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The Cardinals had a thrilling season on the whole, but a tumultuous roller coaster ride bookended by significant winning and losing streaks ultimately ended on a low note as they missed the playoffs for the third consecutive season. That’s a lengthy drought by their standards, as fans hadn’t yet been forced to endure such a streak during the new millenium.
On the one hand, the club has a formidable crew under team control for 2019, including several franchise mainstays, and can expect a reasonable degree of improvement from its wealth of young talent. On the other hand, its veteran core includes eight players over 30 years of age (six are at least 32), and they could be facing some decline in production and/or injury risk from many members of that group. The club’s front office will surely be taking a slew of complex factors into account as they try to put together a contender for 2019.
Guaranteed Contracts
- Yadier Molina, C: $40MM through 2020
- Dexter Fowler, OF: $49.5MM through 2021
- Matt Carpenter, INF: $14.75MM through 2019, plus $2MM buyout on $18.5MM option for 2020
- Jedd Gyorko, INF: $13MM through 2019, plus $1MM buyout on $13MM option for 2020
- Carlos Martinez, SP: $34.5MM through 2021, plus $500K buyout on $17MM option for 2022
- Miles Mikolas, SP: $8MM through 2019
- Brett Cecil, RP: $15MM through 2020
- Kolten Wong, 2B: $16.75MM through 2020, plus $1MM buyout on $12.5MM option for 2021
- Luke Gregerson, RP: $5MM through 2019, plus $1MM buyout on $6MM vesting option for 2020
- Adam Wainwright, SP: $2MM through 2019
- Paul DeJong, SS: $22MM through 2023, plus $2MM buyout on $12.5MM option for 2024
Arbitration-Eligible Players (projections via MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz)
- Marcell Ozuna (5.124) – $13.4MM
- Michael Wacha (5.062) – $6.6MM
- Dominic Leone (3.123) – $1.3MM
- Chasen Shreve (3.167) – $1.2MM
Free Agents
[St. Louis Cardinals Depth Chart |St. Louis Cardinals Payroll Outlook]
Even after a relatively quiet trade deadline, the Cardinals surged to the forefront of the NL Central race with a torrid August that saw them go 22-6. But a mediocre 12-15 September cost them a chance to compete in the 2018 playoffs, proving that even the surprising midseason replacement of longtime manager Mike Matheny wasn’t enough to flip the club’s fate after a middling 47-46 start to the season. After three consecutive years of seeing their season end with game number 162, the perennially successful Cardinals organization could be facing a sense of urgency to right the ship and get back to October in order to satiate the fan base.
It’s difficult to tell where that process begins. While the team is loaded with fan favorites and high-caliber players in every area of the roster, they’re also staring down one or more significant question marks in their rotation, bullpen, outfield and infield. With their current construction, they’ve got an obviously good team. Unfortunately that’s not likely to cut the mustard in a division where they’re likely to face stiff competition from the Cubs and the now-soaring Brewers, both of whom have younger cores.
One of the simplest avenues would be to add several wins in one fell swoop, by paying for one of the market’s elite talents. The Cardinals have been connected to Bryce Harper this offseason, and have been speculated upon as a potential landing spot for Manny Machado as well. Either would fit easily into the club’s puzzle, and it wouldn’t be a surprise to see them spend big on a marquee free agent after being putting in strong bids for Jason Heyward and David Price in offseasons past. It’s also worth pointing out that they worked out a deal to acquire Giancarlo Stanton last season before the slugger used his no-trade clause to veto the move to St. Louis. While any realistic offer to add one of the market’s two biggest prizes would surely dwarf any of the three aforementioned contract sums, the Redbirds’ involvement serves as an indicator that adding a superstar bat lies within the realm of possibility.
But the market for both Harper and Machado comes with strong competition, so we can easily assume that the Cards are exploring several contingency plans. For example, the club will likely be motivated to make an upgrade at the hot corner if Machado lands elsewhere. Carpenter is aging and probably profiles best at first base at this point in his career, and Josh Donaldson might be a fitting target after previous reports of interest from St. Louis. Even Mike Moustakas could serve as an interesting add. It’s also worth noting that the Yankees could explore the market for Rookie of the Year runner-up Miguel Andujar in order to address their rotation, though it’s questionable whether the Cards would have any interest in giving up the type of young arm necessary to get a deal done. (Last night’s trade of James Paxton to the Yankees could also shift New York’s focus from the trade market to free agency for their remaining rotation needs.)
