10:32pm: Arenado will receive another guaranteed year on his contract for roughly $15MM, per MLB Network’s Jon Heyman, who adds that he could waive his no-trade clause as early as Saturday.
8:51pm: The Cardinals and Rockies have swung an enormously impactful trade centering on Colorado third baseman Nolan Arenado, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic was among those to report. The Rockies will send around $50MM to the Cardinals in the deal, according to Rosenthal, who adds that it likely won’t be official tonight and perhaps won’t go through this weekend.
Arenado has a full no-trade clause, though Rosenthal and Nick Groke of The Athletic reported earlier this week that he is likely to waive it in order to join the Cardinals. The five-time All-Star also has an opt-out clause in the seven-year, $234MM extension he signed with the Rockies before the 2019 campaign. But Arenado would still be able to opt out after 2021, he’d get an additional opt-out after ’22 and he would keep his full no-trade clause, Rosenthal tweets. He still has $199MM left on his pact over the next six years.
This has been a low-profile winter for St. Louis and the rest of its competition in the National League Central competition, but the Cardinals have suddenly come alive after a long slumber. Before agreeing to acquire Arenado, they re-signed right-hander Adam Wainwright, and indications are that they’ll bring back catcher Yadier Molina. Of course, in terms of impact, Wainwright and Molina pale in comparison to Arenado, one of baseball’s highest-profile stars. The well-rounded Arenado, who will turn 30 in April, has batted .293/.349/.541 with 235 home runs in 4,558 plate appearances since he debuted in 2013. Arenado has also totaled a whopping 120 Defensive Runs Saved and a 56.4 Ultimate Zone Rating at third base, where he has won eight straight Gold Gloves.
While Arenado was hugely successful in Colorado, his relationship with the team was – in a word – rocky over the past couple years. The Rockies were a playoff team from 2017-18, but they’ve dropped off drastically since. After the club fell well shy of a playoff spot in 2019, Arenado made it known he was unhappy with the direction of the franchise, saying he felt “disrespected.” Arenado frequented trade rumors then, but the Rockies retained him during what turned into another subpar year for the organization. It was also a disappointing campaign for Arenado, who slashed a career-worst .253/.303/.434 with eight homers in 201 PA.
Even though 2020 didn’t go as planned for Arenado, the Cardinals are clearly banking on him to serve as their long-term solution at third base. The team primarily used Matt Carpenter and Tommy Edman there last season, which was a playoff year. However, Carpenter went through his second straight below-average year, and he’s only signed for one more season. Carpenter is due to earn $18.5MM in 2021, while his $18.5MM option for 2022 is sure to be bought out for $2MM if he’s still with the Cardinals. Meanwhile, the versatile Edman could be the Cardinals’ pick at second base.
The Arenado pickup will obviously be a significant investment for the Cardinals, whose chairman, Bill DeWitt Jr., drew ire last summer for saying baseball’s not a “very profitable industry.” But the Cardinals suddenly do look as if they’re aiming to take over the NL Central in 2021, especially with none of their other division rivals – the reigning champion Cubs, Reds, Brewers or Pirates – doing much to better themselves this offseason. Certainly, if the Arenado trade is finalized, it will be the biggest acquisition in the division this winter.
The Rockies, on the other hand, looked to be in for a third consecutive lean year in 2021 before trading Arenado, and that’s all the more true with the face of their franchise on his way out the door. They’ll likely acquire lefty Austin Gomber as part of the return, Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports. Rosenthal names first baseman Luken Baker, outfielder Jhon Torres, and righties Jake Woodford and Angel Rondon as other possible names the Rockies could acquire. Gomber debuted in the majors in 2018 and has posted a respectable 3.72 ERA over 104 innings, though that production obviously falls quite a bit short of the impact Arenado has made.
With Arenado leaving, the question now is whether the Rockies will deal shortstop Trevor Story, who’s entering his platform year. Story would no doubt bring back a sizable return in a trade, as he is among the top players in the game at his position. It would seem to make sense for the Rockies to part with him if they’re not expecting to contend in 2021, but they may be interested in extending him, Mark Feinsand of MLB.com relays.
WOW, $50 MIL going to St. Louis? Are the Rockies gonna have any money to build a team in the future?
yeah theyll be very competitive by 2028
Lol this poor team might as well do what the Pittsburgh Pirates are doing. Props to the Cards for thinking big
I thought he was going to the Pirates.
Yeah did I miss an article that said Neil Huntington is working for the Rockies now?!?
They better be getting an unreal package back or else this is embarrassing. You’re trading your best player in franchise history, and chipping in 50 million dollars to do so? Bold strategy.
Rox won’t be getting much back.
For 50 million they better be getting back much.
It’s a salary dump on Colorado’s part.
For the money back? Obvious to me that they just paid for better prospects but okay dude
Sure is, but no need to eat that much money. They are getting value back.
They’re sending $50 million (or 1/4 of the $200 million remaining). Not much of a salary dump. They should be getting some decent pieces back.
They should have tried to get Gorman smh
It may also include Woodford or Rondon according to Rosenthal.
So, in other words, the Cards get Arenado by taking on 3/4 of his salary and sending no top prospects.
Pretty good for the Cards if Nolan’s bat holds up and he doesn’t opt out. He’ll always field like Brooks Robinson if he doesn’t get injured.
I think you’re right. At least one of them
Negative jocpedersonsmom…place my bets they grab one of woodford or Rondon for at least some of the 50 mill.
@jocpedersonsmom: No. The Cardinals are getting a top talent at a 25% discount. That costs prospects. You’re acting as though Arenado isn’t any good.
…salary dump and yet they’re still paying 50mm? doesn’t quite add up. Cards have to be giving them something.
Nolan is great. He’s just paid too much.
Uhhh you might wanna look up the definition of a salary dump. It usually doesn’t involve you paying 50 million. They’ll get decent players in return here. They wouldn’t have agreed to pay 50 million otherwise. He was a lock to opt out of that contract after this season, hence there wouldn’t have been anything to “dump” since his salary up to his opt out would have been significantly less than the 50 million they just paid out. Whichhhhhhhh tells me Nolan just agreed to waive his opt out option and finish his contract for the Cardinals since the 50 million amount indicates the Cardinals expect to pay him his salary beyond his opt out year. Boom. Mic drop. Get schooled son. I’m here Monday-Friday 8-5 pm EST.
@jocpedersonsmom: So please explain what you think the Cardinals sent back to acquire Nolan Arenado on what is now (after the $50 million discount) a 6 year, $150 million deal. You don’t think any good pieces are heading to Colorado?
Arenado can be a bit of a Richard Cranium, they dumped salary and attitude.
The Poet Laureate?
I don’t think top prospects like Carlson, Liberatore, Gorman, Herrera will be involved.
Article says Nolan is picking up an additional optout in order to come to STL.
You don’t get it man. They gave him away and had to pay to do it.
Salary dump or prospect buy….we shall see
I think the latter but Ive been wrong before. These are strange times
Moron. No way he’d opt out of his contract after this season!
Can anyone please tell the Rox that a little team called the Yankees is looking for a SS, preferably for team prospects in the 20-50 range? And, we will accept, meh, 10M along with him. Git R Dun
Cubfever- not sure many got the richard cranium reference. You are obviously not from Illinois. Well played.
Not sure how Arenando is getting paid too much. The Rockies agreed to the contract and signs the pay checks. You mean the Rockies offered too much?
Hey mom you changed your name from schwabers mom I seen. Cards just went miles ahead of the cubs didn’t they?
Gleybar for Story and the rox kick in the difference to keep the yanks under the salary cap.
Nice pickup for the Cards, but miles ahead? Don’t get cocky, themed. Gotta still play the games.
A lock to opt out, huh? Yeah, you’re certainly schooling people. So much stupid….
After what Rendon got last year you don’t think this guy can pull 150 million in free agency? Hell, Springer just pulled 150 million and he’s half the player. Seems to me sir like you are the M.O.R.O.N
Should have kept your name mom and changed teams. Your team is falling fast. One and done for another 108 years. Can’t stop laughing.
Um question. After the Yankees signed DJ where does Story fit. Gio Torres DJ Voit. Go Yankees.
