The White Sox took a rare foray into the high-end free agent market this winter but came away empty-handed in their attempts to sign either Manny Machado or Bryce Harper. Machado ended up signing a ten-year, $300MM deal with the Padres, while Harper landed the most guaranteed money in baseball history ($330MM) on a 13-year contract from the Phillies.
In the wake of those enormous deals, White Sox executive VP Ken Williams defended his team against criticism from fans and pundits that the Sox should have spent more to come away with one of the two superstars. “It’s a shame if it’s being portrayed that we were on the cheap on this thing,” Williams told Daryl Van Schouwen of the Chicago Sun-Times. “That’s really interesting because, holy s—, that’s a quarter of a billion dollars we offered [Machado] with a chance to be higher than what he’s getting.”
In regards to Harper, the White Sox had meetings with the outfielder and agent Scott Boras, but the team ultimately felt Harper’s asking price was simply too high, though Williams liked Harper personally. With Machado, however, the Sox made a much more ardent push, including the contract Williams referenced.
Chicago’s top offer to Machado was a reported $250MM in guaranteed money over eight years, plus a pair of $35MM vesting options for the 2027 and 2028 seasons. Additional escalators and incentives could have maxed the deal out at $350MM over the decade-long span. Based just on the guaranteed years, Machado would’ve received an average annual value of $31.25MM per season, topping the $30MM AAV he’ll receive in San Diego.
“People are lost on the fact that on a yearly basis, our offer was more than San Diego’s….So it was about years guaranteed,” Williams said. “So there is an argument that could be made that our offer was the better of the two. It certainly had more upside for him. All he had to do was basically stay healthy.”
Williams shared in the fanbase’s disappointment that neither player was signed, saying that, “Rest assured that no one is feeling what Rick [White Sox GM Rick Hahn] and I are feeling because every single day since June of last year, this is what we had planned for, the pursuit of both Harper and Machado.
“Harper [was] well out of our range. With Machado, we extended ourselves as far as we could without jeopardizing what we’re going to need to do in the future….Our fans would have been much more disappointed in our inability to keep this next core together. We would have overextended ourselves had we gone to an uncomfortable level.”
Williams isn’t wrong in suggesting that a $250MM offer is a major commitment — after all, prior to Nolan Arenado’s extension with the Rockies and the Harper/Machado signings, only three contracts in baseball history had ever topped the $250MM guaranteed money threshold. The most obvious counter-argument, of course, is that if the Sox were willing to go that far in their offer, it seems short-sighted to then ask Machado to absorb the risk for the vesting option years. It’s no small feat for any player to “basically stay healthy” in their mid-30’s, and it’s hard to imagine any player passing on that guarantee from the Padres for 2027-28 in order to chase the opportunity for only $20MM-$50MM more in salary from the White Sox. (I say “only” since that amount wouldn’t seem particularly enticing to a player like Machado who’d already amassed a fortune. By that same token, an extra $1.25MM in AAV is something of a drop in the bucket someone already making $30MM.)
The comments about how a Machado deal could impact future contracts might be tougher for White Sox fans to swallow. After all, the team has just $15.25MM on the books for the 2020 season, and Tim Anderson is the only player guaranteed money in 2021 and beyond.
As Van Schouwen notes, young stars like Yoan Moncada, Eloy Jimenez, Michael Kopech, Carlos Rodon, and Anderson won’t start to get expensive for years. Anderson is already signed to an extension through at least 2022, Rodon has two arbitration years remaining, Moncada won’t be arb-eligible until 2021, Kopech has barely pitched at the MLB level, and Jimenez has yet to even make his Major League debut. Even all five of these players did develop into stars, extensions for all on top of a ten-year Machado contract shouldn’t have been much of a stretch for a club that plays in a major market like Chicago (and just landed a new broadcasting rights contract).
I find it funny that people think the White Sox offer was actually more than the Padres, the last 2 years were effectively team options worded differently. It was essentially a 8/250 mill offer with 30 mill of incentives (and it hasn’t been made clear how reasonable those incentives were)
White Sox Media and fans were spreading misinformation.
Years 9 & 10 kicked in at 550 plate appearances for $35M per year.
We’ll never know for certain, but if Hanley signed that White Sox contract, he probably would not have seen the end of contract, to make the full 350. Manny probably woulda been “Hanley Ramirezed”
There’s no spinning this one: 300M >250-350
but if Manny* signed that White Sox contract
Machado didn’t want it because theres a huge chance he wouldn’t see a dollar over $250m. The odds of a player staying healthy and productive that long are low and always have been, regardless of how incredible they are at their peak. Which brings us back to how silly it is to commit money to players in that age bracket. Honestly, if players were more amenable to contracts like that which give the player incentives while protecting the team if things go down the tubes, a lot more teams would be in on big name FA.
Bottom line it wasn’t enough, so williams can fluff all he wants but they FAILED! JR always pinching the pennies so instead of putting butts in the seats with a marquis signing he’s going to laugh all the way to the bank with the dough he saved. Look at his bulls, they are terrible and they sell out every game. And if media starts being critical then he starts bullying them . As Hawk H would say, HE GONE, you won’t see me there any more
Bulls stopped selling out years ago but I get your drift.
