Right-hander Mike Leake does not plan to sign before the season opens, Jon Heyman of MLB Network tweets. Leake, then a Diamondback, sat out last season because of COVID-19 concerns, and Heyman writes he could return to action this year “if things are more back to “normal.”’ The 33-year-old innings eater has rejected “multiple offers” in free agency, Heyman adds. During his most recent season in 2019, Leake put up a 4.29 ERA/4.79 SIERA with a below-average strikeout rate (15.2 percent) but an excellent walk percentage (3.2) over 197 innings between the Mariners and D-backs.
- White Sox second baseman Nick Madrigal is scheduled to make his Cactus League debut Monday, according to manager Tony La Russa (via James Fegan of The Athletic). Madrigal missed about a month in 2020, his first major league season, with a left shoulder injury and then underwent surgery in October. The 23-year-old batted .340/.376/.369 in 109 plate appearances, and though he rarely struck out (6.4 percent), he also didn’t hit for any power (zero home runs, .029 ISO).
- White Sox catcher Yasmani Grandal is also sidelined at the moment, having suffered a twisted right knee last week. La Russa said Grandal is progressing in his recovery, but the team doesn’t have a target date for his return right now, Daryl Van Schouwen of the Chicago Sun-Times relays. Grandal turned in yet another strong season in 2020 – his first with the White Sox – as he slashed .230/.351/.422 with eight homers over 194 PA and was a finalist for the Gold Glove Award at his position. He’ll be all the more important to the White Sox this year with previous backup James McCann having signed with the Mets in free agency.
- The Rockies’ Antonio Senzatela has a right hamstring strain that will delay his Cactus League debut by two starts, manager Bud Black told Thomas Harding of MLB.com and other reporters Wednesday. Senzatela has been a regular in the Rockies’ rotation since he entered the majors in 2017, and the 26-year-old righty posted a career-best 3.44 ERA (albeit with a far less encouraging 5.02 SIERA) over 73 1/3 innings a season ago.
- Angels righty Gerardo Reyes is dealing with a UCL sprain in his pitching elbow, Fabian Ardaya of The Athletic relays. The Angels are determining next steps at the moment, Ardaya reports, but UCL injuries are always scary for pitchers. Reyes hasn’t taken the mound yet for the Angels, who acquired him from the Padres for catcher Jason Castro last August. The 27-year-old reliever made his big league debut in 2019 with 26 innings of 7.62 ERA ball, but he struck out 32.5 percent of the batters he faced and averaged 97 mph on his fastball.
- Red Sox righty Bryan Mata has triceps soreness and will undergo an MRI on Thursday, per Julian McWilliams of the Boston Globe. Mata, 21, ranks as one of the organization’s top prospects, with Baseball America placing him fourth overall and contending that he could be a No. 3/4 starter in the future. If healthy, a 2021 big league debut could be on the table for Mata, who has topped out at the Double-A level thus far.
Did Reyes pitch in a spring training game and injure his elbow? Technically he did take the mound for the Halos
I believe that normally is in reference to regular season games
Reyes was in the game Sunday when he felt the elbow discomfort. Eppler loved to acquire high velo/max effort guys then be surprised when they hurt themselves.
Hopefully his sprain isn’t one that needs TJ but we all know how this usually turns out around here.
UCL sprain always equals Tommy John surgery at some point… another garbage signing by the Angels anyways
It wasn’t a signing. It says if right in the article that it was a trade.
Trade, signing, whatever, it’s a roster move
It was Castro….. and he had zero chance of making this team. Who cares?
Idubdj
What a Chooch
Lottery ticket for a few weeks of a timeshare catcher. Not a signing but would be nice if just once we picked up a lottery ticket that panned out.
It would be nice.
@haloheaven Mike Mayers, Hansel Robles, Dylan Bundy, Brian Goodwin, or Tommy LaStella not lottery pick enough for you?? Aside from Roble’s 2020 they all performed above expectations and had career years while they were on the Angels.
