Star third baseman/outfielder Kris Bryant filed a grievance against the Cubs in regards to their decision to call him up to the majors for the first time April 17, 2015 – one day after he’d have been able to work toward a full year of service time. Many viewed it (and still do) as a clear act of service-time manipulation on the Cubs’ part. A decision on Bryant’s grievance could come by next month’s winter meetings, though it’s doubtful he’ll win, Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times suggests. Regardless, there aren’t any hard feelings between the two sides, president of baseball operations Theo Epstein and agent Scott Boras indicate in Wittenmyer’s piece. But are the Cubs primed to extend Bryant, who has two expensive seasons of arbitration eligibility remaining? It doesn’t seem any recent long-term talks have occurred, but “Theo and I are talking all the time, and certainly when he and ownership want to discuss anything along those lines, our ears are open, no doubt,” Boras said. The Cubs’ most recent offer to Bryant came “long before” last year “and for much less” than the $200MM-plus the club was rumored to have put on the table, Wittenmyer writes.
Here’s more on the North Siders…
- While the Cubs aren’t in danger of losing Bryant yet, they are facing the departure of free-agent outfielder Nicholas Castellanos. Although Castellanos starred for the Cubs after they acquired him from the Tigers at the July trade deadline, Chicago’s probably not going to re-sign him, Sahadev Sharma of The Athletic observes (subscription link). Not only is Castellanos likely to end up earning more than the Cubs are willing to spend – MLBTR projects he’ll reel in a $58MM guarantee over four years – but their corner outfield mix may be too crowded to bring him back. The team already has Bryant, Jason Heyward and Kyle Schwarber among its option in left/right.
- If the Cubs were to retain Castellanos, “they would have to aggressively try to deal Schwarber,” Sharma posits. The Cubs regard them as similar players, according to Sharma, and for good reason. They’re both offensively adept corner outfielders who are arguably defensive question marks. However, the Cubs don’t believe they’d get an appealing enough return for Schwarber to trade him, and they’re reluctant to deal him after the excellent second half he posted in 2019, Sharma hears.
- More from Sharma, who relays that center fielder Albert Almora’s “a strong possibility” to stay with the Cubs because he lacks trade value. The free-agent market for center fielders is weak, and Almora has three affordable years of arbitration control left. Those factors, not to mention his age (26 in April), could boost his trade value. However, the production Almora recorded in 2019 may offset the positives. He hit .236/.371/.381 with a disastrous minus-0.7 fWAR across 363 plate appearances. Still, Chicago seems unwilling to give up on Almora via trade or non-tender.
That’s not how this works but they should have left him down longer outside of super 2
It wouldn’t have delayed his free agency. It would of just told fans maximum profits is more important than winning. Plus, it would of sealed his fate that he wouldn’t stay once he became a feee agent.
I do not understand the Cubs thinking. They would not trade Schwarber 2 years ago because he was having a down year and his value was down. Now he has had a good second half of 2019 and they do not want to trade him because he is playing well. Whats up with that?
The market is down for corner OFers. His defense won’t get any better. He’s got just two years of control that will probably cost $20 million total. He works hard and may just reach his offensive potential yet. Theo still has a mancrush on him.
Really? That makes total sense. They saw his upside potential and knew they couldn’t get enough for him. Now his value is obvious and they see an even higher upside potential that will help them win.
OF is also not a position of depth right now, so if they traded him, they would have to replace him.
That is why Contreras is the obvious trade target for many teams. Good young catchers that can hit are a rare commodity and the Cubs are the only team with two of them. The Cubs can do major improvement at other positions but still have a good young catcher.
Almora’s obp was .271, not .371
Wow, he only walks by appointment?
16 of them last year bringing his career total to a whopping 64.
When the cubs let Fowler leave, CF was Almora’s job to lose. He did exactly that with his poor hitting. Cubs fans still complained about Maddon not playing Almora more. What a joke.
So all Cubs fans wanted Almora to play more last year you claim? What a joke you are
No one said all Cubs fans.
Bitter much?
Lots of outside chatter but if the Cubs are going to try to win in 2020, none of those guys will be traded for differing reasons. And if Ricketts wants to keep the baseball operations to a budget, irrespective of current contractual obligations, he’s not only hamstringing the front office but he’s a damn fool.
twentyforty;
The front office hamstrung itself.
1. Bryant has no interest in extending.
2. The cubs are regressing (ranked 28th in hitting contact, 28th in fielding, bad bullpen, mediocre starting pitching, etc.).
5. cubs are not a postseason team anymore.
4. If Theo fails to act this offseason, he’s pretty much punching his ticket out of town.
So keeping Bryant makes absolutely no sense for the cubs, unless they’re trying to win it all in 2020. That would require increasing the payroll, which the Ricketts family won’t do. There really is no other option.
agree
Ya Chooch.
While I normally disagree with a lot of what you post b/c you are a Cub hater – I will say most of what you said is correct. I have said all along – Bryant needs to go – while they can still get something out of him. The Cubs (overall) had a regressed year, but I really don’t believe it is something that will be the normal. Cubs will be back in the post season if not 2020, 2021 (more likely 2021 unless the Brewers and Cards sit idle) As for Theo, don’t believe he is going anywhere soon – I think he will decide to leave on his own terms – unless the Cubs don’t even finish with 70 wins.. then maybe.
Those are really the facts. The Cubs need to make some moves that most fans won’t like. Now is the time to move some of the core. As hard as that might be for fans to deal with.
You count like my 3-year-old. 😉
I was a precocious child, what can I say?
