Some items from around the NL East…
- The Phillies have promised their full-time employees that “there will be no furloughs or layoffs due to the coronavirus crisis through the end of our fiscal year (October 31, 2020),” managing partner John Middleton wrote in a letter to staff. (NBC Sports Philadelphia’s Jim Salisbury reported on the letter’s contents.) Most teams in baseball have already committed to retaining their employees at least through the end of May, with the Padres, Rockies, and Tigers also taking steps to keep jobs intact beyond May 31. As per Middleton’s letter, Phillies full-time employees could potentially still face “possible salary reductions,” in the fact of the organization’s revenue loss, staffers “can be assured of your job and health insurance for the next five-plus months.”
- Barry Bonds in a Braves uniform? Atlanta’s failed attempt to land the superstar prior to the 1992 season has long been the subject of regret for Braves fans, though as The Athletic’s David O’Brien notes, some of the long-held beliefs about the trade may be inaccurate. For instance, former Braves GM John Schuerholz wrote in his book “Built To Win” that then-Pirates manager Jim Leyland strongly protested the idea of trading Bonds, which led Pittsburgh to back out of the deal. However, Leyland tells O’Brien that he “would have never had the authority to nix a trade. That would have never happened.” Needless to say, the concept of Bonds being added to the 1992 Braves (a team that lost the World Series to the Blue Jays in six games) is a fascinating one, not to mention the wider-ranging impact on baseball history if Bonds had re-signed with Atlanta rather than join the Giants in free agency during the 1992-93 offseason.
- It has been over two and a half years since the shocking international signing scandal that resulted in then-Braves GM John Coppolella being permanently banned from baseball, and John Hart leaving his post as club president. As for the 13 international prospects who became free agents after the Braves lost their rights, Gabriel Burns of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution catches up with how the players are developing in their new organizations. None have yet reached the big leagues, and only four of the 13 are ranked as top-30 prospects (as per MLB Pipeline) within their new farm systems. This isn’t to say that Atlanta emerged unscathed from the scandal, of course, as the club has since been hugely limited in the international market, and they also missed out a 14th prospect in shortstop Robert Puason, who went on to sign with the A’s and is “by far the highest regarded player of this group,” Burns writes. The Braves were prohibited from signing Puason after the league’s investigation into their international signing improprieties revealed that the club had arranged to sign Puason before he was eligible. MLB Pipeline rates the 17-year-old Puason as the fourth-best prospect in Oakland’s farm system.
I wonder who ATL would have given up on a trade. And I wonder how his time would have effected his future presumed PED use, assuming he hadn’t be using in PIT, and his connection with Bay-area BALCO from his time with the Giants.
braves had users, too!
I don’t doubt that, but I was talking about Bonds and his known connection to his long-time supplier and its location. Of course, he could find it almost anywhere, I’m just wondering what would be different, if anything.
The difference woulda been Bonds juicing for the same reasons he did it SF but breaking * the all time home run record in the home of the REAL Home Run King, Hank Aaron. Woulda been an even bigger slap in the face to Hank seeing Bonds do it in a Braves uniform
His name was Robert Pauson.
The Bonds money ended up being used to get Maddux, so it worked out just fine.
An outfield of Bonds and David Justice flanking Otis Nixon for most of the 90’s would’ve been awesome to watch though. Especially considering Glavine, Smoltz and Millwood would’ve still been in the rotation.
And it only would have cost them two prospects. Chipper Jones and maybe Javy Lopez. You don’t get a player like Bonds for nothing.
The Braves felt they could get both Maddux and Bonds. Ted Turner was hellbent on winning. Whether it would’ve shaken out that way is anyone’s guess.
The interesting dynamic would’ve been how the Braves and their fanbase would’ve viewed Bonds’ home run record had he won some MVP’s and/or a few more World Series with Atlanta.
After the trade between Atlanta and Pittsburg was nixed, the Braves pivoted to Maddux. They weren’t going after both.
According to DOB’s article (linked in the post), the Braves felt Ted Turner would pay both due to Atlanta coming up short in back-to-back World Series in 1991 and 1992.
Why would anyone care about juicing? I could not possibly care less if they all juiced. I’ve been too far many games that featured the subs when the premier player was riding the pine due to injury or on the DL (now the IL) . People are under all types of “chemical influences” while working or DRIVING. That’s IS the bigger problem.
but Middleton is still cheap, right Phillies haters?