Since White Sox almost spent some money, maybe their fans will almost buy a ticket. I’m sure Williams will understand.
absolutely hysterical that you say that the owners penny-pinching when they offered eight years in 250 million dollars..
Everyone who has ever followed the Sox & Reinsdorf KNOW that they are penny-pinchers. In this FA season, the Sox were deliberately making offers they knew would not be enough. This practice was desirable to satisfy their base and promote the idea that they were “all-in” to win.
It worked! They kept their base interested and kept talk radio humming all winter.
Wrong. Bulls had a sell out streak that just ended this November, this of course due to the team being terrible and most of the young “talent” was out injured.
I don’t think anybody thinks the offer was “more.” I have seen people say it was “better,” and there certainly is an argument for that. The last 2 years were 100% injury insurance, unless you believe Machado would all of a sudden become an awful baseball player. Outside of an injury-shortened 2014, he has reached 690+ plate appearances every year since his rookie year, which is 140 more than he would’ve needed to activate those options. With those 2 options, the deal would have been more, and that doesn’t even factor in any incentives (no matter how reachable those actually were).
That’s not me arguing one way or another, I’m just pointing out that calling those options “team options” is a stretch. They wouldn’t manipulate his playing time like that unless he was truly awful at the end of the deal.
As far as my opinion – I think they made a very solid offer, and anyone that is suggesting they cheaped out is just looking for yet another reason to knock the Sox and/or Jerry. I also think if management was that dead set on getting Machado since last year, they should’ve stepped up and offered the 10yr/$300M he was looking for from day 1. If they wanted him that badly, they shouldn’t have even let other teams get involved. I also think that as it got to the end, they should’ve said F it and made those last 2 years guaranteed if they REALLY wanted him.
All that being said, I don’t think it was a bad offer by any means. Heck, the only other team willing to go higher than that was the Padres. It sucks for the Sox, but it is what it is. Time to move on.
Kenny – if you’re reading this, disappear again. Stop talking to the media. You aren’t making it any better.
i don’t think a breeding option can be anything but being healthy. it’s at bats or games for position players and innings or starts/ appearance. don’t j
Technically it could be called more. Seeing as how 8/250 is more per year then 10/300
Personally I think it is entirely foolish for any player right now to take more years, especially when teams are offering options and incentives.
There’s a really good chance that by the time the 13 year Harper deal and 10 year Machado deal run out that both aav’s look extremely reasonable.
Plus there’s a really good chance that b4 those 2 deals run out their current teams have come and gone through their competitive stretch and are rebuilding again.
You know happens when teams rebuild? They trade their high priced veterans.
You know what happens when high priced veterans have a no trade clause and team options or incentives?
Those players usually say they will waive the no trade clause if the acquiring team picks up the options.
Not only was their a really good chance for Machado to make that $350mil over 10 years with the Sox, but there was also a good chance he could of turned that 8/250 into 10/350 just by being traded.
The last 2 years were both injury and performance related. If white Sox didn’t think he was worth 35 mill at that time they could have manipulated his PA’s easy. Almost all long term FA deals are bargains on the front end for the team and bargains for the player on the back end. That’s how they work. Odds that machado would have seen year 9 of the deal were sub 20%
The Pads offered more guaranteed money. The Sox loaded up their contract with incentives. Manny was probably advised by his agent to take San Diego’s offer. I would have taken it too.
I feel your pain, White Sox fans.
For what it’s worth,Yanks offered Machado around 240M
You really finished 2nd. (Your offer 8/250M max out 350M)
My own personal human dislike bar.
Thanks, I feel important!
(dionls, be original or better yet, stop following me)
A Yankees’ fan feeling someones’ pain of not signing somebody they loathe or let alone NEED to give them a snowball’s chance…GIMME A FRIGGIN BREAK SON!!!! You have no room in an elevator to even breathe that sentence…don’t even go there.
This game is broken and it’s sad that 8 teams are running the tables and dictating the future outcomes of purchased titles and out-bidding home grown talents away from their fans.. Enough is enough mlb, it’s time to make this game somewhat fair across the board! As it sits right now, you deserve to go the way of the NFL in terms of a loyal fan-base!
Careful there, Cup.
I agree with you, but there’s always a few who’ll point at you and shout, …
“—> Commie sympathizer!!!”
Nothing wrong with pockets of socialistic functionality under the umbrella of Capitalism. Especially when it’s clearly a better long-term, sustainable approach which — as a whole — benefits Capitalistic ideals to a greater extent. (IMO)
Not that I disagree… but
My Padres, and quite a few others, have been feeding the wealthy teams for as long as I can remember. Every so often the team’s window opens up and they keep the rare bird. But for the most part the bottom teams or “small market” teams have long been feeder teams
They finished 2nd despite you’re stupidly in these comments. Everyone already knew that. Thumbs down.
Don’t call someone stupid if YOU’RE also stupid.
On topic: The White Sox deserve this criticism. They cheaped out. In the weak division they play in I believe they have a realistic shot at actually winning it and one of those 2 players definitely could have helped them a lot as their young team continues to grow.
The irony is thick.
