Cubs president of baseball operations Jed Hoyer spoke with reporters on a Zoom call this morning, discussing a slew of topics in the wake of yesterday’s trade of Yu Darvish and Victor Caratini to the Padres. Notably, Hoyer claimed early in the process that the financial component of the trade was not the primary focus (Twitter link via Patrick Mooney of The Athletic):
We always have an eye on the finances of every deal. In 2020, obviously, some of those things are magnified. But that was not the focus. The focus of this deal was to try to move a player in the second half of his contract and acquire a lot of young talent.
It’s tough to sell that finances weren’t the focus of the deal, given that the Cubs cleared more than $50MM in salary (over the next three years) and didn’t receive any of the Padres’ top 10 farmhands. Three of the four minor leaguers acquired in the trade have yet to play their first professional game, thanks to the lack of a minor league season in 2020.
Nevertheless, Hoyer expressed confidence that the Cubs will have a competitive roster in 2021, although he simultaneously indicated that the organization won’t be a major player in free agency despite the money saved from the Darvish trade (Twitter links via Gordon Wittenmyer of NBC Sports and Paul Sullivan of the Chicago Tribune).’
Hoyer also called a report suggesting that the Cubs were shopping Willson Contreras “fictional,” though he acknowledged he has received trade interest in his catcher and would not label him untouchable. ESPN’s Jesse Rogers tweets that in spite of Hoyer’s denial, the Cubs have indeed discussed Contreras with other clubs “a lot” in the “recent past.” The Athletic’s Sahadev Sharma added that the denial does not mean Contreras won’t be moved, though there haven’t been “substantive” talks in the past week or two.
The messaging throughout the call seems rather mixed. Hoyer has asserted that finances did not drive the trade, which most in the industry view as a salary dump. Free agency, meanwhile, will become a priority again only when the roster “has the bones” of a contender, which inherently implies that the current roster has something less than that (due, in no small part, to the Darvish trade itself). Yet the company line is that this team will compete in 2021, and the very notion of shopping Contreras was framed as ridiculous.
Also puzzling was Hoyer’s characterization of the Darvish return. While it’s standard to see an executive express excitement over the young talent acquired in exchange for a star player, as he did today, the newly minted Cubs president also suggested that this was the best package he could coax from the Padres (Twitter link via Rogers). Hoyer noted that San Diego counterpart A.J. Preller has steadfastly held onto MacKenzie Gore and most of his organization’s best prospects throughout a frenzy of trade activity dating back to August.
However, the very mention of taking the best return out there seems to imply that there was indeed pressure from ownership to make a deal. Taking the best deal available is only the course of action charted when taking no deal at all isn’t an option. Beyond that, if finances truly weren’t the main focus, one would assume the prospect return have been heightened by the Cubs offering to pay down more than the reported $3MM they’re sending to the Padres to cover Darvish’s remaining $62MM in guarantees.
It’s an unenviable spot for Hoyer or any executive to have to talk around a trade of this nature, but this morning’s press conference still felt more disconnected than it needed to be. At the end of the day, the Cubs’ message is that trade was not intended as a salary dump; that the team will still be competitive in 2021 without any notable free-agent additions to a roster that may not have the “bones” of a contender (and also just lost a Cy Young runner-up); and that initiating additional trades of established players (e.g. Contreras) is far-fetched.
The goal may have been to push back on the notion of a full-scale teardown, but the resulting depiction is something of a rudderless ship. Does this team view itself as a contender for 2021? If so — and if not for financial reasons — why trade its best pitcher while eschewing free-agent additions with the associated cost savings? If not, then why push back so strongly on trading Contreras?
The good news for the Cubs and their fans is that no one else in the National League Central seems to want to try to separate themselves from the pack. Given the inactivity throughout the division, the Cubs could still find themselves among the Central’s more competitive teams by default. Still, whether it happens this winter or next offseason — when each of Anthony Rizzo, Javier Baez and Kris Bryant are slated to reach free agency — it’s clear that substantial change is on the horizon for the Cubs.
pinkerton
I wouldn’t want to break bread with Jed Hoyer
Budlight Selig
He’d probably take a biggest piece and leave you with a few crumbs and future considerations.
swinging wood
* A crumb to be named later
chitown311
Hoyer the Destroyer!
DrDan75
Call the WWF
chicagofan1978
World wildlife fund?
iml12
Enjoy the Sox. Stop being an absolute Db.
SCHWING and A Miss
Jed blew it, no doubt but this is all ownership though…they are determined to slash payroll and Hoyer gets to wear the goat horns. Clearly Theo had no intentions of being the scapegoat
cubsnomore
Jed is the hatchet man. When the new owner takes over he’ll get his bonus and leave.
seth3120
Ricketts bought the Cubs not all that long ago I doubt he’s looking to sell
seth3120
He said it wasn’t a salary dump but went on to describe it as a salary dump. When you move a great pitcher on the back end of his contract for young players that’s by definition a salary dump
Marty McRae
If Davies has a better year than Darvish then everyone needs to issue an apology to Jed.
ABCD
Still, I’d like to go into 2021 with Darvish and Caratini.
Marty McRae
I agree, on paper its a huge L losing Yu, but its definitely possible Davies puts up better numbers than the injury-prone Darvish. Cant be understated.
DrDan75
Davies is a one year rental. He will hit FA at the end of the season unless the Cubs can extend his contract.
IronBallsMcGinty
Extend him? They don’t wanna spend any money.
JoeBrady
I agree. It’s an obvious loss. But fans need to also look at the difference in cost. If, and that’s kind of subjective in this case, but if the Cubs spend the $10M in savings, plus the savings from Schwarber, on a guy like Springer, the Davies + Springer is better than Darvish.
It’s not quite that straightforward, but the $10M in savings needs to calculated in the difference between Darvish & Davies.
earmbrister
Yeah, I don’t see the Cubs being in on Springer. They’ve been sellers and will continue to be.
JoeBrady
I’d like to go into 2021 with Darvish and Caratini.
————————————————–
I’m not a fan of one-year thinking. Unless you are a small market team, with a short window, I think you have to look at the 6-year horizon.
ABCD
They had control over for Darvish and Caratini for three years. I can understand getting young players for the future, but these prospects will not help during that time period. Ricketts are going to pocket the savings and this offseason looks like the last two when they were over the luxury tax line.
DarkSide830
well you dont have him after 2021 so he better be very productive.
YourDreamGM
I will take Davies this year and whatever 50 million can buy over yu. Whatever else Davies can possibly provide and whatever value the 4 prospects with upside gives is bonus.
bazbal
Except they won’t spend the 50 M. Ricketts will pocket it so he can buy more rooftops and restaurants in Wrigleyville. And at this point, no one really knows whether the prospects have upside since three of them haven’t even debuted in professional ball.
Prospectnvstr
bazbal: Hardly any of ’19 draft picks & none of ’20 draft picks have played in a professional game. Even the ’19 DP’s that have played it’s such a small sample size. Should we lump them as not knowing if they’re any good, despite being paid handsomely?
