The Braves are once again in the market for controllable starters, reports David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Atlanta was linked to names like Chris Archer, Jose Quintana and Sonny Gray last season and throughout the winter, and the Braves still have interest in that group of pitchers, according to O’Brien. While they’ve scouted Gray’s recent outings for the Athletics, it’s Archer and Quintana that sit atop Atlanta’s wish list, O’Brien continues. The White Sox, of course, are known to be open to moving Quintana, but there’s no guarantee that the Rays would even consider moving Archer. To the contrary, Tampa Bay is two games above .500 and currently sits just one game back of an American League Wild Card spot and three games back in the AL East. Archer currently holds a 3.88 ERA with 10.9 K/9, 2.9 BB/9 and a 42.5 percent ground-ball rate through 104 1/3 innings, and he’s controllable through the 2021 season with just $33.7MM remaining on his contract following the 2017 campaign. It would presumably take a staggering package to even get the Rays to consider moving Archer, given the current state of their team.
A bit more on the trade market…
- Atlanta is far from the only team to scout Gray’s most recent starts. Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle reports that in addition to the Braves, the Cubs, Blue Jays and Mariners all had multiple scouts/execs on hand for Sunday’s start, and the Red Sox had a scout there as well. Slusser notes that some clubs have been scouting infielder Jed Lowrie as well, adding that it’s “all but certain” that the Athletics trade Lowrie before the non-waiver deadline. Boston is one team that’s likely to have interest in Lowrie, she adds.
- Yahoo’s Jeff Passan spoke to one source that said the Red Sox are “keen” for Gray, though they’re also considering aiming for a power-hitting third baseman and acquiring another reliever rather than bolstering the rotation. Stacking another arm alongside Joe Kelly and Craig Kimbrel at the back of the ’pen could give Boston a trio similar to the three-headed monster similar to the 2014 Royals (Kelvin Herrera, Wade Davis, Greg Holland) or the 2016 Yankees (Dellin Betances, Andrew Miller, Aroldis Chapman). That was the idea in acquiring Tyler Thornburg this past offseason, but Thornburg will mis the entire year due to thoracic outlet surgery. The Sox, could, however, get righty Carson Smith back, though it’s difficult to know exactly what to expect from him after losing a season and a half to Tommy John surgery.
- White Sox GM Rick Hahn spoke to Ken Davidoff of the New York Post about lefty Jose Quintana, acknowledging that he’s been involved in “various conversations” with other clubs and that the ChiSox are “very open-minded” about dealing him. It’s been reported previously that Quintana’s rough start may not have much of an adverse impact on his trade value, and that’s how Hahn is approaching talks. “For the guys with extended track records, I think that’s probably the most important factor in terms of determining their value as well as the contractual control and obligations going forward,” said Hahn. “…He’s the same guy. The same guy in terms of how he goes about his business.” Rough start aside, Quintana entered tonight’s game with a pristine 2.25 ERA and 24-to-8 K/BB ratio through 24 June innings, and he’s held the Yankees scoreless through six innings tonight as of this writing. Davidoff notes that the Yankees could very well look into rotation upgrades, speculating that Quintana and Gray will be among the names they explore.
Damn that’s an accurate article. Quintana just finished the 6th and this was published. Wow
As far as the Braves, No thanks on any of those 3.
What? Why?!… I’d take any of those 3 in a heart beat. Goes to show all those prospects they traded every offensive piece we had for and then keep claiming it makes our farm the best in baseball is way far off and we need to trade for a ‘#1’
Braves need to just be patient for a few years & see how their farm shakes out. The Nationals have the division locked up this year & next most likely. The Mets are also better, when healthy. In 2 years they will have a lot of the guys up & ready to take over the division
exactly braves can’t contend this year but will be in great position in a few years
I’m with you. I would like them, but not for the haul that they will want. (not that they all deserve the haul, cause they probably do). I just think the braves should wait it out a little longer and see how some of these prospects turn out. No reason to sell them yet when they themselves could turn into great controllable assets. i doubt most will regress so much that they lose their value.
Newcomb looks good
archer makes sense. The other two don’t. Not enough control on the others.
It wouldnt make sense for the rays to trade archer. Especially now that they are becoming more competitive again.
Quintana has more team control left than Archer and he is a lefty so personally I think he is the best fit
No. He doesn’t.
Quintana has 3 years of control left same as archer
Wrong.
I firmly agree, the Braves do NOT need to deal for any of those three. The costs would be high.
While of course those three are highly regarded pitchers it isn’t out of the realm of possibility that guys like Newcomb, Allard and Soroka could all be giving Atlanta quality innings by 2018. There isn’t a huge need to deal for a pitcher at this point.
