Studies around the game are investing significant resources into the study of players’ health, and though we know all change is bad and everyone hates it, baseball could soon turn to the model-based resting patterns that has swept through the NBA in recent seasons, per The Athletic’s Eno Sarris.
Technological advancement has already clung to the pitching side of the game, where Driveline and pitching labs have entered the common vernacular. Studies continue to work towards a better understanding of pitcher health, including looking at spin rate changes as an indicator of future injury. The naked eye can only gauge so much in terms of a player’s fatigue level, and the goal here is to put as much precision into the process as is scientifically possible.
Pitchers’ rest has obviously been a key part of the modern game, but it’s the position player side that might lean towards an NBA-style model-based resting program. It’s not uncommon, of course, for players to want to play everyday or even insist that their play improves the more often they’re in the game. Sarris provides Marcus Semien as an example – Semien feels days off knocks him out of rhythm.
There’s certainly validity to Semien’s line of thinking, but the counter would be that a day or two of feeling off in the box is worth it in the grand scheme of a 6-month long season. Tracking acute stress versus chronic stress is one of the key issues in managing player fatigue, and there’s more than one philosophy on how to manage it. It’s difficult to quantify the impact of fatigue on player performance, but there’s little doubt it plays a significant role in the game. In fact, it very well might be the area of greatest impact of which we know the least.
Of course, getting enough information to make a model-based resting program would mean cooperation from the players. There’s a fair amount of data acquisition possible through wearable technology, but if players aren’t invested in these programs, it will be difficult to progress. Players have plenty of reason to invest themselves in this brand of technological advancement, but they also have cause to be wary. If data collected is owned by the teams, players are put in a vulnerable position – as said data could be used against them in contract negotiations.
As pitcher velocity rises and injuries continue to threaten their livelihood, expect this conversation to gain traction, and don’t be surprised if the data ownership conversation spills over into the next round of CBA negotiations. In an increasingly flattened competitive landscape, teams already view health as a new frontier to gain a competitive advantage. To delve further, Sarris’ full article is well worth a read, as he explores this issue in full, citing a number of studies currently working to better understand player load management.
Que up old guys commenting how soft the modern player is, and how they should play every day because they are making millions of dollars:
Or young guy that is working 60 hours per week and doesn’t get days off.
If your occupation is 100% physical, then you have plenty of room to talk. Most of us can perform just as well at our jobs if we have a bone chip in our elbow though. Most employees don’t have as much invested in them as professional athletes (for better or worse).
It’s spelled queue. I’m an old guy.
Actually, it’s “Cue.” i.e. to signal something to begin. I don’t think he was demanding old men get into a line (“queue”) to make their comments.
I would argue that both would work. Queue would mean the old men are lined up waiting for their turn to comment. However, I don’t think that’s what he meant
Que????
@Wolverines2
You say that smugly but there’s merit to this question. Why can’t pitchers throw as often as they used to?
Facts. The game has changed but at it’s basic, it really hasn’t. Still 3 outs in an inning. Still 9 innings in a game. The only change is the number of games played throughout history.
In 1880 eight mlb pitchers threw over 450 IP. Eight of them threw at least 49 complete games.
Those seasons were only 85 games played.
Fast forward to 1926. 49 different pitchers throw over 200 IP.
Fast forward to 1972 when 52 pitchers threw over 200 IP
Add another 46 years and we get to 2018 where only 13 pitchers threw over 200 IP.
So I get that the number of players has grown since 1880 and so have the number of games. I get it that teams found it in the players best interest to not throw every pitch of every games started and I get that relief pitchers play a larger role. What I don’t get is how did pitchers in the 1800s to more recent players like Nolan Ryan, Pjil Neikro, Don Sutton and Steve Carlton (5,00 IP club) end up being such workhorses but pitchers today, some considered aces, fail to get into the 7th inning or 230 IP? How did human beings put so many innings over so little amount of seasons before advanced science, TJ surgery, etc?