Yeah, but then there was Matt Harvey, Trevor Cahill, Julio Teheran, Cody Allen, Zack Cozart, and a host of other lousy players that made them a below average, below .500 team.
Price avoided it resting a little while. Didn’t Tanaka also do same? both just did the platelet rich plasma fix if not mistaken. Probably few others, tho do agree that the “sprain” is actually a tear. Why they call it a sprain is beyond me.
either false hope or optimism might also be the mindset my elbow is a bit tender might of sprained it like an ankle.
because ligaments get sprained. tendons get strained. and you are completely wrong to think that a sprain = tear.
Didn’t Reyes pitch for the Halos in a spring training game and strained his UCL? Technically he took the mound for the Angels.
So much has been said about Madrigal’s lack of power. If I’m a manager I honestly couldn’t care less if he doesn’t hit a home run the entire season. Having a capable leadoff man who can bat .340 and rack up 200 hits a year is invaluable, especially when the guys behind him in the lineup can drive the ball.
The issue with Madrigal is that he doesn’t hit for any power and he doesn’t walk, so if his batting average dips a little his value drops dramatically. It’s not that he’s a bad player, it’s just that his value is heavily tied to his batting average.
^This, What good is a .300+ average if he only has a .350 obp? I’d rather have a guy hit .250/.350/.500 than .300/.350/.400.
Madrigal really will be test of how valuable a singles hitter is in an era of HRs. I think he will be a good player, but his margin for error is so high due to his complete lack of power.
Also, he should not bat leadoff in this lineup. There are at least 6 better hitters in the lineup. 7 if Vaughn is promoted. Bat him 9 and let him set up the top of the order.
No worries, Madrigal has been hitting 9th as a high contact hitter to roll lineup over to lead-off TA. You may want those spreadsheet numbers in a vacuum, but with a lot of power in the lineup (and high K guys), having this kind of role player that can “hit” anyone helps…..especially playoffs against TOR arms with command. So many 3 outcome guys are easy outs against semi-decent pitching and get exposed when not able to compile empty calorie stats (and walks) against subpar pitching. Good lineups have balance.
Steve – Seriously? You don’t like a guy with a .350 OBP as a rookie? Your example is nonsense since you varied the slugging. Leave the slugging the same in both examples and you have a great question.
OBP = Batting Average + Extra Base Percentage (or whatever name your local statistician calls the stat related to walks and hit by pitch)
A normal hitter might hit .250 with an EBP of 0.75 giving them an OBP of .325. An above average hitter might hit .275 and an excellent hitter might hit .300.
A batter walks EXACTLY the same number of times whether they hit .225 or .325 so OBP has a CRITICAL COMPONENT called batting average. In fact, in an average player it is usually 5 times as important as their EBP.
So, for all the knuckleheads that say Batting Average is a 70s thing, learn your new modern metrics and their derivative components.
Your example should have been .250/.350/.500 and .300/.350/.500. At least that is a challenging question that doesn’t have the slugging percentage 100 points higher. Obviously, the greater total bases with the OBP equal is the simple choice. But what do you choose in my example?
The reason I ask is that I played, coached and taught the game for many years and I always found it easier to teach plate discipline over hand / eye coordination and timing. So if a player has a higher average but their OBP and SLG are the same, then it’s a no brainer, I’ll take the higher average guy. It will be easier to move his EBP up from .050 than to raise a hitter’s average up from .250. So the higher average guy has better upside since he has a skill the other player is significantly lacking. JBJ is a perfect example. Horrid average but near league average OBP. Find a guy who hits 50 points higher with the same OBP and SLG and you’ve got a better player and hopefully a cheaper one too since $10M for a guy that can’t hit makes no sense even if he’s a great defender.