Prospectnvstr
All of the prospects are in the top 20 prospects. As you mentioned 3 of them haven’t played a professional game yet, that is self explanatory that they do in fact have upside. To what extent is the real question that only time will tell.
cubsnomore
First they have to get a drivers license so their mom doesn’t have to take them to practice anymore.
clotty
Garrett Crochet was pitching in meaningful games for the Sox a few short months ago. What are you talking about?
davpass19
se qs
gost1
Typical cubs comment, expects to “buy” it up, look at your bp nothing homegrown but Underwood, nothing in rotation but Alzolay, all your homegrown in lineup are 1st round cinches Lol You’re team doesnt know jack about development, and they have to trade off over paid players on backend of contracts to get more overpriced overhyped Padres prospects and former Hoyer doesn’t even realize it. How soft (what a negotiator!) to go back to his own well. Upside-down on Hayward Bryant Kimbrel and Rizzo what a sad lot! I got a 36th rounder pitching on my team, and 4 Rule 5’s were taken including Mayfield@ Braves and he was UNDRAFTED brilliant scouting by Jim Stevenson. Your team has like 50 Rule5’s nobody wants. It’s disgusting how they have burned money cant even win a playoff game.
swinging wood
If we take injuries out of the equation, I’m in.
lowtalker1
Trying to save face
ABCD
Surprised that MLBTR hasn’t run a poll of Darvish trade grades. So, Padres: A. Cubs: D for dump.
kylegocougs
That’s exactly the grade I would give this move.
YourDreamGM
Other way for me. Cubs get a A for sure. I love this trade for the Cubs.
Frahm_
Youre joking right lol
GASoxFan
Technically a nightmare is a form of dream.
Thus, it logically follows that “yourdreamgm” is, in all actuality, a nightmare gm and the takes should be evaluated accordingly.
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
More like a nightmare gm lol
JoeBrady
Cubs get a A for sure.
——————————–
Since I already handed the Rays an A, I can only give this one a B.
rondon
The only way I’ve been able to make any kind of peace with this obvious salary dump is the hope that Hoyer will add a Brantley to that lineup. That would be a significant upgrade and show their motivation was to free up enough cash to improve in another way besides pitching. But if they don’t spend some of that, Ricketts (and Hoyer) will lose all credibility with fans.
iml12
The only path to redemption is Davies > Darvish and resigns for a team friendly deal.
davpass19
The bread would be stale and he would give you the bill for the drinks and the bread! I love when bold faced liars say things like Jed said! It so woke! Finances are bad everywhere in this weaponized Pandemic…that includes all sports and 100s of millions of Americans! So how about telling the truth Jed? You dumped salary to cut costs! Not hard to admit nor is there anything wrong with saying it up front! It’s Facts!
Elvisismyhomeboy
I believe this about as much as I believed the Astros when they “apologized” for cheating
paddyo furnichuh
Elvis, indeed!
Maybe Theo did not want to be the messenger of inaccurate “spin,” and the brunt of criticism.
bigdaddyt
Man I don’t know. If Davies has a good start they can probably flip him for a decent return. Plus if they use money saved from Darvish contract to say eat half of Bryant’s money in a trade they could get a good haul back there too
Sideline Redwine
If Davies is at his best, he is a three–he will not receive a big return for a half a season! Look at the good players traded w a half a season left…none of them led to a nice return.
bigdaddyt
Could get a decent return at the deadline if he’s healthy and teams are desperate. All depends on who else is on the market. If he’s one of best pitcher shopped at the deadline his price will go up to being a decent prospect im not saying saying the Cubs will get someone’s #1 prospect by any means but could get something or get a qualifying offer after the season
drasco036
Times have changed of course but for a 3 starter the Cubs received:
Jake Arrieta for Scott Feldman
Kyle Hendricks for Ryan Dempster
Hendricks was never a “top prospect” and is one of the best pitchers in all of baseball.
People get WAY too caught up in draft rankings. Several guys turn into MLB regulars if not superstars after never being a “top 100” prospect. Willson Contreras being one guy on the Cubs off the top of my head. And then you have guys like Almora, Russell and Schwarber… all top 100 prospects looking for MLB jobs with Schwarber the only one likely to get one.
Lastly, the prospect game isn’t an instant gratification game or at least it’s rarely an instant gratification game.
Prospectnvstr
drasco036: You’re absolutely correct. Year’s ago when the Indians were being called cheap, they traded C.C. Sabathia to Mil for Top prospect Matt LaPorta and a little known guy named Michael Brantley. Look at the end result. C.C. leads MIL to the playoffs then bolts for BIG money from the Yankees. LaPorta washes out and Brantley’s a bigtime player, not HOF worthy by any stretch but a star player. Not a bad return for a dozen of starts from Sabathia, who was leaving at season’s end.
drasco036
I love Michael Brantley! I really wanted the Cubs to nab him two years ago and I still want to see him in Cubbie blue.
Brantley is exactly the type of guy that flies under the radar in prospect rankings but all he ever has done is hit. Oddly enough, I remember Brantley’s scouting report when he got traded, he didn’t profile well defensively as a center fielder and didn’t hit with enough power for the corners.
Badfinger
Theo was wise to get out of there.
kylegocougs
The fact that he left a year early made me very certain this was gonna be a bad offseason for CHC
YourDreamGM
Theo’s move definitely wasn’t about money.
yankees500
If it wasn’t the focus of the trade then Hoyer an awful negotiator then.
DrDan75
He is inexperienced. This was his first trade. AJ did a great job upselling all those teenagers.
ABCD
Hoyer was the Padres’ GM ten years ago. Don’t you remember?
SoCalBrave
He’s either not being honest, or he got fleeced.
rondon
He didn’t get fleeced. This was a conscious decision by Ricketts telling Hoyer to dump salary. Not get MLB ready prospects and pay a chunk of Darvish’s contract- just dump the contract and get what you can.
windycitykid89
So you want to be competitive in 2021, yot you’ve slashed payroll by over $50 mil and won’t be heavy players in FA?
Yeah, you’re not going to fool many people with that quote.
GASoxFan
Chaim bloom is using that line the second off season in a row. Must be catching on in mlb.
Soon nutting/Cherington will be telling you they expect to contend in 2021 at current payroll too.
Stech36
How much do people think Yu Darvish would get on the free agent market? I’m thinking he had something like $15 million – $30 million in excess value. The trade seems fair with that in mind.
Marty McRae
He just came second in the Cy Young award and probably should have won it. Someone would have given him 3/60.
His BB/K ratio over the last 2 years is 70/322, from the second half of 2019 on its 21/211. That is absurd.
He’s an elite SP, those don’t get less than $20M a year.
