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Orioles Face Uncertainty On International Market

By TC Zencka and Steve Adams | October 23, 2018 at 10:26pm CDT

Most international prospects sign on, or soon after, July 2 — the beginning of the yearly international spending period. Those teams with money still to spend this time of year are left with a more limited pool of talent from which to draw, though a trio of interesting prospects emerged last month. The Miami Marlins made a splash by locking up top Cuban prospect Victor Victor Mesa and his younger brother Victor Mesa Jr. Earlier today, the Tampa Bay Rays reportedly committed $2.6MM to sign Cuban right-hander Sandy Gaston.

Teams have until June 15th to spend their remaining international bonus pool money. But with that trio joining a host of other well-regarded youngsters with MLB organizations, the cupboard is increasingly bare. 

The situation that remains is quite an interesting one for the Baltimore Orioles, who have far and away the most spending capacity remaining under the current international rules. The O’s can spend around $6.5MM on prospects, having only inked a pair of international youngsters to this point. There are still plenty of players available, to be sure, but the reputed top prospects are off the board. And it’s fair to wonder why none of them ended up in Baltimore.

Granted, we don’t quite know Baltimore’s strategy for wooing these top prospects — or even if they had one, given the organization’s recent shift to begin spending internationally after years of foregoing the market. We know they sent representatives to the showcase for the three Cuban stars earlier this month, but MLB.com’s Brittany Ghiroli observes that without a general manager or international scouting director currently in place, the Orioles lagged behind teams like the Rays and Marlins in developing relationships on the international front. Presumably, other organizations were also able to highlight other player-friendly features of their systems that the O’s simply do not currently have. No doubt, the Florida clubs also had something of a geographic advantage as well given the notable Cuban-American communities in that portion of the country.

It’s a tad ironic to say to Baltimore, a team long mired behind their big-spending rivals in Boston and New York, that money won’t buy the top players in the market. But the fact remains that, in this case, the O’s had the ability to outspend just about anyone on the market, only to find that said financial firepower just wasn’t enough.

The Baltimore Sun’s Jon Meoli points out that, in and of itself, losing out to a team with deep Cuban roots who spent the last month accumulating enough pool money to compete with Baltimore’s league-leading sum doesn’t even rank on the scale of the organization’s recent disappointments. Still, the Orioles’ longstanding failures and disinterest in developing Latin American players suggests a deleterious operating procedure that’s becoming an unfortunate trademark of the organization.

Conversely, it’s not as if the more than $6MM the Orioles have in international pool money is free money. As The Athletic’s Dan Connolly rightly notes, it’s not outside funding; it’s merely a spending cap as opposed to actual money. What they really lost was an opportunity to exploit a market advantage. It’s no accident that MLB teams routinely empty their spending allocation. Indeed, it used to be common for clubs to blow past their limits for a given season, incurring massive overage penalties and future signing restrictions. (That approach is no longer permitted under the hard-cap system of the current rules regime.)

What’s most confounding about this saga is that Baltimore’s pool of money wasn’t available to them by happenstance: they traded for much of it. The Orioles first shipped reliever Brad Brach to Atlanta for pool money ($250k), then dealt Kevin Gausman and Darren O’Day to Atlanta in a separate deal — this time for an uninspiring prospect bundle that was theoretically headlined by the whopping sum of pool money ($2.5MM) they also received. Shedding O’Day’s hefty $10MM commitment was unquestionably also a key goal, but that is a rather thin justification for parting with a controllable, youthful pitcher of Gausman’s talent level.

Ghiroli, Meoli and Connolly all touched on a similar sentiment: the optics here are bad for Baltimore, at a minimum. Casting final judgment on the Orioles’ use of their international pool money, at this stage, is premature. The international signing period is not yet done, and the O’s may, theoretically, still have a plan. But in a year when they lost 115 games, bid adieu to their franchise player, and oversaw massive organizational upheaval, the Orioles sure needed a win, and the international market seemed like the place to get it. Now, that avenue carries far less certainty.

