The last elite free agent of the winter came off the board Tuesday when third baseman Josh Donaldson agreed to a four-year, $92MM guarantee with Minnesota. Not only does the addition strengthen an already power-happy Twins offense, but it’s also a significant blow for an Atlanta team that received outstanding production from Donaldson in 2019. The club’s situation at third, where Johan Camargo and Austin Riley are in-house front-runners to take over for Donaldson, now looks far less imposing sans Donaldson.
Camargo was effective as recently as two years ago, but his production nosedived during a season to forget in 2019. Riley’s not far removed from a run as a standout prospect, and he began his major league career well last season. However, thanks largely to a bloated strikeout rate (36.4 percent), he endured enormous struggles as 2019 progressed.
There aren’t any obvious answers left at third in free agency, so the Braves could begin the season with what they have at the position and opt for a power bat at another spot (Marcell Ozuna? Nicholas Castellanos?). On the other hand, there are two all-world trade chips in the Cubs’ Kris Bryant and the Rockies’ Nolan Arenado looming on that market.
While Bob Nightengale of USA Today tweets that the Braves are “expected” to revisit previous talks with the Cubs regarding Bryant, David O’Brien of The Athletic throws a bit of cold water on that. The Braves “haven’t been gung-ho on either,” per O’Brien. As was reported previously, the Braves have concerns over Bryant’s defense. And the former MVP’s contract status figures to help stand in the way of a trade with the Braves or anyone else for at least a little while longer. The Cubs and the rest of the league continue to await word on whether Bryant has one or two years of control left after he filed a service-time grievance in October.
Similarly, there are questions over how much longer it’ll be before Arenado becomes a free agent. Unlike Bryant, Arenado is on a long-term contract – a guaranteed $234MM over seven years – but he will be able to opt out of it after his age-30 season in 2021. The massive amount left on Arenado’s deal, his opt-out rights and a hesitance to surrender multiple prospects for him have led to wariness from the Braves, according to O’Brien.
As of last month, general manager Alex Anthopolous and the Braves were on the hunt for a middle-of-the-order hitter. The hope then was that Donaldson would take on that role again in 2020, but the two-time reigning NL East champions’ lineup suddenly looks much weaker now that he’s gone. With strong free-agent options dwindling, the Braves hardly shoo-ins to land either Bryant or Arenado, and their projected Opening-Day payroll ($140MM) already $5MM higher than last year’s season-ending outlay, it’s unclear where the Braves will go from here.
Give me NOLAN for our farm lol
Somebody wake up the arbitrators. This has gone on WAY too long.
Yes! What’s the holdup?
Rules are rules…..
You gotta wonder if the arbs are trying to ruin the Cubs winter on purpose by them stalling like this as some sort of retribution.
Eager to kickstart another rebuild, are you?
Have you even looked at Arenado’s career splits? He is way below league average away from Denver. The braves should want no part of him.
Completely agree! would kill the farm and he hasn’t been that good at all outside of Coors!
Rockies hitters always have huge splits, and when they leave the Rockies always do just fine, right around their previous overall numbers. Coors makes it easier to hit at home, but the effect of leaving altitude makes it HARDER to hit on the road. This is very well established. If you don’t believe me, ask Mike Tauchman, Tom Murphy, Corey Dickerson, Matt Holliday, or just about anyone else. Before anyone mentions him, Tulowitski already had started to stink when he was traded.
Exactly, Sea. Fellow Cardinals fans keep bringing up Arenado’s splits as a reason not to pursue him, until I ask them to look at Matt Holliday’s splits before coming to the Cardinals as well.
Arenado has a CAREER road 70 ops+, in other words 21% below league average when on the road (100 is average).
Umm, Carlos Gonzalez would like a word.
You know you want to take on Longoria and all of his remaining salary, just like with Melancon…
I’ll happily give him to the Braves. I think Kyle Seager is more likely though just based on how well he played in the second half.
I would like to slightly retract my prior statement. Longoria is actually still a really solid 3rd basemen if you only look at his away stats.
Melancon had 33 k’s to 3 walks the second half, while being one of the best closers in the game. Hes finally healthy after spending a year at half strength recovering from surgeries.
Im sure your baseball knowledge is very well regarded on Facebook, FS, and SB, but youre not there right now, so just stop embarrassing yourself.
Melancon will be the Braves version of the Mets’ Cano deal.
That is absurd for so many reasons.
Only ATL didn’t give up 2 of their most prized prospects, including one of the best OF prospects in the game (Kelenic). If Cano didn’t do anything and Diaz was still a star, then NYM would still come out decently, but by Cano being Cano and Diaz looking like a fragile closer – it just reinforces the fact that you don’t put too much stock in a closer, especially if you’re taking on one of the worst contracts in MLB.
Compare that to SD taking on BJ Upton’s deal by getting Craig Kimbrel and his team-friendly extension and they were able to get some production out of him while flipping him for a nice package that include Margot and more. NYM would kill to come out that rosy.
Arenado will end up w StL and Bryant will go to ATL. Bryant will be cheaper in prospect capital, and if Arenado opts out of his deal in two years, the Braves can go after him in free agency as Bryant will be an UFA that same offseason.
Ha-ha! The Braves will go after Nolan Arenado or Kris Bryant in free agency with the same determination they had with Josh Donaldson this offseason. In two years their ‘magnanimous’ ownership will have more on their financial plate than they have now with many of their young stars reaching arbitration to say nothing of the escalating contracts of those they have already secured. Additionally ‘face of the franchise’ Freddie Freeman will also be eligible for free agency when Arenado and Bryant could be.
Liberty Media should have changed the name of the Braves to the Birds as in cheap, cheap, cheap!
The Birds as in Cheap, cheap, cheap = The St. Louis Cardinals !!! Their owners are Cheap, Cheap, Cheap. Arenaldo will fit good in the Braves uniform!! St. Louis has never taken on a Contract such as Arenoldo’s and never will. That’s the Cardinals Ownership annual winter smoke scream to draw in season ticket buyers each winter!
Lol but the Braves have never taken on a contract like Arenado’s either. Not even close to it. The largest they’ve ever dished out was the 8 year deal to Freddie Freeman, which was very undermarket and below 140.
