The Blue Jays have remade their pitching staff this winter with the additions of Hyun-Jin Ryu, Tanner Roark, Chase Anderson and Shun Yamaguchi. Along with the return on Matt Shoemaker and the development of Anthony Kay, Trent Thornton, Ryan Borucki and Nate Pearson, the Blue Jays have plenty of options for their 2020 rotation. It doesn’t come together, however, without Ryu at the top. With that in mind, let’s check in on some of the factors that brought the Korean southpaw to Toronto…
- To remember the last time one of Scott Boras’ clients signed with the Blue Jays, he had to go all the way back to the mid-eighties. Bill Caudill signed a two-year, $2.37MM deal to play the 1985 and 1986 seasons in Toronto. Caudill is now one of a couple ex-clients to work for Boras. But until Hyun-Jin Ryu’s four-year, $80MM deal, the Blue Jays were one of Boras’ favorite teams to pick on, per the Athletic’s John Lott. It wasn’t personal, of course, Boras simply believes Toronto’s market should make them a top-10 team capable of signing top free agents while retaining their own homegrown stars – a trend he’s starting to see with the current Toronto regime. And of course, it behooves Boras to push potential large market teams to open their wallets.
- As for Ryu’s choice to join the Blue Jays, the decision largely came down to where he wanted to raise his young family. That said, Toronto’s early and persistent interest also helped bring Ryu north of the border, per the Athletic’s Kaitlyn McGrath. Long-term security wasn’t necessarily a driving factor for Ryu, though securing a four-year deal for the 32-year-old certainly counts as a win for Boras. Team President Mark Shapiro spoke on Ryu’s importance to the community, saying: “It was more recognizing what an incredibly international city Toronto is, very aware of the Korean population here, both in students and business and what a tightknit community it is. And so feeling like it would be a great place for Ryu and his family to be and feeling like it would be a great synergy with Toronto and Canada, in general. That was a consideration — not a driving factor, but certainly something that we thought would make for a great alignment in the relationship moving forward.”
Boras was tired of the ‘small town’ Toronto excuse. Aren’t we all? Good to see a change in mindset on both ends of that equation.
The “Blue Flu” is no more.
jays came to boras with a 4 year offer but not $20 mil per season. he used angels’ offer of 3/60 and took it to the jays to get 4/80. the devil of newport beach!
Boras is at his essence a used car salesman. He advocates for his players and vey much himself—shows a totally reckless disregard for teams, fans and the game itself.
Tell me what makes Boras different from every other agent, except for how successful he is.
He has made a habit of completely overvaluing his clients – at the expense of the clubs he convinces. Unfortunately most of the clubs (who are complicit in this by willingly negotiating with him) cannot afford to make the kinds of mistakes he saddles them with.
Overvaluing his clients at the expense of the club he convinces? If I can convince my boss I’m worth 20 million even though I’m only worth 10 he’s the idiot for paying me 20 not for me asking.
I appreciate your analogy. If you misrepresent your value—if you essentially mislead and deceive— you’re not at all an idiot. You’re actually clever—and unethical.
Everyone is playing the same game in free agency. Players, agents, and teams. Agents do the players bidding. If a player says go out and get me the most money you can then I can’t fault the agents for doing just that. If a gm makes an agreement with another gm on a trade and one comes out way ahead he’s not unethical he just made a smart move. Contracts are signed by both parties with good old fashion supply and demand setting the market. Ryu was extremely good last year and the Blue Jays paid him handsomely for it. Nobody did anyone wrong
Outside of media hype and fans who dont know what they’re talking about, please outline for me when Toronto has ever claimed itself to be “small town”…
I’ll wait…
Blue Jays could be the surprise team in overall W’s from last year. They need some break out seasons from their offense and if so 2020 could be an exciting year..I like the additions to their pitching staff, Good luck Jays
No
Yes.
I agree. If you are looking for a surprise team in 2020, Toronto has a sneaky good rotation now and some young, budding stars on offense.
Everything would have to break right for them to truly compete in the East, but that looks like a much much better team this year.
