First baseman Paul Goldschmidt, he of the career .297/.398/.532 line, was one of the most coveted assets on the offseason trade market. After a bitterly disappointing end to the Diamondbacks season, in which the club won just eight out of their final 28 games after staking a claim to top of the division on August 30th, a full-scale shuffling of parts was sure to be in order. The club was almost certainly set to lose ace Patrick Corbin, who this week signed a monster $140MM deal with Washington, plus center-field stalwart A.J. Pollock, who, despite several injury-marred campaigns, posted a robust 14.9 fWAR in his final five seasons with the team. And flimsy depth on the 25-man roster and in the upper minors paired with a system devoid of high-impact talent to offer a mostly inauspicious outlook in seasons to come.
Was it finally to time to cash in on the organization’s most valued trade chip? The answer, in the end, was a resounding “yes”: On Wednesday, the organization finally agreed to a package with the 31-year-old’s most oft-rumored suitor, the St. Louis Cardinals. 25-year-old right-hander Luke Weaver and catcher Carson Kelly, 24, are the two most notable pieces going back to Arizona in the deal; Andy Young, a 24-year-old minor league infielder, and a Competitive Balance Round B pick are also part of the return for the D’Backs.
Goldschmidt, of course, is entering the final year of a contract that will pay him just $14.5MM in 2019. His presence figures to move defensive yo-yo Matt Carpenter back to his original home at third base, where the 33-year-old has, encouragingly, graded out as mostly above average with the glove in limited time over the last two years after a series of dreadful campaigns in the middle portion of the decade.
Infielder Jedd Gyorko and 1B/COF Jose Martinez, then, would seem to be left bench-ridden, and could be prime trade chips in the weeks to come. Speculatively, major bullpen upgrades could be in order — as a whole, the unit posted an abysmal 4.50 xFIP and 4.34 BB/9 last season, both of which ranked in the bottom five across the league. Though the departing package was significant, the Redbirds are left with a most prominent feather in their collective cap: with nine big-league-tested starting pitchers in the fold for next season, and a super surplus at catcher — the immortal Yadier Molina, plus top prospect Andrew Knizner — the Cards figure to lose very little in present-day value.
For the Diamondbacks, the return may have eclipsed even their wildest hopes, with one executive reportedly dubbing the package a “boatload.” Weaver and Kelly come with a combined 11 seasons of team control, and each should project around league average in the upcoming campaign. Kelly, a former top 50 prospect, seems especially intriguing — with the offensive baseline at catcher approaching its all-time nadir (catchers slashed a putrid .232/.304/.372 as a whole last season, for an 84 wRC+), the 24-year-old needs only to supplement his sterling defense with marginal offensive production to become an above-average big leaguer.
So, how would you grade this deal for each club?
B for Cardinals. They got a great first baseman for one year. A for dbacks because not many teams need a first baseman and are contending in 2019. They got probably the best offer they were going to get
It’s all good except Goldy now has to live in St Louis.
St. Louis is a nice city.
I gave both a B. It was tough I couldve given both A’s.
The poll isnt working on the app, just so you know.
Polls are always just a measure of B votes.
They should sign a 3b and put Carpenter at 2b. Wong is not good!
I’ll take light hitting at 2B for the defense Wong gives any day. Especially on a team that has performed very poorly on defense the past few years. 2B is one of the lightest hitting positions anyways. Only C and CF accept as low of an offensive output at 2B so give me Wong’s gold glove caliber defense all day.
Besides, Wong posts a decent AVG and OBP most of the time.
People just dont understand what defensive runs saved means.
Did you post this as an invitation to get roasted?
I’d vote yes. There is no way someone in good faith could post that.
Anyone who thinks Carpenter is even close to capable as a 2nd baseman is delusional.
League average offensive hitter, elite defensive player. Improved under more contact orientated approach later in the season.
I honestly think it’s a very good trade for both.
A for the Dbacks as they get controllable talent that has a chance to be above league average, even if not anything spectacular.
C+ for Cards as they get a guy who should be a stud hitter in the middle of the order. However, it keeps the lineup right hand dominant. Also, this trade only becomes good if Goldy is great and signs an extension. If he is either bad or even good, but doesn’t sign an extension, the only way this helps the Cards is if they make a deep playoff run in 2019.
I’m a die hard Cardinals fan and would have rather seen them sign Moustakas for something like 2 or 3 years at 8-10M AAV, or package better assets for a more controllable player.
The article was ridiculous in that the writer did not evaluate the trade for the Cardinals. The old adage is who ever gets the best player usually wins the trade. Goldschmidt is a great player and will elevate the Cardinals , while the Cardinals did not trade a player that cant be replaced. Cardinals crushed it.. Goldschmidt will now find out what it is like to play for a real baseball city for the next 6 or 7 years. Love playing golf at Desert Mountain in the winter time though.
