10:00am: The teams have announced the trade. The Brewers will also receive a player to be named later or cash from the Red Sox.
8:20am: Tuesday morning at the Winter Meetings kicked off with some action, as the Red Sox reportedly agreed to a trade that will net them right-handed setup man Tyler Thornburg from the Brewers in exchange for third baseman Travis Shaw, minor league shortstop Mauricio Dubon and minor league right-hander Josh Pennington.
[Related: Milwaukee Brewers Depth Chart and Boston Red Sox Depth Chart]
Thornburg, 28, gives the Red Sox not only an imposing late-inning force but one that is under club control for the next three seasons, as he won’t be eligible for free agency until after the 2019 season. The former starter had a breakout season in the Milwaukee bullpen last year, pitching to a 2.15 ERA with 12.1 K/9, 3.4 BB/9 and a 32.4 percent ground-ball rate in 67 innings. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projects a $2.2MM salary for Thornburg in his first trip through the arbitration process.
Late-inning relief help has been a priority for the Red Sox, who saw Koji Uehara, Brad Ziegler and Junichi Tazawa all hit free agency at season’s end and also went without 2015 trade acquistion Carson Smith in 2016 due to Tommy John surgery. Thornburg will give manager John Farrell an intriguing setup option to closer Craig Kimbrel. Thornburg figures to slot in alongside converted starter Joe Kelly and Matt Barnes as right-handed options for the time being, though there’s certainly room for Boston president of baseball ops Dave Dombrowski to add another relief arm to the mix.
The Brewers have now traded their three top relief arms in the past five months, sending Jeremy Jeffress to the Rangers, Will Smith to the Giants and Thornburg to Boston. As it stands, right-hander Corey Knebel could be in line to see save opportunities in Milwaukee, though the team could host an open competition there. Alternatively, Milwaukee could lure a second- or third-tier arm to their rebuilding club on an affordable deal with the promise of offering an opportunity to close out games. In addition to providing the Brewers with some needed veteran stability in the ’pen, that tactic could also yield yet another midseason trade chip if he ultimately performs well in a high-leverage role.
The package that the Red Sox are giving up will be headlined by Shaw, who should slot in as the primary third baseman for his new organization. Shaw struggles against left-handed pitching and may well require a platoon partner, but he’s a controllable addition for Milwaukee GM David Stearns. Shaw hit .257/.325/.437 against right-handed pitching last year and showed potential 20-homer pop by hitting 16 homers in 530 plate appearances. He hit just .187/.235/.364 in 115 PAs against lefties, but he stands out as a solid if not well-above-average defender at the hot corner, depending on one’s preferred metric (+1.1 UZR, +10 DRS).
Most important, when it comes to Shaw, is that he’s controllable for another five years and won’t even be eligible for arbitration until after the 2018 season, making him an eminently affordable long-term piece. His inclusion in the deal opens a number of doors for both teams. In Milwaukee, it seems as though his acquisition definitively pushes Jonathan Villar off third base and over to second base, as has been suggested, thereby making Scooter Gennett either a bench piece or trade fodder himself. The Red Sox, meanwhile, could use Brock Holt and/or Pablo Sandoval at third base until Yoan Moncada proves ready to inherit the position on an everyday basis. Boston could also realistically look to pursue a different upgrade at third base, either via free agency or trade, as they look to field the best Opening Day roster possible in a season where they once again plan to push for a deep postseason run.
Dubon, 22, was a 26th-round pick by Boston back in 2013 but has risen to the point where he’s regarded as one of the organization’s top overall prospects. Baseball America rated him seventh (subscription required and recommended) among Boston farmhands earlier this offseason, writing that he doesn’t have one plus tool but has very good bat-to-ball skills and enough defensive ability to play an average or better shortstop. He’s also plenty versatile, having spent time at second base and in center field, making him a potential utility option in the Majors at the very least. He could open 2017 in either Double-A or Triple-A, depending on how aggressive the Brewers want to be with him. Dubon split the 2016 season between Class-A Advanced and Double-A, where he batted a combined .323/.379/.461 with six homers and 30 steals.
