The Red Sox have avoided arbitration with outfielders Mookie Betts and Jackie Bradley Jr. Betts, according to ESPN’s Jeff Passan, will receive a record-setting $27MM for his final season of club control. Julian McWilliams of the Boston Globe, meanwhile, tweets that Bradley will earn $11MM. Betts’ record payout comes in $700K shy of his $27.7MM projection from MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz, while Bradley’s $11MM salary is an exact match with his projection. The Boston organization also locked up righty Brandon Workman to a $3.5MM deal, per MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand (via Twitter).
Betts’ contract sets a record for an arbitration salary, topping previous record holder Nolan Arenado’s old mark by a full million dollars. He’ll head into his final season of club control as one of the more fascinating storylines in baseball; Red Sox ownership reportedly is intent on dipping south of the luxury tax, and while there’s been no indication that the team is definitively planning to move Betts this winter — much the opposite, as of late, in fact — they could find themselves in a trickier situation as the trade deadline approaches.
Boston could yet take another run at extending Betts, but the former AL MVP has been vocal and candid about his desire to test the open market once he accrues six years of Major League service. As such, the team’s previous efforts to hammer out a long-term deal have fallen flat.
It’s another case altogether with Bradley, who is also entering his final year of club control but is a much more plausible trade candidate. Moving him wouldn’t dip the Red Sox below the luxury line in one fell swoop, as moving Betts effectively would, but as the season draws nearer it’d be a surprise if Bradley’s name weren’t bandied about the rumor circuit to an extent. While his overall season numbers in 2019 weren’t particularly eye-catching, Bradley hit .252/.342/.504 over his final 422 plate appearances and has long been considered a standout defender. Given the lack of center field options available in free agency, he could yet hold appeal to a club looking for a short-term boost in center.
Suspicious.
Odd comment.
Even…suspicious
Arbitra-shunned
with the OF market as it is, no one’s touching 11 million for Bradley.
DarkSide830,
That’s okay he’s worth it. Red Sox fans are glad he’s back patrolling CF!
I like JBJ, he’s worth every penny.
Said by a fan whose never watched him play
The kid is a guarantee for at least 3 outs a game
Its safe to say he would have 3 balls hit to him in CF, on a fly, per game, so yes, Mr Ambiguous Commentor, he is good for 3 outs per game.
The interesting part is what will he get next year?
Wow ur really smart the guy can’t hit if the ball was on a T-ball stand
They could use that 11m on the bullpen and a out fielder that can hit a little better
Really? Who?
Listen Case I was going n watching games when bleacher seats were$1 and Campy Campeneris(spell check) played when they went to west coast. So….”you know nothing Mcase” lol.
Joke confirmed
I’m a sox fan and JBJ is the bane of my existence…
Overpay.. I like mookie.. But I wouldn’t have paid him this.
Jack hammer,
That’s cause you don’t know talent when you see it. He and trout are the two most exciting players in the game today all around talents!
He is very good but not a top 2 player. Very good still
triber4life,
Open your eye’s buddy. Trout/Mookie are the best 2 all around players in the game today hands down!
You are delusional if you don’t think he’s top 2
123Redsox,
Exactly, guys like Mookie/Trout are my top 2!
I’m a Yankees fan and know that Betts is better than all but Trout at this moment in baseball.
No. I’m not taking him over Lindor or Arrenado. They both are better all-around players and Lindor plays a more premium position. Betts would not be that good if he was not playing RF in Boston. If he was playing in say, SD, he would not be considered elite defensively. He also would not put up those offensive numbers outside Boston, which is made for him.. Also, you don’t have to take just my word for it.? This topic was on MLB Tonight a few weeks ago when they asked it about the Lindor vs Betts conversation. All of them took Frankie. No bias at all. And they mentioned the same thing I just said about the ballpark fitting him and the defense. They also mentioned, which is true, Frankie is a franchise player, on and off, the field. That’s something that is not talked about but is valued. Trout, Frankie, Bryce, and even Tatis have that asset that draws people and nothing against Betts, he doesn’t have it, no matter what anyone thinks.
You know what, i’m tired of arguing. I’ll let the rest of the commenters handle you.
I think a strong case can be made for Yelich over Mookie
I’ll take Bellinger, Arenado,Lindor,Yelich and Judge over Betts.
@ Spooky. I have Betts 4. He is still a fantastic player but he is not top 2.. I can see and respect your list. I have had others mention Yelich. I wouldn’t personally take him over Betts but I can see where some might.
@triber – that’s some high grade homerism if I ever heard it.
Mookie has more talent than lindor. Claiming playing RF in fenway is somehow an easy placement shows your ignorance. RF in fenway is MASSIVE, you need CF talent to keep it under wraps. You’ve got a short pole on the corner that turns deep quick, with a shallow wall you need to guard against ground rule doubles. Because it’s so wide to CF you need speed to get around or lots of extra hits drop on the grass.
