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Pitching Market Notes: Eovaldi, Yankees, Happ, Kikuchi, Gray, MadBum

By Jeff Todd | December 1, 2018 at 1:14am CDT

After a busy day of arbitration decisions, it’s worth taking stock of some recent developments in the broader market. We’ve already touched upon some major storylines today, with looks at Patrick Corbin (link), Zack Greinke (link), and Carlos Carrasco (link). Here’s more …

  • Though Corbin seems to be captivating the market at present, chatter on Nathan Eovaldi is also “heating up,” per MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand (Twitter link). Unsurprisingly, the Red Sox and Astros are presently seen as prime contenders to land him. With the American League shaping up to be another clash of titans, those organizations are positioned t stake some dough on Eovaldi’s upside.
  • The Yankees are a major player on Corbin, of course, but also some other arms — and not just as a backup plan. Indeed, per Jayson Stark of The Athletic (via Twitter), the club could even add another significant starter if it does get Corbin. That’d be quite a surprise, given that the team would appear to have a clear starting five if Corbin signs, but perhaps there’s a way to pull something off that would still make sense and leave the club with immense rotation depth.
  • Meanwhile, southpaw J.A. Happ is said to have “ten teams chasing” him at this point, per Jon Heyman of Fancred. One of those is the Brewers, who’d presumably like to bolster their rotation but also don’t appear to have an immense amount of money to use. Of course, giving up on Jonathan Schoop clears a big piece of payroll, so long as the club finds a way to address its infield needs without using all the savings.
  • There’s also a “strong” market for Japanese hurler Yusei Kikuchi, Heyman tweets. Unsurprisingly, west coast clubs — the Dodgers, Padres, Giants, and Mariners, at least — appear to be lining up for the 27-year-old. It’s still hard to know what kind of salary and duration he’ll be able to command. But as this particular list of clubs shows, Kikuchi’s unusual youth will play a major role in his market by opening the door to quite a few organizations to pursue him.
  • Elsewhere, the Yankees are still trying to offload an asset in Sonny Gray. Per Ken Davidoff of the New York Post, with GM Brian Cashman saying he has discussed a multitude of different scenarios involving Gray, including some larger deals. That suggests that the Yanks are comfortable hanging onto Gray for a while as they sort through the possibilities, rather than putting him on the market and taking the best deal then available.
  • Gray is as good as gone from the team’s perspective, but that’s clearly not the same situation for Giants ace Madison Bumgarner. The burly southpaw is reportedly on the table. But that doesn’t mean he’ll be priced at a level that will lead to a deal. Indeed one organizational source tells Heyman (Twitter link) they “don’t see [Bumgarner] going anywhere this winter.” Certainly, the Giants have little need to dump Bumgarner if they aren’t getting something worthwhile in return. Teams with interest, though, will remain wary of a big price for one season of a player with recent shoulder woes and some performance questions.
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Boston Red Sox Houston Astros Los Angeles Dodgers Milwaukee Brewers New York Yankees San Diego Padres San Francisco Giants Seattle Mariners J.A. Happ Madison Bumgarner Nathan Eovaldi Patrick Corbin Sonny Gray Yusei Kikuchi

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View Comments (203)
Post a Comment

203 Comments

  1. kvnmaret

    7 years ago

    “The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim sign Kikuchi…”

    1
    Reply
    • xabial

      7 years ago

      Yankee fans got trashed hard here after guarantee Ohtani signs with them. Same could happen to you. Don’t condemn your fan base to that…

      He’s signing with Yanks after they get outbid for Corbin

      3
      Reply
      • butch779988

        7 years ago

        You haven’t a clue

        2
        Reply
        • 3rdStrikeLooking

          7 years ago

          The answer is “No”. He is too stupid.

          Reply
      • dave13

        7 years ago

        The exact thing you tell him not to do, you do in the exact same post

        11
        Reply
      • Dock_Elvis

        7 years ago

        Hey…Captain Smug is back…telling people how to feel and being condescending.

        6
        Reply
      • Vickers

        7 years ago

        Is this a real comment?

        Reply
      • slider32

        7 years ago

        You either love them or hate them, Phillies have said they are spending stupid money this winter, Cashman will stick to his value. That’s how he turned the team around so quick. Most new GM’s know the value of players today, and will not overpay too much.

        Reply
      • arc89

        7 years ago

        Nobody knows where Kikuchi will sign. He has not mentioned 1 team. Ohtani was supposed to sign with Mariners in the early rumors so its a guess where he signs.

        2
        Reply
        • Jean Matrac

          7 years ago

          Not sure why you get down-voted for posting nothing but irrefutable facts. I guess some people don’t like hearing the truth.

          1
          Reply
        • Jean Matrac

          7 years ago

          A down-vote, that’s too funny.

          1
          Reply
      • yukongold

        7 years ago

        Are you Big Dan?

        Reply
    • GeoKaplan

      7 years ago

      1) It’s just “Los Angeles Angels”. Been that way officially for a couple of years.

      2) This is a different scenario from Ohtani. All the teams got to make their pitch to him about why Team X would be the best fit. With Kikuchi, only one team will make the highest bid, and win the opportunity to negotiate with Scott Boras for a deal.

      1
      Reply
      • cookmeister 2

        7 years ago

        I thought that the rules changed and the max bid was $20 mil? If multiple teams put up the money, they all get to negotiate (anybody know if they is still the case?)

        3
        Reply
        • TeddyBallgameYazJimEd

          7 years ago

          That’s correct.. say 3 teams bid the max..$20M. Then the player decides who he wants to sign with.

          1
          Reply
  2. MetsYankeesRedSox

    7 years ago

    Xabial must be sleeping

    7
    Reply
    • xabial

      7 years ago

      Sadly, I’m a sleep-deprived college student

      7
      Reply
      • flabbit

        7 years ago

        What school

        Reply
      • Dodgethis

        7 years ago

        Why admit you’re a fool by pronouncing yourself as a student?

        3
        Reply
        • dhud

          7 years ago

          Being a college student means you’re a fool??

          Interesting….

          17
          Reply
        • NotaGM

          7 years ago

          you are an idiot.

          who cares of age???

          current major league rosters looking for you like x

          3
          Reply
        • ABStract

          7 years ago

          I think Dodgethis is just proved himself to be a fool
          Maybe try being a student of life and learn when to keep insane comments to oneself

          2
          Reply
        • JKB 2

          7 years ago

          Why would being a college student mean your a fool? You must not have an education yourself.

          4
          Reply
        • aceofrainbows

          7 years ago

          Dodgethis:

          I’m in high school. Does that make me stupid? In all likelihood I read just as much about baseball as you do. There’s no way of being sure from the knowledge you have about me how smart I am and how realistic or valid my baseball opinions and trade proposals are.

          3
          Reply
        • MetsYankeesRedSox

          7 years ago

          Dodgethis

          You are the ultimate moron.
          CONGRATS!!!

          Reply
      • Dock_Elvis

        7 years ago

        That’s it…it explains your complete lack of social engagement skill set.

        Reply
      • driftcat28 2

        7 years ago

        Been there man, good luck to you!

        2
        Reply
      • juicemane

        7 years ago

        When did 15 credit hours deprive anyone of sleep??? Its all the other time you waste, like on here saying nonsense.