The 21-year-old Pennington was Boston’s 29th-round pick in 2014. While he didn’t crack the top 10 recently penned by BA, he did rank 22nd on MLB.com’s midseason list of Boston’s top 30 prospects. Per their report (via Jonathan Mayo and Jim Callis), Pennington boasts a 70-grade fastball (on the 20-80 scale) but doesn’t get great movement on the pitch or command it especially well. They also note that he has the makings of an above-average curveball as well as a work-in-progress changeup. He’s a starter for now but could move to a short-relief role if that doesn’t pan out, and one can envision his velocity ticking upward further if that plays out. Pennington spent 2016, his age-20 season, with Boston’s short-season Class-A affiliate, pitching to a 2.86 ERA with 7.8 K/9 against 4.3 BB/9 in 56 2/3 innings.
Evan Drellich of the Boston Herald first reported that the two teams had agreed to a trade that would send relief help to Boston and Dubon to Milwaukee (Twitter links). Baseball America’s Josh Norris tweeted that Pennington was in the deal, and Alex Speier of the Boston Globe reported (on Twitter) that Shaw was expected to be included. FOX’s Ken Rosenthal first tweeted that Thornburg was going to Boston.
Photos courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Thornburg?
That’s my guess.
I’m disappointed that Mr. Dubon went he had just as good as season as Moncado and Bentidini did also
And right at the moment gentleman the Sam Travis door is wide open
And also guys that’s another left-handed bat out of that lineup anybody really think they’re going to go get a right-handed DH
Doesn’t really change anything if Pablo is starting 3b I’d prefer the best option @ this point not just handedness.
That leaves a freaking hole At third i’m not sure I could handle Pandas defense there
I still think they sign or trade for a 3b option platoon @ the very least Harrison or someone like that.
Pablo’s fat body is blocking that door unfortunately jammed in there pretty tight
They still have Brock Holt who they could play at third. Overall I dont like the trade, personally.
The Red Sox sure do need that bullpen help.
Probably Thornburg?
What kind of story is this? Breaking news! Some team is trading players to another team for some other players. Lol
What exactly do you expect them to report here?
And it’s a pretty substantial addition to the Red Sox bullpen.
I guess they could keep pumping out more articles speculating where Sale ends up, or how teams are shooting them down because the ask is too high.
Yea but what in return
I would imagine a prospect.
I agree this is too funny, Thornburg would help the Soxs tho..
Thor burg will help..
If it’s him, you will not like the trade.
The Red Sox acquire Blake Parker for Lorenzo Cedrola
Calling it now
Biggest let down of the winter meetings
Thornburg is obviously the best, but I can’t imagine the Brewers trading him without a big return.
Go Cards
Josh Pennington going to Milwaukee
Thornburg won’t be cheap!
Shaw Pennington Dubon
Holy crap. Travis Shaw to Milwaukee too.
Disregard the Holy crap part of my post. I was thinking of one of their top prospects Sam Travis. Not that Travis Shaw is bad or anything.
i hear its braun for sandoval and betts.
Boooooooo
Socks will never trade Mookie Betts for Ryan Braun, don’t even bring that up, that’s a dumb statement,
I’m pretty sure he was being sarcastic.
Guys let’s go get another right-handed bat and Ryan Braun we can pull Toronto type of lineup
Its Thornburg
Gotta be a big prospect heading to Milwaukee.
Mauricio Dubon to Milwaukee too.
Looks like Sandoval and Moncada will be going at it for starting 3B job
My gut tells me mom caught is not going to be ready come April he couldn’t handle the curve ball last year and need more seasoning
Moncada sorry
BREAKING: Red Sox trade Travis Shaw, Josh Pennington to Brewers for Tyler Thornburg, via Evan Drellich.
Nope. Shaw and ClassA P Pennington
Thats what he said
I know my phone is glitching. Was supposed to be commented on someone else post. That was my own I commented on. Oops
No Dubon?
Wonder if Shaw is in the deal as well..
He is. Along with ClassA pitcher Josh Pennington.
BREAKING: Travis Shaw, Josh Pennington headed to Milwaukee for P Tyler Thornburg. According to Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich.
Shaw is INF, Pennington is ClassA P. Thornburg is MLB P
Yes. You’re on a baseball site. We know this. You’re just clogging comment sections repeating what reporters have already said. Please stop.
Good lord guy, he isn’t bothering anyone other than you. Calm down.
Apparently you haven’t been to other posts where he’s going on and on trying to claim he’s a reporter.