Lindor may be the preference to trade for, but not because of talent. Lindor is cheaper, and, isn’t a FA until 2022. Considerations like those are what some talking heads consider when asking who do you acquire… but it’s not who is the better player.
Lindor – 2019 4.7 war, 28.6 last 5 yrs.
Betts – 2019 6.8 war, 39.7 last 5 yrs.
It’s not even close.
Betts – mvp win, also placed 2nd, 6th, 8th with 4 GG and 3 SS last 4 seasons.
Lindor – no mvp, placed 9th, 5th, 6th, 15th with 2 GG and 2 SS last 4 seasons.
Try watching someone other than Cleveland once in a while, there’s tons more talented players in mlb than you guys have.
Rose colored glasses ya gor Triber boy
You really want to take Arenado and then question Mookie’/s offensive splits? You sure about that?
@atlsoxfan Betts more talented? that’s funny. I actually watch baseball instead of catching the highlights. check this…Betts plays on a team with better offensive players. I know you may not think that matters but it does. players around you matter. Our second-best offensive player might have been Roberto Perez last year. Enough Said. Put Lindor with those high price salary teams BOS puts out and I say Lindor passes those numbers. Put Lindor with the Dodgers and he might be considered the best player in baseball due to the market, which helps Mookie with perception. You got a lot of Boston fans out there who still think their one of the best.teams. We don’t have that market and people don’t see Lindor as much. Also about his defense? Betts is made for that RF. Simple as that. . He would not be as good in another OF. He is a good def OF. not great. You also seem to fail to mention he has a gold glove OF he plays with. Take JBJ out of that OF. Would he still be that good? Nah.. The only homer is you. I am a tribe fan but Lindor is not in my top 15 of fave players. I don’t have any reason to talk him up at all. If that was true, I say Lindor was better than Trout or my fave SS (Tatis) is better than Lindor. My personal fave team doesn’t change the facts. You, like many BosSox fan want to believe Betts is top 2 when he is not. Go ahead. You can keep telling yourself all you want. He is very good. just not top 2 no matter what you think. He also is not a franchise draw player. Maybe Ortiz slipped you some of his PEDs and you got overly excited. i forgive you P.S. The MLB tonight was not just talking about control when they took Frankie over Betts, so that argument is void.
Arrenado and his 798 OPS away from coors field is better than betts??? Keep smoking the glass pipe
Lol at Arenado. Check out the home/road splits. He’s only elite because he plays half his games at Coors. Away from there, he’s better than average and has a great glove, but he’s not elite.
Is that a fair comparison? 2000 ABS at a stadium he plays at all the time (comfortability) to a mere 200 abs at another park (which he has only 4 other parks he has over 200 ABS. an honest fair representation? 200 vs 2000? It’s the same reason people believe Betts is that great defensively cause he plays RF in a park he is used too., I take Arrenado and Lindor every day of the week over Betts. The defensive is a wide margin and offensively, they are close.
No one is comparing his numbers at coors to one park ya dunce.
@spooky I’d like Bellinger and Yelich to have one more great year before putting them in that level. Arenado is a Coors Field hero; away from there, he’s only above average. I can at least see the arguments for Judge and Lindor, even if I don’t fully agree. I just see Betts’ ceiling as higher because his game is so well-rounded.
Sorry, RF is easy in Fenway? Guess again
It’s 2000ABs in one park to 2000ABs total in other parks, so yeah, it’s a fair comparison. He’s still better than average with the bat, but he’s no superstar away from Coors.
@triber(homer) – try reading. I never said top 2, I said better than lindor hands down.
I also never said mlb only considered control, but, you seem to acknowledge they factored it in, and, omit to engage on salary considerarions.
Mookie has also been hitting leadoff, not getting protection from the 2-hole hitter or much set on the plate in from of him by the #8 or #9 guys even in AL play when it isn’t a pitcher in front of him. Nice try.
Next up, players GG rating has nothing ZERO to do with who is next to him on defense. Neither do dwar calculations, it’s only based on the player. You could put pujols in CF and it’d make ZERO difference to how well mookie grades defensively.
If you want to argue betts is “made to play” fenway’s Rf, then you contradict yourself… it takes cf ability to play a very competent rf in fenway nevermind elite, otherwise you give up hits. So if mookie put up ggs being there, you pretty much have to agree with the fact he’s got true CF talent to be there… which negates your assertion he only rates that good because he is hidden in that Rf as if it’s an easy place to play.
You also ignore that only 81 games are played in fenway to begin with. We’re that the case you wouldnt be seeing all that hardware or good ratings since 81 games are on the road.
Don’t think the kid’s got a pretty darn great arm too? Last season, ON THE ROAD (emphasis for you) mookie threw Garcia out at 3rd in Tampa from the warning track in RF – over 300 ft, no bounce.
Not the first time there either, 2016 cut down kiermaier at 3rd also in tampa.
