arrieta sucks then? and that the most popular band around is the backstreet boys? 2 years of solid production. one year you can consider luck. 2 years is being ignorant.
He has been worth over 30m the last 2 seasons. Team is gonna take that gamble on him unless he fs his sht up
8.5 mil is the price of 1 war on the free agent market. forsythe has been worth about 55 mil the last 2 years.
This is the dumbest thing I’ve read on here in a while
He got regular at bats. He got a defined role. This isn’t rocket science.
And if you’re doing that thing where you are insinuating that he’s using PEDs just knock it off. These guys get tested. A lot.
I assume you don’t know that Arrieta is under team control, or maybe very much else.
what? I’m replying to him saying being good for 2 years means nothing using arrieta as a comp. I assume you lack critical thinking skills.
Is this supposed to be serious? Forsythe was a first round pick who had an .840 OPS throughout the minors, including an OBP over .400. He then had less than 1100 injury plagued PA as he was adjusting to MLB, before becoming an everyday player at age 28. His last two seasons, he has had regular at bats and been an above average hitter and one of the best second basemen in baseball.
Is Justin Turner worthless because he was a replacement level player for 3 different teams before figuring it out 3 seasons ago at age 29?
You should learn about what you don’t know, because wRC+ is an offensive stat that doesn’t take defense into account at all. It shows that Forsythe has been a better offensive player than Dozier or Kinsler the last two seasons. Now if you include defense, Forsythe falls slightly behind the others. That would be evidenced by him having a lower WAR. Just because he gets lost in Tampa Bay doesn’t mean he isn’t one of the top second basemen in baseball on a ridiculously team friendly contract.
Seriously, did you read anything I wrote? Anything at all? If you are bringing new information to the discussion, fine, that’s the question I asked.
you didn’t bring any information, calling a guy average who has been above average 2 years in a row. also suggesting he isn’t worth 8.5 mil when Brett Cecil just got 4 yrs 30 mil and kendrys morales got 3/33 is just dumb.
bluesky your post is just full of dumb get off my grass attitudue
Okay, here’a another example. When Chase Headley came up the Padres, for some reason, tried to play him in left field so they could make room for the execrable Kevin Kouzmanoff. Headley was a disaster in left field and at the plate. It wasn’t until he was moved to his natural position at third that his bat took off. Sometimes a player plays better in a more defined role. Jonathan Villar, this season, is another example. As soon as he stopped being a utility player he became a very good contributor.
He’s not a crazy starting point for one of the best lefties in baseball over the past 5 seasons and is only 27 with an amazingly cheap deal for the next 3 years…
Well in his defense he said other than for Sale.
The guy I’m responding to did not say that. Unless I didn’t read through the other Dodgers rumors too much (which would be on me), I’ve only seen Urias’ name kicked out in Sale offers.
Keep hearing were not gonna sign Turner or Jansen! What are these guys thinking they have been dodgers an were gonna let them go like its nothing! This front office is pissing me off!! Had a perfectly good 2nd baseman in Kendrick if you let him play everyday he will show you what he can do!
I have a feeling they want others teams to sign Jansen and Turner so they can get draft picks to restock the farm for when they unload it for Sale (and possibly Frazier and/or Robertson). They would also receive potential compensation if they let Frazier go next offseason so it isn’t so bad if they deal 4-5 of the best prospects this off-season.
They can re-coup some of what they lose I mean.
Relax man. You’re reacting to a bunch of animated ignorance. The Dodgers want to resign JT, Kenley and Hill. They have a limit though on just how many years they will go on each one of them. If “stupid money” shows up chasing those guys, like it did last year on Greinke, then we may well not get any back. On these three guys though, I don’t think they will be outbid for the number of years the LAD are willing to commit.
I agree w norcalblue. Dodgers are typically very quiet on the FA and trade front so I think a lot of the “noise” is because it’s difficult to get reliable information from the FO and media types need something to write. Still very early in the process.
Where do you keep hearing this? Voices in your head? Before getting pissed off, why don’t you wait until something actually happens worth getting pissed off about. And Kendrick is not the answer.
1
Letting Jansen go makes sense if they sign Chapman or Melancon. Neither is attached to a pick so they could potentially sign one and get a pick by letting Jansen walk. If they don’t sign any of the big three closers out there (or trade for one), then letting Jansen wall doesn’t make sense.
First of all he wasn’t really a perfectly good 2b. His lack of range was clearly evident. I love Howie too but he never seemed to fit on this team especially considering the 2 hole is now where you insert you best hitter. Regardless this seems like due diligence. People need to relax the new CBA hasn’t even been signed. Once it is and winter meeting roll around then people will start flying off the board. Although Turner is the safer bet to be resigned. There is nothing in the system to replace him nor is there any legitimate available options that will allow them to address their SP needs.
Hes a guy whose always produced solid WAR, so he’ll cost a bit
Forsythe for Verdugo and Barnes
I’m really hoping a Sale to LA deal includes him.
Why would they trade Barnes when all they have at catcher is grandal
They still need a backup catcher
Dodgers prefer a veteran back-up and they are a dime a dozen.
If they really preferred veteran backup catchers they would not have traded Ruiz.
He was going to be owed 4.5 million. Dodgers can get better production and get younger in FA for much less..
Seattle didn’t think so, obviously. They not only took on the $4,5m for Ruiz but sent LA a player.
Seattle…’nuff said.
Not really.
Doubt you see a Forsythe trade unless the Rays go full rebuild. If the SP they decide to trade is Archer (Which is a longshot) then a Forsythe trade is logical. Otherwise trading one of the more reliable hitters on a team without many isn’t very smart. This sounds more like the Dodgers checking all possible options.
They can move Miller to 2nd and sign Steve Pearce for 1st. I think they can trade Forsythe, and one of Smyly/Erasmo/Cobb and still leave a window open for things to break right while getting good future value.
Rays won’t move miller to second his arm is terrible.
He can handle 2nd. Only reason they did not move him there is because of Forsythe. I mean they handed him short knowing his limitations. He can handle 2nd fine.
I just don’t particularly see this going through. This, to me, is the Dodgers merely doing due diligence on all options for 2B. Any deal for any 2B will have to include Willie Calhoun. It’s a good thing most of the clubs we are supposedly looking at (Twins, Tigers, Rays) all play in the NL, so for them, worst case scenario for Calhoun is he turns into a solid-hitting DH.
I’m with you. The Dodgers are talking to many, many teams. Some of that gets leaked, some of it doesn’t. Despite what is asserted here, no one knows what they’ll end up doing. That said, your assessment makes the most sense to me. Calhoun does not seem destined for the NL and I do not see his skill set to be something this FO places much value in.
As a Jays fan, please oh please trade him Tampa.
I’ve watched Forsythe quite a bit; he’s a pretty good player. Solid if not great defense, decent range, more offense than you get from most. And the money is equitable.
Calhoun fits, as does Barnes; Rays haven’t had a good defensive catcher since……..actually they’ve never had one, But Calhoun & Barnes is a little light. Maybe toss a Josh Sborz in there and I can see it happening.
Rays actually have some IF depth in minors (Adames, their best prospect, Danny Robinson), and they did originally draft Calhoun……
What the heck. This clown Friedman can only deal with Tampa Bay. What a joke Dodger ownership should fire him immediately along with the clown car of washed um GMs on staff.