Turning an eye to the outfield, St. Louis may have in-house alternatives to signing Harper, should they lose out in that auction. Rookie Harrison Bader certainly earned a foothold on the center field job, and Ozuna is a lock to hold down left field. While Harper’s presence in right would make for a formidable outfield alignment, Fowler probably can’t be counted out as dead weight after a single horrendous season. Beyond him, the club has former top prospect Tyler O’Neill champing at the bit to follow up on a promising debut.
Absent from that list of in-house options is slugger Jose Martinez, who had an excellent offensive showing but proved to be an outright defensive liability. With that in mind, it seems unlikely he’ll be a part of their outfield plans come springtime (though the possibility shouldn’t be entirely dismissed, either), and his performance at first base even begs questions about whether his glove can be relied upon at all. Overall, the returns on playing him were positive; he yielded an above-average fWAR figure thanks to his excellent contact and on-base skills coupled with above-average power. But if the Cardinals wanted to get creative, they could look to explore shopping the slugger to American League team that might value him a bit more highly thanks to the ability to protect him from being entirely exposed defensively. There’d certainly be a number of suitors.
The bullpen is perhaps the Cardinals’ most glaring area of concern. A number of statistical shortcomings (including the second-highest walk rate of any ’pen in the game) led to a -4.54 WPA figure that would have stood as the worst in all of baseball save for the disastrous showing by a largely inexperienced Marlins relief corps. Norris, who held down the closer role for most of the season and was their bullpen’s most consistent fixture, is set to depart as a free agent. If they don’t re-sign him, they’ll probably find it necessary to find at least one viable alternative on the free agent market.
Make no mistake, that doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll be desperate to find anyone with closer experience. President of baseball ops John Mozeliak has said the Cardinals believe flamethrowing righty Jordan Hicks could succeed in that role (though as always that could simply be a negotiating technique), but that doesn’t mean he’ll actually have the job on opening day. The market is littered with former closers (e.g. Craig Kimbrel, Cody Allen, Kelvin Herrera), but it’s not difficult to imagine them instead rolling with Hicks and adding an upside lefty like Andrew Miller or Zach Britton. Speculation on specific names aside, it seems inevitable that the bullpen is an area to which they’ll allocate at least some money.
It’s worth noting that St. Louis will almost inevitably see some positive regression in relief performance, too. It’s more likely that Brett Cecil will rebound somewhat than that he’ll endure another career-low performance. Likewise, it’s improbable that the usually-durable Luke Gregerson will spend such an excessive amount of time on the DL. They won’t have Greg Holland walking nearly eight batters per nine innings across half a season’s worth of work, while Sam Tuivailala and Tyler Lyons represent other possible instances of addition by subtraction. Meanwhile John Brebbia, Dominic Leone and Dakota Hudson all had encouraging showings. In other words, while the Cardinals have some work to do in order to cover high-leverage innings, their situation isn’t quite as eyebrow-raising as a team like the Indians, for example.
Martinez, Wacha, Mikolas and rookie sensation Jack Flaherty seem like good bets to return to the rotation for 2019, while Alex Reyes, Luke Weaver and Adam Wainwright all in the mix for starts as well depending on health and performance. There’s room for improvement in their rotation, but it’s also not a bad cast overall; certainly other contenders are facing more daunting rotation questions. The situation gets murkier beyond 2019, though, as the contracts of Wacha, Mikolas and Wainwright all expire at season’s end. For that reason, we could see the Redbirds check in on free agents or trade targets whom they could keep in the fold for multiple seasons beyond the next. There’s no real urgency to do so, but there could easily be motivation given the right price and player.