That’s the most horrible idea that they can think of…this will hurt and end career stats as we know it. Records now would never be broken. There going to lose a lot of fan base
Not for their own pockets. The threshold for getting in to the HOF has been lowered over the past 15 or so years. Players are simply used differently today. Complete games mean squat now. Wins and Saves totals only matter in arbitration. It is what it is but fans aren’t going away as revenue keeps rising.
No records were broken from the 60s to the 90s so who cares? I dont watch baseball to watch records being broken, I watch it to see who wins the game.
I would guess the majority of fans always have one eye on the record books.
Definitely good they expanded the pitcher IL to 15 days then!
I’m sure everyone loves watching bullpen days when the ace needs a day off.
Wow so a worker isnt allowed a day off just because you say so? This “everyday player” nonsense is anti-worker and workers rights laws exist for a reason, just because Cal Ripken happened once doesnt mean thousands of other players have to be like him. Ripken was a freak occurrence, not the norm or “standard”.
It’s called the off season, they have months off at a time. They also don’t play everyday during the season, there are off days.
I’m really thinking MLB TV should just gather all the analytics, etc. and begin televising the managers rolling dice and checking the Strat-o-matic cards. Nobody gets tired, worn down, really injured….the best team probably wins…..
I know, too old for most of you, but still one of the best games ever. Strato!!!
Strat-o-matic!
Kept me out of trouble in my youth. Can’t get girls pregnant or catch STDs when you’re playing it.
I only played the R-rated version but got close to stepping on a landmine or two.
“The naked eye can only gauge so much in terms of a player’s fatigue level…”
Not for those of us who WATCH EVERY GAME!
I don’t care if every defensive measurement rates Nicholas Castellanos as one of the worst defenders in baseball since his rookie season. I watch him play, and he isn’t a bad defender (*sarcasm*).
Eye test…more like eye roll
Thanks for the laugh today.
What are they proposing? Make every player take a day off every week or something?
This is ridiculous. Baseball is not a physically demanding sport.
Teams can do what they want with their investments to protect them.
Not when their “investments” are directly tied to others paying money to watch them perform. If you pay to go to a play and instead seeing of the big star you paid to see, you get the understudy, you are going to demand your money back. And even if you don’t get your money back, you are probably going to be less likely to pay to go to another play from that company.
Sometimes those plays offer partial or full refunds to ticketholders in the event of a star not appearing. Maybe if teams started doing that, there wouldn’t be as much of an issue.
Good idea hiflew!
Tell that to those who play catcher.
Yes, because the pitchers who throw 97 MPH+ consistently aren’t putting massive stress on their arms.
Pitchers are not the issue. They have had a “load management” system in place for decades. It’s called the starting rotation. Even relievers have been classified as “unavailable for a game due to pitching in 2-3 consecutive games.
Catchers have also historically been given extra days off due to stress on the body.
The issue here is “everyday players” that are called that because they are supposed to play every day.
Obviously the game is physically demanding because of all the time on the IL. Maybe you never played?
Just because it’s a non-contact sport doesn’t mean its not physically demanding.
These guys play 162 games in 187 days. That doesn’t leave much time to recover from minor injuries that end up lingering around for much of the season. Obviously if the injury is severe enough, they go on the IL but hamstring tweaks or a sore back, etc can really hamper performance but not warrant missing at least 10 days.
Also, makes sense for these guys to get a mental break, totally non-injury related. Let a guy a take series off, available to pinch hit maybe, and reset themselves. I think it could actually lead to more consistency in some of these players.
I would definitely not support a blanket policy, however, there shouldn’t be backlash if teams prioritize winning and maximizing their players abilities.