        Reply
        • Houston We Have A Solution

          7 years ago

          15 credit hours? Dude that’s like 4 or 5 even 6 classes lol.

          My god studying for finals for 4 5 6 classes and midterms youll get sleep deprived.

          5
          Reply
        • ABStract

          7 years ago

          Everyone’s a wimp nowadays, why all the hate for college students?

          2
          Reply
        • MetsYankeesRedSox

          7 years ago

          15 creds prob five classes

          Good luck ….I dropped out of Rutgers

          Reply
      • MetsYankeesRedSox

        7 years ago

        Finish it and it will be worth it.

        1
        Reply
    • Slevin

      7 years ago

      You just opened the flood gates!!

      9
      Reply
      • MetsYankeesRedSox

        7 years ago

        He sure did but screw them!

        Reply
  3. painterman360

    7 years ago

    Lol y’all wait for other comments….

    Reply
  4. Jbigz12

    7 years ago

    The way I see it the brewers are just going to be taking that money they had allotted to Schoop and at the minimum are going to spending that on another 2b or I guess maybe a 3b if they wanna watch Shaw play 2nd again. I can’t see how they end up saving any of that money if they sign a replacement. Maybe a little less salary for this year if they sign a lemahieu but that’ll probably require at least a 2 year commitment.

    2
    Reply
    • steelerbravenation

      7 years ago

      The Brewers could fill a spot in their rotation give the Braves Domingo Santana and they give them Julio Teheran. Perfect match fits both teams needs. Make it happen.

      Reply
      • Slevin

        7 years ago

        Did Teheran kick sand in your face or something?

        8
        Reply
      • RunDMC

        7 years ago

        You’ve proposed this on so many pages and still gets the same tepid response. Teheran has $11MM left not including a $1MM buyout that a team assumes. Santana is making about league minimum, so ATL would need to include either cash or prospects in a deal.

        But, based on career numbers, Santana would be an upgrade offensively over Kakes, but not defensively, where he’d be below-average. I don’t think he’d be much of an upgrade altogether in Markakis – or enough to deal for him. Now, if he were a DH, that’d be a different story.

        If you’re ATL, do you make that deal – seeing Santana as the worthy upgrade, mid-order bat in COF – or do you pay for 3-5 years of Brantley, Pollock, Cutch – or do you trade for someone else entirely? And, do you think MIL would want Teheran for this? Considering his issues with the HR and knowing they are looking at contending – I don’t think they take that chance, especially for a known trade chip in Santana. Like ATL, they are looking for an upgrade, not a risky pick-up with value.

        4
        Reply
    • Vanilla Good

      7 years ago

      If/when the Brewers do acquire a 2B this year, it’ll likely only be on a 1-year deal with Keston Hiura waiting in the wings. Of course if they package him for an ace then nevermind.

      Reply
    • ReddVencher

      7 years ago

      I expect the Brewers to pick up Dietrich for fairly cheap to play 2B. They had interest in him at the deadline last season.

      Reply
      • 2id

        7 years ago

        Why they traded for Schoop rather than Dietrich is beyond me.

        Reply
        • ReddVencher

          7 years ago

          Because they got Moustakas instead and were looking at someone who could play some SS.

          Reply
    • biasisrelitive

      7 years ago

      Look at the 2b market lots of options and not tons of demand. There will be cheep options

      Reply
  5. baseball1600

    7 years ago

    Glad the Giants aren’t selling low on MadBum. Every time somebody brings up a trade purposal for him, they include sub-par prospects. You either pay a hefty package or you don’t. There’s no reason to sell-low on Bum. Might as well just ride it out until a team gets desperate enough to overpay.

    4
    Reply
    • xabial

      7 years ago

      Enjoy riding out that QO, when he signs with Yankees. Dude is on an expiring contract. Time is running out to be playing games.

      3
      Reply
      • Dock_Elvis

        7 years ago

        Yankees….right…mr cowboy there seems like a natural fit. It’s like you’re one of those magic 8 balls that has a select group of responses

        Reply
      • justin-turner overdrive

        7 years ago

        Yeah, he’ll move from the NL in an extreme pitchers park division and move to the most hitter-friendly bandbox in MLB, along with a whole division of hitter-friendly parks, sounds like a nice sign by NYY. LOL sure, go get MadBum as a FA. LOL

        MadBum should sign in SD after this, only place his declining stuff will play.

        Reply
        • ABStract

          7 years ago

          I love all this “declining stuff” talk on bum, grasping at straws for anything bad to say about him
          If he was a dodger he’d be your god, he’s the best post season pitcher in history for Zeus’ sake!
          Even when injured the last two years he’s still had around a 3.2/3.3 era…stop being ridiculous

          3
          Reply
        • aceofrainbows

          7 years ago

          I think justin-turner overdrive is a pun and they’re actually an A’s fan.

          2
          Reply
        • larry48

          7 years ago

          bum has lost a lot of velocity was 93-95 in hay days, no sits in 88-91 and location is also worse. His great slider is now just an average or below average slider. Hes has not been great for 3-4 years.

          Reply
        • Jean Matrac

          7 years ago

          Please cite your source for these numbers. You’re saying he had averaged 94, and now averages 89.5. A drop of 4.5 MPH?

          The truth is Bum was never a fireballer. According to Fangraphs, his highest average velocity was 93.0 in 2015. Over his 6 seasons, 2010 through 2015, he averaged 92.5 on his fastball. Over the last 2 seasons he’s averaged 91.4. A drop of only 1.1 MPH. That’s quite a bit different that what you’ve posted.

          2
          Reply
      • jekporkins

        7 years ago

        I will bet you $100 he doesn’t sign with the Yankees. Bum would hate playing there, and as you can tell from the last contract he signed, money isn’t his sole focus. I got another $100 he never signs with Los Angeles either.

        I like you, Xabial, you got heart for your team. But quit thinking every single good player in MLB is going to sign with the Yankees. It makes you sound like a spoiled brat.

        3
        Reply
    • johnnyringofwc

      7 years ago

      He has never even had a bad year. I agree.

      1
      Reply
    • Slevin

      7 years ago

      Soon to be joining Bryce Harper in Yankee Pinstripes…

      4
      Reply
  6. RedRooster

    7 years ago

    “Certainly, the Giants have little need to dump Bumgarner if they aren’t getting something worthwhile in return.”
    Sure they do. Other teams aren’t going to offer more at the deadline when they only get 2 months of him and can’t QO him.

    5
    Reply
    • Dodgethis

      7 years ago

      Wrong and wrong. The only reason a team trades for him is for the postseason. He gets more valuable the closer the deadline gets. A team who feels this is their year, should do everything they can to get the one guy who dominates in the postseason. Critical thinking is your friend.

      5
      Reply
      • Jbigz12

        7 years ago

        It’s not always the case. If a team has apprehension about trading for him now because his numbers have been trending downward the last 2 years it’s plausible they could get more for him in June or July if he comes back to mad bum of old form. If the offers are good now then obviously you take a look but they could plausibly get better with a guy like that. Same argument can be made for it to go the other way but there’s a risk/reward component to holding on a little longer that could be worth it.