I think they want to get one of these players now as they are heading into their prime so whenever the rookies come up we can have two seasoned starters at the top of the rotation instead of just an inconsistent Teheran. Quintana would also help keep our pitching staff competitive this year
Sorry make that a 1.78 ERA through 5 June starts. That, along with his track record makes Q an ace. Forget the 2 blips this season. And no the White Sox do NOT want Schwarber in any package. A controllable ACE through next 3.5 seasons, along with the knowledge that the Sox want to and WILL trade him makes him the most intriguing chip on the table come trade deadline. All that for appx $42mm over the next 3 1/2 years. The phone lines are open
If Schwaber is in a proposal it should get an immediate call disconnection.
The value is inthe eyes of the beholder. On one hand, you have fanboys that think he is the next coming of babe Ruth. The rest of the world realizes that he is a Adam Dunn-type that the leagues has figured out how to pitch to
What about us who think he’s not going to be Babe Ruth but still be a .260/.360/.490 ish hitter?
.260/.360/.490
That’s if he never faces another LHP, Right??
As a true White Sox fan you should also realize this fact: Not one White Sox club has ever reached the postseason since moving into their new park in 1991 without hitting at least 200 HR’s during the regular season.
Some White Sox fans fear that Schwarber may be the second coming of Adam Dunn. Perhaps he will be, but maybe the younger version that put up tremendous power and OBP numbers with the Reds.
Perhaps Schwarber will be more like the second coming of future HOF slugger Jim Thome. Few White Sox fans would complain whether he was the younger version with the Indians or the older veteran with the White Sox.
Regardless, the White Sox have not had a truly impacting left-handed power hitter since Thome was traded to the Dodgers in August of 2009. Imo, Schwarber would look very nice protecting Jose Abreu in the White Sox batting order for the next couple of seasons and even better as one of their core middle of the order sluggers when the team finally becomes a perennial contender as soon as 2019. Remember the 200 HR reference and also couple that with the bevy of elite power arms that figure to comprise a future White Sox pitching staff before dismissing the notion of Kyle Schwarber being a potential cog should he be available in a trade for Jose Quintana.
Not a fan of that stat. First, they made the playoffs in ’93 with only 162 homers… Second, they’ve only made the playoffs 3 other times since then. That’s because they haven’t put very many good teams on the field, home runs or not.
When they won it all in ’05, they hit exactly 200 homers on the number. That was their second lowest total (by far) from ’00 to ’08, where they missed the playoffs 6 out of 9 years. They didn’t win it all because they hit 200+ homers; that’s just a coincidence IMO (they also had their lowest team ERA since ’81…). They’ve also missed the playoffs 6 out of 9 years where they’ve hit 200+ homers…
They need to focus on building a strong, athletic ball club that is capable of playing great defense. If those ballplayers can combine for 200+ homers, that’d be excellent, but it’s not a necessity in my book. That’s why I’d MUCH rather have a player like Eloy Jimenez than Schwarber if we were dealing with the Cubs. He’s going to provide similar pop, but he’s not going to be an all-or-nothing guy, and he’s not going to be an awful defender.
Sure, a potential team with Abreu, Moncada, Schwarber, Burger, Collins could absolutely mash, but it’d be a really mediocre team IMO (unless the pitching was unbelievable). I’m already not 100% sold on the direction they’ve gone with their #1 draft picks the last two years (would’ve much rather had Lewis last year – think they did decent this year for what was available, but I would’ve loved for Beck/Adell to drop), and I don’t think adding Schwarber to it would not be a great move.
Don’t forget the signing of top international free agent prospect Luis Robert that preceded the June draft. The 19-year old 5-tool Cuban CF would have been a consensus top-3 pick had he been eligible for the domestic amateur draft and it gave the White Sox more leeway into focusing on advanced college bats with their early picks to expedite their rebuild. They chose sluggers at organizational positions of need with their first two selections, 3B Jake Burger in round 1 and 1B Gavin Sheets with their second pick.
There’s a lot of potential power with their recent acquisitions that now also include two elite 5-tool prospects in Moncada and Robert. They also have a lot of athleticism in a graduated former #1 prospect, SS Tim Anderson who has elite speed and the potential to hit 15-25 HR’s annually with his exceptional bat speed.
Btw-I also mentioned “the bevy of elite power arms that figure to comprise a future White Sox pitching staff” at the end of my commentary which is certainly a major part of the formula for a successful White Sox team going forward. You would be hard pressed to find any organization with a similar collection of power arms on their active roster or in their minor league system. A future rotation of Carlos Rodon, Michael Kopech, Lucas Giolito and Alec Hansen could be formidable along with other possibilities like Carson Fulmer, Reynaldo Lopez and Dane Dunning, not to mention Zack Burdi and his 100+ mph arm in the bullpen.
And the White Sox are just in the initial stage of their rebuild. with more prospects to come through trades and additional high picks next June and beyond.
Remember Dayan Viciedo?
I’m a Rays fan, so I don’t have a horse in this race, but I agree with you on Schwarber. In a potential Cubs trade for Quintana, if I was the Sox I would hold out for Jimenez. A package of Jimenez, one of the Cubs FV 55 SP Cease or De La Cruz and then a live armed future BP guy like Underwood would be the type of package I would be looking for in a potential trade for Q.