DarkSide830
nah, not with his injury history and age, but its hardly a terrible contract this far in.
south side hit men
@Marty: He should not have won the NL Cy Young last year. No need to read the rest of your comment
kylegocougs
Agreed, Darvish is elite
SoCalBrave
He had a great year, after 2 very subpar ones. The Cubs are simply betting on Darvish not repeating his 2020 and therefore this was their best chance to get out of his contract.
IronBallsMcGinty
So you’re saying he’s better than Bauer?
JoeBrady
Someone would have given him 3/60.
—————————————–
I think that was the point Stech36 was trying to make. I said something almost identical. In today’s market, $75M/3, with his injury history, is probably Darvish’s ceiling. If everyone agrees on $75M/3, then SD owes the Cubs $16M in players.
Davies alone might be $3-5M of that $15M. I’d guess those four prospects are at least the remaining $10-12M difference.
The point being is that Darvish is a very good pitcher, but his contract is close to market value.
Cap & Crunch
Ironically my guess, if he was on the market today would be prolly be 3/60 and Im not even kidding
If he was only 31 yrs old 5/120
If he were 28 – 6/160
YourDreamGM
He had very little surplus value. There is a reason the padres ended up with these top pitchers. They easily offered the most for them. Give me Davies and the 50 million and use the prospects to get Musgrove.
iml12
Bauer apparently looking for 5 for 200(teams are on crack if he gets it) Darvish getting at least 3-75 to 80
worthington
I could see this trade being a wash…Darvish will revert back to choking when it matters most and the prospects won’t amount to much.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Choke or not, Darvish is a big game pitcher when healthy.
CaptainCanada
As a long time Cubs fan I am still trying to make sense of the deal, rolling the dice on prospects vs losing another pitcher on a hurting rotation, Why make a rebuild move when the central can still be won? I call BS on the non financial statement,
Just a guess, Theo likely left because Rickets is being cheap, not allowing him to make the moves he wanted.
kylegocougs
Exactly, spending 20-40 million this off-season could have fixed all the Cubs short term problems and given them a puncher’s chance at a pennant. Hell $30mm would have gotten them a potential long term option at SS or 3B in Kim.
YourDreamGM
Now they have that 20 million this year, 35 for future and Davies will slot right in. He might not have 6 pitches and cy young votes but the win loss won’t be much different than what yu done for the Cubs. Yu might have better results this year being on a better team.
rondon
But Hoyer stated they will not dip into free agency, which means the Darvish “trade”was nothing but a salary dump with no intention of spending to improve. So it’s the same lame offense in desperate need of a couple of high OBP guys that they will not go out and get.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
The Cubs needed to shake some things up though. It was apparent that the current roster was not going to get it done for them. They vastly underperformed every year after 2016.
I’m not saying this was the right move and nor am I defending it… I’m just saying I feel something had to be done to restructure the roster.
David Herrick
Pwndroia, agreed with your comments!!
They need to shake things up. I don’t disagree with trading Darvish or Contreras, but I preferred getting some more useful pitching for 2021 (other than Davies), possibly Weathers or Morejon. Maybe Morejon, Placiado, Davies, and Santana as a preferred deal. But if Contreras brings back a few pitching prospects, this trade looks better in context.
A writer at Fangraphs listed Placiado (eventually a plus defensive 3B) as ranking better than SS Howard with the new SS Santana #9 or #10 in the Cubs’ system. It’s a very risky trade with only one useful asset for 2021, that’s my only problem with it.
The Cubs before the Darvish trade were not better than the Dodgers, Braves, Padres (and possibly the Mets with their potential moves this offseason).
The Dodgers traded Maeta and Verdugo last offseason and still one it all (granted they got back Betts). My point: the Cubs can still win the NL Central even with this trade and possibly trading Contreras.
My problem with Hoyer’s statements: the Cubs now have $70 million in salary space below the luxury tax. They could easily sign Quintana, Kluber, Paxton, La Stella, Archie Bradley, Hand, and Jackie Bradley (plus some cheap catchers) AND still trade Contreras AND still win the NL Central. Maximize free agent value not attached to draft pick compensation (no signing Bauer, Realmuto, LaMehiue) and gather prospects for the future. Makes sense to me.
David Herrick
Oops, LeMahieu
drasco036
I look at the trade Hoyer made and my initial reaction was shock we didn’t get a better package. My secondary reaction after looking deeper… I’m kind of happy.
It’s a high risk/high reward trade but this is where “baseball experts” i.e. commentators always mess up… They fail to see where baseball is headed vs. where it is right now. If they had more foresight they would be GM’s and not commentators and that is where the excitement is.
Go back and read all the prospects breakdown, the common theme except for Caissie is contact and contact is the new direction baseball is heading. These guys are project-able and already have high contact skills. It’s a 180 to Theo’s direction of pop with high OBP/high K’s.
It’s the GM’s that can adjust that thrive in this game, that see the trends before the trends happen. Friedman is excellent at it, Theo was very good at it, Lunhow is good at it. They were/are good at beating the league. The league does this so we will do that.
Where Epstein failed as a GM, is that he got strapped with a lot of guys who beat what teams were doing in 2010-2017 but Lunhow rapidly developed a system to beat launch angle.
terry g
I’m not sure I buy what Hoyer is selling. If it’s not a salary dump then it is even a worse trade than I thought. The only thing that would save it is Darvish breaks down and Davies has the best season of his career. Both are possible but not likely.
Deleted_User
Should have gotten another prospect instead of rental Zach Davies.
SCHWING and A Miss
Davies will probably be flipped at the deadline, if not sooner
Deleted_User
@SCHWING and A Miss Davies is not a “flip at the deadline” candidate. He is coming off his statistical best season and one year out from FA. At the deadline he will have ~40% as much club control remaining as he has now which means 40% as much trade value as he has right now. And that’s IF he sustains his 2020 performance. If he gets injured or regressed the Cubs get nothing.
SCHWING and A Miss
He’s a “flip at the deadline” because they’ll have no intentions of keeping him and trading him right after saying it wasn’t a salary dump would be ridiculous.
Deleted_User
@SCHWING and A Miss so basically you are saying that not pissing off a bunch of casual fans is more important than maximizing the utility from Davies.
… k
SoCalBrave
They might “flip” him at the deadline, but they won’t get anything good for him
SCHWING and A Miss
Kinda, it’s what the world has become…offending a few people turns into social media outrage and I think it’s all about avoiding that.
WarkMohlers
I think he’s either traded before the season, that way the team can buy the comp pick with the QO if he repeats (probably boost the return slightly). If he’s kept and performs well I am inclined to think the Cubs hold on to him and offer a QO because other teams won’t give up much and they Cubs would probably not mind if he accepts the offer the next year.
With that said, I don’t think the Cubs want to sit and wait to see if he will continue his success and risk losing the QO and the trade options. A cheap, mid rotation starter coming off a good year, should be worth more now.
Although, schwing has a point. Gutting a team, especially a drought breaking team, is a difficult pill for fans to swallow. Business-wise it makes sense but customer satisfaction with the product and how it’s made is also a factor in what you want the public to buy.