Sucks for the fan that wants to see Mike Trout the one time per year his team cones to their city and thats the series he’s out, but too bad. Maybe MLB needs to change to a more balanced schedule so that doesn’t happen.
cyyoung24 with the best post in the thread
You can’t change the schedule to make it more balanced without cutting games and if you cut games, then there’s going to be serious financial consequences for everyone involved. TV Networks paid for X amount of games so they want to pay less, since the ownership is taking less they’ll want to pay the players less and the players won’t want to take less. A lighter schedule will never happen because a player with a guaranteed contract will not take less money because less money is coming in and the union will never go for it because the union fights to put as many dollars in the player’s hands as possible.
you are brain dead
Oh yeah?
Neither is golf but if I play 3 or 4 days in a row my back definitely needs some rest.
I seriously doubt you are in the shape of a pro athlete, but even if you are, the comp is not the same. I’m pretty sure if you were getting paid millions to play golf and relied on people paying a lot of money to watch you play golf, you would play through a little pain.
You think players aren’t constantly “playing through a little pain”? On what planet? Dude you need a full re-boot on this issue. You’ve totally crashed.
Seriously doubting you have ever played it then.
Teams already give players maintenance days. The DH allows teams to essentially give players days off in the field. “Load management” works in the NBA because those guys are sprinting miles a game and their bodies don’t have enough time to recover when the next game is 24 hours away.
Load Management would be best thing to happen to players. Wouldn’t even mind having SP pitch 1 day a week like in Japan
The games over 100 years old….Now all of the sudden we need a rest program?
I’m all for keeping players healthy, but the biggest concern I have with this is that nobody will ever be able to challenge any MLB records again.
We went decades with no records broken before steroids, so youre saying you want more steroids? I agree, if we lets players use PEDs they wouldnt get injured and we could see them play everyday.
The NBA maintenance program is a joke and it screws the fans over that pay to see the game played at its highest level. If these athletes can’t do their job, their pay should reflect it. Less games played need to result in lower salaries.
I’m all for that idea. Have player salaries tied directly to whether or not they play. Average out player salaries and if they don’t play due to injury, sickness, or needing a rest, and are not on the injured list, they shouldn’t get paid for that game. Or maybe get paid like 25% of their salary for that game. There would definitely have to be provisions included to keep teams like the Pirates from sitting healthy players to save money.
That being said, it would never happen in a million years.
hiflew you are on fire!
So it’s better to have players on the field simply because it’s their job and they are being paid to do so?
Say a player is in an 1-18 slump with 10Ks and a mild back issue that he could play through but it’s obviously contributing to poor performance and directly contributing to your team losing more games? That’s a better product for the fans?
Hurt/bad/fatigued players forcing themselves to take the field in order to maximize their earnings?
Yeah, I don’t agree with that.
But the profits are constantly skyrocketing and when you say things like this, you are literally advocating for billionaire owners to make even more money for doing absolutely nothing other than being rich. Why? Because you are petty and think baseball players arent “real” athletes or have a “real” job. But I can bet you whatever field you are in doesnt generate BILLIONS of dollars every year only due to your hard work.
Maybe the worst take I see on these threads. So very shortsighted and dumb. Players absolutely should make money relative to profits. Current production should have zero influence to current salary, period.
Owners control the media and feed you narratives and storylines that make the owners out to be good and players bad and you eat it up happily because you are jealous you arent a pro baseball player. Grow up.
@DTD_ATL
I wouldn’t mind contracts having an incentive for GP. No problem at all. I just can’t see that being a major component. No way do I think Trout should be signficantly penalized for missing three weeks at the end of the season. Injuries happen, and that’s why you have injury insurance. Moreover, anyone playing a sport is going to need downtime to rest their muscles, tendons and ligaments, let alone bones. Thinking otherwise is just…boneheaded.
Any plan to increase communication, monitor and offer protection from further injury is a major plus.
Who cares about records set by some on-field drunk back in the ’20s?
Most baseball fans care.
There’s literally no going back from today’s highly-tuned athletic machines in any competitive sport.
Only boomers care.