Amen. John Middleton…ONE CLASS ACT
I am a Phillies supporter. I never saw Midddleton as cheap. Those that claim he’s cheap only pick up a cheque to hand to the payer.
im always a bit skiddish on getting too excited over these international amateurs, (namedly the ones with no experience in actual leagues such as Mexico or the Serie) but missing Puason might be the biggest blow of them all. (though as a Phillies fan i still quite like Abrahan Gutierrez)
So you expect them prior to 16yrsbold to play in “actual leagues”?
no, i dont, and that’s why id prefer to take a risk on a Robert-type instead.
I don’t think he’ll be a superstar or anything but it seems like the Pirates got a potential 1980’s style throwback true leadoff hitter with a solid glove in Ji Hwan Bae.
Yeah I like Bae too, though Puason still has higher upside id say (even if id rather take the player with the strong pro experience first)
Yeah,because who is Gleybor Torres. And Andujar.
I guess I get “skiddish” as well.
I guess if i could see the future i wouldnt be skiddish of those guys (even though one of them basically cant play the field).
i would get skiddish of Obispo Aybar-Lara, Micker Adolfo Zapata, Mayky Perez, but of course you know who they are.
my point is international market is a crapshoot. for every Robert or Wander there is a Baldoquin or Maitan. lots of talent comes out if that market but little eventually develops. my point is its dangerous to get too excited about some of these guys, especially the big ticket guys, as many flop.
Braves fans can believe that had the Braves been treated fairly as Boston snd the Yankees had been when guilty of the same infractions, the development of the lost prodpects (fifty by now) would have put at least five in the MLB top 100. Kevin Maitan for example would be eeuivalent to Acuna. Also the Braves would not have had to waste last year’s number nine on Langeliers.
I wouldn’t say that picking Langeliers at #9 is a “wasted” pick.
The jury is still out on Maitan, most people are already calling him a bust, in fact they were calling him that the short time he was with the Braves. I won’t go that far, he’s still young enough that he can regain some of his lost stock. But I don’t think he will be on par with Acuña, or would have been, had he stayed with the Braves.
langiers ain’t gonna go nowhere
Maitan is absolutely a bust. Braves fans should be happy he’s out of sight and out of mind.
Maitan is only 19, there’s time to turn it around… although his A-ball stat line is absolutely brutal. Clock is ticking
I think they were referring to having enough catching depth with the additional prospects to not have to draft a catcher so high at #9 overall. Langeliers does have top-level defense and above-average offensive potential, so who know if he were available they’d still go after him.
Supposedly they were going to give up Alejandro Pena, Keith Mitchell & a PTBNL for Bonds.
I always had doubts as to how close that deal was to really happening. And it was known that Bonds wanted to go to San Fransisco with all the family history so there really wasn’t a what if factor to imagine.
I never truly believed that deal was that close to being done like JS has said.
I don’t doubt JS believed the deal was almost done. What’s reality though? Who knows?
I’d have loved to see Bonds in a Braves uniform. I believe they’d have won a few more WS early on because he’d have been that feared bat they sometimes lacked, and often chased.
Their window would’ve shut sooner though probably. As you said, Bonds wanted to be in SF. He would’ve found his way there somehow. Do the Braves still get Maddux if they got Bonds then? I don’t know. Lots of interesting things to ponder.
The A’s full SS depth chart right now is:
Semien, Pinder, Barreto, Mateo, Neuse, Allen, Machin, Davidson, Eierman, Puason, Campos
Easily the best in MLB.
What was the SS’s name we lost because of the Coppy scandal? He signed with Angel’s i think…How is he developing b/c he was the only prospect I thought we were really gonna miss?…
Robert Puason Hes currently #6 A’s prospect. But he’s got a long way to go. I’d rather have Swanson
i think he means Maitan
Maitan. and he’s been garbage since. you arent missing anything.
They may also be referring to Livan Soto, also signed with the Angels.
Maitan, that was it thx…I heard he immediately signed with the Angel’s and then never heard a single blurb about him since
Kevin Maitan
The real pain has been felt in subsequent international signing periods. Braves still have a top 10 farm system, but it goes down a little every time a player graduates to the big leagues, or is traded, without much coming back into the system. The Acuña and Albies deals make up for it a lot in terms of extending the competitive window, though.