And who would you be looking for in an Archer trade?
I want to start by saying with the Rays in the thick of the playoff hunt this year and with almost everybody locked up for several more seasons, I don’t think they should trade Archer. Now if for some reason they collapse over the next month and decide to cash in their largest trade chip at the deadline he will cost more than Q. With Archer having 4.5 years of control with a ridiculously team friendly deal, I would expect a return similar to Sale.
Sale returned Moncada (65 FV), Kopech (55/60), Basabe (50/55) and Diaz (45 FV, with a double plus FB). The return I would look at from the Cubs would probably be something like Jimenez (60 FV), one of Cease or De La Cruz (both 55’s), Candelario (50/55) and Clifton (45/50). I know it’s steep, but 4.5 incredibly cheap years for a #1 would be extremely expensive. The good news for the Cubs would be they get to keep their current team intact and Archer is cheap enough not to interfere with them adding another TOR arm in FA.
Nicely done., ryan You may have even undervalued him a little.
What? I’m a Sox fan but I would love to have Schwarber as PART of a deal. Did you forget what he is capable of? Forget what happened in the world series after being out the year with a torn up knee? Come on man. No way the cubs are selling low on him though. His power and patience at the plate, I will take it. He will figure it out.
Want no part of Schwarber. He had a great World Series but that is just one week. Though it’s a small career sample size , he is a .200 hitter with a 30% strike out rate. Plus a defensive liability wherever he plays… no thanks!
DH in American league bud
While I agree that he’ll figure it out eventually, using the World Series is a horrible example. That was the ultimate small sample size. I’d rather have Jimenez if they deal with the Cubs.
So you’re going to ignore a larger sample of 237 PA in 2015 in which he put up a 132 wRC+. The impatience of fans these days is absurd. He’s only 24.
Let’s not forget that Anthony Rizzo had an even more reprehensible debut, and he’s been a perennial 5-WAR stalwart since.
Now would be the time to buy Schwarber if you’re an American league team rebuilding.
As Jimenez is one of the top prospects in baseball, he will not be significantly cheaper despite still being at A+ ball.
Remember when Cubbia fans said Schwarber was too good to be included in a trade for Sale?
That was fun.
Plenty of young players struggle. Rizzo was terrible his first two years. Would you have traded him for half of a year of a reliever?
What does fans being too dumb to want to include Schwarber in a package for Sale have to do with trading Rizzo for a rental reliever?
Yes ad I said previously I would want him as a part of the deal, not the only piece. I would also be good with Eloy and Happ. 2 months thus year is also a small sample size, hell his whole career is a small sample size. Just saying the talent is there and he showed it in the biggest spotlight.
I Remember when the Cubs won the World Series without Sale last year. That was fun
Trout was also sent back down. Schwarber will be like Thone. If you don’t want that kind of player, fine.
Thome I total agree that Scwaber 100 %
Probably not both Eloy and Schwarber. Happ is gonna be a no. Theo has said he’s not moving anyone on the active roster.
Eloy / Schwarber, Zagunis, Clifton and LaStella would be more realistic. Cease is a possibility.
Quintana’s below-average strikeout totals, 44% career gb rate, ever-declining FIP,
and lack of postseason experience all reduce his appeal.
Michael Conforto got sent down last year and look at his numbers this year. Your opinion on schwarber is awfully short-sided.
That’s what happens today with all the media hype, fans expect too much out of their players. It can take a few years in the majors before you know what you have in a player. And then theirs injuries like the Dark Knight,
Cubs /Theo would seem like there genius if they keep little Babe Scwaber he will get over his sophomore slump bat wise.
And Cubs fans wonder why most fans outside of Wrigley love making fun of Schwarber failing?
Hint – It’s not because they hate Schwarber…
32 million, not 42
You’re absolutely right Steven. $32mm over next 3.5 years. Even more of a bargain
Most fans over-value their own teams players and prospects. In Chicago, many supporters of of one team or the other also tend to de-value the player or prospect on the other side of town. Since I am a die-hard fan of both teams, I tend to have less bias with the second point.
I’m not changing my lofty opinion of either Quintana or Schwarber.
Quintana has demonstrated that he is in the top echelon of MLB pitchers since becoming a full time starting pitcher in May of 2012. He may not be a dominating ace but his consistency, durability and contract make him an extremely valuable commodity. “Q” has not missed a start since becoming a starter, has pitched 200+ innings in every season as a full time rotation member and has put up all his numbers in a hitter friendly A.L. home park with little support from his teammates which reflects on his mediocre W-L record and MLB leading amount of no-decisions. If anybody wants to dispute this it can all be verified with his WAR numbers which place him in the top-10 of all MLB pitchers since he began his career with the White Sox.