Atlanta is finally showing signs of spending more right now so I’m not riding the whole “LM is cheap” train.. and also because I know LM has zero say on the club’s payroll or contracts they dish out. Either way, Cards may be cheap too, I don’t follow them enough to know, but if they are then this certainly isn’t a good reason why they would be cheaper than ATL.
And here come the Liberty Media blamers, like AA had nothing to do with this — and I’m fine with the outcome knowing that AA was steadfast in his years/dollars. More than anything, he does NOT want to be hindered to the risk involved with a bad contract, even if we have more than enough room for it. That makes it harder for him to do his job in the future and could inevitably affect their ability to re-sign others including Freeman, Soroka and more. If Arenado/Bryant weren’t remotely available, if we didn’t have Riley or Camargo (and how well he did as 3B starter during his year-long audition) then I’d be a lot more concerned, but I don’t want to see what a 38 y/o Donaldson looks like in a Braves uniform for $25MM that’s not my own.
I dont think that’s true at all. Nolan has a huge contract liability attached
Not a single one of your predictions will come true for my re reasons than you can imagine.
Actually, Longoria might make sense assuming the Giants pay down much of his contract, and in return get a prospect like Kyle Muller or Kyle Wright. Braves would get a sure-handed glove and a 20-HR bat, and a guy who plays 130 games a year. Giants would HOPE to get a starting pitcher in a couple years.
Sure. They took on one bad year of Arroyo to get Toussaint. To take on Longoria’s albatross, Luciano sounds fitting.
Touche. But remember I suggested the Giants take on “much” of Longo’s contract. Just as they did with the Angels (taking on Cozart’s $12+M for Wil Wilson.) You know SF isn’t giving up Luciano and the Braves could use a relatively inexpensive solid 3B. Of course, if they can land someone better (but more expensive, like Bryant) I understand their reluctance. But this is a year the Braves have to solidify their top spot, especially if they want to get to the WS.
They deal with Pirates for Marte! Settle 3rd in house.
I’m not trying to troll but given the Red Sox season, what is Devers worth in a trade? His defense improved tremendously last season and all that control. I realize Boston will be trying to sign him long term but the position is covered in the minors and I worry that last season peaked in part because of the ball. That said, I wouldn’t trade him unless there was an overwhelming deal offered. I just don’t know what that would be. Atlanta is deep as everyone knows and his age fits right in.
I wish, but Sox aren’t trading Deavers. They just locked him up long term on a fairly team friendly deal and he’s one of their cornerstones for the next half decade.
I don’t think they extended Devers
Yeah. Devers isn’t locked up, but should be. he’s only at 2y, 22yo and don’t think ball plays much with his power. That kid is just flat out huge and strong, if anything he’ll outgrow 3b and eventually have to move to 1b down the line in a few years. 1st guy on the team Boston should be looking to extend NOW over anybody else due to cost and that includes betts.
@holycowdude
Maybe you’re thinking of Bogaerts?
Xman was the guy recently extended. I’m just curious with Washington and Atlanta in the same division looking for a third baseman, what the return would look like, especially if he’s dealt without Price or Mookie. That said, what kind of return would there be if one year of Mookie was added? That could get LA involved.
It’s funny you mention devers… I wonder what interest atlanta would have in a mega deal – devers, benny, and mookie for pache, waters, one of langeliers/contreras, and 3 young sp arms?
None.
I wouldn’t trade all three in one deal because separating the three into at least two years might return more. Bennie for example solo.
For devers y’all will have to eat every cent of prices contract and give up 3 of your top 5 prospects. Worth it ?
I’d love Marte, or take on Bryant, and move him around from 3B to LF depending on matchups..
Or the Braves could trade for Marte, and then also swing a trade with the Yankees for Andujar. AA, since taking over for the Braves, has prioritized defense in almost all of his acquisitions; however it has been reported that Andujar has already made some strides defensively this off-season. Not to mention, the Braves could also have Andujar work exclusively with Ron Washington on his defense, and it is likely Wash could help Andujar become at least passable at 3B.
With Marte and Andujar in the fold, it would significantly lengthen and strengthen the Braves lineup as a whole.
Acuña Jr.
Albies
Freeman
Marte
Andujar
d’Arnaud
Swanson
Inciarte
Or
Acuña Jr.
Albies
Freeman
Marte
Andujar
Markakis
d’Arnaud
Swanson
If the Braves are worried about the defense of Bryant they aren’t grabbing Andujar.
You beat me to it. Andujar is way worse then Bryant defensively so if they want defense he’s not the guy
But he is MUCH cheaper!!!!
Sometimes teams put up with a little less defense if the price tag doesn’t bite so deep.
If you’re going to go cheap and don’t care about defense, they have Riley. If they do care about defense, they have Camargo. If you’re going to spend the prospect capital it needs to be for someone that moves the needle significantly, and that’s not Andujar.
Wait, what’s wrong with Riley’s D? He was literally perfect in his small sample at 3rd, and was pretty damned good with no experience in left. He actually graded a positive defender overall, and with no prior experience in left, that’s a huge plus.
You know Riley is regarded as a plus defender at 3B with a rocket arm, right ?
Not to mention that he has basically learned that position in the minors and improved from the rating of “Won’t stock at third long term”.
He has.
Hmm wonder if the Yankees help put out those January “reports” on Andujar
Do people just believe anything they hear?
Marte isn’t a 4th place hitter, which is the real issue the Braves now have. They don’t have anyone capable of driving in runs after Freeman.
They already have that guy and his name is Adam Duvall. He will bat 4th and have an all star season with 40 dingers
Lol Duvall will do no such thing. He may have a 40 hr/600 PA RATE vs LHP but the dude can’t hit RHP and will be platooning with Markakis anyway. Plus, we really don’t know what to expect from Duvall right now as his time in ATL has ranged from absolutely putrid to solid in limited playing time
Duvall actually came up as a corner IF with the Giants. If the Braves get really desperate at 3B, he does have some limited experience there.
Interesting, I was unaware of this.
And he last played 3B in 2018 with Cincy. Only an inning, but still a show of at least some confidence.
I wonder if Oakland would part with Matt Chapman for the right package
I don’t think Oakland hurts it’s current team that much seeing how the Astros* don’t even have a manager. I think they’re competitive in that division this year.
That’s funny
Braves offer Wright Waters Riley Contreras and some other lower level prospects Athletics have to at least listen. Due to payroll constrictions they’d get a massive haul for cheap team control.
teams would die to have chappy
And then AA will be fired
Why in the hell would they offer all of that?