First Stanton. Now more money with Arenado moving. Mid to small size teams need to think twice about long term commitments. If San Diego doesn’t soon win am I the only one who sees them dumping Machado in two years? Philly is large enough to absorb a lot of costs but if DD doesn’t win in his time there, I expect Harper to soon be after Machado. Just my take.
cubfever7: The Rockies “dumped” $50,000,000.00 IN ADDITION to Arenado. The money is well over what they would be paying him this season. The Rockies will be getting some decent pieces back, not the top guys from the farm system, but decent pieces.
A salary dump due to a looming opt out date. No other real option left.
Thanks. Born and raised in Chicago though.
He’ll be a bust outside of coors. My prediction.
Whoes gonna be the buyers looie?
Yankees already have Stanton , Dodgers wont want to go that route, and I think the Red Sox are over that route as well. Z in Sf isnt thay type of fellow…..
Sd will need Sd to pull that trade off….or get trader Jerry on a bender again
Chemo850: Better not give up your day job yet, son. As a prognosticator you have a lot to learn. In these uncertain times, the chances of Arenado opting out after this season and turning his back on the remaining $175 million are slim. And if the Cardinals win the division and advance in the playoffs, the chances are slimmer still.
@themed how are the cubs falling fast? Losing Darvish hurts, but this time last year his contract was nearly untradeable and he has an extensive injury history. They easily won the central with their 5 best offensive players drastically underperforming and to expect that to happen next year isn’t realistic. Lester, chatwood, and schwarber weren’t difference makers; 2 back back of the rotation/swing man types and a guy who never lived up to the hype. They need another decent starter (preferable 2) on a one year pillow contract, and another solid veteran bullpen arm, and even without that they’ll be competitive in the weak NL central. Pederson is a slight upgrade from Schwarber, and Davies is a serviceable 3/4 starter. Arenado should make STL the clear favorite, but they still aren’t far ahead of cubs, reds, or brewers. You also have to remember Arenado barely has a 780 OPS outside of Coors, so his bat isn’t exactly a sure thing. Another factor down the road is this adds a massive payroll commitment to STL future payroll, which could hinder their aggressiveness in terms of realistic ability to add impact talent in what is going to be a historic 2022 FA class, while Chicago has barely 40 mil in future payroll after 2021. I still like the move for the cards, but I wouldn’t be counting the reds, brewers, or cubs out just yet
Rockies won’t do that trade.
Exactly. They’re not getting any top prospects back. They had to chip in 50 million just to ensure that the Cardinals would take the rest of the contract off their books.
Read his home away splits as a hitter. No doubting his elite glove, but he won’t be the same hitter
Not really sure he would have gotten as long or huge contract if he played it out. To get one extra year at $15m, CO had to cover $50m of the overall contract. In the COVID world and it’s hopefully soon aftermath, would he really have opted out?
Cap, once the pandemic ends and fans return, I believe big market clubs including Boston will become aggressive as they try to regain fannies into seats. Many will jump back but others have been lost and some who may want to, simply can no longer afford to go to games like they did before. Combine that with how the Red Sox bought AO. It will be interesting to see the return going to CO given they had to kick in so much money. I think smaller clubs who don’t draw like Oakland and Tampa will be squeezed big time especially if the next CBA is not as favorable to them. Look already at how they’ve lost valuable players this off season.
I looked em up and they make me a little skeptical. Hope he holds up!
Mac1brad … is it necessary to name call? This is a baseball discussion amongst fans… are we on the back of the school bud in 3rd grade? Just because someone doesn’t agree with your take in a subject, you get satisfaction of calling them a name. I think most of the people on here would quickly discredit anything you post … just saying, I wouldn’t type something that you wouldn’t say if the person was right in front of you…. it makes you look completely classless.
I don’t think anyone opts out of a 199/6 contract given the current financial-health climate. Especially when you tack on 15 extra for your 37 years old season. I could be wrong.
150m would be less than what’s remaining on his contract after this year. But please, keep making yourself look stupid.
@northside you are spot on. Not often I agree with a cubbie fan but NL Central is still wide open even though Cards making strong moves this week.
Jos signing shows Cubs will compete. Off-season still in progress.
BTW You will like Davies. Wish brewers still had him. He is a great piece for any rotation.
Rockies are getting nada.
He was not a lock to opt out because he would not get near the money he already has coming. he probably would lose $50 million! hence the pay down.
Of course the Cards want to keep him. They’ve wanted him for years..
Boom.
@jturk Every single player in the game has better home stats than away stats. It has less to do with where you play than you think. Nolan is going to be just fine in Saint Louos.
He is .253 8 hr good
It separates cheeseheads from Richard cranium (Dick Heads) the Wisconsin Illinois state line
Cubs lineup still seems better to me . Of course trading Bryant or Contreras changes things . If Cubs add Wong even better. Other than goldschmidt dejong(meh) and arenado what do they have ? Bader Molina and two other bum outfielders and second baseman ? Cards will win with pitching if they win division and then swept in playoffs . This may make Cubs decide to trade Bryant and Contreras sooner than later . Trevor Bauer still out there for Cubs ?
How many teams would love that 1 World Series . Love the white six enthusiasm but only one team wins each year . Baseball tougher than nba and football just ask buccaneers fans . Only 4 teams have won a real 162 game World Series since Cubs did. Only one wins this year so everyone will be win Cubs watching someone hoist trophy .
Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
Names possibly going to Rockies include LHP Austin Gomber, 1B Luken Baker, OF Jhon Torres. Return also might include RHP Jake Woodford or RHP Angel Rondón. Exact package not confirmed. twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/13553459191857438…
Northsidecrossrifles good post , Cub haters if Darvish stayed would be man he played all central teams in 2020 who suck if he pitched against dodgers and braves and Padres he would get shelled . Now Cubs trade him he is the best Pitcher in all of baseball. I think Davies will put up comparable numbers to Darvish and Darvish last year will be a albatross. Getting 17 year olds in trade was for when Cubs will be great again . In line with last couple drafts . If traded for current stud prospects their clock would start before Cubs reload .
Machado has potential for that. I think Harper less-so. The latter is a lot younger and tbh, these guys still have a ton of production in the tank. The market is going through a ton right now but these teams have money to spend on FAs. That goes for San Diego just as well as Colorado really.
Bull. I was looking at some splits over at fangraphs the other day. Josh Bell’s splits have him significantly better on the road. Ballparks matter. Arenado was significantly better at home than on the road.. Not sure how Busch plays but I can’t imagine it plays as well for batters, especially power, as Coors does.
You’re taking Josh Bell as one piece of anecdotal evidence. I could list DJ lemahieu aa a guy who hit much better at home in Colorado and left and ended up doing even better.
Arenado won’t get the Coors boost but almost everyone hits better at home. His splits could easily not be as drastic once he moves to another stadium. We all know the glove plays. We’ll see what level we get w the bat.
It will be interesting to see the return and how the money will be paid to St. Louis. The Cardinals added another opt out clause and another year with 15 million or so in guaranteed money…
It’s a good move by the Cardinals (which I hate)…
They’re not trading Todd Helton.
@JDGoat, “ arguably”their best player in history. If Arenado produces with more even splits(at a slightly lower level) on another team, then that claim may hold true.
Have to think Todd Helton still has something to say about being the franchise icon. Arenado is certainly in that conversation but seems to me there’s a little recency bias baked in there too.
Signed,
Not a Rockies fan but a family member of mine is so I follow them a bit
Todd Helton is the best player in Their history. Recency bias is certainly baked in. Arenado did have a chance to be that guy had he stayed another 5 years and produced. But Todd did it for 16 in Colorado.
They didn’t trade Larry walker…what are you talking about.
They did to trade Larry walker? St. Louis 2004 at the deadline
Best player in franchise history is a bit of a stretch. Larry Walker built a Hall of Fame career there. Todd Helton wasn’t too shabby. I’d add Matt Holliday, Andres Gallaraga, and Troy Tulowitzki in. But Arenado is certainly special.
Best in franchise history?! Not likely. The todd heltons, tulowitzkys, cargos, and Larry walkers of the world would have a few words with you
Great. This is very surprising for me, I didn’t think he was going to be traded. I feel very good having Arenado with the Cardinals. All we need now is Yadi. After that we can sign someone to play second base.
Thats what Tommy edman is for
I hope they add carpenter to the deal, that’s the only way he’ll stop playing him.
Carpenter can also play 2B when needed if he’s not part of the trade and manages any kind of a rebound. The Edman/Carpenter platoon they’ve essentially had the last couple years just shifts from 3B to 2B.