They need to offer in an extension for him to extend. Which is likely never to happen. Next to impossible to stay is his agent will convince somwhow get him to leave.
Bryant’s agent says he is interested in extending with the Cubs.
Scumbag
The Cubs were fun and a feelgood story for a few years.
But the good steaks have been eaten, and all that’s left are older, tough steaks along with even older and tougher steaks that management brought in.
Alas, what’s left is the sizzle that can be found in articles on them in the sports sections of the Internet. Some loyal customers keep showing up thinking the quality will reemerge, the smart ones have moved on to other establishments.
So much for that dynasty
The window is still wide open for the dynasty to happen. Only the talking heads were talking about a dynasty anyway.
Uh, no. The window isn’t even close to wide open, and it was the genius fans talking about a dynasty.
Uh, … the window is closed. Reboot time.
Yes. There are no dynasties anymore, but the Cubs could contend for many years.
The dynasty looked likely at one point in time. Theo had a collection of highly regarded minor league assets and a core of young ML’ers. He’s either traded them away, signed more poor contracts or they’ve regressed since then. With the exception of Contreras and Baez.
It wasn’t a ridiculous take in 2016. They looked about as good as the Stros back then.
Well illustrated.
1) Gleyber Torres
2) Jason Heyward
3) An owner committed to colluding with his fellow owners to establish the payroll tax as a salary cap.
Three reasons the Cubs are toast.
I’d take the championship over Torres anyday.
Keep on moaning about the past brother.
What a beta-male. Enjoy that one championship for the rest of your life then.
I certainly will cherish 2016. The pure joy that generated can’t be beat. Didn’t 2005 feel good?
It won’t suck until the Cubs are sellers at the trade deadline.
Remind us again how many World Series the Omaha Sox have won in your lifetime? Oh, yes. 1. Winning is not easy
They could’ve had the championship and Torres, but they were way too in love with Schwarber.
And why not? Kyle’s offensive ceiling at the time was similar to Bryant and Rizzo. Torres was still a couple years away.
A homerun onto the rooftop determines…that is a lie
Exactly! Hindsight being 20/20… I wouldn’t change a thing.
You honestly think that the owners are colluding over that and aren’t just being independently greedy?
Yes.
I don’t think they are colluding but enough signals have been sent to make it a trend.
I love how people talk about Torres as if that deal was a disaster. They won a friggin’ World Series on that trade. No Chapman, No World Series. That may be the greatest trade in the history of the franchise.
Trading Torres for a ring wasn’t that bad a move
Except, the cubs didn’t trade Torres for a ring. They traded him for a 3-month rental of a relief pitcher.
LOL. Chapman pitched in 13 games that post season and struck out 21 batters in 15 2/3rds innings pitched. He basically won game 5 of the World Series for them and nailed down the NLDS as well with 3 saves. Had a bad outing against LA when the game was already out of reach. Gave up the huge HR to Cleveland in game 7 but then rebounded to get the Cubs out of the next inning before they won it all. Winning the World Series when there are 30 teams in MLB is insanely hard to do – hence the lack of recent repeat champs. But ok NY won that trade given they don’t have a WS title since it happened. Good one.
I hope the Cubs trade Bryant to the Braves they could definitely use him and could put a nice package of prospects/players together for him
Johan Carmago max fried and a mid level prospect would get it done. Josh Hamilton returns to his orignal organization on a 1 year deal. Certain incentives turn it into 3 years.
You braves fans make me laugh
Fried is not getting moved.
I know but If the Braves want bryant they’ll need to try fried
I think you’re fried.
Nope. You know as well as I do. I’d the Braves waa want Bryant it will start with Max Fried
Not a chance in hell that get’s a Bryant trade done if Bryant has two years of control left. No chance. They’d have to give up something more along the lines of Fried, Pache and at least one other prospect who projects as a solid (not great but solid) ML player to get Bryant. You’re talking about a guy who would immediately make the Braves a favorite to win the NL that can play 3B or OF and who would save them money over Donaldson or Rendon.
Its gonna have to be a 4 for 1 deal.
If it doesnt include Fried then it will include 3 of their best prospects Newcomb or Greene
You’re talking about a guy who would immediately make the Braves a favorite to win the NL
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The Braes finished 9 games behind LA. But if you replace a 4.9 Donaldson with a 4.8 Bryant, that’ll make them the favorite?
Comping WAR numbers and holding all else equal isn’t a very interesting argument for anything either. They’d be behind the Dodgers in all likelihood but the Dodgers are set to lose Ryu. Jansen has been steadily declining and they have no other viable alternative.
The Braves have a bunch of young pitching that could take a step forward and they went out and got Will Smith. Far too early to make any determination about who is the favorite but it’s not ridiculous to suggest.
No chance the Braves include Max Fried in any trade.
They should trade Bryant, no matter what. Use the money to sign Castellanos. If they don’t, Bryany gets hurt again, Cubs lose and Epstein is gone. The Rickets ONLY real concern is money. Winning is nice but money matters a lot more to the. Want money AND winning? Dump Bryant, sign Castellanos and keep the rest of the core.
The Ricketts only concern is money? They refuse to let theo spend to improve the team. Money should be the least of their concerns.
You are aware they are sitting on $185M in payroll already next year, right? $185M. And they have the following guys coming up for UFA in 2022 (Bryant, Rizzo, Baez, Schwarber, Almora). Oh and Contreras comes up in 2023. They pretty much have to make some deals right now. And if they trade Bryant they should be looking to get a good haul of cost controlled players and then use the money on whatever holes remain. as opposed to throwing money at Castellanos just cause.