Imo, Schwarber will be more than a “3 outcome” offensive player. His OBP numbers are good and will prove to be excellent with an increase in BA. He has always hit for a solid BA at every level of amateur and professional ball with the exception of his limited sample size during an MLB regular season. IMO, his BA number this season is an aberration and partly the fault of his manager’s poor decision to make him a lead-off hitter. His .246 BA in his abbreviated rookie season of 2015 was also lower than what I would expect once he becomes a regular member of the 3-4-5 in an MLB batting order. Schwarber’s minor league batting average of .333 is better than Kris Bryant’s .327 and Ian Happ’s .275 numbers and he certainly didn’t get as many “leg” hits as either of those two more athletic batters. Schwarb’s also has .364 BA in 14 MLB postseason games that cover 51 PA’s. I believe he will hit for a comparable BA to what Jim Thome did in his MLB career which was .276…or higher! Clearly, Schwarber also has unprecedented power potential and might also match Thome’s HR numbers at some point, especially if he plays predominately in the American League where he can remain in the lineup everyday as a DH/LF. So, I’ll lower my Babe Ruth expectations, which were based entirely on Schwarber’s batting stance and HR distance and align him more with Thome. lol
Wtf shut the hell up geez
Perhaps by the time you turn 61 you will be have the ability to post a well thought out comment that contains more than one sentence and with no abbreviations.
Seconded
bigpapi4ever is that you?
I’m uncomfortable discussing Schwarber in the same sentence as Thome. You’re talking about a guy with the 6th most home runs in history. A history of over 18,000 players. Schwarber is one of many young power hitters in the game right now – dial it back a wee bit.
Comparing Schwarber to Thome is completely insane at this point. Thome is very likely at ballot Hall of Famer in 2018.
Schwarber has potential, for sure, but the consistency and longevity needed to replicate Thome’s numbers is incredibly unlikely to happen. Schwarber’s numbers against left handed pitching are awful to the point he’s nearly unplayable against them.
I like Schwarber, and think he can get back on track to be a solid player, but hall of fame is nuts at this point.
There’s little doubt that trying to project Kyle Schwarber’s career numbers to equal those of Jim Thome is extreme optimism. What’s less of a stretch might be to envision Schwarber’s annual numbers. matching those of Thome. Is it totally unrealistic to predict Schwarber putting up a triple slash of .277/.402/.554 which was Thome’s career average?
I might have predicted such an outcome as soon as this season for Schwarber in a stacked Cubs batting order, especially if I knew he was going to be utilized properly in the middle of a batting order that also featured Anthony Rizzo and Kris Bryant and primarily only started games in LF when a right-handed pitcher was on the mound as most every Cub fan anticipated coming into 2017.
As I mentioned before, Schwarbers’ numbers (.334/.428/.609 triple slash as I post) as a similarly advanced college bat surpassed those of both Kris Bryant and Ian Happ in the Cub minor league system. He’s also demonstrated an ability for excellence in the postseason with his .364/.451/.727 metric in 14 games and 51 PA’s.
Sure, Schwarber has struggled in his first 135 regular season games and 539 PA’s to this point, numbers that were posted in parts of 3 abbreviated seasons due to a midseason promotion in his rookie year, an unfortunate season ending injury in his second year during his second game and the demotion this season after a miserable start in the leadoff role.
It’s also hardly a stretch to compare the MLB profile of both Schwarber and Thome who look to be very similar players with their skill sets across the spectrum, be it offensively, defensively or with their plate presence as menacing left-handed power hitters.
If you were to conduct a vote among Cub fans and asked them which of their hitters was most likely to hit 40 HR’s in a season I’d be willing to bet Schwarber would have topped that poll just based on his raw power and prodigious blasts.
Furthermore, if the White Sox were fortunate enough to land Schwarber in a trade, I’d be willing to bet that an affable and humble Jim Thome who is their Special Assistant to the Senior VP/General Manager, would be one of the first to contact Schwarber, offer his congratulations and tell him in how much he reminds him of himself, all in a manner which would not put undue pressure on the young slugger.
Your poor keyboard.
I guess that depends on your definition of the word ace I don’t think he is an ace and it has nothing to do with him this year I consider very few pitchers true aces Kershaw sale sherzer bum ect
He’s a #1 pitcher on many teams. When people say “ace” I think that’s what they mean.
He’s not an ace. Please stop saying that.
Rays aren’t trading Archer,. Quintana has an extra year of control over Gray.
Quintana for Allard and Acuna
+ ONE of Pasche, Wentz or Muller
No to allard or acuna
O.K. Albies and Maiton then.
I understand loving your propsects. But realize that some goofy offer like Fried and Gohara won’t get it done.
*Maitan
Id do Maitan and Albies but wouldn’t do Allard and Acuna
Maitan is probably the only untouchable. And if it were me Acuna would be too. While it obviously would take the best, if it couldn’t be done without those two, I would look elsewhere. Especially given the Braves lack of position prospects in their system.
I’m pretty shocked by those comments. I’d have thought Albies would be the untouchable, because he’s the on closest to MLB, and therefore the one who, with Quintana, gives them the best shot at a playoff run in 2018. Allard, Acuna and Maitan won’t be ready for 2-4 years, and you have plenty of other Pithcing prospects + Pasche and Waters.
