The Phillies announced that first baseman Rhys Hoskins underwent a successful Tommy John surgery to repair a torn UCL in his left elbow last week. He’s expected to be sidelined for four to six months.
It’s an unfortunate development for the 27-year-old. Recovery from this procedure isn’t as severe for a position player as it would be for a pitcher, but both player and team were surely hoping he wouldn’t need to go under the knife.
Before going down with the forearm injury that ended his season, Hoskins had a strong year at the plate. He hit .245/.384/.503 over 185 plate appearances, a marked improvement in the on-base and power departments over his 2019 campaign. He’s also in line for a substantial raise, as he’ll go through the arbitration process for the first time this winter. As a middle-of-the-order fixture, Hoskins should remain quite a bargain from a contractual standpoint.
The four-to-six month timetable opens up the possibility Hoskins won’t be available out of the gate next season. It’d take his coming in at the early end of that recovery timetable to have an uninterrupted spring training. As far as recent precedents go, Yankees outfielder Aaron Hicks underwent the same procedure last October and would not have been ready to return until June. Notably, however, Hicks’ procedure was on his throwing arm (Hoskins’ is not) and initially called for a more significant eight-to-ten month recovery timeline.
just great. a 1B needing TJS. what our luck.
On the plus side, they won’t be tempted to toss him in the OF.
That joke is two seasons old. Try again.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
I guess we’re all made of glass
Man that sucks. How is the recovery time like compared to a pitcher needing TJS?
It’s in the article
Americans don’t read beyond the headlines.
Oh my bad, my eyes skipped that part. Sorry boys
Not true! I read the first two paragraphs
The real bad luck is that it happened when colliding with a former teammate.
That 7-game series against the Marlins has to go down as one of the worst in Phillies history. Coming in with a 90% chance at a playoff birth. Losing Hoskins, Realmuto and Spencer Howard to injury. Losing 5 out of 7, despite outscoring the opponent. The bullpen blowing some late-inning leads as per usual. You went from chasing the 1st place Braves, to not even being in the playoffs. Really that 7-game series defined the Phillies entire season.
Ducky Buckin Fent
As a Yankee fan I’m not overly sympathetic in regards to other teams injuries.
I – obviously – don’t want to see them, or whatever.
But the last couple years have jaded me on that particular front.
However, that certainly *is* a lot of missing firepower and talent. Can’t deny that, man.
I don’t think the Phillies are all that far away. Just need some (maybe a lot?) of help in the pen.
I’m sure I’m not telling you guys anything earth shattering here.
Yea. I mean this year especially, everyone was dealing with brutal injuries. So no excuses here. They just couldn’t step up, and quite frankly are not ready to compete with teams like the Braves and Dodgers.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Dodgers are almost on their own tier, man. (of course I think the Yanks can beat ’em though – uh?)
But in the NL I don’t see that much separation after that.
Good bullpens can be built in an off-season. Risky business. Anyone would hate to land a “haul” like the Rockies.
It’s certainly possible, however. I’d give it the full winter to see how everyone looks. Like most here, I think we’re in for a pretty weird off-season.
Yeah, injuries this year were to be expect. Almost like they have spring training for a reason.
This year was the double-whammy of ramping up, then shutting it down and a lot of guys probably thinking it was over… and then having to ramp up again with little to no lead-in.
The NFL seems like they’re dealing with the same thing, no pre-season, no gradual build-up… just WHAMM-O and games that matter (unless you’re the Jets and Giants.)
Ducky Buckin Fent
The Jints, man.
I really need the Yankees to keep playing.
Ya know, I was just thinking how on the surface it’s counterintuitive. Over 100 less games were played yet there were *more* injuries. It really bears out the whole, “marathon not a sprint” cliche & the difference of preparation between the two.
Phillies need starting pitching too. What they’ve got now isn’t nearly enough.
Four straight years without a lefty in the rotation. Roster construction has been abysmal. .
When did hitting .245 become strong?