Stop with the boomer insults. It’s anti-social. You make worthwhile contributions here. Boomer insults are not among them. You don’t see people making millennial insults, at least not very often. You tend to get in this rut fairly often…
you are the funniest person on this site. please consider making comedy your career.
It’s like people forget that Cal Ripken exists and played baseball really not that long ago. We aren’t talking about people from the 1920s here. We are talking simply 1, maybe 2 generations ago. What has changed in such a little time?
The human body surely hasn’t. Is it the money involved? Do people just not try as hard? Do they have less of a work ethic? Do they just not care as much? Are people playing/training too much year round? Is it too much strength training overtaxing the body? Is it some combination of all of that and other stuff I haven’t even thought of? I don’t have the answers, and I don’t think anyone else does either. But it does make one wonder about the future of not only baseball, but the human race in general, if there is this much of a fall off in productivity in such a relatively small time period.
Badda Bing!
What was the average male height in 1900?
A century ago, American men ranked as the third tallest in the world, standing at 171 centimeters (5 feet 7 inches).
Yeah, Jose Altuve would still be looking up at the average guy. That was a joke, but all it shows is that height doesn’t matter when it comes to baseball. If you want to make that argument in a basketball discussion, you might have a valid point, but in baseball a man that is 6’6″ tall doesn’t really have much of an advantage over a man that is 5’6″ tall. In some ways, he has more of a disadvantage since his strike zone is bigger.
Nothing against the shorter guys. This research might not apply to the spry 5’8, 180 pounders, but the 6’4, 240 pounders?
With advancements in technology and science and how politics and capitalism have changed, the 80s might as well have been 200 years ago.
When one player is literally your only argument to playing everyday, you dont have an argument.
I miss the 80’s. Good music, good movies, no PC bologna, no kids going crazy attacking the schools, the freedom of going places without a security blanket like a cell phone or GPS 🙂 When we talked baseball it was never about how much money or big a contract a player should get. Ever. A story like this would have been laughable and absurd.
“no PC bologna”
yeah, back then you could call people whatever you wanted. The golden days of bigotry.
With the advancements in science and medicine the human body should be able to do more not less.
One player is not my only argument. It’s just the only one I listed. Try and keep up junior.
All those things are just assumptions by someone who doesn’t actually know, just assumes.
I think it’s really neat that this technology exist and is continuing to advance. It’s only gonna help the game in the long run. Healthier players lead to higher quality of play. The key is to be able to take this technology and appropriate training with it not only to the majors but to little league to prevent injuries there and understand the impact the game can have on someone at such a young age.
Little League?!
No you make that kid throw 150 pitches per game. And then you make that kid come back and catch in the 2nd game that’s a makeup for rainout. Especially if it’s 95 degrees out.
“But Dad, I’m tired.”
“Shut up, son, or no Slurpee after the game.”
LOL!
But sad and true in the past. Don’t Little Leagues
have pitch limits now?
im not sure. my elementary school-age cousin threw out his arm a few years ago though, and now he cant play anymore. leads me to believe those rules are spotty at best.
Little league is slightly egregious, but your point rings true for college and high school players, because thats where you find more failed players with egos who think winning at that level actually means something and dont care about pitch counts “because theyre young, theyll bounce back” but its miles on the arm that causes injuries down the road.
ok so if they can’t handle playing a game for a whole season then start paying them what they deserve which is a rookie gets minimum wage per game played and every year you get a small raise and give them a nice bonus for amount of games played…today’s athletes are spoiled rotten overpaid crybabies
And get off my lawn!
today’s comments section posters are spoiled rotten overpaid crybabies
If billions are getting generated then millions are what they deserve. Period. Your arbitrary judgment of minimum wage should not apply. Or do you like Robber Barons?
Players were willing to cut the September call ups (which would get them extra rest heading to the playoffs)for the hope a little extra would be tossed their way for members on the 25 man staff (And keeping much needed money from minor leaguers who would otherwise get called up). Hard to sympathize with them now that they’ve calling for more days off or less games.