        5
        Reply
      • RedRooster

        7 years ago

        No if they wait to trade him the other team can’t QO him

        3
        Reply
  7. johnnyz123

    7 years ago

    Greg Bird and Sonny Gray for MadBum.

    1
    Reply
    • xabial

      7 years ago

      Nothing is good enough for loyal MadBum Giant fans.

      I’ve seen some say no to packages with Florial. You really think Giants can do better than Florial?

      5
      Reply
      • Dock_Elvis

        7 years ago

        I think the Reds can hammer down a pretty good deal for almost any one.

        Reply
    • pustule bosey

      7 years ago

      that is a pretty worthless get for sf.

      6
      Reply
      • Jbigz12

        7 years ago

        How is Florial a worthless get for SF?? Mad bum has one year left and I’m going to let you in on a secret, the giants aren’t winning the WS next year.

        7
        Reply
        • atuck_sfg

          7 years ago

          But a team getting MadBum gets one of the best and most proven postseason pitchers in baseball history, one would think that’s pretty valuable. Theoretically would you rather have MadBum or someone else starting or even relieving game 7 of the World Series?

          1
          Reply
        • PhanaticDuck26

          7 years ago

          he was prob talking about the Bird & Gray idea above…

          9
          Reply
        • xabial

          7 years ago

          would like to hear him say that…

          2
          Reply
        • restingmitchface

          7 years ago

          All due respect, it ain’t 2014 anymore. I could probably name 50 guys off the top of my head.

          4
          Reply
        • Mishimacool

          7 years ago

          Ok. We will wait. Proceed…

          2
          Reply
        • ffrhb14Sox

          7 years ago

          Bird has failed to take hold of an open 1B for what 3 years now. Gray has already been said to be trash on the way out of NY. Thats a pretty worthless get for SF. They’d be better off taking chances on a few midlevel prospects that they would have more control over.

          4
          Reply
        • pustule bosey

          7 years ago

          no, i meant bird and gray being worthless. bird doesn’t really have a place so you are essentially swapping madbum for gray

          4
          Reply
        • justin-turner overdrive

          7 years ago

          Bird is horrible at baseball and has ZERO trade value. He should be DFA’d so you idiots will shut up about including him in ALL of your terrible and wildly lopsided trade proposals.

          Saying you hate Gray and want him gone murdered his trade value too. You will be lucky to get an 18 year old lottery pick for him.

          3
          Reply
        • billneftleberg

          7 years ago

          He’s not the same pitcher he was then however.don’t you think The Giants would sign him themselves if they thought he was that same pitcher who won them 3 world series? Of course they would. But they know he’s aged and isn’t that guy any more.So wake up and give your head a shake. This isn’t 2012 Dorothy,and it certainly isn’t Kansas

          1
          Reply
        • lasershow45

          7 years ago

          Panda was also a most proven post season player….

          MadBum got hurt and has thrown an absolute ton of innings over the years. Teams may or may not look at him as a ticking timebomb.

          2
          Reply
        • thegreatcerealfamine

          7 years ago

          How did a bunch of posters on the internet murder Gray’s trade value?

          3
          Reply
        • mrnatewalter

          7 years ago

          They didn’t.

          Brian Cashman ruined his value.

          7
          Reply
        • lasershow45

          7 years ago

          I’ll take Eovaldi right now. Or Max. Or Price. Or Verlander… Because they were great in 2018. Madbum is mortal in the playoffs and if I thought of it longer I could come up with a longer list

          Reply
        • Markdashark

          7 years ago

          Heck yeah they would sign him to a 1 year 12 million dollar contract Dorothy.

          2
          Reply
        • Jean Matrac

          7 years ago

          Verlander also aged, also got hurt and performed badly as a result, and also threw a ton of innings. He also finished 2nd in the CY voting at age 36 this year. Passing judgement that Bum, who has a similar body type as Verlander, is done, may be premature.

          4
          Reply
        • Jbigz12

          7 years ago

          Yeah you’re right.

          Reply
        • Central Valley

          7 years ago

          What would teams trade for Clayton Kershaw? Serious question.

          Why is every team talking down on Madison Bumgarner like he’s some injury prone pitcher? He’s not. He’s still only 29, makes little money comparitively, and is still one of the top left handed aces in MLB. I have a gut feeling that Bumgarner will pitch great next year, and teams will be offering packages of their top tier prospects for him. He’s still the player I want pitching in a must win game. Kershaw is not. Paxton is not, insert just about any other pitcher in baseball. Bumgarner is still a beast and will be back healthy and at full strength next year.

          4
          Reply
        • LADreamin

          7 years ago

          Your method of thought is what got all those teams in hot water with aging rosters 10 years ago. Madbum’s peripherals are way down for the past couple years. His velocity and K% trending down. He’s in clear decline. Is he still a good pitcher? Comparatively yes, but how much are you going to give up for a pitcher in decline? He’ll get moved at the deadline for a modest package. Better if he regains his stuff.

          1
          Reply
        • Jean Matrac

          7 years ago

          Verlander was in clear decline as well. From 2009 to 2014 he lost 3 MPH on his FB. Since then he’s slowly increased his velocity each year so that he’s added 2.1 MPH. Verlander’s K/9 went from 10.9 in 2009 to 6.5 in 2014. It was 12.2 last season. His WAR was 7.7 in 2009 and it dropped to 2.9 in 2014. It was 6.8 in 2018.

          A lot of Verlander’s issues were injury related just like Bumgarners. I can understand if teams don’t want to gamble that Bum can comeback like Verlander, but by the same token, if I’m the Giants i’m not letting him go cheap. Verlander shows that decline is not inevitable.

          3
          Reply
        • ffrhb14Sox

          7 years ago

          Didnt Gray do that himself as a Yankee?

          Reply
        • LADreamin

          7 years ago

          Verlander is the exception, not the rule. He did what many others have tried, and it worked out for him. Bumgarner has to do the same thing, but it’s not so easy. The good news is that he’s only 29, but there’s a lot of miles on that arm already. I don’t think the Giants get market value for him unless he posts top of the rotation numbers at the beginning of the 2019 season. There’s no way. I think he stays put in SF, making all this trade chatter superfluous.

          Reply
        • Jean Matrac

          7 years ago

          Verlander also had a ton of innings under his belt, more than Bumgarner BTW. Over 10 years Bum has thrown 1,638 1/3 innings. Over Verlanders first 10 seasons he threw 1,978, almost 34 innings per season more. Verlander was 32 when he began his return to excellence. Bum is 29.

          Both Bum and Verlander are big and strong, and both had numbers decline due to injury. All I’m saying is since Verlander has come back, and given the nature of Bum’s injuries, there’s a chance he can too.

          And that is why the Giants are not going to let him go cheaply. The payoff, if he does bounce back. is too good to do that. And if Bum pitches well, and the Giants are out of it, the return will be higher at the deadline. A productive Bumgarner could be the difference in winning the WS or not. Teams will pay for that.

          1
          Reply
    • Melchez

      7 years ago

      Bird and Gray for MadBum? Jacoby Jones and Matt Hall for MadBum. There, I can play this game too. Shane Greene for Aaron Judge?