I don’t think I’ve seen him claim to be a reporter, but rather that he is just reporting what he sees from Twitter about the Winter Meetings. Although I agree that needing to include each player’s position/current organizational status is unneccessary, but that doesn’t bother me.
He’s definitely claimed to be a reporter on other posts.
I am 95% sure all of us here knew who Tyler Thornburg is, and that he is an MLB Pitcher.
Oh I thought he was a tennis player.
Nice job Milwaukee seems pretty good to get a potential 30 hr guy for a reliever
Good luck man. Shaw in infuriating.
That’s a bloody steal for Boston with the price of backend bullpen help these days. 3 years of arbitration control on Thornburg too.
Dubons also going to Milwaukee
Updated: BOS trades Travis Shaw, prospects Mauricio Dubon, Josh Pennington to MIL for late inning pitcher Tyler Thornburg.
Red Sox get a very underrated reliever without giving up a top 10 prospect. Only downside is Panda likely replacing Shaw at 3B. But I still call this trade a win for Boston.
Yeah when I seen it was Thornburg I expected a better return than this. Great pick up for the Red Sox.
Dubon was the number seven prospect in Boston, I believe
I definitely wouldn’t say a steal for Boston, but I don’t think it was a major overpay, either. It’s more of a win-win. The Brewers got a very strong package for him, and the Red Sox didn’t really give away anybody that wasn’t expendable.
Dubon is definitely top ten for Boston. Late round draft pick, but scouts have been increasingly high on his tools every year. He was ranked #9 on BA’s midseason update. At that time, he had slashed .306/.387/.379 in 62 games at Single-A, and he finished his season by slashing .339/.371/.538 in 62 games at Double-A. I can’t see how a 21 year old middle infielder with solid defense and 30+ steal potential, who posted that line at Double-A, would not move up in the rankings, let alone remain there. Right now, he was ranked #9 on SoxProspects, #12 on MLB.com, #7 by Baseball Prospectus, and #7 by the Boston Globe.
However, it’s been pretty well known that he was trade bait for Boston – just no spot for him. With Pedroia and Bogaerts in the big leagues, and Yoan Moncada, Marco Hernandez, CJ Catham, and Deven Marrero all in the picture as well, he had no spot in Boston’s future.
Travis Shaw will never be a star, but he’s got big-time power potential, great plate discipline, several years of control, improved his defense big time this year, and has had periods of success at the MLB level.
And Pennington was a 29th round draft pick – but there’s much more to that story. He was one of the top arms entering the draft before requiring Tommy John Surgery, and Boston took a chance on him that so far has paid off. He missed 2014 as he recovered, but since then, he’s put up excellent numbers for Boston (7-4, 2.29 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 8.12 K/9, 0.3 HR/9 in 78.2 IP between GCL and NYP). He has some control issues, but his stuff is electric.
It’s not overpay – they didn’t give up any of their major trade chips – but still, it’s a pretty impressive package for a 28 year old reliever who’s had one excellent season, two very good seasons, and two so-so seasons. Especially when you consider the fact that there are still a ton of elite closers and relievers, former star closers, solid relievers, and high-ceiling arms still on the market (Jansen, Chapman, Holland, Romo, Storen, Wood, Rodney, Zeigler, Casilla, Blanton, Blevins, Morrow, Tolleson, Tazawa, Maness, Withrow, Ramirez, Nathan, Jepsen, Matusz, Logan, Smith, Hochevar, Lopez, Dunn, Petit, Salas, Albers, etc., etc.).
They can have Shaw, He was expendable for the Soxs.
Shaw is a good dude, but he is an average MLBer. You can sign any Lyle Overbay/Adam Lind veteran type and get the same results.
You apparently weren’t paying attention to the Brewers signing of Eric Thames. Shaw will play 3B, probably platooning with Hernan Perez.
Yet to be seen how thornburg can handle the AL East lineups compared to the NL Central..especially without a “power arm”. Kid sits at 93
Yeah those NL East lineups are so much better than the Cubs, Cards, Pirates, etc. that Thornburg faced on a regular basis. Geesh.
Thornburg vs. the Cubs, Cards and Pirates in 2016:
22 2/3 IP 8 Hits, 0 Runs, 12 BB, 29 K’s.
Thornburg has a good fastball that he can get up to 96, a devastating curve, and an above average changeup.
