The Mets found a veteran catcher in free agency earlier this month when they signed Wilson Ramos to a two-year, $19MM guarantee. However, the club had been willing to pay a much steeper price for the premier backstop on the open market, Yasmani Grandal, whom it offered a four-year, $60MM contract, Jorge Castillo of the Los Angeles Times reports. Grandal rejected the Mets’ proposal, leading them to sign Ramos for far less.
The Mets’ offer to Grandal was in the ballpark of the four-year, $64MM prediction MLBTR made for accomplished catcher entering the offseason. Of course, because Grandal declined the Dodgers’ one-year, $17.9MM qualifying offer after the season, the team that signs him will have to pay more than just money to secure his services. In the Mets’ case, adding Grandal would have meant surrendering their second-highest draft pick and $500K in international bonus pool space in 2019.
Aside from the Mets, the 30-year-old Grandal has also drawn reported interest from the Dodgers, Reds, Angels and White Sox this winter. Other than the White Sox, who traded Omar Narvaez and signed James McCann, those teams haven’t addressed the catcher position in any meaningful way since last season ended. As such, it stands to reason the Dodgers, Reds and Angels could still be among the teams in on Grandal. The Dodgers are “unlikely” to re-sign Grandal, though, unless he unexpectedly settles for a short-term contract, according to Castillo.
In the event the Dodgers do bring back Grandal, he’d give them another righty-capable batter, which is something the lefty-heavy club is reportedly seeking after trading away outfielders Yasiel Puig and Matt Kemp. Grandal is one of several such hitters who have been connected to the Dodgers this offseason, with Tigers outfielder Nicholas Castellanos also among those in the mix. But the Dodgers have found the Tigers’ asking price to be prohibitive, per Castillo, who hears that Detroit initially requested either young outfielder Alex Verdugo or catcher prospect Keibert Ruiz from Los Angeles.
Unsurprisingly, the Dodgers balked at giving up either Verdugo or Ruiz for the defensively challenged Castellanos, who’s only under control for another year (at a projected $11.1MM). The 22-year-old Verdugo ranks as the Dodgers’ No. 1 prospect and baseball’s 32nd-best farmhand at MLB.com, and could be a prominent member of their 2019 outfield or a major piece in an offseason trade revolving around someone more valuable than Castellanos. Ruiz, 20, is the Dodgers’ second-ranked prospect at MLB.com, which places him 39th overall. Along with fellow catcher prospect Will Smith, Ruiz could be part of the long-term solution for the club behind the plate.
Nice to see the Mets made a decent offer for Yasmani. Brodie must have found a way to hypnotise the Coupons.
Four years $60M???!
Did not know Mets knew how to write these numbers.
They offered $60M.
MLBTR projected 4/$64M
Thanks, edited.
No skin off my watusi.
But yeah, nice to see them attempting to compete. Just hope the injury bug goes somewhere else.
I bet I know which team most peeps wouldn’t mind seeing get it too.
The Mets should be thankful he rejected that. They got a FAAAAR better deal in Ramos
Agreed
Rather have Grandal, all things equal, but give me Ramos’ 2 years + 3rd yr club option all day
Agreed
Yup
Yeah I’d rather have Grandal as well, but you definitely can’t beat that massive difference in salary
Grandal isn’t that much better and the difference in salary between the 2 more than evens that out
No draft pick or loss of international money either
The current Mets situation is like two & a half men. Obviously Brodie is Charlie trying to get Fred to spend money…..and so far succeeding. Like the episode where Charlie found Alan’s wad of cash under the lamp.
This analogy is just about perfect. Brodie’s flameout won’t be as impressive, but it’ll be much more expensive.
This joke gets better every time someone brings it up. /s
The Coupons …. That is funny. I’m stealing it.
tackett44, u never heard “the Coupons” moniker before?? Mets fans have been calling them that foreverrrr…..
You mean Groupons.
Or the Thriftpons.
How about World Champion
The Mets like 4/60 contracts. See Jason Bay and Curtis Granderson
The Mets had a decent amount of money coming off the books heading into the offseason and the Diaz/Cano trade is dollar-neutral this year. What do people still not get about this?
I’m all for bashing the Wilpons for any number of reasons, but the fact remains that the team has not spent THAT much money, short-term or long-term.
This stiff turned down $60 million? Smfh. If this guy is one of the best catchers in the game, that’s a pretty sad commentary on catching talent in MLB. He’s not getting anywhere near $60 million from any other team.
Because he has other offers. The anti Grandal takes are funny. When he signs for close to 60 million you will be no where to be found. Reality is catchers get paid and he will
Nailed it. Guys like this one disappear pretty quickly.
He WAS offered $60M but he turned it down.
That’s what Lucroy thought last year, too. Grandal is an average catcher, nothing more. Take your rose colored glasses off.
If Grandal is an average catcher and nothing more, tell me what Catchers make up the half of the league better than him.
Go on.
It goes Realmuto then 59 below average catchers.
Absolutly not. No chance Lucroy rejected a 60 million dollar offer.
Perez, Molina, Barnhart,Barnes,Ramos, Castillo, Gomes,Sanchez, Realmuto, Posey, Contreras, Flowers.