Not saying he would make the trade but it might be required, Chapman in a hitters park? Wow. His glove plays anywhere but that power outside of Oakland could be amazing.
Why would they offer all that? Cause Chapman is a top 5 3B who’s under team control for 4 more years and is probably the 2nd best defensive 3B in the league.
What you think the braves are gonna keep all their best prospect and acquire someone of that caliber for scraps lol?
When’s the last deal you can remember that saw a team acquire one MLB player more then two top 100 prospects move?
2019 post draft rankings had Riley in the top 25, Wright in the top 50, and Contreras and Waters in the top 100.
Since then, Riley has shown MLB ability and certainly would be a centerpiece for a trade, Contreras has a somewhat down year but still is hanging in just out of the top 100 and Waters has move up to the top 50.
That’s an INSANE amount of capital, not only in raw talent but the fact that all four players are within 2 years from the bigs (and frankly, all but Contreras are almost there).
“Probably the 2nd best defensive 3B in the league”. Matt Chapman is far and away the best defender at 3rd. He kills Arenado every year in all the defensive metrics and it’s really not even close. He may be the best defender at 3rd ever.
Lots of options still out there for the Braves at third base. My guess is the Braves stand pat and stick with the in house guys unless another team is desperate to make a trade.
There really aren’t other options at 3B …. if they weren’t willing to spend on JD, they aren’t gonna spend in both cash and prospect capital in a trade. That would be even more ludicrous than just signing JD to a 10 year deal lol
Spot on good guy! Call Theo and he will take u to the cleaners. Be patient and wait for someone who wants to unload and come in and add a quality player without giving much up
And that’s how you end up with nobody and lose 7 postseason series in a row.
lol now that’s spot on!
There are no options except trades which aren’t happening.
I still see the Braves as a great team as is. Carmago and Riley are not at all terrible options. They’ll be fine.
Great? LoL. I guess you think they are World Series champs or something? The Braves, like the Astros, are just another cheating team.
I see them as better than the Nats who won last year. It isn’t crazy to think the 2nd best team in the NL last year could win the World Series.
I know this is going to come as a surprise to you, but the best team for the first 6 months of the season, isn’t usually the best team during the all important 7th month.
wooohooo platoon at 3B and Nick Markakis or Ender Inciarte starting OF! In all seriousness, for a contending team whose window just opened, those are two holes you need fixed – ASAP. Bryant is a great fit but if they don’t find other legit options they are in for a long season.
Wait- what?
@bart cheating who?
Ignore them, Coppy found a keyboard again and is venting.
@runDMC lol wow.
Stupid
Do some reading. Literally none of the players ATL’s previous regime “cheated” to acquire are with the org anymore, they were released immediately. The Braves also weren’t the only one bundling contracts by far, the last GM was just stupid about it and got caught. they did not cheat in the same way HOU did
They have 3 probably platooning situations at the moment, weak hitting ender, Swanson is a wildcard, and no 5th starter… great teams aren’t built that way
You don’t have to be a “Great Team” to win a WS. You simply have to get hot at the right time. The Nats were far from a great team last year but they got hot at the end of the season. Also…what does a 5th starter have to do with a WS? The Braves are good enough to make the playoffs as is and I’m pretty sure their 5th starter wouldn’t start in the playoffs.
The “end of the season” starts May 24th now?
Well, kinda a ridiculous comment all around jflHoward…. sure the hot team wins, but we have to make the playoffs first to get to the World Series and if anyone is being honest, you can definitely question if the team is the best in the division or even good enough to make the wildcard game. 5th starters might not win you a World Series, but good ones do a lot to get you there. They win their fair share of games, they pitch deep into games saving important bullpen innings and less taxing of bullpen arms that may become critical in the playoffs. Don’t undervalue the importance of a 5th starter and don’t assume this team is good enough to win the division again… they are a good team, but nats and Phillies are continuing to dramatically improve (minus rendon thank god) and evening the mets and marlins are quietly building themselves decent clubs which will definitely take a few wins away from us next year
If the Braves had a strong COF who could bat 4th, they probably could get by that way at 3B. The issue is they don’t. Camargo/Riley would need to be hidden lower in the order, and right now, how do you do that?
Over last two seasons, Arenado is 4th in WAR (Fangraphs) at 3B and Bryant is 10th.
I can see the argument for Arenado being “all world” … although his .866 OPS outside of Coors last year tells me he’s very, very good (he’s elite defensively) but he’s not “all world”.
And Bryant is definitely not “all world” and hasn’t been since at least 2018.
It might depend on what your definition of the term is but the only guy that currently qualifies in my book is Mike Trout.
I am biased, obviously given my name, but if 7 straight gold gloves and a .799 career away OPS doesn’t make him all world, who do you consider all world?
Not trying to start a flame war, just genuinely curious who you rank ahead of him at 3B.
You think a .799 OPS is considered all-world?
.799 away OPS?? That’s barely GOOD.
His glove is elite, no doubt! But his bat outside of Coors is very, very good – yes – but not all world. And you need to be elite on both sides and for a number of years in order to qualify as all world, again, IMO.
Who is ahead of Donaldson in the last few seasons? Donaldson, Beltre, Rendon, Bregman, Machado.
Also, for possibles but limited sample size, Guerrero, Devers, Moncada.
Justin Turner is also on the fringe.
What are we considering “all world”? Offensively, Bryant has a higher career OPS, OPS+, and wRC+ than Arenado does (and in terms of OPS+ and wRC+, it’s not particularly close either).
Arenado is definitely all-world defensively and Bryant isn’t.
Bryant is a LF/1B playing 3B. Arenado is sooo far ahead of him that it makes up for any small variance in those stats you mentioned.
But look at just the last two seasons and I bet you Arenado’s numbers are way better in all three stats. There is the Coors advantage, yes, but 2018-2019 Bryant has been underwhelming vs 2015-2017 Bryant. And the Braves (or any other team) knows they’ll be getting a player closer to his 2018-2019 self vs 2015-2017.
Actually, in 2019, Bryant had both a higher OPS+ and wRC+.
Bryant was hurt most of 2018 so of course Arenado looks better over those two years.
