Some may have scandal fatigue, but there are good reasons this one isn’t dying a quick death: the high level of anger from rival players and a still-running string of questionable statements and (non-)actions from those in positions of power. Today’s comments from two prominent, respected players — Mike Trout and Justin Turner — served to highlight those points and ensure we’ll see further rounds in this controversy.
Trout, the best player the game has seen in quite some time, is reserved to the point that he was once publicly chastised by commissioner Rob Manfred for not making himself marketable. How’d he respond to Manfred? “Everything is cool between the commissioner and myself.” Suffice to say he’s not easily ruffled.
It was rather remarkable, then, to see Trout unleash some venom in comments to reporters regarding the Astros’ sign-stealing escapades. As Jeff Fletcher of the Orange County Register was among those to cover, Trout said not only that he “lost some respect” for certain Astros players, but also that he did not “agree with the punishments” meted out by Manfred. In particular, Trout was not pleased that players were not punished for their misdeeds.
Trout’s comments stand out less for their content — we’ve heard similar sentiments from many others — than for the speaker. Many of the game’s other very best players have reacted similarly, but it’s rather different to hear those words come from Trout, who rarely expresses a public opinion on much of anything and seems destined not only for Cooperstown but a place on a very short list of the game’s greatest-ever players.
Then came Justin Turner, whose words stood out because they landed direct hits on Manfred. We’ve seen some other challenges to the commissioner — from Trevor Bauer, for instance — but Turner was responding especially to Manfred’s interview yesterday in which he attempted to defend his handling of the crisis. Lending added weight is the fact that Turner earned his veteran standing through years of grinding.
Turner directly contested several of Manfred’s points. The commissioner called himself “a precedent guy” in explaining why he didn’t want to strip a team of a title for the first time. Turner employed a tidy bit of legal jujutsu on that point, observing that this was a novel issue on which Manfred “just set the precedent” — “a weak precedent.” Similarly, Turner challenged Manfred’s explanation that he had prioritized ascertaining and publicizing the truth of the underlying matter. Per Turner, players are frustrated in large part because “the commissioner didn’t do a good job of revealing all the facts to us.”
The elbow drop was set up by Manfred’s ill-conceived characterization of the World Series trophy as “a piece of metal.” Per Turner: “For him to devalue [the trophy] the way he did yesterday just tells me how out of touch he is with the players in this game. At this point, the only thing devaluing that trophy is that it says ‘Commissioner’ on it.”
man, last sentence is pretty harsh
That last sentence is spot on!
Astros are cheaters, 2017 will always be tainted to real baseball fans, they can carry their trophy but it means nothing, Altuve isn’t an mvp and they aren’t champions, they are cheaters and always will be
Altuve’s cheating hits Judge right in the wallet. He is starting arbitration years not as a former MVP.
The truth can be painful, but it’s still the truth. Whenever a player is now brought up for discipline this Commissioner’s words will be thrown back in his face. Astros aren’t going to like those road games.
Yeah, Jeff wasn’t kidding when he foreshadowed that figurative Justin Turner “elbow drop.”
Right in the ol kisser. Ha ha ha ha ha
It is perfect. Man free is the worst commissioner MLB has had in my lifetime.
I bet some of the owner are thinking of getting rid of him. He has made the scandal much worse by sweeping it under the rug like it didn’t happen.
At their direction, collectively. List the team owners who have spoken about this scandal publicly, other than Crane, who we all now wish had zipped his trap. You may use this space: ___
Or this space_
I doubt the owners would get rid of him, he kicked the mlbpa’s ass last negotiation. You don’t fire a winner.
Piker!
The union is so badly run that a chimp could eat their lunch.
JJ, you and I are on the same page for once
@HalisHeavenJJ – you were born after Selig left the job?
The WWE narrative is lame. This is the Jedi vs. the Dark Side. Dyersville, IA is Tatooine, and Luis Robert and Nick Madrigal will save the universe!
Noone needs to save the universe, balance will always prevail with time.
Isn’t any WWE fan narrative juvenile at the very best? The only completely unanimously uneducated audience…though NASCAR and NFL try their best.
Manfred needs to resign, he’s lost all credibility and the respect of players and fans alike.
Well said
Well said
Turner for Commish
I got mad respect for Jusrin Turner! Way to call this fool Manfred out lol
Ok Mike, and your “Therapeutic Use Exemption. PS, I’m not an Astros fan
That was debunked after bing started by Scott Broscuis loser son
Evidence?
Strike 1
Strike Four?
Evidence?
Evidence?
YOU’REEEEEE OUT!
That was a conspiracy theory bro. Didn’t actually happen. David Brosius is a lying idiot.
Brosius isn’t the only one who knows about it. It’s a well known secret inside of MLB that he uses steroids for his “Thyroid” problem.
Are you going to reply with any evidence or just ignore everyone?
I’m good at ignoring people.
Your comment seems doubly ignorant. You didn’t respond with evidence and you used quotes around the most significant gland in the human body.
And I bet you believe in the Tooth Fairy. Complete nonsense, withdrawn and debunked. That’s what is well known around baseball genius
“I’m good at ignoring people.” ………. You are also good at ignoring facts too keyser_soze.
The names of players who receive TUE’s are released each year after the conclusion of the season. Don’t you think one of the media outlets would have jumped on a TUE for Trout had it been true or are you just intentionally obtuse?
