The Angels have had “extensive” internal discussions about the possibility of acquiring Ian Kinsler from the Tigers, reports Anthony Fenech of the Detroit Free Press. While Fenech notes that it’s not yet clear if the two sides have opened negotiations this offseason, he adds that the Halos’ interest in Kinsler dates back to late last season.
While Kinsler is certainly a logical target for any club in need of a second baseman, Jeff Fletcher of the Orange County Register casts some doubt onto how seriously they’ll actually pursue a trade for the 35-year-old (Twitter link). Fletcher points out that Kinsler is probably a genuine consideration, it’s unlikely that he sits atop the Halos’ list of targets due to the fact that he’s a right-handed bat and would only represent a one-year solution.
Two players that also appear to be on the Angels’ list of targets are free agents Neil Walker and Zack Cozart, per ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick (Twitter link). As Crasnick notes, though, it’s not clear if Cozart would be willing to move off of shortstop. He’s also a right-handed bat, though perhaps the Angels would live with that in order to have a defensively gifted middle-infield duo of Andrelton Simmons and Cozart for the foreseeable future.
Kinsler had a down year at the plate in 2017, hitting .236/.313/.412 in 613 plate appearances. Though his average, OBP and slugging marks all fell off considerably from a superlative 2016 season (.288/.348/.484), Kinsler still connected on 22 homers this past season and exhibited other encouraging signs.
For starters, the nine percent walk rate Kinsler logged in 2017 was his highest since the 2011 season, and his 14 percent strikeout rate was not only an improvement over the ’16 campaign but also tied for the 27th-lowest mark among qualified big league hitters. Kinsler’s 37 percent hard-contact rate was the highest mark of his career as well, but despite the uptick in hard-hit balls his BABIP plummeted to .244. Granted, some of that is attributable to a career-worst 14.4 percent infield fly rate, but the rest of his batted-ball profile suggests that Kinsler could be due for some better fortune in 2018. On the defensive side of the coin, Kinsler remains an excellent option and one of the more underrated defensive players in all of baseball, regardless of position.
Walker, 32, is the most obvious fit on the free-agent market. The switch-hitting second baseman would add the lineup balance that the Angels seem to crave, and he’s been an above-average hitter and steady defender at second base throughout his big league career. The limited number of teams aggressively pursuing second base upgrades and some recent durability issues could suppress Walker’s price point as well; we pegged him for a two-year deal worth $11MM per year on our top 50 free agent list, and while a third year is possible, it’d be a genuine surprise to Walker command anything longer than that.
Cozart is perhaps the most intriguing option of the bunch. The longtime Reds shortstop had a breakout season at the plate in his age-32 season, batting a ridiculous .297/.385/.548 with 24 homers in just 507 trips to the plate. Durability is a very real knock on Cozart, who hasn’t played more than 122 games in a season since 2014 due to a torn knee ligament (2014) and myriad hamstring and quadriceps issues across the past two seasons.
There are also skeptics when it comes to Cozart’s age-32 breakout, but even if his bat settles in at the .271/.340/.480 (115 OPS+) that he’s averaged across the past three seasons, that above-average output and Cozart’s strong glovework would make him an immensely valuable asset. As Crasnick alludes to, however, Cozart is a sterling defensive shortstop and it’s not known if he’d be willing to change positions to better position himself on the open market.
Regardless of the order of their preferences, it seems clear that the Halos are likely to add a second base upgrade this winter. The position is an easily identifiable area of need, as Angels second basemen collectively posted a ghastly .206/.274/.327 batting line in 2017, making them one of the two least-productive second base units in all of Major League Baseball. (The Rangers, weighed down by a dismal season from Rougned Odor, struggled similarly.)
In addition to the options listed by Fenech and Crasnick, the trade market contains options such as Dee Gordon and Cesar Hernandez, as well as more speculative candidates like Scooter Gennett, Jonathan Villar and Joe Panik (to name only a few).
Walker makes the most sense. He’ll be cheaper than Cozart, and has a better track record. Kinsler would cost prospects, something they don’t really have many of
And a switch hitter capable of batting in front or behind the big bats
They won’t have to give up much of a prospect to get Kinsler, as the Tigers are dumping $11 Mill from their payroll. Every team has a “roll the dice” A-ball prospect they can trade.
Fletcher also noted he asked eppler about gennett and didn’t like his defense
I would like to see the Angels add both Walker and Cozart (but probably won’t happen).
Don’t the Angels want Cosart to move to not “move off of second base”?
Neil Walker seems like an ideal candidate for the Angels. I wonder if the Blue Jays look for an upgrade from Devon Travis/Ryan Goins at second. Kinsler and Walker seem like fits there.