Kenny I really don’t care what the excuse is. I don’t care if the contract could have been more and the reality of the matter is that it wasn’t more. Earning 350k through “incentives” is not the same as guaranteed because players like Machado always go for the money. You got cute with the contract knowing the market for Machado was at least 300k. You and Reinsdorf once again failed at signing a premier free agent. Nothing less than Trout next season will be acceptable at this point. You gave sox fans absolutely no reason to look for to this season or fill the seats. The lack of attendance and tv viewership should have been a tell tale sign to make a decent move to bring them back but I guess just pocketing the annual revenue is Reinsdorf’s primary focus. Wake up this isn’t 2005 where the sox where slated to finish last and then come out of no where to win the WS with dirt cheap players. Will never happen again. End rant.
Awful nice of Machado to consider offers that were $200K below league minimum.
That’s the offer I thought the Padres were putting together… Sux
Well, I think the outcome was awesome :0)
But I feel your pain
this dude needs to stop talking. sox play in chicago and are spending less money than oakland or kansas city. payrolls not maxed out. you’re cheap. the portrayal is accurate.
While I agree with you, would you spend $100 over 5 years to sign an on-again off-again Dallas Kuechel in his 30’s just to say you spent money?
Despite what he had hoped for entering this offseason, Dallas Keuchel won’t sniff a 5yrs./$100M free agent contract at this point in time. With the White Sox losing out on Manny Machado and passing on Bryce Harper their need for Keuchel in the rotation beginning in 2019 has diminished significantly. If one of those targeted superstar FA’s had signed then inking Keuchel to a 3 or 4 year deal with a vesting option or two might have made more sense.
For now, the White Sox might as well wait for former ace southpaw Chris Sale to become a free agent next offseason. Can there be any doubt that the White Sox won’t prevail in outbidding the likes of the Red Sox, Yankees and Astros for his service since the front office has once again gone on record in saying that their boss will spend whatever it takes to ensure this rebuild is successful? The clincher will be Kenny Williams convincing Sale that he was merely joking about the Adam and Drake LaRoche fiasco and that the retro-jersey incident was also a cut-up.
Sale has not become a free agent, and because the Machado and Harper signings were like pulling teeth, may very well sign an extension. Keep dreaming.
“cut-up” … good one!
stymeedone: Lighten up pal. My comment, as usual, was drenched in sarcasm, so much so that my keyboard is still wet since posting it.
Btw: I doubt Sale will receive an extension from the Red Sox before hitting free agency next offseason. Doing so would begin costing them this season with an already problematic situation in regards to their luxury tax dilemma. This is what has kept them from re-signing FA closer Craig Kimbrel or any other costly veteran to help a bullpen that lags significantly behind their arch rival in the Bronx.
Sale not coming back.
He is not a team player anyway.
Disgruntled while with ChiSox.
Sale will probably win another WS in beantown and wear a B on his cap to Cooperstown.
chitown311 – manny and keuchel are different circumstances. giving money to a probable future hall of famer who happens to play a position where the organization has 0 depth isn’t “spending money just to say you spent money”
i would not understand the white sox giving keuchel 100/5. while he would be an upgrade over everyone in the rotation this year, they have some long-term SP depth, and keuchel would cost them a 2nd rd draft pick. its a little similar to the reasons harper would not have made sense.
the problem is they have a few replacement/below replacement level players in their lineup and one in their rotation. they could have fixed all of those spots with low-risk free agent deals, but instead they held out for manny, and acted proud of either their failure in missing out on him or their intentional misleading and alienation of their fanbase. and now they’re mad that people are calling them out on their incompetence. they’re snakes.
sss847: To suggest the White Sox have zero depth at 3B is silly. Since second baseman Nick Madrigal was selected as the fourth overall pick last June, Yoan Moncada was speculated to become their core third baseman going forward. This speculation has now become a reality this spring in the wake of the Machado whiff. Moncada is the White Sox third baseman with Yolmer Sanchez sliding over to 2B, keeping it warm until Madrigal’s likely MLB debut next season.
Aside from Moncada who would have been displaced by Machado at 3B and Madrigal at 2B as soon as next season, the White Sox also have another recent former first round draft pick in Jake Burger who was selected as a third baseman. Like Madrigal, Burger was drafted as an advanced bat out of college. Those two join LF Eloy Jimenez as the White Sox best pure hitters in their system. Unfortunately for Burger, he suffered two left achilles injuries last season which has stymied his development until an expected return this June…at 3B. Most scouts were high on Burger’s hit tool but less certain about his defensive acumen at the hot corner coming out of college. His defense at 3B could become even more of an issue due to his twice surgically repaired tendon. Nonetheless, the White Sox are confident in his ability at 3B and even more so with his bat which should at least have him playing at the other corner on the South Side come 2021.
Of course, there was also the possibility that Machado might have displaced Tim Anderson at SS had the White Sox been successful in signing him. Either way, Machado was displacing one of Anderson or Moncada which begs the question: Why was the organization so hot to pursue him in the first place? Where they disenchanted with Anderson and/or Moncada?
Some speculation had Anderson or Moncada moving to the outfield to accommodate Machado. The OF, along with right-handed pitching also happens to be the White Sox two primary strengths in their well regarded farm system. Jimenez is a lock in LF come April while Luis Robert is already being pegged as their future CF come 2020 or 2021. Along with Jimenez and Robert, the White Sox also boast 5 other OF’s among their top-11 prospects per http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2019?list=cws.