Grandal is so good, the Dodgers wanted no part of him behind the plate during the WS. Lol. Go have some more of mom’s fig pudding.
He’s above average, but people act like he is the best in game. He’s fringe top 5. I would take Posey, Sal Perez, Molina, Contreras, JTR and Gary Sanchez ahead of Grandal still. I would say that Grandal is on Zunino’s level. Top 3rd of MLB catchers, but not even an all star. He’s only had one all star selection in his career.
Lol that’s a ridiculous list. Grandal is undoubtably a top 5 catcher.
That is a ridiculous comment
JDGoat – are you talking to me or southpaw? Southpaw’s list is dumb, but I put Grandal 6 or 7 in MLB right now, but not even all star level. I do agree with Southpaw’s comment about defense in the WS though. If Grandal isn’t hitting, he’s not worth a sack of rocks.
#2 in fWAR for catchers last year. #3 from 2016-2018 behind only JTR and Posey. Yah, I’d say he’s pretty comfortably above average.
Also the 8th best defensive ranking amongst all catchers since 2016, so saying he’s nothing without his bat seems a little off too.
You and Dave Roberts might want to have a discussion on why Grandal or benched in the World Series then…
They didn’t want Grandal behind the plate because he seemingly developed a case of the yips. Doesn’t change the fact that he’s probably a top 5 offensive and defensive C.
Yea and to include Sanchez is preposterous. Now that’s some homer stuff.
He had a bad year after a year where he was arguably the top catcher in baseball. Funny how short people’s memory can be…
From watching the games that tells me fWAR is a terrible analytic to go by
He is not good as shown in the WS
And consider that fWAR does not factor in framing. Grandal is a master at that.
Zpgreen- your list isn’t bad. Perez, Molina and Contreras are debatable, but they are all a close group.
“From watching an extremely limited sample size, I think he’s horrible.” Got it.
So if a player is not good in the WS then that means that player isn’t good? With that logic very few major league players deserve to be major leaguers, interesting…
Grandal is an average cathcher? You no-knowledge clowns make me laugh. Grandal was #2 in baseball last year in WAR for catchers. Yet, you, Buttwink, say he’s average?
@zpgreen
You must only judge catchers by their bat.
Not sure why with your spelling deficits, you feel comfortable calling other posters “buttwink?”
Hasn’t Grandal led all catchers in homers the last three years? Oh and surprised nobody mentioned how he led our pitching staff to top numbers in the NL the last few years? He’s a field general who calls a good game, above average defender, elite pitch framing that adds a bonus as a hitter with power
HOLD IT:::–Gary Sanchez is no teams catcher. It’s great to hit 20-40 HRs, as an OF, 1B, 3B BUT a C needs to play D and Sanchez does’t. In only 76 games as a C he lead all of MLB in passballs, and I know every NNY fan will say he was hurt. Not in the beginning of the year he wasn’t and a hurt shoulder should not prevent him from shifting his body to stat in front of a pitch. Remember a passball means it didn’t hit the ground or anything else, just a straight pitch. . Also 2017 he lead the AL in passballs so it wasn’t 1 year. NNY fans may remember him in BOSTON in 2017, in both the 8th & 9th innings he had passballs on strike 3 which the both runner made it to 1B.
Jeez, Roberts did not make that call, the front office did with their statheads. The new managers in MLB no longer make 5he calls as they do what the front office tells them.
sadly, Buster Posey now is not the Buster of 2012. 5 home runs last year, bad hip, a lot of miles on that chassis (thanks SF Chronicle).. He’s breaking down at an accelerating rate. The Giants can’t trade him because the fans would revolt and not show up, just like the situation with Bum…
Ramos for 2/18 is better than grandal 4/60 IMO
Why do you care about the Wilpon’s money so much?
Is the Wilson Ramos signing going to net the Mets A.J. Pollock?
Is it going to knock a buck off your next ticket purchase?
I’d be more concerned about getting the better overall catcher which Grandal is in comparison to Ramos. There is the added consideration in regards to the injury history between the two, something that ought to concern all Mets fans by now. In this day and age most teams would love for their #1 catcher to start 60-70% of the games behind the plate each season. Since Grandal became a regular catcher in 2015 with the Dodgers he has averaged 107 starts per season. That’s 66% of a 162 games schedule. How many MLB starting catchers can match that durability over the past 5 seasons? Not Ramos, and certainly not in the past two seasons when Grandal started 113 and 110 games as the Dodgers starting catcher.
Yes, I would have been OK with Maldonado too. I still like Juan Lagares in CF, he’s a plus war and this would be year 2 of his change in his swing.
The “stupid money” Phillies will have something to say about “This stiff not getting a better deal than $60 million”
He’s not a “stiff”. He’s a quality catcher. The problem is he’s already 30 and catchers do not age well.
While I don’t think he’ll be able to top what the Mets offered, I also don’t think he will fall too far short of $60 million. We’ll soon find out whether this was a stupid decision or not; it’s certainly not likely to be a smart move money-wise.