The one trade I can see happening is
Bryant – Dustin May and a couple of young guys
Dodgers are craving a ring but Rendon is not the type of guy the front office likes to give long offers to.
(They’ve already talked about moving Turner elsewhere so third base is open as well)
They’d like Bryant as a two year rental and the Cubs would love to have some potential top of the rotation talent.
Dodgers are not going to trade May when they could just sign a 3B. Rendon and Donaldson were more productive last year than Bryant.
More likely, the Dodgers use their mighty young assets for Lindor.
Bryant had a higher BA, OBP, OPS, OPS+, and wRC+ than Donaldson
1-The LAD don’t really need Bryant, since they can still play Turner at 3rd.
2-If they want to make an over the top move, which could be justified, they can always opt for the one-year, but superior talent in Betts. And i am not sure it would take anything more than May to land Betts. So you have some competition for LA’s prospects.
Schwarber should have been traded after their WS win when his value was at its peak. Bryant will never re up with the Cubs so get the best value as soon as you can. If nothing changes they’ll just sink further in the standings in 2020.
Well put. I said the same thing 3 years ago. Completely agree.
And you guys are independently wealthy because you can time the stock market, too!
Schwarber’s peak value was 1.5 years of Andrew Miller. instead, they dealt Soler for a year of Wade Davis. They were never trading both. While Soler had a great offensive season, his inability to stay healthy has already forced him to being a DH. And before you go on about Schwarber being a terrible LF, he had a -1 DRS. He’s basically league average at the lowest priority defensive position on the field.
It certainly doesn’t say much for Kyle Schwarber if his ‘peak value’ was following a season in which he went hitless in 4 regular season AB’s before getting injured and could only DH or PH in 7 World Series game.
At the time of the Torres Chapman trade, I heard the Yankees wanted Schwarber and Theo said no. Yankees settled for Torres. I don’t know if that’s true but it’s what i heard.
Wow, 4 whole at bats?
Yes. Schwarber was 0-4 in his first game of the 2016 season. He then walked in his first PA in game #2 before tearing his ACL and missing the remainder of the regular season. Kudos to Schwarbs for rehabbing fast enough to be a huge offensive factor in the Cubs 7-game World Series victory over the Indians.
Darvish “has an inability to stay healthy”, and they gave him $125MM for basically three years of work. Soler cost them virtually nothing.
We don’t know the last four years of Darvish yet. I’m sure he’ll spend some time on the IL, but how much is uncertain. I like his chances to be as good as he was in the second half and to be as good as Kyle Hendricks has been.
Except for last year when he DHed, Soler has missed 50-100 games due to injury every year. Excuse me while I borrow Doc Brown’s Delorean so I can transport 2019 Soler to 2017. But we’ll have to kill the 2017 version that hit .147 once 2019 Jorge gets there. Or will that cause the 2019 Jorge to disappear too?
Never mind the undisputed fact that Wade Davis pretty much carried the Cubs to the NLCS in 2017. This Omaha fan loves to view things in a vacuum. Davis made the Cubs a title contender that year. Where, exactly, was Soler going to play in 2017 / 2018 on the Cubs? It’s almost like Mr. Omaha doesn’t get that teams have windows to try and get the brass ring and that windows open and close. The Cubs window BTW is all but closed. They’ll contend again for the playoffs this year with the current roster. But very unlikely they can win it all. And come 2022 the window is going to be locked tightly closed unless they start dealing some of their core players to replenish longer term. The time to deal is NOW.
You have no idea If he will or not. They could offer him an extension in 2 years and he could very well sign it. They havent offered him anything yet
When his value was at his peak??? He had exactly five plate appearances that season and was coming off major knee reconstruction. I’m sure there were teams lining up for that….
Schwarber’s value is at its all time high right now. Good lord some of you are dense. After the WS when he was gimping around and could barely run?
The Cubs only played themselves by holding Bryant back. If they have him for the 1st month they likely win the division and not have to start the NLCS on the road and give them a much better shot at beating the Mets. If they win in 2015 they break the curse and dont have to trade Gleyber in 2016.
The cubs were 5-3 when kris was called up. How much of a difference do you think he would have really had in those games?
Ummm no he was not called up after 8 games.
um yes he was. This is easy to look up. Not sure why you’re arguing against a fact.
Umm yes he was
John real-time is acurate. Go to Baseball Reference and see for yourself. There’s maybe one game that he could have made a difference. Not enough to change the final standings.
@amk3510 – do some research, the information is readily available.
The season started on Sunday, April 5. Bryant’s first game was April 17th. The Cubs played 8 games in that span, having not played on April 6, April 7, April 9, and April 16.
His mlb he went 0-4 with 3Ks vs a very good james shields.
OMG! Bryant is SO overrated. Trade him. He will not re-sign with the Cubs so let some other team overpay.
If they have him for the 1st month they likely win the division
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Just checking B-R on this. Bryant’s 1st game was 4/17.. They were 5-3. So you are assuming that the Cubs would be 8-0 to make up the 3-game deficit. In addition, 2 of the 3 losses were by 3 runs and 4 runs. So you are assuming that Bryant would’ve hit a grand slam in each of those losses.
Trade Schwarber, Sign Castellanos. I’d much rather have the professional hitter than a .230 hitter who strikes out whenever you need a a hit. Maybe “Chicks dig the long ball”, But baseball fans like professionals.
Castellanos’s performance w/ the Cubs was unlike any other stretch in his career.
…and it wasn’t any better than what Schwarber did in that same time frame.
Castellanos was clutch for the cubs. He’s motivated and looks focused for some prime years. Schwarber is not clutch, and strikes out with regularity.