What the White Sox do seem to lack in their system is a left-handed hitter with high OBP/OPS potential, one that they could ideally pair with Jimenez in the heart of their future batting order. Bryce Harper could and should have been their primary free agent target this offseason, not Machado. Aside from Harper’s elite and proven MLB OBP/OPS numbers he could have also provided the White Sox with the games best brand not named Mike Trout. This was especially important for a team that has been relegated to second class citizenship in their own city for the past decade and with the Cubs leaving their shared TV network following the upcoming season. The White Sox will be left with the floundering Bulls and Blackhawks come 2020 and needed a star like Harper to help their partnership. Harper would have also brought national credibility to this franchise and helped expedite their rebuild which will now take at least one more year.
For those who suggest that the White Sox can find a better target than Harper in free agency in the next two offseasons, I say: Who is that player? I don’t see a comparable lefty power bat hitting the market any time soon. Anybody expecting Jerry Reinsdorf to outbid the competition for other potential elite FA bats like Paul Goldschmidt, Mike Trout and Mookie Betts the next two winters is out of their mind. If they couldn’t outbid the Padres for Machado and passed on Harper because of the Phillies, Giants and Dodgers does anybody actually think they will compete with these or any other glamor teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs and Astros for Trout, Betts, Goldschmidt, Chris Sale or any other elite FA the next two offseasons?
The Machado and Kuechel comparisons are ridiculous. White Sox are dirt cheap and just playing the fan base as losers.
The White Sox have the money to have signed him they choose not too plain and simple, they will suck and continue to suck for years on end. Sorry to burst your bubbles White Sox fans but the Red Sox did not give you franchise changing prospects for sale and it’s already showing and the owner isn’t willing to lose potential profit to win. Enjoying losing for years to come
Awfully early to write off Moncada, Kopech, and Basabe.
True. But none have looked like building blocks either.
I’m not sure what you consider a “building block” but Yoan Moncada is now the White Sox starting third baseman and is expected to remain so for the foreseeable future. He has had a great spring and the move to the hot corner should benefit his offense going forward. Moncada has always been considered a great athlete, a so-called 5-tool talent. Third base is a more instinctive position, one where Moncada made his MLB debut at with the Red Sox when a need arose there late in the 2016 season. He can now concentrate more on his hitting rather than ponder all the thinking involved with being an elite middle infielder. The 2B job will belong to Nick Madrigal, possibly later this summer but more likely in 2020. Moncada’s shift to 3B has more to do with Madrigal’s potential as a Gold Glove defender there than Moncada’s inability to play the position adequately.
Michael Kopech has consistently been ranked in the upper echelons of all the top-100 prospect lists because of his TOR potential. That potential has manifested itself since the Chris Sale trade, especially when Kopech suddenly found his command last summer at AAA Charlotte. That was the single biggest question mark he faced in his development when a light turned on with him mid-summer, one that continued through his brief MLB debut until that fateful last start when he was diagnosed with TJ injury. Kopech has been recovering nicely and was even throwing some this spring but the organization is wisely taking the cautious route with his rehab. Even with his injury, Kopech is definitely considered a White Sox “building block”, their future co-ace along with Dylan Cease who could debut later this summer like Kopech did in 2018. Each are expected to be mainstays in the White Sox rotation beginning next season.
I think the white sox are closer to contending then the padres, I would of went there,
Padres are closer now with Machado lol
Let me fill you in about CWS’ luck.
Machado with the Padres will have many stellar years and possibly a ring or two in in process.
Machado with CWS however, would have broken his ankle during ST in a freak accident taking Kobe to the vet. He’d windup playing, like, half a season total for us during the remainder of his contract.
Not a chance. San Diego is loaded in the farm system
My favorite is, “there is an argument that could be made that our offer was the better of the two.”
Except to Machado, literally the only person whose opinion matters in this situation. What an odd thing to say.
That phrase is a riot.
There’s also an argument could be made that zero is more than one.
An argument could be made we need a wall along our southern frontier, and Mexico will happily pay for it.
You get the idea.
You can make a bad argument for anything, and it’s still technically ‘an argument’.
Overextended to keep the core together? What core? Even if Eloy turns into Babe Ruth, with nothing around him, the Sox still have the “stars and scrubs” method that never worked. With Sale, Quintana, and Eaton (with Sale being one of the best pitchers in baseball) along with scrubs to round out the team, the White Sox never finished better than 85-77 (in 2012). And how many premiere 26 year old free agents at positions of need are going to be available? None. This year was unique. The front office failed the White Sox fans. I cancelled my season tickets and have no desire to watch any White Sox games this year. Might as well watch Padres games, I’d rather see Machado and Tatis Jr. Lastly, no Kenny, the Sox did not “offer more” than the Padres. If they did, Machado would be in Glendale in black and white right now, instead we are stuck with two scrubs that cost us a promising pitching prospect in Clarkin, as well as freed up CLE to keep Kluber, all to try and entice Machado to take less money. This “rebuild” is a failure. The White Sox won’t be good this year, or any time in the near future, just my opinion.
See you in 18 months, pumping your “die hard white Sox” chest, under a new screen name
It is tough being a Sox fan but I remain loyal even when they make decisions I disagree with. If Kenny didn’t get involved, I believe Hahn would’ve convinced Reinsdorf to get it done. Either way, you’re statement was quite bold. I’m guessing that if the team begins to play well and really start winning you’ll be rallying around them and claiming how big of a fan you are. I know it’s frustrating, dude but hang in there. Don’t throw a middle finger at the rest of the team (that works their tails off btw) just because the front office didn’t sign Machado. That’s a lousy thing to do.
