Reds outfielder Jesse Winker will have surgery on his right shoulder and miss the remainder of the season, tweets C. Trent Rosecrans of The Athletic. The 24-year-old was placed on the disabled list yesterday with a subluxation in that shoulder. President of baseball operations Dick Williams told reporters that Winker is expected to be ready for Spring Training (Twitter link via John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer).
Winker has yet to tally a full season’s worth of games in the big leagues, but he’s been terrific at the plate when healthy. Through 471 plate appearances, he’s raked at a .299/.397/.460 clip, slugging 14 homers along the way. Like teammate Joey Votto, Winker has a remarkably discerning eye in the batter’s box, as he walked more times in 2018 (49) than he struck out (46).
Certainly, the news is unwelcome for the organization and its fans. Winker is among the team’s more promising young players, even if his defensive ratings in the outfield corners have not been pretty to this point in his career. With Winker on the shelf, former first-round pick Phil Ervin is in line to get an extended look in right field. Given Winker’s strong showing at the plate, however, he’ll still have a long-term spot in the Cincinnati outfield waiting for him when he returns in 2019. He’s under club control through the 2023 season and won’t be arbitration-eligible until the 2020-21 offseason.
That changes things. Reds have been playing well, but have shown no depth. I wonder if they consider selling some pieces now that they previously might not have. Well I guess they’ll see if anyone steps up.
This shouldn’t changing anything for next year
Changes nothing. The Reds have been looking to sell, are looking to sell, and will be looking to sell. Their focus has been on 2019, and doing whatever helps their chances in 2019.
The Reds have had their problems, but a lack of depth certainly isn’t one of them. They’ve had 4 starting OFs, plus Phil Ervin now deserving a look. They have two starting-caliber 2Bs (Scooter Gennett and Dilson Herrera), who can’t both play 2b at once. And that’s with Nick Senzel out for the year.
After this injury the Reds can still trade 2-3 starting position players in the next week and have deserving MLB-ready players starting at all 8 positions.
No way, neither Ervin nor Herrera are ready for a starting job
Dilson Herrera is 24, a former top prospect, who’s now past his shoulder problems, and had a great year in AAA (.297 average, .367 OBP). He’s not a proven big leaguer, but he’s certainly ready for a chance to play everyday for the remainder of the season. There’s nothing left for him to prove in the minors, and he’s out of options so he can’t be sent down.
That is a more bold statement by me for Phil Ervin – he just turned 26, he’s been up and down this year. In his most recent stint in AAA he was on fire, now hitting .289 with a .373 OBP at that level this year – by far the best he’s hit at any level since injuring his wrist shortly after being drafted.. He recently rejoined the team, has played a little with Schebler and Winker being hurt, and has continued his hot hitting. If his performance in AAA is a sign of his development, then he has nothing left to prove down there, at all. All that’s left is to show what he can do in MLB.
What is Phil Ervin, though? He’s somebody who’s okay at everything, but unremarkable at everything. He’s got a good plate approach. He’ll hit some homeruns (12-14/year in minors, now headed to GABP). He’ll steal some bases (several 30+ seasons). He’ll play decent defense anywhere in the outfield. But he won’t get on base like Winker, field or steal bases like Hamilton, or hit homeruns like Duvall and Schebler. I think he’ll put up a respectable WAR by being so well rounded, if given a chance. But, the only way we’ll know is to see, let him play.
Both guys were written off by some a long time ago, but both are now deserving of a starting job to show what they can or can’t do. Both are ready for and deserving of the shot.
Ervin is more a 4th outfield guy. Can play all 3 spots. He’s worth a look to make sure that’s an accurate statement. But that’s the role I c him in. I think schebler will fetch a nice pitching prospect and they should try to sell Herrera. They need to keep Scooter. Might possibly sell Duvall as well.
With a healthy OF Ervin is the Reds 5th OF. That should tell you something. Herrera on the other hand is a whole different story. If he remains healthy he is a starting 2B on almost any team. He will get his shot here or somewhere else soon.
When I was talking about a lack of depth I meant depth that they could win with. Winker was batting fifth or sixth and helping to provide protection for the middle of the order. When Schebler was in the lineup he hit lead off and that shifted Peraza either the two hole with some combination of Votto, Gennett, and Suarez in the 3,4,&5 spots or Peraza was shifted to the bottom of the order and Barnhart batted second. I don’t see Ervin bringing that to the lineup. Also while Schebler has proven he can play a serviceable centerfield Ervin has not. In my opinion a lack of winning depth. I hope I’m wrong.
Winkers has a .836 ops and a 0.0 WAR. Is his defensive metrics that bad or is WAR not justifying his value correctly?
def metrics say a lawn chair with a glove taped to it would be better
War is not justifying his value. He was a on a roll. And while he may have a 0.0, he was improving from a bad start to the year. His defense isnt bad at all either. Given a full season, and one where the Reds aren’t swapping outfielders in and out all the time, that war is much better.
I’m curious what playing next to Billy did to defensive value. Jesse isn’t particularly good out there but Billy’s range is so big that he gets to many that corner outfielders could ostensibly reach. I just can’t believe that his offense is COMPLETELY negated by his glove
Brixton….loved that comment.
Yeah, best comment of the day
Can you do better , I bet you sit around doing nothing dum ass
Fantastic. Lawn chair with a glove, love it.
Jesse Winker is a bat-first player, his great hitting largely offset by his fielding and baserunning. Hopefully using him exclusively in LF – rather than splitting time between LF and RF – will eventually help his defense a bit.
Can one of the top OBP guys in the league be considered replacement level? Interesting question.
He’s basically the opposite of teammate Billy Hamilton, who posts a respectable WAR each year due primarily to baserunning and defense. Hamilton critics typically argue that hitting matters while baserunning and defense don’t, so it’s funny to see Winker represent the extreme opposite end of the argument.
What OF spot have they been playing him at?
47 games in RF and 34 in LF
Left and right.
Four outfielders have split playing time pretty evenly, outside of DL stints:
-Duvall ONLY plays LF (and some occasional 1b), since he’s arguably a Gold Glove caliber fielder there.
-Hamilton has played exclusively CF, since he’s definitely Gold Glove caliber there.
-Schebler has played primarily RF, where he has great range, and some CF
-Winker, as arguably the slowest runner and having the worst arm, has played whichever corner is open that night. There’s the old saying, if you hit they’ll find a place for you to play.
This reminds me of Austin Kearns and Ray King, and all his glory, falling on his shoulder.
Winker is Sean Casey in the outfield…