Angels shortstop Andrelton Simmons departed last night’s game with an ankle injury. Fortunately, x-rays were negative, but he has at a minimum suffered a “very bad sprain,” Maria Torres of the Los Angeles Times was among those to report on Twitter.
At the moment, there’s no way to know what kind of absence might be anticipated. Simmons is due for an MRI today that will surely give a fuller picture of the damage incurred. He appeared to torque the joint quite forcefully after lunging to first base in an attempt to beat a throw.
The Halos also saw DH Shohei Ohtani leave the game in the same inning. He was struck by a pitch in the right hand. X-rays were also negative in his case, with manager Brad Ausmus indicating that his injury was of lesser concern.
It’s already a tough spot for the Angels, who sit three games below .500 and 9.5 back of the heavyweight Astros. With Justin Upton still sidelined and the rotation still scuffling, it’s tough to see a path to even Wild Card contention that doesn’t involve a huge performance from Simmons, Ohtani, and the peerless Mike Trout.
Fortunately, the club does seem to have the ability to shift some pieces around to cover for any absences. Zack Cozart is probably the most gifted shortstop in the world that doesn’t play that position for a MLB team, so he can slide over there with David Fletcher and Tommy La Stella sharing second and third base. If the team wants another lefty bat to go with Jared Walsh, it can recall Justin Bour.
Ok.
OK? Based on all your comments against the Angels, you have serious issues.
That’s an awfully aggressive take on Cozart
I think the comment on Cozart is about his defense. He might be right. However Cozart couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat and he couldn’t hit a baseball if he had an oar.
Agreed
He has always been an exceptional defender. Obviously wasn’t a comment on his present hitting ability.
No worries. They have Brian Goodwin
I was at the game last night and watched it all go down live….these 2 back to back injuries totally took the momentum away from the Halos and the life out of the fans left in the ballpark when it happened. Hope they both heal fast and the team can pick them up.
Bummer. Simmons was having a great ball around season.
Simmons is always having a great ball around season. his loss is devastating.
I have no doubt that Ohtani could eventually hit LH pitching, but he has to be protected. He’s too valuable. One pitch like this next year and the Angels dramatically impact any chance they have to compete.
Having your #2 pitcher and hitter go down on the same pitch is something most teams can’t recover from.
Ausmus is Scoscia 2. This club isn’t winning anything.
Probably not this year, but compare this team to next years team.
Ohtani back pitching. Heaney hopefully back. A full season of Channing. Adell in in RF. Upton back. The Angels will be close enough to take all that money they spent on Havey, Cahill and Allen and go after a starting pitcher.
It was never about this year. They thought they might be able to tread water and if things broke right, they could complete. They are treading water, but things are not even close to breaking right.
We’ve been hearing this same exact “but look at next year” spiel for a decade now.
We have 1 postseason appearance, 0 playoff wins and going on 5 straight sub-500 finishes to show for all that blind optimism. Meanwhile nothing at all changes but the names of the next supposed powerhouse club we are waiting for.
By the way, next year they already have 116 million allotted to just Trout, Pujols, Upton, Simmons and Cozart plus buying out Calhoun. That leaves only around 50 million to fill the other 20 roster spots, including 3rd year arbitration raises for up to 7 players.
They are not going to have much money at all to target a bunch of high end Free Agents, just like they didn’t last year or the year before or the year before and on and on. The salaries of Trout, Upton and especially Pujols are crippling this club, with those 3 alone set to make 89/90 million in 2020 and 2021.
Really? The last two years the Angels expected won loss record was 500 hundred. That’s a starting point.
Yes, things have gone wrong. But who were these great players that going to make this team that much better. Health would have helped, but who are the minor leaguers that would have meant the difference?
Who is the best player to come out of our minor leagues in the last six years?
I haven’t been hearing it. But you can hear what you want.
First, I wanted to specifically address this line from your first comment:
“The Angels will be close enough to take all that money they spent on Havey, Cahill and Allen and go after a starting pitcher.”