Do you know how many different types of steroids there are, and what they’re use for? Do you know the difference between a cortico-steroid and an anabolic steroid? Of course you don’t.
People shouldn’t talk about things which they know nothing abot.
Everyone asking for evidence on this and talking about how it was debunked is hilarious. Also zero evidence for Astros using buzzers and debunked by the commissioner’s report but no one seems to let that stop them from believing that conspiracy theory.
It was NOT AT ALL debunked by the Commissioners report. There is a massive difference between “we found no evidence of buzzers” and “buzzers were not used”.
This would mean a whole lot more of this came from an independent third party that doesn’t stand to benefit by making this go away as quickly as possible.
Like bks.
Besides him never testing positive and the commissioners office saying they don’t give hgh exemptions? That enough evidence?
WHO said it was HGH he was taking???
The Astros are known liars and cheaters. Trout is not.
One gets the benefit of the doubt and the other do not.
Hope this clears it up for you.
PS- And until they come up with a story that is not moronic for Altuve’s behavior regarding his shirt, there is ample evidence, actually.
AMEN… Altuve being clearly SO worried about his teammates ripping off his “camiseta”, immediately after a HISTORIC home run, when stripping naked and doing cartwheels would almost be acceptable, is very interesting evidence. I use the word “evidence” very loosely, because obviously nothing was actually found, but after such a monumental homer, you’d think he wouldn’t care about ANYTHING… Him THEN running into the dugout to put on his American League Pennant shirt, before returning to the field for celebrations and interviews; even more strange.
On top of that Altuve situation, the MANY photos of various Astros players with what looks like a device underneath their jerseys when at the plate? Even the more suspicious.
Very happy that some of the most respected players in the game are speaking up on this. Justin Turner’s response was SPOT ON — Grand Slam JT.
Actually, correct!
Great dumb @ss’s on this site continue to spew conspiracy theories
Nearly the same day, that was said to be a lie
The Gulf of Tonkin wasn’t immediately found to be a lie. It was but unless you were a N Vietnamese with a video camera and gps you wouldn’t have had proof and American service men were sworn to secrecy upon pain of death to imprisonment.
Who said it was a lie? Altuve’s teammates? I wouldn’t trust any of them, even if they would swear to it.
Yep, it was all a conspiracy. No trash can, no cheating, and, most importantly, no buzzers. You nailed it lessthancommonsense
Wtf are you saying? I’ve been one of the most vocal anti Astro people here. I’m a dodger fan who went to the 17 World Series. F OFF
Please just stop writing comments until you know the facts dude. There is no truth to Trout using PEDs. No exemption. Get a clue.
GTFO troll
Wonder how much Chris Correa found out about this and never reported.
That’s 2013~2014
Daaaaaamn Justin! Love it!
Fire Manfred!
When trout gets mad everyone gets mad.
For sure. I think if a vote were held as to whom the ambassador of the game is, he would be the man. Nice to see some choice words.
Did Yasiel Puig retire?
I hope so…
The one who needs to lose his job over this whole thing: Manfred.
The guy is just absolutely terrible for both the sport’s integrity and its future all the while disregarding its past.
He obviously has no respect for the game, its fans, or the players.
I agree. Fans should take Fire Manfred banners to the ballgames. Don’t let up until he’s fired or resigns. Fire Manfred chants would be great too. #firemanfred
WTF is Fireman Fred?
ortsac…
Can you read?
Hahahaha!
That’s unfortunate, but hilarious
Hashtag fail
WTF is ortsacnilrats?
Apparently you’re the only one that got the dad joke.
What? Go to games and hold up signs? Boycott all baseball games, merchandise, and television broadcasts
And yet that doesn’t happen. Could it be because Manfred is only saying what his employers think and don’t have the nerve to say in public themselves? Could it be that ownership is hiding behind his skirts and letting him take the heat so they don’t have to? Maybe? Possibly? Or would that be without a freaking doubt. Now, who is it exactly that obviously lacks respect for the game, its fans, or the players?
Is there any chance the league comes out and makes a “new findings” announcement and suspends players as punishment? This seems like it will not end until players involved are punished. And as much as I don’t like the astros players, I don’t want to see anyone get physically hurt when players start throwing at them, which is no doubt going to happen
He granted them all immunity because he was afraid of the union.
Because the players got immunity for this fiasco, i would think Manfred told the union, “hey guys, for this time, we’ll let the players off free, but clearly they were the ones instrumental to this. but for the Red Sox scandal that we are also working out, we gotta suspend players. just a heads up”.
I just see it as something that both the league officials and MLBPA agreed to to save face of the sport. but if players arent suspended for the Red Sox cheating, opposing teams will flip their brains out and you can only imagine the blowback from the media and fans.
Bingo.
Doubt it. For some reason he thinks the union can argue that major leaguer ball players didn’t know using technology to steal signs and then bang trash cans was illegal
You know, that’s how I played as a kid so idk…. what a joke
I missed where this went from a trade rumor / transaction site to a general gossip site.
What ballplayers (Mike Trout and Justin Turner) have to say on this obviously enormously impactful scandal is very newsworthy. It’s the most important baseball news topic of the offseason. You must not be interested in baseball news and what ballplayers have to say about important events in the sport. I found the article very revealing.