Uh, I think it is front offices that are exploring this…..
Another jobs program for people who never played the game.
“…all change is bad and everyone hates it…”
That’s funny TC!
I wonder what Cal Ripken Jr.’s take on this is?
He’s open-minded enough to know that the game has changed over the last two decades. Playing 162 games/season or pitching complete games mean squat now. No one is trying break any consecutives games played record today. It’s not better or worse, it’s just different.
No. It is worse. But thank you for speaking on his behalf since you know his opinion already.
The fans take should be never missing games is stupid and too many players think that they can play hurt but if they aren’t at 100% when instantly turn into a replacement level/AAAA player every time they think they’re “toughing it out”.
Yeah it’s much better to put them on the IL and call up an actual replacement level /AAAA player from the PCL to play in their place. That way you get both the mediocrity AND the lack of name recognition. Twice the fun.
Some fans complain that games are too expensive to attend as ticket prices continue to rise. This is an idea for ownerships way to reduce cost (by limiting injuries) thus providing a lesser product on the field. That may translate to slower ticket/concession price inflation. So what do you fickle people want?
Maybe they should think about making it 130-140 games a season instead of 162. SeAson would end aug 30th a month earlier
They talked about a 154 game season but it never gained traction. Players don’t want to get paid less.
Go to 168 games (every team plays each other 12 times (2 home series of 3 games, 2 away of 3 games) with only 2 rounds of playoffs (LCS, WS) because the schedule will finally be balanced and we won’t have to sit through pointless rounds of playoff sweeps because phony-good teams are involved who only made the playoffs because the worst team was in their division.
The Nationals just won the World Series and they were a wild card team. In 2014 the Giants and Royals both wild card teams were in the World Series.
@youngTank15
“The Nationals just won the World Series and they were a wild card team. In 2014 the Giants and Royals both wild card teams were in the World Series.”
Yeah I’m not sure that that makes it a good thing, the right thing. I admit I’m kind of on the fence. I hate de-valuing the 162 game season results by letting Wild Card teams in, but I do like the fact that fans of more teams get to be involved. It’s a tough one.
ummm Baseball has been doing this for decades, star players pretty regularly get Sundays off. In fact, I think there was already whining and media-led controversy about it because sometimes it happens on national tv games.
Generally vets get a day game off the day after a night game. Not sure about this Sunday stuff you’re spewing tbh…
I just come here now and then, but every time I see some ignorant posts. Not sure he if is just an angry kid or just lonely, but he doesn’t seem to know much about baseball.
Now there’s an anti-social dude.
Strike Four is right. Giants have been doing that for years. A lot of catchers also get the day game off after a night game. Been like that for years. No reason was a position player needs to take 20 or so games off a year unless he’s in a platoon (Not a huge of either).
Really… there is no comparison with what Basketball players endure to what baseball players do.. NBA guys constantly running on hard wood does a number to your knees.. the ONLY players on a baseball field that takes body punishment like that is a catcher and last I checked they get days off.. pitchers already get plenty of rest.. position players sprint 4-5 times a game (assuming balls in play) on soft dirt.. and how many times is the ball hit to them on the field in a single game.. get this load management nonsense out of here.
Keep sitting star players and I’ll stop buying tickets. It’s not cheap going to games these days, and now I might not get to see the best of the best play due to “load management”? Beat it.
This is silly. The average NBA player is running between 2 and 2.5 miles per game. It’s far more physically demanding. Also we already have load management in baseball. Pitchers and catchers get several days off. Only 5 players appeared in all 162 games this past season and a total of 28 appeared in at least 156 games. So the vast majority of MLB players are getting around a week off per month or more, factoring in off days also, in a sport where the average position player spends the game either sitting on the bench or standing in the field. Except for the aforementioned catchers that already get significant time off.
Basketball players play half as many games with more days off. and they have load management.
They need to follow the 1970’s NHL model… “You need Tommy John Surgery? Pitch with the other arm, now get out there.” “You got a torn ACL? We need more tape here!”