And the gems go beyond that.
Just admit you’re wrong, lindor isn’t better than betts, and go home rather than trting to put words in my mouth I didn’t say, rather than trying to refute what was said.
Unless you compare AB to AB, then maybe the splits don’t matter as much. He plays in the stadium for the team he plays for. This is also not the same Coors field as years before. It’s a narrative, same with Reds Park. Not saying their not offensive parks but I think they are very much less skewed as before. Arrenado can hit anywhere.
If having better players in a lineup made other players better, then by your logic Lindor would make the other hitters better. But by your own(and wrong) words, they weren’t good. Carlos Santana was a better hitter than Lindor or anyone else on the team. Ramirez, despite his early struggles, still produced more than Perez also, as did Naquin. And if having JBJ(who actually wasn’t good last year defensively) then the same can be said for Lindor and Ramirez on his right side.
Last year, his home OPS was also about 200 points higher than his road OPS. Face it, he gets help from that thin mountain air. Who he really is, is probably the guy who goes to San Diego and Wrigley and Atlanta. If a team with a really hitter-friendly park, like the White Sox, traded for him (not saying that will ever happen), he may be good enough to remain elite, but I still doubt he puts up numbers this good.
You just think you’re right because you are Sox fan because for some reason you are entitled to that? Sorry, bro. doesn’t work that way. Lindor also hits leadoff on a much worse offensive team. So, that negates any chance with that beine point. Also, defensively, it doesn’t matter who is next to you?. . You’re saying having a GG glove CF doesn’t matter? That’s news to me. I say Betts would feel a lot more comfortable with JBJ beside him than Pujols. Wouldn’t Betts have to cover less ground with JBJ? i think so. I say he is made there cause he is used to angles.. He is a RF, not a CF. You want him to patrol CF in Boston full time? wouldn’t. He is not Billy Hamilton or Buxton out there, Let’s not get it confused. I seen alot of great throws over the years. I am not saying two throws make a difference or Puig would be the best def OF or Hunter Renfroe, who has a cannon. The fact you think Betts is better than Lindor hands down says all I need to know. Good luck with all that.
@kenny Santana was good last year no doubt. Ramirez was solid. Not great. He was not the regular Ramirez as he was. Naquin played 89 games, so not sure I count that as a good season. Perez was good at backstop for what you want out of a catcher. You’re missing the whole point. Betts has players to surround Betts. Lindor doesn’t have that, no matter what you believe.
@triber(homer)- again, you try to misquote and spin rather than engage on the points.
I never said mookie was better because he got less protection than lindor.
YOU said mookie got better stats and/or protection from better hitters by virtue of boston being a better ball club than cleveland. That arguement only really works if the guy is protected by anyone close to him in the lineup that, well, hits or sets the plate better. Guys like leon, our patchwork of aaaa 2b fill-ins, etc hardly count to set the plate, and having 2019 version of benny behind him actually discourages giving mookie anything good to swing at if you can help it.
I give an example of a guy having a decent arm and you pretend that’s all he ever did and place his defense at the level of puig.
Given you entire inability to defend a single sensible arguement in this thread I’ll leave you to your own devices and homerific view of lindor being a top 5 mlb talent… (he’s good, but nowhere near that good)
Ramirez is not an elite defender. Maybe you watching another Jose Ramirez somewhere. JBJ is a great def OF, even if people are using this one year not to say so. I go back more than one year. Defensive metrics have weird years. Happened to Brantley in Cle. One year he was good. next, he wasn’t. according to metrics. It’s better to look over a long haul of defense than a set year and one-year saying JBJ is not great not doing it for me.
@atlsoxfan cool story bro. whatever helps you sleep at night. Just another idiot i can ignore on here. smh
Oh well, if the geniuses at MLB Tonight say so, it must be right. WAR doesn’t say so. OPS doesn’t say so, nobody paying attention says so, but..
That’s called “appeal to authority.”. Betts is the #2 player in MLB. Accept it. It’s pretty obvious.
The reality is when it comes to WAR Mookie has been the second best player in baseball. You can argue semantics all you want but the fact remains Mookie is a distant second to Trout.
I really like Lindor and he plays the more premium position but the numbers say he hasn’t been as good as Betts. If you want to argue that he will be the better player going forward then fine you can be entitled to your opinion and you might be right. I also think Arenado is a great player but the fact remains Mookie has been the 2nd best since 2105.
Mookie has been a fantastic defensively in arguably the hardest right field in baseball. Since 2015 he has hit he has hit for power he is a great base runner superb defense including a gun for an arm. He is true five tool star since 2015 and has been the second best player in baseball. Will he continue to be the second best I have my doubts is he worth a 10 year 380 to 400 million contract he will be seeking I also have my doubts.
If Betts wasn’t in Boston, he would be in CF or 2B, the position he started at.
Judge? He needs to first stay on the field for a full season to be considered on any top list. Only Trout gets an injury pass. Since his rookie year, Judge just can’t stay healthy for an entire season.