Probably around 2008 or so. You’re clearly new here.
Guessing you accidentally opened the post?
Astro fan
Expos fan. No dog in this fight until we steal half of the Rays.
It’s over. Manfred made his ruling, and the owners are behind him. Dozens of clickbait stories about other players being crybabies isn’t going to change anything now.
You sound like an Astros fan.
The league did their investigation and NO evidence of buzzers appeared, so fans continuing to say they were used are merely voicing an unsubstantiated opinion.
Second fact: the players were granted immunity in return for their testimony which is common when laws are broken. If Manfred suspended players for a whole season, he must suspend EVERY player that was on the team at the time in 2017 and that includes the players doing most of the complaining like Fiers that are now on other teams and it affects the whole league, per Garret Cole that is now in New York. It involves the whole Red Sox team and the Dodgers would LOSE Betts and Price for the 2020 season. Actions have repercussions, even if others ignore it and say wait, you can’t do that, those players are on my team now and it isn’t fair they are suspended for the year. Fans can’t have it both ways.
Third fact: The Dodgers wouldn’t be awarded the trophy because they didn’t earn it, they LOST to both Houston and Boston, so it destroys that theory fans may have had.
Fourth fact: The issue was dealt with, warnings were issued for the present and both fans and teams are now free to move forward, knowing serious penalties apply if ANY team does it in the future.
that’s an MLB authentication sticker
it looks like a piece of scotch tape, not something electronic
who seriously thinks a player would put a prohibited device on the exterior of his bat, right there for the HP umpire and opposing catcher to see?
no one with a brain is arguing that titles be awarded to LA, that’s dumb. but there is good argument to vacate the titles however improbable that outcome may be.
you posit an interesting theory if what everyone suspects is true about the pending report about the Red Sox…
problem with your no evidence found theory is they investigated way back in 2017 and said there was no evidence until now. now there is evidence of them cheating and even ex-astros saying the cheating went on. So to say no evidence should be phrased MLB gave the astros a pass on it. sounds more truthful.
If you have a problem with our choice to dedicate time and energy to the most significant storyline of the offseason, you’re free to scroll past the Astros content.
Also: You appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the term “clickbait” means.
You love to call people names who don’t agree with your biased views. Moron, idiot, what else can you come up with? You need to be banned.
They don’t care about the facts, Ashleyr. But thanks for trying to get through to them.
Thanks for playing ashley.
I know some are saying that Dodgers should be awarded the 2017 trophy. That will not happen. However, the title should be vacated for 2017. That is where Manfred made his mistake.
True. The Dodgers didn’t win the 2017 World Series. Neither did the Astros.
lol they insinuating Manfred will be released?
leave?
Triggered?
My downvote works just fine and I just gave you a thumbs down.
Ask for a refund if this topic bothers you by not being a trade rumor/transaction…
Oh boy – let the games begin. This is not over in a longshot. I’m worried about baseball
Honestly, I am starting to believe that this is Manfreds master plan for baseball.
Install a villain, make someone totally hated, and make any game they play must watch baseball.
Angels are up first against Houston. Their opening day starter should be a minor league opener. Send him with a message.
Everyone’s watching.
It would be Machiavellian of Manfred to be this underhanded, but I don’t think he’s smart enough. He just keeps making it worse at every damn turn.
I mean I have never seen a singular person unite all players and fans so concretely before, we have been making up stuff out of thin air to hate people (Puig), so to have someone so obviously against the game itself where he clearly doesn’t respect it like we all do, is a new one.
See Goodell, Roger.
I said that yesterday. Quit stealing material Dane cook/carlos mencia
lmao imagine thinking like this
no @shawn hemp, you do not “own” conversation topics nor does anyone.
Goodell looks like a man of the people compared to Manfred being a man of the profit
U commented on it and stole. That’s my intellectual property bish
Turner not pulling any punches. In trying to look at this through the commissioner’s point of view, this is a near impossible situation to handle. With that said, he has bungled this from the beginning and keeps making it worse on himself every time he speaks on the topic. He is now speaking down about the ultimate team accomplishment of the sport. How can he expect the players and the fans to trust and respect him moving forward?
Shots fired!!
Fans should take Fire Manfred banners to the ballgames. Don’t let up until he’s fired or resigns. Fire Manfred chants would be great too. #firemanfred
Looks too much like “Fireman Fred”. May want to rethink.
I think people can tell the difference between Fire Manfred and Fireman Fred.
Someone ought to ask Fireman Fred his opinion on the matter.
I didn’t make the hashtag up look it up on twitter. You can read into it what you want. We all know here it’s about firing Manfred.
‘Cheating’ or getting around the rules has been around for a LONG time in baseball. Gaylord Perry admitted to using a spitball, long after it was banned. We know the Bobby Thompson ‘Shot heard round the world’ the Giants had a guy in center field stealing Dodger’s signals.
I think Manfred would have to bring all the cheating in baseball to the forefront where I think his goal was to tap down on the electronic cheating. Since the Astros scandal broke we know that the Red Sox were using Apple watches against the Yankees in 2018. Now it has come out that they got that Chris Young brought that to them when he left the Yankees and that both the Red Sox and Yankees were using the Apple watches against each other. When Beltran joined the Astros he told them they needed to update their methods as they were outdated.
I honestly believe that this has been rampant but Manfred wanted to get the electronics out.