      1
      Reply
  8. johnnyringofwc

    7 years ago

    Yankees could keep Sonny as a long guy in the pen who pitches on the road or at short spurts at Yankee Stadium. They could still flip him at the deadline if they don’t get offers to their liking this off-season.

    4
    Reply
    • Dock_Elvis

      7 years ago

      9M long reliever? Not building trade value at the same time?

      3
      Reply
    • driftcat28 2

      7 years ago

      No thank you. Gray needs to go away

      Reply
      • justin-turner overdrive

        7 years ago

        Then stop acting like he has trade value and DFA or nontender him.

        3
        Reply
  9. ilovelamp

    7 years ago

    Can someone explain the new posting system to me? Does Yusei get to pick where he plays, and then they just pay his current team? Is the only difference between his situation and Shohei’s that he’s old enough to not fall under the international free agent rules?

    Reply
    • Cat Mando

      7 years ago

      For Major League contracts with a total guaranteed value of $25 million or less, the release fee will be 20% of the total guaranteed value of the contract;
      For Major League contracts with a total guaranteed value between $25,000,001 and $50 million, the release fee will be: (i) 20% of the first $25 million of the guaranteed total (i.e. $5 million) plus (ii) 17.5% of the total guaranteed value exceeding $25 million;
      For Major League contracts with a total guaranteed value of $50,000,001 or more, the release fee will be: (i) 20% of the first $25 million of the guaranteed total (i.e. $5 million) plus (ii) 17.5% of the total guaranteed value between $25,000,001 and $50 million (i.e. $4,375,000) plus (iii) 15% of the total guaranteed value exceeding $50 million
      For Major League contracts that contain bonus, salary escalators or options (Club, mutual or vesting), the Club may owe a supplemental release fee at a later date equal to 15% of any bonuses or salary escalators actually earned by the player under his contract, and/or 15% of any compensation paid to the player in Club, mutual or vesting option years that were exercised or vested;
      For Minor League contracts, the release fee will be a flat 25% of the signing bonus. (For Minor League contracts of “Foreign Professionals” that contain Major League terms, a supplemental release fee will be owed if the player is added to the 25-man roster.)
      mlbtraderumors.com/2017/12/mlb-ratifies-new-npb-po…

      2
      Reply
  10. steelerbravenation

    7 years ago

    AA came out and said his top priority is a TOR SP. with the money spent on Donaldson/McCann already they don’t have the money to sign anybody like Corbin or trade for Greinke & his contract. So I believe that leaves Kluber/Carrasco/Bauer who I don’t feel the Braves have the positional needs the Indians would need. Or MadBum who I feel is the best fit at this point. When the winter meetings come I would not be surprised to see a deal happen. His cost should be reason alone to overpay a bit and if AA gets him before the season starts it’s getting a draft pick along with him with the ability to offer the qualifying offer.

    Maybe get Sil Smith with him in a package to kill 2 birds with 1 stone for the Braves.
    Bryce Wilson
    Max Fried
    Austin Riley
    Tristan Beck
    Travis Demmeritte
    For MadBum & Wil Smith

    1
    Reply
    • CT

      7 years ago

      Braves overpay. No way Riley is wasted on a 1 year rental and a decent but not great reliever.

      1
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    • RunDMC

      7 years ago

      Deal away valuable parts of our future for MadBum and the Curse of the 4-Wheeler? FWIW, dealing away Tristan Beck and 2018 Draft would just about be a waste – COF Greyson Jenista notwithstanding.

      I’d say that might even be an overpay for one of CLE’s pitchers – who I value a lot more than 1 year of MadBum.

      1
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    • justin-turner overdrive

      7 years ago

      AA is trash and right behind DiPoto as the most overrated GM in the game. I beg of Braves fans, please do not homer for that loser like Jays fans did. You should be scared of him blowing it for your very talented team.

      1
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      • its_happening

        7 years ago

        AA is overrated. But if he blows the Atlanta situation it will be a disaster. He backed into one of the greatest situations.

        2
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      • CT

        7 years ago

        AA has had plenty of opportunities to blower up the Braves very good farm system, but hasn’t done anything drastic yet. The Braves have a chance to be long-term power in the NL under AA. I hope his time with the Dodgers has helped him learn from mistakes he made previously.

        2
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      • adshadbolt

        7 years ago

        Why does everyone hate on AA so much he’s a very good executive, he built up the team in Toronto to get close and they had a good Fran system so he used it to take a shot and they got into the playoffs and it just didn’t work out they ran into CLE and couldn’t get it done as a Toronto fan would you have rather had that post season or some kids who if you look st most of the prospects he’s traded only about 3 have worked out, none of the prospects in the tulo deal have done anything the headliner Hoffman is on the verge of being dfa’d, only Barreto from the Donaldson trade is still with the A’s and there are still major questions on his ability in the big leagues, Norris and Boyd have been good for the tigers but would wouldn’t consider them high impact players, if your mad about the RA Dickey deal, darnau’d hasn’t done anything that would have helped the jays, yes syndergard hurts but no one knew he was going to be that good look at all the evaluations and reports on him at the time, there were several teams who were willing to pay for Dickey so they had to give value to get value. And if your a braves fan that hates him are u mad because he won’t go trade all your prospects for 30 year old declining players or are you mad because he won’t go sign machado or Harper because most of those decisions aren’t made by him the braves are owned by a company not a singular owner, AA can’t milk or convince the company like he could an owner to give him all this money to go sign big free agents. That’s the owners decision not his. I really don’t see why all these people on here hate the guy so much is he the greatest gm no but is he a bad one no not by any means I can think of 20 worse gms

        1
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        • its_happening

          7 years ago

          Plenty of reasons to explain why AA is overrated. It started when he was compared to Pat Gillick days after being hired. From there he had his ups and downs. Being overrated doesn’t mean he’s a bad GM.

          Reply
  11. gino 2

    7 years ago

    The Nationals should do themselves a big favour and sign Dallas K. Then trade for Corey K from the Indians. Then they should do the unthinkable and trade Scherzer to the Yankees. Get G. Torres to play 2nd bass, D. Bettence, C. Fraizer and another prospect or two for Scherzer.
    Then once that deal is made sign Corbin too.
    Then trade for Greinke and Goldsmyth from Arizona including Zimmerman and Roark in the deal.
    Then find a taker for Stratsberg. I am sure he would fetch a great return as well. The pitching might not be as strong as it would be with Scherzer and Strats but, the team would improve as would its prospects.
    They would still need another pitcher or two but, they may get one in the Strats deal and another deal could then be made too. Go into the season with 5 new hired guns!
    Radical changes but, it’s time they win the division and advance to the World Series.
    Greinke
    P. Corbin
    Corey K
    Dallas K
    ??????, Joe Ross
    Would make a nice starting lineup too.
    Loosing Scherzer would be a huge blow but, the amount of prospects gained would benefit the Nats in the long run!!!
    Get R Done Rizzo!!

    Reply
    • yonkers22

      7 years ago

      Wait…you’re serious?

      6
      Reply
    • yanks02026

      7 years ago

      LOL.. Yankees aren’t giving up Torres for Mad Max

      3
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      • Markdashark

        7 years ago

        Well his post was rediculous, but yes they probably would give up Torres in a second for scherzer

        6
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        • Melchez

          7 years ago

          His reply was just as silly. Who wouldn’t trade Torres for Scherzer? Well, besides a loony Yankee fan. They would instead trade Wade for Scherzer and ask the Nationals to pay both contracts.