Taiwanese slugger Wang Po-Jung will reportedly be posted for MLB teams, though despite his otherworldly production in the Chinese Professional Baseball League, there’s not much reason to think he’s the sort of player that would headline an international class. Perhaps there will be a bonus-restricted amateur unexpectedly posted from Nippon Professional Baseball or the Korea Baseball Organization who gives the Orioles a mulligan to take advantage of their financial firepower, but right now it seems hard to envision them capitalizing on their considerable bonus pool.

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2018-19 International Prospects Baltimore Orioles

NL Notes: Schoop, Escobar, Diamondbacks, Kang, Pirates
Main
Offseason Outlook: Los Angeles Angels
View Comments (83)
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83 Comments

  1. CursedRangers

    7 years ago

    Title should be: Orioles face uncertainty in the international market, free agency, the minor leagues, the major leagues, the front office, the ownership, management, scouting, and analytics.

    19
    Reply
    • j0v10098

      7 years ago

      CTL+ALT+DEL

      6
      Reply
      • JKB 2

        7 years ago

        Haha good one!

        Reply
    • JKB 2

      7 years ago

      What a mess

      Reply
    • bravesfan88

      7 years ago

      You could have just left it with Orioles face uncertainty…Everyone knows what kind of clusterfack this organization has turned into.

      Regardless how much international money they have, none of the premium proses wants to sign with the Orioles. I cannot help but to feel bad for the Orioles, absolutely no one wants to take the dive into that cesspool!!

      Reply
    • HubcapDiamondStarHalo

      7 years ago

      However, everything else is fine.

      1
      Reply
  2. Senioreditor

    7 years ago

    A team without a plan……..and it continues.

    1
    Reply
    • MetsYankeesRedSox

      7 years ago

      Sorry, thought this was a Mets story

      1
      Reply
      • dugmet

        7 years ago

        Why? Mets have signed many well-regarded international prospects.

        1
        Reply
  3. stevewpants

    7 years ago

    Year 2022, maybe 2027: Introducing the Las Vegas Orioles! You heard it here first.

    Reply
    • brooksnumber5is1

      7 years ago

      Bad management should not be a reason to move. And there are plenty of other towns that don’t support successful organizations.

      3
      Reply
      • stevewpants

        7 years ago

        Just don’t trust the younger angeloseses

        2
        Reply
    • tonypro7

      7 years ago

      If the Orioles moved there would be another MLB team in Camden Yards in about 6-8 minutes. Rays, A’s, DBacks would be clawing at the chance to call OPACY their home.

      2
      Reply
      • joeflaccosunibrow

        7 years ago

        Agreed. William Donald Schaefer set up the Maryland Stadium Authority to make sure we never lose another team again. The O’s and Ravens have the sweetest rent deals in their respective sport.

        Add a winner to each stadium and sellouts will occur.

        4
        Reply
      • its_happening

        7 years ago

        Take the DBacks out. They wouldn’t go to a city where it’s a step back.

        Baltimore needs to clean up the city and straighten up. There is a reason why they don’t attend games anymore, and they weren’t attending when the O’s were contending a couple years ago.

        Reply
        • WolandJR

          7 years ago

          And the reason is…?

          1
          Reply
        • bucketbrew35

          7 years ago

          “Baltimore needs to clean up the city and straighten up. There is a reason why they don’t attend games anymore, and they weren’t attending when the O’s were contending a couple years ago.”

          Baltimore as a city has work to do, but as far as team support goes that is an absolutely 100% FALSE claim. I worked in Baltimore during the Orioles last competitive stretch and Camden Yards was ALWAYS packed and social media was always buzzing about the orioles and locals attending the games. The city supports their teams and it has nothing to do with the city’s current situation.

          The city undoubtedly has crime and poverty issues. But even when I worked in the city while the riots were occurring, the Inner Harbor and the stadium areas were unaffected. If anything I felt safer because I worked next to M&T Bank Stadium.

          3
          Reply
        • ln13

          7 years ago

          The initial unrest of that horrible week occurred Saturday night right outside of Camden Yards on Howard Street. They even made made an announcement, asking people to stay in the stadium until things chilled out. It was all right there on live TV for all to see. Granted, the Tuesday violence was mostly further uptown.