Agreed, Gabe. When you look at the players they had to forfeit, the blow wasn’t crippling. The tough part is they’ve basically had to sit on the IFA sidelines awhile, diminishing their system. Plus who know who they could’ve found during that time?
Interesting “what if” about Bonds. Him moving to Atlanta instead of the Giants would have had serious repercussions…
Would the Giants have resigned Will Clark?
Would the Giants have gone after another free agent splash like Greg Maddux to establish the new ownership?
Would the Giants have gotten the momentum to build their new ballpark without Bonds as their marquee player?
Would Atlanta have won a couple more World Series titles – especially in 1993? Or would they have not signed Maddux and miss that valuable ace that helped propel them to such success?
I have doubts the Giants would be anywhere near where they are today as a top 5 MLB team if it weren’t for Bonds.
Giants fan since BOBBYBonds showed up in 68. I had hoped he’d be the next Mays but that didn’t happen. So when I say you’re dead right pek know that I’ve followed this team religiously. For 52 years.
Will Clark started the renewed popularity of the Giants but Barry bonds took it to new extremes.
Sorry, Jek not pek.
If Bonds had been a Brave in 1992, maybe the Pirates would have had someone with a decent arm in LF to throw out a wonky kneed Sid Bream.
Would a different LF have allowed Chico Lind to field grounders? Would a different LF have inspired Stan Belinda to throw strikes?
Lind was a very good fielder… edit: I was thinking of a different guy. Never mind.
No, but a different LF might not have air mailed the throw, Bream gets tagged out and, who knows, maybe that LF could actually hit in the post season?
FWIW, Belinda did throw strikes. Randy Marsh (before he became a geologist) squeezed him.
Forwhom, with pirates, bonds wasn’t great in post season. A little different with giants though. Overall very good postseason numbers.
And a different LF would have listened to his CF instead of shooting him the bird when told to slide up a couple of steps. Bonds was too elite to listen to a teammate.
You are right about Belinda though. As a Braves fan I will admit some of the calls for him were ridiculous. I cannot remember if it had been that way the whole game or not, but he had it bad.
A really stupid take,
Btw, bonds basically likely didn’t seek “help” until he witnessed 2nd fiddles getting notoriety for homeruns. Brady Anderson, Finley, McGwire Sosa and the list goes on. Long before Bonds went nuts. And don’t forget he hit 47 in ‘93.
And they were not near Balco…as far as we know
Interesting point. I’ve never thought of Bonds as the poster child for the steroid era really. Bonds always had talent, even if he later maybe had some help.
Brady Anderson though? Yeahhh… That’s a guy who had to be doing something. To go from a 10ish HR guy with some SB ability to 50 HRs?
It happens. Bert Campeneris hit 22 one year. As much of an outlier Brady’s 5o HR season was, it proves nothing.
Cosmo-You are correct,it proves nothing about Brady Anderson.
Same with Lenny Dykstra.
Same with Jose Bautista.
Same with Sammy Sosa.
I think that all of these guys just became gym rats over one winter and developed Popeye muscles in that time frame.
Or,maybe they really did have some help.
We can only speculate.
What applies to Dykstra doesn’t apply to Anderson. Yes, obviously there was a lot of juicing but that doesn’t prove that anyone with a jump in stats is guilty. That’s not how proof works. I’m not saying steroids weren’t a thing, I’m saying Anderson’s spike in homers is actual evidence of nothing.
Homerun explosion began in 96. Anderson 51 homers in 96. Never more than 20 in a season in rest of career. But you’re right cosmo there is no actual evidence. But you are allowed to theorize since what actual evidence is ther of anything.
Anderson got “help”.
It is known as a statistical outlier,an aberration.
As such there is usually an explanation for it as it is non random.
Just sayin’.
But you are correct,it is not absolute proof.
I wonder if we could find out what the rumored return for Bonds was at the time? They still had sone talent on that team after Bonds left. It could’ve been a good enough return to keep them relevant for a couple more years.
It kinda appears a lot of the guys we signed have turned into bust. If I remember their names right, Matian has brutally struggled after being comp to some great mlb starts, the rest have faded except maybe that thin Soto kid which even he isn’t exactly crushing it. Now missing out on Pauson kinda stinks