Bryant was also hurt and missed a ton of 2018, and played hurt a lot that year when he did play. That’s such a flawed way to look at those two and compare.
What was his injury last year? Hurt feelings? Dude also comes off as mentally weak. Rizzo is definitely the strongest mind and leader of that team. Baez is right up there with Rizzo. Bryant was great in 2015-2017 but injured or not, he’s declined the last two years. Still young and very talented but it sounds like his relationship with the Cubs and even Cubs fans is beyond repair.
Kris played through knee problems most of the year. I know his DRS dropped quite a bit the last couple months of the season. So, the knee probably affected his defense.
He is not mentally weak. Give an example.
What are you talking about. He had a shoulder injury and missed a ton of time and tried to play through it and had to change his swing. It’s not hidden info, pretty much all baseball fans know Bryant was hurt most of 2018. I’m not sure why it’s such ground breaking info for you.
I said 2018 genius not last yr
The Dodgers are deep. Would the right young pieces get Jacob Turner to Atlanta? He’s a free agent after this year and seems like someone LA could parlay into some young, controllable assets
Dodgers would still have
C Smith
1B Bellinger
2B Lux
SS Seager
3B Muncy
LF Pederson
CF Pollock
RF Verdugo
Assuming you mean infielder Justin Turner, not former pitcher Jacob Turner.
As for Turner, if the Dodgers get Lindor, I’d assume one of Turner/Seager get traded. It’s quite possible the Braves could get Turner in this situation, though I think Seager is more likely to get moved, and most likely to the Reds in the event of a Lindor to LA trade.
Lindor from Cleveland will be cheaper than seager from dodgers. Where u not paying attention last offseason ??
What prospects you give us in the deal?
Also, dodgers have Justin turner
I mean, makes some sense for Atlanta. Turner isn’t really worth much so they could probably have him within their prospect/salary budget.
No
3rd place finish
If the Rox can get Arenado to drop the opt-out, I bet they could hold a team like ATL ransom for prospects.
Why would Arenado waive the opt-out? Asking sincerely – I don’t see any incentive for him to do that, but perhaps I’m missing something?
His incentive would be to join a winning organization, but it’ll likely be at the expense of some of his offense.
Yeah people don’t give away an opt out that important to join a winner. They can trade him with the opt-out, they’ll just get less. And he knows it.
He is not dropping that opt out without something in return. Maybe add a mutual option at the end of the deal for $32 million, with an opt out of $10 million? So pretty much, giving Arenado $10 million to waive his opt out clause.
No you’re not missing anything. Just some goof ball writing down his thoughts from fantasy land
Why would he do this? If he’s traded he doesn’t care about the prospects the Rockies get…
He doesn’t have to care. The Rockies care…and they wont pull the trigger on a weak trade offer.
Dropping his opt-out increases his chances of getting out of Colorado.
…unless he wants to spend 2 more years, in his prime, wasting away with a sub-.500 team.
Two years and a new contract? That also isn’t as weak toward the end as his extension?
Yeah. I think he wants to opt out unless he can’t earn a contract away from Coors.
You’re not holding any team “ransom” for prospects given Arenado’s salary and his opt out. The up side is not there for the team trading for him. If he plays well you get him at fair market value for two years. If he doesn’t play well you’re stuck with a horrible contract for 7 years. That’s not a situation to “hold a team ransom for prospects”. If he was on a team friendly deal then yeah, I could see your point. But that’s not the case. The Rox will not get the return fans think they will if they trade him. They will be trading him for salary relief.
Austin Riley, Mike Foltynevich, Johan Carmago, Christian Pache for Nolan Arenado, Jon Gray
Yes it sounds like a lot but your giving two stud young players with big potential “Pache & Riley “ and a reclamation projects “Foltz” and Camargo can fill in for Arenado in 2020 , and Arenado is maybe the best 3rd baseman in all of baseball and you get Gray also to balance out the deal and in my opinion this still leaves both teams being able to compete in 2020
You couldnt get NA for that package. Try again and this time try giving till it hurts. Because it will.
Good luck getting a top 10-15 prospect for Arenado
Its like they dont realise his contract isnt good, his contract is unpredictable in length, and they dont know his splits are so big. If they find a taker, Rockies fans are going to cry when they see what hes worth.
Of course, they wouldn’t be trying to trade him if he was actually worth what they think hes worth. 2 years and a comp pick is better than not stealing a teams farm? Good luck with that.
What??? With that contract? I mean, look I love NA, but you’re not getting both Riley and Pache for him. He’s got an opt out and a giant contract. The price is going to be fairly mild on NA. They’ve gotta get it enough to want to trade him, but they’re not going to get some big package because of that contract.
Rockies aren’t going to trade him for less. They’ll get crushed by their fanbase if it’s not a huge return.
just a question. who needs him more?
You guys really love Pache whew
-Guys ceiling is a avg Mlb hitter, and its not far fetched hes closer to Alcides Escobar than Ender with the bat
Albeit ill give you the every year Gold Glove upside
I dont think they view his as untouchable as you all might think
What’s wrong with allowing an opposing team to overvalue Pache? But then again, what’s not to like about a guy who has shown nothing but elite defense every step of the way and using that as a reference point? If nothing else, that gives you a solid floor, even if he’s Billy Hamilton and can’t hit water from a boat. He’s added power to his repertoire from having NONE in his career, the same way Acuna started breaking out. I don’t want to put Acuna and Pache in the same sentence to draw comparisons, but there are obvious ones to their games. Pache’s pitch recognition and plate discipline isn’t near what Acuna’s was, though his tracking ability and glove work is far above Acuna’s.
Point is: if, at worst, he’s Escobar, a MLB veteran and starting-SS on a world champion team – what’s so bad in that considering you’re pay next to nothing for that? This feels like all over again with ATL’s treatment of Simba and how they were worried his bat would never come around – and look what happened. It did, but in another uniform, while his glove continued to save runs at an elite level for team-friendly price.
Yea, I wouldn’t give half that.
I doubt they will take on 234 million if they wouldn’t take on 92 million.