Agreed, in the next few years they should compete in the AL East. There’s a decent core and a real good farm system. BUT currently with the Yankees Rays and Red Sox they’re a 4th place team.
the Jays could certainly push for the wild card, but i think what holds them back is that outfield. it certainly looks better with Lourdes in it, but the rest of the gang are well suspect.
If they can bring on Akiyama to play CF and push Grichuk to RF it would look alot better
Have him bat lead off and you’ll have two high OBP guy (biggio) batting in front of BO Vlad and Lourdes
I find these statements so foolish “As for Ryu’s choice to join the Blue Jays, the decision largely came down to where he wanted to raise his young family”.
He is a Boras client. Boras follows the money. The Jays offered Ryu the most money. That’s why he signed.
I heard the same nonsense this offseason with Cole (Grew up wanting to be a Yankee”, Strasburg “loyalty to the Nationals”, Rendon “Wanted a chance to win another World Series”. The fact that those 3 signed record contracts was the reason they all signed. All for the most money.
I’m not saying there is anything wrong with Boras getting them the most money, it would just nice if they just say it like it is.
Didn’t you see little Ryu’s “Blue Jays Fan” sign when he was a child? Or Strasburg’s “Nationals 4eva” drawing he made when he was 6? (Who cares that they were still the Expos at that time?)
The school system worked just fine for Mike Hampton with the Rockies; his children turned into prodigies and graduated in two years so he was able to be traded to the Braves.
Agents work for the players, not the other way around. In the end the player decides where he wants to sign, assuming he gets more than one offer. In Ryu’s case the fact that the Dodgers apparently weren’t even talking to him probably influenced his decision-making more than any other factor.
From the LA Times:
“They were open to offering Ryu a four-year contract, but with a considerably lower average annual value than he received from the Blue Jays, according to a person familiar with the situation who requested anonymity because he wasn’t authorized to speak on the record.”
About a week before he signed with Toronto, Ryu commented that he was under the impression that the Dodgers weren’t very interested. From here:
For now, though, Ryu’s under the impression his longtime club isn’t particularly interested in bringing him back. “If the Dodgers wanted to re-sign me, they would have told my agent,” the left-hander said (via Yonhap News Agency). “I haven’t heard from him yet, and honestly, I don’t have much to tell you right now.”
mlbtraderumors.com/2019/12/pitching-rumors-ryu-lec…
So apparently the Dodgers were “open” making an offer that was either never made or if it was, wasn’t going to be the best one the player would get. So what else is new?
The deciding factor? Ryu had tired of the “Hollywood lifestyle” and was trying to get as far away as possible
And you got this information from where exactly? (Hint: the voices in your head don’t count.)
I was making fun of Anthony Rendon.
Not everything has to be so serious, Internet Tough Guy.
Try to pretend that was clear.
Well, it won’t be too bad if they never spend November – March in Toronto.
Toronto’s weather isn’t all that different than Chicago, New York, Boston or Philly.
It’s not exactly like you cross the border and everyone lives in igloos.
Winter weather in New York and Philly are not the same as Chicago or Boston. Chicago and Boston are horrible. New York and Philly are just bad.
Right, the point being that winter weather in all of those cities isn’t great yet Toronto’s weather constantly gets brought up as somehow worse.
I doubt anyone talks about Chicago’s weather as a negative for free agents when it’s pretty comparable to Toronto.
Hey Boras, get Ryu a guest spot on Kim’s Convenience!
This front office signed Franklin Morales in 2016.
The JP Riccardi led Blue Jays signed Brad Wilkerson in 2008.
I believe both were Boras clients at the time.
Gotta say knowing that is impressive imo. Or even researching to find out about those guys is impressive
You can believe me or not, but i knew that information off the top of my head. I remember because i knew it was a big deal for some in the media.
Riccardi had no issues taking Board “advised” prospect either, They didnt sign but Riccardi drafted James Paxton and Kris Bryant in 2009.