          6
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        • Markdashark

          7 years ago

          Nah I think for Torres the Yankees would require the nationals to resign Harper for 400+ million, trade him for Torres and absorb the entire Harper contract because god ordained him to be a yankee. They may have to add scherzer as a throw in as well

          3
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        • yanks02026

          7 years ago

          Actually the loony people are you.. Mad Max is the best pitcher in the game but the Yankees aren’t gonna giving up a player who is only 21 and has a upside of being a superstar…

          Also pretty sure the Yankees wouldn’t want to pay Scherzer 42 million per year thru 2021

          3
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        • Markdashark

          7 years ago

          Once again if you don’t understand that the Yankees would absolutely give up Torres for scherzer then you are already beyond help… I don’t have the time or patience to explain common knowledge to you… good day

          5
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        • thegreatcerealfamine

          7 years ago

          Please don’t lump this guy in with all Yankees fans. If the Nats were crazy enough to do a Max/Torres trade one for one Cashman would, and should jump on it in a heartbeat.

          8
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        • jdgoat

          7 years ago

          Stop Yanks. You’re only digging more of a hole

          1
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        • billneftleberg

          7 years ago

          Actually no they wouldn’t Madashark.there’s this little thing called a salary threshold where Scherzer would cost them upwards of 60 million a year by the end of his contract. And its not leciThin couldn’t be signed for a fraction of what Washington owed Scherzer. Educate yourself

          Reply
        • Slevin

          7 years ago

          Who gave this nut any love?

          1
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        • Slevin

          7 years ago

          What are you babbling about? None of that is true…

          Reply
        • yanks02026

          7 years ago

          No I’m not at all. You’re absolutely crazy to give up a 21 year old for a mid 30s pitcher no matter how good he is.

          1
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        • yanks02026

          7 years ago

          @cereal,

          So you’d give up a young possibly superstar with 6 years of control for a mid 30s pitcher making over 40 million a year.

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        • Phil T

          7 years ago

          You don’t trade your 20 something all-star 2nd baseman for the next 15 years for ANY pitcher. Max has got 3 good years left before his arm gets tired from all those innings and he becomes hittable.

          1
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        • larry48

          7 years ago

          maybe less, Max go lite up in several of his games in 2018. When he was good he was really good but when not he got hit hard.

          Reply
  12. slider32

    7 years ago

    Yanks could land Corbin and another starter and go with a 6 man rotation, most teams don’t use 5 starters for the season anymore even when they try to do it.

    1
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    • Begamin

      7 years ago

      Right? What im hoping for is Corbin and Kikuchi. Always wanted the Yankees to get Tanaka a buddy. That way he can try to mentor the guy and ease his transition from from Japan to the States, from tips on everyday life differences to baseball.
      But, I wouldnt be shaking my head at a trade for Kluber that still lets you keep Andujar.

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  13. Markdashark

    7 years ago

    I keep reading people on here fantasizing about their team getting Madison bumgarner for cheap..

    I think people are far underestimating his value…

    First of all if I am a playoff team like the astros, Yankees, etc. and I had the choice to acquire 1 year of madbum or James Paxton, I land Bumgarner all day and tomorrow. I don’t want to turn that into a huge debate, the reasoning should be obvious. Madbum has proven to be one of the top starters I the game and even better in the post season, he has had two years in which he has had injuries. Still posting a very respectable 3.26 era in the 120 innings he did manage to pitch last season. He is only 29 and as far as we know, ready to start next season healthy. He could be a huge asset to a World Series winning team if traded to a team like Houston or the Yankees.

    I would estimate his value would be much more than just a florial.

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    • thegreatcerealfamine

      7 years ago

      Paxton has more than one year of control…

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      • Markdashark

        7 years ago

        I am well aware of that thank you. He also has no postseason resume versus madbum being mr.october lol, he also has never pitched more than 160 innings. He also has had an era above 3.50, 3 out of the last 4 seasons.

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        • lasershow45

          7 years ago

          You don’t get to bestow Reggie Jackson’s nickname on Madison. That’s insane. Get out of here with that nonsense. Give him an original name. Like Madbum. He’ll never be Mr. October.

          Signed,

          A Red Sox fan.

          5
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        • ABStract

          7 years ago

          I didn’t realize you were the bestower and keeper of nicknames…
          If anyone has earned the name Mr October since Reggie, it’s Madbum.
          Does Reggie have the highest batting average in WS history? Cuz Madbum has the lowest ERA and as a pitcher, effects the game far more than a batter.
          Did Reggie play on short rest to win a WS? Did he play out of position? No?
          Oh, he just had a good rep 30+ years prior to Bums unimaginable dominance?
          World war 1 was called “the Great War” until a greater one came along…

          1
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      • Markdashark

        7 years ago

        Let me just give everyone a little clue here…

        Last 5 seasons….

        Pitcher 1 – 29 yrs old
        Era. Innings
        2.98. 217
        2.93. 218
        2.74. 226
        3.32. 111
        3.26. 130

        Career era 3.03
        Career postseason – 2.11 era 102 innings

        Pitcher #2 30 years old

        Era. Innings
        3.04. 74
        3.90. 67
        3.79. 121
        2.98. 136
        3.76. 160

        Career era 3.42

        No postseason exp.

        Pitcher 1 has one year remaining
        Pitcher 2 has two years

        I am probably a World Series contender next season, who am I taking???

        4
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        • flippinbats79

          7 years ago

          Have these ERAs been league adjusted? Because once you do you’ll probably find they are about the same.

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        • Markdashark

          7 years ago

          Really because with inter league play, I don’t see much reason for league adjustment anymore. Also
          If you adjust for ballpark Paxton is way worse. When he is not pitching in Seattle, he is not even really an average pitcher.

          2
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        • CT

          7 years ago

          I’m taking the guy who showed in 2017 and 2018 that he can dominate a game with double-digit strikeouts, Paxton.

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        • Markdashark

          7 years ago

          Oh good choice…

          Strike outs are great dude lmao

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        • Markdashark

          7 years ago

          You tell me era is a bad way to measure a pitchers value and then you imply strike outs are a good way to measure a pitchers value lmao. Strike outs provide absolutely 0 value. A pitcher who pitches 9 innings and gives up 1 run with 0 strike outs is much much more valuable than a pitcher who goes 9 gives up 4 runs with 18 strike outs

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        • Cashford64

          7 years ago

          Agreed. Bumgarner is going to be for a team that is set to go all the way specifically in 2019. He has a proven track record, exceptional postseason experience, and his contract will break nobody’s bank.

          Is there a risk? Of course, but isn’t that true to some degree with any player? Who knew Sonny Gray would be such a disaster for the Yankees? Who knew Verlander would go from good to completely unstoppable for the Astros?

          Anyone, people need to stop acting like players aren’t traded every single deadline as 3-month rentals. If you want the pieces to put you over the top, you are going to have to pay for them. That’s it. Bottom line, Bumgarner shouldn’t be given away cheap.