So they’re going to go with Pablo at 3B?
Or Moncada but he probably needs a half a year in AAA.
Good trade for both teams Dubon was blocked and Travis Shaw really fell off a cliff in the second half but both should help the Brewers. The Red Sox bullpen definitely got better.
They traded Travis Shaw n two minor leaguers
Shaw is a cautionary tale for the Yankees and Bird. They had similar 2015 campaigns in the majors. Sox put him as a starter and he slowly got exposed. Bird strikes out more too.
Travis Shaw has 778 career PA. Bird has 178 career PA. Shaw is also a platoon player whereas Bird is a 1B. Not a great comparison. Not to say Bird won’t get exposed more, but I don’t get why you’re comparing these 2.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2015&month=0&season1=2015&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=11982,14131
This is why. Yankee fans are expecting this level of production because of his small sample. Just like Shaw’s. Don’t put all your eggs in one basket.
Actually we aren’t. We don’t know what to expect out of him because he missed all of last year
Also, their wRC+ is not even close. Shaw has a higher WAR because he can play multiple positions. Again, this is just 2 random players you are comparing.
I’m just going to simply state it again, most (not all) Yankee fans have no clue what to expect of Bird. FWIW, Steamer projects Bird to have a 122 wRC+.
Bird is competing with Tyler Austin for 1B in Spring Training. Cashman literally said this yesterday.
The only reason that’s the case is because Bird is coming back from shoulder surgery. If Bird is 100% healthy first base is Birds.
Bird is a left hander, Austin is not. Bird has a lot more power if healthy than Austin. Like I said the ONLY reason there is any competition is because the Yankees want to make sure Bird is 100% healthy.
That’s fine to believe (and it’s probably true) but my response was to the sentiment the Yankees put all of their eggs in one basket with Bird. They didn’t, he hasn’t even earned the starting role right off the bat and Austin is nothing to sneeze at as a fallback option should a worst case scenario play out with Bird over the course of the year.
I don’t think the Soxs will keep Pablo at all..He could b traded as well.
Who would take him? Sox would have to eat almost all the money
Just have Pablo eat the money, eating is what he’s best at.
I liked Travis Shaw the first time I saw him, when he was called Scott Cooper. Except was better with the glove. You have to have prolific offence out of 3rd base anymore and Shaw isn’t it.
Ahh, Scott Cooper. The prospect who made Jeff Bagwell expendable!
Nice pickup for both teams. Thornburg is largely underrated…should be right up there with Jansen and Chapman based on 2016 stats…
Wonder if Red Sox will give 3B over to Sandoval for a last shot now..Maybe a run at someone like Justin Turner? Then again they need a lot of money to give that young core…..Mookie Betts extension? Perhaps?
They can live with Panda until Moncada is ready probably after the Allstar break.
Especially with their desire to stay under the luxory tax they won’t spend big $ @3b.
Thornburg is very good, and underrated, but he is absolutely nowhere near Jansen or Chapman, no matter how you look at it.
These are their 2016 lines:
Thornburg: 2.15 ERA (2.83 FIP), 0.94 WHIP, 12.1 K/9, 3.6 K/BB
Chapman: 1.55 ERA (1.42 FIP), 0.86 WHIP, 14.0 K/9, 5.0 K/BB
Jansen: 1.83 ERA (1.44 FIP), 0.67 WHIP, 13.6 K/9, 9.5 K/BB
He was significantly worse in just about every category, not to mention that he was not nearly as good in save situations:
Chapman: 36-39 (92.31%)
Jansen: 47-53 (88.68%)
Thornburg: 13-21 (61.90%)
And these are their lines the past five years – the gap grows even bigger:
Thornburg: 2.87 ERA (3.83 FIP), 1.19 WHIP, 9.0 K/9, 2.4 K/BB
Chapman: 1.84 ERA (1.68 FIP), 0.94 WHIP, 15.7 K/9, 4.30 K/BB
Jansen: 2.22 ERA (1.97 FIP), 0.86 WHIP, 13.6 K/9, 6.4 K/BB,
Huh. I thought Thornburg would garner a better return.
As for Pablo…lol, if BOS picks up all but $5-$8m/yr…MAYBE they could get a team to take him for a bucket of balls, otherwise his contract continues to be one of the worst in the majors.