The Cardinals are also an organization known for locking up many of their young players pre-arbitration, and this spring could present many opportunities to do just that. A wave of young players impressed last season, and the ever-opportunistic Cardinals brass could look to capitalize on the chance on some early extensions. Flaherty, Hicks, Bader and O’Neill could represent a strong core for years to come, and gaining additional control and cost-certainty over some of that group could allow the Cardinals to feel secure as some of their older veterans depart or retire in the near future.
Whatever path the Cardinals take this offseason, it seems unlikely to be a quiet one. With motivation to end an unusually long playoff drought, the organization will want to set new manager Mike Shildt up for success. They’ve got money to spend, a reasonable amount of prospect capital, and just enough positional flexibility on the roster to allow them to fit the right player into the picture if the opportunity arises. That should present a comfortable cavalcade of potential strategies to one simple end: add enough wins to remain competitive with a pair of formidable divisional opponents.
With the Mariners seemingly cutting costs all over the place, Martinez would fit in well as a DH who occasionally plays a poor 1B. I’m just not sure what Seattle has to offer that St. Louis would be interested in. Maybe Colome and some cash?
I guess I am one of the lone supporters of Jose Martinez. He is the leading hitter on the team and, in my view, is wrongly accused incessantly of being weak defensively. The stats just don’t show that. He was a newbie to 1B and Jose Oquendo was working with him every day. He was improving yet takes a hit for a few errors but much fewer than the team superstar, Matt Carpenter who booked 16 errors on the season and barely made it to .270. Every fan says the Cards need a big bat so why trade a big bat away? Jose played 10 years in the minors and had some major leg injuries which shortened his playing time but he is an adequate RF – about as good as Holliday was in LF. He is taking a bad knock and I hope he stays with the team. He is a joy to watch for folks at our house.
No one measures defensive performance by errors for a reason. Jose doesn’t get to nearly as many balls as other players (because of poor range/positioning/dexterity) and therefore doesn’t make as many errors as other players.
Also, Matt Carpenter was still the better hitter, if you look at their entire slash line.
But I agree that Jose is fun to watch and still valuable to the team, if used properly. The real question is, does he have MORE value to other teams (in the AL), and if so, can we capitalize on that extra value to bring in a more useful piece for 2019?
Oh, we need to move him. And to the AL. But whom? Cleveland has pitching available, but Encarnacion at DH and Alonso at 1B blocks that path.
Tampa could surely use him; not sure who I’d want back.
The Mariners could try him at first, or of course move on from Nelson Cruz at DH. Segura could be part of what comes back? Marco back to St. Louis?
Matt Carpenter the better hitter? Yep, he hit for 2 1/2 months of the season. He only started swinging a bat when his milking walks was resulting in more strikeouts than walks. I don’t care how you score errors his 16 were far worse than Martinez. Balls he didn’t get to – Yep but not at 1B and it was pretty apparent that he was told that Bader would take care of anything in right center. So he complied. Right field is not normally populate by Gold Glovers – afterall that is where Harper hides…….LOL
Go look at the splits. This narrative that Carp was only good for 6 weeks or 10 weeks is BS. Carp had terrible April and September. Other 4 month of the season he raked among the best in baseball.
Harper is an average defender and played a bunch of CF this year. I love jose but he’s a terrible defender. I’m not sure what stats you are looking at to say otherwise but errors are the least of his problem. he spent most of the year learning 1b and couldn’t get it. he regularly came off the bag and had terrible instincts. in the OF he would constantly fail to reach balls because of bad breaks or routes. He may come out ahead of it with his bat but it’s just not worth it if they can get a solid RP or corner infielder for him.
Colome or Diaz is who I’d go after
I’ve said all along that defensive metrics are a joke. For God’s sake Jon Jay was a finalist for a gold glove. Jose Martinez is horrible on defense. Absolutely, positively, horrible. The Cards are in a decline that is not getting better. They need to rid themselves of some crappy players like Fowler and Cecil. They also have guys like Gyorko, Ozuna, Wacha, that just aren’t qualified to be paid like they are. Ozuna is a lazy azz. I also don’t believe all these young pitchers are worth holding on to. Poncedeleon, Weaver and Hudson don’t impress me. All in all, this team is still average defensively, have no legit star player or 3 hole hitter, and the bullpen needs to be fixed. There’s not a chance in he%% they are getting Harper. So enjoy 2019. It will be much like 2016, 2017 and 2018
In what way are the cardinals in a decline? They improved by 5 wins from 2017 while getting younger, losing no impact players to free agency, and are going to make moves to improve the team again this offseason. Yeah there are some problems to fix, but they’re building off of the improved second half version of the team as opposed to the first half version.