Angels need a leadoff guy. IMO Kinsler or Gordon would be my ideal scenario. Although Gordon would cost spects and not really a fan of that. So i guess Walker can leadoff??
Gordon probably wouldn’t cost a fortune in prospects since the Marlins SHOULD just be looking for someone to assume the rest of his contract. Gordon checks all the boxes the Angels are looking for in a 2B and should be their first priority. Walker is OK, but his durability is on the shaky side.
I hope the Angels do get Kinsler. He’ll be as good for them as ex-Rangers Hamilton and Wilson were.
I don’t know why the Angels would prefer a left handed hitter. They were significantly worse against left handed pitching last year.
Plus the first base market is filled with left handed hitters so if they do want a lefty in the lineup it makes more sense to add one there than narrow the list of potential 2B targets.
Because as it stands now, the Angels will enter the 2018 season with exactly one lefty in the lineup (2 if they platoon Valbuena). As the team will have 3x more PA facing righties than lefties, it might be a good idea to diversify the lineup a little and get a decent bat on the left side of the dish.
Put me in the camp of people who thinks handedness doesn’t really matter if you’re basically chalking most games against LHP as a loss.
You also have to consider, Cron can’t hit lefties. Espinoza is horrible vs lefties. Cowart can’t hit from the right side of the plate. And Valbuena barely hit over a 100 vs lefties. Maybin struggled vs lefties as well. It’s not about just adding a left handed hitter, it’s about finding a left handed hitter who can hit lefties. Moustakas Hosmore and CarGo all hit well vs lefties.
Put pretty much everyone in that camp, since no one is doing that.
Also worth noting, via bbref
Angels v LH Starter: .248/324/377 .701
Angels v RH Starter .240/.311/406 .717
For the most part, I agree. The stats just don’t have to be ghastly which they are not for the Angels. They were for the Diamondbacks which is why they got slaughtered against the Dodgers. All those LHP killed the Diamondbacks.
Yah but it’s way easier to find a right handed batter that can hit lefties than a left handed batter who can hit lefties well. Historically, Hosmer, Moustakas, and Gonzalez have not faired well against lefties
Yah but their overall OPS v. Lefties was .649 and their OPS against righties was .734 so that’s a pretty significant difference
and in 2016 it was .726 v. righties and .728 v. lefties., Still managed just 78 wins. The significant thing about those 2017 numbers is not the difference between them, but the fact that they remind us that the Angels were mostly bad at hitting in 2017.
I guess I just don’t follow how that would preclude an almost exlusively right-handed lineup from adding a solid lefty bat or two.
Espinoza couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat. Angels DFA’d him back in july for this reason. And Maybin was put on waivers after the Upton trade. Got a ring with Houston. Sign CarGo? Where you gonna play him? Angels are not in the market for outfielders. Already set with kole, upton and mikey
Cargo at first base. Need an upgrade at first base. Duda and Morrison are both platoon players. Need a stop gap, until Thais is ready. Cron should have been traded a long time ago.
Let’s not.
Any time considering a Rockies player, it’s necessary to look at the home/road splits to see how much Coors pads the stats. On the road the last three seasons, Gonzalez has barely been replacement level. Boras will tout him like he’s a force in the league, but reality says otherwise.
In addition, he’d have to learn 1B in order to play 1B. While not enormously difficult position to play, it can still be played poorly and that becomes a defensive liability.
I never said they shouldn’t pursue a Left handed bat. Just that it doesn’t make sense to limit their options at 2B when they should be targeting players who are good against LHP and when there’s a large amount of left handed free agent first basemen available.
Why is it that people only want to point out home road splits for Rockies players? Look at Delino DeShields Jr, his home road split is worse than CarGo’s. But I bet you would take him. Or Mookie Betts, almost all his power is at Fenway. But I bet you would take him. Cron if he played for the Roid Sox, he would put up great numbers at home. But would still be absolute garbage on the road. The Angels are looking for a stop gap to play first base. I would take CarGo over Morrison or Duda or even Cron and Valbuena every day of the week as that stop gap.
Why would you possibly want CarGo? He carried negative value last year despite the fact he played half his games at Coors. And, although it doesn’t matter if you platoon him, he had .561 OPS against same handed pitching which for some reason you cited as a strength for him…
I think most people look at splits for most players but you just hear more with regards to coors since there’s such an obvious and well-documented benefit to hitting there. As for CarGo, I think you’re just wrong on that. Ask pretty much anyone with a sliver of baseball knowledge and I’m sure they’d tell you it makes more sense to sign Duda, Morrison, etc. than attempt to teach an outfielder first base who is obviously declining and was worth negative value last year. The Angels need a two year stopgap at first (if everything goes right) and throwing a two year deal at CarGo would just be pure stupidity.