He’s had plenty of clutch hits , put down the pipe
Chi Sox, are you trying to compare Schwarber to Yoan Moncada?
“Castellanos’s performance w/ the Cubs was unlike any other stretch in his career.”
He also spent his entire career in a gigantic ballpark that suppressed his power numbers. It’s not all that surprising that a lot of those doubles turned into home runs once he was traded. All things being equal, if I had to pick one of the two to replicate their August+ numbers, I’d pick Castellanos 100 times out of 100.
As a Cubs and White Sox fan I’d still rather see Kyle Schwarber’s lefty power bat on the southside than Nick Castellanos righty bat. I wouldn’t want either as a regular in the White Sox outfield but Schwarber would make more sense as a DH among the two.
I also believe that White Sox special assistant to the general manager Jim Thome might agree with my assessment. I’ve heard Thome praise Schwarber often in interviews, complimenting him by saying Schwarbs very much resembles himself when he was a young slugger with the Cleveland Indians. Thome loves Schwarber’s approach as a patient slugger who works the count, draws plenty of walks and absolutely crushes the ball when getting his pitch.
It’s pretty apparent the Cubs will finally be dealing one of their core young players this offseason. In my mind, Schwarber makes the most sense. I could then see the Cubs bringing back Castellanos to take his spot in the outfield and batting order assuming new manager David Ross doesn’t turn into another Joe Maddon and stick Nicky in the leadoff role.
Completely correct!
Justinept, Schwarber hit .304 during that timeframe, but he is a career .235 hitter. That same argument could be made for Schwarber then.
Schwarber dos have the better career OPS+.
They dont even need to trade Schwarber to re-sign castellanos. This article makes no sense. Looks like either a brewers writer or cardinals writer wrote it. Schwarber plays left castellanos plays right. Its simple. They play.corner OF spots . Trading Schwarber only hurts them.
Except playing two C graded OFs together is bad baseball. That’s why you trade Schwarber and put Castellanos in LF, or let Nick walk and find a true CF who can hit.
Trading Schwarber is just dumb. That like people last week suggesting the cubs trade Hoerner and Contreras for Merrifield. That’s a horrible trade for the cubs. They want to stay young not get a guy that found his stroke st 30 years old
Merrifield is a .295 career hitter who has put up a career 15 WAR over 4 full seasons. He will be 31 next year. Agree there is no way the Cubs trade Hoerner and Contreras for him. But spare the notion he’s just figured out how to hit at age 30. He’s a good player.
Uncle Mike, you are an idiot.
From reading all these reports, it appears that Kris Bryant, Kyle Schwarber and Albert Almora are staying put. It doesn’t take a baseball genius to surmise that SS Javier Baez and 1B Anthony Rizzo are also not going anywhere anytime soon.
That pretty much leaves C Willson Contreras as the Cubs prime trade bait which is too bad since backstops with his athleticism, hitting tools and cannon arm are rare indeed for the position. Whichever teams lands Contreras will be the beneficiary of a huge talent. Theo better land pieces back that will solve glaring needs on the Cubs roster, namely a proficient leadoff hitter and an impacting SP who can miss bats. The Cubs certainly won’t be saving any money in dealing Contreras since he had been pre-arbitration eligible up until this offseason. Moving him will only cost more in salaries unless they restrict their return to top prospects which seems unlikely for a team with a narrowing window to compete.
If the Cubs truly wanted to remain competitive while also improving their chances to remain so for an extended period they ought to be shopping 3B Kris Bryant this offseason. Bryant is scheduled to earn huge dollars in his final two years of arbitration eligibility before hitting the FA market in 2022. The Cubs would be wiser trying to trade him for that young stud top of the rotation pitcher and future top of the order hitter. They could then take the arbitration/extension dollars that were earmarked for Bryant and throw them at free agent 3B Anthony Rendon this offseason. That strategy would seem to be Theo’s best win-win option, one where the Cubs could win now AND win later.
Why would they trade a top 3 C. Possibly the best catcher in baseball
I wouldn’t trade Contreras. He has three years left, I would use him up .You can still keep him after that or not.
It should be clear from my comment that I do not endorse the Cubs trading Willson Contreras and would prefer them dealing Kris Bryant instead.
That being said, most of the rumors this early in the offseason have focused on Contreras as the most likely Cub player to be dealt. That primarily stems from the fact that the Cubs have system depth at the catching position with a productive young backup in Victor Caratini and a top-100 prospect in Miguel Amaya.
Grandal and Realmuto are hands down the best catchers in baseball. Last yèar it wasn’t really even close. Framing matters and Contreras isn’t good at it.
Framing doesnt matter and Realnuto isn’t even half the catcher Contreras is on defense . Grandal and realnuto are good. They don’t come close to what Contreas does as a catcher
Framing does matter. Why did Theo dump Beef Castillo in 2015 for Miggy Montero?
Absolutely clueless
Because Castillo wasnt any good and Montero was cheap
Wrek305 “Framing doesn’t matter” hahaha #ThatsCub
Wrek30516: “Because Castillo wasn’t any good and Montero was cheap”. LOL
When the Cubs acquired Miguel Montero from the Diamondbacks in December of 2014 they also inherited the last 3 years of his 5yrs./$60MM contract. Those last 3 years ($12MM, $`14MM, $14MM) amounted to $50MM of that original deal.
Meanwhile, Welington Castillo earned $530k in 2014, his second season with the Cubs when he became their primary starter under manager Rick Renteria. Castillo’s salary jumped to $2.1MM in 2015.