          Reply
        • Jbigz12

          7 years ago

          I feel perfectly safe at Camden yards. I’d just rather not go watch a 45 win team. It has its rough parts like anywhere else but I don’t think anyone feels threatened if they stay close to the stadiums or harbor. If you start walking north into the inner city you might Start feeling that way, but there’s no reason anyone should be doing that. Tell me if that’s any different than watching a game in the Bronx at yankee stadium? Walk a few minutes in the wrong direction there and it’s same exact thing.

          3
          Reply
        • lmcpeeks

          7 years ago

          Guys, I’m an O’s partial season ticket holder who was at that game. I can assure you the reports were overblown. The O’s did the right thing keeping everyone in but it wasn’t like 1000’s of people were rioting right outside the stadium. I live in VA not in Baltimore and agree the city has its rough spots but that has nothing to do with attendance. I attend a minimum 20 games a year and when they are winning it’s filled with O’s fans when they aren’t they arent. That’s pretty normal outside of Boston or NY no? What was Houston’s attendance like when they were losing 100+ games.
          Finally, while I wholeheartedly agree the Angeloses have poorly run the team but the stadium and stadium experience is top notch. I’ve been to plenty of stadiums.

          2
          Reply
        • its_happening

          7 years ago

          Since 2005, the Orioles have only broken 30,000 attendance average once. Since 2005 they have only been above league average twice in attendance. O’s were contending between 2012-2016 every season. That’s 5 years.

          Stop the bullcrap. They do not support their team as much as you all think they do. I’m sure if the city was safer/better they would garner more support.

          Don’t use the Nationals excuse. Not going to fly. The Nats would also nullify the guy that said another franchise would step in if the O’s left.

          Reply
        • aceofrainbows

          7 years ago

          Giants as well, they had the longest sellout streak in MLB history, which lasted until 2018 I believe, and continued throughout last year’s 98 loss team.

          1
          Reply
        • Jbigz12

          7 years ago

          Maybe if more people lived in the city. When the team is good we pull in the same amount the nationals do. That’s about all you get in this area. We don’t have millions of people living in the city like NY or Boston. It’s not NY or Boston. It’s safe to come here and watch a game but the people who would do that mostly live in the surrounding counties. We don’t have the demographics that Boston or NY or SF has. We’re not going to be a top attendance city. Not everyone can draw like that.

          Reply
        • ln13

          7 years ago

          Baltimore City population ~617,000
          Boston population ~685,000
          San Francisco population ~884,000

          There are not “millions” of people living in Boston.

          Reply
        • davedsg

          7 years ago

          When you have 14 straight losing seasons you lose an entire generation of fans. And the Nationals moving to DC didn’t help things either.

          Reply
        • camdenyards46

          7 years ago

          I live here, people were definitely packing the park during the contending days. And there is crime, but the neighborhood around the stadiums is pretty safe.

          1
          Reply
      • Adam6710

        7 years ago

        Good. Maybe what Baltimore needs is a new team.

        Reply
    • Phillies2017

      7 years ago

      Tampa had 900 people attend a game last year

      2
      Reply
    • hiflew

      7 years ago

      Why is everyone obsessed with being first? You aren’t getting a prize in 2022 if the Oriole actually DO move to Las Vegas, so what is the point of saying you heard it here first?

      1
      Reply
      • Mattimeo09

        7 years ago

        Yeah if they move to Las Vegas in 2022, I’m not going to stop whatever I’m doing and say “That random commenter 4 years ago in a article about Baltimore’s spending habits was right!!!”

        Reply
    • camdenyards46

      7 years ago

      Definitely not, we have a great park, and the fans just aren’t coming because the team is bad.

      1
      Reply
  4. angelsinthetroutfield

    7 years ago

    This can’t be used for Kikuchi right? Only amateur players?

    1
    Reply
    • davidcoonce74

      7 years ago

      Correct. Kikuchi is, essentially, a free agent.

      1
      Reply
  5. brooksnumber5is1

    7 years ago

    I just want to go back to all the comments at the time of the trades and at the beginning of the year. The Oriole apologists kept saying that we were contenders and these were great deals. Ugggh. It’s worse than we realists thought.

    Reply
  6. Joeypower

    7 years ago

    What a mess in that organization.

    Reply
  7. diddlez

    7 years ago

    It’s clear why they didnt sign with baltimore. Why sign with a third world city when you just came from a third world country?