I don’t think anybody should take advice from the NBA on anything at this point. If I were a starting player in today’s game I would NEVER take a day off unless I was literally unable to field my position or run to first base at a reasonable pace. If I was asked to sit for any other reason other than my performance, I would immediately ask to be traded. So ridiculous that the old veterans played for peanuts but had way more pride and work ethic than these pansies
Easy to say when you don’t have to back up your words.
“Easy to say when you don’t have to back up your words.”
Says the internet tough guy.
im sure if they had it their way most guys would want to play 162 games if healthy. however, they are smart enough to realise that the occasional off day is part of sports, and probably not terribly detrimental to their well-being.
You don’t work as many days a week for six straight months as ballplayers do, and I’ll bet you do ZERO physical labor. I’ll bet they do more physical work in one year than you do in a lifetime.
As you say: pansy!
I’ve run an average of 4.5 miles per day for the past forty years. Only really started to struggle with injuries over the past ten years. Was still strong in my late forties, I could run a 6 minute mile and an 8 minute pace marathon. But that’s all out the window now that I’m an old fart. The absolute first key is getting enough sleep, 8 hours is essential. The second key is having a good diet. I learned mine from watching my father survive pancreatic cancer as a diabetic. Small amounts of meat (deck of cards), complex carbohydrates (whole grains only) and loads of vegetables. Sure, you fart a lot, but you feel a lot better. The third key is the work you put in. Don’t overload your body with repetitive movements (that’s funny for me to say when I’ve run over 66,000 miles), allow for recovery days between really hard workouts. There aren’t a lot of high school athletes who get this right at all so it’s not hard to imagine that baseball players don’t know what they’re doing to their bodies. I think playing college sports helps make you more aware and I also think organizations are getting smart about making sure their athletes take care of themselves. It’s not rocket science and it doesn’t require technology. You just have to live the right way and take proper care of yourself.
LoAd MaNaGeMeNt
so many foolish people here. most healthy stars only get a few games off a year, yet some make it seem like its every other game. if you buy a ticket and one player isnt playing, im sure you will live. go for the team, not the player.
Baseball teams already do this, and have done it forever. Guys get a day off once a week in general. Baseball plays 162 games in around 185 days. That’s 3-4 days off a month. I picked one team (wizards). They play back to back days 8 times the whole year. 82 games in six months. It’s different.
Why do so many people have an issue with this? The Astros have been giving their guys scheduled off days for 3-4 years. During the regular season they routinely rotate the off days in order to keep players fresh. That’s why Marwin Gonzalez was so valuable when he was with the Astros. He could step in for any infield position and LF with ease. He was basically a 10th starter.
Every team gets Thursday’s off. Don’t schedule any games on Thursday during the season. Every other Monday is an off day. The season is too long anyway.
26 weeks at 6 games per week is 156. minus 13 (every other monday) is 143. More than enough baseball. That’s the first week of April through the last week of September.
Like the NBA, Make 2 leagues, no divisions. Everyone plays everyone the same number of times.. Top 4 in each league gets a one game bye. Expand wildcard playoffs. One round of wildcard with winner take all between next 8 teams in each league. The best 4 play the wildcard winners in a best of 5 Then the winners of that round face off in a best of 5, then a best of seven for the LCS. Then a best of 7 for the World Series.
This gets more teams into the playoffs and a chance to win it all. The teams with the best records all get to play a wildcard team. This should cut down on the “tanking” especially when you see wildcard teams making it to the World Series and even winning it.
Fortunately, MLB isn’t run by Adam Silver or NBA team owners. Sub-.500 ballclubs should not be in the playoffs, period.
That’s true. It would look bad if a team was under .500 for the season and they end up winning the World Series. Just means they got hot at the right time.
My tickets should definitely be discounted on Pops is Resting Everybody Day…
MLB should be looking at the NBA’s financial model…..