Southpaw I agree and disagree. Yaz is absolutely one of the best C on baseball. Like you referenced, it doesn’t mean he’s all that good. No question the talent level currently at that position is low, so he will get paid, nicely. There are is a lot of young talent at the position due to hit the game soon, so hopefully we won’t be having too many debates like this soon.
“…righty-capable batter…” not really, by far a better hitter from left side
Am I missing something? Ruiz was a top 50 prospect last I looked…
Yup. #39 to be exact.
You are correct. #2 catching prospect on mlb.com too.
castellanos and jake rogers for ruiz all day long.
I have a feeling Grandal will end up regretting the decision to turn down $60 million. I’d have a really hard time thinking that he’ll match that at this point in the offseason.
Grandal has other offers on the table and I can see the Reds jumping on him.
The Reds are going to build a package around Nick Senzel for JT Realmuto.
Ummm….. Keibert Ruiz is ranked 39 in MLB Prospects. Might want to fact check your work.
It’s fixed. I was looking at an outdated list. Thanks.
Ruiz is ranked number 39 on mlb’s top 100 prospects. I’d love to see the list where he’s unranked (unless it’s a mistake of course). Having seen him in some AFL games this year, it is tough to justify leaving him off the top 100. The kid is fantastic and a nice guy on top of that.
Me thinks grandal will be a disappointment. Hope I’m wrong for the sake of the team that signs him
Wow what are the Tigers smoking? If Detroit asked for that they’d be laughed out of the room by any team. Unless, of course, the don’t really want to trade Castellanos, at which point they’re morons.
I get a high ask, and coming down later if you don’t get it. But one expensive year of Castellanos shouldn’t net then one of the Dodgers top 5 prospects even, maybe not even Top 10… Detroit can’t reasonably be even trying to trade him if that’s true. They can’t be dumb enough to think the conversation would continue at that point.
He’s mainly a DH with one year of control. If the tigers think he is worth a big haul they are sadly mistaken
The Tigers heard Yankee demands for one year of Sonny Gray and got carried away.
I agree with you Bencole….Tigers are crazy for asking for Verdugo or Ruiz. Let them waste money on a last place team and let him walk next year….smh
I don’t blame the tigers for asking for Ruiz or verdugo, if the dodgers really want castellanos why not start high
Because getting high during negotiations leads you to make such ridiculous demands
Oh really the tigers fan doesn’t blame them for asking high? Come on now. It’s one thing to ask a little high, it’s another to be laughably unrealistic.
I agree with you but they have nothing to lose by asking high first. Cashman did the same with gray when the reds were calling for him
as a Dodgers fan I agree with you from a negotiating position
Castellanos is not a guy who fits an NL team he’s a FH and nothing more,
the Dodgers should keep Verdugo and instead trade Bellinger for Stanton
it’s like walking into a singles bar and asking women to come home with ya. can’t worry about how many gals say no to your offers. you’re only looking for one yes! 🙂
why only 1?
Or..the tigers have absolutely nothing to lose, and everything to gain?
No way Grandal gets that good of an offer from another team. He’ll be the Greg Holland of this offseason and regret rejecting that.
Is Grandal a pitcher? Has he had Tommy John Surgery?
Davis – people like you are annoying. You know exactly what the original comment was getting at. The fact that a player overestimates their market and has to settle for much less than predictions. Yet you try to belittle people by trying to compare all the aspects where the situations being discussed are different. How about trying to contribute something positive to the discussion?
Easy there ZP all I did was ask questions. I didn’t know my questions were negative? Grandal is coming off a season where he was rated as the best receiver in baseball BY FAR. He also has hit 20+ Home runs in 3 straight seasons while playing in a pitcher friendly ballpark. He is second in overall WAR for catchers only behind the most sought after trade piece this off season (Realmuto just in case you didn’t know). Can you fault the man for betting on himself? I promise you, Grandal will sign something close to what the Mets supposedly “offered” him. Good catchers who can do damage with the bat are hard to find. Grandal is not sweating one bit right now I would imagine.
The Mets dodged a bullet. I’d take Ramos’s deal over that offer to grandal easily
Grandal is among the best defensivr catchers in baseball. Ramos might not even be a catcher for very much longer, and was never much with the glove. No comparison.
do you really believe the Mets made a 60,000,000 dollar offer, I don’t.
I do believe that they did, Brodie Van Wagenen is very aggressive.
Uh oh Byrne , the fact attack dogs are loose! Its getting real out here!
Grandummy will regret turning down $60M
Yes he will. No doubt. As a Mets fan, I feel like we dodged a bullet here. Would much rather have Ramos for 2 yrs & $19 million than Grandal for 4 yrs & $60 million. The Mets also maintain the opportunity to pursue JT Realmuto in two years when he becomes a free agent, if they had signed Grandal, it would have been impossible.
Haha they edited out the part of how Ruiz wasn’t even a top 100 prospect. Shows how much this writer knows of some of the games top prospects smh
Whwt’s the URL to your comprehensive and informative baseball blog again?
Or how about posting a paragraph of insightful analysis for everyone here to critique?
That’s my point, it’s not insightful analysis if he can’t even know that one of the best IF NOT THE BEST catching prospects in the game is even in the top 100?