I don’t respect WAR. What holds Lindor back somewhat are his his recent injuries.
Fenway RF is actually the hardest RF if not any OF position to play between the way it quickly just out and becomes deep to the angles to the sun, it’s brutal. Only he and “my namesake” have made it look easy. It’s part of the reason why I push so hard for Evans to be in the HOF. Everyone looks at his offense and remembers his arm but he made it look easy out there like Mookie does.
Yankeepride88,
Thank you being a Sox fan clearly you must be a smart Yankees fan.
Tribe,
Your crazy betta/trout are way better by a lot. At least mookie has a ring which none of the rest do
@Brun1h, You’re not taking into account the team he has around him. You can argue you all you want but the WAR is influenced by the money Boston uses to put them with him. Put Lindor with the team Betts has had and he has a higher WAR up to this point. Lindor has changed to become more a swinger to help his team. You do things sometimes to help your team even if it hurts your individual numbers. Lindor has done that, like moving to leadoff when he could be in a spot to get more RBis. That’s what a leader does. Also RF? you all can say it is the hardest ? I think not.. CF is the most demanding OF position. He is in RF, not CF? why cause JBJ is a better defensive player. He also has played RF in Bos and is used to the corner, so it does look easier and make his defense look better. It’s that simple and Betts would not be considered an elite def if he had to play CF, a more demanding position. Betts also is not a franchise guy. No one is saying that “I want to play with Betts”. I have never heard that ever. It’s the same reason baseball analysts take Lindor over him. Betts is overhyped cause he is in Boston. I can’t say he is not a good player. He is very good but , you’re right, he is way behind Trout and behind Lindor and maybe Arrenado.
That post absolutely owned this conversation. Itd be out of delusion to attempt to debate it.
Triber you can’t argue numbers. And you just provided us with 2 of the most clueless and incorrect references to the outfield at Fenway that I’ve read in some time.
@gronk. Okay. cool story. You can join that idiot AtlSox fan. You can go the game together. You got to talk Betts up cause BOS will be irrelevant in that divison this year. smh
Yankeepride88, Same.
Spooky,
You should take a sobriety test first.
AtlSoxFan, also I thinks came up as a Second baseman, did he not? Point I’m trying to make is, in Fenway Park, it’s not as easy going from an infield position to the outfield, as Betts did.
Also, didn’t he go to Center Field first before moving to right?.
hahaha Betts top 2 thats the funniest thing ive ever heard…let me say exactly whats going to happen…Betts will sign a ridiculously overpaid contract by someone other than Boston and will fade within a couple years…
Theredsoxrule,
I’m sure Pearce is your favourite
Really? Machado is making 30 a year, Harper is getting 30, and you think that 27 million for Betts is an overpay. I wish he could get on a team that has the ability to pay him what he deserves. Betts is a better athlete than Machado and Harper, he has shown that he can hit better than each of them (even in a down year… which his down year was a .900 ops.). You are underpaying betts, so be happy.
Rangers29,
Agreed. Hes also not a you know what too. Machado taking out Pedroia. Harper fighting teammates. You don’t see that with Mookie!
Yeah, that’s why I like Beltre so much, cause he didn’t bring all of the drama to the field.
Rangers,
Hell of a player he was mad respect for him!
Problem is what $30m every day player has been on a WS winner. List is small so lower it to $25m. Other than a starter that stays healthy, putting so much of your budget into one player hasn’t been successful for baseball.
Dewey, I think part of that problem with that characterization is that the 30m contract is pretty new. To be reasonable I think 25m 5-6 yrs ago is every but the same as 30m today.
Still, theyre out there. Even if “everyday player” means leave out the most recent examples of pitchers, for a fact in 2009 a rod made 33m on the WS winner.
Problem is, up until just recently 30m for a position player didn’t really exist, and, the handful that did were the tail end of mega deals on an overpay to attract guys in long term deals.
I don’t believe in the old 8m/war phooey, but, I will sign up at 4.5m/war.
No matter how you slice it, Mookie is one of those rare worth over 30m/yr guys right now (and probably at least 5 more years on the low end).
But even at $25m, who? $20m free agent? Most may improve a team but arent key contributors. JDM is one. Heyward? The Cubs won in spite of him. 2009 Yankees but who else?
He would likely have gotten at least 700k more in arbitration. And you don’t non tender a top 5 player in the game smh
123RedSox,
true that
Non-tender? Not a chance. The sides resolved it because what were the projected numbers they were going to put in? Most compromise because the difference is usually not worth the risk. If Mookie was projected at $27.7m, say he comes in demanding $29m, unless they Sox come in at $25m, they likely win. Same thing the other way.
Agreed. Total overpaid. Man, athletes salaries!!!. Some of us simply chose the wrong career.
julyn82001,
You don’t like it dont want and done chime in on it!