When it was combined with getting on base a lot combined with hitting for a lot of power.
Let the Rob Deer comparisons start.
Oh, idk…. 384 OBP, 503 SLG maybe?
Never has been a strong performance, it sucks. It is just today’s norm. They just lower the standards each year. Using WAR as a guide hides a lot of flaws in today’s game. Remember, batting .300 doesn’t matter and pitchers’ win totals don’t matter either. Total BS. Next, participation will be all that matters. Everyone will get a trophy and a pay raise just for showing up. Oops, they already get the pay raise, no matter what, so where’s stinkin’ trophies?
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
Up your opening Bham. Your disrespect makes me sick
Your well stated argument against modern baseball analytics has convinced me Jerry. No one has ever explained why we should care about a .300 avg and pitcher wins so well. You have convinced me old man.
The cloud you yelled at.
wild bill tetley
You brought nothing to table except a flip flop of a flameout closer’s name. Thank you for nothing. The modern baseball analytics is cancelled out by the good teams who spend and have hitters who do hit. sorry to burst your ignorant bubble you live in.
The non-take you just made.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
You got me Wild Bill. I did flip flop a closers name. Modern analytics is cancelled out by hitters that can hit is a great take.
Every time this site says a player with a 250 or below avg had a good year someone comes in to mock advanced stats and call the player bad. Maybe mention participation trophies. Then disparage younger generations because the game they knew isn’t the same as when they were younger.
Hitting is more than just average so to say a player is bad because they hit 245 but got on base and hit for power is dumb. That’s why the site uses triple slashes in their articles, also exit velocities and babip. That way people don’t judge the player unfairly based on one stat
But yeah those royals showed baseball analytics nerds whose boss by slugging their way to a World Series. Also the Twins last year proved the point great hitting teams dump on everyone else.
Thanks for bursting my ignorant bubble.
I always find the old man ranting on this subject kind of ironic considering how many players back in the day (especially middle infielders) were absolutely awful hitters.
Batting average without context is absolutley worthless. Both Mike Trout and David Fletcher had nearly identical batting averages and were completley different hitters. Pitcher wins/losses have never mattered. If you want to talk about participation trophies, that’s exactly what pitcher record is. You showed up, and you pitched.
Lol would you trade miguel rojas for trout? Serious question
Guess you named yourself after one of the three stooges for a reason.
For starting pitchers, I will take the guy with the wins. It means they stayed in the game long enough to actually earn the win, and saved the teams bullpen. It means they out pitched their counter part on that particular day. The pitcher with the Ws is likely the pitcher with the 200 innings pitched. You give me 3 starting pitchers who I can project to have 15+ wins, and my team is in the playoff hunt. Verlander, Scherzer, Kershaw are all #1 starters because they win. Mark Buehrle always won, but was under appreciated because his other numbers were solid but unspectacular. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be other opinions. I’m saying this is mine.
Gavin Floyd had 17 wins in 3.84 ERA and 4.77 FIP. Phil Hughes won more than 15 games twice with an ERA above 4. Early in Tim Hudson’s career, he won 20 games with a 4.14 ERA. You’d rather have those three over 3 Jacob deGrom who hasn’t won over a dozen games since 2016, or 2014 Corey Kluber who went 9-14? Wins don’t mean you actually pitched good. It means, for starting pitchers, you pitched five innings and left with the lead. Whether you give up no runs or seven runs in those five innings is not brought up.
On the other hand, you can go seven innings, give up one run, and get the loss because your offense got shutdown. Bringing up Tim Hudson again, in 2014 he went 8.2 innings againt the Pittsburgh Pirates. He gave up one run which happened to be a walk off little league home run because when Starling Marte slid into third base on a Triple in the 9th, the throw was wild and sailed past Sandoval. Marte broke for home, was called out, but after review was safe, so Hudson gets the loss. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have the outing Hudson had that night over a guy going six innings, giving up 4 runs, but getting the win because his offense scored five.