    7
    Reply
    • Yeti

      7 years ago

      Foolish.

      Reply
    • davidcoonce74

      7 years ago

      Third world country? American doctors go to Cuba to learn how their health system works so well for their citizens; Cuba’s life expectancy is higher than the United States’ life expectancy.

      2
      Reply
      • JoeyPankake

        7 years ago

        And yet Cubans are willing to risk their lives floating across the ocean on homemade rafts to escape their country to come here…

        9
        Reply
        • johnrealtime

          7 years ago

          They come because of “the american dream”. Doesn’t make where they come from 3rd world

          2
          Reply
        • Jbigz12

          7 years ago

          You mean to tell me they risk all that wonderful “free”healthcare they get in Cuba??!!?

          6
          Reply
        • its_happening

          7 years ago

          Sign me up! Why shorten my life when I can live longer in Cuba! Wow. Who’d ever want to leave???

          Get real Starbucks fan….

          1
          Reply
        • davidcoonce74

          7 years ago

          Starbucks fan? That’s a new one to me. I’ve been to a Starbucks before, but I’d hardly call myself a fan. I am a fan of the Padres and Rickey Henderson but I don’t know how those relate to Starbucks.

          2
          Reply
        • Polish Hammer

          7 years ago

          Joeypankake, people risk their lives every day fleeing countries like Mexico, yet those same American doctors are going there and spending $1000s to vacation…what’s your point?

          1
          Reply
        • FaithlessValor 2

          7 years ago

          He’s referring to your avatar

          5
          Reply
        • davidcoonce74

          7 years ago

          Maybe he should look at it more closely, then; it is a cheesy thing a band co-opted from Starbucks that I use so I can find my posts more easily. Nothing more. I’ve maybe been to starbucks twice in the last year.

          1
          Reply
        • Adam6710

          7 years ago

          Yes. An awful, awful band with some of the most people fronting it. That’s much better than showing your love of Starbucks.

          Reply
        • davidcoonce74

          7 years ago

          The original Misfits (the 1979-83 version) are a great band. The people in the band are probably awful people, yes.

          Reply
    • adamontheshore

      7 years ago

      Technically speaking, Cuba is a communist country, so according to the first world, second world, third world (absurd) rankings they would be second world. Facts are important.

      3
      Reply
      • diddlez

        7 years ago

        if you’re not first you’re third

        5
        Reply
      • davidcoonce74

        7 years ago

        Actually, they aren’t really a communist country; communism, as described by the person who came up with the concept, requires that there is no “president” or central leader at all. The government is supposed to be collective, without a single figurehead/dictator/leader. No country has ever managed to pull that off. But this has nothing to do with baseball, I know.

        2
        Reply
        • bucketbrew35

          7 years ago

          “Actually, they aren’t really a communist country; communism, as described by the person who came up with the concept, requires that there is no “president” or central leader at all. The government is supposed to be collective, without a single figurehead/dictator/leader. No country has ever managed to pull that off. But this has nothing to do with baseball, I know.”

          That Fidel Castro SURE was a champion for human rights (roll eyes).

          1
          Reply
        • davidcoonce74

          7 years ago

          Exactly; Castro was not remotely a “communist.” He was a dictator. Cuba was never a communist country.

          2
          Reply
        • lesterdnightfly

          7 years ago

          Stop for your own sake, David. What you are writing requires people to think without bias or prejudice. Alas, that won’t fly here.

          1
          Reply
        • bucketbrew35

          7 years ago

          “Stop for your own sake, David. What you are writing requires people to think without bias or prejudice. Alas, that won’t fly here.”

          Castro was a horribly corrupt dictator who committed countless human rights atrocities and was responsible for the deaths of anywhere from 30k to 50k people.

          Cuba is a socialist country who did not have a constitution during the entirety of Castro’s reign. And overall the country is in horrible shape.

          I ask you what more there is really more to say or think about?

          There’s an entire generation in this country with socialist leanings that brand this monster as some kind of hero. There is nothing “open minded” about being a socialist sympathizer.

          Reply
  8. jb19

    7 years ago

    So no one in the World wants to play for the Orioles.

    3
    Reply
    • Polish Hammer

      7 years ago

      Years ago the Orioles played down there, so they should have already had an ‘in’ with youngsters growing up wanting to be an O just like foreigners knew of the Yankees.