Castillo was expected to be dealt during the same 2014-2015 offseason when the Cubs traded for Montero and also signed free agent David Ross to be a backup and newly acquired FA ace Jon Lester’s personal catcher. The Cubs wound up keeping Castillo until mid-May of 2015 when they finally dealt him to the Seattle Mariners. Ironically, the Mariners then ‘flipped’ Castillo to the Diamondbacks a couple of weeks later where he essentially replaced Montero as a significantly cheaper catcher.
If they keep Bryant, you can one more to the list of dumb decisions made by Theo Epstein and his front office.
Theo will need to be blown away to trade Bryant or Contreras just as Hahn was when Quintana was traded.
Needless to say, Theo Epstein will be seeking a trade that blows him away for either premium player who are each young, productive and still have multiple years of arb-eligible control available to them. The same could be said for Indians President of Baseball Operations Chris Antonetti in trade talks regarding star SS Francisco Lindor this offseason.
The trade you mentioned was not the best comp. Rick Hahn was looking to maximize top prospect talent that was close to being MLB ready when he swung the Jose Quintana deal with the Cubs in July of 2017.
The Cubs are hardly in the midst of a rebuild this offseason and I would be shocked if Theo was willing to sacrifice either Kris Bryant or Willson Contreras for a package consisting of prospects, even those considered elite and who may be near MLB ready. He may seek one top prospect but I’m guessing he will prioritize a significant upgrade to the Cubs active roster for 2020 and beyond.
Theo only has two more years remaining on his most recent Cubs contract and I’m not looking for him to undertake a rebuild anytime soon, at least not while he is still employed on the northside of Chicago.
Right, they will be trying to win it all in 2020. That’s why it’s unlikely they trade Bryant, especially with him making over $40 million the next two years. They may need to throw in some cash to get the players they want back whether they are prospects or not.
They could trade Contreras for prospects and go with Caratini and a veteran backup that would play a third of the time and cost less than Willson.
They very likely are not going to “win it all” with the current roster. A playoff team? That I can see. Running the gauntlet? Hard to envision unless a lot goes right with the bullpen. And everything Epstein has said clearly suggests they are going to deal from the core right now. Bryant, Baez, Rizzo, Schwarber, Almora (who is worth a bag of chips) all are FAs in 2022. No way they can afford to sign more than 2 of those guys come 2023. Lester is also a FA in 2022 who has a buyout after this year. I could see the Cubs listening on any of those players. You don’t enter trade negotiations knowing how the market is going to shift around you. Let’s say you eat some of Lester’s salary. You don’t think some win now team isn’t going to take interest in Lester for say $10-12M this year knowing they can buy him out? If you are the Cubs this offseason you are willing to listen on every player on the roster. I saw one reporter suggest the Yankees trade for Darvish by swapping Ellsbury plus prospects. So Ellsbury is owed $26M for one year. If the Cubs take that money off the Yankee’s books they just turned Darvish into a $15M a year pitcher until he hits FA. That’s good value for NY compared to paying $30M a year for someone like Cole. In turn the Cubs could request 2 of NY’s top prospects in return. Again, anything should be open for discussion if you are the Cubs.
I would almost want to agree with that statement IF Bryant didnt win a MVP award in 2016 and if it wouldnt make Rizzo mad and not resign with the cubs when his time comes. Rizzo is the franchise player there NOT Bryant. and Rizzo is followed by Baez as the face of the franchise. Bryant is looking out for himself and his career and you cant really fault him for that. He has to look out for himself and whats best for his family. If you think that the Rickets family cares that much for KB you are mistaken. They only care about wins and profit dollars made by those wins not the player and not winning it all. Rickets family is starting to remind me of the Tribune company when they owned the franchise.
Yes, sure. How exactly is Ricketts or any team supposed to afford Bryant, Baez, Contreras and Rizzo long term? You are aware how service time works, right? And where the Cubs payroll would rest in say post-season 2023 even after Lester and Heyward are gone if they inked all these guys to long term deals. The issue is obvious, they can’t afford, and no one could afford, to keep all the bright shiney toys. So they will look to trade some of them now and gain younger players with more control and smooth out their service time bubble.
The Cubs will be able to afford 3 of 4 of them no problem unfortunately they’ll need to trade Bryant. Get back at least 3 players for him. A 4 for 1 or 5 for some with 1 ML ready player isnt out of the question either. So any team that wants Bryant will basically need to e.pty their farm for him
Remind us all again the last time the Omaha White Sox were relevant?
Rules are rules Bryant! There are NO exceptions for “well it’s obvious I was ready to get promoted to the majors.”
Renegotiate the CBA!
Stop crying! You’re already
rich. It’s not a good look!
Not all teams violate that ‘rule’ as blatantly as the Cubs did. Some of them have even have better ‘luck’ in extending their top young players and prospects to contract extensions well before they can hit free agency. In the Cubs case it hasn’t worked for Kris Bryant and likely won’t before he is either traded or hits free agency in two years.
The only weeping I see from Bryant or his agent Scott Boras is ‘crying fowl’. The only real crying I’m seeing is from some Cubs fans who might lose their beloved 3B sooner rather than later.
It could be that Bryant will have the last laugh when all is said and done with Theo Epstein crying on his way out the door, owner Tom Ricketts moaning over lost revenues and Cubs fans weeping over what might have been.
I think Houston did the same thing with Springer.