Well, Mo sucks for not outwaiting Jeter on Yelich instead of Ozuna. Maybe the team’s in decline in the front office?
And the dumb award goes to…..
Well if Mo would have waited he may have missed out on both Ozuna and yelich. He doesn’t suck for trading for a young player in his prime with 1.000 OPS potential when healthy, which is what Ozuna is.
The amusing thing here is you think the people who vote on gold glove awards have any understanding of defensive metrics anyways
Home runs hold more sway than actual defensive ability when you make it a popularity contest
3 years of missing the playoffs is a decline. I don;’t care how many wins they improved on. They still aren’t one of the best 5 teams in the NL.
Well, Ozuna was NOT healthy at the time of the trade, was NOT healthy during the season, and is now getting shoulder surgery.
This doesn’t make sense. They’re not as good as they were 5 years ago but the marginal change (which by definition tells you whether an object is increasing or decreasing) is positive. That means they’re not declining. In fact they’re improving. If you want to say they’re not good enough or that they’re not going to be as good as they should be, I’ll take that. But saying they’re in decline is just using a word incorrectly.
He paid less for ozuna for it’s not waited but chose the less expensive option
So true, it’s good to hear someone else give Jose credit. He is quite possibly our best bat and makes the minimum. Even as a part time right fielder and bench bat, he has value. Why is everyone so determined to hand him over to an AL team? Makes no sense and with our low contact offense, we need him.
His bat is decent but his defense is trash. He’s a DH playing in the NL.
They most definitely would be interested in Edwin Diaz. That would cost a lot, but Martinez would help that conversation.
Martinez and Fowler plus prospect to Seattle for Kyle Seager. Bounce back candidate for 3b, Cards get rid of Fowler.
Why would the retooling mariners do that? Make it one in for weaver no interest in fowler
Send Kelly, Weaver, and another prospect to Seattle for segura. Move him or dejong to 3rd and then sign Corbin. Trade Martinez for a solid reliever and sign Britton or Miller.
Too much for what Segura is owed IMO. Weaver and a low minors prospect sounds right. Martinez will bring the bullpen arm(s) needed with the right team.
Yeah I see that. Kelly still has value though and is wasting space on the 40 man, and will be for 2 more years as long as yadi stays healthy. Might as well flip him now for someone to fill one of our holes
I believe Knizer has passed Kelly at this point. Kelly needs to be traded while he has value. Spending 2 more years as Yadi’s backup isn’t helping anyone.
Corbin is signing with the Yanks.
Yanks just got their big lefty. Just because the talking heads make a prediction doesn’t mean it’s written in the stars
And just because they got a pitcher doesn’t mean they won’t get another one, especially since Paxton didn’t really dent their payroll space.
No I gotcha. I’m just saying that if stl decides that Corbin is the guy they want then they can make it happen. I’d love to see him in stl
Seattle is apparently aiming for a 2020-21 contention window so I don’t see them dealing Segura.
Never count out DiPoto. I could see a possible deal for Segura with the Cards.
Weaver will look great as a starter……………………………for the Marlins or Mets.
How much money do you think they can spend? The team needs a 5 year rebuild. Cinny is wayyyy ahead of you guys. Just give up this dream of always contending. Even the Yankees had to rebuild, but St. freaking Louis is immune to this? not even.
Cincinnati is way ahead of the Cardinals? Get out of here with that nonsense, dude. The Cardinals have 50 to 60 million dollars of payroll space (and even more after 2019), and an impact player like Harper, Machado, or even Donaldson (if he rebounds) would likely put them in the playoffs.