They got a very nice return. Thornburg had great numbers for exactly one year, in an extremely low pressure environment in Milwaukee, and is headed to the AL East with all its tiny ballparks (he’s an extreme fly ball pitcher who managed somehow to suppress HR’s last year). Meanwhile, Shaw is something like a league average corner infielder, Dubon is the best SS in the Sox system and a solid major league regular-to-be, and Pennington is a great arm. That’s a haul in any normal year.
Dubon is blocked and Travis fell off a cliff in the second half not saying it doesn’t help both teams but the Red Sox lost no one they couldn’t afford to lose. I also don’t think he DD believed in Travis Shaw at all.
Are you serious, they got a great return. As of right now I’d rate the trade as fair, if not slightly in the Brewers favor.
Sorry to see Shaw go, but I can’t help but say this deal looks like a definite win for the Red Sox. As for the Brewers it’s a wait and see.
I agree, hard to see the Mayor of Ding Dong City go, but its a good trade for he Sox. Ned to give something to get something and they really need bullpen help.
Wait until you make that judgment. Thornburg is a fly ball pitcher headed to the AL East, with one full year under his belt. And Dubon is a real prize. Actually, Shaw for Thornburg straight up is a decent match value-wise.
No way, reliever value is through the roof, Shaw for Thornburg would have been massively lopsided win for the Red Sox. This deal is about market value.
Shaw is probs a platoon bench bat. Right now No way is he worth 3yrs of a good reliever.
Yeah right on point Dubon and Shaw…. too much for a setup guy
Hey purple. Definitely a win for you guys. The downside is Pablo likely taking over at 3B now though.
Yeah, but Moncada should be ready to take over soon and if Sandoval has trouble early then Holt will probably get the nod. So it’s not the end of the world.
The simple truth is Sandoval’s value cannot get lower. Giving him a shot is more worth it than not.
I think Moncada needs more time still in the minors.
Well yes, at least 3-6 months.
Pablo will have a shot 2 start but I have a gut feeling that they trade him and eat some of the contract..
Well that’s how all rebuild trades go. Dubron and Pennington aren’t exactly bums. Shaw is a serviceable 3Bman if given every day ABs.
Thornburg just had his FIRST full season as a reliever. He was great, no doubt. But it was his first as a full time reliever because he is a converted starter that battled elbow injuries earlier in his career. So he does have that red flag.
As of today I’d rate it as a fair trade if not giving the BREWERS the slight nod because they got 3 players for a guy who’ll pitch 65 innings/year. Even if Shaw just turns into a slightly above average 3Bman it’s a fair deal IMO. I really don’t get why teams are coughing up do much for dudes that play a tiny fraction of the season. Sure solid BP arms are the desire, but to pay such a premium for them is asinine IMO. I still believe building a bullpen from with and through free agency is the most logical way to go about it. Save the prospects for more impactful trade for Starting pitching and everyday position players. There’s roughly 1,470 innings in a year for any given team depending on how many extra innings they play. A reliever, even the elite ones, only pitch about 65 of those innings, or about 4.4%. IMO that’s not worth what teams are seemingly willing to cough up for it.
Again, if Shaw keeps improving he makes this deal AT LEAST fair. I think he’ll develop 20+ HR power if given the every day gig. He’s actually a stellar fielder at 3B. If he can hit .270 again like he did in 2015 with a .320-.330 OBP he makes the deal worth it. He has the potential to be a .265-.270 hitter, .325 OBP, 20+ HRs, and d**n near gold glove defense at 3B…… I’d take that over 65 innings of relief pitching.
Wow thats all the brewers could get for thornburg?
Dubon is the 7th ranked prospect in the Sox system according to Baseball America. Add that to a power arm to groom in Pennington and a decent player in Travis Shaw and I wouldn’t say the Brewers are going home sad about this. They traded a setup man for all that. And if he keeps throwing up 3.4 BB/9 against the AL East beasts, he’s gonna watch those other peripheral stats climb a bit higher. Craig Kimbrel came over and watched his stats climb (from 3.3 BB/9 to 5.1, watched the ERA suffer for it) and he’s a similar pitcher to Thornburg. Both teams will be happy with their return, but the Red Sox are the ones taking more risk here since they have a contender right now and need Thornburg to stay great.
All they could get for Thornburg?