Gavin Floyd had 17 wins in 3.84 ERA and 4.77 FIP
For purposes of a discussion as complex as wins, sample sizes on ‘1’, generally aren’t compelling. Of course there will be one-season aberrations where ERA and W/L don’t correlate.
Having said that, while I would acknowledge that they generally correlate, I absolutely believe that some pitchers rise and fall to the level of their competition.
Larry David's Joe Pepitone Jersey
Batting average and pitcher wins have been used to overvalue players for most of baseball history. The modern approach is course correction.
Imainge complaining saying that they just might as well give out participation trophies now, and then citing pitcher wins and losses. They are the most participation trophy number out there.
A pitcher win is pitching 5 innings and leave the game with the lead
A pitcher loss is leaving the game while your team is behind
Nowhere in those two definitions does it say that you have to pitch good or bad to get a win or loss.
Saves is another dumb stat. Three-run lead, surrendering two runs. That’s a save. I saw Todd Worrell do this quite often when he was a Dodger.
just pointing out another flaw … you dont have to pitch 5 innings to get the win or loss .. if the starting pitcher comes out after 4 and 2/3 and a guy comes in for the last out in the 5th … that 1/3 of an inning got the win. Technically a pitcher could have 100+ wins and not even pitch 40 innings.
That would give him best season ever for a pitcher because…wins. But only if he is gritty, old-school, hard-nosed, and plays the game the right way.
That doesn’t even consider whether or not he is a straight shooter and is a throwback to old school blue collar baseball.
We have all seen such situations. On August 25, the Marlins and Mets played a doubleheader of two seven-inning games. In the first game, Marlins starter Daniel Castano was pulled with a 4-0 lead and two outs in the fifth. Richard Bleier came in to record the third out on one pitch. That would be the only batter Bleier faced and the Marlins wound up winning 4-0. Because Castano didn’t go five full innings, he was ineligible for the win, which was awarded to the guy who threw one pitch. An insult to baseball fans.
Here’s another. On September 4, the Dodgers held a 5-2 lead over the Rockies. Caleb Ferguson entered the game in the eighth inning with two outs and runners on first and second. Ferguson gave up a single and a grand slam before recording the final out. That was the end of Ferguson’s outing, the Dodgers now trail 6-5. In the next half-inning, the Dodgers scored five runs and won, 10-6. Ferguson received credit for the win despite failing miserably. In the same game, Dodgers starter Dustin May surrendered two runs over 5.2 impressive innings. Another insult to baseball fans.
If MLB is going to continue with pitching wins as a stat, it should be an official scorer’s decision with strict guidelines toward giving the W to the most effective pitcher. This would include a starter who perhaps didn’t go five innings.
Don’t forget about the first ever walk off review in history. Tim Hudson pitched 8.2 innings, walked just one batter, and struck out five. The run that mattered he happened to give up was a triple by Starling Marte. An errant throw to third base led to Marte breaking for hme plate, and was thrown out. But after review, he was called safe. The run wasn’t even an earned run since it was an error. Hudson got the L, I guess because he didn’t pitch good enough according to fans of W/L record even though his team’s defense blew it, and Tony Watson who pitched 1 inning and gave up two hits got the win, not Charlie Morton who went eight innings, gave up one run. But you know, that one inning by Watson is way better than the outing Hudson had.
It doesn’t even take analytics to show batting average isn’t that important. Even old school baseball minds understand that a double is worth 2 singles a homer is worth 4 singles, etc. Analytics is just quantifying things scouts and managers have known for years.
Analytics has actually helped in terms of player development. In the old days, teams compensated for .220-hitting middle infielders and catching by bunting in the early innings and other poor strategic decisions. Now, players are being developed so they can actually swing the bat. It’s hard to see the positives for many older fans (of which I am one). Back then, players would harmlessly ground to second after a few pitches. Today, players grind out longer at-bats by fouling off pitches until they get one they like. Even if they ultimately go down on strikes, they have impacted the game by driving up pitch counts. When I was a kid, we never heard about pitch counts and walks being important on the big-league level. These are major points in modern strategy. Can’t score against deGrom? Okay, let’s drive up his pitch count, keep the Mets off the scoreboard, and get into their bullpen. It makes the game more interesting to watch. Folks just have a hard time accepting that because it’s different from what they grew up on.