The Astros did do just that when George Springer had his MLB debut delayed until April 16, 2014. Of course, Springer has yet to agree to a contract extension that foregoes any of his free agency that is set to begin next offseason. Unlike Bryant, Springer did agree to a 2yrs./$24MM extension that avoided arbitration in 2018 and 2019 but he will be arb-eligible this season. Springer also doesn’t employ Scott Boras as his agent.
Are Aaron Supoznik, Uncle Mike and Chisoxcity the same guy?
I think they are just code names, for Merkin.
No unlike chisoxcity Aaron is intelligent
Chisoxcity and chitown311 are obviously the same guy. (Get ready for the intelligent k response from chitown)
Theo’s magic has run out – at least in Chicago. Let’s look at some of his recent moves…
Free Agents Signed:
Jason Heyward 8y, $184M
Yu Darvish 6y, $126M*
Craig Kimbrel 3y, $43M**
Tyler Chatwood 3y, $38M
Brandon Morrow 2y, $21M
Daniel Descalso 2y, $5M
Trades & A Major Mistake:
Traded Eloy Jimenez and Dylan Cease for Jose Quintana.
Traded Jorge Soler (48 HRs last year) for one year of Wade Davis.
Traded Gleyber Torres for one year of Aroldis Chapman.***
Traded Tommy La Stella (was on pace for 32 HRs last year before getting injured) for a bag of peanuts.
Traded for Nick Castellanos.****
Brought back Addison Russell and is paying him $5M next year.*****
* = There’s still hope but definitely a bust thus far.
** = Will need to have stellar 2020 and 2021 campaigns to avoid the bust label.
*** = They did win the WS that year, in spite of Aroldis being mismanaged and pitching like crap in the WS, so some might defend this trade.
**** = A good move but one that was forced by Castellanos and the Tigers couldn’t find a better offer.
***** = This is where Theo lost a lot of support from fans. This wasn’t necessary at all. No room for La Stella but you have room for Russell? So glad Russell sucks now. Theo our Cubs fans in a terrible position with this one.
Trading Soler, who cannot last more than half a season playing the OF, was not a mistake by any stretch of the imagination.
Neither was trading LaStella who has had two good months in his career. And Chapman did not pitch like crap in the World Series….he gave up a home run on a good pitch….the other 7+ innings were pretty good. And unless we missed something they haven’t tendered Russell a contract for next year so we don’t know that they are paying him $5 million.
The magic may have run out but his good moves far outweigh the poor.
His good has not outweighed his bad since 2016. That’s 3 straight years of more bad than good. He’s earned more than 3 years but the indicators are pointing in the direction of him either “moving on” or being replaced if they don’t win another title by 2021. Admittedly, that’s just me guessing but it would be hard to convince me otherwise.
I agree that he has to DH and trading him to the AL was a necessary move – but there’s no arguing that they lost that trade. That’s all I’m pointing out.
Kimbrel had 10 days to get ready for his 2019 season debut. Get off his back. I guarantee if it was anyone else that had 10 days of a very short sided spring training on your team you would think he sucked too.
Yu Darvish had the best stretch of baseball where he had 45+Ks and no walks..
They traded eloy Jimenez(he has proven that was a mistake. dylan Cease has done literally nothing yet.
Heyward has won 3 Gold gloves in his first 4 years his offense has.improved greatly since his first year.
Torres should have gotten them Chapman and severenio back. I’ll take a world series all day for that Torres. And he was blocked by Baez at SS anyway.
No, buddy – Kimbrel sucked in later September as much as he did his first week on the job.
And you’re making a lot of excuses for everyone else: you paid Darvish $126M to get one good month in the first 2 years? You paid Heyward $184M for gold gloves and a .770 OPS? I hoping you write my paychecks soon.
Yu had 8 starts his first year. You can scrap that year. Darvish was great this year with one of 2 starts here and there where he got blown up. 126 mil is gonna look like a major discount with the demand Boras wants for Cole. He’ll probably start at 300 mil for 9 years. Any real fan of baseball will tell you that anything more than 5 years for a pitcher is dumb.
We’ll never see a pitching version of mike Trout pitching in the ML level at 19 years old. Kerry Wood was 21 or 22 when he struck out 20. The final one he admitted 20 years later when he pumped his fist that’s where his elbow issues started.
Wood and Prior could have been great but injuries happen. 5 years max for a pitcher. I guarantee you that at least 4 pitchers will be hurt this year and need TJS.
I think Bundy came up at 19 years old. To your point, I know he’s not .that good But he is the last one I can recall coming up that age.
A lot of asterisks there.
Were Jimenez, Cease, and Soler going to help them win in 2017? 2018?
Russell will be non-tendered
A lot of the moves were sound baseball decisions at the time. They have remained competitive through the timeframe and still will be competitive in 2020. Yes a lot has not worked out(overpays, minor league pitching prospects) since the WS win but much more than expected worked out before they won. No reason to think that something will work out this offseason to help them win the division.
Torres for a World Series win…..take that anyday !
And has not developed 1 pitching prospect to help the big club.
I watched just about every Cubs game and Schwarbers 2nd half HR and RBI totals came mostly when the game was out of hand or they were getting smashed. His .198 avg w/RISP reflects he’s just not a clutch hitter. Holding on to #1 picks too long has been Epstein’s biggest mistake, Happ, Almora and Schwarber are not core players , but in Chicago , popularity is more important than talent unfortunately.
Yep.
Bull
In fairness, Kyle Schwarber didn’t have a whole lot of practice of hitting with men in scoring position since former manager Joe Maddon insisted it was a good idea for him to bat leadoff not just once, but twice during parts of two different seasons. The same might also be said of Kris Bryant’s relatively poor RBI production based on his high SLG hitting primarily in the #2 spot. But what do I know as a 64-year old die-hard baseball fan who doesn’t always grasp the genius behind advanced analytical thinking?