Thought Kendrys Morales was a Boras client, he was but not when he signed with the Jays in 2016. This FO has no problem with signing Boras clients; they signed Ryu, they made an offer to Cole, they were at Moustakas’ house when free agency opened up. Problem was always from the Jays past president, Paul Beeston and their previous GM Alex Anthopoulos.
Both signings happened during the season. Perhaps the writer was referring to offseason multiyear contracts.
While they have certainly “added” to their rotation, it’s hardly an imposing or even competitive group except for Ryu. And he’s only there because no one else would go 4 years. Still a 4th place team in that division.
Maybe they are next year but they should be competitive in 2021.
Pearson is one of the top 2-3 pitching prospects in baseball and should be up midseason next year to give the Jays a solid top of the rotation.
Paxton’s a FA next year as well. The Jays should go hard after him.
I think Paxton will come North if his offer is competitive. It’s up to the Jays to evaluate what makes sense for them…this rotation is going to look way better once Pearson gets here…hitting 102 is going to cause a buzz at the Rogers Centre. Can’t wait!
Toronto is certainly a nice place to raise for families for sure.
But I think ultimately what led Ryu to sign with the Jays was the lack of “enthusiasm” (meaning either lack of the 4th year or AAV) from the other teams.
Otherwise he wouldn’t have moved to the AL East.
Good luck, Ryu!
The Blue Jay’s will be an interesting team to watch. Whether they even sniff the playoffs depends on luck and how this team performs on the field.
I dont buy raising your kids as to why you sign with a bad org like blue jays. He signed there for the $$$ as did rendon, cole and strasburg. Local has nothing to do with it, its how much teams are willing to over pay. Outside out the rendon deal i don’t see any of these deals panning out well long term.
“Bad organization”.. Last time I checked only the championships matter. And their is only 1 good organization every year, the rest are all losers. And the last championship Blue Jays won was in 93, Dodgers was in 88.. Dont be angry because you guys have all the money in the world, stars all over the field, great farm system and still haven’t won a World Series in over 30 years. Blue Jays have one of the best farm systems in baseball, with young elite controllable talent for years to come. Be careful before you say what’s bad or not. While the Blue Jays play in a division with true legendary franchises unlike your dodgers, having to see the Yankees and Red Sox every year god knows how many times. Your billionaire owner didn’t want to pay Ryu, don’t be calling Blue Jays organization “bad” for that. Sad how you guys want to hoard all the good players, yet still can’t win to save your lives.. Your best player wets the bed every time he plays a baseball game that’s actually meaningful. Please.
@mario93 last time i checked we made to back to back world series and poor management by an inept manager and a cheating team cost us the chip. Yes blue jays are bad outside of 2/3 years with donaldson and joey bats what exactLy have they done besides forth place finishes? Signing ryu does nothing in a division where you are the 4/5th best team in the division yearly. By your moronic standards yankees are just as lowly with 1 chip in 20 years. Championship arent a given in any sport but having the chance to win one is huge. Exactly how many times have blue jays had a chance to win one in the last 25 years? Any way you slice it 20 per for 4 years for a soft tossing pitcher who doesnt show up in big moments is a bad deal.
Last time I checked the manager was hired by the front office.
You’re just angry because your dodgers decided to hoard their money for once, and not players. The soft tossing old man led the NL in era last season. While not long ago the Jays had back to back playoff appearances.. And like I said the Jays are in a division with the Yankees and Red Sox, while also the Rays. Something the Dodgers team can never say. Jays play with the biggest heavyweights of professional baseball history, and it will always be that way. The Dodgers haven’t won in 30 years…. Go away Dodger homer, Ryu is a Jay now.
The Blue Jays finished 3rd numerous times as a matter of fact! A very safe distance behind the Wild Card spot for many of those.
It’s not like he’s not going to play meaningful baseball in Toronto anyways.
Don’t worry about him, he’s just angry because his team wants to hoard all the good players yet still haven’t won a World Series in over 30 years.
@mario93 i have been to both cities and its not close to be honest….la is head and shoulders better than toronto and that is from an unbiased opinion as i am from washington.