This ain’t happening lol
Well it was fun while it lasted
Not getting JD was a huge miss on the Braves part. Any upgrades to 3B will cost more in a combo in both cash and prospect capital! How can you spend so much money on a much need bullpen, then get cold feet on JD? How can you look at your fan base and say we are doing everything we can to take the next step forward, when you are in fact taking steps backwards with historical money in the bank? JD wasn’t gonna cost us anything in the future even if he regressed! Anyone who believes he would cripple us in future spending is absolutely mad. We have a possible platoon in the outfield, Enders weak bat in center, platoon at 3B, platoon at catcher, a no 5th SP with question marks on other SP (Folty in particular). Championship teams are built on platoons and no reasonable plan… AA better have something better up his sleeve, otherwise your wasting Braves fans time and money for yet another year. Unbelievable
Atlanta wasnt prepared to go 5 years with 90 mil+ guaranteed. Smartly so. The Twins might begin regretting this signing immediately.
Obviously we weren’t and obviously the twins aren’t… Bart
The Braves have won the NLE two years in a row with guys like you complaining every single day.
They did a rebuild. It’s been incredibly successful – possibly the best in MLB the last 5 years. One meant to provide sustainable contention.
Most of their young players on the 25 man roster and in the minors are getting better. No reason to panic.
I mean, they’re in good shape but they haven’t won anything…
We won the division last year with Donaldson and we didn’t platoon is 3 spots on the lineup either of those years. Folty took a Huge step back last year… we might have won the division but we are playing with Fire. I’m ready to win now at what ultimately will not cost us anything in the future… plan and simple… just look at the book. I don’t want to trade prospects away to upgrade 3B… we had the ability to do that with a reasonable contract for JD. 5 year, trade him away for a bucket of balls to an American League team and eat the cash the 5th year. Especially if that means winning big the next 2…
Not dissing the Braves… but you’re playing for championships, not division titles. Time to open the checkbook to whatever it takes. Not for terrible value, but for what you need to win it all a couple times.
Divisional titles are still titles. I don’t get the mentality. I’d rather be in the playoffs every year and never win then go through another hard rebuild. It’s 21st century baseball. The wind blows and stokes a fire and you win eventually if you’re in October enough.
How about ‘not dissing’ the dodgers or someone that’s ‘established’ and hasn’t won since ‘88?
Hey I’m with you, I would rather win a ton than win just 1 World Series. Marlins have more WS than the braves since the 90’s but they have like only 5 winnings season in there. So I’ll take a good team over had any day. BUT, you’re missing the overall point. You build teams to win championships, contend for championship, fight for a WS. You don’t build teams that have to fight for division titles or wild cards and stop. When you rebuild like the braves have, you put yourself in excellent financial position to go for it in years like this year without mortgaging the future remotely. They are sitting on an abundance of money to take this team to the next level. And instead of taking the next stop forward (which was truly significantly upgrading the bullpen assuming JD would come back), all those bullpen upgrades flatlined us at best and our lineup took a giant step backwards. I’m sorry, but I can’t think of a championship team that had 3 platoon spots in the lineup and 2 pretty weak hitting position players along with that. Acuna, Ozzie, and Freeman can’t carry this team without more behind them.
I really don’t see what you’re seeing. Carmargo was a 3.7 win player in 2018. Dansby is a question mark for sure, but before his turf toe issue or whatever it was, he was truly productive, and showed to be one of the better players the last week and in the playoffs. Markakis isn’t hitting 30 homers, but his bat isn’t a limp noodle, and its singles/doubles contact to where they ain’t plays up with more guys like Swanson, Acuna, Albies, and Inciarte on base ahead of him. Inciarte is a question mark for sure, and while I would happily include him in any deal, he’s not paralyzing the team either. Honestly, the team looked damn good before inciarte got hurt and he and Dansby were playing at the top of their game.
This team may be missing some depth on the dirt and a traditional cleanup hitter, but it’s not totally sunk. Donaldson was useless in April, May, and September, and the team still won in those months.
They can bat Acuna and Freeman 3rd and 4th, and bat Albies and Swanson 1st and 2nd (Swanson did fine last year hitting 2nd before he was injured). d’Arnaud and Makakis can switch around 5th.
The Nationals won with a similar line-up in 2019 – the first 4 batters stable, using different guys each game in the other positions.
The name of the game is pitching. The Braves now have one of the best bullpens in MLB. Their young starters have to continue to improve. They don’t need to overreact and throw their long-term plans out the window because a guy they signed for one year came in and had a fine year (great signing by AA!). Rest assured that the Braves will either have 3B covered or they’ll bring in an established 3B during the season. There is no reason in the world they need overpay in prospects and salary in try to replace Donaldson at this point. It’s not as if 2020 is their last year of contention and hey have to pull out all stops before embarking on a rebuild.
I agree in the most part, but when the window is open you got to strike, while you can.
The window is going to remain open for years.
I don’t think you get it.
AA learned his lesson in Toronto in 2015 when he went all out with the window open. If all goes well, the Jays hope to compete again in 2021 or 2022.
Agreed. Freeman has 2 years left and still in his prime and very good veteran bullpen. They have young controllable pitchers that are going to get paid big dollars down the road. If you aren’t pushing all in the next two years it seems like a major missed opportunity.
Who are these guys that are going to demand big money down the line? Acuna and albies are taken care of already-
Down the line for pitching is more than 3 years out and not certain as well
And if Riley figures his discipline out and gets pitches to hit again, you’ll be saying ‘Josh Who?’ By 2022.
So you take your dynamic leadoff hitter out of the spot where he’s comfortable and provides a spark for the entire team and put him in a spot where he’s not comfortable and put other guys in a spot they don’t belong? That’s definitely how you screw up a lineup.
Camargo was pretty good as a starter, but couldn’t handle the bench role. Some players just can’t. If he’s made the starter again, maybe he’ll get his OPS back over .800. We can hope, anyway.
Looks like we have no choice …
This reminds me of the Braves 90’s playbook. Great pitching, tepid offense meaning no real chance of World Championship. Looks like they are settling to be competitive in the Division, but no real chance at a World Series title. Freddy Freeman should have demanded protection Donaldson provided, might see him leave next year to hunt down a championship.
Don’t be silly. Freddie is a Braves lifer.
Are you sure? That’d require the Braves going past 3 yrs, which they don’t seem inclined to do.
A) You dont have great pitching
B) You have no clue how the playoffs work, ” No real chance” cmon man you gotta with it, nobodies gonna take this gibberish serious when cloaked with so much hyperbole
Your about as bright as a broken light bulb. Looks like you forgot how the bats win it all. Tough for Freddie to walk out next year when he is signed for two more years
We will give them Turner for Acuna and cash considerations.