For one, Thornburg was nowhere near this good in his previous four seasons. So we can’t pretend he’s Wade Davis, Andrew Miller, Aroldis Chapman, Mark Melancon, or anybody else that has years and years of production.
Second, this free agent market is loaded with relievers – from elite closers (Jansen, Chapman) to solid set-up men and high-ceiling arms (Matusz, Maness, Zeigler, Morrow, Dunn, Rodney, etc.) to reclamation projects (Holland, Romo, Casilla, Storen, Tolleson, etc). Additionally, many teams have been open to trading top relievers, so the demand for a guy like Thornburg was not through the roof.
Third, this is a great package for Milwaukee.
– Dubon is a top ten prospect for Boston. He’s an excellent defender with great speed, strong makeup and work ethic, excellent contact ability, and rarely strikes out, so his floor is pretty low. Scouts love him more and more. And he was a monster at AA this season – slashing .339/.371/.538 with 48 runs, 32 extra-base hits, and 40 RBI’s in 62 games – as a 21 year old middle infielder.
– Shaw has been inconsistent for Boston, but he’s a major league ready player. He’ll likely never be a star, but he’s got big-time power potential, good plate discipline, improved his defense big-time this season, and has had steaks of success at the MLB level before.
– Josh Pennington may have been a 29th round draft pick, but he was one of the top arms heading into the draft before needing TJS. Boston took a chance on him, and after sitting out 2014 to recover, he’s been excellent for them – 2.29 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 8.1 K/9, 0.2 HR/9 in 78.2 IP between the GCL and NYPL. He has some control issues, but his stuff is electric.
I think it’s more talent than almost any team would have given up for Thornburg, but Dubon and Shaw are both expendable for Boston.
I like it but I really hope this doesn’t go the Melancon, Hanrahan, Carson Smith route.
Jury is still out on carson smith but the rest you’re right with.
Andrew Bailey too.
How’d I forget Bailey? That was a tough one. Then watching Reddick go for 30+ Hrs and a gold glove.
You forgot Bailey and Gagne
Bobby Jenks too lol
Didn’t they get Brock Holt in the Melancon deal? I wouldn’t call that a major loss. As for the Carson Smith mention. What’s the problem? Yeah it sucks he has to have surgery but who did they cough up for him, Wade f’ing Miley? Oh no.
“Boston could also realistically look to pursue a different upgrade at third base, either via free agency or trade, as they look to field the best Opening Day roster possible in a season where they once again plan to push for a deep postseason run.”
Wow, what analysis! As if every team isn’t trying to ‘field the best Opening Day roster possible …’ Someone’s bias is showing. Got that hype machine is firing on all cylinders. That was some deep post-season run last year! Three games.
Does this set up Justin Turner to the RedSox? or do they really believe in Panda?
I highly doubt the Red Sox are bringing in Turner when they have Moncada waiting in the wings.
no proof Moncada can play 3b. he was a struggle bus when he got his 1st cup … Turner would be great for boston.
When I see this, I can’t help but think that it means Boston is going to spend some money on the market.
Sure, the players they gave up were pretty expendable to them, but still, this free agent market was insane for relief pitching. Why wouldn’t they just go out and sign one of the many, many arms available? Seems to me the FO is allocating money for a pretty significant free agent signing.
I could be completely wrong, but that’s my two cents.
Could Thornburg still conceivably start? Like as depth as a swing man?
He had much better success as a lights out reliever. He plows through hitters with just his fastball and curveball. Keep him as a RP.
He had a great stretch of starts for MIL several years ago. But I think in the wake if injuries and his strong year and half in the pen, he is there to stay. And he projected as a late inning reliever for years.
Even though Thornburg is a good reliever, I feel like Dombrowski gave up way too much. Shaw was expendable, but is at the very least a good backup, and Dubon has hit well at every level so far. Trading those two and even more prospects for a middle-of-the road reliever (of which there are plenty on the open market) is an overpay. Brewers fans really have to love what Stearns has done so far!
I would say that Thornburg is more than a “middle-of-the-road reliever”.
…and the decimation of the Red Sox farm system begins. Have fun with DD as your GM.