That’s like not knowing Vlad Guerrero Jr is not a top 100 prospect
You know your a dodger fan, when you put Vlad Jr. in a Ruiz catching prospect discussion!
I hope he regrets turning that down and signs a cheaper deal with the White Sox. I’d happily take him.
Oh he WILL regret it. Grandal will have many sleepless nights over the next couple of seasons. After being so bad in the postseason and being benched in the World Series, he should have pounced on a $60 million offer.
Since people are so correction happy on this post, the wrong Will Smith was linked. At least it wasn’t the actor though, so I guess it’s a win
Thanks. MLBTR doesn’t manually link players’ names when posts are published, so mistakes happen now and again.
I think the Mets should be thankful he turned the deal down, the Ramos contract turned out to be better. I can see why Grandal would turn down the QO but I don’t know why he would turn down NYMs offer.
For the tigers, the asking price is way too high. Not due to Castellanos’ performance, but because he’s under control for 1 more year and the tigers are not competing for the new few years. Dodgers (or any other team) won’t give up a big piece unless Harper,machado and pollock are off the board. Once they move and it gets closer to the season, tigers will lower their asking price. Tigers don’t have much leverage.. they made it clear they want to move him.
I will maintain that whoever get Nick, by providing a QO at year end, will have him for 2 years. The QO will likely be about 20mm. I see Nicks upside as a 3yr deal, at best averaging about that. He’s young enough to accept the QO, knowing it can’t be offered again. Plus what team will surrender a draft pick, the pool money, plus the big dollars to get a defensively challenged OF
Castellanos to the Dodgers could work but not for top prospects. Perhaps Joc Pederson and a prospect like 1b/3b Ed Rios or C/2b Conner Wong
Stupid to turn down a $60k offer. This makes the McCann signing by the Braves at $2mil a year look like an absolute steal, even at his age.
edit: $60mil offer
Grandal is a much better player than McCann so yes you get better players for more money
If the Reds get him watch out! Too bad he isn’t a starting pitcher, which is what we should be trying to get. I wouldn’t mind adding Yasmani too though
Would the Giants pursue Grandal? Zaidi former Dodgers GM very familiar with Grandal’s strengths and weaknesses, Posey with hip surgery, including labrum, move to 1b with Grandal and Garcia sharing catching duties until Bart is ready in 2021?
I like the way you think but Grandal will require to much term and he will get at least 60 mil.those who doubt haven’t done their homework,not partial,just a fact,probably wants to stay on the West Coast.Posey won’t be 100% for a while but when he is he will be as strong as ever,knowing others who’ve had the Surgery
Turning down $60MM guaranteed is a head scratcher. I wonder if there was a substantial amount of deferred money that reduced the NPV? Reportedly the Nats 10 year, $300MM offer to Harper was loaded with deferred money. I really like Posey (and I am a Dodgers fan) but at 32 and 7500+ innings caught in his career I can see him moving to 1b as the primary position and catching once or twice a week.
Posey will probably never hit .300 or more than 10 home runs again. Surgery of any type won’t alter the trajectory of a 30+ year old catcher…
If Grandal really rejected the Mets offer of $60 million over 4yrs, he is a moron because NO ONE else is going to offer him that much money. Wow, some players really overvalue themselves and end up regretting decisions like this. Good luck Yasmani.
So why not offer that money to pollock.
Because giving 4 yrs to an injury prone player in their 30’s is not good business.
and a guy who is a below average hitter away from Chase Field
hope angels sign maldonado but develop youngsters by giving them more time behind the dish. one thing about maldo, though. he sets up too far outside the k zone and many pitches don’t go his way.
How about Lux or Downs for Castellanos?
Dodgers are still overloaded with OF’ers so trading a middle infielder does not seem like a good fit. I think Dodgers have Lux penciled in to play 2b in sometime in 2020
lol you have to be kidding? Yeah lets trade our young stuf SS prospects for a DH
You realize there is no DH in the NL right?
I don’t see the tigers getting a top 100 prospect for castellanos. He only has 1 year left and he’s limited defensively. He’s been good but not great. If they want a top prospect they might have to take on a bad contract. Have they got anything left?
Bailey was released
Yep, I thought I heard that (Bailey). They don’t have any other terrible contracts to deal. About the best option might be 1B/3B Edwin Rios and maybe Tholes. Tholes could step into left field, move Stewart over to right. Rios could take over first, moving Miggy to DH. This gives them a couple lefty hitters to face the abundance of right handed pitching in the AL central. It gives them some speed with Tholes and much better defense.
I’d love to get Urias, but I doubt the Dodgers would part with him. He’s one of their young starters in the wings.
I think Tigers would want Pederson rather than Toles as the main return, along with another mid-level prospect (perhaps a pitcher)
Toles is pretty good. An absolute sleeper. He was a good left fielder and leadoff batter before a severe injury. Since then there are too many lefties on the Dodgers. Both he and Pederson should be enough for Cast.