Well when you decide to trade for Mark Melancon for $14 mil a year you sort of deserve to see your 3B walk away from you.
Should have just traded the higher price for Smith last year and extended him. But you know that would force AA to think beyond 1 year deals for once in his life
How much you want to bet the Giants will be able to trade Longoria now?
The Giants would have to eat a ton of that ~$50M still due to Longoria to get any sort of interest, and even then, you’re really only getting a league average player at this point.
Giants seem plenty happy to eat cash for a prospect return. If a deal was out there for Longoria, they’d be getting it done.
Atlanta will take Longoria and his full salary for two minor leaguers.
Although, it’s really not even the payroll. The Braves are just cheap. Even with the higher payroll this year because of dumb moves Melancon and Hamels are both gone in 2021 freeing up $32 mil. Wouldn’t have been all that difficult to backload the contract a year if this seasons payroll was that much in question
Yeah yeah we’d have to fill the spots Hamels and Melancon occupy in 2021 too. When exactly can we stop paying $18 mil for a veteran pitcher and have these young pitchers take the reigns though?
Hamels was a waste of money. Just like Keuchel was a waste of money last year.
But the Braves are too afraid to go any longer than 2 years these days so Donaldson was never a realistic option.
Like always Braves are managing their team scared. Been doing it for years
I am going to be really annoyed if the Braves didn’t match that 92 million. The deal breaker prob was the 5th year buyout
Hey fellas, Boras, on behalf of Bryant, filed the service time grievance five years ago!
JD was smart to sign before Bryant has is case resolved. If he waited, and Cubs win then Bryant is a viable option for all JDs suitors. He got within striking distance of his 110M. He will probably end up with a couple 1 year deals afterwards if he still can rake.
Huh?
If the Cards let Arenado go anywhere – especially to the Cubs – that will be almost as big of a front office failure as not signing Scherzer (and probably worse if he’d go to Chicago). The thought of having to hear Len Kasper’s nauseating voice say “Arenado” for 7 years is scary.
Matt chapman and Ramon laureano for Ronald Acuna, who says no?
Both teams. Chapman/Laureano are too valuable to Oakland, Acuña is too valuable to Atlanta.
I’ll bet Oakland would do that. Acuna is a generational player.
Thats the craziest thing Ive heard all day, that wouldnt get half of Acuna when factoring in salary/years
Acuña has the most valuable contract in MLB. OAK is one of the cheapest teams in MLB. You’d get more from OAK regardless of how much you value Chapman/Laureano. If you’re not seeing a Trout-like return for him, you’re wasting your time, regardless of what you currently value Acuña at.
Don’t know why everyone is down on camargo. You can’t expect a major league hitter to thrive without consistent at bats. If I was johan I’d demand a trade.
Where are we in society when Johan Camargo can demand a trade? Are you actually being serious?
He’s Chris Johnson 2.0, in that he had a decent little stretch, and then fell off to his talent level. Frankly, I don’t know why some value him so highly. I’d trade him in a minute, no thought to it. I’d rather use the roster spot for Culby.
Did you watch the team in 2019? Carmargo didn’t play. How can you say that’s falling off?
I did. He picked up 232 AB, and turned them into -0.7 WAR. I didn’t want to see him get a full season to go for -2
Arenado is not waiving his NO Trade Clause for the Braves…..for the Dodgers, Yes !
Oh let me guess he told you that over dinner?
Good, LA can have him.
If Bryant heads to the Nats or Phillies…..Braves Fans will be screaming !
Right now, the Braves are fighting for third place with the Mets !
Lol okay.
Remember, Washington got mopped up for most of the year by Atlanta, and they lost their driving offensive force in Donaldson with an even bigger set of question marks to plug the hole.
Teams looking at Kris Bryant besides the Braves……
Dodgers
Rangers
Nats
Phillies
D-Backs
Padres
Padres won’t trade any prospect. Look at their history. Any trade w Dbacks Phillies Rangers nats will net u nothing or less. No chance u get the ss from nats- that’s all they got left.
That leaves the dodgers and Braves. Dodgers are the most savvy trading team in all of baseball- good luck w that!
Bryant will surely be traded. Best set the bar for return very very low
Haniger and Seager to the Braves
That would be logical at least and not cost the Braves half the minor league system.
Braves of getting a third baseman…..
Rondon…..Strike One
Donaldson…..Strike Two
Bryant……….?????
Braves were in on Hector Rondon? I know they looked at Rendon, but to think they ever offered him anything other than taking a flyer is optimistic.
I could see Anthopoulos swinging a deal for an under control guy like Jose Ramirez coming off an overall down year. His first 3 months were hugely disappointing but then he did really turn it up before he missed time in September.
I think the Indians would still get great value in return and with Ramirez contract steadily increasing through the team option years perhaps they view that as added budget space to re-sign Lindor as the franchise star. Especially if the return is centered around guys with renewable or controlled contracts…which I think is a safe bet.
How about…Riley and a couple arms in the consensus prospect rank 10-15 range for Ramirez? Who says no first?!
Coldbeer, Cleveland would quickly say no. Why would the Indians trade Jose Ramirez who is controlled for 4 years on a team friendly deal?
Braves fans, Cleveland has no reason to trade Jose Ramirez. Oakland has no reason to trade Matt Chapman. Move on to realistic pursuits please. Cleveland and Oakland are playoff contenders and have no reason to trade their star third basemen.
I just gave you 2 very clear reasons why they might consider trading Ramirez.
Cold Beer, your reasons for trading Jose Ramirez are so clearly wrong. A small market team builds on controllable good players on team friendly deals. They do not trade those type of players. As for your idea of clear value – Riley and two 10-15 rated system prospects is only a clear value for the Braves.
What? Some guys in the 10-15 range?
You tell me if it were the other way around? You picklin someones pepper for their 10-15 prospects- Cmon man snap 2 it
Riley would be the center piece of the package.
Riley, a player that the Braves will not commit to, for 4 years of a controllable proven MLB player on a team friendly deal. Stop, Cold Beer, while you are way behind. Cleveland is not trading Jose Ramirez.. If Riley is such a good prospect, Atlanta should just put him at third for the 2020 season and coach him up to show improvement.