Exact numbers on that quote:
Harvey – 11 million
Cahill – 9 million
Allen – 8.5 million
28.5 million off books
Pujols – 1 million raise
Upton – 3 million raise
Trout – 20 million raise
24 million added to payroll
So losing Harvey, Cahill and Allen will add just 4.5 million in spendable funds, which might be enough to cover the 3rd year arbitration salary raise of Heaney and otherwise may not result in a single penny to add a FA (and know you know why they only gave out 1 year deals this past off season)
So I suggest you stop counting backwards with subtractions when trying to figure out salaries. It often gets you absolutely no where, as you can see in this instance
Then, I guarantee I could go back a couple years in the comments and see you saying something to the extent of “we have Shoemaker and Richards and then Heaney and Tropeano and Skaggs and Nate Smith and Alex Meyer coming up to go with Trout and Pujols and Calhoun and Cron and Giavotella with Cowart and Kubitza and Hinshaw about ready, while we just drafted Ward and Jones and Long and Fletcher and yadayada, things are looking amazing for next year and beyond!”
It’s been the same exact thing for years.
And yes, none of the prospects that look fantastic in locations like Orem, Inland Empire and Salt Lake City ever actually pan out in the majors. Weird, isn’t it? But don’t worry, I’m sure Ward and Thaiss and Rengifo and Adell and Marsh and Jones and Adams and on and on will all be different. Because, well just look at what it means for next year!
I loved Richards. Shoemaker was nothing. Tropeano was nothing. Nate Smith? Alex Meyers? Calhoun and Cron and Giavotella with Cowart and Kubitza? Are you kidding me? Exaggerating much?
Money is a fair point, but your calculations are wrong. Calhoun is gone, that’s ten million. Trout is not getting a raise. He’s actually getting a slight pay cut starting in 2021. Where are you getting 20 million for Trout?
38 million is coming off the bucks. Some will be countered by raises and arbitration but there is money to spend.
Maybe Canning and Adell will stink. Maybe they wont spend that 30+ million. Maybe they are not going to spend until both Cozart and Pujols come off the books. Maybe they wont stay remotely healthy again. I’m a bit more optimistic than you.
First, you’re retroactivelydiscounting the Angels top prospects that I’m sure you were in love with back a few years ago, just like you are in love with this similar crop now
Second, again, they do not have 30 million!
Trout makes 17.7 million this season. Next season? 37.7 – a 20 million dollar raise.
As I said before, add in the additional 4 million in raises to Upton and Pujols and you have 24 of the 28.5 saved already accounted for to just those 3 guys
And I also counted in Calhoun, if you read my comment again:
“By the way, next year they already have 116 million allotted to just Trout, Pujols, Upton, Simmons and Cozart plus buying out Calhoun. That leaves only around 50 million to fill the other 20 roster spots, including 3rd year arbitration raises for up to 7 players.”
So again, stop counting backwards with the subtractions – it is getting you no where!
BP’s “Cot’s Baseball Contracts” has all future commitments lined out for you …use it!
And when you use it for the 2019 Angels you see 116 million in commitment to just 5 guys – meaning they have merely about 50 million total for everyone else (and that means most likely no big FA splashes)
Where are you getting 17 million for Trout? He’s making 36.8 million this year. I use Baseball Reference. And BaseballReference has the same 115.5 million to those same five guys.
The Angels are only going to have a 176 payroll next year? Man, you are a pessimist.
Other than Skaggs, Heaney and Richards, I never thought the players you mentioned would amount to much. And Skaggs and Heaney are still here. They just can’t stay healthy, which has always been a problem.
But if the Angels cut payroll to 176 million next year and Skaggs and Heaney are hurt.and Adell and Canning are not very good. Then they’ll be an expected 500 team again.
Just like this year. And last year… And the year before.
” First, you’re retroactively discounting the Angels top prospects”
You are 100% wrong. I took a lot of heat for saying Aybar was better than Wood. I took heat saying if McPherson was so good, why is Amezega playing over him in the ALDS.