We have tons of payroll flexibility moving forward and a pretty deep bevy of young talent (O’Neill, Bader, Flaherty, Dejong, Reyes, Kelly, Hudson, Knizner, Hicks, Weaver, and Helsley all under team control for 4-6 more years). Not to mention valuable veterans like Carlos Martinez, Carpenter, Ozuna, Yadi, and Mikolas, plus tons of 2-WAR players to fill the holes, like Wong, Jose Martinez, Gyorko, and Wacha.
So yeah. You’re just painfully wrong.
Half those guys you mentioned won’t be on the team in 2 years.
Yeah, that’s how contracts work, dude? No team has ALL of its players locked down for 6 years. Having half of your team under control for 4-6 years (especially the younger half of your team) is the right way to run a franchise.
In two years, we’ll have more prospects who have developed to fill the holes left by older players because our front office develops consistent talent.
O’Neill, Reyes, Kelly, Knizner, Helsey, Weaver…what are these guys combined WAR. Not to mention Wong, Jose Martinez, Gyorko, and Wacha
What have they ever done to make you think this is the core of an elite team?
Wong, J Mart, Gyorko put up a combined 6.5 WAR (despite all three being in part-time roles).
Wacha put up 0.8 WAR despite only starting 15 games. He’s consistently put up 2-3 WAR per season when healthy (2014-2017).
The prospects that you mentioned obviously don’t have high WAR totals because most of them were in part-time roles or moving back and forth between the minors this season, or were still developing. That’s how prospects work.
You’re just digging yourself into a hole here, man.
Nobody said anything about the Cardinals being elite right now. But you compared them to Cincinnati, which is one of the five worst teams in the majors. The Cardinals are MILES ahead of a team floundering in its rebuild, even the casual baseball fan can see that.
no one is saying these guys are the core of an elite team….Reyes was the #1 pitching prospect in all of baseball before he had TJ…He is still top 20…Wong is one of the best defensive 2nd baseman in the game…Everyone else you mentioned is not part of the core…Bader (probably the best defensive CF in the game) Flaherty had votes for ROY, Hicks, Dejong….That is a good core to build around…add a few pieces around them and this is a very good team….at least you gave me the best laugh I have ever had in a long time
I only mentioned their names because “hollow body” mentioned them. He was saying this is the core of an elite team (I was told I was painfully wrong, and digging myself a hole). I was responding to him. I didn’t mention the names, you guys did and I copy and pasted. LOL
You guys brought them up and now accuse me of bringing them up. haha good logic.
I literally never said the word “elite.” All I said is we have the pieces to make the playoffs, if we sign a top player this offseason.
You’re offering zero analysis. If you wanted the data that supports my point, I provided them. If you want to troll, do a better job.
Just stop dude…seriously go troll elsewhere because you are really bad at it
“Just stop dude” lolol are you crying?
Next 3 seasons will prove me point…have red rooster “hold me accountable” lolol
Yay prospects. Prospects mean nothing unless they perform to expectations. I haven’t seen any prospects in 3 years lead this team to the playoffs. The prospects were so good, that they went out and gave Fowler a 5 year deal, Cecil a 4 year deal, Molina a 3 year deal, re-upped Wainwright, still have Gyorko on the team, they tried to turn Martinez into a 1B man, signed an aging Holland and Norris to a combined $17M in the off season, yet all these prospects are here? Prospects are cool. Parades are cooler.
You mean like Grichuk, Piscotty, Gonzales, Kelly, have developed and filled the holes here? Oh wait, they aren’t here.
“We have tons of payroll flexibility moving forward and a pretty deep bevy of young talent…”
“Not to mention valuable veterans…”
“plus tons of 2-WAR players to fill the holes…”
You didn’t use the exact word “elite”
But if all the quotes you said above were true, it would be an “elite” team…your words, not mine.
But we now all agree this team IS NOT “elite” and not going to make the playoffs anytime soon. Ok good talk.
I don’t understand your points here, Daved.
Yes, obviously prospects have to become good players. Lucky for us, we develop a LOT of major league talent. And yeah, we trade some of it off, like literally EVERY other team in the league. We have one of the most home-grown teams in the MLB.