Mike Trout and Justin Turner may have just had their ‘Rafael Palmeiro’ moments.
Spitballs aren’t inherently unhittable though, but knowing you’re going to get a kill zone middle in fastball, when that’s your bread & butter is definitively cheating.
To me, this seems like a bunch of rotten apples like Beltran and Cora bringing back old school cheating to a game that mostly was relying on tech to gain advantages but here’s the problem again – gaining advantages aren’t always cheating. Knowing what pitch is coming is cheating no matter how you slice it. What the Astros did is definitely cheating, PEDs and putting guys in CF to try and relay signs are just attempt to get an advantage, not knowing whats coming next.
this is the best take. it’s akin to knowing the play the other team is calling football.
Goose
The RS accused the Yankees of stealing signs. The Yankees were investigated and the allegations found to have “no merit.” The Yankees were not found to have stolen signs. They were fined for having a phone. No cameras. No stolen signs. The Chris Young and Carlos Beltran accusations are wild speculation without substance or evidence, spread mostly by Astros fans trying to deflect attention from their own team. You are spreading baseless rumors based on specious logic.
Ok so the MLB investigation into the Astros was inadequate because of “buzzergate” but you’re allowed to lean on their investigation of the Yankees as the 100% end-all? Stupid hypocritical defense. Just drop it dude.
Because the Yankees were found to not have cheated and the Astros were found, definitively, to have cheated.
Again, we trust that why?
Two investigations.
The same investigations that you *don’t* trust now? Either you do or you don’t dude. You’re still the guy that thinks Altuve needed a buzzer and no one caught it.
Mo, you were one spreading accusations before and after the Astros report came out on stuff that’s not true. To say the Beltran/Young thing is “baseless” is just none headed on your part. Those allegations were confirmed by multiple sources. Why would you say Astros fans are the reason that’s spreading? It’s literally what happened. But does it go to much against your narrative?
Show the evidence, JDGoat. Show the evidence.
I didn’t say a word about anything but what the evidence coming out showed. And it turned out to be true.
Past cheaters don’t justify current cheaters
You sound like a politician
Show some evidence on any of your claims Goose, you’re making so many that I’ve never heard before and acting like they’re common knowledge that I’m guessing you’re completely full of crap
Anybody who knows their baseball history would know about the things Goose is referring to.
The players really are going to go on strike until Manfred is gone, aren’t they?
Most commissioners are without a backbone, not surprised.
No matter how it was handled Manfred was not going to get it right. My uninformed opinion is that he 1) let’s get the info into the light and best way is to grant immunity 2) fearful of doing anything to fire up the MLB Player’s Association. So, the long game is he unearthed some truths at what most of us would agree upon as inadequate punishment. Not sure he anticipated such global ire, but when no one is punished and the perps are allowed to prosper, he should not be surprised. If you want a real laugh check out Astros social media and their responses. If these Astros clowns were truly contrite they’d donate their WS winnings to charity.
Manfred is not exactly Landis. He’s milk-toast in comparison.
Is this any less a stab in heart of baseball, as the Black Sox Scandal 100 years ago?.
I don’t think so. Manfred completely washes out the “integrity in baseball” factor.
He’s out of touch with fans and even the players.
Pete Rose – BUSTED,.. but no Astro’s?
Oh, now the MLB World Championship Trophy is only a hunk of metal!
How dare you!
The owners need to grow some knads and rid themselves of this dark room roach.
It’s all for the money though. Watch attendance creep slowly more downward.
When it gets low enough, you can look for Manfred hidden in the curbs broken crease, like the bug he is.
This is MLB 21st Century so far.
No Integrity.
Well said. Players should be severely disciplined.
Pete Rose is a pedophile. Stop bringing him up.
Stop! Please.
Are people on here really too young to comprehend thy Pete Rose is not a victim nor was he punished severe. He AGREED to his lifetime ban, it’s allot different than the false narrative people keep using to put him in the victim box. Rose knew you don’t gamble on baseball as laid out because of the 1919 Black Sox scandal. And the Astros knew you couldn’t use technology to steal signs. But yes I totally agree that Manfred dropped the ball on this and the players should have been punished, it’s sickening they can freely admit to it without punishment and Manfred says he is a man of precedence yet he can’t use the 1919 Black Sox as his precedence to ban players for cheating a World Series?
Yeah Landis was a really great guy. He kept black players out of baseball throughout his tenure. He also gave Cobb and Speaker a slap on the wrist for their gambling involvement, so as to keep baseball free from scandal. The 1919 Sox were just the tip of the iceberg and an example was made of them. Several previous Series had been rumored to have been fixed, and games were often thrown throughout the teens.
Kick them out of the MLBPA!
I suggest that people read the overlooked piece in the players tribune written by Trevor Bauer. Seems very likely that their pitchers were cheating as well.
Jiu jitsu, not jujutsu.
You just need to search… “Jujutsu, the standard spelling, is derived using the Hepburn romanization system. Before the first half of the 20th century, however, jiu-Jitsu and ju-jitsu were preferred, even though the romanization of the second kanji as Jitsu is unfaithful to the standard Japanese pronunciation.”
I’m glad players are getting involved and speaking up against the cheating. Really happy Trout spoke up and concentrating on the players getting off.
Astros, RedSox,Manfred=trash.