Deleted_User
In order to be a (good) GM, you have to COMPLETELY tune out optics and fan approval. That is what Andrew Friedman did when he traded Matt Kemp, Derek Jeter did when he traded Giancarlo Stanton and Chain Bloom did when he traded Mookie Betts. Look at how those trades worked out for their teams.
Oh and Zach Davies accepts the QO in a heartbeat if it is made.
WarkMohlers
In order to be a great GM you consider all aspects of the business and game. Friedman trading Kemp when he was an unproductive payroll anchor or Jeter trading the face of a floundering franchise with a small, frustrated fan base does not equate to gutting. Trading Bryant, Contreras, Darvish and releasing Schwarber is gutting to a large, loyal fan base.
I understand this move from a fiscal perspective, but trading more from the roster is not as obvious a great move as it may seem. Saving money is just as important as revenue generation. Trimming payroll and reducing player recognition among the fanbase is old Marlins territory. And any team would be absolutely stupid to assume “fans will always show up”. Not respecting your customers will definitely affect gate receipts, tv ratings and deals, merchandise sales, and as revenue.
Right now I don’t think Davies gets a QO but another year like this last one? 100% gets one and declines.
Deleted_User
Oh yeah, Cubbies fans are just LINING up to see the great Zach Davies pitch!
Hoyer needs to trade Davies, Rizzo, Baez, Contreras and everyone else they don’t control through at least like 2023 yesterday. I could see keeping Bryant tho since they probably don’t get a better prospect than the QO comp pick for him right now but if he can play anywhere close to his career norms QOing him would be a pretty easy decision. Or they could trade him at the deadline if he build trade value. Davies on the other hand has no trade value to build.
And Davies would never decline a QO.
WarkMohlers
Never said Cubs fans were lining up to see Davies. That’s meaningless hyperbole and nearly a straw man. Weird, but I digress.
They need to trade those player to be competitive in the future (which I agree with you on) but they needed to trade them before to make the fallout to have a lesser potential financial impact. They held on to them too long and now they are in a corner.
If they trade them all before the season, they will get obliterated by fans and media. I think Bryant now, Baez in season, Rizzo is a tough call, then Contreras later maybe next offseason. That way it’s not a gut punch and still has some fan draws and restocks the farm.
Also, how would Davies not get a QO with a repeat performance? He’s young, pretty consistent, and would be coming off his two best years. Even with shortened seasons he would get a contract more than a QO even if the aav is less. He’d probably get a 4-5 year deal and I think he would 100% reject it.
Obviously Davies performance and QO is just arguing a non-issue. But, a situation potentially exists where he does get one and rejects.
Deleted_User
@WarkMohlers like I said. As a MLB GM (or PBO), having to make objective, unsentimental decisions that might not be popular with the fans and media comes with the territory. All the guys you mentioned are beelining towards FA and With the exception of Kris Bryant (who has a bunch of trade value to rebuild), their trade value diminishes with each passing day. If you want to get stuck in the middle because “ThInK oF tHe CaSuAl FaNs!” rather than jump starting the rebuild, then that’s on you.
Zach Davies has as good a chance of rejecting the QO as I do.
JoeBrady
I agree 100%. And said the same thing about Betts. Great player and all, but he was unlikely to re-sign with us, and even if he did, paying him until 2032 is a bit ridiculous.
Past that, it is mostly (not always) a function of receiving more future WAR than you are giving up.
iml12
They literally have no pitchers. Davies included or they are just flinging money at free agents. It’s Hendricks and mills with all of 90 innings of mlb work in 3 years and a bunch of double aa, triple a guys. You can’t ask them to throw 150+ innings. You still have to play next year. Honestly, I hope he gets extended to a slightly lesser Hendricks deal.
Deleted_User
@iml12 just bring up the AAA rotation. Next question.
iml12
What team has ever done that, ever? Guys who have thrown max 130 innings in the minors don’t come up and throw 150+ major league innings. It doesn’t happen. They come up on a pitch and innings count. The bullpen will be dead within 2 months throwing a bunch of AAA guys. Not to mention the cubs Aaa guys aren’t good. You are in lala land. Cubs will add two starters, period. Next questions
VonPurpleHayes
I thought the Darvish return was weak, but to be honest, shopping Contreras was a bigger issue for me. Glad there’s no truth to that, at least not anymore.
MLBTR Commenter
Contreras will not be a Cub in 2021
Deleted_User
What is the issue with trading Contreras? He’s gone in 2 years anyway.
DarkSide830
if you’re that sure he’s gone then that’s a problem.
Deleted_User
If you’re that sure the Cubs can sign him that’s even more reason to trade him. They can pull an Aroldis Chapman with him and have Contreras and prospects rather than just Contreras.
Sideline Redwine
Is there no truth to it? If you believe Hoyer and what he is selling, I have beachfront property in Iowa to sell you.
DTDATL
He just lied about this so why would you believe him?
Rangers29
lol.
SCHWING and A Miss
Fun poll…..which happens more in Chicago this year?
○Fire Hoyer chants
○Tony DUI’s
CaptainCanada
at least when Tony messes up they can blame it on drinking
SCHWING and A Miss
I’ll drink too that!
chitown311
Never forget the time The Cubs and The Ricketts’ TV failure Marquee Network hired 2 time DUI and CONVICTED FELON Mark Grace as their “color” commentator. 6 months ago!
SCHWING and A Miss
That’s 2 for Mark and 2 for Tony, be interesting to see who takes the lead this season?
stevebaratta
I still remember D-Back Mark Grace saying “I may not be good enough for The Chicago Cubs but I’m good enough for THE WORLD CHAMPION DIAMONDBACKS!” This was in the locker room right after they won the title. I used to be a Grace fan and rooted for him in that series, but when he said that I took it as a slap in the face to all Cub fans and the organization. I never watched him do a broadcast and don’t intend to. Besides, it’s more fun to listen to the excellent Pat Hughes on the radio.
Rangers29
C. The Cubs cheating scandal that happened in 2016 that will come out in June.
(If this is true then I’m a wizard)
SCHWING and A Miss
Hope not, MLB’s image is in the gutter as is…not sure it can take another scandal
HalosHeavenJJ
Yeah, not many people are going to buy that. The Cubs can probably still compete in the Central to a degree, but saving money with no intention of reallocating is is the definition of a salary dump.
cars
Jed Hoyer, Tom Ricketts and Theo Epstein really dumped a pile of crap on your plate
SCHWING and A Miss
Not sure a World Series Championship is a pile of crap, didn’t extend to multiple seasons of competing but that’s on the players too
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I’m a White Sox fan first, Cubs fan second, but I’ll always be grateful to Theo for 2016. The big mistakes, though, were in trading Gleyber for a half-season rental of Chapman (I still contend that with proper BP management, the Cubs would likely have won even without Chapman; Maddon almost ran that opportunity into the dirt) and then Eloy and Cease for Quintana. And, of course, the Heywood signing. They also didn’t extend anyone like the White Sox and Braves have done.