Carpenter hasn’t played 2B since 2018 and hasn’t looked good defensively there since 2015. There is no way Carpenter gets meaningful innings there this season. It is Edman’s job to lose right now. Carpenter’s only shot for playing time is at DH potentially or as a lefty replacement for Goldy or Arenado.
Steve Nebraska No way in hell carpenter is a lefty replacement for Goldy or arenado! Dude will be playing on off days maybe.
That’s what I mean. He is a bench bat to give them a day off ideally versus a RHP. I think you assumed I meant a platoon bat. Absolutely not. He’ll get a start a week unless the DH is in the NL
Aren’t both Edman and Carp lefties? Man I miss baseball haha I couldn’t answer that for myself. How would that platoon work?
Edman is a switch hitter
I mean if he bounces back and hits 25-30 home runs he will(I know not likely)…. the 4 other infielders… Molina dejong nado and goldy were all gg finalists last year…. If carp hits at all he will play a lot of 2nd
Why Yadi? His best years are a few behind him.
Yadi is a leader in the Cardinals organization.
I am assuming that’s over the course of Arenado’s remaining years?
Scares me to think who we’re giving them for that money!
Or reasons to watch now.. I can recommend putting a 20YO Warren Zevon song on endless loop tho: “Things to do in Denver when ur dead”. It fits perfectly that Rockie team now.
This right here is why owners like Munfort should not be allowed to own a team. Arenado is a star and under no circumstance should you be eating 50 million to trade him.
Wont pay to field his own team, but will pay another 50M to field his All Star 3B for them. Baseball has some very serious economic issues to work out..the disconnect is deafening.
Saved $149 Mil and got back 1 serviceable Major league pitcher (Gomber) probably another prospect pitcher (Rondon/Woodford), Baker has power that could one day play at Coors and Torres who can go get it in CF.
If they wait they get an opt out or get to pay another $199 mill. Could be a good return in the long term.
I feel like the Rockies went more quantity over quality like most teams have this off season. But I think gomber, baker, woodford and Torres are good gets. Rondon has a big upside but not sure how his stuff would play in Coors. Gomber and woodford both have groundball tendencies which could be great. Torres has a huge amount of potential and was our only legit outfield prospect after carlson. Baker is just a moonshot hitter who cant run or field, so who knows. But I think the return was good
They’ve been just outside the top 10 in payroll the last couple years, how is that not paying to field a team?
Whoever goes to Colorado they will suck for the next decade, maybe not in 2032.
Good post. Torres and Woodford make this a good start from an upside perspective. Monfort and the GM did a well enough job. Absent Carlson, Gorman or Liberatore, these prospects represent the system’s upside.
Golandcrabs the Rockies got 50 mil in young controllable pitching in Gomber and Woodford alone both of them are under arbitration control for 5 years.
Rockies shouldn’t have to buy them…they are giving up Nolan Arenado ffs.
Money matters. It’s Nolan and his bad contract.
Just like with the Stanton trade the simpletons don’t understand leverage, NTC and opt outs. Rockies are the clear winner just like the marlins clearly won the Stanton deal.
The difference is Nolan Arenado is highly productive and a low injury risk. Only a “simpleton” would compare the two. Mega deals typically don’t have surplus value. So the 50 MM kicked in helps the Cardinals in that aspect. A pretty good deal for them here.
Stanton had almost 300 million left on his dead lol. Cardinals just got Arenado below market value. You don’t think he is worth 150 mil??? This must be an owners burner account.
Deal**
The risk that Arenado falls off a cliff is obviously there. But it is for any player you sign to a deal like this. Could go bad—that’s the risk you take when you give out 7 figure deals. But they gave up B level prospects and only paid 150 or so million for the 2nd best defensive 3B in the game. Who typically swings it pretty well too.
Seems like a pretty good deal for both ends. For many years the Cardinals have been needing to deal from starting pitching to acquire somebody who can hit. Gotta love this. Woodford, and Gomber both can pitch. Rockies will have both of them under team control for half a decade at least? I could have seen both in crowded Cardinals rotation for years. With Arenado sure to Opt out after 2021 if he remained with the Rockies it made sense to get pitching while you still could. Wonder if Arenado stays with the Cardinals long term?
Well, I’m a Cards fan, but not one who has complained that Mo and DeWitt were ssoooooo lame this off-season like many on this board. To all of you who have been so bummed about the “do nothing Cardinals” enjoy! Arenado is a huge acquisition for the Red Birds! They just (likely) won the NL Central with this one move!
It’s not going all at once obviously. And if Arenado opts out next year, the Rockies will be free and clear. To me, the report that Arenado did NOT waive his opt out is the most interesting part of the trade. Watch out St Louis.
Lol he ain’t opting out. Be hilarious though. Opt out and then he can’t find that contract on the free market and all the marks here for Boras complain that baseball is broke.
Opt out and lose like Realmuto and Sprewell who turned down better deals than they signed
Meanwhile, the Los Angeles Angels continue to…………do nothing to bolster their subpar pitching staff.
This just in cardinals are still bad, what rotation relying on the corpse of wainwright and miles mikolas? Outside of arenado (who still needs to disprove coors effect) and goldy that lineup is bad. I expect arenado to opt out after 1 season of getting spanked by Braves, mets, padres and dodgers.
your bitterness is showing. Cardinal’s have pitching…. and plenty of it. their lineup is now one of the best in the N.L. No, I didn’t say THE best, I said ONE of the best. Your life so miserable you have to make things up in chats to troll? Every single team has holes, even those you just mentioned.
And that’s got to do with this deal how?
The Arenado deal is a sad betrayal of some very loyal fans by an ownership that is incapable of building a winning team.
Wish my gm made trades like this for icons like Matt Holliday, goldy, and now arenado. What a treat but I guess we get Hardee’s so there’s that.
Braves have made moves for shorter contract impact bats like Josh Donaldson, Ozuna, and… Markakis (eureka). Starting was locked up early in the offseason. They also locked up Albies and Acuna to long term deals and are back in a competitive position putting pennant banners in the rafters. There is plenty of room to play in the market every year the way the Braves are managing.
I still expected Atlanta to put another big contract or two in the books in the coming years. The team is not just now in 2021 what many of us thought would be its true playoff window either, meaning the last two years has worked out great.
Once the right deal presents itself, the franchise will make more splashes. Freddie will extend, the DH will likely be in the NL come 2022, and there is a deep Free Agent class next year. Look to more trades and a couple more signings this season with a possibility of a big trade. It’s a great time to be a Brave.I
Bold move by Saint Louis and others to move on the acquisition market, while society at large adapts to a changing economic settings. Arenado definitely improves their outlook.
Holy guacamole’
Awesome awesome awesome
wowza
Go big or go home!
Waste of money. They will regret this. He’s barely above league average outside of Coors.
You can’t win the GG every year by only being average on the road.
Isn’t that what the platinum gloves are for? The “only gold glove at home” guys?
I believe he’s talking about Arenado’s splits outside of Coors Field.
People always talk about the split…I will simply say look at Matt Holiday…and people quiet down
Clearly meaning offensively, the Coors Field effect.
Check out Larry Walker’s road record. Enough with the splits.
I feel like steroids also played a role in Larry Walkers numbers… so yeah he had his best years at Coors… I don’t think he can be used as a comp to players today because he pretty obviously was juiced up once he got to Col
Did YOU check out Walker’s splits?
1995: 80 points higher in BA, 40 points higher OBP, double HR at home
1996: 250 points higher BA, 230 points higher OBP, double HR at home
1997: 40 points higher BA, 20 points higher OBP, 9 fewer HR at home
1998: 110 points higher BA, 80 points higher OBP, triple the HR at home
1999: 180 points higher BA, 150 points higher OBP, double the HR at home
2000: 100 points higher BA, 75 points higher OBP, double the HR at home
2001: 110 points higher BA, 70 points higher OBP, 2 more HR at home
2002: 50 points higher BA, 70 points higher OBP, double HR at home
Literally the only season Walker had in Colorado where his road stats were remotely close to his home stats was 1997. It’s also the only year where his road stats reflected that of an All Star, let alone a HoFer. Awful funny that Walker was never thought to have such potential through age 28 with the Expos… but turned into a hitting god in that thin air. Without Coors Field, Larry Walker has to buy a ticket to get into Cooperstown just like the rest of us.