You were the one who tried to slip in a threat to Dusty Baker in that other thread right? And you want to talk about trash?
You do know that the Indians stole signs for years at the Mistake by the Lake with a camera in the Chief Wahoo sign out in the outfield, right? And they still sucked. Cheaters!!!
Impeach the comish!
In the ’70s and ’80s the Yankees and MLB were frequently at odds over an “Eye In The Sky” – an innovation by the late George Steinbrenner in which a Yankee employee (beginning, I believe, with Gene Michael, and lasting so long that the last one may have been Buck Showalter) worked from the press box level and was in communication with the dugout during games, relaying goodness knows what.
The Astros are only the latest in a long history of dishonesty. In the past, MLB waved their hands in the air and did nothing. Now it became so distasteful that they had to act. But like Congress, they are not able to do what needs to be done, which is to remove the wrongdoers. And so the players play.
Where’s your evidence, wayhazy? Just more baseless RS conspiracy theory from you. Why don’t you write a lame poem about it. You heard Ortiz failed a PED test and got cited in the Mitchell Report? And about that non-human age-40 season he had… fat, 40, and with the worst feet in baseball, feet so bad he was in deep pain every day, feet so bad they drove him to retire, yet the dude somehow manages to outrun all the young bucks in baseball at DOUBLES. Doubles take speed and cardio, which a fat 40-year old with horrendous feet can’t have without PEDs. He also led in RBI’s, SLG and OPS, all of which take a firm foundation on good feet. Big PEDi.
why don’t you write a lame article about Papi?
have some intellectual honesty, dude. He couldn’t have that year without PEDs. Not fat, 40 and with horrendous feet. No way. Be honest.
Whyhayzee, most people on here are lacking in their knowledge of baseball history. Many teams have used technology to steal signs going back at least 75 years. So don’t expect them to know what you’re talking about, they’ll just cry conspiracy.
Astros waiting not-so-patiently for the Red Sox investigation to conclude/explode.
“At this point, the only thing devaluing that trophy is that it says ’Commissioner’ on it”
Love that Turner didn’t hold back
I love how Correa’s response was “it doesn’t work like that” when he was responding to Bellinger saying that other players “lost respect” for the Astros players. Hey Correa, that’s exactly how it works. You are an overpaid moron!!
Good for them.
Shame Manfred until he makes the * official.
Justin Turner just became my favorite player.
Wish the Astros were coming into Dodger Stadium this year so we could truly give them the “welcome” they deserve … might have to go down to Angel Stadium to show my appreciation.
ASG
Well they screwed the NYY in ’17 to get to the Dodgers and they have home and home series this year. And NYY with Cole. And in ’19, there’s no way Altuve is sitting on a breaking ball from Chapman without knowing something. And don’t tear off my shirt…..
*No* way? At all? So he didn’t just strike out Reddick with breaking balls and walk Springer with fastballs? And he didn’t just get through throwing the slider the most he’s done in his career? And no hitter ever sat on a pitch before?
Nah yeah totally cheating is how you hit home runs in 2019. Gotcha.
If it’s so easy to hit a HR off Chapman why was that the first one an Astro had ever hit?
THIS. ^^
Let’s say we believe Correa about Altuve not cheating. He still benefited from the guys who hit in front of him who were cheating and were on base when he hit.
You get pitched to differently when guys are on base and the defense is shifted differently.
yes this has been acknowledged by the objective conscience
He and Selig together have both saved and destroyed the game is the last 15 years. Instant replay is a joke. I watch baseball because I love it, but it’s getting harder.
Manfred was to me one of the better commissioners out there. I totally lost respect for him and his position. He seemed to cow to the players and the union and take it all out on the managers and GM,
The team has a fine which is mostly a tax write off. But the owner got off easy. I think Hinch should be for ever which is hard because he seems like a good manager and guy. You just can’t turn your back to this and say he destroyed the monitor twice. Have some balls and tell them to stop.
The GM should be gone forever too. He should have told Hinch to make them stop. As for the players there are some I really like one is Altuve but he should get suspended for how long not sure maybe a year?
I just don’t know what is fair. Would have to bounce it off some people. Maybe he could send emails to 100 season ticket holders before the punishment was handed out and give them some scenarios without names and see what they say.
Like I said it is hard for the players. The others involved should get the same. That whole trotting out of guys saying this guy had nothing to do with it. On and on. I got bored with cheater after cheater sticking up for each other. That whole fiasco made it worse.
I am also torn on the trophy. It is also a fan trophy and I would hate to see the fans denied it because the team cheated to win it. Maybe an asterisk by it again nut sure. The Manager and GM are easy the rest not.
You did fans of other teams a disservice by being so lenient Mr Manfred. The game and your position are better than that.
That didn’t seem as long when I wrote it. Maybe it was something I was holding in and out just came out. Sorry it is so long.
I agree with trout.. the punishment wasn’t good enough. The got out basically with no punishment … their fine, was negated by the firing of the suspended coach and GM… net neutral …
This story is probably going to be the most notoriety Trout gets in his career. Glad he crawled out from under his 400 million dollar rock for once.
He stays out of trouble, doesn’t like the media or social media probably because they take what you say and twist your words, he makes 400 mill, will be in the HOF 1st ballot, and go down as one of the greatest players ever. Greatest player of this generation.