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        • Markdashark

          7 years ago

          Paxton’s era away from the friendly confines of Seattle is 3.87 on the career.

          1
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        • JoshHosh

          7 years ago

          This comment makes no sense. Which league you are in ABSOLUTELY matters. There is not really more interleague play than before it is just spread out throughout the year as opposed to in one clump in May and June like it used to be. A starting pitcher likely only has a few interleague starts per year.

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        • lasershow45

          7 years ago

          Verlander was stopped in the ALCS.

          Reply
        • Cashford64

          7 years ago

          Yeah, he was finally stopped a year and a half later, by the eventual WS champs. Whatever team gets Bumgarner won’t have him for that long, they’ll only need him to get them to the playoffs and then the world series THAT season.

          2
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        • CT

          7 years ago

          With the skill level of current MLB hitters, pitching to contact is a terrible plan. If a pitcher can’t strike out hitters, that means more balls put in play and more potential for hard contact.

          Strikeouts aren’t everything and that’s certainly not the only thing I care about. Between Bumgarner and Paxton, I’ll take the guy that has the greater potential to limit baserunners at this point in his career. That’s James Paxton.

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        • Markdashark

          7 years ago

          Really so sacrificing pitch placement for strike outs is a good thing?

          Paxton gave up 23 bombs in 160 innings last year. Clap clap clap

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        • ffrhb14Sox

          7 years ago

          Most hitters today cant even beat a shift, have very little skill for situational hitting, cant bunt and even without a pitcher trying for strikeouts will still strikeout. Hitting tiday is too much about the longball and not better than in the past.

          2
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    • CT

      7 years ago

      ERA is a misleading way to assess a pitcher’s value. Teheran for the Braves posted a 3.94ERA, but was terrible in 2018.

      Bumgarner has seen his velocity and strikeouts decline each of the last two years. Decline in velocity and more balls in play is not a good recipe for success. Maybe it has something to do with the injuries, maybe he’s starting to wear down decline. No one is overpaying for past years, when recent numbers throw up red flags.

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      • Markdashark

        7 years ago

        Era is not a perfect measurement, but all around and in general it is still probably one of the best for giving a general idea of the pitchers performance, as well as war.

        And yes Tehran’s era was almost 4 and yes that is not very good…

        1
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        • RunDMC

          7 years ago

          2018: Julio Teheran’s FIP was 4.83.

          FIP isn’t the best indicator either, but speaks a lot more to Teheran’s effectiveness (or lackthereof) than not. He’s about been a pitcher that’s consistently outperformed FIP – at least some have said – as evidenced by his ERA that you’d expect to be higher than it actually was. partially because a spike in BB/9 and downturn in SO/9 (less control and less Ks).

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        • larry48

          7 years ago

          Tehran’s era was not helped by poor defense by Atlanta infield and outfield. League average or below average

          Reply
        • joepanikatthedisco

          7 years ago

          Dan Jennings consistently outperforms his FIP too. Probably why the Brewers cut him

          Reply
        • CT

          7 years ago

          Not sure what you’re talking about with the Braves defense. The Braves infield was one of the top defenses in all of MLB. Outfield defense wasn’t as good, but still solid overall. Teheran’s problem is there isn’t a strong defense for balls hit over fence.

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        • RunDMC

          7 years ago

          I guess the league averages 3 Gold Gloves in their lineup or better.

          Reply
    • Central Valley

      7 years ago

      Exactly. Even after 2018, I’d put MdBum on the mound over just about anyone in MLB in a playoff game.

      1
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  14. walls17

    7 years ago

    I’d like to see kikuchi end up in San Diego.

    2
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  15. Drew Waters Bat

    7 years ago

    On a side note what do you think it would take to get pudges son from sf?

    Reply
    • ABStract

      7 years ago

      With as few good prospects as the Giants have right now, I’d say more than you’d expect
      He’s the future at this point

      1
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    • aceofrainbows

      7 years ago

      Giants are going to place a huge amount of value on Dereck Rodruigez. He’s good. He has 6 years of control. If someone for some reason hired me to be the general manager of the Giants right now, DRod would be one of the team’s only untouchable major leaguers.

      1
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  16. justin-turner overdrive

    7 years ago

    Greg Bird and Sonny Gray would be NTC candidates if they were on any other team.

    You are never, ever, EVER trading them for a postseason clutch performer like MadBum.

    It’s Florial, Abreu and Adams for Bumgarner or GTFO.

    (FYI all Yankees prospects except Florial are wildly overrated FYI)

    5
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    • Lefty Grove’s right hand

      7 years ago

      I wish the A’s got Florial instead of Fowler or Mateo. I wasn’t too happy with that Gray trade.

      Reply
      • Markdashark

        7 years ago

        Well you should be because gray turned out to be complete garbage lol

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        • JoshHosh

          7 years ago

          Gray isn’t garbage, he just can’t pitch in Yankee Stadium. Look at the splits.

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        • Lefty Grove’s right hand

          7 years ago

          Yeah he’s not garbage. The Yankees was a terrible fit for him. I think he just crumpled under the huge pressure and expectations. And pitching in one of the best hitter friendly stadiums did not help.

          6
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  17. driftcat28 2

    7 years ago

    I wonder what sort of “larger deal” Cashman has discussed that includes Gray. It’d be interesting to see him packaged with a few prospects to return a stud SP or reliever

    1
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    • Old User Name

      7 years ago

      He had been discussed in the Paxton deal.

      1
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  18. strostro

    7 years ago

    No

    Reply
  19. Markdashark

    7 years ago

    Also yankee fans, can someone please enlighten me about Florial?

    I see good scouting reports, high ceiling, possible 5 tool player. Etc etc..

    Now weren’t similar things said about players like Moncada, Rusney Castillo, Mateo??

    I mean you never know with these types right? And Florial just finished his what 3rd year in the Yankees organization and he is still in A ball, right. He isn’t even producing numbers at that level that inspire a second look yet. He was finally promoted to high A last year and hit .260 and has had absolutely no homerun power yet and doesn’t appear to be an incredible base stealing threat. At like 20 years old Rafael devers, Xander bogaerts, gleyber Torres were major league ready and had great success in the upper minor leagues. This kid is 20 and is stuck in A ball for 3 years with no success and nothing to his name but potential because of his athleticism.

    Why is this guy so good?

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  20. mrnatewalter

    7 years ago

    I’m curious what the Yankees can actually get for Sonny Gray.

    If I’m a GM, I’m more inclined to sign someone like Anibal Sanchez (who was better than Gray on all accounts last year) for a cheaper contract AND I don’t have to give up any talent for him.

    Honestly, if you’re the Yankees, pick some 27/28 year old reliever in AAA ball with okay upside and take him for Gray.

    Here’s a random example:

    SF gets Sonny Gray
    NYY gets Ray Black

    And, frankly, I think the Giants are giving up too much.

    2
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    • billneftleberg

      7 years ago

      Say black who throws hard but can’t make the sad sack giants with the worst farm system in baseball now that Seattle has refilled the cupboard? Are you serious? Farhan has his work cut out for him I appears Giants fans have collectively lost their minds

      1
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      • mrnatewalter

        7 years ago

        Yeah, the Giants might say no to moving a 28-year-old flame throwing reliever for 1-year of Sonny Gray who’s owed more than a dozen SPs who are better than him in FA.