Now go check the splits of Helton, Bichette, Castilla, Tulo, CarGo. There’s a reason all but Helton performed far worse when not wearing a Rockies uniform. The only reason Helton didn’t is because he was too intelligent to leave. In fact, the only player to leave Colorado and not have a significant reduction in offensive production has been LeMahieu. Even Holliday fell from being the next Larry Walker to a mere Magglio Ordonez with less power.
Every single former Rockie not named LeMahieu, performed equal to OR BELOW his road stats after leaving Colorado. Why should we expect Arenado to be any different? He doesn’t have the same set of tools, ability, and approach that DJL does, As such, he doesn’t have the same likelihood of holding up.
Nolan should still fair well, but the odds are against him hitting at an All Star level outside of Colorado.
It’s true that almost every player for the Rockies has severe home/road splits. This is due to the fact that breaking balls break less and balls fly further in Colorado than in any other park. Colorado players play half their games there, and it is hard to adjust to the differences in pitch movement on the road, less balls fall in for hits (smaller fields than the massive Coors), and less homeruns are hit due to the ball not flying out as easy.
While I wouldn’t expect Arenado to achieve his same stat line in STL, I would expect his WRC+ to be similar due to this stat being adjusted for park factors. When players move from Colorado elsewhere, they aren’t subjected to these extreme park effects half the time, and their splits become much less pronounced.
Andres Gallaraga
With no one to protect Arenado, he may hit with bases empty, but he will walk if the batter behind him sucks. Arenado will get irritated and start chasing pitches and the average goes down.
You could argue that Yankee stadium is as much a hitters paradise as Coors field when looking at DJL’s stats.
What about DJ Lemahieu?
Same, he sucks outside Coors also… don’t you watch baseball?!
That’s what I mean. Players sometimes become better once they leave Coors
Name 3 besides DJL.
holliday
pierre
fowler
I probably shouldn’t have said much better but Dexter Fowler, Matt Holliday, and Andres Galarraga are examples are 3 players that I can name off the top of my head that did just fine after they left the Rockies
Matt holiday and DJ are all that is needed…that’s all I heard when the cardinals signed Holiday….the splits blah blah…Holiday is one of the best hitters to put on the cardinals uniform and that says a lot
Well Larry Walker was equally good everywhere he played. Numbers similar to expos. Just off top of my head. Not a rockies guy though
Matt Holliday, Larry Walker, Corey Dickerson. Walker is more of a “continued to mash” rather than got better, but these three all hit the crap out of the ball after leaving Colorado.
All three of those players had their best years in Colorado. They were good when they left but not nearly as good. Big Cat hit .370 one year at Coors Field. Fowler has been an average player his whole career. His strength is getting on base and scoring runs. Holliday was a solid player after he left put up solid numbers in STL
No he wasn’t as good. Larry Walker never came close to hitting .370 with 49HRS and 130 RBI in an Expos uniform. That’s a fail bro.
All their best years were in Colorado. You need to look up Walker’s numbers before you post bro
Not seeing anyone being better listed. Maybe slightly with cherry picking the young player and late bloomer. Mostly not as good. Some close to being the same. I don’t hate Nolan. Just coors is best case scenario. Batting average is likely to go down. Fans look at the players leaving. Baseball people look at visiting players. Research whoever you want. Buster Cody Goldy… Players hit better at coors. Doesn’t mean coors players can’t hit elsewhere. To expect to be better outside of coors is too much to ask.
Right about Walker.
Andres Gallaraga – 126 OPS+ in Col., 141 OPS+ in Atl.
Ellis Burks – 128 OPS+ in Col., 151 OPS+ in SF
Matt Holiday – 131 OPS+ in Col., 138 OPS+ in StL.
Ellis Burks had a year in Colorado when he hit .344 40 HRS 120RBIs 40 2Bs and 142 runs scored. Just saying.
MrMet:
Do you not understand OPS+? That year in Col., 1996, he had an OPS+ of 149.
In 2000, he hit .344/.409/.606 with 31 HRs in SF for an OPS+ of 163.
Plus, that RBI stat is not a reliable. It depended too much on players getting on base in front of Burks.
Also I don’t know if its fair to compare The Big Cat two years in Atlanta to five HOF level seasons in Colorado. But I understand your point he and Burks were still hitting a high level on other teams although their best years were still in Colorado.
Give me a list of players who declined (park adjusted) after leaving Coors. The only one I can think of is Tulowitski, and he started sucking before the Rockies traded him.
Vinny Castilla, Brad Hawpe and Garrett Atkins comes to mind off the top of my head. A lot of their sluggers usually finish their careers in Colorado or play there well into their 30s.
@JK Wrong, wrong… and wrong.
You mean the guy who went to the other little league park and still has some pretty drastic splits?
To be fair, DJ has some pretty skewed stats (power wise) at home vs away in 2020 and 2019.
This. I think NY is much worse. Forget DJLM, Aaron Judge has the worst home/road splits I’ve ever seen. 3x to 4x more dramatic than Arenado. No one says he sucks.
They’re getting an extra year as well. That’s only because he injures himself every time he plays on the road.
Judge is injury prone and thus, unreliable.
Lemahieu was pitched to because of the Yankees line up, go look who batted after Lemahieu.
Limited sample but he always did good at Busch. If he puts up 950 ops then the coors theory is done. I think he will be 850.
Trying to distinguish the between Busch and Coors is frankly a watered down conversation when you could just be drinking’ a quality microbrew.
Arenado is a career .263/.322/.471 hitter outside of Coors Field. That is quite a bit worse than his career averages but still significantly above league average. Besides, those numbers will likely go up once he adjusts to playing almost all his games away from Coors.
Besides, that’s not even considering his great defense.
And those numbers count his first couple of years as a young guy acclimating to MLB… his road splits 2017-20 are much better.. I believe 846 ops and a 36hr 103rbi 162 game average… but people love to look at the full career to make a point.. if his shoulder is healthy, he’s a beast, and may be the best defender in the game.. mad my Mets didn’t get him
I’m not. Arenado might’ve flopped in NY. No media pressure in Denver
Players do not care about “media pressure”. This is a dumb myth New Yorkers invented to make themselves feel more important than they are.
Then why do All Stars have great careers in small markets and then come to NY and flop. It’s a totally different environment bro especially when it comes to baseball. Have you ever heard of Jason Bay, Jeff Kent, Jack McDowell, Kenny Rogers, Terry Muholland, Carlos Baerga, Randy Johnson, Sonny Gray, Jacoby Ellsbury,Edwin Diaz, Roberto Alomar. It’s a little more than a myth I’m afraid.
So older players go to New York and aren’t as good as when they were younger? I’m shocked! SHOCKED!
Also Edwin Diaz was great last year, what are you talking about?
Diaz was great in 2020 after they took his ass out of the closers role. He’s been garbage as a Met he and Familla kept them out the postseaon in 2019.
Every team has made trades where the players they got weren’t as good anymore, you act like that’s some sort of unique phenomenon that only NY teams have to deal with.
It’s mostly just a myth. Arenado will be fine wherever he plays.
A .799 OPS is significantly above average? Wtf? But yes the platinum glove at 3B is awfully tempting
That isn’t significantly above average. MLB average is around .780. He has a career 108 wRC+ on the road, that means his is 8% above average. His career wRC+ is 128, I think. So he is only 80% the player on the road as he is at home.
One can get too caught up in numbers as well. I look at it this way, great players (Arenado, Holliday, DJL, etc) are simply that. We can try to say it’s small stadium, Coors stadium, or whatever other factor we believe plays into their hitting. But, it’s simply great hitting, otherwise many other players would mirror their numbers, and they cannot do it.
It’s almost as though MOST players have better home numbers than road numbers.
Mike Trout
Home: .284/.450/.656
Road: .298/.428/.635
Mookie Betts
Home: .314/.408/.977
Road: .275/.373/.853
Freddie Freeman
Home: .276/.368/.552
Road: .313/.419/.547
Francisco Lindor
Home: .289/.349/.513
Road: .280/.322/.523
Cody Bellinger
Home: .304/.402/.650
Road: .306/.410/.608
Christian Yelich
Home: .347/.451/.750
Road: .312/.409/.597
Anthony Rizzo
Home: .354/.459/.571
Road: .233/.351/.469
Xander Bogaerts
Home: .337/.409/.592
Road: .282/.359/.518
These are 2019 numbers for these players. There are exceptions but generally speaking, players are better at home than on the road. Colorado is certainly going to lead to larger home road splits than other parks I imagine but we make to much out of it.