Madrigal would have been a prototypical 2 hitter from days past. A contact hitter who moves the lead-off man into scoring position and may steal second if the lead-off man doesn’t get on. Don’t hate the guy who hits .340 (.300 in your example) and has an OBP of .380. If he stops hitting there is no guarantee his OBP will go down and his EBP will stay the same. Great hitters in slumps usually increase their walks when struggling at the plate so their average typically drops but is off=set by some increase in EBP.. Unlike the .250 hitter with an OBP of .380 who completely relies on walking to help the team because his hitting skills are extremely limited. That player’s skill is far more luck based than the hitter batting .340. If pitchers start throwing him strikes causing him to walk less and he continues to hit at .240 his value as an offensive threat diminishes to nearly zero. Guys that can hit .340 don’t typically lose their skills if they slump but players who DEPEND on walking as their main contribution to the team often fall on hard times when pitchers find their weak spot and exploit it rather than walk them.
Madrigal should initially hit 9th in my opinion to get better pitches, to get on base in front of Robert or whoever is the lead off hitter and to provide a base stealing threat increasing the fastballs to the lead off hitter. Hitting ninth should also help him acclimate more quickly to the speed of the MLB game. I think Madrigal is one of the most interesting prospects because as his body fills out he may develop power to all fields since he sprays the ball to all fields, he’s fast and could get faster and he’s an excellent defender and could be very highly rated defensively thanks to his range and arm strength..
I read these nonsense comment the first few years Pete Rose led off for the Reds.
To everyone who is coming out here saying Madrigal is a good player – I never said he was bad. His .340/.376/.369 stat line in 109 plate appearances from last year was pretty decent. However, his margin for error his really low. If his average dips just 20 points, and he puts up a .320/.356/.349 stat line, his value drops from an above-average second baseman to a utility player/starter on the Pirates.
For comparison, take a look at Padres second baseman Jake Cronenworth. He hit .285/.354/.477 in 192 plate appearances last year. If his average drops by 20 points, his value would drop, but he would still be an above average player.
Players who possess a diverse skillset(average, obp, power) are more likely to be successful than players who only have one skill. Madrigal could very well have a successful career, but his chances of succeeding are lower because of his particular skillset.
Madrigal would need to dip 60 points to get to where you project a Cronenworth slump would be. It isn’t just his average, it’s his ability to make contact. Having runners on with him up, he will make a productive out almost always.
He was also an absurdly good hitter with 2 strikes last season, and not just among rookies. Having a set of skills like that, he will be an All Star before a utility player
So glad you are basing Nick Madrigal’s future MLB career on 109 PA’s and 29 games in his 2020 MLB debut, one in which he played all but his first four games with an injured left shoulder that required a surgical cleanup following the season. This is what happens when baseball nerds base production strictly on stats, be they advanced or traditional without actually understanding what has transpired with a player during the course of a season.
What often doesn’t get considered are the intangibles that got a player to where he is in the first place. With Madrigal, it was always a tougher road to the top considering his diminutive size, something even more frowned upon in today’s modern era with an emphasis on exit velocity and launch angle. Nobody gave a rats a$$ about such advanced analytics in any other era but the present, particularly with players like Madrigal who have claimed there fair share of HOF busts.
Consider how much Madrigal had to overcome at each level of his amateur and professional career by being the David among all the Goliaths. Yet somehow he managed to become the overall #4 pick in the 2018 MLB June Amateur Draft. He hardly stopped impressing there either. It took him less than two full seasons of minor league ball, precisely 163 games and 705 PA’s before he made his MLB debut with the White Sox last season.
What Madrigal has been able to do so far in his career is really special. Very few people make it to the majors, let alone contribute on a playoff team. However, I don’t think he can sustain his level of success.
Let’s talk about Madrigal’s skillset – he plays good defense, is a good baserunner, and hits for a high average. The majors are loaded with utility guys who can play good defense and who can run the bases well. The only way Madrigal can keep a starting job is for him to continue to hit for a high average. He did that last year with an incredible .340 average, but he only had a .376 on base and a .369 slugging percentage, unspectacular numbers when you consider how high his batting average is. The only way he will continue to start is if he can keep up his high average.