I am stoked Grandal rejected that offer. Ramos is a much better value and we keep the draft pick. Plus Ramos is familiar with the NL East..just as good offensively and a tick above defensively IMO. I am happy with the off-season thus far. What I hope for now is a #5 starter. (Gio Gonzalez,Wade Miley or Brett Anderson) That bumps Vargas to the pen which solves the need for a lefty there. Sign Cody Allen to reunite him with Callaway. (Ottovino would be preferred, but save some $ for the deadline) Also sign another versatile bat for the bench (Maybe bring Flores back…Tim Beckham or maybe Derek Dietrich)
Take a flyer on Boxberger,Herrera or Randall Delgado as another bullpen arm. All 30 or younger with high reward potential. Call Alonso up whenever it is to add a year of control and then I’m good. If d’Arnaud or Plawecki can be traded for a bullpen piece or bench bat then do that. Nimmo and Rosario have breakout years…and Cespedes getting healthy would be a huge bonus. Not relying on it..but would be great if it happens. This is what it looks like…
1) Nimmo
2) Rosario
3) Cano
4) Conforto
5) Ramos
6) Alonso
7) McNeil
8) Lagares
1) deGrom
2) Syndergaard
3) Wheeler
4) Matz
5) Gonzalez
Cl. Diaz
Su. Familia
7th Allen
Herrera
Lugo
Gsellman
Vargas
Plawecki/d’Arnaud
Frazier
Davis
Smith
Rivera
This team can certainly contend for October baseball in my opinion
I like most of what you said. I wouldn’t touch Brett Anderson, not even on a minor league deal. Gio is okay but he’s too temperamental on the mound. Wade Miley would be my choice. I would LOVE to see the Mets give Ottavino the same contract they gave to Familia. With Familia, Ottavino & Diaz to finish games, the Mets would be nearly unstoppable. Great call on Derek Dietrich, he has the versatility & quality bat the Mets are looking for to go on their bench. I would allocate some additional funds to sign Adam Jones to a 2 yr deal. He may have lost a step or two in CF but he still has a quality bat and is a great clubhouse presence for the younger players. Juan Lagares can become a great 4th OF.
Miley works for me..want to keep that #5 starter a lefty if possible unless Kluber/Bauer or Stroman can be had in a trade. Ottovino is the best option but it comes down to $$. Cody Allen has closed and had great years..Callaway gets the best out of him and he can prob be had on a 2yr/$15-$16mil while Ottavino probably gets aboutn $10mil per. At 1st i was in on Adam Jones as well…but I’m leaning more towards defense for CF. Lagares is gold glove caliber and Rajai Davis can still go get it so I can live with passing on Jones. Dietrich is perfect for this team..or with the savings of not getting Jones, maybe Harrison instead. Can play everywhere but catcher in a pinch so he could be good too. Marwin Gonzalez would be perfect…but too much $$ probably. But i really hope Van Wagenen gets another starter and pushes Vargas to the pen. I mean..he could conceivably bounce back to the mid 3’s era wise..but put him in the pen. Or..the Mets could go in house for the pen and bench bat and really make a splash by signing Kuechel…maybe a shorter term, higher aav type deal with an opt out after the season. Imagine degrom, thor,kuechel,wheeler and matz rotation. I can dream right?
But the biggest thing is the improved defense. Ramos..Rosario..Cano..Lagares up the middle…i think that’s been the most overlooked aspect in the additions this year.
Yasmani “passed ball” Grandal as i like to call him ain’t worth it when his defense is so porous.
It’s hard to find a buyer for Grandal… The Rays have a need, but they don’t usually spend big on free agents. He could be catcher for 100 or more games and then DH some. Houston could use him as Catcher and DH. I always thought the Angels, but they just signed Lacroy and they have the DH spot filled.
Looks like Houston is it. Or go back to the Dodgers. He should have taken the QO.
what will Rays do with Zunino? Trade him to the Dodgers?
They could split the DH/C duties.
Rays just acquired Diaz who is basically a DH/1b.
when you factor in framing Grandal is the best catcher in baseball. The troglodytes 8n here who still live in 1990 might not know this, but team front offices do. He will get paid. You folks need to learn the new stats because your arguments are terrible.
He’s certainly up there – and a LOT better than he’s getting credit for here. After watching years of catchers losing strike after strike for White Sox pitchers, I’d love to have him until we get robot umps.
And robot managers too!
Then the Dodgers might win a WS
Grandal is a moron and he will learn just how stupid he was to turn down that offer sooner rather than later.
He won’t get any better than that.
Position depth runs in cycles…….
Right now there is a shortage of CF’s that can provide much offense…..As well as Catchers that can call/run a game and handle a pitching staff…..let alone play D and provide much offense.
The top rated prospects are lacking (example – Mejia should not be allowed to set-up behind the plate).
Teams are having to improvise and be flexible. Some try having 2 guys share the position. Since pitchers usually take 13 spots on ML rosters most of the year, that hurts teams that go that route as there is not enough quality talent to stock 30 teams.
The Dodgers, Rays, Indians, Royals and a few other FO’s are ahead of the curve by having multiple guys that can play multiple positions….and I’m not talking bench utility guys…..I’m talking starting players that can be moved around. The Depth Charts and subsequent linear thinking that goes along with it when handi-capping teams today is simply outmoded.
……..and about the most self-inflicted sniffling move a team can make is to waste a roster spot on a full-time DH.