Whoa! Rizzo is huge!
Keep in mind this is just one season. Takes about 3 to see any statistic trend
It IS multiple data points, though, so you can develop a hypothesis. If you feel my examples are misleading than please feel free to post opposing evidence to the contrary. Not intending to be snarky with that last comment.
If you don’t cherry pick stats most players splits are fairly close. If you play at home in Colorado Boston Milwaukee etc you will usually see a big difference. Works the other way as well though not as drastically. But look at Yelich splits from Miami, much better road splits. A short porch in ny will boost your hr numbers. The green monster in Boston is great for your batting average and doubles.
Your numbers at home should be better. Usually are. Some ball parks just really inflate numbers for most players. A coors hr is legit. Its the giant outfield that boost batting averages and triples. Nolan could hit 30 40 hrs anywhere.
@YourDreamGM. What you call cherry picking I call examples for my argument. What are you even disagreeing with when you say yourself “Your numbers at home should be better. Usually are.”? Especially when I am not arguing about differences but rather degrees. But hey, if you would like to demonstrate statistically that I’m wrong, I welcome it.
Trout Lindor Bellinger are fine examples. Rest of your examples are cherry picked or simply not the best examples to use. Why not look at freeman’s entire career? What not bryant or baez instead of rizzo? Yelich hit better on the road. Brewers seen this and how his swing fits perfect for their park and acquired him. How about devers a left handed hitter in Boston instead of two righties. Let’s wait and see mookies splits in 2021 2022, might be closer not bashing balls off the green monster. Not that his are as far apart as bogarts. Just saying some of your choices are obvious to why their home numbers are better.
But yes players generally should be better at home. If it’s possible you try to draft and certainly sign free agents whose game fits your ball park and division. There are mysteries though like rizzo. My wild guess is he doesn’t sleep well on the road. Stanton, maybe just a fluke or less pressure on the road. Judge, I can’t even take a wild guess. I know with bogarts though it’s the giant wall in left field.
Undoubtedly players overall hit better at home than they do on the road. They have their routines, familiar surroundings, equipment, the crowd, etc. Coors, however, is the only ballpark in MLB in which visitor OPS increases.
Compare Arenado’s home v road splits for his career:
HOME: .322/.376/.609
AWAY: .263/.322/.471
That’s not one season of cherry-picked numbers, it’s his career – 4555 PAs.
He is a talented player, a great defender. He will likely put up solid, acceptable offensive numbers, but his slash line is going to take a dive. I would project him at .270 with 25 HR and 90 RBI and a GG. He may outperform that.
Prospects going back don’t matter, Rox won’t start them anyway
They will if they’re 30 and not very good defensively
Which all-star and MVP caliber players can you think of that WEREN’T prospects?
SalaryCapMyth:
Actually, there’s a rather lengthy list of guys that made the AS team that were never a top 100 prospect. Well maybe rather lengthy is an exaggeration, but there are a number of them.
JD Martinez
Jose Ramirez
DJ LeMahieu
Josh Donaldson
Jacob deGrom
Kyle Hendricks
Paul Goldschmidt
Justin Turner
Luis Castillo
Brandon Crawford.
To name a few. Not sure all were ever on an All-star team though.
Pujols
You misunderstood what I said. The point I was making was that ALL all-star and MVP caliber players were at some point prospects and had nothing to do with a top 100 prospect list. I never said anything about top prospects.
Well damn
Cardinals obviously scared after the Cubs picked up Pederson. Had to make a move.
Ha
So true!
No way that had anything to do with this signing smh
Well it sure as hell wasn’t because of any moves the Pirates made!
Duck! Something’s going right over your head!
Oh yeah so scared of a career .230 hitter and .190 last year
Surprise. Someone in the Central is trying win.
Please tell me the Rockies at least took away their pitching prospects
For $50mil I’d bet Gorman and Liberatore could be involved. At least one of them should be in the return
Definitely not both
Whoa, surprising. Wonder what will happen with the opt out? Does he waive it? Are there PTBNL based on if he stays or opts out?
SOL
If the Rox are sending $50 million he must’ve waived the opt-out.
The cards won’t get the 50 million if he opts out. It will be spread throughout the length of the contract. So he may or may not have edited the contract.
Even if he plays well, he’ll probably opt in just to spite the Rockies and leave them on the hook for 50 sticks..
Well he’s already getting paid 38 million or something like that so how much better could it get?
Whoa! It actually got done.
I know the Rockies didn’t want to deal within their division but Arenado would have been great in SF. Move Longoria, some prospects and have the Rox send cash the last 2 years of Arenados contract. Done.
And I’m sure Nolan would have preferred California to Missouri.
As much as I would like to agree, no he doesn’t fit. In order to acquire him it would be a lot of money and I don’t even think Longo’s horrendous contract would cover it. They would have to definitely pay off part of the contract. I feel like we would have to give too much in terms of prospects and we would regret it in the future
The Giants can clear $95.4 million off the books after this season, the payroll will not be an issue, but yes to keep him in the division would have cost the Giants a lot of prospects. I am glad to see him out of the division though, pretty sure every top defensive highlight he’s ever had was against the Giants haha
Arenado has hit .291/.354/.556 with 31 homers and 104 RBI in 132 games against the Giants. And that doesn’t cover the vacuum he has on his glove hand.
The Giants probably win 2 more games next season with him leaving the division.
“And I’m sure Nolan would have preferred California to Missouri.”
If this were true, Arenado would be heading to the west coast, he didn’t waive his no trade clause to go somewhere he doesn’t want to be lolol
I’m sure Nolan cares more about winning, and the Giants are years away from that at this point.
California’s top state income tax rate is 13.3%, while the highest state income tax rate in Missouri is 5.4%. Not only does Arenado get a legit shot at winning a division, he gets to pocket a few mil extra dollars playing for the Cards.
SF is a disgusting open sewer anyway. So is LA where I have family. California has really declined in the last decade.
LETS GOOO
Wow good move… Him and Goldy are a great 3-4
But that all no offense outside of the Arenado and goldy
I think he’ll be well above league average for the Cards. But Busch tends to favor pitchers. Don’t think you’ll see 40 HRs again. But great move. Worries me as a Cub fan.
Busch is pretty neutral. Nolan won’t have Coors anymore, but he won’t have most of his road games in those big NL West parks, either.
He hit well everywhere but LA.
La pitching, defense, and large park have a lot to do with his average, There are a lot of players that don’t hit very well in La stadium.
Exactly, Cincy, Wrigley, Milwaukee, and Pittsburgh aren’t exactly pitchers parks.
That’s why Arenado has sub .250 BA and sub .300 OBP in both Wrigley and PNC, right?
He’ll be playing plenty of games in Wrigley, Miller Park, and Cincy. Plenty of home runs to be had.
Wrigley doesn’t belong with those other 2 stadiums. It is historically neutral.
Do the cards think they are contenders? Ignore the Mets for a second this isn’t about them. But this doesn’t even put them close or dodgers or Braves.even Padres are still better.
All they have to do is be better than CIN, PIT, CHI and MIL. After that, it’s a crap shoot
You’re completely right. I take it back. Playoffs is great bc anyone could win.
Especially when you have 200′ infield fly’s working in your favor…
Ah. A bitter Braves fan as entered the convo
Braves lost because they don’t run base well and their defense sucks. They got beat by a better team, and the Braves won the division because everyone else sucked.
Make the playoffs and anything can happen (the 2006 Cardinals are a great example). The Central is ripe for the taking.
True. I changed my mind.
Doesnt put them close to those teams on paper. Long season. Injuries happen, players slump. Being good on paper doesnt usually win the world series. Just have to make the playoffs and be hot.
You’re completely right.
They’re better than the Mets 😀
I wouldn’t say that. (On paper) But they’ll probably make the playoffs.
You’re an idiot.
Wow. Guess somebody in the Cards’ front office saw all the comments about them being dormant this off season and decided they needed to get some stuff done. Or maybe they were just patient and doing a really good job. Never doubt that this is the best run franchise in the sport.
I doubt
Yet they missed all the comments about not wanting this below 800 ops over rated coors product.