Chose the wrong career? The vast majority of us couldn’t hit .120 against MLB pitching. (look at the average Pitcher’s BA, and they play baseball every day!) Thousands of young men will “choose” this profession this year, and never sniff the majors, or even earn a minimum wage salary playing baseball.
You’re either joking or seriously misinformed. Not a single pro baseball player, minors or majors, makes a salary anywhere close to minimum wage. Most don’t accumulate wealth, but don’t insult the millions of American who don’t even make minimum wage. In terms of compensation, professional athletes aren’t worthy of sympathy.
Minor league baseball players typically start out somewhere around $1,100 per month and often work more than 40 hours per week, while constantly on the road. So yes, they are working for minimum wage practically, while risking becoming hurt and having their careers ended at any moment. Life as a minor league baseball player is not as luxurious as you might think it is.
Ha… I’m guessing that God made that choice for you…
I saw his linked in profile. Stuffs envelopes full of coupons at Valpak. *BUT* he is up for a promotion, to Senior stuffer next week.
clepto in for trolling bully strafe. Again, no baseball comment, just an attack from on high.
Dude, you are about 20 years late with this comment. They’re all overpaid.
So you would’ve non-tendered him? Seems legit.
11M for JBJ. Wow. I almost think I’d rather be paying Miggy Cabrera in 2020.
The Ghost,
And that’s why your a Bobby Bonilla fan. I’ll gladly take JBJ hes incredible defensively in CF. Miggy is a heck of a talent but at this stage in his career i’ll take JBJ for the defense.
Defense in center is a dime-a-dozen
123RedSox,
Not to many that can take hits away from players like JBJ
Except his defense wasn’t that great last season… Betts I can understand but this is a crazy overpay for a defense only CF who had a down year defensively on a team trying to get under the luxury tax
Marner, come on man, he’s not worth 11M
11 mil for a glove only player is asinine, especially for a team that is having luxury tax issues.
Dtd_atl,
He’s won a WS. Be awhile before your Braves get another one. Smotlz and Maddux can’t help ya win one outta retirement
JBJ for $11 mil is ridiculous. His defense wasn’t even elite last year.
Well done signed and sealed Lets Go! New season fresh start make some moves and lets lock up Mookie long term!
I’m speechless for a change. I guess Mookie earned it, but really it’s a payout for 2018 production even if he got a good amount last yr. I’m kinda surprised Mookie accepted that off n didn’t wanna go for for, like he plans to do at the end of the yr. The RS wanted to make him the face of the team n get paid accordingly like they did Papi, but I know with the newer players they could care less bout that.
pasha2k,
Your speechless… doesn’t seen like it. You guess maybe actually watch some Red Sox games there is nothing he can’t do. He accepted it cause he wants to stay in Boston. He is the franchise and you have to build around players like him. Glad hes back for 2020.
He accepted it because it was a record deal for a player about to face arbitration and he wasn’t going to get much more if any more in arbitration.
There is still a chance he stays past 2020, but this doesn’t mean he’s a lock.
Marin, I watch, n have watched every RS game since the bleacher seats were $1. Mookie good player, no doubt, but he needs J D in the lineup n try not to get hurt, which I know that’s been responsible for a lot of his low production spots.
This is a good sign that Mookie will resign with the Red Sox as long as they do not trade him., ie…. like Strasburg resigning with Nats after playing his contract out to Free Agency..
Now just trade Price already.
Cooperdooper7,
Agreed. Whatever it takes to shed some salary to keep him im down for!. Love to see Price gone!
if I were the Giants, I’d tell the Sox I’d eat all of that contract for Bobby dalbec, Chris Murphy, and Cameron cannon. that would be 3 prospects and an unknown in David price for 96 mil.
If I were bloom I’d hang up on you after that proposal
Blooms not hanging up on anyone willing to take on all of prices contract for nothing but prospects
I’d say yes he is, given what was asked for in that package.
You may disagree, but price has some value, just not 32m worth.
To give away a pitcher who is probably worth 18m/yr on the low end for free, plus throw in a needed guy like dalbec, plus others, is a non starter.
He was hired to rebuild the farm. Not give away what little is left, plus an asset with some value, for nothing.
18 mil per year?!?! Lol that is absurd. He is an aging pitcher who has turned into a very substantive injury risk and has put up middling results over recent years. 6-8 mil per year is a lot more likely than 18, that’s insanely and unrealistically optimistic.
He was hired to rebuild the farm AND get under the luxury tax. Price really doesn’t have that much value and I really doubt anyone would give 18$/yr for 3 years to a guy who is frequently hurt and frankly not that good when healthy. My personal opinion is if the Red Sox want to deal price they have four options: 1. Get some prospects or decent Mlb talent but eat a decent amount of salary and then look to other trades for the tax. 2. Have the other team pay most of his salary but get essentially nothing in return. 3. Pair him with someone else teams might actually want (a benetendi type) and get the other team to take on a lot of salary and give up prospects. Or 4. Do a bad contract swap.