Other than Trout, I haven’t been high on players coming out of the farm system. I was high on Richards. As for Skaggs and Heaney. The Angels acquired them in trades. That said, I like them both, but they can’t stay healthy.
Oh wait, I was high on Kotchman. But other than Trout and Adell, that’s about it.
Baseball-ref is using his old committed salary.
The extention Trout signed this offseason renegotiated his 2019 salary down to just 17 million. As I said, use Cot’s, because what you are currently trying to do to figure out payroll is making you extremely wrong
Then, the Angels opening day payrolls last few seasons
154 – 2014
146 – 2015
164 – 2016
166 – 2017
166 – 2018
158 – 2019
So yes, the Angels will have an opening day payroll around 165
Then 116 + 50 = 166 (not 176) and going from 158-166 to 166 is not “cut(ting) payroll” – it’s staying perfectly the same as it’s been for years
Lastly, I flat out don’t believe for one second you were never praising past top prospects despite their marginal status, seeing as you praise current top prospects despite their marginal status
Lets do it this way. Cotts has the Angels payroll at 158 million. By the way, sportstrac confirms that amount.
1) If that is their payroll, then Arte is saving a lot of money this year. A lot.
2) if that is their payroll next year, then they are going to be in trouble.
That total is 45 million under the cap. If they are going to be 45 million under the cap. Then you should be worried about 2020. I will be too. I think health and Adell are great additions, but they need to get that payroll well above 158.
I keep saying over and over that payroll will be around 165 – why do you keep changing what I keep saying?
And payroll has been between 155-165 almost every year for 6 straight years – why in the world do you expect it to jump up?
It certainly can’t be the words of Moreno himself, as he’s on record very explicitly saying this before the 2016 season: (a year they had a team high 166 opening payroll)
“It has never been with the (Luxury Tax) threshold. …We have a budget, and every year, I’ve overspent our budget.”
For years Angels fans have been saying they are going to sign big FAs, and for years I’ve been trying to explain this to you all. It’s about as black and white as it can possibly be – the teams opening day payroll should never be expected to be much, if any, above 165! Arte’s explicitly said to expect it, he’s shown as clearly as he can he’s adhering to it (6 straight years he’s shown it now!) and now it’s just a matter of people like yourself finally accepting it as reality yourselves
The 2020 payroll will be roughly 165 million, to maybe 170 range – you can probably feel safe placing a bet on it today.
And yes, we have merely 50 million to fill those 20 roster spots, as I said from the start. With so little depth or above average quality players expected to come up, it means 2020 is likely going to be just like 2016-2019. (As I’ve been saying)
Also, Adell will most likely not be with the club long, if at all, in 2020, and shouldn’t be expected to produce much of anything even if he is (he’s only 19, with just 17 games above A ball and 149 games total in his pro career. Plus he’s hurt now, so he’s not advancing at all at the moment. They are idiots if they rush him up as a 20 year old with such little professional experience.)
RF is currently wide open in 2020, with no real money to spend
Are we disagreeing all that much?
It doesn’t matter. 158. or 165. If that’s what they are going to spend, then be worried. I’ll be worried to.
The Angels can’t fix the holes they have if Mike Trout gets a raise of 20 million and their payroll doesn’t jump a like amount.
If the losses of Allen, Harvey, Cahil and Calhoun are mostly swallowed up by a Mike Trout raise, then the Angels boat next year is a little better than the boat they are in this year, but not a lot better.
The Angels cannot be expected to compete for anything other than a second wild card if they don’t go out and sign someone like Cole, and they can’t do that at 165 million dollar payroll.
And don’t confuse me with other Angel fans. I say what I say and I seldom have said they need to sign a big money free agent. Most years it doesn’t make sense, but next year it does. And if not next year, when?
We can disagree about Adell. I think he’s going to be a huge help next year… Provided he stays healthy.