I think the smart move is to stay pat at the moment. Roll with Camargo and Riley at 3B and bring Pache and Waters up for the OF and the team will actually be stronger than last year.
matt thaiss for ian anderson?
Surprised that Chisenhall hasn’t come out and said he would play third again
The latest on the Braves third base plan is they are going to suck. And not have a cleanup hitter.
Kind of like WSH, right?
Because of what they were willing to pay Donaldson and for what his contract price is and the years he is signed I believe the closest matchup is Bryant.
Now who do I think they get is a different story. I now believe the focus will move to signing Ozuna and letting Riley and Camargo fight it out in ST with Riley eventually taking over.
I myself would rather see them sign Castellanos because I believe he is going to be the star of this years free agent class. Sign him for 4 years and if his defense drops off even further you can always trade him to an AL team because his bat will be there.
But don’t rule out a Betts trade. For 1 year and his price it won’t cost crazy in terms of prospects. And the more I think about it the more I think they go down that road. Boston wants/needs to cut salary and the Braves have the prospect capital to make a deal.
I see a Betts for Greene & Wright working
That’s rich. Tell me what else you see in that foggy crystal ball. Hoffa in there?
Typical Braves they have an excuse on everyone instead of coming out and saying “ we are cheap and only care about making every possible cent”.
Mark Bowman is reporting the Braves are focusing on the OF. If that is the case I hope it’s Castellanos over Ozuna. With Ender & Acuna playing in the OF the defense could fall a bit in LF. But I wouldn’t be mad at Ozuna as he is a legit cleanup hitter and he is not far removed from GG status so he is at least capable out there.
But watch for Betts his prospect cost will come down to how bad the Dodgers want him.
Gonna be interesting
I’d be interested to hear what Tampa would take from Texas or Atlanta to part with Yandy Diaz…
Yandy could be an interesting option that I have not heard anyone write or talk much about as a possible trade target.
The Braves will be fine with Camargo at 3b playing regularly. If he played 140 games I’ll guarantee you he hits around .260 with 20 to 25 homers.
That’s a drop off from Donaldson. If we couldn’t get to the WS with Donaldson why would you think this is fine?
The issue is not 3B the issue is clean up hitter and there are other options out there other than Donaldson.
We obviously wanted JD but our price & length but yet sgain all you No DH in the NL fans out there this is another example of if the NL had the DH the NL team woulda got the guy.
Watch Betts or I could see Story from the Rockies. Possibly they visit Stanton and see if he is willing to waive his no trade. Between what the Marlins are paying down and what the Yankees could pay down he may not be a bad guy to look into.
I have a feeling it’s going to be Betts.
Your delusional, you know this right?
What makes me delusional ???
I am not saying the Braves will do any of these moves just giving examples that JD was not the tell all be all.
Bryant
Castellanos
Betts
Arenado
Ozuna
Story
Stanton
Hanigar
All guys that could fit into the lineup behind
Freddie
You don’t think the Yankees would love to get out from Stanton’s contract ? If they are willing to pay some down and he feels his time in NY is not enjoyable it’s possible
Rockies want to trim payroll if they can’t move Arenado then why not Story ???
Possibilities all over it’s not the end of the offseason
Like I said my bet is they focus on Mookie
Let us get off that idea trading for Betts people. The cost will be too high in prospects to get him first. Then he will cost too much for the Braves to keep. If the Braves thought they had the money to spend/waste/blow or not worry about, they would have paid the 92 million for Josh. The Yanks trading Stanton could happen, it was talked about last year. He can’t stay healthy though.
Austin Riley is the answer at third for Atlanta! He just needs more time to see MLB level pitching & his strike out rate will get much better. Donaldson in cold weather Minnesota is another injury waiting to happen. Prediction: Twins regret decision! Too much of a gamble for the money.
Hind-site you would be singing a different tune if he was a brave
I thought he REALLY wanted to go back to ATL?
Answer is already in-house. Move Freddie back to 3rd!!
Can we just stop with the Bryant rumors? He doesn’t solve any of Atlanta’s problems. He can’t play defense and he’s not a cleanup hitter.
Bryant cannot play defense ? I bet he is also not good with the bat…..
ROY, MVP, Hank Aaron award, Golden Spikes, ASG starter….. all were flukes
Sure hope the Braves do not have you as a advance scout !
This is one of the stupidest comments I have ever come across.
Braves for sure know they have a hole in the lineup in a major spot that impacts the effectiveness of the entire lineup. They also know there is a big question mark at SP.
AA is not a dummy , he knows this and he knows the Braves are closely positioned to go to next steps (ie, actually WIN a playoff series or 3).
I don’t think they will waste that opportunity on hopes and prayers to fill these major holes.
Very interested to see what AA does…
I have a hunch the answer (or part of it) may come from Cleveland.
Donaldson’s clutch hitting sucked in post season. Austin Riley needs a chance and Camargo too. Not time to panic. We have to look long term.
He wasn’t the only one. I don’t think they were steadfast on their price because of a few postseason ABs. If nothing else, you can look past that with how big he was most of the season. That being said, there are other options and it was still a risk ATL chose not to take. Good luck, MIN. DH is nice to have.
If this was January of 2018, I’d agree you go Riley. There were no expectations then. At this time though, prospects shouldn’t just be handed chances. The young players need to earn them at AAA, and the ML club should be focused on winning. Right now, that’s going to be tough without a #4 hitter. If they get an OF who can slot in 4th in the order, then alright, and Riley has a nice spring, then ok…
Camargo is a replacement level player. That’s not the answer.
Just my 2 cents worth but with Donaldson his age was a issue, if he was 30-32 the Braves probably go the 4 years at 92 million. I wish him the best, he played all out for Atlanta and he did what he feels is best for him and his family. I can respect that.
Camargo & Riley platoon….I think that’s why the Braves signed Josh to start with. Maybe they do better now or maybe they can’t ? Only way to know is try it again.
I agree with many that a big bat behind Freddie is a must, JD gave him good protection in 2019, they had to pitch to Freeman. Must find a proven power bat who can handle hitting 4th, if not they can pitch around Freeman again.
Braves either fix 3b or LF, and it looks like there are more options for a bat in LF.
I blame BJ upton, even bob horner. Big time free agent players who failed to live up to their contract. Free agent hitters haven’t preformed well in Atlanta. Pitching on the other hand is a different story, but the hitters just don’t preform well.