Wow, that’s a pretty decent haul for the Brewers for a reliever how just came off his first great season of his career. Was pretty average pre-2016. He walks his fair share of guys too. Still managed to nab them a decent IFer in Shaw, and 2 decent prospects in Dubon and Pennington. Dubon is a really interesting prospect. Looking at his MLB.com profile under the Red Sox top 30 prospects on a 20-80 scale he rates as a 55 on Hit, Run, Arm, and Fielding. Only thing he isn’t rated as a 55 on is his power which is at 35. Despite this they only give him a rating of 45 overall. Weird. 40=below average, 50=average, 60 = Above average. So 55s across the board seemingly means he is slightly above average, no? Yet overall he’s rated as slightly below average. Makes no sense to me. Dubon’s scores across the 5 tools average out to 51. To put that in perspective if you average out Devers’ ratings across the 5 tools he averages a 52 in each category.
Dubon is an interesting add for the Brewers. As a Cub fan I’ve always liked the Brewers for some reason. Kind of like the little brother you root for until you play each other and just want to beat the sh** out of him. Really glad to see they’re giving Counsell more time to manage that team. I can’t believe Thornburg went for that much though. Not to say that Dubon and Pennington are exactly stars in the making, but still 3+ for 1 reliever…… 1 reliever who just had his break out season? Seems a bit crazy to me. Good on the Brewers I guess. Between this little haul and what they got for Jeffress and Lucroy during the season, Brewers looking to be in good shape soon. Brinson is looking to be no joke and Ortiz is looking like a solid top of the rotation SP. Toss in Shaw and Dubron and things are looking up for the cheese packers.
Forgot about Bickford & Susac as well, that was a nice haul from SF. The Brewers have gotten really nice players in their rebuild so far, they are going to be in really good shape in a few years. Bickford, Ortiz, Nottingham, Susac, Shaw, Brinson, Arcia, Hader, Ray, Phillps. Geez they are loaded & still haven’t unloaded Braun or possibly Villar would would bring them back even more, Hats off the Stearns.
Could the red sox sign Turner now and play him 3b until moncada is ready then move turner to DH
Brewers also receive a fourth player to be named later or cash. The gift that keeps on giving.
Good deal for both teams. Brewers probably get the nod for an “edge” because Shaw is actually under-rated (he’s average; average is not a bad thing) and is actually quite good defensively. The other pieces are more than lottery ticket-prospects; you can make the case that both will be decent.
Gotta agree with the praise for Sterns. He’s really doing some good stuff with the few assets he has. Brewers don’t need set-up relievers; they need better overall quality. This deal gives them that.
I bet the Soxs trade Moncada.I think he will b in a deal 4 Sale .
I don’t get why the rSox fans are so anxious to get Sale. I think you’ll regret it much like I assume you’re regretting the Kimbrel deal. Sale has the worst mechanics in MLB and it is no secret each year he battles nagging arm soreness. In 2013 the Sox skipped a few of his starts do to soreness. In 2014 he was on the DL because he had a flexor strain in his pitching elbow. In 2015 he started the season on the DL due to a foot injury. 2016 I don’t think he suffered any setbacks…… other than from sporadic mental breakdowns by chastising the front office over LaRoche to start the year off and then going full diva on the team’s uniforms by cutting them up. Not only is he an injury red flag, but he has the personality of Jennifer Lopez….. a b**ch…….. I wouldn’t want that on my teal regardless of how good you think he is. At least not for the insane asking price the wSox want.
Not sure why some Brewer fans are wondering how that is all they got?
I like Thornburg and I don’t think that last year was a fluke as he seemed to have finally figured out his mechanics and control, but you’re still talking about a guy with only 1 great year under his belt who faltered a bit in pressure situations (only 13 for 21 in save chances, he was much better as the 7th inning guy before the Jeffress and Smith trades). In return they get a 3B with pop who will probably start against righties and then platoon with Hernan who hits a HR every 10 ABs vs lefties. A soft-handed middle IF with speed, great contact skills, and a little bit of developing pop whom MLB.com already placed into the Brewers top 10 prospects. A flyer of an arm in Pennington who was fairly highly regarded before his TJ surgery and is still working his way back. The floor for him seems to be a power bullpen arm is he can gain a bit of control. Plus then you may get another Wild Card in the PTBNL or cash? With names like Chapman, Davis, Jansen, Casilla, Ziegler, De La Rosa, Romo, Storen, Feldman, Uehara, etc all out there as other options this was a very decent return.