I’m only giving the Cards a B because they will probably only have Goldy for one season. If he had 2 seasons left on his contract, I’d cal it an A++
I’m giving it an A+. Absolutely love the deal for the Cardinals!
And as Goldy said everyone would love a chance to play in St Louis. Greatest organization in all of baseball. Always has always will be!
Ditto!!!
I give the Cardinals a giant ass on this trade. This has nothing to do with the talent of their acquisition but more what they gave up for a one year rental. Many people will say they can just re-sign him but we all know how the Cardinals do business a guy like Goldschmidt is going to come and at least a five-year deal for at least 100 million and that is not the Cardinals bag.
Double the money, tack on about 3 years, and your sort of in the ballpark of what he gets on the open market
Think you and others are going to be surprised about future long-term expensive contracts.
It’s happening slowly. But as more teams get stuck with contracts that sabotage their payrolls for years, it’s scaring teams away. Look at Corbin – the best FA pitcher on the market this year. While over a dozen teams inquired, only 3 were in him…..and we find that the Yankees never got to the point where they made a formal offer.
The entire salary compensation system in MLB will be overhauled in the next 5 years. Brainstorming discussions have already begun.
No it won’t. The players union has to sign off on any ‘overhaul’ and there’s not enough flaming idiots in the union that they’d surpress their own earnings potential.
Everything you said is based on unfounded speculation and wishful thinking. You’re basically arguing that because Corbin got the kind of contract you claim teams are going away from, that it proves teams won’t give out those kinds of deals in the future…
Theories need to be made to fit facts, not vice versa
Naturally the players union are in on the negotiations……
Many guys in their first 6 years are underpaid.
To you petie, everyone is ignorant. By the time you find out, it’ll be a done deal.
You have no clue.
They’re underpaid because they’re not members of the union when they’re forced to sign those contracts
The union bargained away the negotiating rights of non-members in exchange for a larger payout to actual members
I have a clue, and lucky for you I’m willing to share, since you seem to have misplaced yours…
Yeah 5 years and 100 million is WAY light on what it would take to extend him.
I gave the Cards a B. I love Goldy but didnt think they needed to prioritize 1b. But they gave up guys that didnt have a future in their org. I gave the D-Backs an A because they got some useful controllable guys.
I’m a Cubs fan and I still would give the Cardinals an A on this trade… Goldy is one of if not THE best hitting first baseman in baseball. I have no idea how anyone could grade it lower than an A.. The guys they gave up aren’t a needed part of their team and they got a fantastic player in return. I wouldn’t call them the best organization in baseball by any means.. The cheating they were caught for and the fact that receive a competitive balance pick even though they obviously don’t need it hinders that. I will say though that the new Busch Stadium is very nice, I got great seats to watch the Cubs win the division a couple years ago and the fans were polite and I enjoyed talking with them.
Both teams should be happy about this trade…but the dbacks should be really happy…like the article says…a good catcher is hard to find these days..dbacks just got their catcher for the next 6 years…Weaver should benefit from the spacious ballparks…he will be a good back of the rotation guy…plus they got a draft pick..d.backs really win this trade…but the cardinals dealt from depth and got their 3 hole hitter…so win-win
I give the Cardinals an A because they didn’t give up anything critical to next season or really the future. Their rotation is now, in no specific order, Flaherty, Martinez, Mikolas, Wainwright, Reyes, Wacha and Gant. 3 have health questions but at least they have proven they can pitch well when healthy.
The heart of the lineup is now Goldschmidt, Carpenter and Ozuna which is pretty good. They could use an upgrade in CF, 2B or SS but they aren’t putting out filler.
If they lose Goldschmidt after the year it may tilt to Arizona’s favor if Weaver finds his grove over the long haul. Maybe Kelley surprises but he looks to be a solid back stop and not a superstar.
You must not be a cardinals fan…upgrade at those positions? Delong was second in Roy voting his rookie year…Bader almost won a gool glove in CF only playing half a season…Wong should be a gold Glover…every team can’t have the best players st every position…I think they are just fine
Not a Cardinals fan but a baseball fan overall. Like I said they aren’t fillers but they are not consistent either.
A for Cards, F for D’backs. Maybe that was too harsh. Time will tell. All I know is that the “headliners” are very questionable. The rules are simple: Never get involved in a land war in Asia, only slightly less well known is this: Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line, and finally: when the Cardinals are giving up on (trading off) a young pitching prospect, you better believe you’re getting garbage. Adding in that CK is a glove first (and only) catcher, it’s hard to give the D’backs any love on this trade. I suppose lottery tickets may be more valuable than a supplemental pick for extending Goldy a QO next off-season.