The reason nobody gives a rats a$$ about guys like Madrigal anymore is that his level of performance is really hard to sustain over a full season. If his average drops just 20 points, he goes from being an above average second baseman who gets on base to a solid utility player. There is a much higher level of risk with a guy like Madrigal than there is with a player like Ozzie Albies, who can hit for a decent average, decent power, and walks a decent amount, to go along with good defense and base running.
If any utility player had the elite hitting skill of Madrigal they wouldn’t be in that role. You make it sound as if Madrigal’s ability to make contact is nothing special. In fact, his ability to put the ball in play is off the charts elite. If you counted all the hitters today at an level, Madrigal would be one of the fingers on your hand. That’s how elite his hitting ability is, already on a par with a player like Tommy La Stella who never achieved that contact ability at a comparable age to Madrigal as a professional. Stop spewing nonsense!
You talk about Madrigal’s elite hitting skill, but it’s not as important as you make it out to be. If all of his hits are singles, it won’t matter as much. He can still be a good player, but I would prefer someone like Ozzie Albies or Jake Cronenworth over Nick Madrigal. A stat line of .280/.340/.500 is better than a stat line of .340/.370/.370.
If contact is so important, then what do you think of Angels shortstop Jose Iglesias? Outside of 150 plate appearances in 2020, Iglesias has been a good defender who makes a ton of contact and doesn’t strike out very often, but is only a league-average shortstop. That is my prediction for Nick Madrigal: I think he will make good contact and avoid strikeouts, but because he isn’t as skilled as other players, he will only be an average/slightly above average player.
I like Dan55 contributions here despite the fact I like adding Madrigal to the White Sox lineup. A guy his size absolutely should walk more and that has to develop. In the meantime this lineup needs less K’s and combining his high contact with his speed should keep his average high.
José Iglesias is a nice player, generally a starting SS who could easily morph into an excellent utility infielder during the latter part of his career. That said, in about the equivalent of 6-1/2 full MLB seasons he has a 3-1 SO/BB ratio, only 52 SB’s with a poor ratio of success and a BA/OBP line of .278/.319.
Madrigal’s skills will easily exceed all of those number. His SO/BB ratio will be closer to even once he fully adapts to MLB pitching and probably even better when the automated strike zone is implemented. He could exceed Iglesias SB numbers by the end of his second full season and with a far better success rate. Finally, Madrigal could hit .278 in his sleep and his lifetime BA will be much closer to Iglesias .319 lifetime OBP.
Iglesias might be another floor comparison for Madrigal, certainly better than Darwin Barney, Yolmer Sanchez or the ridiculous one David Barista offered in Adam Engel.
Must have missed the part where getting runners on base, moving runners over, and turning over your lineup to one of the most dangerous hitters in baseball is a bad thing.
Madrigal is one of my favorites on the team, but let’s be honest here.
Unless he begins to hit more doubles and walk more, he is essentially a one-tool batter. And while I think hitting for average has become undervalued, and he’s not a base-clogger, he’s not exactly offering much offensively.
And yes, if he has a bad season, he will not be that valuable of a player.
For all of his pluses, Nellie Fox only had an OPS+ over 100 five times, and only had an overall OPS over 800 once. And while I think he can develop more power, I’m not sure Madrigal will even match Fox in that category.
All of that said, if he hits 320+ and provides solid defense, he is certainly a major league regular who adds more value than a guy who hits lots of solo shots but strikes out a lot with a lower average.
Last I checked, there was a guy by the name of Ichiro Suzuki who made a career in the MLB as a lead off guy hitting a lot of singles (and yeah I get he could hit homers too but IIRC he was quoted as saying his job was a leadoff hitter was to get on base, not try to swing for the fences). The Sox also had a guy by the name of Lance Johnson who did pretty well being a contact hitter and not homering or walking a lot but hit a a lot of triples as well.