Platooning is not ahead of the curve. See Dodgers WS. Completely used against them. The dodgers got stuck vs bad splits and it showed.
What the Dodgers and other teams I brought up do is not platooning.
You didn’t get what I wrote. It will take people like you 2-3 more years to comprehend what’s going on in MLB. More and more teams are heading in that direction…….no different then the changing nature of jobs in American business.
From the tigers perspective, they have nothing to lose by asking for exactly what they want. Nick Costellanos is a proven hitter whereas prospects are prospects. How many of the highest prospects eventually turn into also ran or simply flop? If the Tigers don’t trade him, it makes little difference to them.
I was in agreement with you until last sentence. If they don’t trade Castellanos, or sign him to an extension, the best they can expect is a compensatory draft pick. If they keep him into the season hoping to trade him at the trade deadline they risk injury and/or lesser performance than 2018. Now is the time to trade him for as much as they can get.
My point is that Alex Verdugo is a prospect and Castellanos is a sure thing. Still, if they get both prospects, so what? The Tigers are not seeing the post season in their current projected time frame. The only way that changes is to get only the best players or stay home.
By asking for a top prospect, the Dodgers might return by asking for another piece… they need a backup catcher… maybe Hicks? Or a bullpen arm… Greene? Hardy?
I don’t think Dodgers would make that proposal as it sends the message to Tigers that Verdugo or Ruiz are available for a Tigers package of players which is very unlikely
Maybe they are available. If they waste their money on Harper, Verdugo is excess.
Yeah maybe Greene or Wilson. One of the guys who only have a year or 2 of team control with the tigers which would put the dodgers further ahead. The longer time goes on the more leverage LAD has
Wilson was non tendered and is a free agent. Greene is Detroit’s closer. He may not have had a good year, but he is not a throw in.
If they were going to offer that for Grandal and got Ramos on a better deal they better take that remaining 41 million they were going to pay Grandal and invest in at least two more Pen Arms. Would love to see the addition of Britton and Robertson.
It would make my year if the Tigers could get Verdugo for Castellanos. We badly need a capable centerfielder. If I’m Al Avila I’m willing to give Castellanos and eat a borderline bad contract for Verdugo. Nick Castellanos for Alex Verdugo and Rich Hill.
That’d still makes zero sense for the Dodgers. The Dodgers would be better off waiting until the deadline where corner bats come cheaply and easily. Hill is the type of guy they’d be looking for at the deadline anyway. Verdugo is a basic non starter for Castellanos as is Ruiz etc. Verdugo gets moved in a package for an impact player with some semblance of control ie Kluber/Realmulto. Even then, Hill is nothing close to a borderline bad contract, especially for a year. Considering they place a value on depth/post season potential, there is extra value in him simply posting up allowing for Urias/Santana to build back up and them being able to stretch Ferguson out again. The trade only frees up ~4M AAV which is not significant at all. It also adds a hole they more likely would have to fill. The Tigers can value Castellanos all they want, but to the Dodgers he’s more likely due diligence as a potential cheap piece they might be able to acquire to sweeten a package. The Tigers can extend him if they want or ask for the world, but really nobody is going to meet that price knowing he’ll be inexpensive come the TDL. Especially an NL team that recognizes defensive killed them in the playoffs and was on full display in the WS.
We should be wondering why its being reported that Nick Castellanos is even “in the Mix” to go to LAD. He doesn’t seem to fit.
The Dodgers due diligence on pieces they can both use for the roster and those they can flip. They still are in the process of alleviating their roster crunch, and have to thin their upper minors a bit. Some prospects fit rebuilding teams better while may not fit other teams. A few guys on the MLB roster won’t be able to see the extended role they probably deserve so it’s a balancing act. They have a couple of guys that can flat out rake, but may not fit the construction or needs of their roster. Without a DH for example there is really nowhere to put Rios or Beaty since 1st & 3rd are spoken for and the abundance of LH bats. Joe suffered from the abundance of 1b types. Strippin/Toles probably have a case for extended playing time although the roles they can possibly garner probably won’t be there. What we’ve learned from this FO is not every nice is linear. And a rumor is generally a case of completing their due diligence.
could not agree more and do you think Dodger Brass doesn’t know this…writers need something to write about Speck-u-lation…
Franklin Perez*/Alex Faedo, Shane Greene, Blaine Hardy, and Nick Castellanos for Alex Verdugo, Jeren Kendall, and Will Smith?
Top-20*/-Top 25 RHP Prospect, RH RP/Closer, LH RP with a 1.17 WHIP last year, and Nick Castellanos.
Greene has two more years of control. Hardy with three. Obviously, Castellanos is a QO candidate and provides 1+ year of control..
Everybody knows about Verdugo. Will Smith is the Dodgers’ second-best Catching prospect. Profiles better on defense than offense (a lot like Jake Rogers) but gives the Tigers one more option in the pipeline. Kendall is interesting – huge arm, small bat. Guy is probably going to end up as a defense-first CF, or 4th OF option. He’ll definitely land on an MLB roster, probably more of a lock than Smith, who is generally rated higher (positional value).