      1
      Reply
      • ln13

        7 years ago

        That was 19 years ago. Victor Victor Mesa was three years old. His bother and Sandy Gaston weren’t even twinkles in their parents’ eyes.

        Reply
        • Polish Hammer

          7 years ago

          But t they all know who the Yankees are who haven’t played there anytime in the recent past.

          Reply
  9. Vizionaire

    7 years ago

    i heard there is a bigfoot somewhere in bhutan that thows 200mph!

    Reply
  10. bobtillman

    7 years ago

    So it wasn’t lack of money and cap space, just more likely their lack of any definable presence in the area. Teams like the Dodgers, Padres, Rays have all kinds of influences there; doubtful the Mesas of Garcon even knew who the O’s were. Not saying it’s impossible, but it’s tough to all of a sudden swoop in and get preference over scouts the players’ have likely known for a while.

    Well they can go the other route, just sign all the sub-300K guys down there. There’s been enough success stories with those guys to make it at least interesting. Better than sitting on cap space. And you at least BEGIN to establish some relationships and show the trainers you’re serious.

    5
    Reply
    • Monkey’s Uncle

      7 years ago

      Exactly. So much of this is about relationships and trust. It was a bit foolish if the Orioles thought that, after years of refusing to have anything to do with the international market, they would just walk in and throw money around and that the top talent wouldcome running. So, they need now to at least start somewhere, to sign someone, to make some connections for future years.

      1
      Reply
      • Jbigz12

        7 years ago

        I’ll buy us not having a relationship being a huge factor but we could have offered Gaston double the money. Relationships or not those dollars would’ve talked

        1
        Reply
        • ln13

          7 years ago

          Except his agent probably knows full well of the Orioles’ reputation for ruining pitchers, and guided his client toward the organization that would provide him a longer career.

          2
          Reply
  11. Phillies2017

    7 years ago

    If I’m being real, I can’t think of anything less appealing for these players who can pick where they want to sign than signing with a relatively small city, vastly overshadowed by a pair of teams in the division, no resources in place or Latino players based on a lack of history in international signings, a weak farm system, no general manager or plan or that matter who is coming off of a 114 loss season.
    No disrespect to Baltimore as a city, as its my favorite city in America not called Philadelphia but when you’re competing for Cuban players against 2 teams from Florida with significantly more promise and experience working with Latin American countries, you have to understand that your chances are small. Especially as spending is capped limiting how much you can really do. In other words, you need a back up plan that doesn’t consist of paying international bonus money for non-prospects because it didn’t work out. It’ll be interesting to see how they proceed.

    6
    Reply
  12. greatdaysport

    7 years ago

    There should be an international draft with a bonus ceiling. But, unlike the regular draft, teams would be able to trade their pick for players (not$) and or draft picks in the same draft.

    Reply
  13. Palmerpark

    7 years ago

    Baltimore situation pretty bad to say the least – if it’s possible I trade international money for multiple draft picks and do that with anything tradable – stockpile picks and replenish to build from ground up. Foolish to sign any free agents of course at this time since your in such a mess talent wise… pull Astros rebuild mode – tell your fans straight up like they did and just do it. Bring in young mgr and hire best GM available to travel through that road to rebuild.

    Reply
    • davidcoonce74

      7 years ago

      Unfortunately in baseball teams can’t trade draft picks; it seems odd that it still operates in this way, but it’s the way it is.

      1
      Reply
      • Polish Hammer

        7 years ago

        Ironically they did that to prevent teams from trading all their picks and washing out relegating them to a rebuild for years. Yet the Astros just proved that tanking works. They should allow teams to start trading picks.

        Reply
        • hiflew

          7 years ago

          Just because it works doesn’t make it right. Cheating works, but that doesn’t mean everyone should do it because someone got away with it.

          1
          Reply
        • batty

          7 years ago

          Yes, the Astros are a success story in tanking. But it doesn’t and won’t always work, for a few reasons.

          Scouting, both domestically and internationally have to be on a superior level and the O’s haven’t shown that ability for some time now.

          Owners need to be willing to take monetary losses for 3+ years. Owners have to learn to be creative during these years to supplement the books and they haven’t shown they can be.