As far as the comparison to winning i think as a team all you can do is give your team the best chance to win and dodgers have done that yearly in a strong division. Blue jays havent really done much outside of being a tire fire and constantly letting great players go sign with bigger markets. Sure mindless comment was a little wonky wording but the bottomline is that jays are usually a 4th place team outside like 4 years and despite youth and a few nice prospect ryu isnt gonna make them a contender. Yankees, rays and boston are all significantly better with the money to spend to get even better.
Thanks for the unbiased opinion American…
Lol!
Yankees are $50M over the luxury tax. Red Sox are $23M over. Both teams have massive bad contracts that they can’t move. Jays on the other hand are $83M under the luxury tax and have a line up, containing 3-4 future all stars, whose salary can be 75% paid for with the $6.9M luxury tax bill that the Yankees are facing.
I ask you, who is better set up for long term success?
yankees
Guess we’ll see
Within 2 years he will
Bad Organizational? Lol. Wow that comment is just ignorant. Have you ever been to Toronto? I’ve been there numerous times and I’ve been to LA numerous times as well. Toronto is a world class and very clean city. The Jays have one of the richest owners in the league, 4th best farm system and have won 2 Championships after LA won their last one. To top it off, they’re starting to compliment their young core with free agents. The Dodgers consistently over spend and have won nothing. That alone shows poor management. If any one of the readers here were given 250m to spend 90% of us could build a playoff team. They’re a joke to be honest.
So prior to two years of chips and 2014-2016 what have blue jays done that shows they are a class organization? Seats look empty 9/10 games i have seen when either dodgers or angels play them. World class, thats funny because kawhi leonard couldnt wait to bolt for la as soon as he could despite the “clean” Toronto life. How exactly have dodgers overspent with frank mccourt era or this new management team? Since friedmans first season the most expensive free agent they have signed was polluck lol….again you org is consistently a 4th place team behind teams like boston, new york and tampa. You can twist it any way you like ryu is simply not that good of a player for that contract and injury history. Coupled with poor post season stats its an easy pass, can already see first series against yankees getting launched for 6 runs.
Kawhi left Toronto FOR HIS FAMILY. So relating that to Ryu, Ryu signed to a team with a good Korean population in the city to help raise his family. Kawhi was offered more money due to his bird rights from the Raptors but declined to take the Clippers offer. If you didn’t know at all Toronto is a huge hockey center and are die hard maple leaf fans so when a team in a different sport is not succeeding they do not care as much. Yes not a great baseball center at times but the city itself I fell in love with within a weeks time. Many players that come speak very highly of the city. Toronto it’s self is very clean and respectable. He also stated the city is world class not the organization.
Please list the ways the overspent in recent years? Outside of the trade for agon and taking on hanley trade they havent spent much on free agents in the last 25 years. The let piazza and Sheffield walk because they wanted to much. During the mccourt era there biggest signing was shawn green lol…you come across as either ignorant or blind to the real facts. Dodgers make playoffs yearly and back to back world series. What have the jays done between the empty seats and missing the playoffs?
Dang, you mad. It’s a blue Jays fan, will be ok bud.
lol why’s this guys so triggered
what a weird ode to boras. very weird
Hey TC, you obviously don’t know anything about the history of the Toronto Blue Jays. Here’s a little context for you:
Paul Beeston, President Emeritus of the Toronto Blue Jays, would never give out a free agent contract longer than 5 years to anyone. That started 25 years ago with the terrible contract he gave to Boras client. Boras hated it and Beeston effectively told Boras to piss off. “Fool me once…”
So in reality, it was Boras who was picked on by the Toronto organization and not the other way around. Get your facts straight chump.
the only thing I’d like to see the Jays do this offseason is solidify CF w a signing like akiyama or marte. give rowdy reps at first and see if hes the answer before going into the next offseason and picking up someone at first or moving Guerrero and finding someone for third. really make a push for the east.
but for this year a lockdown CF w a good bat really solidifies this lineup.