*Franklin Perez is coming off injury, so I’m not sure if the Dodgers would value him or Faedo higher.
Castellanos,Hardy, Greene, and Burrows for Verdugo, Lux or Downs, and Kendall.
I would be extremely happy with Verdugo straight up. Lux would be another candidate I would consider as well.
Castellanos has a high price tag because the Tigers both think he can improve in the field and is a potential extension candidate.
And he can flat out rake.
Side note here. For anyone thinking that Grandal is going to get a better offer than what the Mets offered him, here are some stats for you. Jonathan LuCroy, who just signed for 1yr & $3.3 million, threw out 30% of base stealers in 2018. Grandal threw out 28%. Now granted, I know that Grandal is the superior hitter but with teams valuing defense more than ever nowadays, Grandal will not get a better offer than the $60 million the Mets offered him. Just isn’t happening.
Grandal is a superior hitter and framer. You cherry picked a stat that generally has more to do with a pitching staff and their ability to hold runners. It’s not as though the Dodgers staff as a whole is adept to keeping runners honest, especially the pen. The stat should also come with the qualifier that in today’s game where running is not really a priority who cares it ever so meaningless. I’m not sure how you justify using a non significant 2% and trying to compare, when framing is inherently more impactful than trying to throw out a runner when guys like Jansen and Baez for example give you no chance.
Superior hitter…compared to what…other catchers????Hmmm strike out or Hr…and while his framing is good…his passed ball allowed wild pitches is what worse in MLB…still…I would keep him over pay for a 3 year deal him an opt out after 2 years….and just cause we have 4 “up and coming catchers” does not mean squat until they do…Remember Mike Ivy, Barnes in the second year….
Comparison was to Lucroy. I’m not sure there is any catcher on this market without flaws, yes you can even poke holes into JTR’s game although he’s the most well rounded. Some bigger than the others. The fact of the matter is Grandal’s season was overshadowed by his terrible post season.
I’m not saying that Grandal isn’t without his flaws. He struggles with past balls yes. He holds a running game extremely well, commands a staff well, and does a good job in the running game. The C position has evolved and some people sort of gloss over that fact with velocity, evolution of breaking stuff
Along with the continued trot of pen arms blowing max effort. Expectations of middle of the order bat who is a top end elite defender are becoming scarcer and scarcer. It’s becoming harder and harder to C and that’s where you’re sort of seeing the stark contrast in the ends of the spectrum. If you’re signing Grandal you’re getting a pretty good well rounded catcher in today’s game, whose pluses far outweigh his deficiencies. Now much like Ramos you have to question the durability, but you really do need to have two C in today’s gam. Should he be posted in the middle of the order and catching 130+ G, probably not. Then again that argument can be had about a guy like Lucroy and Ramos. We’ve seen what the wear and tear has lead to in the playoffs with him. You can basically run a what’s what season by season with the Dodgers not having a backup they trusted or Grandal being way to important to the offense and how he fought through Injury, injury, wife having serious health and pregnancy issues, and a case of the yips. Which is basically why there was extreme cause for optimism this year. That never occurred with Barnes getting injured late in ST and never was able to find his footing especially as adjustments were made. We basically saw Barnes’ sop slump. But I digress, my main point remains that you can’t compare where Grandal and Lucroy are at right now especially not cherrypicking a non substantial difference without acknowledging the complete comparison.
If he does get more I bet it won’t be for much more.
Anyone who says Grandal is a great catcher hasn’t watched balls bounce off of his wooden hands, or squirt between his legs in big moments for three years like I have. And at the plate he is “hurt the team” streaky and abysmal in the clutch.
Grandal and his agent are stupid to turn down that contract! Yes, he is a top 5 catcher but given the quality of MLB catchers, that’s like being a dwarf among midgets…big whoop!
Please someone take Grandal. He is bad beyond the numbers which make him look a lot better than reality. You just had to see him day to day. Horrible!
Lucroy to the Angels – teams needing a Catcher are drying up. Grandal will be lucky to still get 4/$60M with no competition left. I still think the Phillies sign him after they miss on Harper/Machado only because they have to do something and obviously think they are weak at Catcher after dealing for Ramos last season.
keep Verdugo. trade Bellinger for Stanton
Just curious…do you have a relative that sold real estate in Florida?
If Grandal is a top 3 or 4 catcher mlb, it shows how trash that position has become.
Joc Pederson and a lotto ticket for Castellanos isnt too bad of a deal for Detroit. Pederson likely can be flipped later as well with 1.5 yrs control at the deadline.
The Tigers may sign filler thru FA, but they are looking for keepers in trade.
Thanks god he rejected, or else, the Mets would have been on the hook for a player that’s is not nearly a Yady Molina, Salvy Perez, Buster Posey, J.T. Realmuto among others. Grandal is good, don’t get me wrong, but he’s definitely not worth $60-64 M over 4 yrs. No way !!! He gets $40-50 M at best with me over 4 years.
$40-50 is still a big number for his type of production. Yes, he has some pop, but he also has a poor OBP and hits for a low BA. I wouldn’t personally pay top dollars for a player like that one. Anyone can be a good C when you got Kershaw on the mound. I would to see him go somewhere else and see how that pitching staff fares off under his command.