Even though it has nothing to do with my point: No one is defending the Fowler, Holland, or Cecil deals. But let’s be clear: Gyorko, Molina, Martinez, and Norris have all been good or even great deals for the team, thus far. And absolutely none of those contracts have hurt our payroll flexibility. We still have 50 – 60 million dollars to spend this offseason. So I don’t get complaining about their contracts.
How many playoff wins have Fowler, Gyorko, Cecil, Holland, Martinez, and Norris brought to the team?
Why do you think they aren’t making the playoffs anytime soon? They missed it by 2.5 games. They can easily make up 5 games by adding a couple bullpen arms. A healthy Alex Reyes and Carlos Martinez are easily 3 more than 3 wins. Or Dejong, Wong, and Molina avoiding long injuries is a huge difference.
The reds missed the playoffs by 23 games and have terrible pitching going forward.
Awww, juicemane is it past your bedtime? You seem a little fussy.
and they wont spend a dime of it. old players. shaky arms and a bunch of guys hitting 250 with no power. cards are going to finish 3 or 4th
wong is terrible. war is for people who can’t think.
did he say you? it was a general statement. wow. fucijg southerners
buch of average guys and guys way way past prime
@juicemane……lolololololololololololol
That would be an overall downgrade! Martinez and Corbin are basically a push, while Segura is a downgrade compared to what they have with Gyorko.
I’d like to see us try to swing a trade for Greinke and goldy. Maybe flip Fowler for Cobb, he probably wouldnt wave his ntc though. Maybe package Kelly and martinez and weaver, or separate, to try to get some bullpen help. If no Harper then sign brantley.if no goldy then maybe go after a Seager, the Seattle one, or lamb from arizona. Or just sign Donaldson. Cards have money and trade chips, not a terrible position to be in.
Baltimore will have no interest in 3 years of Fowler.
Teams swap bad contracts all the time. If the Cardinals packaged Fowler with the right prospect(s), the Orioles would definitely consider their offer. Baltimore isn’t competing anytime soon, so they’re poised to take on players like Fowler, for the right deal. That’s a common strategy for rebuilding teams.
Read an article like a month ago that said the Orioles are trying desperately to get rid of Cobb. Even maybe in a bad salary swap. Only reason I suggested the Fowler swap. Plus if he improves he could be traded again
Jose will definitely be traded. Should move DeJong to third and upgrade defensively at short. The Cardinals can look to get a really good defense behind a young group of pitchers which will only help their confidence and results. You could have gold glove type defense up the middle at ss 2nd base and centre. Trading for a top of the rotation arm might be the way to go.
DeJong was one of the top defensive shortstops in the league, why try to upgrade a small amount defensively when you can sign a big bat at third to upgrade a large amount offensively? There is a lot more to gain there than a mostly glove-only shortstop.
Tuivailala was traded in july 2018. lyons is a free agent
Which is why they were referred to as “additions by subtraction”
addition by subtraction was getting rid of them. no need to revisit thise two
Let’s do some more addition by subtraction and send Mo and Girsch to Siberia with one way plane tickets.
Find another GM who has never tanked, has a better winning percentage, and more World Series appearances than Mo and go ahead and replace him with that guy. Good luck on your job search.
Tank or no tank, who gives a damn? 3 years missing the playoffs. I dont care about 7 years ago.
I would say I give a damn about seeing competitive baseball year after year. To discount a GMs track record based off of 3 seasons of missed playoffs is crazy, especially when considering the position the team is in. The Cardinals are in a transition period where new, younger players are being cycled in, and now the superstar is needed to supplement that solid young talent. The team is set up to compete in the present and well into the future thanks largely to Mo. Hes put together a competitive MLB club and a strong farm simultaneously, which often doesn’t happen. I still think there’s work to be done, but I don’t see any way you can find an available executive to do it better than Mo. Unless your “give a damn” has run out after 3 winning seasons, then go ahead and yell for a rebuild and fire everyone.
st. louis needs an ace
They already have two of them in Martinez and Mikolas, three if Wacha’s first two months before he got hurt last year was the real deal, and four if Flaherty gets even better. Meanwhile, they’ve got like 4 or 5 candidates from which to choose a decent 5th starter. The rotation is not the issue with this team.