Pirates are rebuilding. They need as many lower level prospects that have high ceilings. Marte could be had.
How many lockdown CFs with a good bat actually exist? 4 or 5 tops?
Trout is in his own league
Bellinger could be (I don’t know how good his defence is)
Acuna (again I don’t know his defence)
Lorenzo Cain (age may have declined his production but was at one point)
Betts could play CF and be a top option
Springer could be classified as one depending on some opinions
I’m not sure what people think about some of these guys. I’m sure we could all agree about Trout and most likely Bellinger what do you guys think. But to your point coldbeer there’s not many at all and all are untouchable or dang close
as far as who you could possibly land I’d say marte is probably one of the few guys out there that a team might look at moving.
Blackmon could be added to your list as well
but w an 11M/yr tag marte represents a good value in comparison to guys like Blackmon
I was thinking Blackmon as well. I believe his defence has slowly decreased in the past few years so I am thinking he may not be the strongest defensive option compared to say Marte who I think could be worthwhile for the jays
I understand it’s on brand for him but, I believe Boras is being very disingenuous with his statements. He makes it seem, at long last, the Jays are bending to his will but it isn’t the case. The issue Boras has had with the organization all these years was never their unwillingness to open the wallet (they’ve done so many times) but their internal policy to never go above 4 years for a Free Agent signing and get stuck with 9 year contracts. This signing of Ryu isn’t a departure from that. It’s business as usual.
Boras is correct about his assertion of Toronto as a market. They should be a perennial Top 10 team. Since the strike, the Jays have landed in the Top 10 just a few times. They’ve acted like a mid-market team, or small, for 25 years. Boras has probably wanted to use Toronto to leverage better contracts for his players for years, used his comments made to the media to pressure them into doing so in the process. Whether you hate Boras or not, Toronto is a big city with plenty of baseball support to make them an AL powerhouse. Choosing to spend around the middle has caused mediocre results for quite a long time.
Yankees are $50M over the luxury tax. Red Sox are $23M over. Both teams have massive bad contracts that they can’t move. Jays on the other hand are $83M under the luxury tax and have a line up, containing 3-4 future all stars, whose salary can be 75% paid for with the $6.9M luxury tax bill that the Yankees are facing.
I ask you, who is better set up for long term success?
The Yankees. They have some young players and a few contracts coming off the books. They have more desire to win than Toronto. You can’t put a price tag on that.
The Jays don’t have desire to win?
Not even close to the desire the Yankees and the Red Sox had and have. Both teams have proven it time and time again. Those teams reload.
I guess we have differing opinions of “desire to win.” From what I see considering the current MLB talent, the payroll flexibility, and future talent (to progress or trade) at all levels in the organization, the Jays are situating themselves to be the most successful AL East team over the coming decade.
When the Blue Jays decide they want to compete with the big boys I’ll agree with you. Until then, you might want to take a hard look at the more recent history of the Toronto Blue Jays before you make a claim that the Jays are situating themselves to be the most successful AL East time over the next decade. It’s blatantly ignorant yet bold. Tampa won’t spend yet they are in a better position to beat up the Jays in the short term. Boston and New York will always do whatever it takes to be better. The Blue Jays haven’t.
While I agree the that the statement was bold, it was anything but ignorant. I’m very familiar with the Jays and their history. With the exception of Pete Walker (pitching coach), Luis Rivera (Third Base Coach), and Alex Andreopolous (Bullpen Catcher) there is nobody left associated with the Jays from the 2016 team. The entire team from the Front Office to the on field staff has been turned over. So, with that in mind, I would say that to suggest recent history has anything to do with their future success actually is ignorant. As for competing with the “big boys”, they already started that 2 years ago. The process of building a sustainably successful team is a long one and if you can’t see what I’m talking about then you haven’t been paying attention.