Of course now the cards fans will be thrilled and tell us how they locked up the central and are serious contenders and Nolan is now great with 200 higher ops.
He’s a great player in any park. Deal with it.
No way man. He is trash. Only good in Colorado. Everywhere else he stinks.
Who did we lose,I wonder
Good job AA! Killing in it!…Go Braves!
That’s a lot of cash to change hands. The union is okay with that? Rockies are so smrt.
As long as Black is managing the Rockies it won’t matter if they send the best prospects to the Rockies. Bud Black will run Ian Desmond and resign Cargo.
Managers don’t sign players.
Cards just won the Central
Particularly if the Brewers follow up by trading Hader.
I wonder if Gorman is going back to COL
$50 mil sounds like enough for a top guy
It doesn’t look like the Cards gave up anything either… such a great move by the Cards as it stands…
That’s what people said when Yankees acquired Stanton. When a mid market franchise gets rid of nearly 200 million in salary they win the deal regardless of return, every. Single. Time. Money is king
Good for STL. They found a way.
Braves should go get Charlie Blackman !
Story. He’s a free agent at the end of the year, but is a much better player than Blackmon. I’d rather trade for Story and possibly sign Ozuna.
You really think AA would get both ???
Come on you know better than that
Now the Cards passes us up too
What a shame we were right there
They’re not in the same division, so they can’t pass us. Story, not Blackmon, should be the target, imho. Everything will be alright.
What’s your problem? As it stands right now the braves are the clear winners of the offseason. They’ve avoided all the landmines of the offseason. Landmines are muti year contracts. Those are always bad, way too much risk. Fans don’t even know how to cheer for their favourite team anymore. They suggest moves that are actually bad for the team and make it harder to win, it’s very odd.
Why Charlie Blackman sucks defensively, offensively, salary, and his age.
It will be unpopular for a couple of years but its probably a smart move. Get a bunch of prospects and get out from under that contract. They can now resign Story. Five years from now I think this will be seen as a great move by the Rocks.
They’d be better of trading him too. Signing him puts them right back in the position they’re in now.
I’m pretty sure this means that they will not be signing Story, but for fans sake I hope I’m wrong.
Do you think Story will resign in Colorado who is going to rebuild and won’t be a contender for the next decade?
Arenado for a bag of peanuts
A sad day for baseball!
Why exactly?
Just the opposite actually
And no Gorman, liberatore, or Carlson in the deal. Thank god.
wow. so German Marquez to the Angels seems possible now. Story could be next as well….
I’m not sure I’d be confident to say the Cardinals are contenders. I find more talent on the Rockies team with Blackmon, Story, Marquez, McMahon, etc. Arenado must have just been really pissed at the Colorado heads.
The cards made the playoffs last year, and do almost every year. So I would say they are contenders. You think those players you mentioned are better than the cards talent. I think stats say otherwise
They do somehow always find a way, lol. I hope he does succeed and prove he doesn’t need Colorado’s home field advantage like LeMahieu has done.
In the NL Central, they are certaintly a contender. The Cubs are starting a rebuild, the Pirates have been in a rebuild, the Reds haven’t really done anything major and have been speculated to sell more than buy and the Brewers also haven’t done anything after finishing below .500 last year.
Yes, very good point mlb1225. Now is the time to make the splash!
This cannot possibly be a real take can it? The Rockies are HORRIBLE without Arenado, they couldn’t even win with him
You seem to be ignoring the pitching side of the equation, where the Rockies can’t hold a candle to the amount of talent the Cardinals have.
Now ATL needs to go after Story and COL gets the prospects they need and triggers a rebuild.
It seems like they at least SHOULD trade him since they traded Arenado. What’s the point of keeping Story for his last season of control since they aren’t going to compete?
@RunDMC – There would have to be an ask for Swanson in that Story deal to Atlanta and of course 2 of the 5 prospect outfielders and 1 or 2 50 or 55 rating pitching prospects. I would also think that that sort of deal would be a 2 for 1 special by including Blackmon or Jon Gray.
Why would dealing Swanson have to be an ask? They have the prospects to pull off the deal and ask one to play another position. if you can play SS, you can play anywhere besides C and P. ATL gets the mid-order bat and could still bring back Ozuna or another or play Riley in LF.
Story is a rental. He’ll be expensive but not THAT expensive. Even Betts only cost the Dodgers 2 top 100 prospects.
Based on what the Indians got for a year of Lindor, I doubt the Braves would have to give up all of that.
Where do these people come up with the value of these players? Do they even watch baseball outside of their own team? If you’re saying to yourself every trade in the offseason “that’s it” then you have no idea what the value of any player is.
19 Gold Gloves for the Cardinals this week. 0 stolen bases.
Assuming Molina resigns soon, that’s actually pretty accurate (Molina – 9, Arenado – 8, Wainwright – 2). Don’t forget that Molina and Arenado each have 4 Platinum Gloves (8 together), as well.
However, Molina actually swipes a decent number of bases (relatively speaking) despite his lack of speed, although I’m not sure if he can still keep that up at his age.
You forgot that Goldschmidt also have 3 GG on his mantle. I wish the Cardinals also sign Wong, but that will be a dream it seems like now. That will be 1 killer defense.
Sure, but he/she was talking about the players being added this week. Bader, DeJong, and Carlson could possibly see some Gold Gloves in their future, as well.
Joke of an organization that I placed my faith in all these years
They’re retooling. Dodgers and Padres are beasts, so they’re using their best asset to get better. The return package is what is going to be of interest.
Retooling without a plan is no fun. We should be trading Story not our best player in franchise history – solely because of money.
So much for everyone thinking the Cards weren’t going to do anything…
So much for being a rumor. 50 million will bring back a good haul you would think.
Kudos to the Cards. Wow that is an infield. Re-acquire Wong and they have had a great off season!
I don’t think they have room (positionally or financially) for Wong with this move. They’ll probably just resign Molina and call it an offseason save for an additional minor league signing or two.
Gorman, Woodford are center pieces that’s why Colorado though in the extra $$’s.
Woodford may go in this deal but Gorman will not. He is insurance in case Arenado opts out and they can’t re sign him.
Great move,best 3b in the game.Future HOFer.He will kill those central division stadiums.Sf,LA& SD all are considered pitchers yards.Another SoCal kid raking and cashing cks.
Yes he will. He’s a dominant player and will be fine away from Coors.
Checkmate! They are the nl central team getting swept out of the playoffs
How many years remaining on Arenado’s contract?
6. But he has an option after next year.
Word is he’s getting a 2nd opt out in 2022 with this deal, per Ken Rosenthal
Rockies get Austin Gomber, Luken Baker, Jhon Torres
it’ll be more then that with how much they are sending over in salery
Lol…top prospects are involved.
@Nuck – Torres is the best one but there’s a difference between the player development staffs in Colorado’s organization than the Cardinals’ organization.
If the 50M is over the life of the contract, might it change significantly if he opts out? Over the life of the deal that still leaves a lot of salary commitment on the Cardinals.
Arenado needs to waive his no trade and his opt out for the deal to be done
Yeah there has to be safeguards in there for the opt-out right? If they sent $50M to STL and then he opted out that would make no sense for COL
It’s not a lump sum. Little each year.
@CNichols – they’re probably thinking about Arenado choosing to opt out. The $50 million does cover the particulars of the contract as security. If they do work it out, does it affect his free agency and how the Cardinals could receive compensation for signing with another team?
When the Yankees traded for A-Rod, Texas was sending $67MM of the $179MM A-Rod was still owed. When A-Rod opted out, the Yankees lost about $21M of the remaining installment payments. I say lost because the Yankees extended him and Texas was off the hook.
Confused on many fronts with this one…. I know the cardinals see the division as very winnable but compare them to the top teams of the NL and they’re a joke. Rockies just shipped off their superstar with a $50 million dollar kicker…. OUCH. And not that I put much into it because I get the change of scenery and not being comfortable can cause this but Nolan’s Home/Road splits are not very good at all
Just because other teams improved drastically doesnt mean the cards should give up. They beat a much better Braves team 2 years ago in the playoffs. Just goes to show that the best team on paper doesnt always win it all.