The good news is that the money is going to start coming off the books soon. If they’re smart, they’ll trade some guys before then and replenish their farm.
I Beg To Differ
If the cubs traded Baez, Rizzo, Bryant, Contreras they could still put together a competitive team in that division with free agents on the market.
Top priority would clearly be Trevor Bauer to pitch.
SS – Simmons
3B- David Bote or go big and sign Gregorious to play 3B.
2B- Tommy La Stella
1B – position change for Eddie Rosario or Justin Turner. Rizzo might be the hardest to move in this economic climate and how little importance is placed on 1B.
OF – sign Joc Pederson and a platoon partner for him to go with Happ and Hayward.
C – Robinson Chirinos and Jason Castro as a tandum both catchers were productive (offensively) as recently as 2019.
Certainly not a WS lineup by any means on paper but certainly could win the division.
It’d also give the cubs funds to sign pitching, which is probably the most important part of the equation.
DarkSide830
that’s still quite patchwork. competitive for the division? maybe, but that’s not saying much.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Agreed. That team would be lucky to get out of the first round. No realistic shot of getting past the Dodgers, Padres, or Braves.
Sideline Redwine
And how much would all these free agents cost compared to money saved?
Sure.
I Beg To Differ
Shipping out
Darvish 20.3 (after sending 5 mill over 3 years to the padres, 1.7 or so per year)
Baez- 10.5 mill (middle guess of MLBTR)
Contreras – 6 mill (middle guess of MLBTR)
Bryant – 18.6 mill
Caratini – 1.2 mill
And not paying
Schwarber – 8 mill
Jose Martinez – 2 mill
Tepera – 1.3 mill
The cubs have would create 67.9 million hole
Bote plays 3rd
Bauer 1 year 25 mill AAV (i doubt he gets 30 in a down year with owners crying poor).
Simmons 1 year 8mill
La Stella 1 year 5 mill
Pederson and platoon (1 year 6 mill for pederson 1 year 3 mill for right side of platoon, Pillar?)
Rosario 1 year 3 mill to play 1st
Castro and Chirinos 1 year 4 mill (2 mill each).
Total spent: 54 million. Savings of 13.9 mill.
That could be used to sign pitching.
Some guys need to reestablish value (Pederson. Rosario)
Some guys are at the tail end of their career and would see more playing time (Chirinos and Castro),
Some will be hurt financially by lack of revenue in 2020 (Bauer, Simmons, La Stella)
I Beg To Differ
Sorry forgot to include Rizzos 16.5 mill.
If they move him
Total available: 84.4
Total spent: 54 mill
Savings: 30.4 mill
If they don’t move him
Toral available: 67.9 mill
Total spent: 51 mill (no rosario)
Savings: 16.9 mill
YourDreamGM
I like Moreland Pederson. Adam Frazier can be had cheap. Any of the cheap 1 your prove it pitchers. Sign 3 of them if needed. I wouldn’t count on rizzo baez bryant going anywhere though. Unless the padres want them!
shorttracknews
That makes no sense at all. Trade the only name players you have and 4 of the 5-6 highest contracts on the team just so you can turn around and overpay for guys like Bauer and Gregorious and still not be competitive? If they trade those guys, their eyes are definitely on the future and not to worried about competing this year.
mike156
I’m not sure that the message is all that mixed. They are tearing down for economic reasons, and that might be an esthetically bad thing for the fans, but in the owners business interests. Nothing they have done so far have given any message other than that.
Sideline Redwine
He said it was not financially motivated, which destroys the foundation of your claim. A salary dump is bad enough w little return, but then to claim it is not an “economic” tear down…well, now he is lying on top of thieving (from the fans).
Lol yr last statement–read the article again. Jeez.
mike156
Maybe you should read my comment again, instead of getting your back up?
Cap & Crunch
Your going to run into a lot of problems in the future if you take what “he said” with more than a grain of salt-
They say these things bc it sounds a lot nicer than saying yea the big wigs at the top want to stuff their pockets with a little more cash next season
This is a dance and everybodys trying to look their best before they drop the lights – Im not doubting you read the article but I think it might have gone over your head Redwine
GASoxFan
Hoyer’s statements on motivations appear to rate up there with Richard Nixon’s “I am not a crook” on accuracy
Take that how you will.
MLBTR Commenter
So many of the Yankees holes could be filled with Cubs players. They’re setting up to be big trade partners in the next few weeks. They have the prospects to take their pick of Hendricks, Contreras, Baez, Rizzo, and Bryant. LFG!!!
YourDreamGM
Are Yankees looking to pay the luxury tax again?
MLBTR Commenter
I’m sure you’re aware that the Yankees are currently under the tax threshold by 60MM
laausc
According to Cot’s it 35.5 million
Dorothy_Mantooth
Incorrect. You are not factoring in the arbitration eligible players like Judge, Torres, Frazier (13 players in total). After agreeing to terms for Arb eligible players, the Yankees CBT payroll is estimated to be at $185M. So if they re-sign DJL for $20M/yr, they only have $5M left until they hit the first tax threshold of $210M. The Yankees don’t have much money to play with this offseason if they truly are trying to reset their CBT. I don’t see how they can do it unless they let DJL walk and only sign (2) B-level starters for $8-$10M per year. It sure seems like the Yankees will have to exceed the CBT limit this season if they want to field a competitive team.
laausc
Actually according to Cot’s they are at approximately 174.5 million in payroll including estimates for arbitration eligible players, additional 40 man roster and benefits … so they have another 35.5 million to play with before they reach the 210 million dollar luxury tax max … they want to reset so they won’t have to pay a 50% penalty for going over a 3rd year in a row.
Roll
Cots does not include everything that goes into the actual tax just what the players actual salary is. EVERY team has player benefits tax which includes health insurance, travel, meals, etc etc that is about 15M this year and goes up about 500k each year. Take that away from your 35.5 Miland you are about 20M which is basically what the yankees are offering DJL.
On the flip side I also dont think Cots accounts for money they receive as part of trades that lowers it .. so they may have a few mil back from Stanton trade.
Cap & Crunch
Im always amazed how unfamiliar the folks who post here are with Cots/Spotrac all while exuding so much confidence
Rule of thumb – If you dont have Cots/Spotrac bookmarked you probably shouldnt be posting about salary caps in any fashion
Cap & Crunch
@Roll- For spotrac (which i use more) the numbers are baked in already tho its a little tricky to read-
Ex- Look at LAD – For Price it will list his full salary 32 mill but up top in the the multi year summary it will only account for 16 for the Dodgers books
Looking at a case like Longoria gets a little more tricky but if you go to TB page you can deduce the difference from there retained/buried payrolls and minus that from SF
DarkSide830
that he even had to field such a question is the problem
NYYstateofmind
“Well the first thing you know ole Jed’s a laughingstock, Cubs fans said, Jed you better knock it off, said if you want stay here you best produce a winner, otherwise we’ll be slicing you up & havin you for dinner. Ricketts style that is!”
goob
Prettay…Prettay… Good!
kylegocougs
This is really well explained and written, thanks for all you do MLBTR.