Yankees and Boston are willing to spend the cash —Toronto makes mistakes like letting Smoak go and trading Stroman — Ryu isnt worth 20 mil a yr so when the Jays do spend the cash its on the wrong type of player hindering them in the future to spend the cash
You’re losing me again. Obviously, I can’t say for sure because I wasn’t there, but the Jays were likely already in deep talks with Shaw when Smoak was signed by the Brewers. While he is a veteran precence and that does have value, the Jays are bent on getting younger and controllable. Smoak is going into his age 33 season and well into free agent elibility. On the other hand, Shaw is 30 and not eligible for Free Agency until 2022. He will be playing 1B most of the time and he’s also a legit 3B that can fill in for Guerrero Jr on days off. Offensively, if he can regain his stride, he’ll be a bargain at $4M.
As for trading Stroman, that was a great future play. What sense does it make to keep him around when he will likely be gone when he hits Free Agency in 2021? The Jays were smart to take advantage of his market value now. They got 2 very good pitching prospects (Anthony Kay, and Simeon Woods Richardson) and the money that was going to go to him can be used to pay Alford, Bichette, Biggio, Borucki, Guerrero Jr, Hernandez, Jansen, McGuire, Pannone, Thornton, Urena, and Kay. They may choose to allocate it to different players but that just illustrates the amount of flexibility Stroman’s salary creates without dipping into the Free Agent/Extension budget. On top of that, they removed from their clubhouse an insufferable prima donna who needs to build a brand name to cover up his insecurities. It must kill him that Altuve is an inch shorter than him.
Smoak provides vet leadership — I guess the Jays were saying they were cheap when they could have signed Sto and Kay is a so so pitcher – Shaw had an awful yr last yr — and had the Jays not dragged their feet on Smoak he would be on the team — as for Vlad Jr he needs to go on a diet — wasted $$$$ on Ryu — if the Jays get 80-90 starts from him in 4 yrs I would be surprised — But Jays have got some good kids there — in such a tough division Jays will have to trade for proven pitching — of course there isnt much pitching out there —
honestly shaw at 4M could be the free agent signing of the year if he repeats the two breakout years he had after leaving boston which is entirely feasible given the circumstances behind his season last year
Jays fans thought they were in good shape in the middle of the 2003 season. Jays fans thought they’d contend in 2006 after throwing around money. Jays fans thought they were World Series contenders in 2013. Jays fans thought they had a great minor league system in 2012. Jays decided not to go all out after the 2016 season with an awful offseason. Jays then decided not to deal assets and lost incredible leverage on several players, especially Donaldson.
We’ve watched an organization act like a major market team for, what, two or three seasons for over 20 years? Spending/acting like a mid-market club with mediocre results for years. Yankees and Red Sox don’t have high draft picks yet are a threat year in and year out.
I don’t think you’re paying any attention to any of the three teams you mentioned and how they operate, with all due respect.
No disrespect taken. But, unfortunately, the first two paragraphs you wrote are completely irrelevant since they have nothing to do with the current organization and I do not speak for the Jays fanbase. As a matter of fact, if you actually paid any attention to the current Jays fanbase you would see that the majority want Shapiro and Atkins run out of town!
To your last point. Have you at least considered that I have been paying attention to the division? Because I have. With all this talk of the team history and to then actions of previous administrations, I’m inclined to think that it’s you who hasn’t been paying attention to what is going on in Toronto.
The previous regimes worked for the same owner this current regime works for. To say the previous regimes are irrelevant is also wrong. Especially considering Vlad Guerrero was a signing by the previous GM.
As to paying attention to the division here’s how it shakes out; Yankees spend and win, Red Sox spend and win, Tampa trades/drafts and wins, Blue Jays hope and pray. Shapiro/Atkins have repeated what previous GM’s have done; soft rebuild, spend like a small market for a year, overpay a year too early for B and C free agents and hope the young players, all young players, improve immensely. Meanwhile the Yankees sign the best pitcher in baseball.
You said the Jays are setup best for success in the AL East. That’s great. Unfortunately it is not true.
Lets be honest here — Ryu went for the $$$$ — same as Wheeler — Cole — Rendon Dallas Kuechel etc — thats just the way it is — Toronto made a bad deal as did Philly —