The guy does good things the way the game’s played now. 30 years ago, with that average and those strikeouts, he’d get sent down to the minors and he’d never be heard from again.
It’s like 3/4ths of the hitters in baseball are Rob Deer now.
30 years ago, with that average and those strikeouts, he’d get sent down
Strikeouts are not a modern phenomenon. Schmidt led the league in Ks and HRs in his first three full seasons. Mantle led the league in both 5/4 times. Reggie led the league 5/4 times in each category.
At the end of the day, OPS approximately equals runs scored. OBP is slightly more important than slugging, but it is the total OPS that really matters.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
When you can hit 10 hrs & .384 OBP in 41 games
UBatting average alone doesn’t determine the value of a player. For instance, one year ender inciarte had a 303avg but his OPS was still significantly lower then 800. It’s not a completely useless stat but you have to take in to account other factors like how often they get on base in general. Someone that hits for a .300avg bit only has a .330obp Isnt as valuable as someone who hits .250 with a .380obp
My single scores the runner from 3b. Your walk puts runners at the corners. Walks are not equal to hits.
Walks are not equal to hits.
True, but the example you were responding to used a .380 OBP compared to a .330 OBP. In that example, the .380 always wins.
You get it Curly! I’m proud of you. Now don’t you feel silly insulting multiple commenters?
I’m glad you took the time to understand why Hoskins had a good year.
It’s the Mets, no big whoop
How did this injury even happen in his non-throwing elbow? Was it from swinging the bat?
A throw from C J.T. Realmuto went between Hoskins and the baserunner; the baserunner collided with Hoskins’ left arm. Think of a hyper-extended elbow that tore the UCL
How on earth does a position player get TJS on his non throwing arm? He will easily be back by opening day 2021.
See BDJG68’s comment above. Collision with a baserunner.
It’s nice to know being a Phillies fan is going to suck just as much in 2021 as it has in 2020.
It’s very possible they’ll be significantly worse next year without DiDi and JT. Plus it’s very possible JT will be with one of our division rivals. Good times.
I can’t wait for JTR to have a 700 OPS in 2021, and everyone rips whatever figure head is credited with signing him to the longterm deal in Philly
I’m dying laughing at all the press screaming for the Mets to give JTR $200M. Yeah, seems like a brilliant idea to set a record for a 30+ year old catcher… I’m sure that won’t turn tragic by the middle of year two.
Yup. I love Realmuto and hope the Phillies resign him, but he has overpay all over him. Some team is going to regret that signing, but it’s not my money.
Keep Didi, sign McCann to share catching duties with Knapp, and spend the savings on getting a legitimate CF. Improved up-the-middle defense and an instantly better team. Maybe even sign Kiké Hernandez for additional flexibility and defense. He is fantastic at 2B. The Phillies will otherwise be done with their pricey obligation to Arrieta. There are ways to improve the team even if Realmuto leaves. And with the expanded playoffs destined to hang around, they will be a tough out with Nola and Wheeler atop the rotation. The trick will be getting there, but a sharp GM can get it done.
Actually, 2018 & 2019 are worse than 2021. It’s depressing to lose. It is extremely depressing to lose AND to be beaten out by a team that used your players to beat you out.
I have Philly fans saying he is better than Alonso after a 60 game season lol.
I mean he was this year. It’s not really laughable. Alonso’s sophmore struggles were very evident, but also like Hoskins did with his sophmore slump, Alonso will find himself again. I don’t think Alonso will ever be the 50 hr+ hitter of 2019 again, but I don’t think he’ll struggle as much as he did in 2020 either. Hoskins gets on base a lot more, but Alonso likely hits more homeruns. Both are bad fielders. I think they are very comparable players despite your “lol.”