I don’t see a way to get under the tax and rebuild the farm with just price. If you do, I think you’re severely overestimating price’s value/talent. Just look at his stats against the Yankees…
Cooper, Price by himself does not have much trade value. If he gets traded, it will be with Mookie.
That’s not true. If the Sox eat some salary he has plenty of value. He’s a vet big name starter that is a year removed from winning a WS and still has top of the rotation potential. If the Sox want quality prospects back and don’t eat as much salary then they’ll have to attach other pieces, but not if they take lesser prospects and eat money.
Nobody thinks price is a top of the rotation starter. He’s injury prone and overpayed. He has value as a vet in a market without a lot of available starters but let’s be a little realistic here.
The guy had a cyst removed from his wrist and you make it sound like he’s got the back of David Wright.
Last season price put up a good 2 war before the allstar break – imperfect as that is for a pitcher. But at that same time he was one of the leaders in mlb in era at the all star break too.
In a healthy season he’s still a 4+ war pitcher on the upside, and 2+ on the low side. Even injured last year he was a good bit better than league average, even with an era well above what his FIP said it should be counting those couple injured starts before the surgery.
He’s no 32m pitcher, but he’s no washout. Solid #2/#3 upside, #3/#4 downside, and if you haven’t watched contracts this offseason, there’s value there
Hasn’t had a healthy season in 3 years
Easier said than done. I realize I’m likely dreaming but I’m hoping St. Louis is still interested in Price and the prospect the team just got from Tampa was because Bloom insisted on it and now the Price deal can go down.
I’m assuming you mean Price + someone really good like Betts or Benintendi right? Because a deal involving Price and Liberatore does not even come close to happening without attaching a real player on your end, there’s no demand for an aging pitcher with so much injury risk who isn’t putting up star numbers anymore.
It has nothing to do with him signing long-term.
Best of luck trying to trade a broken down pitcher who’s making $32 AAV the next 3 years
$11 million for JBJ is a deal. Look at what Eppler gave the Dark Knight and the other bums last year.
You mean bad deal, right? He can’t hit and his defense is replaceable.
DTD_ATL
get your eyes checked
I have good vision, and he still can’t hit. His 2019 wasn’t really better (if at all) than 2018, not sure how that calls for a $2.5m raise.
He’s a 1-dimensional player.
Look at what the Yankees gave Gardner.
Gardner was good for 4.0 WAR, JBJ? 2.0 WAR. Gardner was well worth the extra $1.5MM over JBJ. No comparison. Nuff said.
I’d take that deal too.
Gardner had a career year at age 35… JBJ is 29.
Not sure that’s a good investment. Let me know when Gardner’s contract is up, how good a deal that was.
You better hope he plays every game against the Orioles. 17 games at .286/ .408/ .540 really helps inflate those stats. 76 of his 550 plate appearances against the Orioles last year. That’s 14% of his plate appearances against 1/29th of the clubs.
That’s where Gardner’s value is… against terrible teams. He has a history of choking against top competition.
BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG
Gardner’s is a one year contract. 4 WAR to 2. JBJ faces the same clubs. A lot better than JBJ. That was the point we were arguing, Not all that other garbage you’re now spouting.
All that garbage? You mean facts?
OK, you prefer to have a guy that builds his stats on beating up on Baltimore, which is no where near a threat, as opposed to a guy that has built his stats on beating up on Yankee pitching?
In 17 games: .370/ .424/ .648.
Beating up on Yankee pitching?
Career .267 average against
.227 career against the Orioles
How are the Red Sox possibly going to get below the luxury tax limit like they said they would? There is no market for David Price or Nathan Eovaldi. Bradley is a huge overpay at $11M. I thought that they might DFA him this week. They need to trim approximately $30M from their roster and I see no way of doing it if they are committed to keeping Betts and Bradley.
Why is there no market for Price and Eovaldi, they are starters, and I know plenty of teams that need starters.
Rangers29,
Cause those people like to talk smack about the Sox. Starters get hurt don’t work out get sent down so many things can happen you can never have enough. At some point there will be a market for them.
Because Price’s salary is way out-of-whack and Boston doesn’t seem prepared to swallow nearly half of it. Eovaldi after last year and with his salary is also way underwater. Two tough pitchers to move and Boston has not seemed capable of doing so.
Remember one thing it does not matter what your payroll is at the start of the season it matters what it is at the end of the season.
The Red Sox could break camp with everyone, I doubt it but they could. If it looks like they have it this year and then they can go for it one last time before resetting. If they look poor then they can trade assets including Betts and get under the lux tax line. I’m not saying this is going to happen but it could just saying. This would be a gamble but it could pay off handsomely especially if Price shows he is healthy and comes out firing.
Cant believe that Bradley Jr. is still property of the RedSox. Thought for sure he’d be traded by now with the thin CF market and all the teams that need a CF.