Very enlightening.
Albies isn’t ready to compete at the level the Braves would need him to in order to compete in 2018. Braves need either a lot of pieces or quite a few things to go right to get in the post season next year.
That is probably a realistic deal, but as a braves fan, I would be really hot if we gave that up for a piece who wouldnt even put us over the hump. If we were legit one pitcher away from a playoff run, then sure…but Q wouldnt do that for us, so no way I would make that trade..
And honestly, we just gave Maitan a crazy amount of money, I seriously dont see him getting traded before he plays a single minor league game
I am admittedly an outsider here. But I felt like the Braves were Albies, Newcomb, Quintana and a FA acquisition from a Wild Card next year.
Then graduating some of your pitching prospects and fine tuning things for WS runs in 2019 and beyond.
Thanks to the Braves fans here for the knowledge.
You guys have built up an enviable cache of prospects. Hope things work out.
Sorry noraj9 you are very misinformed about the Braves organization. While there are a ton of high end pitching prospects there are also a high number of position player prospects as well. Guys like Albies, Maitan, Acuna, Demeritte, Riley, Pache and Cumberland just to name a few who would be welcomed additions to any minor league system.
Pplama, You might want to reassess some of those guys. Allard, Soroka, and Acuna are all only 19 but are absolutely dominating in AA. It is very likely that all three could be contributing in Atlanta by mid season 2018.
Acuna has some excellent surface stats this year, but looking a little deeper, he also has an 83/23 K/BB in 72 games. I wouldn’t exactly say he’s “absolutely dominating in AA.”
That being said, I would still love to have him as the second piece in a Quintana deal.
And if you get rid of Maitan and Acuna, your list is diminished. Demeritte would replace Albies if he were included in the Q deal at 2B. The rest of those guys aren’t near the level of Maitan or Acuna. So no, no I’m not misinformed at all. Read any system scouting report you want. Just because you are enamoured by them doesn’t mean the entire world is. Braves fans are nuts when it comes to their own prospect values.
Swanson and Albies were off the table last year, doubt that’s changed.
Priggs, cherry picking stats to make a weak argument is flat lazy. Acuna is having an excellent year especially when you consider just how young he is.
K/BB is cherry picking? More like looking at the bigger picture if you ask me. Last time I checked, that’s one of the most important stats when seeing how a minor league player’s numbers will translate to the bigs… There’s a reason why a lot of teams don’t like promoting prospects until they walk more than they strikeout (or close to it)…
Dumb idea Maitan gonna be beast dude
You’re discounting age for level. If those were his K/BB rates at 23, fine. But he’s 19 1/2. He’ll be atop 30-50 prospect at mid-season updates.
Yes it is cherry picking. In the hundreds of stats out there, you went and found one an exception to essentially devalue him, which is absurd and lazy. Listen, Acuna would be the best prospect in a deal for Quintana, He wouldn’t be a “2nd” piece lol He’s currently the 88th best prospect in baseball and crushing it in freaking AA as a 19 year old. His stock is rising stupid fast. If that list was regenerated today, your talking top 50 maybe top 25 prospects. Quintana is a good pitcher, but completely overrated and he’s proving that this year. So don’t sit here and cherry picks stats to make out like someone isnt’ that good and should be a “2nd piece” in a deal lol!!! This kid is good enough to be a first piece in a deal for Quintana. 100% no doubt.
Where am I devaluing him? Was it when I said he has put up excellent surface stats, or was it when I said I’d love to have him? The only person I see trying to devalue a player is you trying to devalue Quintana.
And no, I’m not discounting his age because age has nothing to do with “dominating” a level. Either you’re dominating at that level or you aren’t. Again, he is putting up some excellent numbers, and as a 19 year old, it’s extremely impressive, but I wouldn’t call it “dominating.” If you want to say he’s putting up amazing numbers for a 19 year old, I’m 100% on board with that. But that’s completely different than dominating to me.
You had me until you called Quintana overrated.
He’s a 4 WAR pitcher with 3 1/2 years of dirt cheap control, giving him AT LEAST $80mil. in excess value.
And it looks like the only other available arm that comes even close ihas the added wrinkle of being an injury risk.(Gray)
Priggs- I’m not the one who said he was dominating. I’m also the one who had him as the 2nd piece in a Quintana deal. But saying “surface stats” implies a Dustin Fowler type year. (nice on the outside, but dig deep and there are big warts)
His age at AA contradicts that assessment. Age for level matters a ton. It’s why we shouldn’t buy into Jameson Fisher and should be very worried about Zack Collins.
I know you aren’t the one that said he’s dominating. I’m not really arguing with anything that you’ve said at all…
Age for the level does matter a ton when evaluating prospects, but saying someone is “dominating” isn’t an evaluation of a prospect. It refers to him putting up dominant numbers at whichever level he’s at. An .842 OPS on the year with significantly more K’s than BB’s (and more K’s than games played) is not dominant in my opinion. They’re fantastic numbers for a 19 year old in AA and say a ton about his future potential, but they aren’t dominant.