Hoskins was wayyyy better this year lol
I agree. It will also be the last year you ever say that imo.
Pete Alonso will ultimately be Steve Balboni 2.0.
Bellinger will never be a mvp again
Alonso will hit 50 again. This the worst he has ever looked and will look and he was on pace to hit 40+
Hoskins isn’t in the same conversation as him just bc he did better this year.
Hoskins will never have a year like alsono had his rookie year. Think about that
Hoskins rookie year was not a full season and guess what? He was on pace for 50+ homers. Lol. Now obviously it’s not fair to compare “on pace” to someone who actually did it. But Hoskins was an absolute beast in his first season. Then he struggled mightily in his sophomore year. Sound familiar? Alonso and Hoskins are very similar players. I fully expect a bounceback year from Alonso, but I don’t see 50 homers again because pitchers don’t give him fastballs anymore. He needs to learn how to deal with the breaking balls, but he’ll be fine. He definitely isn’t leagues above Hoskins. It’s amazing how comparable the two players are actually.
Alonso is a better hitter. It’s sad that this even a discussion just bc Hoskins did good and Alonso slumped for 60 games… I’m sure Hoskins is better than bellinger altuve Bergman and yelich too
Nice strawman. Let me try….
I’m sure Alonso is better than Bellinger, Altuve, Bregman, and Yelich too.
Why do you think Alonso is better? I’m not saying he is or isn’t. But your just stating future Alonso homerun predictions and Hoskins failure predictions.
I’m not, nor have I ever said Hoskins is the better hitter. I said I think it’s not crazy to compare the two. I do think you’re overlooking Hoskins’ rookie year though. It gets overlooked because he only started in August, but he hit 18 homeruns in that short span. It was record breaking. Obviously Alonso’s 2019 was more impressive and absolutely historic, but it’s important to remember they were both crushing the ball their rookie years. Then pitchers started throwing them garbage and they struggled. Hoskins adjusted this year, having a pretty solid year before his injury. He was actually on fire, carrying the offense before his injury. It has yet to be seen if Alonso will adjust, but my money is on yes. It’s not “sad” that it’s a discussion because they are very similar players. Both had phenomenal rookie years. Both struggled in their second year. We’ll see what happens next for Alonso. Does he turn into an all-or-nothing type of hitter? 40-50 homers with a ton of strikeouts? We’ll see. I think it’s foolish to assume he’ll struggle like he did this season, but it’s equally foolish to assume he’ll be just as good as he was his rookie year. Pitchers don’t pitch around rookies. Pitchers pitch around the guys who hit 53 homers. Want a bold prediction? I actually think Dom Smith is better than both Hoskins and Alonso, and I think Smith has a monster 2021 season.
Hoskins is a really good hitter and Ik he killed us in his first year. But Alonso didn’t have a full year and you don’t know if he would really have had a sophomore slump. He was on pace for 42 homers after all. And he was doing bad but I don’t if it was the word season or not. We really don’t know how his year would have gone under normal circumstances. That’s why I brought up the other players who are clearly better than the two. And smith is the best pure hitter out of the 3 for sure. But smith doesn’t have the ceiling that Alonso has.
I wasn’t saying he was. I used the names to say you can’t go off a 60 game season. All those players are amazing and hit like Rojas from the marlins. And Rojas hit like a all star. I was just saying I better not here anyone say that Hoskins is better than Alonso at the start of next year. He just isn’t. He is a good player tho. NL east 1B goes like this
Yeah. I agree with everything you said in this last comment.
I have no idea what’s going on with Philadelphia and all four of their sports team just injuries galore I mean every team decimated by injuries and not just this year for the late last four years for each team it’s been unbelievable
Where have you been for the last fifty years?
Bart Harley Jarvis
Palo Alto 2017-present
Thanks for asking.