They do need an Ace. Carlos is a great number two on a great staff when he is dominate. Reyes and Flaherty r only guys I believe can be in the future right now. Doubt we go make a move for one tho. If Cards miss out on Harper, and I think that comes down to which star (Machado or Harper) Phillies sign, I’d love to see a Goldy + Zack G trade form the the Dbacks.
DBacks: Goldy+ Zack G ( pay down some salary
Cards: C Kelly+ Weaver + Montero+ a lil more
I totally agree with your thinking STL-NYC. OVERALL, I just really hope they do something! I am tired of the let downs.
Sign Harper, Dozier and Ottivino. Trade for Goldschmidt and Grienke. That’s all I’m wishing for this Christmas.
Why dozier
I think you can get him pretty cheap, and hes only a year removed from having big numbers. Wong is great defensively and has great potential. But right now is a bottom of the order hitter and hasn’t really panned out. At the very worst, you could platoon them. Maybe trade wong. Who knows?
Dozier was worse than Wong in almost all offensive categories and was worse in every defensive category last year. He is older and was worth about 1.0 war last year to wongs 3.5. Why would you say Wong hasn’t panned out? He has steadily improved his offense and defense the last 2 years.
That’s a pretty wish weak list ha ha
I also want a So Taguchi bobblehead giveaway, but I dont wanna ask for TOO much!
You seriously think the Cardinals have enough money to pay Harper, Grienke, Dozier, and Goldschmidt?! I don’t think so. Besides, the Cardinals have no need for Grienke or Dozier, anyway.
Jose for be a good fit for the WhiteSox Fowler also maybe bad contract for bad Contract Fowler for Nate Jones.
Harper would be amazing but if not.
Donaldson and Andrew Miller would be great don’t need a SP. Segura would be a great fit if Donaldson doesn’t work would be a great number 2 hole hitter. I hope they don’t trade for Goldy, unless they are sure they can extend him but Goldy will be 32 when he hits FA next year.
Looking at defense alone, neither ONeill nor Fowler were great in right field so we all can agree to disagree on Martinez. Have no problem if he ends up being dealt but would be nice if we got something in return and its not just a give away for someone to fill a slot in AA. Need to unload Fowler! I was screaming two years ago that we should not get Fowler but then I was all in on Holland so guess I’m at 500. PACKAGE ONeill and Fowler to San Francisco, they need outfield help, for,Watson. Sign Brantley, he makes great contact, for right field. Donaldson for 3rd base, along with Britton. Shorter term contracts, less money and Cards have filled their obvious needs are a now a contender. Plus, in that scenario still have Martinez to play right field against left handers and to pinch hit which was lacking last year. Want another piece added, we still have ELEVEN potential starting pitchers and a couple need to be moved.
ONeil was bad in right field? I don’t know what team or ONeil you were watching but ONeil plays a great right field and can also play CF
Let’s see….he let a fly ball drop, he let another ball go under his glove, he threw to the wrong base on a number of occasions. He never seemed to be listening/paying attention to Bader his center fielder. Glad he can play center field but that doen’t make him any better in right field. Then there is his inability to make contact at the plate. No one I would least like to see at bat with a runner at third and less than two outs….but that’s another story and does not equate to his defense.
exactly has nothing to do with defense and just because he had a few miscues with Bader doesn’t make him a bad RF…If anything he had a few miscues because he was right there to catch the ball along with Bader….both of them are really fast…oh and did you see that play were he made a diving catch on the sideline….also if you want to mention a few miscues then look at his defensive stats and compare them to lets say a good right fielder…jason Heyward…his numbers pretty much match his
Facts
Well reading this morning that the Cardinals are talking to the D-Backs about Goldy. I like the idea for sure. But I don’t like the idea of Carpenter at 3rd by no means. I would much rather trade for Goldy and sign Donaldson to play 3rd. I know I am going to take a lot of heat for this but why not Trade Carpenter to an AL team so he can be a DH. Get back some nice bullpen arms. Trade Martinez also and add bullpen depth there also. Sign LPH Miller would also make this team more competitive in the long run.