I’m sure he’s fine staying out of the spotlight. Doubt he loses much sleep.over it.
You’re right. But the greatest player in baseball is also one of the biggest problems in baseball. You have the modern day Babe Ruth choosing to play for a loser franchise and also doing nothing to promote the game. 20 years ago, EVERYONE knew who Ken Griffey was, whether they were a huge baseball fan or not. Now the NBA has bench players that are more well known than Trout is. He’s like Patrick Mahomes choosing to play for the Jacksonville Jaguars
In 1921, eight Chicago White Sox players were suspended from baseball for cheating in the 1919 World Series. Six were guilty of it, two players were not. One player who was not guilty of cheating was Buck Weaver. His crime was that he knew teammates were cheating and didn’t do anything about it. Buck Weaver fought until the day he died to clear his name, in that 1919 World Series, in 34 at-bats, he had 11 hits, batting .327 and no errors. His niece passed away a year ago trying to still fight the suspension. Now, if Buck Weaver was suspended for simply knowing cheating was going on, a standard was set, if a player is aware of the cheating, they need to talk or they face a lifetime suspension. That means the Astros players who knew cheating was going on in the World Series, the exact same thing Buck Weaver is guilty of, should all face the same punishment, a lifetime ban. You cannot hold one group of players to one standard and another group to another standard. If MLB allows these Astro players to get away with cheating, then all who have been suspended for such crimes should be unsuspended, everyone from Hal Chase to Pete Rose because you cannot have such a double standard in effect. At the very least, Buck Weaver and Joe Jackson need to be reinstated immediately as neither cheated. I also believe Rob Manfred should resign. He has been commissioner for four years and in that time, we know the Astros players cheated in 2017 and there are questions about the 2018 Red Sox and 2019 Astros, how can we as fans trust Rob Manfred with the integrity of the game when it’s out of control and he refuses to punish cheaters and hold them up to the same standards as past cheaters. The Astros should lose the 2017 title as well, not give it to the Dodgers, had the Yankees played them for it, we don’t know what would have happened, but leave it as no winner that season. Baseball is a mess right now. There needs to be a commissioner that can handle this mess and clean up the game, not one that allows this to happen on his watch. All these players have the right to be upset, the Astros are getting away with a huge scandal.
Yeah but their cheating revolved around illegal gambling as well, you make a point but it’s not good enough. I do think the players deserve some sort of punishment instead of having to live with it which is just a load of crap. They live with getting caught cheating that’s nothing they still have a World Series title. I hope bregman, altuve, Correa, Yuli and whoever else sees quite a few fastballs to the back. Don’t hit them where they will get hurt but definitely throw at them. I bet the Astros are involved in a lot of on the field scuffles this season and those pitchers that threw at them shouldn’t receive nothing but a standard one game suspension if that. If they get suspended and or fined an outrageous sum I bet there will be chaos amongst the players. Players police themselves and the Astros players have it coming this year.
Yeah, they were dirtbags, but they were literally cheating to LOSE, not to win. They were cheating the gamblers and since gambling was involved, that led to the lifetime ban. I do agree with WAH though, your point still has validity. Manfred had a chance to set a precedent to make sure this never happens again and he wet himself. I personally don’t even think a lifetime ban was necessary, but a 1 year ban and vacating the 2017 ship would have sent a strong message and been satisfactory to MLB fans (meatball Houston homers excluded)
I think Manfred was afraid of the players union and might be a bit shocked to see all these players speaking out against the Houston players. That tells me that the union wouldn’t have fought stiffer penalties.
At the end of the day, from all the social media outlets, polls, etc… no one outside of Houston recognizes or respects that 2017 championship. Their franchise will live with that stink forever… like the Black Sox.
@bryzzo_2016 Cheating to lose was cheating to win for them. Cheating is cheating, doesn’t matter what for or how, if you cheat, you need top pay consequences. Buck Weaver did not cheat, he was suspended solely for knowing people were cheating and didn’t stop it. How many Astros did the exact same thing? How many actually participated? Those who knew are guilty of the exact same crime as Buck Weaver and those who did cheat, regardless of what they were trying to accomplish, they cheated and they should be held to the same standards as any cheater and face a ban. If they want to take lifetime bans away from others to balance things, then do that, but you can’t have two separate standards. As for Manfred, he needs to go. He is losing control, players and fans hate him, this is all on him.
Again, I don’t disagree. Cheating is cheating. I was merely explaining the basis of the lifetime ban and that was largely due to the gambling aspect of the act(s). Again, that franchise is forever stained with the Black Sox just as the Houston franchise will be forever stained. Time has proven this. It’s been 100 years since the Black Sox scandal and everyone is still familiar with it as if it happened last year even though in their garbage… they actually lost. People still remember, so people… generations will always put an asterisk next to the Houston “championship”.
@WAH1447 But my point is made solely on Buck Weaver who solely knew cheating happened and did not participate whereas Astros players participated in cheating, which is worse than what Buck Weaver did, and others knew and said nothing, which is exactly what Buck Weaver did. Just because the others involved gambling, in the end, it’s all cheating and all must be punished or there is no integrity.
This is so well written. Wonderful post.
Justin Turner up of heat! Last quote was the best burn on Manfred yet.