Cap & Crunch
The crux of this article lies in the last 2 paragraphs not Jed doing what every exec does in shifting narrative when trading a legit MLB player for some prospects
Hell, 61 games ago they would have been happy shedding Yu for a bag of baseballs – I have no problem with the package they got but the timing is just so odd as the last 2 paragraphs elude too with the wide open Div and swan songs for Baez Bryant Rizzo on the horizon
Truth be told, there not damned in this Div even today, and if Davies can supply back 85% of the Yu value on the mound this year It shouldnt surprise anyone if they wind up winning the Div this year. It will be a very interesting trade to look back on a couple years from now. Cubs could very well end up smelling like Roses on this one.
This is a very difficult club to use in the bag, but the hedge wedge is very capable of making some difficult shots under some difficult circumstances when used correctly…… Cubs put themselves in the crab grass now its all about getting out best they can
Dorothy_Mantooth
Since most of the prospects they received were under 20 years old and haven’t played one professional baseball game yet, it’s going to take more than a couple of years to fully evaluate this trade. The best case scenario is that one or two of these prospects excel in the minor leagues and are ready to be called up by the end of the 2023 season but more likely the start of the 2024 season. Maybe they do well in minors and become trade bait in 2022-2023, but they won’t be impacting the major league club for quite sometime.
Chicago would be wise to hold onto Davies and give him a QO for 2022 (unless he tanks this year). He’s an underrated talent and his best years are ahead of him.
jimrad
I have a hard time believing that this was the best package for Darvish and Caratini.
seamaholic 2
Not many teams (almost none) would have a Zach Davies sitting around available to send back as the beginning of the return. The Pads only had him available because of the Snell trade.
themed
Why not tank for 5 years get all the number one draft picks then every one can call you a genius. They’ve done that there before.
SonnySteele
That strategy is less effective now that it’s become popular.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Yes, but it’s still hard to pull off and requires two other components:
1. Trading away any valuable assets for good returns (have to emphasize “good” here because Hoyer apparently doesn’t know what that means)
2. SIgning or trading for star veterans at the right time.
The Cubbies could kickstart a rebuild if they made smart trades of Contreras, Hendricks, Baez, and Rizzo. The problem is they can still win the NL Central, and think that makes them contenders. It’s sort of defensible, considering they had a lot of underperformers last year and still went to the playoffs, but they aren’t exactly increasing their chances by spending nothing and dumping the CYA runner-up for mid-level prospects.
The thing that upsets me is the BS from the FO. This trade is about the money. If it’s not, the entire FO is incompetent and should be replaced.
YourDreamGM
It still works. Only need to tank for 3 years. It’s not really tanking. If you trade away all your good players you will be bad. And no use in signing free agents until your prospects develop into something.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
That’s the blueprint for tanking. How do you think it’s not?
DrDan75
That’s what the Padres did. They tanked, got a bunch of top prospects, held onto them for a while, called a few up to the bigs and shopped the rest. Add a few FA signings and built the club they have today.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
White Sox, too. Difference is the Padres are being aggressive now that their window is opening and the White Sox are refusing “to pay CF prices for a corner OF.” Still have a good club with an outside chance at the WS if their rotation takes a step forward. Tampa Bay is taking a step back, the Jays are in on everyone but have signed nobody yet, and the Astros are set to lose Springer. The AL is a little more open than in years past.
Dorothy_Mantooth
That process took San Diego 5-6 years to fully complete. I don’t see the Cubs (and the Cubs fans) having the patience to do that. This is going to be a piece-mail rebuild in Chicago. I definitely don’t envy Jed Hoyer in this situation. There’s no question that ownership has issued mandates about cutting payroll and to not admit to the press that their moves are financially motivated. Tough way to start a new job…getting thrown to the wolves by the boss, but I’m sure the annual salary makes it worth it. If Jed can get through the next couple of years by shedding payroll / older players, staying relevant in the division and building up the farm with young talent then his accomplishments should be considered a smashing success.
seamaholic 2
Man, 800 words about this trade and not one sentence to be spared about the guy who just spun a 157 ERA+ season as a starting pitcher (career 114, Yu’s is 125) and is seven years younger than Yu. This trade was not Yu for the four kids.
YourDreamGM
Agree. I would have easily done this trade for the salary dump and the 4 upside kids. That is a A grade for me. But Davies also!!!!!!!! Love it.
SalaryCapMyth
See this is where I’m at. This isn’t a bad trade because it’s a salary dump. Many commenters have short memories, only considering what a player did just last season.
Darvish had a really good season and maybe he will have more but getting out from under the weight of that contract with all its risks is a good thing. Darvish may also never pitch like last season ever again. He MIGHT not have even had as good a season as he did LAST year had the season been a normal 162 games.
Those 3 kids they got just might become something while if Davies can even repeat his 2019 numbers, to me, this trade will look like a stroke of genius
Cap & Crunch
Agreed, was kinda my post as well-
2019 Cubs woulda been happy sending a prospect with Yu to get him off the books-
60 games later they are getting 3 prospects and a guy i view who gives them 85% of Yu in Davies at a fraction of the cost-
This trade cuts a little deeper than I think 80% of the board left is capable of digesting these days
Now the Q remains how will the Cubs spend the next couple of years?
Their payroll is amazing next year with only Heyward Hendricks and Bote under contract and its a great fa class….Will they re-enter the market for a guy like Lindor etc? Or will they become a sub 100 mill team rebuilding the farm while Heyward expires? I {Hope} the former but I dont think anyone here knows and maybe not even the FO yet-
SoCalBrave
I think this is a case of the Cubs trying to sell high on Darvish before he turns back into the pumpkin he was back in 2018-2019.
S_man_2014
“Finances were not the Focus of the Davish trade”. Looks like neither was winning games!
davemlaw
Honesty would go a long way toward building trust with Cubs fans. And it should come straight from the Ricketts.
Stop the lies, tell the truth.
DTDATL
So he accepted a mediocre at best return for what reason then? Just shoot straight with everyone. Even if they hate you for it, you’ll at least be given some respect for not being a filthy liar.
The Natural
If the Cubs were so eager to move Contreras, he’d be gone already. Would you rather have McCann at $40 mill for 4 years, Realmuto for 5 years at $100-125 or Contreras for a couple years with the chance to resign?
Steve Adams–i have a love hate attitude for you. Your last chat was not enjoyable.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
If finances weren’t the point, I guess intentionally getting screwed was, because the finances are the only thing that made this trade defensible.
padam
Agreed. There was no other reason to make this deal.
paindonthurt
Well written article…
TrueOutcomeFan
All those words and you provided nothing but BS conjecture and a few links. Stick to the links next time.
Ryan W
He has to say this, but it was or he needs to be fired.
