Free agent reliever Bud Norris has made a late-breaking agency change. Per Jon Heyman of MLB Network, via Twitter, Norris is now represented by the Ballengee Group.
Norris, who’s closing in on his 34th birthday, evidently hasn’t been pleased with the opportunities he has been afforded to this point on the open market. He’s coming off of a $3MM deal that he signed with the Cardinals last February, just before the start of Spring Training.
The St. Louis org received a quality contribution for its money, as Norris tossed 57 2/3 innings of 3.59 ERA ball with 10.5 K/9 and 3.3 BB/9. He also recorded 28 saves after stepping into the closer’s role for the Cards. Norris sat at 95 mph with his four-seam fastball, continued to get good results with a cutter, and reached a 12% swinging-strike rate for the second-straight season.
That showing seemed likely to boost Norris’s market standing, but there has been little in the way of reported interest to this point. That isn’t necessarily unusual for a non-star reliever. Still, with just two weeks left until camps begin to open, his market outlook is unclear. MLBTR predicted that Norris would secure a two-year, $12MM deal on the open market, though that obviously represents only a best guess after contemplating a wide range of plausible outcomes.
I enjoy this site but does anyone really care when a player hires a new agent? They all are after the same goal of getting the player as much money as possible.
Nobody forced your clicking finger to activate.
There’s a much bigger story here which many of us have been following. It has to do with the slow free agent market over the last 2 seasons wrt teams seemingly waiting until after spring training starts to sign veteran pieces on the cheap. 3 years ago, Norris would’ve been getting offers from multiple teams for his 2018 performance, possibly in the $20M over 3years or more range. Lucroy, Moustakas, and more recently Grandal among many others are having to settle for one year contracts. If you look at pitchers like Holland, it is quite likely that his missing a large portion of spring training really hurt his production with the Cards. Neil Walker probably experienced the same thing last year. I’m sure it’s frustrating for these players. They want some security.
A lot of what’s going on, with Norris being more evidence, feels like a change between the owners, players association, and league need to happen. It would not be surprising if this lead to a strike.
Yep. We all kinda thought teams were trying to stay out of the penalty last year, getting ready to bid high on the big free agent stars this year. Obviously that hasn’t happened yet. This is really starting to smell like collusion. I get it that the longer contracts for less AAV just haven’t worked well when you think of Pujols and the like, so I can see being gun-shy, but there really aren’t even good five year deals being tossed around much besides Corbin and Cain last year. Something just feels off, like teams are prepping for something.
Who is worth a five year deal that Isn’t getting offered a five year deal?
Grandal. Lucroy should’ve gotten one a few years ago, along with Moose! Kuechel and Kimbrel are still waiting, among some others. Whether you think they’re worth a lot of money is one thing, but these kinds of above average guys had been getting longer term deals at less annual value. These aren’t the guys looking for superstar deals, but were looking to cash in at free agency after their arb years. Grandal, whether you were high on him or not, should have gotten that 5 year offer. He was by far the best free agent catcher on the market. Look at what Toronto’s catcher got a few years ago after he left the Pirates. The market has changed.
Teams have come to realize five year deals for a catcher near 30 are not a wise investment. Catcher is such a physically demanding position that they are almost bound to break down or will need to change position. Very few catchers have ever provided the offensive production to warrant the risk. As far as relievers is concerned, the numbers probably point to the fact that the record of success for free agents has been low enough that it no long merits signing them to multiple year contracts at top dollar. Only a few will merit the gamble. The mileage on Kimbrel’s arm cannot be ignored when he is asking for a 5 year deal.
I thought that Grandal was offered a 4 year deal with the Mets but turned it down or am I mistaken
Yes teams are prepping for something! It is not collusion. It is the fact that a lot of teams are trying to do a better job of spending their money. Name 1 large contract that has worked out? Just 1 is all I ask…10 year deals just haven’t worked. 8 year deals? Oh those haven’t worked either!
This is not collusion at all. Teams are willing to give players HIGHER AAV salaries but want to do it for less years. That is smart business. The players don’t want to accept those contracts for the same reason teams don’t want to go longer years. Injury and regression!
Players want an opt out so if they play even better they can get out of that contract and get more money. Just agree to the 3 year deal with a high AAV get paid then get more money…once you start regressing you shouldn’t still be making the big bucks…Pujols and Cabrera for example.