In what universe is Grandal in that he is turning down 4/60? He shouldn’t have even turned down the QO for $17.9. This guy goes back to the Dodgers in Feb with his tail between his legs for 1yr/$10mill.
You all really need lives….
we need lives????…so what do you call a person watching people with a hobby???and more important…why did this author bother writing this piece..Geez Grandal is horrible vs left handers…Bring back AJ..good D Kersh loves him and he can help mentor the kids
no, they need to stop using batting avg, caught stealing and passed balls for catchers. its 2019, we know better now. pitch framing is king for catchers and Grandal is the best AND is a good hitter. people who comment here need to evolve with the times and stop evaluating players like it’s 1985…
The coupons joke is kind of an old one. As a Yankees fan I can tell you it does not get less funny with repetition LOL! Just listen to a New York sports radio show and a Mets fan calling in to rant about the owners you will laugh your ass off. I even saw a picture once of an old woman walking into her change purse and the headline was the New York Mets during free agency.
Tigers should try to get Lux from the Dodgers for Castellanos.
Or Downs for Castellanos
It was a sad day in Detroit when Dombrowski decided to trade Eugenio Suarez to Cincinnati for some washed-up pitcher, and keep Castellanos. Sad, sad day.
It was a great day when they got Miguel Cabrera for basically nothing.
Detroit gets Verdugo, LA gets Kluber, Cleveland gets Castellanos,Greene/Hardy and Wong.
Ejoy, did you put any thought on this from each teams perspective. Detroit likes it because they get 6 years of a top prospect for one year of a player and a bullpen piece. The Dodgers get 3 years of Kluber and give up Verdugo and a no name prospect. Cleveland gives up 3 years of a top pitcher and get one year of a good hitter and poor glove, a bullpen piece that is average at best, and the no name prospect. Why on earth would you think Cleveland would do that trade?
Because Cleveland wouldn’t do deal verdugo for kluber(la wants kluber though).Cleveland wants Castellanos per reports and relief and catching plus don’t forget salary relief,very important).det wants verdugo not Kluber. Every team gets what they want,that how 3 team trades works.
Ejoey, yes, three team trades can work, but this one does not. Cleveland wants players that can help them in 2019 AND BEYOND. How does one year of Castellanos help the Indians in 2020 and beyond? It doesn’t. Cleveland has also been linked to wanting Verdugo. Cleveland can skip the Detroit part and just trade with LA if the can work out the additional pieces coming to Cleveland. Your trade proposal does not get Cleveland what they want so it will never happen. If Cleveland trades Kluber it won’t be for salary relief. They already achieved the salary relief in their other transactions this offseason. Cleveland rejects this three team trade.
I understand your point but Cleveland wants Castellanos per Cleveland papers and others. I never saw Cleveland talk about Verdugo, to young. Their window is closing to compete with Bos/NY. Cleveland needs strong right hand bat,relief and catching. And salary relief is important. Kluber gone and one year of Castellanos 11mil and draft pick after QO. Give me a better trade for Cleveland’s needs.
I have read many reports on potential deals with the Dodgers and Verdugo’s name has been prominent. I have heard that name many more times than Castellanos. I have also see a recent report from Anthony Castrovince of MLB.com reporting that it is unlikely that the Indians trade Kluber or Bauer unless the are overwhelmed. That report shows they are NOT still looking for salary relief. They have already saved money on the trades that they have already made. If they trade pitching it has been heavily reported that the return must help them in 2019 and BEYOND. Your offer does not do that for the Indians. In your trade after 2019 we have a bullpen piece and a catching prospect not in the Dodger’s top 30. Cleveland, by the way, has two prospects in their top 30 that are catchers. Eric Haase, who will likely be on the Indians roster this year. and Noah Naylor, their 4th best prospect according to MLB.com. Wong is not even a top 30 prospect of the Dodgers and is not needed and the Indians need much more than one year of Castellanos and a bullpen piece for 3 years of Corey Kluber. Yes, Cleveland needs outfielders. Castellanos is NOT THE ONLY ONE that I have heard mentioned to Cleveland, I can think of better trades to make straight up with the Dodgers, Padres and others. I can see three team trade with Atlanta and others. Sorry, your trade does NOT meet Cleveland’s needs.
You make a good rebuttal except for Verdugo going to Cleveland no interest there. Also Cleveland’s prospect catchers are 18 and 26, no help long time
What do you mean no interest in Verdugo for the Indians? Indians need outfielders and are looking for players with team control to help in 2019 and beyond. Verdugo with 6 years of control is ready for 2019 and of course beyond. His name has been mentioned in every Klubor rumor with the Dodgers. Verdugo and Bellinger would be the two most obvious targets from the Dodgers that can help in 2019. Why you keep saying their is no interest is wrong. I HAVE HEARD Verdugo’s name mentioned much more so than Castellanos. The Dodgers also have 2 catching prospects Ruiz (Dodger #2 prospect) and Smith (Dodger #5 prospect) that can come in a Dodger package. Wong is not a top 30 prospect. Your package to the Tribe is just not what the Indians are looking for. Sorry that I don’t agree with you.