Schwarber had 103 ABs with RISP. Mike Trout, who just won the MVP and batted in the middle of the lineup for the most part, had 93 ABs with RISP.
Schwarber play 3 games in the regular season. then was a DH for 4 games and struck out once as a pinch hitter at Wrigley
ramonskee: Your comment is skewed and off-base. Try this:
With RISP, Kyle Schwarber had 130 PA’s, 103 AB’s and 51 RBI’s. He also started 139 games. In those 139 starts micro-managing Joe Maddon had Schwarber hit in every batting order slot except for #9. Schwarber was named the leadoff hitter by the ‘Genius’ in 56 of those starts.
With RISP, Mike Trout had 133 PA’s, 91 AB’s and 56 RBI’s. You stated Trout “batted in the middle of the lineup for the most part”. Fact is, the equally ‘genius’ manager in Anaheim, Brad Ausmus had Trout batting #2 in all of his 133 starts last season.
Your point escapes me. Attempting a comparison of Schwarber to Trout is ludicrous on any level. What’s equally ridiculous is the batting order placement of these two players.
Schwarber has no business being an MLB leadoff hitter. He’s best utilized hitting somewhere in the middle of a batting order depending on a team’s level of hitting talent. With the Cubs talented group, Schwarber should have primarily been a #5 or #6 hitter versus RHP.
As for Trout, he’s the prototypical #3 in my ‘traditional’ baseball universe, one where any teams best all-around hitter should bat.
Wrong.
Why would the cubs need to trade Schwarber at all to re-sign castellanos? They have 0ver 50mil dollars off the books. 20mil from Cole Hamels alone. Trading Schwarber doesn’t need to happen to retain castellanos. That honestly sounds stupid.
You can live with one corner outfielder who is not great on defense, preferably in left field. Castellanos should be able to adapt to it. I’d rather keep him because he hit in clutch situations with the Cubs. Heyward should be in right, not center.
In 51 games with the Cubs Castellanos had ZERO errors. All year Schwarber had 6, the same as golden glover Heyward. Watch a game first, then comment.
Schwarber has had less than 15 errors his entire career that includes catcher.
Measuring outfielders’ (or any other position for that matter) defensive abilities by the number of errors they make is ludicrous. Castellanos made no errors as a Cub, but hits dropped in front of him regularly and balls got by him down the line into the corner and into the gaps on a regular basis. Schwarber has similar issues, but adds to it by taking terrible routes to fly balls. He, too, ends up chasing balls that have hit the ground because he lacked the speed or the range to get it in the air. You don’t get charged with an error when you go pick up the ball after it’s stopped rolling. For a full season, you would need some hybrid of Curt Flood, Paul Blair, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays and Mike Trout playing centerfield to make up for the defensive weaknesses of Schwarber and Castellanos on the corners.
You are failing to factor in the raises all of these players will get in arbitration – Bryant, Schwarber, Baez, Contreras, Almora, etc. The Cubs are sitting on over $185M of payroll already. It isn’t as simple as saying so and so is gone. Other players get more money too. That’s how the rules work. They can’t afford Castellanos and build a roster without trading other pieces. And Castellanos isn’t going to win them a world title.. He’s going to get $60M over 4 years from someone. It won’t be the Cubs unless they move other pieces.
Plenty of teams take advantage of that
They should do what they have to to retain castellanos. Even if he regresses he’s more than worth his offensive price tag in modern baseball. Especially if you play heyward in the other corner. He’ll be playing 20 yards of field with a shortstop to help him out 60% of the time anyway.
How are they going to afford Castellanos. They are sitting on $185M of payroll already. And it isn’t like they can just sign him now and figure out all the trade chips easily later. Castellanos is almost certainly gone. It was a great move. The team didn’t get over the hump. They have got to start moving real pieces around the chess board. The window is pretty much 3/4ths closed. Start retooling now.
Until the Cubs improve there bullpen and get a fifth starter, anything else doesn’t matter.
To the people suggesting they keep both Castellanos and Schwarber …. are you suggesting they move Hayward to center? Or just hoping the NL gets the DH before the 2020 opens?
Yes, keep him in center.
The Cubs and other like minded teams are obeying the CBA so they are protecting an asset for as long as possible. As much as it’s sucks it is legal.
How about a hypothetical Schwarber to the Rays for Brendan McKay, straight up? The Rays could use some power and Schwarber could bounce around getting PA’s at 1B, LF, and as a DH. McKay would be a high upside arm that would get an opportunity to hit in the NL.
Gotta do better than McKay
McKay
Liberatore
Lucius Fox(this would have been great if Matt Harvey didn’t have a mental breakdown and Fox was a catcher.
Good luck getting the Rays to stop laughing uncontrollably with that offer. Both McKay and Liberatore are SIGNIFICANTLY more valuable than Schwarber on their own.
Your trade ideas are always terrible Phillies.
Wrek, better than McKay? Why would the Rays give up 6 years of team control for McKay for 2 years of Schwarber. They would never agree to that straight up, let alone with additional people involved.
Baez not going anywhere…..neither is Almora…or Schwarber…..or Happ…..or even Russell…..
maybe Contreras…..if only we can get a great haul of top prospects……..but for sure, Bryant is out the door……….so this might happen around December trade meetings.
Russell is gone. Maybe back to Oakland.
If say for tanner Roark but he’s a free agent. He’s from Wilmington Illnois that’s only an hour from Wrigley. So a 1 year deal wont be that bad
The A’s don’t exist to take the crap other teams don’t want. Not even for free. Russell brings with him more problems than he solves.