I agree that Williams should of been left out of this deal. I even go as far as saying he should be let go anyway.
Lost in all the warm fuzzys of 2005 is the memory of Jerry breaking up a young core of talent in 1994 before the team had peaked because he had a moody after the owners “lost” a strike that HE instigated.
“I like Harper personally, but he was well out of our range.” LOL, Delmonico, Engel, and Palka with Cordell and Tilson as backups has the chance to be the WORST collection of OF in MLB history. “Don’t stop now boys!”
Don’t forget Preston Tucker!
Hey! A “chance”?
That’s BY FAR the worst OF combo in history.
Kenny Williams, professional spin doctor.
Little miss CAN be wrong.
I don’t think the sox were ever serious about signing Harper or machado. This is the same team that got Griffey jr at near retirement age.
Smoke & mirrors.
If they shock the world and have a great season, good on them. Won’t happen but good on them.
No one wants to play for the White Sox lol. Poor guys
Until they actually spend that money they operate as a cheap organization. If you don’t find it logical to spend on either Harper or machado say so. Don’t lie to your fan base and pretend your in on both just to sell tickets. This wreaks of way to many similarities to the Chicago Bulls. Jerry reinsdorf likely will never unload the bulls do to the profit margins. One can only hope he will at least have his family sell the white Sox after he passes away. This is not me wishing death on him at all, I just want different ownership. I’m tired of his loyalty to his front offices and unwillingness to operate in a competitive manner. His son is just as bad, if not worse. I hope the white Sox draw record low attendance numbers this year, even though they don’t make much money there versus tv contracts.
Kenny is right in that they were NOT being cheap. They were just stupid. Was their offer better? That’s a matter of opinion. Unfortunately the only opinion that mattered was Machado’s and to him it was not. Golden opportunity totally f’d up.
The FO can’t even get players who know how to play. Why would we expect them to get superstars?
Williams clearly did not have confidence that Machado would reach those incentives (otherwise why not just make the highest guaranteed offer?), and it appears Machado agreed with him.
At the end of the day, they should have just given him 10 years 300 million & had a star in his prime who would have made that ball park look small. As a Tiger fan, I was happy to see him go West! He would have been a thorn in our side for 10 years! They tried to get cute & offer him incentives which might have worked if he was 30 but not a guy in his 20’s prime years. He screwed up royally & tried to use other people to pressure him. He should be fired.
The tax issue does rear its head on Machado’s potential from either team. Cali’s top tax rate of 13.3% dwarfs Illinois’ (probably rising) 5%. Add in the divisional games in SF and LA and you have an effective 10% benefit to Chicago’s deal. So the actual difference in take home gets closer to 270mil over 10 vs 250 mil over 8. Chicago had the superior offer. Machado’s accountant sucks.
The one positive you can take as a Sox fan would be the fact the front office at least offered numbers they haven’t ever came close to in the past. At the end of the day we’re talking largest contracts in baseball history here. If this core can ever break out and start gravitating more towards .500, they’ll be a more attractive destination in my opinion.
They need improvements from Moncada and Giolito. If Eloy and Cease can contribute, a .500 second half is possible in a weak division.
The Sox are better off without Machado or Harper. Name one team in any sport that signed a 10-year or more mega deal for a player, and it actually benefitted them in the short and long run. It’s never happened. End of story.
Bobby Bonilla and the Mets. People are still talking about it!
Lol he’s earning $1 million this year
Sox fans say this every year about every big free agent on the market. “Oh… dodged a bullet there.” They are wrong, in so many ways, because they think frugality is a virtue in the sports world. It’s only a virtue if you’re able to invest that capital (money) into something else more lucrative or efficient. This clearly hasn’t happened with the White Sox. Until they change how players perceive their franchise, the Sox will never, ever obtain next level talent via free agency. They’ll be the type of team that wins a championship every 50 years or. That won’t work for me (or anyone else who breathes from their nose and not their mouth). As a result, the Sox aren’t getting one damn dime of my money… ever. No tickets, no merch. Nada.
I’ll refer to my original comment.
There there, at least you have your Cubs bashing to live for.
Lol I’m not a Sox fan that bashes the Cubs.
Was replying to ChiSoxCity
PCOLA SOX FAN
Not signing Machado might be a blessing
Agreed on it being a blessing, at least for more than 250mil guaranteed. It was a solid offer and Padres made the desperate offer. Outbidding the next closest club by 50 mil is nothing to brag about. Hosmer and that expenditure is Hendry like behavior. Not popular to say (especially to really young fans), but spending a boatload for 1 player just isn’t that important in baseball when you talk about the goal of winning the World Series. It is arguably counterproductive unless you are one of the handful of clubs that can easily outspend mistakes if necessary (Yanks, RSox, Cubs, LAD). WSox will need to make several significant $ splurges on reliable veterans (not splashy) next year/beyond to complement whatever prospects pan out. Fact is they don’t even know who can stay consistently healthy that is supposed to matter (Rodon, Kopech, Dunning, Robert, Adolfo, Hansen, Burger, etc). They are a mid-market club. Examples of past would be guys like Zobrist/Cain. If they were further along, an arm like Keuchel-deals that aren’t crazy long in years or crippling guaranteed dollars.