Texas, Philly, Arizona, NY Mets, Atlanta, Colorado, SF, SD, Cubbies, Toronto and Mariners could all use a CF upgrade. Even non-contendong teams like Detroit and Baltimore have a glaring hole in CF and could acquire Bradley Jr for pennies on the dollar as far as prospect return.
Marte, Kiermaier and Buxton I’m sure are all still available or were at one point. One of the more surprising things of this offseason to me is the lack of CF transactions.
Because Bradley is overpaid and Boston seems unprepared to eat some of his salary. That’s the only reasonable answer.
Looks like the Red Sox listened to Matt Swartz!
Betts is only a top 2 player in even years. He’ll be worth $27 million THIS season
I think that Betts gets moved at the deadline if not before. Boston has said they want to get under luxury tax.
And who says cheaters never prosper?
Some of these comments are interesting. JBJ made $11M last year so paying him $11M again is really his value. He’s one of the best defensive CF’s in the game and obviously a streaky hitter with good power from the left side. Of course he has a market. A lot of teams would love to have JBJ at &11M. The Sox are obviously playing nice with Mookie. They didn’t want a contested arbitration because they are trying to sign him to a long term deal even if it’s later in the year. It won’t be easy since Mookie like to drag negotiations to the very end but that’s also risky for him. He could get hurt etc. so this will be interesting. They prefer to trade Price and maybe JBJ or another player but it’s about what they want in return and how much of his contract might they be willing to pay. In addition some teams might prefer to see Price pitch in Spring Training before they commit to a deal. David did not pitch toward the end of last year and he’s due about $63M over the next 3 years. I like the fact that Chaim Bloom is being patient. I sincerely doubt the Dodgers would be willing to give up what the Red Sox would want for both Mookie and Price knowing that Mookie wants to be a FA at the end of the year. We know Trout is at $450M and we don’t know if Mookie would agree to $400M. It was reported (not confirmed) that in early 2019 the Sox offered Mookie over $300M and he turned it down.
Try $96MM for Price. And no, Mookie is not going to sign before he gets a taste of FA. He’s made that much perfectly clear. If Mookie doesn’t agree to something south of $400MM he’ll be SOL. He turned down the Sox offer because he wants a bidding war. No telling what he’ll get until the year gets played out.
The small market Rays owe Kiermaier $36 mill over the next 3 seasons. Why is Bradley at $11mill for one such a drastic overpayment?
He’s better than everyone making more than him except Trout. A true 5 tool star.
Good. Then he can bring in a blue chip prospect from somewhere. I’m done with Mookie.
Based upon what I’m seeing I have to assume that the Boston Red Sox are not going to be able to get the low the 208 million-dollar luxury tax threshold and I suspect they will have to incur whatever penalties and costs come along with that. I have to assume that what management said at the end of the 2019 season is bullshit about wanting to get below that 208 million-dollar threshold. I have no idea why they would have made a comment like that and then so pitifully kept doing what they have been doing all along which is spending all kinds of money and ending up out of playoff contention. maybe they just wanted to make the fans think that they were frustrated and thought that by cutting costs and hiring somebody from Tampa that the fans might have some hope that we could make lemonade out of lemons. It appears we’re going to keep the same old lemons and I have no idea full be able to make lemonade out of them. LOL
Price and Betts to the Giants for their best 2 Minor league pitching prospects plus Yaz and Shaw and the Sox include Dalbec or Chavez and maybe some cash.
Re. JBJ -now offer him a 3 year deal for $20 M to
make him more tradeable.
I agree that there’s something to the idea of signing JBJ to a multi-year deal that lowers his AAV—3/20 sounds about right. The Sox have leverage because the 11MM doesn’t kick in as a done deal until sometime in February, and they can threaten to release him, which would free the club of 80% of the 11MM. However, having him for 3 years at 6.6MM/yr would give more development time to Duran and Jimenez (or allow for finding another suitable replacement) while holding down one OF slot in the face of possible (probable?) Betts departure and Benintendi move.
Brilliant idea!
Not a real story on Betts. Kind of surprised they’re keeping JBJ considering they haven’t found a taker for Price. I thought they were trying desperately to get under the tax threshold. I get that he’s a solid defender, but they could find other glove-first guys for cheaper.
Guess Boston will have to find a way to make lemonade out of lemonade with the lemons that they have on this current team. Good luck.
Whew, $11 million for Jackie Bradley?
Somehow I get a feeling that, everyday that Jackie Bradley and Jayson Heyward look at their bank accounts, they thank the heavens for analytics. Any other era, and they are 4th OF, late inning defensive replacements who bounce around from roster to roster, barely teetering above the league minimum.