My point is. I’m tired of the platoon at first base. If the only choices are Duda or Morrison, they should just stick with Valbuena and Cron postponing at first base. Rather than spend money on more platoon players. Or trade for Belt.
If you’re sick of the platoon, why would you target Gonzalez? As I mentioned before, he had a .561 OPS against left handed pitching
Careful. You’re asking a logical question.
Gonzalez is as bad an idea for a 1B “solution” as can be found. He would have to platoon with a RH bat like Cron, except Boras will be working the GMs to get a starter’s salary.
He hasn’t played an inning in MLB at 1B, and while it isn’t as technical a position as the rest of the infield, there is still plenty to learn with positioning, footwork, covering other bases on certain plays, etc. You don’t just hand a player a first-baseman’s glove, send him out on the field, and expect success.
There will be no value in signing Gonzalez.
CarGo will be a guy who won’t be signed until January. I think you are over estimating teams interest in him. He should have signed the extension with the Rockies. With CarGo’s back and leg problems he has had in his career, moving to first base and signing a one year deal might be his best option. Look what it did for Napoli. And combined that with his down year. He won’t be getting many options. What I find funny is, if CarGo played for the Yankees and hit 300 and 20+ homers at home each season. But was average on the road. No one would even bring up his home road splits. And besides that, CarGo was already practicing playing first base last offseason. Because he was anticipating the Rockies moving him to first. Then the Rockies signed Desmond to play first base.
Well that’s just not true. Pretty much everyone knows the benefits left handed batters have at Yankee Stadium. And I think you just outlined more reasons the Angels should NOT sign Gonzalez. True, he probably won’t cost much but why should the Angels go dumpster diving when they’re trying to compete and have a decent amount of cash to spend?
Dont forget Solarte/Spangenberg as possible 2B candidates. There are so many quality players available and a limited number of vacancies. I like our chances of getting someone good for a relative bargain.
Same with 1B really. Eppler realizes the market is saturated at those two positions so he’s combing through to find the best value..Only so many positions open
Spangenberg to me is the best trade target. Moustakas for third base then Chatwood and two bullpen arms. Use what’s left, to fill first base. CarGo on a two year deal with an option for a third, might be a good steal.
Though Walker would be a great fit for The Angels, I feel like he will want to stay on The East Coast.
I think he’s going to go where the offers are. It isn’t anticipated there will be a huge demand for 2B in this off-season, and it isn’t as if Walker is coming off his first FA contract and $150M in earnings, giving him the ability to be selective. This will be probably his only shot at FA at 32 and he’ll go where the best contract is.
Villar would be a good option. He has speed, pop and has a good glove. He also might be cheap as he’s coming off a bad season.
Cron with a starter would most likely be enough.
Cron has no value in a trade. Zero. None.
He’s now to a point where he’s hit his arbitration years, and many teams would DFA him before paying 4th year arb salary for someone with the weak career stats he owns. He should be a much, much better hitter by now, which leads one to believe this is the best he’ll ever be.
Villar has about as much trade value as Cron does right now. And the Brewers really don’t have a place for him to play. The Brewers do need a first baseman. Cron has 3 years left of team control. It would make sense for both teams.
I have six years of team control. That doesn’t make me twice as attractive to a team as Cron.
All the amount of control regarding Cron doesn’t matter if he costs $4M-$6M and swings at pitches three feet off the plate.
BRIAN DOZIER… all caps. Get it done.
“… batting a ridiculous .297…”
‘Ridiculous?’
– Ted Williams
Ridiculous for his standards, and not Williams’ standards
Cozart stats for 2011-2016 is .246 / .289 /.385, so when he batted .297 / .385 / .548, you can see the “ridiculous”
Think about that. Mike Zunino hit a ‘ridiculous’ .205… That alone is ridiculous (pun intended).
Furthermore, can’t assume everyone reading knows Cozarts hitting history.
Wrong word used considering the context.
Kinsler is a solid leadoff man, has good splits, and developed a strong friendship with Upton when both were on the Tigers(adjoining lockers). Would solidify more team chemistry as both really want to win a ring. With only a one year deal, It leaves open more payroll for the FA class in 2018.
Kinsler ‘was’… His days are over from what we know him for.
As an angel fan, I would love to see mozart starting at 2B turning DP’s with simmons. His bat is also way above average and he seems like he would fit well into this lineup.