There are plenty of contenders that he made a lot of sense for, especially the Astros, as rumored.
Lol CK was drafted for his bat…he had to switch positions and his bat fell off a little bit…but he hit .280 in AAA…just because he had limited playing time in the MLB and didn’t bat that well doesn’t make him a bad hitter…backs got their catcher for the next 6 years
Any chance D-backs pursue Goldschmidt if he joins the free agent market?
Honestly I’d say no. The Dbacks are likely going into at least partial rebuild mode, so I can’t see them paying what it would take to bring him back
Why? Smith will be ready by 2020 presuming he can find the power he had at Virginia.
Doubtful they could afford him next year. That was really why they traded him in the first place
Not necessarily. They could have wanted to add years of control to their roster (even at the expense of 2019) and been planning to bring him back all along (see: the Yankees with Aroldis Chapman at the 2016 trade deadline)
Cards got the best player, Cards won the trade. Don’t care for polls because the medium will always show true. The “B” lot will always be #1 or #2 in total vote count.
Who will have the best player from the trade in 2020 tho?
The Diamondbacks, because where PG plays in 2020 is not part of the trade. Maybe the trade impacts his future choice slightly; who knows.
Because the range of outcomes is so varied for all the players going to the Diamondbacks, it remains to be seen if a competitive MLB team would want any of them on their 25-man roster. Strictly in terms of overall WAR for each team, Arizona likely ends up with more (but not guaranteed). The value for the Cards is clearly in moving multiple averagish players (which they have too many of) and consolidating them into a star. If you have a glut and don’t trade them, you’ll lose them to roster crunch eventually. Good for both teams.
coldbeer says the Cards won the trade because they got the best player involved in it even though it’s next to impossible to win a win-now trade unless you win the World Series while you have the player in question or he stays around and you can confidently say that he wouldn’t have signed with you if you hadn’t traded for him first.
Martinez would be a nice player for the M’s. Four years of control and can slot him in the DH in place of Cruz.
Stl added the best player on their roster.
Its a win now acquisition, that not only looks to break the streak of 3 post season misses, but also wants to add a ring while Yadi and Carp are still on the roster.
Extension at market value? Pass.
To me, it really depends on if they can re sign him. That’s a lot to give up for a 1 year rental. STL in recent history hasn’t been able to get top FAs or even keep their own. They got Fowler by severely outbidding Toronto and that proved to be disastrous. If they do re sign him, I like the move for the Cards, but it’s still not enough to catch the Cubs or Brewers.
No, it depends on how they do in 2019. By your logic the Chapman trade was even more disastrous.
The Chapman trade was crucial to bringing back a World Series. So it should never be looked at as anything other than a major part to a World Series. If the Cards do the same, well then they can think the same.
Was the Chapman trade really crucial to bringing back a World Series though? Unless you put some serious stock in his intangibles the Cubs would have at least made it to the World Series without Chapman and if they hadn’t come back in game 7 Chapman would have been blamed for the loss after giving up that home run to Rajai Davis.
You’re kidding right? Chapman was literally the only reliever Maddon trusted late in the year. He was completely gassed, which is why he gave up the Davis homer. But there’s absolutely zero question the Cubs don’t win the Championship without Chapman. It’s silly to argue otherwise, so please stop.
Again, the Cubs basically steamrolled their way to the NL pennant. Then in the World Series the only game in which Chapman arguably made a positive difference was Game 5.
They may not even made the World Series without him. That Dodgers Series was tough too. I’ve got no idea why you’re going out of your way to act like Chapman wasn’t a positive to their Championship run, but it’s just not true at all. The Cubs weakest link was their bullpen and if you remove by far their best bullpen arm in ‘16 there’s literally no way they win the Worls Series
Plus it’s just a dumb argument, because the only thing known was that the Cubs won the World Series with the team they had. That series with the Indians was so so tight that you remove one decent piece from the Cubs and they for sure lose it. The Chapman trade will never be looked at as a loss regardless of how you’re spinning it because they won it all. Now if they lost to the Indians that’s a different story. All Cubs fans knew Gleyber was going to be a stud. But they didn’t lose, so your argument holds no water and I’m done discussing it because it’s just idiotic.
They had the best record in baseball in 2016 (2/3 of the season was without Chapman) and trounced the Giants and Dodgers in the NLDS and NLCS so they absolutely would have made it to the World Series anyway. Then in the World Series game 5 was the only game they won that they arguably would have lost without Chapman. I never said Chapman wasn’t a positive to their championship run, just that I’m not convinced they would have lost without him.