People are also forgetting that Nicky is an insane hitter with 2 strikes and he has said he was more focused on making contact than trying to drive the ball. Not saying he will be a 20, or even a 10 homer guy, but if he hits just 20-30 doubles and a few triples (which I think he can easily do) and set up others to drive him in and he’ll be just fine on this club.
Madrigal is the perfect player for the Deadened baseball. MLB wants to see more balls put in play. That is why the ball is deadened to hopefully create a bit more action. Perfect for Madrigal. Madrigal isn’t needed for any power. Plenty of thunder in the White Sox lineup.
Nellie Fox. In the 1959 MVP season he hit 304/380/389 with gold glove
In a different era, Madrigal would be considered the prototypical number 2 hitter.. They would/could hit and run with aparicio/anderson.
Madrigal’s ONLY asset is contact which is really unique… maintaining a .300+ batting average is easier said then done, but his strike out rate has been absurd… maybe he’s special? I’d expect him to get sent down if/when he struggles or slumps because he contributes nothing if he’s not hitting for a high average… I am however liking the comments that point out what his approach offers a team in chemistry… this is the number 9 hitter
Most believe that Madrigal should already be allocating trophy case space for multiple Gold Gloves at 2nd base. Madrigal is an elite hitter who will ultimately slide into the lead off role with the White Sox. With the deadened baseball you will see things like table setters once again become important. This guy is an elite table setter. Plenty of thunder in the lineup the knock him in after he gets on base.
“Madrigal’s ONLY asset is contact…” lol
Most scouts and pundits aside from Keith Law rate Madrigal as a 4-tool talent. His hit tool is elite. His fielding tool is plus-plus. His run tool is also considered a plus. His arm is rated as adequate at SS but more than enough at 2B with his quick release. His only below average tool is his power. Maybe you missed all the scouting reports or also didn’t realize that Madrigal played all by his first 4 games with the White Sox with an injured left shoulder that need to be surgically repaired following the season.
Aside from his projections and more importantly his production as an amatuer and professional, Madrigal is also considered to be a player with one of the highest floors in MLB. That doesn’t usually happen with a player who “contributes nothing if he’s not hitting for a high average”.
So when Madrigal slumps, you think his defense and speed keep him in the lineup? That didn’t work for Adam Engel, and he was always a power threat… I am not calling Madrigal a bust, but like Engel Madrigal’s floor is in AAA…..Also, I’m only counting 3 tools?
Define slump? With Madrigal’s elite hitting skill, a slump for him might be going hitless in a single series or whiffing once in three consecutive games.
Comparing Nick Madrigal’s hitting ability to that of Adam Engel is ludicrous on so many levels including the ability of the latter to just put the ball in play on a consistent basis.
And yes, Madrigal’s Gold Glove defense, base running ability and high baseball IQ would keep him in the lineup in the unlikely event his hitting should ever revert to that of Darwin Barney or Yolmer Sanchez as a second baseman. I’ll gladly take up any wager you might have in mind that Madrigal’s floor will be more in the David Eckstein level over that of Barney, Sanchez or Engel, his mid-point comp in Willie Randolph territory and that his ceiling will be more in line with Nellie Fox, Luke Appling or even Dustin Pedroia with his recently added muscle and more experience.
Madrigal has so much confidence in his ability and such a chip on his shoulder from doubters like yourself he just might reach his goal of 3000 hits and maybe even exceed that number with a long career that could remind us all of a better fielding Rod Carew or Pete Rose when all is said and done. The sky is the limit for Madrigal even if his ceiling seems more in line with a Hobbit’s home.
I was comparing tools not hitting ability… and when your only tool is hitting ability then you are easily replaced if you struggle or slump…. for Madrigal, any batting average below an elite level makes him questionable… for a player like Engel, who plays elite defense at a premium position he at least also offers power and speed… I’d prefer Mendick or Garcia at second base over a slumping Madrigal… With his lack of power, Madrigal is not even worth a bench spot if he’s not producing elite contact….Does his speed or defense really separate him from those other two? Throughout college and the minor leagues he’s shown elite contact, and now he’s in a position where he has to prove it at the MLB level… you should temper expectations and wait before you crown him
@David Barista
You are a fool (tool?) to continually insist that Nick Madrigal is a one-tool player. He is a multi-tool talent whose top skill is hitting which makes him even more valuable than another multiple tool player whose worse attribute is hitting. Give it up and go argue with somebody more on your level of expertise like the Padres fan because clearly you lack sufficient knowledge when it comes to Madrigal and White Sox baseball.