Shrutefarm
Like most trades, it is way too early to grade it accurately. I mean, the Cubs did give up a pitcher coming off his best 12 start run of his career*. However, before last season, he had not had an ERA below 3 since 2013. Which Darvish are the Padres going to get for the next 3 years? And it’s not like they aren’t getting substance in return. Davies had a sub 3 ERA like Darvish. He is not just another retread. Granted, he is a free agent after this year, but the Cubs will then have about $50 million additional room to spend on areas of need. Not to mention, they added depth to their farm system.
*arguably
TradeRumorUser
Idk all these complaints about the return, you cleared money off the books for a 35 old pitcherwho during the tenure of his contract has had one good year. Granted no major prospects in the top 10 or ml talent added except for Davies but a couple in the top 30 young and controllable for many years whether they pan out in the long term is something else considering they have yet to play a professional game but I’m not sure what you really expected to get back for darvish. You don’t even know which darvish was gonna show up next year and if Davies pitches better than darvish in 21’ then sd took on money for an aging pitcher and hoyer looks like a genius
stan lee the manly
To be fair, Darvish is 34. But ya, his recent history doesn’t bode well at his price point for a full season.
oldtimer
Everyone needs to realize that Jed works for the owner. The owner gives direction and the employees follow them. Right now the owner wants to control spending. The Darvish trade did that. The Cubs got the best return Jed could get.
nentwigs
I hope that the reporters on the Zoom call with Hoyer had their shovels handy.
What an immense load of ownership protective, job retentive, thinly veiled excuse CRAP !!
The move was ALL about $$,$$$,$$$.$$ and nothing else. !!
Vizionaire
yeah, right!
Appalachian_Outlaw
Theo was a wise, wise man. That trade was strictly a salary dump, and that had to come straight from ownership. Then Hoyer has to face the music for it and try to spin it in a way where ownership looks good, thus making Hoyer look terrible at his job. Hoyer will soldier on, and then probably be fired in a few years. That’s the definition of being set up for failure.
Rsox
The Darvish trade was 100% financially motivated, as were buying out Lester, and non-tendering Schwarber. Those moves have easily saved around $35 million at least. Add the expiring contracts of Jose Quintana, Tyler Chatwood, the Cubs have saved a lot of money.
laausc
Actually the Cubs are resetting their luxury tax based on being almost 76 million under the 210 million set for 2021 … it’s all about not paying a 40% penalty for being over for a 3rd straight year.
laausc
The penalty is actually 50% for going over the luxury tax threshold 3 years in a row.
joedirte4life
Ole Jed would make a good Chicago politician with the lies he can spew.
stan lee the manly
If the trade wasn’t financially motivated, then the Cubs got hosed, plain and simple. So either he’s a liar or a bad POBO. Should have just kept quiet or told the truth here
pcwizblue
Hoyer don’t sound like he is sincere or honest with the Cub fans. Maybe he has plans with the available free agents.
pcwizblue
Hoyer don’t sound like he is sincere or honest with the Cub fans. Maybe he has plans with the available free agents.
Sounds like a politician…
jessaumodesto
Must really like Davies
greg1234567
And if you believe then, then I’ve got some beach-front property for you in Kansas.
lefty58
You do realize there are thousands of beaches in Kansas don’t you?
greg1234567
That people want to purchase? In Kansas??
SalaryCapMyth
I think you just found a buyer, greg. =D
justme
The answer to this should of just been honesty…this team has woefully underperformed other then winning the series it has not met expectation… prior to now they have sunk a ton of money into this line up and it hasnt met expectations and the rickets are over it..yes jed blew the press conference but he was also put in a impossible situation…ownership want a rebuild but also doesnt wanna deflate the trade value of the current guys by admitting thats what they want…not to mention downgrading all they have invested by saying they are rebuilding…tough spot to be in as a new gm but still honesty would of sounded a whole lot better
bradthebluefish
Blah blah blah. Hoyer is a liar. He’s salary dumping. Trading Darvish for a bunch of less-than-expected prospects just so he could dump salary.
Hoyer is looking to trade Contreras. Staff leaked it out and now he’s trying to cover it up.
And he is no doubt going to trade Kris Bryant mid-season and get whatever he can there.
It’s all just ridiculous considering the revenue the Cubs make and how they went to the playoffs recently. Hoyer is covering for his bosses. He’s being a boss’s man. And Theo Epstein wasn’t interested in being a boss’s man. That’s why he left.
Cap & Crunch
Well said, and people should come back and view this post when they start bashing GMs who are under direct order to slash payroll instead of just taking the direct line in that the GM sucks yada yada
Chain of command here is important to understand. Hoyer indeed is being a company man but this goes way beyond him
kingcong95
If he was Pinocchio, he could sit at home plate and touch the center field fence with his nose.
dave frost nhlpa
It’s true. He said so.
its_happening
Winning also not the focus of the Darvish trade. If it’s not about finances, Darvish would still be a Chicago Cub.
Moneyballer
100% correct plus it’s not like the prospect haul was overwhelming that saying no would be a gigantic mistake. It’s was at best a very moderate return that could just as easily flop than turn into something great.
bykoric
Any Cubs fan who believes finances were not the focus of the Darvish deal, then I have a bridge to sell you. Finances have been the main focus of every deal or non-deal the Cubs have made the last 3 offseasons.
Major-market, billionaire owners are complaining they don’t have money, meanwhile the small-market Padres are going all in. Give me a break! Just admit what’s going on and deal with the backlash.
YourDreamGM
Where’s this bridge and ocean front property at? This trade brought back a great return. Shedding money was a added bonus. Us gms have a brutal job. You fans always want to keep your lil overpaid declining players.
If it was about shedding money they simply non tender baez bryant and decline rizzo option. Pay some of heywards money and trade him. Would never of signed kimbrel.
They are simply making smart baseball moves.
Appalachian_Outlaw
Us GMs?! ROFL. Ok… You spelled delusional wrong in your handle. The spelling you’re looking for is: YourDelusionalGM. You’re welcome.
Prunella Vulgaris
Also, it’s ‘we’ gm’s. (Subjective case.)
Cap & Crunch
The US was a little weird indeed but I agree with Dream(er)
61 games ago the Cubs would have willingly sent a prospect with Yu to get outta the contract- Today they netted 3+Davies
If it were strictly a money dump they’d a just passed on KB’s 18 mill this year (Not like its much surplus+ no future ) –
This was something in-between a black and white trade and those usually throw this board outta whack because most only see black and white here
1984wasntamanual
San Diego is a small market?
Big35Hurt
1 word for that:
LIAR
jb226
Between the horrible return and Hoyer lying through his teeth to us, and Ricketts crying poor for several years now, it’s obvious the Cubs have no plans to be actual contenders until at least 2023 or later. Probably later, since he is still unwilling to admit we aren’t a good team right now. So that is when I will resume watching them and considering attending any games when I go back to Chicago to visit family.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
If money wasn’t the motive. Then wtf was? Ricketts have been claiming they’re broke for 3 years now. Which couldn’t be more false. I’ll never turn my back on the cubs. The Ricketts have got to be the worst sports team owner of all time. Worse than Donald Sterling. Maybe that’s too harsh. They’re still bad
Appalachian_Outlaw
The Ricketts aren’t good, but Nutting says “Hello” from Pittsburgh.