And THIS is why Justin is the leader on one of the best teams in baseball
He’s not a loud guy, but damn are his words meaningful
Love me some JT truths
Rob manfred sucks I think a lot of us can agree on that. I wish the owners would hold a vote to get rid of him. He sucks he really just sucks. I think a large portion of the baseball community will agree he is the worst we have seen.
Manfred has no defense. He botched this from the moment he sent the memo to the GMs and not to EVERY player. He then gave the Asstros players immunity because he screwed the pooch with his memo to GMs. Since he gave them immunity there is no punishment for the cheaters, and that is not sitting well with anyone not on the Asstros. His only option for punishment now is to strip the title, which he lacks the cojones to do.
Incompetent, out of touch, weak….. a combination rarely seen outside of politics
Yankees still have all their titles from when they were juiced to the gills lol are you really trying to take the high ground?
Next team that wins the trophy should be celebrating by prying off the commissioner name plate and signifiers of the Astros and Red Sox wins.
As all can see from the reactions on this board (and other sources), this has become the kind of situation that requires a sacrificial lamb.
Manfred may be bleating soon……it fits, and MLB MIGHT be able to save some face…..
And then ownership can go right out and hire another mouthpiece who talks the ownership party line. Will we be having fun yet?
Oh of course that’s exactly what will happen. But the owners would have “shown their concern”, show the blood on the sidewalk, and maybe curry some favor with the Union in advance of the negotiations.
It almost makes too much sense.
The union won’t be fooled and I hope the fans wouldn’t be either. Unfortunately from what I read here virtually all the fans are fooled by the ownership jive.
Asstros are pathetic. Now you’re saying Mike Trout’s a cheater? First you accuse NYY and LA cheated their way and they’re not being investigated because they’re big market team. Once you got the penalty (which was a pinch to your wrist), you started getting mad at other lower market teams like A’s and KCR they cheated too without any evidence nor proof. When players like Bellinger, Clevenger, Bauer and all these guys criticized, you still bladder your mouth saying they all took HGH and cheated their way. Now you’re accusing Mike Trout.
Is that what you want us to think about Astros and their fan base? A bunch of cheater protecting org. who has nothing else to do, but blame others and not admit? Saying Mike Trout cheated, Bellinger cheated, All big market teams, Astros just got caught because they’re lower market team. A’s does it, Twins, Indians does it why us? You’re equivalent to Bell Belichick, the Pats and Tom Brady minus the GOAT status. You’re the most hated fans and most hated baseball org right now. Why can’t you admit? Why are you in denial like Ted Cruz in 2016?
I want to know, do you teach your kids like this? Tell them it’s ok to cheat cause others are cheating too and blame others if you get caught? That’s the Houston way to grow kids? Are you making these bold, idiotic, moronic statements cause you cheat in life too?
Dodgers cheated and won 1988 World Series. I don’t hear anyone in their organization offering to give that trophy back. Jay Howell ejected for scuffing baseball. Think he was the only one? Probably not. Cheating is cheating, MLB culture has accepted and looked the other way for a century. Some people see Astros case as egregious but it’s not any more damaging than countless other scenarios. PED usage was openly condoned and was far more impactful on results over 30+ years. So fans should turn their anger towards MLB leadership (owners and players union) who collectively mismanaged the game for most of the past 100 years.
weak argument.. misapplication of acceptable norm boundaries and blatant rule breaking. read a sociology book and you’ll understand that the basic fabric of society apply to every sub culture as well. cheating is not cheating. just like death is not death, there’s suicide, manslaughter, murder, etc. There are degrees and what the Astros did was a clear violation of unwritten and written mores and rules of the game of baseball.
SOOO weak! Bless your heart for even comparing the two.
Agreed, VERY weak argument. It’s not even apples and oranges… more like apples and spark plugs…. or buzzers.
No, it’s actually a very pertinent comparison.
Not a weak argument at all, very valid points.
Whoa ! Pulled that foolishness right out of your nether region, ‘ey trigato.
Could you give me a source? A legitimate source that 1988 WS Dodgers cheated? Please I want to read it.
Manfrednis a joke. The beat commissioner, by far, is the NBA’s Silver. Other sports bosses could learn a thing or two from him and the precious guy, David Stern.
Stern was like a Chicago gangster. That guy was so crooked he couldn’t walk straight. Manfred is not even close. Incompetent probably but doesn’t seem to be a thief.
ALEX CORA SHOULD BE BANNED FOR LIFE FROM BASEBALL.
If Pete Rose will always be, Cora, being the “brains” of this operation, with both the Astros and Red Sox, should NEVER be able to get a job in the game again.
Pete Rose is a pedophile. Stop bringing him up
Rob Manfred is a criminal. I bet he took some money from Crane under the table to keep this quieter than it needed to be. He needs to be removed from his post and out in jail. I hope more players keep challenging him. What a joke he is. He makes Selig look like Ghandi. He is garbage. Juat a crony goon friend to the crooked owners of baseball.
while there is no evidence for what you are suggesting, it is nonetheless within the realm of possibility that someone will go to jail for this when it’s all said and done…
most likely scenario is that someone in MLB withholds or destroys documentation from its investigation that incriminates other clubs. We’re already seeing lawsuits getting filed so it’s important for MLB and the 30 clubs to keep and retain their records re: sign stealing.
I would hope no one in Manfred’s office would attempt to destroy evidence, but one never knows.
