While the deal is still awaiting a physical to be finalized, we learned yesterday that the Nationals had agreed to a two-year, $21MM pact with Matt Wieters that also allows him to opt out of the second season (and second $10.5MM payday). As the Nationals wrap up that move, and begin looking ahead to perhaps one more roster tweak to come, it seemed like an opportune time to take two quick polls.
By most accounts, the Nats paid less than Wieters was expected to earn entering the winter. Despite lower-than-expected demand, there were other suitors still in play, so perhaps also the deal reflects a still-active market. And in the final analysis, it’s an objectively reasonable price tag that reflects Wieters’s abilities but also his limitations.
Still, market-value deals often make more sense for some teams than others. Dave Cameron of Fangraphs isn’t sold that the Nats were the right team to make a play for Wieters, given the presence of Derek Norris, Jose Lobaton, and Pedro Severino. On the other hand, there may well be other considerations — the front office’s assessment of Wieters’s pitcher-handling and pitch-calling abilities, a scouting assessment of his hitting, etc. — that could impact the analysis. (There’s plenty more discussion of Wieters’s overall value in the above-linked post on his signing, as well as in Cameron’s piece.)
Then, there’s the question of what the team does next. This signing would look somewhat different if, as various reports have hinted, the team goes on to move Norris (along with his $4.2MM arbitration salary and remaining season of control) as opposed to Lobaton (a lower-upside veteran who is also cheaper at $1.575MM and set for free agency next winter). And it would be another matter entirely if the move was designed in part to free up Severino, who currently features as a part of the organization’s long-term planning at the position, to a acquire a late-inning reliever.
Regardless of what happens with Severino, it’s likely that the team will still need to decide between Norris and Lobaton as a second backstop. Though both Wieters and Lobaton are switch-hitters, the former has thrived traditionally against lefties, while the latter has been better against right-handed pitching. Norris, meanwhile, has wide platoon splits that suggest he’s most effective against southpaws.
Since the Nats’ next step impacts the assessment of the deal with Wieters (assuming it’s finalized), we won’t ask a simple yes/no on whether it’s a good signing. Indeed, there are alternative viewpoints on which ensuing transaction truly matters most in assessing this deal, since it’s reasonable to argue that any trade involving Severino really isn’t dependent upon the addition of another short-term, non-optionable veteran. Instead, then, we’ll ask: how would you characterize the move at this point?
(Link for app users.)
they can’t carry anymore catchers so why did they sign him him
Because he is an improvement over Norris. Any fan should be happy to add an improved player.
False. Just because he is an improvement, it doesn’t mean that he is a necessity. The Nationals are in dire need of a closer, and this definitely does not help the situation. I think some fans are overrating Norris and Lobaton. Neither would really bring back a quality closer the Nats are looking for. In addition, Wieters isn’t getting any younger and anyone who has been watching him play, can start to see it. Therefore, your only option left would be to move him to first but he will be incredibly underpowered and just not quite there offensively, that a first baseman should have. Bad signing IMO.
Agreed. The only way Norris could work in say, a possible Robertson deal, would be to help offset some money owed to Robertson and then 2-3 additional upside players would have to come over for the Sox taking on Norris. The Sox can then hope he bounces back so they can trade him in June/July.
You speak as if getting a massive upgrade over Derek Norris is going to impede their search for a closer. Nope.
Norris is worthless on the trade market too, they are best just releasing him.
…Besides, he’s “old”, right?
Did you grow up with Derek Norris? Was he really mean to you?
Lmao. False. It’s a two year deal with an option out. He won’t be around long enough to warrant a move to first. He still has a good arm. Even after the surgery. This in no way at all impedes a potential trade for a closer.
Prior to this unnecessarily expensive deal, I would have bet on Severino being the starter by mid season.
If he isn’t in a deal for a closer, I bet he starts in AAA for the year.
Lol should have just let him sit
Should let all of boras clients sit
Why because he’s good at his job?
Derek Norris should be at AAA, not MLB. Bad defense bad hitting = give someone else a chance.
why would anyone do that I mean yes I don’t like it but they did also get them for a discounted price as they sit on the other side I use
sorry for the errors by the way I meant to say that well I don’t like the deal it was a discount for Washington by the way I am a nationals game
I meant fan
I meant the soda
ethan – you can edit posts on here, no need to update mistakes!