The White Sox aren’t “blessed,” they’re cheap and everyone knows it. The inability to get quality free agents is the main reason they can’t win. 2005 was an anomaly, and this organization has grown lazier because of that one championship. They’ve been trying to catch lightning in a bottle ever since, with mediocre signing after mediocre signing. They’re basically the Minnesota Twins, and I meant no offense to the Twins when I say this.
by 2029, 30 million won’t be in the top 25
The shame is Kenny Williams and Rick Hahn duping White Sox fans into believing they would be players for superstar free agents Manny Machado and Bryce Harper this offseason. Their price tags were projected to be at least 10/yrs/$300M but their cheap boss was not prepared to guarantee market price let alone overpay to get either to join a still rebuilding 100-loss team.
It should also be noted that Manny Machado received a player opt-out 5 years into his deal from the Padres which the White Sox weren’t willing to include. It wasn’t merely the guaranteed money that swayed Machado to join San Diego and spurn Chicago.
This begs the question: Why where the White Sox so quick to pass on Bryce Harper after losing out on Machado? Harper did not even request an opt-out from any team that was willing to sign him. He wanted to finish his career in one city. It turns out that the White Sox never even made a bid for him despite their two meetings. It’s too bad, especially considering Harper’s ultimate final total contract value and its much lower AAV than what Machado received from the Padres and could have gotten from the White Sox. The ChiSox whiffed on Machado and never even bothered to bid on the better lineup and marketing fit in Harper.
BTW: The Padres claim they have added more than $1 million in ticket sales since the Machado signing 10 days ago. The Phillies said they sold 100,000 tickets in the first 24-hours since Harper’s reported signing on Thursday morning. Outside of opening day, the White Sox will be extremely fortunate to put 100k fannies in their stadium for any 10 game stretch in the typically cold months of April and May. I wonder how many White Sox fans have stormed or called the ticket office after their team whiffed on Manny Machado and passed on Bryce Harper? I’m guessing White Sox ticket agents have been as busy as that Maytag repairman in those TV commercials from back in the day.
Actually, the price tag for both Machado and Harper was $400M when Hahn leaked interest in signing one or both last year. Realistically, no one thought they’d get both, but atleast 85% of the media thought the White Sox would sign one of them. There really is no excuse that makes sense why they didn’t make a $300M/10 offer to Machado. Hahn is no fool—he knows that no quality free agents are coming to Chicago (or anywhere else) for less than market value.
I’m not upset they didn’t get Machado or Harper. I’m upset they didn’t make serious offers for either of them.
At this stage, I really don’t want this team contending anytime soon. It’s a fruitless endeavor with this franchise, because they’re philosophy is s##t; completely out of touch with reality.
Ken Williams is the worst GM in major league baseball!
It would be nice to have that downvote now wouldn’t it?! Haha too bad.
Williams is not the GM, fool.
Correct, but he needs to stay the hell out of the way and let Hahn do the job he was appointed to do.
Hahn can do s### if the owner won’t do his job (writing checks). The organization is flush with cash for the payroll. Yet they’re still operating like the Pittsburgh Pirates.
They’re all horrible in that FO! Worst in baseball.
Williams always sounds like he stepped out of a time capsule when he speaks to the media. If the White Sox are a complete joke, and I’m truly amazed and embarrassed by their incompetence, particularly this offseason. And seriously, why is Kevin Williams STILL in the organization. He’s terrible at his job, and no one is buying his excuses anymore. Sell the team Jerry, then go and #%#$ yourself for all anyone cares.
*The White Sox are…
In the end, the ChiSox win. One player won’t make a winner and at such a high cost for that one player, in the long haul, its detrimental for the team as a whole.
You don’t want a situation similar to what the Tigers have with Miguel Cabrera… or do you?
Until the rebuild and the passing of Mr I, the Tigers had no problem filling the team with talent, and winning the division. Is that the situation you are trying to avoid?
I mean, if Machado was about ten years older than maybe you could be legitimately worried about him becoming the next Cabrera
White Sox will have to go outside the organization to finish the rebuild at some point, and players as young and as proven as Machado are very expensive to trade for, so I’m not entirely sure passing on the chance to get one for just money is really that much of a win. Now they have no idea what options they’ll have in the future.
2 million more per season and they’d have had a superstar to build around, so drawing the line where they did is a little odd
Young stars? When did ANY of Moncada, Jimenez, Kopech, Anderson, or Rodon become stars? All of them are still basically unproven. At the very least, they are not yet stars.
The “Black Sox” are still not trying to win. With the Conspiracy theory’s confirmed. The Good news here is, no extra foil needed. The fans on the South Side we’ll still continue making and smoking out of their Foil “Crack Fedoras”.
Newsflash: Not all White Sox fans are from the south side of Chicago.
I see what you did there. Well done, Hilarious.
The White Sox will do whatever it takes to finish second in the bidding for a high dollar free agent.. This is the outcome most White Sox fans expected. The best thing Kenny Williams could do is stop talking.
KW is the proverbial “legend in his own mind”
In reality, KW is Jerry’s Bob Pulford. Wirtz loved Bob Pulford. Just like Jerry loves Kenny.