        Gray’s value, after you combine his contract situation, his performance, and Cashman’s comments, is one of the worst in the game for controllable players right now.

        There’s literally zero reason to think the Yankees can get much value for him.

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      • mrnatewalter

        7 years ago

        WHO do you think the Yankees are going to get for Sonny Gray? If you think it’s anything remotely valuable, perhaps it is you that’s lost your mind.

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        • billneftleberg

          7 years ago

          A couple of prospects for gray. No more no less. But that’s more than the Giants system has. Sorry but until Madbum shows he can be the madbum of old. If rather have Gray (out of Yankee stadium like maybe Oakland or petco. even pittsburgh. Considering what the Giants will be this year madbum would need pitch like Degrom to have a .500 season this year and he ain’t that guy anymore. OR THE GIANTS WOULD SIGN HIM

          Reply
        • Jean Matrac

          7 years ago

          Wrong. The Giant’s farm system is ranked low, 24th I think, not because they don’t have any prospects, but because they lack depth.

          The very fact that you would take Gray over Bum calls into question your baseball acumen. Over Gray’s seasons in Oakland, and his first in NY when he actually pitched well there, he compiled a 115 ERA+. Over the last 2 seasons, while dealing with/coming back from injuries, Bum posted a 123 ERA+. Considering that Bum is only about 3 months older than Gray, only a fool would pick Gray over Bum.

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  21. billneftleberg

    7 years ago

    Actually no they wouldn’t Madashark.there’s this little thing called a salary threshold where Scherzer would cost them upwards of 60 million a year by the end of his contract. And its not as if corbin couldn’t be signed for a fraction of what Washington owed Scherzer. Educate yourself

    Reply
  22. brandons-3

    7 years ago

    I feel Corbin entered this offseason likely expecting to be a Yankee, but will wind up a Phillie after they offer him “stupid” money.

    Reply
  23. billneftleberg

    7 years ago

    And as good as Madbum was he’s not the same pitcher. Buy a calendar why don’t you?.The Giants are going to be a last place team for 3-5 years so why waste Madbum

    1
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    • Cashford64

      7 years ago

      Not the same pitcher? All you can say is that he’s missed time. When he’s pitched, he’s still been very good. Where are people getting that he’s all of a sudden horrible at age 29?

      And no, the Padres will still be the last place team. They have yet to prove they know what they’re doing, even with all their supposed excellent prospects.

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      • billneftleberg

        7 years ago

        He’s not horrible but he wasn’t madbum of old either and it’s not just one year it’s been two. He needs to prove he can stay healthy first

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      • billneftleberg

        7 years ago

        Maybe if they don’t trade for Syndergaard as expected. But I see Farhan cleaning house.I See the Giants and Seattle as the 2 worst teams in baseball next year.but at least Seattle has a number of great prospects now….The giants not so much

        1
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        • aceofrainbows

          7 years ago

          Seattle has one prospect in the top 100 (Sheffield). Giants have two (Bart, Ramos). As a giants fan, the best I can realistically hope for is that the braves trade one of their many top 100 pitching prospects straight up for Bumgarner. That might be an overpay by Atlanta, but I hope it happens.

          1
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        • billneftleberg

          7 years ago

          Sorry the Mariners with the Cano trade have 3. And Kelenic is better than any giant prospect by far

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        • Jbigz12

          7 years ago

          Neftleberg you are quickly establishing yourself as a fool. I’m an orioles fan and there’s no possible way you could say the giants or mariners are a worse team than what we are putting on the field next season. There’s little to no shot that orioles or royals aren’t the worst team in baseball. The marlins are horrible as well. Those teams are easily worse than the giants or mariners. Honestly I see the mariners being better than a lot of those teams and I don’t even think they finish in the basement of ALW. Texas has no pitching, even with Seattle’s trades they have more of a rotation.

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        • billneftleberg

          7 years ago

          Jbigz the Orioles. Who are they? Do they still exist. The Orioles have been mismanaged for years so I really don’t count them as a major league team, not even Orioles fans see them as major league quality

          They are A laughing stock 62 Mets level bad maybe it’s hyperbole but they are not a major league team

          Reply
    • larry48

      7 years ago

      Padres will be worse than Giants, and Arizona may really be bad if they trade Greinke and Goldschmidt.

      1
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  24. Cashford64

    7 years ago

    It’s not been his “health.” It’s been two freak accidents, one with a motorbike and one when a ball hit his pitching hand. There’s been nothing to suggest his body is wearing down.

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  25. billneftleberg

    7 years ago

    Then why has his peripherals declined too answer me that?

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  26. billneftleberg

    7 years ago

    A couple of prospects for gray. No more no less. But that’s more than the Giants system has. Sorry but until Madbum shows he can be the madbum of old. Id rather have Gray (out of Yankee stadium like maybe Oakland or petco. even pittsburgh. Considering what the Giants will be this year madbum would need pitch like Degrom to have a .500 season this year and he ain’t that guy anymore. OR THE GIANTS WOULD SIGN HIM

    The fact that they haven’t or won’t after all he did for them speaks volumes

    2
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    • Central Valley

      7 years ago

      Are you really comparing Gray to Madison Bumgarner? Are you out of your mind? There is not a single pitcher on the Yankees pitching staff that has the “big game mettle” that Bumgarner has.

      If Bumgarner was on the mound for the Yankees last year, they would have won their Wild Card game.

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      • petefrompp

        7 years ago

        I’m biased because I’m a Giants fan- but anyone down on Bumgarner is really wrong on this one. Two freak accidents have caused a more top 30 pitcher in the league- but the local info- bum has said he didnt recover his grip strength last year after the broken hand. Said he will address it in the offseason – probably by clearing a forest and moving a couple of mountains.

        Dude is a stud- 29, 6-5 250lbs- and he is not soft at all. Plus he actually knows how to pitch. If the Giants dont get what they want in the offseason, someone will give up the bank by trade deadline when he comes roaring back.

        And to say the post season heroics don’t matter in analytics is missing the point- the guy is a readXXs and a huge competitor – he doesn’t have an once of fear or doubt – thats why he is special- he has the physical gifts, is pitching savvy, and has the drive to dominate- a fairly rare combo.

        3
        Reply
        • JKB 2

          7 years ago

          Good points. However him saying he has not gotten his grip back is a bit of a concern until he shows otherwise.

          Reply
        • Central Valley

          7 years ago

          Probably the most accurate comment I’ve read. I completely agree. Bumgarner will rebound to full strength after this offseason.

          2
          Reply
        • billneftleberg

          7 years ago

          Petefrompp the problem there is, even if you’re right. The Giants will likely be the worst team in baseball next year so Madbum won’t put up numbers and being a free agent to be won’t get all that much.

          Even Degrom was only 10-9

          Reply
        • Jean Matrac

          7 years ago

          Bumgarner’s hand was broken when he got hit in his last ST start. He made his first start on June 5th. It is not surprising at all that his hand strength was diminished from the time his hand was in a cast, and the short recovery/rehab time. So it’s really not expecting much to think, after an off-season of conditioning, that he’ll show up in ST at full strength.