Agree 100%
I have to wonder why John Henry even made the announcement that the Boston Red Sox were going to make an effort to get below the luxury tax limit of 208 million dollars? Can anyone point to any moves that the Boston Red Sox have made to reduce payroll? Oh yes, they traded Sandy Leon. LOL. That saved them big bucks. Can anyone think of a logical reason why John Henry made the announcement that he wanted to cut payroll and hired a cost cutting Head of Baseball Operations who has done virtually nothing? Does anyone have a clue on what this organization is doing?
I agree. To get under the tax limit, Red Sox must move either Betts or Price, plus Bradley or Eovaldi. If they do not get under the tax limit, the consequences are dire. Not sure what they are thinking. Maybe the trade offers from other teams have been really bad.
But what exactly are the consequences? Perhaps it’s more dire to get a bad deal? Any thoughts from anyone on the tradeoffs?
The consequences are not that dire let’s be real. They won’t be above 246 million so no draft pick or international signing bonus reduced it’s just money. The Red Owners can handle that so dire consequences are quit a big exaggeration.
So if the owner doesn’t mind spending the money and we don’t lose a draft pick then what’s the problem?
now they can trade Betts because the offers will be better
Why? It was known that Mookie would be paid something in the $27-$28MM range, and now he is. The market of teams that can afford that much and are also willing to pay that much are limited. And if they need to make a substantive trade package on top of that, even more limited. We’re basically talking the Dodgers, and I’m not sure they really want him that badly.
Does this mean there is a lesser or greater chance that the Dodgers will trade for Betts? Obviously won’t be until July.
Am I wrong to say that a arbitration eligible player cannot be paid less than the year prior?
Is JBJ really worth $11!?
Nope. Not even $11.
John Henry is contradicting his words from last Fall’s press conference in an interview he did today with Dan Shaughnessy of the Boston Globe. In the interview from last fall John Henry stated that the club needed to be below the CBT threshold in 2020 and in today’s interview he’s going the other way saying that he intends to stay competitive and not let cutting payroll supersede the need to be competitive. So if one can interpret Red Sox actions of the off-season so far it follows that John Henry and management must believe the team is currently competitive as they have not added or subtracted from the team in any significant way and have done little to reduce payroll. If this team remains as it currently is it is hard to imagine it making a significant run without better starting pitching and a significant closer. There is always the risk of injury and then there are the penalties of too high a payroll which must be balanced with TV rights in going or not going to the post season vs. the gnawing feeling you are being screwed for paying too much money when you see every other team that made the playoffs in 2019 have a worse record than you with a lower payroll and in the case of Tampa and Oakland a significantly lower payroll. Obviously better scouting, drafting, acquiring and player development is a key piece to ongoing competitiveness. The trick is to figure out if paying a Mookie Betts or Mike Trout type player is worth giving up the resources to obtain 50 – 60 league minimum players or if a team is better off reducing it’s risk and diversifying? Sort of like the concept of buying the S & P 500 Index vs 1 stock. If risk management is a key to financial success why wouldn’t it also apply to baseball?
This is exactly why I think Boston may start the season with more or less what they have right now.
I think what happens with Henry is what happened with the Red Sox last year. He was extremely disappointed in how the season went last year, just as all Red Sox were, and said what he said in a time of frustration. He has had time to think and for his GM to test the market and probably realizes it will be better to start with what they have and see how it all breaks down.
The Red Sox can still sell off pieces at the deadline if they fall out if not then they are the thick of it and it would be worth going over the lux tax again. Management knows if the Red Sox are in the thick of the race they will lore then make up the amount of tax dollars they have to pay. I really doubt it’s a money thing with Henry it’s an efficiency thing. They will look to become more efficient in the years to come.
I agree with you 100%
I also think John Henry is really interested in how Tampa and Oakland have been able to be so competitive at a fraction of the total payroll Boston pays. that’s why I and I’m wondering if John Henry is starting to reconsider the big expensive long-term contracts and maybe going to more of the model that Tampa and Oakland used which has been to offer shorter-term less expensive contracts and put the money into acquiring and developing inexpensive young Talent. If you think of it logically Mookie Betts would cost you as much as 50 or 60 minor league players per year and the risk of Mookie Betts getting hurt has to be considered versus the probability that out of 50 or 60 young players one of them could easily be as good as mookie and you would only have to pay them up fraction of what Mookie’s getting and it would be for a short term as opposed to mookie locking in for 10 or more years. so that’s what I’m wondering if John Henry has seen the light and is impressed with the Tampa thought process efficiency that you mention above.
Here’s another idea. rather than offer everybody long-term contracts why not let an arbiter decide each year what a player should be paid in the following year and do it on a year-by-year basis or we could let the player go to the highest bidder each year. We could also allow people to be free agents from the get-go and not have drafts and just let people sign with whatever team they want sort of like what you and I have when we have a job we don’t have to stay with that employer we can give notice and move on to work for whomever we want to work for? This whole concept of a draft and a vesting time until free agency screws the young players and the fans by overpaying older players at the expense of over the hill non productive players and raises prices for the fans.