The ultra reality is that like Pulford, Kenny is an idiot
It’s a different can of worms operating under ‘consortium ownership’ than under one extremely rich dude with the freedom to say, …
“Fiscal responsibility — be damned!”
Except that Jerry is the chair of the limited partnership that owns the Sox. Whatever his percentage of ownership actually is, he has total autonomy.
Can we get a hologram of George Steinbrenner permanently installed in every gm’s office?
Only if we include the estimated value of the Yankees at the time of his passing
A lot of teams seem to need a reminder that winning baseball games is good for the profit margins.
These guys should be fired for total incompetence. You sacrifice signing a great player because you want to save money for what? Some lottery tickets, cuz that’s all these guys are and they’re years from earning any money.
When there’s no season next year don’t blame the players, blame this garbage. A Chicago team, massive media market, with $15.5M in future contact commitment is a sick joke.
This would be a great time to purchase the team. Flush with cash, low valuation, and nowhere to go but up in terms of popularity and marketability.
Who’s going to fire this front office? Owner Jerry Reinsdorf is the very definition of loyalty when it comes to his FO’s.
Remember Jerry Krause with the Bulls? How about their current front office with VP John Paxson and GM Gar Forman? JR won’t be firing his son Michael as President anytime soon either, just handing him over the ownership reigns when he finally retires.
As for the White Sox, don’t expect VP Kenny Williams or GM Rick Hahn to depart until Reinsdorf finally sells the White Sox. If most fans had their way, Kenny would be gone in a heartbeat but Rick still holds promise. Hahn is the man most responsible for talking his two bosses into this much needed rebuild after their failed past policies of reloading, retooling, rebooting or re-whatevering. He convinced JR and KW to start from scratch and has done a commendable job of turning his few veteran assets into so many promising young players and prospects. Hahn was also most responsible as the assistant GM under then GM Williams for negotiating all those team friendly deals to Chris Sale, Jose Quintana and Adam Eaton that eventually netted promising prospects Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe, Eloy Jimenez, Dylan Cease, Reynaldo Lopez, Lucas Giolito and Dane Dunning in return.
The problem here isn’t so much the puppets but the master holding the strings. Nobody expects Williams and Hahn to talk smack about Reinsdorf because that’s about the only way they could ever lose their jobs. What needs to stop is KW and RH making excuses for JR. This is bad PR for the White Sox and their fan base who have been pretty disgusted with Reinsdorf for years now, at least for the last decade and since their last postseason appearance in 2008.
Williams is the main culprit here. He’s the one who always seems to say the wrong things or draw the ire of the fans and players. This happened in his constant bickering with former manager Ozzie Guillen, with the Adam/Drake LaRoche fiasco as well as with the Chris Sale retro-jersey melt-down. It’s not as if some of his rants weren’t justified but rather in the way he went about it. His latest spiel defending Reinsdorf has once again infuriated most White Sox fans. Somebody needs to at least tell him to shut the “f” up but who might that be? A “subordinate” in Hahn or JR, the guy he is defending?
Bottom line: Reinsdorf is the problem here but his front office needs to be smarter in defending or excusing him. If they can’t do it properly they would be better off saying nothing.
Rick Hahn is also the GM who had to trade his top players, because he failed to build a competitive team around them. Who made the horrific trade for a washed up player for no good reason, which cost them a top prospect. Who has adopted a draft strategy that has has produced little ML talent, intensifying the need for trades. You can criticize Williams all you wish, but at least his strategy created competitive teams, one which led to a ring. Hahn has lead one of the worst stretches of the team’s history. If this season goes sideways, it won’t be because of anything Williams did. Hahn doesn’t deserve any faith.
Ah 20/20 hindsight is awesome eh?
Lets breakdown why your entire comment is a fail:
-Hahn was trying to build a club based on the tight purse strings of the org.
-Tatis was not a vaunted prospect when the Sox traded him, he was just another player.
-The Sox last few drafts have netted them some good prospects (who are only lower on the prospect list because Hahn, yes that Hahn, traded for quality prospects for the talent here that was NOT winning anything here), and better than KW ever offered. I’m sorry but what talent did KW really bring up? Oh that’s right, he drafted ‘athletes that never saw the bigs (heck many did not see AAA) he also traded the little he had away for has been’s and never will be’s, and sent GIO Gonzalez away not once, but twice!).
-KW is the blind squirrel looking for the acorn, he got lucky.. once. and never got the team back to the playoffs on a consistent basis. Heck one could argue he ruined their chances to repeat by trading Rowand (and Gonzalez) for Thome after the 05 season.
-I love how people cannot figure out the concept of a rebuild. It will not be pretty now, no matter how much some fans want to sprinkle magic pixie dust on a club for them to get better. Could these prospects miss? Sure but it was a heck of a lot better than KWs plan was: Patchwork a mediocre team together then blame the fans when it does not work.
– Before anyone knew who Tatis was, the trade was bad. Shields was already on the decline, and had a bad contract. They cut Latos, only to give away players for a less effective pitcher. Had Tatis stunk, it was a bad trade.
– The White Sox were spending plenty of money before the rebuild. Many of deals were made. They all amounted to a team that still couldn’t break 500. And again, some of the moves looked bad the moment he made the, like LaRoche, Keppinger (his first move) and Shields.