Kris Bryant it is, folks. He’s coming to Atlanta. A trade with the Cubs makes too much sense for both parties involved to pass on it.
The question is…what will it take besides the Cubs dumping salary? Shaving off that $18.5MM from Bryant, alone, is a big deal to the cash-strapped Cubs.
I’d assume Austin Riley headlines any deal. Who else? Bryse Wilson or maybe Touki Toussaint? I don’t see it going much higher than that. Maybe add in another MLB-ready player, specifically, a reliever…Jacob Webb?
I don’t think the Wrigley Gang could expect much more than that.
“makes too much sense for both parties involved to pass on it”…isn’t that the same thing said about Donaldson back to ATL…???
Bryant, at best, has 2 years left on his deal — and we aren’t even sure of that based on a yearssss-long grievance that still hasn’t been settled. If I were Theo, I’d be begging for a ruling so he can get a return on his investment. Based on AA’s time with ATL, he is NOT going to give up significant prospects for 1-2 years of Bryant. Only reason he gave Donaldson a record-breaking AAV ($23M) was because it was for 1 season without giving up any prospects.
With Arenado the only other competition next to Bryant in any 3Bs available, and COL is rumored to have suitors willing to take on ALL of his deal, I can’t imagine CHC is going to eat much, if any, money on Bryant and significant prospects. That’s what COL is expecting for Arenado, who also has a 2-year opt out and a full NTC that Bryant does not.
Yes, I don’t expect Theo will eat any money on Bryant’s contract, that’s fine, Atl can handle the money…it’s just a question of what is the ask for Bryant…how unreasonable will it be?
I’d be amenable to sending them Riley and another prospect, and maybe a reliever, like Webb, but that’s gotta be about it.
I know this…they ain’t getting Ian Anderson, Kyle Wright, Drew Waters or Christian Pache. That just isn’t happening. I doubt they get William Contreras, either.
I could see MAYBE sending Bryse Wilson or Touki Toussaint with Riley. Any package is gonna hurt, but it’s also gonna hurt not having a cleanup man, so I think some sort of deal needs to get done. We’re kinda backed in a corner, so AA is gonna have to come off a prospect or two whether he wants to or not.
I mean, it did make sense to bring back Donaldson, but only to the point that it made sense…and 4-5 years does not make sense. I’m ok with him leaving if he had to have anything over 3-4 years, even 4 years is out of the comfort zone.
I just don’t see Riley being ready to take Donaldson’s role nor do I think Nolan Arenado is a real possibility. I honestly think it’s gotta be Kris Bryant, as soon as this grievance is settled. (How much longer could this POSSIBLY drag on? First it was an outcome by the winter meetings, then after the new year, now we’re at the mid-way point of January)
You kidding me? No thanks. Riley hit ..226. Wilson is not even top 5 prospect in Braves system. Touki Toussaint has 5.62.
Basically you want to give young trash for former MVP.
Move along.
Austin Riley is a pretty good in house option. Will be on same level as these other names soon
You just dont get it… You think cubs are gonna go for Riley and some mild prospect to basically fold 2020 by giving up an all star 3rd baseman.. Nationals would trump that garbage offer in a heartbeat with Rutledge-Kieboom +… Phillies trump it with Bohm-Howard… Dodgers Gray-Downs- Gosilon… Rangers Jung-Crouse+.. Even Rays could trump that garbage with Honeywell, Baz
This is why I really hope cubs do not trade with the Braves… Fan base over values every prospect just like the Yankees and Cardinals, every player in their system is some sort of baseball God!
You remember hyping up Kolby Allard and Shelby Miller like they were the next glavin n Maddux … And here we are with Wright, Anderson, and Poche who is the next Billy Hamilton , but you all think hes the next Acuna
If Cubs can’t get 2-3 prospects from the top 5 in Braves system then it’s not even worth it. A former MVP who still had a great year last year considering he was injured and is 28.
My trade would be:
Braves get: Kris Bryant & Quintana or Lester (take your pick) & Schwarber
Cubs get: Pache, Waters, Anderson
Braves need a starting pitching, Wright had 8.69 ERA, Wilson had 7.20 ERA (I know, only 20 innings), Hamels is old, might not replicate 2019. Quintana/Lester will take 4th or 5th starting position.
Schwarber can take left Markakis is 36! or center, Inciarte hit only 5 HRs and BA was .246. And can DH when playing against AL teams.
Braves will have a solid lineup with Bryant and Schwarber
Cubs hope the 3 prospects live up to their expectations
Lol are you high?
So Cubs are just gonna fold 2020 on some prospects… Leaving holes at 3rd, LF, And rotation lol… Wow swing and a miss
Not folding at all. Cubs need prospects for Bryant, They need to revamp outfield. They don’t need Quintana or Lester, they can get rid of one. See this is the plan. Starting Rotation is no issue at all.
3B = will goto Bote. He is no Byant but his OBP is .362 which is amazing.
Rotation =
1) Lester
2) Hendricks
3)Darvish
4) Anderson (from the Braves, they can start him after a month or so in minors)
5) Chatwood or Rhea. And we have Alzolay and Mills.
Outfield will be Happ, Pache, and Heyward. Even though i dont like Heyward….no one will take him. If you can unload Heyward then perfect, sign Castellanos.. And eventually, Drew Waters will replace Heyward.
I would also trade Contreras for a top pitcher and outfielder/infielder. And you basically have your team set for few years.
So there’s Braves Fans thinking cubs/Theo (whos contract is expiring soon and if he doesnt put a winning team out there this yr n next or get it set up for a quick push to open the window back open or hes not coming back)would trade Kris Bryant for a less than stellar package …L..O..L!!!
This is why I hope cubs don’t trade with Braves and trade with Phillies (Bohm-Howard) or Nats (Kieboom-Rutledge+) .. Or even dodgers (Grey, Gosilon, Downs)
Braves fans are as bad as Cardinals and Yankees fans when they talk about how amazing their prosepcts are… Like Shelby Miller or Kolby Allard… When they were in Braves system they were also the next great pitchers …and look how that worked out…. Good luck winning a playoff series or even the NL East , go ahead and keep Billy Hamilton 2.0 aka Pache..
Hopefully cubs keep Bryant if not I hope that he goes to Philly