If there was 1 other team then sure. But there is many others…. And the cardinals aren’t some youth movement team coming up the ranks… the team is getting older and going the other way…
So they should give up? Rebuild just because other teams improved? Blow it up? I can appreciate them trying, while also appealing to the fans. You say they are getting older and I disagree. Fowler, Carp, miller, yadi(if he signs) and wainwright will all be gone next year. Besides goldy and arenado who is old. Oneill, bader, carlson, edman, dejong, knizer, flaherty, hudson, hicks….I mean who?
They don’t have to beat all of them. That’s not how the playoffs work.
The Cardinals still have plenty of youth on their pitching staff and in a few position players like DeJong, Bader, and Carlson. Meanwhile, some expensive older players (Carpenter, Fowler, and Andrew Miller) are off the books after next year.
Did he agree to not exercise his opt-out after 2021 as part of this? That’s always seemed like the biggest hurdle to trading him.
I would assume. Don’t think Rockies pay for two years unless he pushed back at least one year
Hello favorites of the NL Central. And certainly no ceiling on how far they can go in the playoffs. Bye bye cub fans!
Round 1.
I love how happy you are to have the best team in a horrible division. It’s just embarrassing at this point
and your happy your team could have simply brought in a serviceable SP to perhaps be the favorite and didnt even do that?
My team is the white Sox.
oh so not a Cubs fan. hard to tell ya know.
Remember two teams in Chicago, I don’t exactly hate the Cubs but I’m a realist with them, I’m a homer for the Sox
The amount of rent they have in your head cannot be very healthy.
go figure
Being a Rockies fan just continues to be frustrating. The team squandered the best years of Blackmon, Arenado and Story with poor free agent signings and an unwillingness to put in the effort to win. Now Story will be dealt mid-season and they’ll start all over again only to do the very same thing with the next core. Bridich has no business being in that role but ownership has it good with a ballpark that stays pretty full despite the embarrassing product on the field. The fans suffer for it but the brass just doesn’t care. So disheartening
I feel for you Rockies fans. I have no idea which direction the club has been heading for the past decade or so. The Arenado-Bridich debacle was the icing on the cake. I don’t even know how the brass allowed it to become public since no one wins. For $50m, you can spend well on draft picks and int’l signings on lottery tickets. Too bad Arenado already had one foot out the door.
Yeah, sorry. I’d be disappointed in them too.
big if true
Some history of COL guys going to STL…
STL seems like one of the best run organizations in the league. They are competitive from year to year, they invest in quality players and never stuck themselves with a dead weight contract, like Pujols. Before this, they had only two players on the payroll beyond 2023 for only $28M in commitments. Arenado is still very much a franchise player, plus getting that cash covers STL for decline in his age 34-35 seasons, this was a robbery no matter what any of those prospects do.
Goldy and Mikolas combine to make $43M per year.
Matt carpenter, Carlos Martinez, dexter Fowler, Those are all dead weight contracts. Mozalok is an idiot and while this seems awesome on paper, he probably got fleeced here, like every other move he’s made. I love Arenado, but this deal makes me think his Bhutto last year is bigger than we know.
Martinez’s contract is still good if he can make it back into the rotation (and not terrible if he’s just a quality setup man), and while Fowler is overpaid he’s still a decent player and not dead weight at all.
Wow! Rox ate alot of cabbage, surely some high ceiling type prospects coming back. At the 149 over 6 thats a solid deal. Lets say yes coors numbers are what they are but if they get him at Scott Rolen type numbers they’re pumped. Glove plays everywhere and if he puts up .275 30 and 100 with that glove, hard to compain about that trade for the birds.
How didn’t the Braves make this deal. We have 20 outfield prospects yet don’t want to trade any of them.
What they took on of Arenado is essentially Freeman’s extension – as there have been rumors that Goldy’s extension provides framework for a Freeman extension. It’s not the players given up – though that list hasn’t been confirmed yet – ATL could part with those, though they have lower depth issues (in part, because of the sanctions), but it’s the dollars/risk involved.
Unless the Cardinals make other moves I don’t see how Arenado alone pushes them to the top.
Top of what? The were arguably already top of the division with Darvish and Bauer gone from Chicago and Cincy.
Also Iglesias, Archie Bradley, Jameson Taillon, Josh Bell. Other central teams got weaker or stood pat.
Dbacks need to trade for Charlie Blackman as they need a CF.
Blackmon doesn’t play CF anymore.
Blackmon doesn’t play CF anymore.
If what I heard was true. Mo stole him. Colorado gets Gomber and Baker
This is a pathetic move by the Rockies. They should have just traded Arenado a couple years back and received a stronger return instead of giving their fans the facade that they were committed to keeping him long term
That’s what all mid markets should be doing. Keeping the star player never works out for these franchises. Fans should want the star player traded too if they want the team to win but they don’t even know how to be fans properly.
I think he signed a 6yr $199 mm so, 5 years left?
His deal was an 8 year $260 million extension
And the cardinals still won’t matter. Does nothing for them tbh. Not like the moves they’ve made will push them passed the big 3 of the NL.
Idiot. You win the division and each series is basically a coin flip. If nobody tried to win unless they were a guaranteed top-3 team on paper, the whole league would fold.
Never watched much playoff baseball huh?
Time to trade Story. Why stop now?
@beyou – they’re okay with keeping Story so that their infield is McMahon, Story, Hampson and Rodgers.
Depending on who’s going to Colorado, the following lineup isn’t bad:
Edman
Carlson
Goldschmidt
Arenado
DeJong
Fowler
Molina? (or currently Knizner)
Bader
Pitcher (assuming no DH at this point)
Rockies still pay 50mm??? What is going on here?
Thr Cards did nothing all Winter. They resign Wainwright then are handed Arenado with 50 million toward his salary. That’s how badly The Rockies wanted to unload him! Have not seen what Stl gave up yet. Guessing it’s not a ton.
Damn, gonna miss seeing this dude compete in the NL west. He was fun to watch! Great fit though for the Cards
It’s horrible that the Yankees can’t find a taker for Stanton by sending most of his salary away. Cashman so over rated.
Person with biggest smile: Justin Turner. Unless you want Rios at third full time, the Dodgers better sign him again.
STL is going to pay…
With mid level prospects…..whoop de do
Which ones?
Looks like the Rockies paid.
Don’t get over excited. His home/away splits are bad. Goldschmidt didn’t turn out as hoped. You’re welcome for taking Pujols out of your hands. Luckily this is his last year of contract. No playoff wins in his first 9 years. I was fine with the contract beforehand believing we would get some playoff wins but that didn’t happen.
Goldschmidts numbers last year were awesome. His numbers in 2019 were down but still not terrible.
52 runs and rbis in 58 games. Not awesome. It’s about scoring runs and he didn’t generate a run a game. only 6 home runs.
It’s a good day when Baseball City USA gets a stud like Arenado.
I don’t see the return hurting the Cards too much with the 2 opt outs and taking on 3/4s the contract. Gomber is the only name I’ve seen so far.
How does Rockies front office keep their jobs after this disaster. A deal recently signed that’s already $50,000,000 wrong…
Buying prospects…….if its a rebuild coming this is a great use of capital to kick start it
Would you rather have Springer for 150 million over 6 years or Arenado for 150 million over 6 years (plus 3 non-top prospects subtracted from your farm system)?
George 31. Nolan 30.
Nolan easily but they wont be non prospects but Still Nolan
As a Jays fan, Nolan. Quite easily. Better defense, won’t need to move off the position, offensive drop off leaving Coors is overstated.
Yes, because it didn’t hurt Holiday and hasn’t done so for LeMahieu, though he is in yet another very hitter friendly environment.
Springer is money in big games. So many wilt under pressure.
Nolan and it isn’t particularly close.
Wonder if Blackman was involved if that much cash is going to St Louis….
Excited to see the package, this is pretty damn innovative sending 50 mill
I had Nolans 5/164 left after this year- about 15 mill in the red from my proj 5/150
Lets see what 35 mill of prospects looks like……….Big fan of this route by Col. Should be a haul, wonder if they go mlb ready or AA players or a sprinkle of both
Im guessing Fowler and Carp both said No to being included in a trade and thats why we are seeing this 50 burger
If Nolan opts out do the Rockies still have to pay?
No
wow….go Cards. I’m a Arenado fan too
So this puts noodle arm Carpenter back to second right?
Rockies better get Gorman or Carlson back in return
No chance of Carlson going to Colorado.
Edman at 2B.