I don’t care if you’re 35 years old in high-A ball, if you have an obnoxious OPS of 1.500 or something ridiculous like that, you’re dominating. Does that make you a great prospect? No, absolutely not. You’re a 30 year old in high-A ball and likely don’t have a future in the game… But you’d absolutely be dominating that level that year. That’s all I’m saying.
I personally dont think Quintana is worth this haul. Allard and Acuna are stupid young and dominating much older competition. Those two are going to be good one day, and Quintana honestly isn’t as great as people are making him out to be.. Personally, braves should just sit back and not attempt for Quintana… the asking price is far to high for what he has shown. Quintana is a solid ball player, but not worth emptying a farm system for. 100% not worth that.
The only trade the Braves might consider for Quintana are
Anderson, Gohara, Pasche, and muller/Wentz.
I believe the Untouchables are:
Acuna, Maitan, Allard, Ozzie, Soroka, Wright
These guys I would never give up unless it’s a World Series run and we are a Chris Sale away from having it all figured out.
After that is the tradables imo. (Which are still a bunch of good prospects.)
diesel- Quintana is a 4 WAR pitcher with 3 1/2 years of cheap control. I understand liking your prospects, but please be serious.
If at least one of Albies, Maitan, Allard or Acuna isn’t involved, it doesn’t happen. If you don’t want him, fine. But silly proposals like that don’t add anything to the discussion.
So what you’re saying is 2 top 10 prospects in our farm (both are top 100) and 2 more additional top 20 prospects won’t be good enough?
I wouldn’t think that’s silly. I’m thinking realistically that’s what they would offer. I’m going based off who I believe are their untouchables and who they would be trading. Not saying I don’t agree with you (I’d personally would probably sale on Ozzie) but realistically something like this is the offer they’d give.
Also, I’d probably add Allard but take away one of Anderson/Gohara.
No, 2 backend top 100 prospects and a couple lottery ticket-types will not be enough for Hahn to make a deal. That kind of deal might work if he were a rental, but that’s clearly not the case. If that’s the best offer Hahn gets (highly doubt it), I’d be willing to bet he’ll be keeping Quintana until at least the offseason.
I’m saying it doesn’t get done without a top 50 prospect. Adding extra pieces doesn’t change that. The Braves FO knows that and wouldn’t try to throw a bunch of 75-150 ranked prospects at the Sox.
To acquire a 4 WAR, under cheap long term control LHP has to hurt a little. “Our system is so deep, you’ll be happy with a bunch of our second and third tier guys” isn’t a thing.
Can’t add Allard, then take out Anderson. Can’t get to $80mil. excess value that way.
what the heck??? no more “Quintana is garbage……Quintana is washed up…..” I think half the commenters just jumped off a cliff after this article was posted.
Braves have a great farm system. They aren’t going to be legit contenders for a couple more years anyway. This just seems like a dumb move to make since they will have to part with top prospects. They need to save up money for FA after next year to infuse with young guys & they could be like the Cubs last year
I think we can end the Archer trade talks already, not going to happen. The Rays are solid and only going to get better once there top prospects Adames, Honeywell, Bauers are ready to contribute
They might trade Cobb
If the cubs we’re trading for an ace, The package I think will be headlined by Eloy Jimenez and Ian Happ, Quintana makes sense for them imo.
Both teams’ GM’s have talked a lot about how a big trade between the 2 teams would never happen.
Too afraid of losing the trade and the ensuing fan backlash.
Plenty of other trade fish in the sea, with a lot fewer potential headaches.
If Theo offered up Eloy and Happ (he won’t), I guarantee Hahn would pull the trigger on that deal.
I do think Quintana is best fit for the cubs, but I don’t think the cross city rivals would do a trade.
A cubs- white sox trade this big will never happen. Both teams compete for the same fans. Moving a white sox fan’s favorite player could make him a cubs fan. Plus Reinsdorf hates the cubs.
That logic MIGHT make sense if we were talking about Chris Sale, but we aren’t. No Sox fan is going to turn into a Cubs fan because Jose Quintana is on the team. Heck, that’d even be a stretch if we were talking about Sale.
81-year old White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf is on board with the organization’s rebuild and will hardly be an obstacle in a deal with the Cubs if it can expedite the process. This is especially the case with Jose Quintana who is not in the same class of pitcher as Chris Sale.
The Cubs are the team in Chicago more likey to have concerns with a trade for “Q”, especially if it involves their remaining elite positional prospect in Eloy Jimenez or a significant young piece from their MLB active roster. The trade that makes the most sense for each club would involve recently demoted Kyle Schwarber as a centerpiece. He is a player more fit for the A.L. where he could DH as well as play LF. He would also fit perfectly in a White Sox lineup that has lacked an impacting left-handed power hitter since Jim Thome.