You’ve tried to argue against every single thing I’ve said, giving blatantly incorrect information and the rosiest outcomes possible in the process – now you’re saying we’ve basically agreed?
Any way, if there was ever a year to blow out the budget it was 2015, with the team coming off a league leading win total in 2014
What did Moreno do in 2015 though? He trimmed payroll by almost 10 million! (From 155 to 146, specifically)
He might add a little for 2020, but expecting an opening day commitment over about 170 is a foolish bet – he’s explicitly said and shown not to for years and years.
So once more, we probably have about 50 million for 20 guys – and that doesn’t leave enough for good FA adds (And as I said to start, and you finally seem to be agreeing with now, that will likely give results just like the last 5 years. Nothing at all looks poised to change much, despite the decade of “well next year though!” claims from Angels fans)
As far as Adell, know how many 20 year old rookies have posted above roughly average player seasons the last 40 years? 10; just 10.
The currently hurt Adell, who has less than 1 full season worth of games in the pros and only 17 above A ball, is not one of the top 10 prospects of the last 40 years and should not be expected to produce like it. He needs time in the minors still, and if he doesn’t get it, results shouldn’t be expected to be good in 2020. They could, and likely would, be disastrous even
“Lastly, I flat out don’t believe for one second you were never praising past top prospects despite their marginal status, seeing as you praise current top prospects despite their marginal status”
By the way.. Don’t care. You don’t know me and you are wrong. Name the last time the Angels have had a #2 BP prospect? How many top ten prospects have the Angels had in the last 15 years? Three? You think I was high on Trumbo or Cron? You’re just nuts? I wasn’t even all that high on Richards until he got here.
As far as free agents. I don’t think I have ever advocated the Angels go after a big money free agent player. I haven’t cried when they did, but I don’t believe I have ever advocated it.
You keep attributing positions to me that I don’t have. How many #2 BP prospects have the Angels had? Not many. So I like Adell and I’m crazy?. I loved Mike Trout as well. Was I nuts?
The Angels have not had too many top ten BP prospects over the last 15 years. . But I did like most of them. I liked Wood and McPherson a lot less than most. I didn’t think they would be total busts. I liked Kendrick, Kotchman and Trout. Other than Adell, I think that’s the entire list. And you equate that to Cron and Kubicza? Seriously? I like Canning, I think he’s the best pitching prospect since Weaver? I think he’s going to be a solid mid-rotation starter. Very high floor.
Why should he have blown out the payroll in 2015? Did I advocate that as well? If you are going to resign Trout, the Angels need to sign an Ace. If they don’t, then there is not enough.
So if I go searching comments, I’m not going to find you praising how great the future looks with the likes of Rengifo, Thaiss and Ward about ready to come up? Because I’m pretty sure I’ve seen you saying just that (and even here you keep including Canning, who is expected to probably settle in between the #3-4 starter range.)
If not, my mistake – but please understand 90% of the Angels fans around here keep screaming just that for some odd reason
Also, do you know who Adell’s top comparable is? Melvin (aka BJ) Upton
Adell is a 19 year old raw tool guy. Those tools might eventually turn into huge success – or they might turn him into the next Delmon Young or BJ Upton – or they could make him the next Ruben Rivera
Regardless what he’s eventually going to be though, he needs time to refine those skills! We do know rushing up a raw tools guy at 20 years old does not have a great track record. So it doesn’t matter what you want, what you are likely to get is probably something very different if they do follow your desires
And all of this new conversation is for what? Just to hide the fact you argued forcefully against me with blatantly incorrect information just to end up saying we were agreeing?
I’m not going to reply to the new rants as it’s been addressed, and I don’t know why you’re giving it anyway (I can only assume just trying to further hide the meat of the conversation)
But I will address this:
“Why should he have blown out the payroll in 2015?”
Best record in the AL in 2014, with expectations they were possibly going to the WS …and he cuts 10 million off payroll for 2015 – that leads you to expect this next one is the year he will blow-out the budget, after their 5th straight sub-500 season and no real above average minor league reinforcements coming in 2020 to fill all the many holes?