          1
          Reply
        • Bruin1012

          7 years ago

          You do realize win-loss record is a horrible way to predict value. If Madbum rebounds and his peripherals say he has rebounded he will get plenty of money. His win-Loss record will be completely immaterial.

          2
          Reply
        • billneftleberg

          7 years ago

          youre right it is a horrible way to assess value bruin but your leaving out some very important factors

          one) if you trade for madbum you are getting him for one season and then youre going to need to pay him for all he did for the giants, he will expect that and deserve it and the acquiring team is looking for Value not to pay for what he did for the giants

          and the Giants wont trade him for peanuts. its that double whammy that GMs steer clear of.

          if you were a gm of another team wouldnt you rather wait and pay rental prices on a guy with a poor record (even if its through no fault of his own) and decide for yourself whether to sign him later?

          the giants are only considering trading him because they dont want to pay him the contract hes earned, cashman looked and said I love the pitcher but said I dont want that double whammy . so why would another gm

          as i said if the giants are gonna give him away cheap like The Yankees are doing with Gray then hell yeah count me in. but the giants arent doing that, they want full value plus

          Reply
      • billneftleberg

        7 years ago

        Learn to read I was answering his question. I said Gray was worth a couple of prospects you dolt. Then i answered his question about madbum. Those are two different things

        No wonder you giant fans think Madbum now is worth so much. You can’t read period let alone understand a calender. You are the worst team in baseball and have a barren farm system and some of you are illiterate.

        And the Yankees did win their Wildcard game ther by demonstrating you are indeed illiterate or you have been living in a cave.

        Poor Farhan Zahaidi

        1
        Reply
        • Central Valley

          7 years ago

          petefrompp: excellent analysis on Bumgarner.

          1
          Reply
        • Jean Matrac

          7 years ago

          “… until Madbum shows he can be the madbum of old. Id rather have Gray…”

          Your words. Plus, calling someone a dolt is classic pot and kettle.

          Verlander and Bumgarner are very similar in stature. Both are capable of, and have thrown a lot of innings. Verlander lost velocity, his K’s were trending down, and he was thought to be in decline. Now at 36 he’s added velocity, Ks are up, his WAR was 6.8 and he finished 2nd in the AL CY voting in 2018.

          The Giants know Bum and his physical condition better than anyone. If no team wants to gamble on his future potential, a la Verlander, they are perfectly content holding on to him for now.

          Verlander offers a model of a potential Bumgarner bounce back. If he he does your pronouncements of Bumgarner’s demise will expose your true depth of knowledge about baseball.

          BTW it’s Zaidi, not “Zahaidi”.

          1
          Reply
        • billneftleberg

          7 years ago

          Tad read it again. I said I’d rather have Gray outside of Yankee stadium. On the road Gray was fine. Madbum is going to want a huge deal and deservedly so, for all he’s done for the Giants but he’s not that pitcher anymore so yes if I’m another team looking for a pitcher in trade I take Gray all day long.

          They Yankees are giving Gray away. The Giants want a ransom for madbum. You do the math.

          Reply
        • Bruin1012

          7 years ago

          As good as Madbum has been he was never as good as Verlander and he never had the Velocity of Verlander I’m not sure Verlander is a good comp for anybody. I do believe that Madbum can bounce back but don’t expect Verlander bounce back numbers.

          Reply
        • Jean Matrac

          7 years ago

          I don’t need to read it again,. I got it the first time. Maybe you should re-read my post. To reiterate you’re a fool to take Gray over Bum. Stats show that even away from Yankee Stadium that Bumgarner is the superior pitcher. And that’s comparing Gray’s best years to Bumgarner’s worst. Plus Bum is only 3 months older I would guess you were in the extreme minority of baseball fans that would take Gray, even away from Yankee Stadium, over Bum. And I guarantee no team in baseball would do that.

          We don’t know if they are giving Gray away. That’s your assumption, and it’s a big one.

          You’re undervaluing what a season of Bumgarner is worth. It could mean winning the division or even the WS.

          1
          Reply
        • Jean Matrac

          7 years ago

          “…Madbum…was never as good as Verlander…”

          Your reading comprehension is poor. I never said Bumgarner was as good as Verlander. A comparison of the two is irrelevant. Since you obviously missed the point I’ll explain it to you.

          Verlander appeared to be in decline. His velocity, K rates, and other stats were down primarily because of injury. He has regained velocity, increased his strikeouts, and his WAR this season was close to the highest he’s ever had.

          People are saying Bumgarner’s value is down because his velocity. K rates, and peripherals are in decline. But Bum has been injured in the last two seasons. If it’s possible that Verlander can return to his previous excellence, then it’s also possible for Bumgarner to return to his. Their numbers relative to each other has nothing to do with it.

          1
          Reply
  27. billneftleberg

    7 years ago

    Central valley the idiot who said if the Yankees had madbum they would have won the Wildcard game last year.

    Your opinion isn’t worth much central Valley

    At least not until you do some research.

    Reply
    • Central Valley

      7 years ago

      The idiot? You get triggered too easily. Get some counseling brother.

      Okay, not the WILD CARD GAME, they lost because the Yankees do not have a big game pitcher like Bumgarner. My point is still the same.

      2
      Reply
    • Central Valley

      7 years ago

      Maybe you comparing Gray to Madison Bumgarner is the one who needs to spend the weekend doing reasearch.

      Verlander was supposedly too injured and “lost his stuff” too. How did that work out for the Astros? Madison Bumgarner may go to Houston as well come the trade deadline. Who are the Yankees going to put in the mound? Good luck

      1
      Reply
      • billneftleberg

        7 years ago

        let me spell it out for you then.central valley. I love Madbum, he was a stud. and he deserverve thaat rich contract that the Giants OWE HIM for all hes done. but no the Giants are trying to trade him for a kings ransom instead of giving him what hes earned.

        so yes. if im the GM of another team and I can have Gray for pennies on the dollar since away from yankee Stadium he reverts to what he was.OR pay the Giants a kings ransom. and then have to give a declining Madbum the money he richly deserves but got screwed out of. I trade for Gray all day long

        GMS arent santa claus they want the best deal for their franchise. and Sonny Gray at 20 cents on the dollar is a better bargain than giving the Giants a ransom in trade and THEN having to pay Madbum the contract the Giants Owed him

        and if im Madbum I scream very loudly if I dont get it

        1
        Reply
  28. dust44

    7 years ago

    Domingo Acevedo, Sonny Gray and a lottery ticket prospect for Bumgarner. After they sign Corbin. Push CC to the 6th man/long relief and maybe even extend the big mans career a few years.

    Reply
  29. IjustloveBaseball

    7 years ago

    Because of his past shoulder issues, Kikuchi could be a candidate for a Kenta Maeda-esque deal. Somewhat lesser guaranteed money, but loads of incentives. I do think he will get more guaranteed annually than Maeda’s 3.125m/year though.

    Reply
  30. national pastime

    7 years ago

    Yankees haven’t had success with NL free agent pitchers I hope Corbin goes to the Phillies. I’d rather deal for Bauer.

    Reply
  31. Fire Jon Daniels

    7 years ago

    If the Yankees are just giving Gray away I hope the rangers take a flyer

    Reply

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