Russell could get non-tendered in the next several weeks. Why would they want to pay him $4-5M next year after arbitration?
In his 4 years with the Cubs, Heyward has earned about $100 million and contributed 7 WAR. 4 years, $86 million to go. What a boat anchor.
What a baby just play the game. Borass likes to rule.
Boras is a talentless leach of an agent. It’s kinda of shocking he didnt get Altuve to walk from extension talks .and move on
Boras played four years minor league ball for Cardinal and Cub organizations. Hit .288 but succumbed to knee problems. Give him some credit.
I love Schwarbs for his attitude and character, but how can he be compared to Castellanos as a player? If the cubs want more offensive production, the answer is clear.
I’ll compare them. Schwarber hit .280 with 20 HRs and an OPS of .997 in the second half last year – that’s in 225 ABs vs. well over 300 in the first half when he was a much worse player. Castellanos is going to fetch $15-18M a year for 4 years on the open market. Schwarber is going to fetch $8M next year via arbitration. The Cubs if they don’t deal some of their core players are sitting on a payroll of over $185M already. I really don’t have to talk about Castellanos when I take all that $$$ into account. And by the time the Cubs figure out who they want to trade this offseason Castellanos may already be off the market.
Question for Cubs fans….can Bote adequately play 3B if Bryant were to be traded? I ask with the idea in-mind that the Cubs are trying to shed some payroll while trying to win in 2020 and fill certain holes from 2019.
I think the question should be: Can Happ adequately play 3B? Bote’s more of a utility infielder.
Happ and Bote are both utility players. both can play at least 6 positions. 7 for Happ as he can play center.
Wasn’t entirely sure if the Cubs have quit on Happ or not. Bote on the other hand is under contract for the next few years.
Either way if they are looking to cut payroll and think they can still be a contender by dealing Bryant they should strongly consider it.
I think even if you move Bryant, you’ll need a 3B from outside the organization. I would like to see Happ moved as part of a package to a team like KC who could use a versatile inexpensive player. The move of Bryant, in my mind, provides an opportunity to restock the farm system while you go out and sign a 3B. Even if there is not a financial savings, the opportunity is there to make a huge impact on a farm system lacking in much to work with while also making room for a FA addition that keeps you from losing too much by losing Bryant. I think you can look at Contreras and Schwarber as other opportunities to do this. Yes Contreras is an offensive beast with a big arm, but he’s a poor pitch framer. He’d bring a huge haul and replacing him with a better pitch framer (which Caratini is even) helps in additional subtle ways. We have a chance to shift some key players for youth talent and still fill those roles with FA. I think that not only shakes up a team that needs it, but it also helps our much depleted farm system. It will sting to lose any of those fan favorites but I think those are the types of moves we need to be looking at.
I agree with others, Bote is more of a utility player. Personally think Baez could man 3rd base with Hoerner playng SS, but that is just my thoughts. Bote/Happ/Russell to play second. If the Cubs do want to keep Bryant (tho this would be the year to trade him), they should move him to LF and trade Schwarber for some possible bullpen help. Ideally, they also trade Almora (maybe for a bullpen piece). I think they’ll either non-tender Russell or use him as utility and maybe he can build his trade value up a little. Would love to see Costellanos back, but not sure they’ll shell out that kind of money (unless they backload it knowing Bryant will walk in FA in 2 years)?
Hopefully see some willingness and eagerness from the FO to make some moves and even more away from some of the 2016 players that have no progressed.
With luxury and payroll issues they should be non-tendering Russell.
Can he play 3B adequately? Sure. Is he anything more than a stop gap on a team looking to retool and contend? No. He’s a good role player on a contender or a servicable every day player if they can get production from another position that isn’t as prone to produce offensively as good 3B produce.
gcg can the Cubs win with Bote or someone else at 3B if Bryant is traded? And if Bryant is traded what is the return the Cubs need?
Nope.
From what I’ve read, im getting the feeling the Cubs have pretty much given up on Happ. Wouldnt be surprised to see him dealt by the new year. Plenty of clubs would be willing to bet on his upside and value the versatility he provides.
Happ still has value. He was sent down to work on his swing. Once he figured it out, he was brought back up and kept his K% to a manageable 25% with an .898 OPS.
Happ banished to minors in March for complaining. Never really got a fair shot last year. Just another Cub player who spoke out of turn and suffered for it. Montero Lake felt the wrath also.Montgomery
Kris Bryant & Yu Darvish for Roman Quinn, Adonis Medina, Seth Lancaster, Matt Vierling & Luke Leftwich.
Cubs get tier 2 prospects but shed 45mil with Phils taking on all of the Darvish money.
#itsoktodream
I looked up those guys because I never heard of any of them.
#Youcanwakeupnow
So basically you want the Cubs to give away Bryant and Darvish and the Cubs main benefit is shedding $45 million which they would lose in ticket sales anyway with that move.
Amazing how you even thought that was a good idea
They can just make a “Super 5” kind of rule for free agency. It would need to be way lower than the 22% mark they use for Super 2, maybe just 5% or something… just enough to make it impossible to predict the exact FA cutoff down to the day 6 years in advance.
That, or have some kind of Franchise Tag where a team can just pay a premium price for a 7th year (QO x1.5 or something).
Listen soyboy, it was in the rules that the Cubs can do that. If you dedicated yourself to not striking out when the game is on the line as much as you do to filing grievances, you might be an ACTUAL superstar. Trade this Boras moron already, please!