Yeah they didn’t need him in the regular season that’s obvious. But my point still stands that he was more important in their post season then you’re acting like he was. He was easily a top 5 player of importance in their playoff run. We clearly disagree on his importance in the playoffs. I don’t think there’s anything left to be said about it between us, as we are on different planets. But 99% of Cub fans wouldn’t undo that trade after the title. That’s a fact.
Well obviously they wouldn’t change anything considering the outcome they got. All I’m saying is the Cubs would have at least made it to the WS that year without Chapman and the only WS game where he made a positive difference was game 5. Games 2 and 6 the Cubs trounced the Indians. Game 7 Chapman almost blew for the Cubs.
Unless something disastrous happens I think the Cards get an A if Goldschmidt gets them back into the postseason. Even if he bolts they’ll get draft pick compensation they can pick up Carpenters option and move him back to 1st and pick up someone like Aranado. lol wishful thinking!
For the backs I’d give it a C but it can get better. They get a competitive balance pick out of it and If Kelly shows something on offense. Which is a pretty good bet with Chase Field. Then you got a solid defender with some pop who’s young. I think Weaver is nothing more than a 5th Starter. He had no clear path to starting which made him expendable.
Lol you sure can tell who’s a StLouis fan and who’s a Diamondback fan. Can’t anyone answer the question subjectively?
My god arguing over what city’s best?
Trade was good for both teams this year.
Next year Goldy will be back in AZ . His wife and kids are staying in AZ I just read.
Cardinals will sell goldy on st louis this year and extend him because of this. Everyone wins.
So since you have a crystal ball and everything, what is my future wife’s name and how and when will I die?
Rooster you set the bar too low. If jleve has a crystal ball, I want lotto numbers too.
I’d give a B- to the cards. Weaver being gone will hurt right away, and with one year of Goldy.. it’s a risky bet that this is their year.. In an increasingly tough NL Central. I give them a coin flips chance of winning the division at best.
As for the snakes, I’d go A-. Probably as much of a haul as they could get right now.
Weaver was like 9th on the depth chart at starter
should have traded to get belt and crawford. send carpenter and j martinez elsewhere. throw c nartinez somewhere too
Why not trade a year supply of IMO’s pizza for Mike Trout too? Sounds fair to me…
Instead of paying $15 million to Goldschmidt and trading away their prospects, St Louis could have paid $23 million to Donaldson to play 3B (or 1B).
I honestly think the Cardinals should have done what you mention. Even sign Donaldson to a $25M contract if that’s what it takes. Keep the prospects for a bigger, better haul that nets a player with more team control.
My thought is that the organization didn’t foresee Weaver or Kelly getting any better so this might be the best deal the Cardinals thought they could get in return for young guys who have proven valuable if unspectacular.
donaldson had a choice of teams, goldschmidt didn’t
I’m not a huge fan of grading trades. I’ll just say that I like the deal better for AZ.
@redrooster is your IQ really that low? Read my post…I’m not predicting it. I simply stated that’s what I read. Read between the lines, (or does that take to much brain power) If his wife and kids are staying in AZ one would assume he’s planning on coming back.
@zpgreen Sounds like you have already set the bar low. Go clean your trailer…
Still a great trade for both sides long as Goldy stays healthy. St Luis should be a serious contender next year.
Errrr… what? I’m assuming you are referring to my “crystal ball” comment which was directed at jleve618, not you. I literally said that Goldy is more likely to re-sign with AZ next year than he is to sign an extension. Go back to the hole you crawled out of.
You’re some sort of stupid. Nobody even replied to your comment, so good for you on flying off the handle for no reason. Maybe jleve is one of your burner accounts and that’s why you just flipped your wig? Not mention, you don’t even know the difference between subjectively and objectively in your original post. If anybody live in a trailer, my guess is that it’s you based on intelligence level…
As any GM will tell you, you can’t grade most trades until a couple years have passed. Like this:
1. Goldy hits 40 Bombs, wins MVP, and Cards win WS…A+, no matter what the players going to Arizona do.
2. Goldy hits .274, 24 Hrs, Cards finish 4th. Does not resign, Az. re-signs him as a F.A…like Aroldis Chapman. And Weaver wins 14 games, 2.7 ERA,,, Kelly becomes the starting catcher and wins the Gold Glove and Rookie of the year……that trade now gets a big F- for the Cards fans who are so exuberant now.
Right now, arguing about this trade is just hot air,,, waiting for Pitchers and Catchers to report.
As terrible as it is to see goldy go, snacks won the trade. Got a HUGE return for just a season out of goldy.
No they did not get a huge return Cards won the trade hands down. Move on everyone to the next move.