Thornburg was actually a beast when he took over closer duties. A cursory glance may miss that because his 2nd half stats are skewed by his last 3 outings of the year when he got hammered and blew 3 saves, which was likely due to overuse/fatigue than anything else. Before that he was 11 for 12 in save opportunities after taking over the closer duties after the Jeffress trade at the deadline. Most of those blown saves you referred to were actually from his time as a 7th inning arm.
Yes, he was 8-12 after getting moved to the full time closer.role and 4 of those blown saves came earlier in the year, but that’s still not a great conversion percentage. His 8 blown saves was 3rd in all of baseball last year. And those last 3 most certainly were not the result of overuse or fatigue, he threw only 9 1/3 innings in the entire month of September and only 67 innings all season. If he was warn out then the Brewers shouldn’t want him as their closer. His WHIP over his time as the closer was at 1.27 and was .98, 1.18, and .54 in the three months before that. I’m not saying his numbers weren’t good, I just don’t see him as a dominant shut down closer that could fetch the type of return that some Milwaukee fans seemed to be expecting. I for one am happy with the return they got.
Thornburg is just a scrapheap reliever. Can’t believe he has this kind of value.
Lol. According to you ‘scrapheap’ relievers mean a RP that ended top 12 in WAR, 12+/K9. WHIP under 1, and ahead of names like Melancon, Ramos, Giles, Kimbrel, Ziegler… to name a few. He was better than any BOS RP last year. So you now have a BP of all scrapheap players or worse. He also has 3 years of control and closer experience.
Just wanted to come here to say this, I played baseball with Pennington from Little League through high school, and I have to say, I have never met a more hot headed kid at that age. One time, while playing a LITTLE LEAGUE tournament, we were crushing some team, and due to little league rules, we had to walk a bunch of players so we could play another inning in order to get someone in the field who needed to reach their inning quota. Push comes to shove, the other team wound up taking the lead, and we were going to lose. JP went up to the plate, and I’ll never forget this, goes “If I strike out, I’m rushing the mound”. Sure enough, he strikes out, throws his helmet in disgust, and rushes the mound. Our coaches wounded up leaving in handcuffs, lol.
Beyond that, the guy was money on the mound, but still a loose cannon. Would throw at kids constantly, slid spikes up, the works. I’m sure this doesn’t mean anything now considering the talent and coaching he has come into, but I remember these moments fondly of a kid who seemed insane to my young self. I wish him the best, it was fun being on the field with him watching him mow down opponents, just not when he let himself get inside his own head.
Yes, your musings on Pennington’s little league temperament add so much to evaluating his status as a prospect.
So the sox managed to trade Wade Miley, who they didnt want, to the Mariners for a solid middle reliever. I get that. But giving up a legit prospect AND Travis Shaw (only 26 and a solid defensive 3rd Baseman) for an NL reliever? When did the trade value for random bullpen arms go through the roof? Spin zone…this makes the Kimbrel trade look like a STEAL for the Sox!
Red Sox got a very good pitcher. 25 more K’s than Innings pitched. He’s got some nasty stuff
I am actually really shocked by how many Brewers fans are excited about Shaw. This trade is almost horrible for the Brewers. I do like the prospects they received but Shaw is a waste of space at 3B for this team. The Brewers have almost 0 prospects of value at 3B throughout the organization, so I’d much rather see a guy like Villar stick at the spot so they have someone there for the long run. Shaw has been a 1B impersonating a 3B so far in his career and I don’t expect that to change. Maybe if the team didn’t just sign an ex kbo gold glove 1B for 3+ years I could understand this move some, but to move Villar from 3B to 2B and basically just swap out Scooter for Shaw is pointless. If anything Scotter has more value then Shaw. I get Scooter is strictly a 2B but I’d bet money he could play 3B much better then Shaw can play 2B and given that Scooters down season is equal to Shaws breakout season at the plate i’d always choose a 2B with a 728ops over a 3B with a 726ops. Call me crazy but I just don’t see the upside of swapping 1 out for the other especially when it also involves giving away a cost controlled young reliever and moving Villar from a position he could stay for years to a position of strength for this team. This not only forces Milwaukee to trade Gennett, but it forces them to either move or deal Villar within the next 2 seasons given the fact they have multiple future 2B in the minors that will need 40man spots in the near future including 1 from this trade and last years organizational minor league player of the year (Diaz).