There is talk Buttrey will possibly be traded. All indications are they are not gearing up for a run like you seem to expect them to – instead they seem to be preparing to continue to run in place, as they have for years, trying to stay in the ballpark of 500 so Angels fans keep the very blind hope you keep expressing here.
It’s been a dog and pony show for years, and it will likely continue to be the same dog and pony show into the future.
“So if I go searching comments, I’m not going to find you praising how great the future looks with the likes of Rengifo, Thaiss and Ward about ready to come up? ”
No you wont find my praise. I am low on Ward and Rengifo and I think Thaiss can be a serviceable major league player. Search.
Are any of them top 100 prospects? If a player isn’t a top 100 prospect, why should I get excited about them? If you can’t crack the top 100, what kind of prospect are you?
I also said Fletcher can’t hit on many many different occasions. I think I said Ward had a higher upside than Fletcher. Which based on my opinion of Fletcher, wasn’t saying much. Fletcher has surprised me.
And I probably would have been high on BJ Upton as well. And Buxton. And virtually anyone that BP has in the top five.
I probably wasn’t that high on Wood because I liked Aybar better and we already had a Glaus. But if there was room, I might have felt differently. I liked Glaus. As for Kotchman. I was against the Teixiera deal.
You can blast me for Kotchman. I completely whiffed on him.
2015? I think they thought they were set. What player did you want to add? They had six staring pitchers. Six really good starting pitchers. And that’s not even counting the 7th who made the all-star team. They just didn’t perform. Anyway, you could have been screaming for it, I wasn’t. When they traded Kendrick they should have added a second-baseman. Other than that, they were pretty looked to be really good.
And if the Angels trade Skaggs and Buttrey, then you are right. They are not going for it in 2020.
I don’t think it’s been a dog and pony show. I think they expected to have reasonable health. They haven’t. When you are not healthy and you have no farm system, You’re not going to win.
Scossia won a World Series and was the best team in the league a couple times after that.
Shoooooosh
Except Cozart is horrible and sports both OPS+ and wrc+ in the negative 7 range.
Negative seven range at what? What is range?
As far as shortstop, the last year he played it he was ranked 8th in the major leagues (fangrpahs) Simmons was #1,
He can’t hit, but the last time he played short, he could play short.
I’m fairly certain he isn’t referring to “range” as how much space Cozart covers defensively. I believe he is using the term as an approximation – ie. Cozart’s offense is currently sitting AROUND -7wRC+.
It’s actually at -8 today. That happens to be the lowest in baseball for all players with at least 80 PA’s.
It’s easy for me to criticize the Angels front office on several moves over the years (Pujols, Hamilton, Wells … uhhhh … that one still hurts). But the Cozart signing is different. Really thought they got a bargain but Cozart has just been awful. Hopefully he can put the injury bug behind him and put up something in the 80-90 wRC+ range. That would make him well worth the contract.
I’ve been saying for months that last year Cozart was a bad third-basemen and I was skeptical if he could play third this year.
I don’t think he can. If he’s saying he’s a bad thirdbaseman, I agree. Not as bad as a third baseman as LeStella is a second baseman, but pretty bad.
Cozart was 32 and had one great hitting season in his career, the year prior at 31 in an infamous hitters park.
Signing him at 32, moving him off his defensive position to a hitters one, and putting him in an extreme pitchers park/division was not the makings of a good move at all.
If you can’t walk after an ankle sprain —- it is a 3rd degree sprain. A minimum 6 weeks to heal and then and additional few weeks of continuing rehab. Out for 8 weeks and will not see Simmons until end of July to sometime in August.
Retired trainer
Can’t walk is a relative term. If he doesn’t want to put weight on it but can walk, then it wont be 8 weeks. If he can’t walk, he’s in trouble.
I was hoping the Angels could tread water until they got healthy. It looks like they are not going to be healthy anytime soon.