Not on mobile.
Why do you say Norris has bad defense? DRS and BP both rate him as an above average defender and better defensively than the recently signed Wieters. Also, before the second half of last season, he had a track record as a fine hitter for a catcher.
Norris will bring garbage in the trade market. They should trade Wieters for a closer… haha…oh wait…
they already tried that and look where it got them
Why would another team trade a closer for someone they could have just signed a couple of days ago? Not to mention Wieters would have to approve that trade due to league rules about trading newly free agents.
It reminds me when Carlton Fisk left the Red Sox for the White Sox oh they a World Series.you see what I see now
Nope, because that does not make sense.
The notion that Norris has any trade value is crazy. The Nats have to make roster moves to fit Wieters as far as I know, so something has to give.
Wieters is an expensive minor upgrade in my opinion
they should have signed joe blanton
In a vacuum, the signing of Wieters is fine. However, everything I’ve seen talks about how the Nationals are at the top of their spending limits. If this is true and Wieters costs them a chance at signing or trading for more BP help, I would say it is a bad signing. I don’t believe he is that much of an upgrade over Norris for this upcoming season and if the extra $15 million guaranteed over the next 2 seasons limit the Nats from signing or acquiring more BP help I think it was a poor allocation of resources.
I agree with that. I also think they will probably not be keeping any reliever that would make over a million like Nathan, Albers or Worley now.
Good move. Wieters has had injury issues that have lingered into the past couple of years. But this may be the year he gets fully back, and can play enough games to get in a rhythm. If so, he’s a stud defensively (ignore the idiocy of “advanced” stats and watch a game, and then find out his pitchers and fellow fielders think). That’s what the position is really about when you’re a team relying on its starting pitching staff. His offense has been up and down, but he’s still a power threat from both sides of the plate.
If the Mets were a big market team, then this would have been an even better move for them with their young pitching staff.
If they can still move a catcher for someone like, sat Robertson. Then the signing will make more sense.
But not really any point in having 3 MLB catchers with a good backup to that group. And nobody really plays another position like Castillo/Schwarber.
I think they will receive good value for the money. But I believe in fit over raw talent personally. If Norris can be included in a trade for a closer (or Lobaton) then it would help explain this better.
They need a closer, not a 4th catcher.
Can wieters play first at all? That’d make this deal a bit better
Doubt that’s a meaningful consideration. They have Zimmerman and Lind available, as well as Robertson (if he sticks around or ends up in Triple-A after being outrighted).
I completely forgot that Lind was added. Thanks, Jeff!
it’s not a horrible move, but it does indicate the need for another one, with the catching “surplus” and an additional allocation of resources for a closer. So, until we see what’s next, I don’t know how you judge it.
That was sort of the point of the post and the way the poll was set up — like, what move would make this make sense? (Or do you think it makes sense regardless, etc.)
I think it makes sense regardless of what the next move is because the money they spent on Wieters is modest for a catcher who is clearly an upgrade over the other three options.
If they get anything of value for one of the other three catchers its worth it and a huge thing working in their favor is that Norris and Severino both have options remaining. There’s little to no risk of them being forced into DFA’ing someone. If no one is offering anything of value in the short term they can start the year with those two in AAA and wait for something to catch their eye. This is a premium position so its only a matter of time before someone has a need.
Didn’t need to be done
Should of let weiters sit out the season
None of the poll options reflect my feelings, which are mixed about acquiring Wieters. It could be a tolerable acquisition if they don’t end up trading away Severino in the aftermath. It’s more important to keep Severino than Norris IMHO, especially if the reliever to be acquired is simply so-so.
Norris, however, probably has very little trade value and the Nats might end up not being able to further bolster their BP by trading a catcher, presuming they keep Severino. So I’d like a poll option that registers that acquiring Wieters might be OK as long as the Nats don’t boot Severino.
As a Braves fan, I like this deal.
I think the terms are pretty much right at what was reasonable after this long offseason. I just don’t understand the Nats pursuit of him… feel like the Angels had much more of a need and made sense. I’m biased, but the Nats traded for Norris already… who BTW people are so quick to write off. Norris is a bounce back candidate in my opinion if he can get 350-400 ab’s