Holy crap. Take that Mozelak haters
I’m guessing if the Rockies are willing to eat 50 million, I’d assume they’re getting a whole lot back. Major league ready players included. Without a doubt… or this is the worst gm in baseball. Period. Rockies should be getting back a really nice haul.
Rockies don’t need MLB ready players, they need high upside players. They are in total rebuild
If I can get a young player under 5-6 years of control, included, why not.
It is kind of like this. If I told you, you were moving to Florida. You could go out and buy a thick winter coat, but what would be the point when a bathing suit is available?
I understand your point. Rockies due for a complete rebuild. But if that’s your true goal, I could care less if one of those assets I acquire is a ready big leaguer. For three years you’re paying them minimum salary. Those players have tons of value, even on under performing teams. And it may not take the Rockies a decade to rebuild, they may be ready in 3-4-5. It’s baseball. I don’t know.
I wouldn’t assume that. I think the BIG 3 cards prospects are safe and keeping them and gaining Arenado would be quite a coup for the redbirds.
So much for Pads Fans aka Koamalu’s theory that Nolan would waive his opt out as part of a trade. Not only did he do nothing of the kind, he got a second opt-out added.
I guess this is the Cardinals’ response to the Brewers’ huge acquisitions of Daniel Robertson and Jace Peterson..
I still see him eventually becoming a Dodger.
I hate seeing one of my favorite players go to one of my least favorite teams. Bad feeling.
So with the recent big dollar signings and acquisitions, I have one question:
What do the owners know that the fans don’t?
The owners know quite a bit more than the fans. What gives you the impression the average fan knows anything when it comes to running a MLB team or the financial health of MLB as a pro sports league?
Damn, who pissed on your cornflakes?
Probably their teams’ budgets
My point is, teams have gone from “we lost too much money” to “let’s spend like drunken sailors.”
He’s right. The favs don’t know anything. It’s why after every trade like this there’s one side of the fanbase that is mad as hell saying that’s it! They have no idea about the value of players, how to build a winning team.
Put Carlson in the 2 hole in front of Arenado and Goldy. Could be a great 2, 3, 4. Get the kid some fast balls.
Yes, but it’ll Goldy 3rd and Arenado at clean up, since the former gets on base more, while the latter has more power.
Whaturmomsaid
Looks like he waived his no trade by leveraging an extra opt out after 22. smart little leverage by Nolan there
I would be a little worried about that if I were the cardinals. Guess they’re banking on making him happy while he’s there!
Yea but even so they’d probably get the best 2 yrs then and miss the worst 2 –
Not worst case for cards just thought it was savvy by Nolan
I expect him to play the full 6 tho then make a swan song out in Socal one day when hes on his last legs as possibly a DH
Why do people keep putting him in southern california? I think that’s a pie in the sky longshot!
More smart move by the Cardinals. Arenado doesn’t want to compete with next years FA class. The cardinals get $50m with him and still have Gorman who is on pace for 2023. Cards hope Arenado opts out and Gorman takes over and the cards got two years of Arenado for almost free.
If Arenado doesn’t opt out after 2022, this ends up being a mother terrible move Mo who is easily one of the worst 5 PBOs in the league. So we already know what will happen.
Define free. Cuz there are players going to Colorado in this thing so it’s not going to be close to FREE.
Obviously Coor’s Field is a MUCH better hitters park than Busch Stadium but the bulk of his road games will be played in the hitter friendly NL Central ballparks as opposed to the pitcher friendly NL West ballparks.
That escalated quickly!
Cardinals love these splashy moves. McGwire, Goldschmidt, Arenado…see the pattern. Good for them! I do feel bad for ROX fans, Arenado was their guy, total fan favorite! Cardinals will like this guy, those corner infielders can bang with anyone. Interested to see the return here…..
Why would anyone feel bad for them? They got rid of a albatross contract that prevented them from winning now and in the future. Fans much like people who vote in democracy’s don’t even know what to vote or cheer for that will benefit themselves or team.
I don’t think getting rid of their best player simply because of the contract suddenly makes them a contender in the years to come. Rockies rarely spend to compete and when they do, they get burned. This is going to be a total tear down and a very prolonged rebuild and I feel sorry for any fanbase that has to go through that.
Well dern…. I was hoping the Braves get him. The return better be unreal to eat $50 mil of his contract. Must be some serious prospects.
On that note, the entire NL seems to be getting better (minus the Rockies) and right now the Braves are significantly worse off than they were last year. Y’all better make some moves on offense bravos! Let’s gooooooo!!!
Could you now package Gorman/Bader or Gorman/O’Neill for an outfield bat. Gorman was reported as an end of the year call up after an impressive summer. You have several other 3B’s coming up behind him.
Cards Prospect Rankings(from mlb.com/prospects1500.com): Torres(#9/#13) Rondon(#13/#16) Baker(#23/#27) Woodford(NR/#24)
Somewhere AJ Preller is jealous and wondering why he couldn’t get this done himself. It’ll be OK prell-man.
Yeah, even AJ would have to recognize adding Arenado on top of Machado’s contract to form a $65M AAV 3B’man might not be a wise investment.
LOL good point, although he does like to throw caution to the wind and make a big ole trade! He plays with monopoly money, we all know that!
wow, crazy offseason
Nolan could finish in the Top 3 of the NL MVP this year and still would be dumb to opt of his contract. He’s being paid just about as much as Rendon and no team is going to offer him a 5+ year deal @ $35M+ at age 31. He’s going to be a Cardinal for the rest of his contract; St. Louis had better hope he doesn’t decline too much over the next 5 years. Even with Colorado covering $10M/yr, this is still a risky deal for St. Louis. Don’t expect the Rox to get a haul back in return. They’ll get one good prospect and some fillers on top of that.
Still has 6 years remaining on his current deal.
*Now 7
Looks like they are getting a bunch of good players from the Cards.
Gomber will plug right in the rotation as a 3 or better.
Woodford will go to the pen and be decent,.
Torres has huge upside and is a year away or less.
Baker is a doubles machine in minor league pitchers parks. and is intriguing.
According to CBS Sports the package is
Austin Gomber
Angel Rondon
Jake Woodford
Luken Baker
And Jhon Torres
Seems reasonable with the 2 opt outs and taking on 3/4s of that ridiculous contract
St Louis >> Colorado organizationally
They’ll do a lot more with the back half of Arenado’s prime. The trade is good for MLB, both teams and Arenado.
I just want to see the first trade in MLB history with two guys named Nolan.
As I noted in the earlier thread, the Rockies would likely need to bring the AAV down to about $25M, which is right where this lands. Have to see who the final prospects are traded, but Arenado is a 5+ win player, actually averaging about 6.5 wins 2015-19, I suspect his BA will drop down into the .270 range, but the 35-40 HR power will remain with the elite fielding, still the best in the game at his position.
Good deal for the Cardinals.
I think it was yesterday some Cards fan was complaining about the team not doing anything. Great move for the Cards. I have a lot of respect for how they’re run.
Rockies fans are going to be disappointed in the return. This is a salary dump even with the $50M.
For that amount of money thrown in, the Rockies had better be getting the Cardinals top A or AA pitching prospect.
And then they might as well auction off Trevor Story and Jon Gray and hope to be competitive again in about 2024.
You know Jon Gray is like their 4th best starter, right?
John Mozeliak awoke this morning to see a reminder he set on his calendar from last October: 1/29/21 — John, reminder, make all off season moves today before leaving on winter vacation.
Wow, this is a big one! Happy that Arenado isn’t going to end up with the Dodgers, for sure. Rooting for the guy to make a big impact in St. Louis
There was a time I wanted Arenado at 3B in NY, but I’ve become an Urshela believer.
I love Gio too. He’s such a great guy and has worked really hard to get to where he is now. It’s the sort of heart that New York needs
Dodger fans are also happy he’s not going to be a Dodger. Good player but not worth the money. He will not put up the numbers he did at Colorado.
Forget about the money for a minute, just imagine what he said to his own team mates that were probaly like’ get this guy out of here’ i mean i get it, hes on a awful team going nowhere with no future, he wants to go somewhere better, but still, to also include the money , he had to say alot worse than to acknowledge he was unhappy being on a loosing team, thats why i feel great for teams like the mets and padres, fundamentally bad over the years franchises who are truly getting better.
He called the owner or the GM dishonest and other things. I think that helped move him.