You asked to name one large contract that has worked out for the team. Trout 6/$144.5, Scherzer 7/$210 and Ramirez 8/$160 all worked. You could make a strong case for a handful of others too. I suspect the Angels wish they had signed Trout for 10 years. I do agree that most big money long term deals don’t work out for teams though.
I’m on the players side in all this. Well, mostly. I’d be with them completely if they weren’t willing to screw amateurs and abandon minor leaguers.
But Grandal isn’t the right example. Look how bad that 5 year deal for Martin looks now. Deals like his and McCann’s worked out terribly. Grandal has definitely been one of the best catchers in the game, but nobody was going to give a catcher over 30 five years. He was offered four and something close to 60M and didn’t take it.
Trout and Ramirez were buying out arb years and a couple of their free agent years. Those contracts are up at age 30 and 31 correct? not 36+… I should have been more specific I guess…All the guys wanting these big contracts will be in their mid to upper 30’s, some even 40 when they are done.
The Scherzer deal is definitely the one outlier so far. I wish there were more that were successful the full length of the contract. There are just too many instances that teams are paying for past performance, especially in free agency…The teams were paying huge salaries for something a player did for another team.
Bert…that is the problem with all of these long contracts…There have been way to many that have become an albatross.
As for Grandal…you hit it on the head. He turned down a reported 4 year deal. If that is the case then settling for a 1 year deal is his fault, not another teams fault and not collusion either. He had an offer and rejected it.
You are just flat out wrong. They would have been huge mistakes. Hosmer’s deal was a huge mistake.
Matt Holliday, 7yrs $100m+ with StL
macstuts…who is flat out wrong? I am against huge contracts, and I agree with you that Hosmer’s deal was a mistake. I am not sure who you are directing that toward?
Matt Holliday wasn’t a “huge” contract…yes it was for 7 years, but averages out to be less then 18 mil a year. That wasn’t huge then, or now…at least not in my book.
Sorry, just getting out of bed, it wasn’t you who said “Grandal. Lucroy should’ve gotten one a few years ago, along with Moose! Kuechel and Kimbrel ”
The statement statement is just wrong. I don’t know too many people who would agree with it.
Lester worked out!
The point to all of this is that the current cba sort of put players in a position to hit free agency at age 27-30 for most. Those players would then go out and get that multi-year offer and players would have some certainty into their mid-30s. Whether teams have “learned” not to give out those contracts is certainly an argument we can have. But the overall issue here is that these players are playing for peanuts, in many cases, through their arb years while in their prime. They aren’t getting the life-changing money they were say 5 years ago once they finally hit free agency. Now many are settling for the one year contracts, and are considered past their prime. That’s a fundamental change in the status quo, and it is hurting the players at the benefit of the owners. That really can’t be denied. And this is what will lead to a strike, unless the players can get the next CBA to work more in their favor.
Verlander, absolutely. 7 yrs $180M. Since 2013, $132M for 26.8 fWAR or 27.4 bWAR. He’s averaging 201 innings a year and 4.5-4.6 WAR per season.
Strasburg, absolutely. 7 yrs $175M Since 2016, $48M for 11.9 fWAR or 12.3 bWAR. Averaging 151 innings and 4.0-4.1 WAR per season.
I’d argue Lester should be added to that list.. 13.6 fWAR or 12.4 bWAR over 4 seasons. He’s averaging 3.1 to 3.4 WAR and 193 innings a year. That kind of consistent, high innings productivity is very rare these days.
There are a lot of big contracts which work out just fine. Basically, teams should expect to overpay in free agency. That’s how it’s going to work. If the team signs a big contract and that player is averaging over 3 wins pear year, you’re getting at least borderline All Star performances for that money.
I haven’t been too supportive of the collusion arguments or the system being broken until recently. Machado and Harper are asking for ridiculous contracts, but there seem to be an increasing number of quality players who aren’t being signed by teams who could obviously use the upgrades and stable production from multi-year free agent deals (cough, Twins, cough, cough).
Right. I noted that yesterday.
Speaking of, the Cards are reportedly interested in Norris. No idea of what $$ they would spend on keeping him.
Yes – it’s very interesting because it often indicates a lack of overall interest. Players feel their agents aren’t prioritizing them when in reality it’s likely they’re just not that in demand.
Can’t wait till Spring Training. And see all the players with “will play for food” signs, because the owners are whipping them that bad in negotiations lately.
As long as they haven’t blown all of their money they will be fine…
Or until their golddigging wives file for divorce and take half.