Manfred, “Hey you know that trophy thing that every athlete works to win as the ultimate goal, ya, that thing doesn’t matter; that wouldn’t be a sufficient punishment.”
Mmm, what now?
Everyone needs to stop bringing up Pete Rose. Dude is a pedophile. He deserves the chair, not the hof. Stop defending him like hes a god. He ****s underage kids. Disgusting.
How many times are you gonna repeat this, dude? Give it up.
How many times will you insist the Astros are justified to cheat in the worst way possible in the last 100 years?
Enough of the ethical/moral relativism BS. But the Black Sox, but Pete Rose, but the steroids, but everyone else may have been doing it, but, but, but… Do all the mental gymnastics you want, Houston fans, your team straight up cheated and the best players in the game are on record that what that team achieved is now trash. Nothing else is going to happen. No suspensions, no taking back player shares, no asterisk, no taking back MVP’s or trophies. MLB won’t do that. Now you get to wear it, though. Like, forever. All the best.
I used to run the bases like Juan Pierre
There is no one who is a bigger Nolan Ryan fan than me for the OC. I became an Astro fan when he signed with them. I have always hated the Dodgers and now there in no team in sports I hate more than the Astros.
Question if Ryan were still part of the front office does this happen? I say no and he heads down to the locker room and puts Beltran and a few more in headlocks and KICKs some A$$.
Astro fan you need to take the hit and stop defending your cheaters. Take ownership.
Hey man where’s all the cauliflower
I thought I remember you going off on the Red Sox (as a RS fan) when it came out that they were going to be investigated. An Astros fan with intellectual honesty is going off about the Astros… You should be applauding him for his honesty. I had faith in you…
Yeah not a big fan of the them -RS. Use to be Dodgers and Red Sox on top as teams I would root against, but what is happening in HSN has me going. They have rocketed to the top. Just hope Ryan had no knowledge . Named my son after him. Was his paper boy as a kid ( Anaheim in the early 70’s) and he was rock solid as an idol. The only one I ever have had. Don’t think he would have allowed to happen if he was around the team.
There is no one who is a bigger Nolan Ryan fan than me from the OC. I became an Astro fan when he signed with them. I have always hated the Dodgers and now there is no team in sports I hate more than the Astros.
Question if Ryan were still part of the front office does this happen? I say no and he heads down to the locker room and puts Beltran and a few more in headlocks and KICKs some A$$.
Astro fan you need to take the hit and stop defending your cheaters. Take ownership.
Ryan was part of the FO in 2017 so, I mean, either the lower management hid it or his mystique just got ruined for you lol
Interesting that he stepped down as advisor last November and his son has transferred and replaced with the owner’s son. I wonder now if Ryan knew anything? This would be an interesting article for a beat writer.
I agree whoever could get the real reason for it would get paid, lol, especially because that was around the time of the Taubman thing. Might have been related to PR for that.
Dayuuummm… The Astros pissed off Mike Trout. No way he doesn’t win another MVP now.
These players nailed it about Manfred … I’m to believe the he wouldn’t have banned Pete Rose for life
They should have stripped them of their championship and suspended every player for a year and life if they can show they used a buzzer. Obviously they should be banned from the HOF as well… at least as long as they keep players like Bonds and Clemens our.
Manfred was an idiot.
He should of suspended the players.
Now, baseball players will go vigilante and enact their own version of justice to get back at the cheaters.
Not suspending them guaranteed players are gonna get balls thrown at their ribs or thighs to send a message a lot this year.
Imagine the turmoil manfreds gonna deal with when he suspends players for throwing at cheaters but cheaters aren’t suspended.
He might as well resign now and hope his heir cleans up his mess.
In Manfred’s defense, we don’t know what he aimed for and what the MLBPA allowed. The MLBPA is much stronger than the NFLPA.
How many suspensions has the MLBPA overturned for confirmed cheaters? Zero
It’s a cope out. He was afraid to try
The MLBPA can’t overturn suspensions. Or anything else. All they can do is file a grievance. Are you familiar with the CBA and how labor unions work?
Woah, those two really went out on a limb! Brave! (Cue the “Mike Trout is God” folks who believe their guy is above reproach.)
In this era of outrage, not surprised people cannot get past it. Not an Astros fan, btw.
There is no guarantee either the Dodgers or Yankees would have taken title, or that Astros would have lost. Knowing the pitch is a huge advantage, and the entire episode is an embarrassment. Still…you have to succeed w a hit, home run, etc. There is no guarantee knowing the pitch = a big hit. Yes, it helps obviously, but is no guarantee.
(Cue all the folks on here freaking out, calling me names, and losing their minds.)
You are correct in that there’s no guarantee. The results are irrelevant. The Astros cheated and that fact is undisputed. The title is unearned.
Watch the final out of the 2017 series. What you are witnessing is the celebration of a theft, not a victory.
The only way for this to end is for the Astros to do what they can’t: act like a classy organization. If they donated their playoff shares to charity we would all be okay with movin on.
Wow. Only way Manfried can save himself at this point is to reinstate Pete Rose
Every WS won by a steroid user should also be stripped. Out with the cheaters.
Fire Manfred
There hasn”t been an MLB game in 2020 yet, but I can already hear the boos loud and clear and maybe even some garbage bins clanging when the Astros play in every away park. You reap what you sow.