With Schwarber now at AAA Iowa, the Cubs front office wouldn’t have to back off of their claim about trading a piece from their active roster. He also faces a numbers game if and when he returns to the North Side with his limited ability as a LF only option and with so many other Cubs capable of playing the position, particularly switch-hitting Ian Happ who despite his versatility looks to profile best defensively there.
A trade for a much needed starting pitcher like Quintana isn’t just about 2017 for the Cubs but also for the future with both Jake Arrieta and John Lackey impending free agents following the season. “Q” would give the Cubs rotation a nice balance as an additional southpaw along with their ace Jon Lester. He would slot in very nicely in the #3 spot as soon as 2018 behind RHP Kyle Hendricks and be an affordably controllable rotation piece through 2020.
Aside from Quintana, there is only one other quality and controllable younger pitcher who is currently available right now, the A’s Sonny Gray. He would also be a fine addition for the Cubs with perhaps more potential as an ace he but lacks the consistency and durability of “Q” and has one less year of control as an arbitration eligible through 2019. It appears that the Astros are zeroing in on Gray and they would have a leg up on the Cubs if a deal involved high level prospects.
It’s possible another comparable arm or two might become available as the non-waiver deadline approaches but it’s doubtful that the Pirates would consider an inter-division deal with the Cubs involving Gerrit Cole who has the same amount of arb-eligibility left as Gray. A second solid option would be the re-acquisition of Chris Archer who would be controllable through 2021. He would cost the Cubs the most assets of any of these pitchers and it’s highly unlikely that a contending Rays club will be trading him anytime soon.
So, that puts us back to Quintana despite the obvious trepidation of completing an inner-city deal. Imo, it won’t be the White Sox who back away from such a deal as much as the Cubs, and this is coming from a 61-year old die-hard fan of both clubs. In fact, the last two significant deals involving both clubs had Reinsdorf as the White Sox owner. The first was the Sammy Sosa trade that benfited the Cubs long term while the second saw Cub pitching prospect Jon Garland coming to the South Side where he helped them win a World Series in 2005.
you must really enjoy typing.
Real fans don’t follow players to different teams. You pick a team and stick to it. You can still be a fan of said player like I am with Sale. But I didn’t become a Red Sox fan.
If I am the braves, I would stay the course. We are not going to win the division this year or next for that matter. I sat by and watched the rangers win with what we gave them for Tex while we ended up with a first baseman who was out of baseball two years later. How do we know it’s not the same thing. Coppy thinks we need an ace, how do we know that we are not trading them two of them with an all star player to boot. Please stay the course
The question isn’t so much whether the Braves should flip prospects for a controllable starter. The question is more when does ATL’s window open, and I’d say it opens in 2019, so do you want to trade premium value now for Quintana who while under team control for 3.5 more years, it really doesn’t matter what he does for Atlanta while they are not competing?
I’d say no, I think the earliest you seriously go after controllable studs is in the offseason. And yes Braves should eventually trade a good amount of their prospects, they have ridiculous amount of minor league depth but lack a truly elite piece (Acuna and Albies are very good prospects but they ain’t top 10 guys or getting 65 FV grades). No one should be off the table when they do trade their prospects, but right now they should wait a bit longer imo.
Thank you for making sure this thread had one intelligent thought.
I agree somewhat. If the Braves had a better rotation right now they would be contending for the wild card, so I could see the possibility of contending as early as next year and I understand Coppy’s eagerness to acquire a veteran arm. That said they are getting unexpected production from several player playing over their career norms. Hopefully the asking price will just be too high to justify moving prospects for a pitcher before the trade deadline. Maybe after the season is over the Braves FO can get a better read on the pitchers in AA and AAA. Also I’d rather see them trade prospects for a 3rd baseman. Who actually thinks the Freeman/Adams hot corner experiment is going to make it to 2018, let alone the month of July 2017?
I Would Rather See Either Johnny Cueto Or Jose Quintana Putting On Those Pinstripes In The Bronx.
Who would you rather give up- Frazier or Rutherford?
And Sheffield or Adams?
I think a package of either Frazier or Rutherford, Mateo, Sheffield , and Abreu would get it done.
I don’t think the Sox, or anyone else, has any interest in Mateo right now.
I know the Sox covet Andujar. I’m guessing they ask for Frazier or Rutherford + Sheffield or Adams or Acevado + Andujar..
I don’t think the Yankees would give up more than Frazier + Andujar + Tate..
Yankee prospects are on the rise! No way the Yanks are doing that for Q. Nobody liked Judge last year, how you like me now.
Is this the title to your new book? What’s with all the capitals?
It’s only a matter of time before Jose Quintana is traded. With so many contenders (and a pretender like the Braves) looking for a cheap and controllable quality starting pitcher and so few available from sellers, White Sox GM Rick Hahn should be able to get exactly what was seeking this past offseason and perhaps even more as the trade deadline looms in less than 5 weeks.
Agreed!
Hopefully he keeps pitching like he has in June. He was excellent again tonight against a very strong lineup.