Not bitter. ay?
Hopefully they’re prenupped.
It’s funny how players have some of the most attractive wives on the planet. I thought they said money can’t buy love?
It can’t, but it’s a really good down payment.
Yeah. The owners are really struggling too.
Sounds perfect for Friedman and the LA Dodgers; sign him to sure up their back end bullpen options…
Stl guy here – Norris was great for us last year but I would never give him a 2 year deal .
Joe Kelly got a 3 year deal and was arguably worse than Norris in 2018. I get the age difference, but 2 years 10M for Norris doesn’t sound unreasonable at all.
Has Kelly been bad for a decade?
kelly proves how low-end guys on a trade can come throu
Kelly stepped in the post season. That’s the only reason. he got what he got.
He had a decent couple months but faded down the stretch. Didn’t really get much out of him in august/September.
I guess that’s what happens when you act like a tool towards younger players. You get little-to-no interest because you are labelled a clubhouse cancer!
Norris was not a cancer. Hicks himself said it was all for the good. Norris did exactly what most veterans in every club house do every year. Just some wimpy little “fans” overreacting to something that was blown out of proportion to begin with.
Oh he mad…….
Speaky thee English!
He’s been bad for a decade and he’s expecting a two year deal? These players are nuts.
He hasn’t been great, but he’s been far from bad.
1 year/$4 million
Dude is trash!
Teams are starting to realize they can win without the $250 mil players so no need to sign them. Baseball needs a cap plain an simple.
On owner profits, I agree.
You know how much they are making. We know how much Disney lost, nine figures.
Baseball pays its players a higher percentage of profits than any other sport.
Bud Norris arm is dead. He was the Cardinals closer and was successful but buy late August he was done. They had stopped using him as their closer. This is why he does not have a 2 year contract. Most of these FA are asking for more than teams and good sense say to give. My guess is teams would be willing to give Harper or Manny 4-5 years and 200-250 million dollars before ever looking at a 10 year deal. Pujols ended that nonsense.
If Pujols had signed a 10 year deal at the same age as Harper and Machado are now, he would have produced 62.3 rWAR with a .301/.386/.559/.946 line, 155 OPS+ and 359 HR over the 10 years. The issue isn’t 10 year contracts. The issue is 10 year contracts to players who are 30+ years old. Age is why a team would be better off to give Machado 10 years today, than to give Arenado 7 or 8 years next off season.
That maybe true, but take away Harper’s outlier year and Harper’s averaging less than 3 WAR a season.
Machado cost himself a lot of serious contenders with his post season immaturity
These guys are not Trout. These guys are not Pujols. .
I think Machado would be with a team right now if he didn’t do that in the postseason.
Even if you think his age 22 season was an outlier he will never be able to reach again, Harper has a 143 OPS+ over the past 2 seasons at age 24-25. That is HOF worthy for a COF and he is only now entering his prime. If I was an NL team, I wouldn’t feel comfortable giving him 10 years because I think his glove will be a big negative by the end. However, if I was an AL team who could play him at DH 25-35% of the time to keep him fresh now and make him a primary DH at the end, I would definitely do it. As a Rays fan, I wish they would go after him and make him the face of the franchise as they push for a new stadium (in Tampa or elsewhere) and it gives them that big middle of the order bat they could use as they challenge the Yankees and Red Sox over the next handful of years.
Twins???
But, but, why don’t they ever say who his former agent was?? haha
I don’t love Norris, but i’d take another flier on him as the no. 3 chair in a closer-by-committee in Atl. if he’s cheap.
I’m sure teams are, but fliers are not two year deals.
It’s unfortunate that he can’t get a 1/4 or 1/5 deal. At this point, he would likely accept.
Without the aide of PED’s to prop up an aging body , anything but one year deals laden with incentives is silly after a guy turns 33-34 . The monster deals were a byproduct of steroids extending careers. MLB is not looking away anymore.
Let’s not forget he was trying to be a bully and snitching to Matheny on guys. I respect his ability but wouldn’t want him around the young guys
Norris was a minors deal last year and ended up turning out for most of the season. That said who wants to keep a spot for him on the 25 man for a two year deal. It’s a risk and an issue when there are loads of young cheap pitching available.
It’s hard to believe the Cards had this overrated clown for any period of time. We’ve clearly entered the ‘Joe Flacco Era’ of MLB. Parlay a nice season into a lifetime contract. Sheesh