We could put carp at second? I know terrible defense, but him goldy and Donaldson in the lineup would be nice. And goldy has to be better defensively at first than carp, and Donaldson better defensively at third than gyorko and carp combined. So evens out maybe….probably not lol
Gyorko is a very good defensive third baseman, certainly a better glove than Donaldson..
The Cardinals have so many ways they can go with not only financial flexibility but also with prospect flexibility. Machado and Harper can cripple an organization for years with the type of money they are seeking. The Yankees are open to moving Andujar and are looking for another starter. Carlos Martinez may fit this bill as he is controlled for several more years and the Cards would fill their void at 3b. They would still have plenty of money to sign one or two decent free agents whether it be pitching or hitting. No matter what route they take they need to shake things up a bit, not making changes and expecting a better outcome due to a manager change is short sighted.
I like taking a chance on Andujar. I know his defense is awful but his bat looks worth it. He’s probably better off as a DH somewhere but he can’t be much worse than carp at third. I’m also really nervous about them signing Donaldson. He’s missed so much time the last 2 years with lower body injuries and when he’s played he hasn’t been all that good. Leg injuries have a way of catching up with people. Especially into their 30s
Trade Carpenter while you can. He’s on the decline and he’s a free agent after next year. They don’t need to hold on to a slow footed defensively challenged lead off man who teams shift against because he’s a pull hitter. As for Martinez, he has a decent bat but his defense is tragic and he didn’t produce consistently as the season went on. Wong is the best 2nd basemen in baseball and his offense is trending in the right direction evident by his numbers the past two seasons. Fowler should bounce back next season if he’s finally healthy. I’d rather for them to go after Machado over Harper because he’s very good defensively and is more consistent offensively than Harper.
Knowing the dope Mozeliak, he will likely extend Carpenter 2 more years.
Lol right smh
Manny Machado on hustling: ‘That’s not my cup of tea’. Is that who you want as the face of the franchise…..??
He’s an arrogant jerk for sure but hustle or not he’s one of the 5 best players in baseball and only 26. I’d rather go after Harper but Machado is a huge add to any team, especially one that needs to improve at third and needs a big bat.
Carpenter just had one of the best seasons of his career. How is he on the decline?
Granted, at his age, his decline should start very soon, but that just means that he’s still likely to post at least one more very good (rather than excellent) year. There’s no reason not to keep him for the last year or two (if his option is picked up) on his contract and then let him walk, possibly with a rejected qualifying offer.
Bring back Jon Jay. I want to see that fat azz run in circles, dive for balls unnecessarily, throw rainbows from RF to 2B, and possibly run face first, at full speed, into the wall like he did in 2012 on a Drew Stubbs HR.. Then we can watch the idiot sheeple give him another standing ovation at his first at bat.
Dude, who hurt you?
Watching Jon Jay play baseball hurts my eyes.
Are you really a Cardinals fan daved?
John Jay is an undervalued player..
100% Agree
Yeah like God forbid a solid, if unspectacular player who was part of a World Series winning team gets a standing ovation.
Just like last offseason, I still don’t see how Moustakes can be considered an upgrade over what they already have in Gyorko. Moose has a little more power, but Gyorko plays better defense and gets on base more often.
I’m gonna jump in here. Why do you all want Machado (no hustle) or Harper (.279 career hitter NOT WORTH 400million)??? The guy we NEED to be going after is Nolan Arenado. He’s probably the 3rd best player in baseball behind trout and betts. We have young arms to deal.
You all talk about prospects…again, they mean nothing if they don’t pan out. YOU always move prospects for established starts. We could have had sale and his incredible controlled contract, but we don’t. We could have EASILY given JD martinez 110million for 5 years. Why didnt we? WE have all this money to spend. Instead we get the likes of cecil, holland, zach duke, gregorson, and a lot of other names i could type here. We’ve needed right handed power for how many years???
Arenado “checks all the boxes. He’s a given .300 hitter, 35+ homers, 110+ rbis and a gold glove every year. Thank you.