SalaryCapMyth
There are 27 or 28 other teams that wish their owners had financed their team the way the Ricketts did the Cubs. They are absolutely the worst. Just the 27th worst.
Dunk Dunkington
If I took a shot for every lie Hoyer said today I would be dead. he is full of crap and and insult to all Cubs fans.
So what I got out of this is Darvish was not a financed focus move and yet he expects the cubs to contend in 2021 without using using the savings to improve in free agency? so team got lot worse and yet he thinks the Cubs are in good position to contend. Ok Jed!
Moneyballer
Don’t die on us patches, we need you!
swinging wood
Gaining internet cred is not the focus of me posting on internet message boards.
Moneyballer
It’s my only focus.
Inside Out
Oh god, Hoyer is a fool, but I guess a well paid one who got a promotion while those not making 6 figures for kissing Ricketts butt were laid off. Nice gig. Cubs hopefully end up in 4th for years to come.
JoeBrady
The Cubs are still the best team in that division. I guess you will have to live with them coming in 1st.
JFactor
Currently projected for 4th
Moneyballer
Hoyer can say what he wants but trading Darvish is NOT a move to be competitive next season. I think they know the window has closed on the cubs and that it’s in their best interest to reshuffle the deck.
chopper2hopper
And Jed Hoyer has officially lost all credibility among any baseball fan with any kind of brain.
Bordering on insulting.
Oldman58
How can anyone think this was a salary dump. You trade the Cy Young runner up for a pitcher who averages less than six innings a start, plus you get four minor leaguers three who have never played an organized professional game one who is 16 years old and one who is 17 years old. You save $50 million with no plans to sign a free agent. No surprise that Theo Epstein departed a year early. Tom Ricketts got his World Series then turned his attention from the team to buying up the neighborhood and Jed is his puppet. Ricketts from loved to hated in four years.
Moneyballer
What are we suppose to believe next, that you UPGRADED with zach davies?!
Moneyballer
I have to think there was massive pressure to get rid of that contract, otherwise they would have shopped him and held out for the best offer! I have no doubt other teams could have beat what san diego gave up for him either this offseason or at the trade deadline. This was the perfect storm of major pressure to trade and the opportunity to do just that.
16endgame24
The biggest thing was finding someone who could absorb that contract and had the minor leaguers he coveted. San Diego checked both boxes.
Moneyballer
Yes about the money, no about the minor leaguers. Other teams could have offered much more in the way of prospect talent. It was always just about the money. I mean think about it, Cubs had to choose padres prospects AFTER the Mariners, Rays and Indians all raided the cupboard and they didnt even land a top talent. Absolutely ridiculous!
16endgame24
The biggest thing was finding someone who could absorb that contract and had the minor leaguers he coveted. San Diego checked both boxes.
angels1961
Halos will take Zach Davies and Contresas
Moneyballer
I think the cubs like davies. Control guy very similar to Kyle Henricks.
David Herrick
The Cubs SHOULD consider trading Contreras, as he’s their most valuable asset. Trade him to the Rays (IMAGINE THE PROSPECT RETURN WITH THAT). Then resign him in two years, as the Rays won’t.
The Cubs need to shake things up. I don’t disagree with trading Darvish or Contreras, but I preferred getting some more useful pitching for 2021 (other than Davies), possibly Weathers or Morejon. Maybe Morejon, Placiado, Davies, and Santana as a preferred deal. But if Contreras brings back a few pitching prospects, this trade looks better in context.
A writer at Fangraphs listed Placiado (eventually a plus defensive 3B) as ranking better than SS Howard with the new SS Santana #9 or #10 in the Cubs’ system. It’s a very risky trade with only one useful asset for 2021, that’s my only problem with it.
The Cubs before the Darvish trade were not better than the Dodgers, Braves, Padres (and possibly the Mets with their potential moves this offseason).
The Dodgers traded Maeta and Verdugo last offseason and still one it all (granted they got back Betts). My point: the Cubs can still win the NL Central even with this trade and possibly trading Contreras.
My problem with Hoyer’s statements: the Cubs now have $70 million in salary space below the luxury tax. They could easily sign Quintana, Kluber, Paxton, La Stella, Archie Bradley, Hand, and Jackie Bradley (plus some cheap catchers) AND still trade Contreras AND still win the NL Central. Maximize free agent value not attached to draft pick compensation (no signing Bauer, Realmuto, LeMahieu) and gather prospects for the future. Makes sense to me.
ABCD
The Rays can’t afford Contreras. They’re rolling with a $60 million payroll and they re-signed Zunino and Kevan Smith and traded for Mejia.
SportsFan0000
The Padres had an absolutely loaded farm system where many deserving players could not even be listed on their “top 30” best prospects.
The prospects the Padres forked over to Tampa and Cleveland would
be rated “top ten” team prospects on most MLB teams that are not in the top 15 in MLB farm systems…
Cubs and Rays received treasure troves of young prospects…. many will be noted major league contributors in a few years.
The Cubs are doing the right thing.retooling their roster.
The Cubs have “peaked” and the current core is already declining.
Infusing the Cubs roster with young, hungry talent is just what the Doctor ordered.
It is better for the Cubs to retool now instead of letting the wheels completely fall
off their WS Championship team and head into a massive rebuilding down to the studs.(construction term)….
ABCD
Yet MLB.com just ranked the Darvish trade prospects in the Cubs system and they’re still in the 10-20 range, about the same spots they were in the Padres system.
chitowninwi
I don’t believe a word Hoyer says , he’s just someone who doesn’t know Cub fans, he’s a joke of a GM
Our Cubbies will suck this year , mark my words
16endgame24
The biggest thing was finding someone who could absorb that contract and had the minor leaguers he coveted. San Diego checked both boxes.
JoeBrady
Aren’t the Cubs still the division favorite?
ABCD
As of 12/31, Fangraphs has the Cubs in 4th, but every team in the NL Central is projected to be under .500. It seems like one team is saying to the other, “You want the division title, meh, you can have it.”.
PitcherMeRolling
The Cubs sound like the Wilpon-era Mets.
johnk
Your best pitcher for a bag of garbage.
Stormintazz
It’s like a number of other things in life. When you say it is not about the money. It is about the money.
Stormintazz
Didn’t Theo start looking for a job when the Red Sox were cutting payroll?
uncle1sock
There were almost 2 full seasons where Cubs fans would’ve done anything to get out of Quintana & Darvish’s contracts. That time has arrived and now Cubs fans are acting like we’re the Pirates. We’ve averaged close to 90 wins the last 5 seasons. Relax for another year, if they need to tear it down for ‘22 they will. This team can still compete!