          Owners have to agree on a clear direction for the future. According to reports, they are divided between old school and analytics.

          Then there is the luck factor. A team has to be lucky to hit on a high percentage of draft picks, international signings and free agency signings. Luck is the one thing that can’t be controlled.

          The Astros had everything in place and enjoyed a sizable amount of luck.

          It also didn’t hurt the Astros being in the division they are, as opposed to the division the O’s play in.

          Reply
  14. hiflew

    7 years ago

    The Orioles system needs overhauling, of that there is no doubt. But what needs a bigger overhauling is the entire international market. When you have thing like two brothers at the top of the prospect list, it’s obvious they are going to the same team. That needs to change.

    As an extreme example, If you have triplets playing for a high school team and one is rated #1 and the other #14 and the third #22, it is almost impossible that a single team can get all three of them due to the inherent fairness of the draft. However in the international market, a team can easily sign all three. Even the money cap is meaningless because it’s very possible for the #1 guy to take less in order to keep his brothers on the team with him.

    We need to start having international drafts. Maybe not like the regular draft, but something akin to the Rule 5 draft where teams can elect to pass if they chose. And maybe just have a 2-3 rounds and then everyone else eligible can sign with whomever. At least that way the top prospects will be spread out a little more. Parity is the goal and when you have an organization as comically bad on the international market as the Orioles, it is obvious that parity is not being achieved by the current method.

    1
    Reply
    • Jbigz12

      7 years ago

      Everyone has the same bonus pool at the beginning of the offseason. The orioles have chosen to put themself in this hole. They shouldn’t be used as an example of why teams need to be bailed out by the MLB in the international market. If VV Mesa and Mesa Jr were of the same caliber as prospects they wouldn’t be going to the same team because they would each command a 5 MM bonus and no one has that allotment.

      2
      Reply
      • hiflew

        7 years ago

        I never said they were of the same caliber. The point was if the #1 guy goes somewhere, it would be easier to get the #14 guy or the #21 guy if they are related.

        Besides, I guarantee you that if they were equal, they would each take $2.5 million if they wanted to stick together.

        Reply
      • ln13

        7 years ago

        Everyone does not have the same bonus pool.
        baseballamerica.com/stories/2018-19-mlb-internatio…

        1
        Reply
    • jdgoat

      7 years ago

      The Gurriels went to different teams. I’m sure there’s other examples but they’re more high profile than the Mesa’s.

      Reply
      • tharrie0820

        7 years ago

        Only one of the Gurriels was an amatuer free agent though

        Reply
  15. jakec77

    7 years ago

    O’s can still do a lot of (potential) good with that money. The “big” names may be gone, but there are still plenty of 16+ year olds in the world who aren’t signed. Since seemingly the O’s don’t yet have an international scouting department up and running, maybe the better course is to take the $6 million and give $200k to 30 kids in the hope that one or two pan out.

    Or, maybe the plan is to trade the bonus room money for players who are otherwise going to be in the Rule 5 draft?

    Reply
  16. bucketbrew35

    7 years ago

    #tirefire

    1
    Reply
  17. to4

    7 years ago

    Victor Mesa, Victor Mesa Jr., Anderson, Lewis might become a nice quartet for the Marlins in the long run.

    I’ve seen the father of the Mesa brothers play live since I was a 5 ye old kid and much like the father of the Gourriel brothers, Victor Mesa Sr was a Stud at the plate and in CF as well.

    1
    Reply
  18. to4

    7 years ago

    1.Victor Mesa Sr. CF
    2.Ermiledio Urrutia LF
    3.Antonio Pacheco 2B
    4.Omar Linares 3B
    5.Orestes Kindelan 1B
    6.Lourdes Gourriel Sr. DH
    7.Romelio Martinez RF
    8.Juan Manrique C
    9.German Mesa SS

    I could only remember that line up. That was the massive unstoppable that got my country, Cuba, many titles. or at least something close enough to that.

    2
    Reply
  19. lesterdnightfly

    7 years ago

    Orioles’ fans don’t show up for one simple reason. They can’t pass the physical….

    Reply
  20. tallyosfan

    7 years ago

    Leave it to the Os to get intl money and not spend it

    Reply

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