It was interesting to me seeing names like the Mariners and Blue Jays added to the contenders (and Braves) potentially looking into Gray (assuming it’s him and not Lowrie). I’d have to imagine if that’s the case, they’d definitely be looking into Q as well. It’s going to be really interesting seeing how this plays out.
If the cubs trade Schwarber at all they need to get at least 2 ML pitchers and a prospects. 4 or 5 players mid to high prospects go the other way .Happ stays, Eloy Jimenez stays too.
You must not be very high on Schwarber. Only 2 major league pitchers and a prospect? Crazy
Or just very high
lol that’s the worst offer I’ve ever seen in this thread good job
At least 2 ML pitchers and prospects back?? I would seriously like to know what 2 pitchers you are thinking of…A year ago the cubs could have gotten a very good, young controllable ACE type pitcher for him, now, not so much.
If i am reading your post correctly, you think Schwarber alone is worth 2 MLB pitchers, and 4-5 mid to high level prospects?
Wrek305, please tell me who you specifically had in mind.
We’ll send you Bartolo, RA Dickey, and Patrick Weigel for Schwarbs
I like talking about that 2005 ChiSox team because I predicted them to win and was told I was crazy for it. They are still one of the most overlooked WS winners ever.
I began to notice the 05 team mid season 04 when they acquired Freddie Garcia, Jose Contreres and Carl Everett. They already had Jon Garland and Mark Buehrle. During the Winter, they signed El Duque, Jermaine Dye and AJ Pierzynski, They signed Tadahito Iguchi from Japan and made an addition by subtraction trade acquiring lead off hitter Scott Podsednik for Carlos Lee.
In truth I got lucky because I based my prediction partly on all world super hyped rookies Joe Borchard (near rookie), Brandon McCarthy and the return of Frank Thomas to form helping the team when it was more the emergence of Bobby Jenks and the bullpen of Neil Cotts, Dustin Hermanson and Cliff Polite that made the team airtight.
They started building the team under the radar the year before. The team complimented itself and was built based on the basis that the team is only as good as its weakest link…and it really had non.
Losing Mags to the Tigers was brutal. If they weren’t planning on resigning him, he should’ve been traded in ’04. This massive blunder was overshadowed by the ’05 team, which was a perfect storm of career years from many players. Too much credit is given to KW.
I think the Sox are long overdue for a complete rebuild.
Also let’s not forget the Astros as a team for Quintana. The teams I’d say are in are Astros, Yankees, Red Sox, Braves, Cubs, Dodgers and Pirates.
I may have forgot someone but those are the teams I expect to be linked to Q over the next 5 weeks.
I think it’s Astros, Yankees, Braves, Dodgers and the Rox as a long shot.
Plenty of interest to drum up a nice return. Especially if Cole, Archer, Darvish and Santana aren’t made available.
Yes the Rockies are the team I forgot. I don’t see Archer, Cole or Darvish going anywhere.
I’d take the Cubs and Pirates off that list.
I highly doubt the Red Sox are in on Q there entire rotation is left handed already and doubt they would be willing to send the haul the White Sox require to add another lefty to there rotation. Count the Red Sox out on Q.
I think the Red Sox will look at Sonny Gray if they do anything with staring pitchers. Wonder what he will cost.
Scouts from 10 teams were at the Sox game last night to see Q…I like that.
It is interesting to see how things change from year to year. Last year many rated Severino behind Musgrove in a Quintana trade, now he is off the table and a much better pitcher. Same goes for Schwarber, he was an untouchable last year, now not so much. Pitchers are outlier as is injuries in baseball. Sale is a winner and Porcello not so much this year. It’s a crap shoot!
ugh, no need for the braves to make a move now for these guys. I know we are 2nd in the division, but we aren’t making the playoffs. and none of these guys will put us over the hump soon… if we get two or all 3 guys, then yea maybe we get over the hump… but that’s so unrealistic it’s not even funny.
Braves should stick to the plan. We have SUPER young guys dominating AA ball and making noise through out the system. I truly believe if we just wait a year or two, our prospects will be well worth the wait. Continue to flip vets when possible. Matt Adams, Jim Johnson are two that I think need to go asap. I think we can get good enough return for them. Good enough is what it is… you trolls don’t go blowing that up to meaning top 10 overall prospects.. lol
I personally want the sox to trade Q to the yankees. Frazier/Mateo/Adams could get the deal done. Astros- Martes/Tucker/Whitley. Or Cubs- jimenez/happ. Etc or how about Schwarber/happ or baez
In Hahn we trust
Yankee prospects are on the rise!
If sox get Frazier from the yankees. Im not complaining. He looks the part and it would be cool to watch him beat up the indians
I bet TB is luring teams in with Archer I think. Cobb is a FA after this season – why not dangle Archer just to ask for an insane return, then say, “well, you could get for Cobb for just ______”
I really wish the Pirates would have traded Meadows and Glasnow for Archer before they crapped all over themselves this season. Good luck now.
Maybe they could have gotten a quality reliever out of it as well and they’d be right in the thick of things with the cubs having a down year thus far.