– If you think trading for Thome was a bad deal, you are on an island
– KW wasn’t the greatest GM, and he needs to go too. But at least his teams were competitive. Hahn is amassing one of the worst records of any executive in the majors.
– Until we see one of Hahn’s actual picks do anything, I reserve the right to be skeptical. Thus far, his record is no better than Williams.
They both stink. Hahn’s rebuild is on shaky ground.
Hey Shields was a misfire if only because of the contract taken on, but wasn’t your contention that they ‘gave away’ a great prospect for Shields (even though no one thought at that time he would be that good)?
Thome was not the wrong part, it was who they traded to get him that I think many would agree ruined the makeup of that team as a whole.
What planet were KWs team competitive? You must have been watching a different team than I was. What, one season after the WS win, and taking game 163 to get into the payoffs? When they had a decent team, the yahoo then brought in puppet Ventura, who had no respect in the locker room, to mismanage the club for 5 seasons and refused to admit it mistake after the 2nd year of that pact? It was not Hahn; don’t blame him for the poor play on the field. Hahn made many moves that a lot of folks thought were good at the time.
The rebuild is not on shaky ground, only someone who doesn’t understand the concept of a rebuild would think that. Rebuilds typically take 4 seasons (at least). Just because Moncada has had issues and Kopech had to get TJ (which many pitchers need these days) does not mean the rebuild is on shaky ground.Now, if Eloy and Cease both fail (along with any of the OF guys like Robert, Aldolfo, and guys like Hansen, Dunning)? Then maybe maybe it becomes that way, but this was not going to be a pretty process and most fans should understand that (and Hahn did not say anything different than that by the way)
Shields was a bad trade, period. It shouldn’t have been made.
KW not only won a World Series ring, he had 9 winning seasons to three losing seasons, and his low win mark was 72. Rick Hahn has never won more than 78 games and has three seasons where the team won under 70 games.
I understand fully what a rebuild is. This one is looking shaky. A lot of prospects took a step back last season, and the team failed to land a single long-term piece of any significance. While Eloy and Cease look like keepers, almost every other prospect had a red flag of some sort, be it due to injury or regression. And again, not a single one of Hahn’s top picks has looked like a sure-fire contributor to a winning team. Stop acting like Rick Hahn is dome genius. He has done nothing to earn that level of respect. All he’s proven so far is that he can build teams that lose a lot of games.
Kenny caught lightning in a bottle in 2005. Everything he did after that subtracted from the Sox success.
He presided over the worst farm system in the league.
For years the Sox literally wiffed on ever draft.
Hahn’s record is pretty bad.
But don’t deify Kenny in the process.
He was bad
Reinsdorf needs to sell the team to someone willing to pay to win. I knew none of the top free agents were signing with the White Sox. Kenny Williams, you’re wrong. Duped fans once again.
Sure JR sell the team, only to get a bigger miser owner that will further dismantle the club to cover the cost of buying it.. good plan
Yeah, except the Sox were originally going to be bought by DeBartolo…which the league, led by Steinbrenner and Jerry’s BFF Bud “How Was I To Know They Were On Steroids?” Selig.
It was entirely possible the Sox would have put up a winning club for years until DeBartolo imploded.
Just some opinions:
-I find it interesting that the Cubs trolls on the forum are knocking the Sox saying they will not be any good because they are cheap. I guess those cub fans are trying to distract from the reported comments that their team is in such financial straits that they could not make a run at golden boy Harper, OR maybe their mgmt realized that 300+ Mil on Harper or Machado was not worth it.
-If the haters are White Sox ‘fans’, then go away. JR is cheap, but you knew that already which means you either tolerate it and still watch the games, or you are just trolling.
-KW needs to shut up, every time he speaks he (further) alienates fans (if not the players). All he should have said is that they have top talent coming from the minors, that talent that will need to be paid (and yes the Sox are run like a small market team, but until ownership changes, which is unlikely, it is likely to stay like that so deal or stop watching and stop trolling). If Eloy does turn out to be everything everyone claims he is, it will likely cost the Sox somewhere around 400-500M when he is about to become a FA.That is just Eloy, if they hit on even a quarter of those prospects it will cost them.
-Manny and Harper are not worth the money paid to them.(lets not forgot that there was not exactly a huge fight for getting Machado or Harper in the league folks) One could argue that guys like Trout (whose only knock IMO is staying healthy) are worth ceiling busting money, but you have one guy who is insanely over-hyped in Harper getting 330 Mil, and another guy with characters issues in Machado getting 300M, from the place where bats go to die, by the way. My guess is both clubs will be regretting it in about 4 years, with no championship to show for it. If that happens, do you think their fans bases are just going to say ‘well they gave it a shot’? No they will have pitchforks and torches out folks (especially in Philly).
-I hope the lesson the Sox learned here was that signing a Brother in law and a good friend does not mean a guy will take a cut rate.
-People complain that JR is too cheap, and I think all fans see it. However, guess what occurs if someone else buys the club? Likely a Fire sale or trade all the talent to get even cheaper guys (to cover the cost) and more years of futility (see the Marlins)..
I mean, it’s a lot easier for the Cubs to justify not committing to another 30 million in payroll when they’re already at the Luxury Tax threshold… When the Sox and over 100 million under it in the same media market, then it really becomes hard not look cheap…