I’m officially done (overdone!) with you and dan55 but will be more than happy to engage with real White Sox fans who might disagree with my comments.
Aaron Sapoznik
Nicely done.
It’s quite sad how obsessed today’s fans are with power. Obviously there’s nothing wrong with all your players having power, but there’s also nothing wrong with your 9th hitter hitting .330 to .350 with speed but no power. Actually there’s nothing wrong with your leadoff hitter hitting .330 to .350 with speed but no power. Oops, I forgot, if your leadoff hitter can’t hit a ton of leadoff HR’s, he’s worthless.
It’s funny that in 29 career MLB games, he wasn’t able to hit with any power, so he’s incapable of ever developing into a doubles hitter. He turns 24 tomorrow, and we all know 24 is well into the downside of any MLB player’s career. And it’s obvious he will never hit the weight room at any point in his career.
Enough with the sarcasm. If he can develop into a 30-40 doubles, 8-10 triples hitter every season (even with 0 HR’s), he can still do some damage with those numbers. I remember back in ’85 when Tommy Herr hit only 8 HRs and had 110 RBI. That’s incredible. Yes, I used the dreaded RBI stat. I deserve to be punished severely for that gross error in judgment.
As for his BB’s, that’s laughable. He should develop a good eye to increase the BB’s. And for sake of argument he doesn’t, I can’t think of any situation where a base hit doesn’t trump a walk. He may get RBI’s with those hits. There we go again, the dreaded RBI stat. I’m really asking for it. I’ll gladly take a lack of BB’s if it means a severely low number of K’s.
Now to his defense. His arm is fine at 2B. Let’s not act like he lobs the ball to 1B like a 10 year old girl. Plus, fielding is more important at 2B than arm strength. A cannon arm doesn’t do you much good if your fielding sucks.
Sure, a lot rides on his ability to hit, but he seems to have that down pretty good so far, even with an injured shoulder in 25 of those games.
I don’t support my opinions with blind faith, added muscle, or a player’s confidence level…. Top of the order, GOLD GLOVE, WS MVP, 3,000 hits, and HOF in no particular order…. Sky IS the limit for Madrigal if he can develop power, but I’ll wait and see before making those claims
While I agree 1000% with you, and believe Madrigal’s future is as bright as the sun, some of his perceived strengths didn’t not shine through last year. He was billed as an elite level defender, with high baseball IQ on the base paths, and I saw the polar opposite of that last season. Hopefully growing pains, and as he continues to play at the MLB level, those traits come back to him.
Just to be clear…. I believe Madrigal is adequate at second base…. his arm strength will be fine…. I am pointing out the difference between adequate and Gold Glove…. Leury Garcia and Danny Mendick are also adequate at 2B…. and neither of those players are slow…. Nick Madrigal doesn’t separate himself from any other second baseman in MLB with his speed or defense….. his only elite tool is contact…. if he isn’t hitting for contact at an elite level, then he doesn’t even deserve a spot on the bench…. it will be back to the minors for Madrigal to figure out what he’s actually good at and what separates him from every other second baseman
David – Every example of yours talks about a premiere average hitter slumping but it never talks about the power guy who hits less homers when the ball deadens or the walker who ends up not walking because his weak spot gets exposed and pitchers focus on that spot and his walks drop so his value plummets compared to a great hitter like Madrigal hitting a slump.
Great hitters that slump use the other half of OBP to ensure they don’t drop by their average. Bad hitters who need walks to provide value don’t have that luxury since dropping walks don’t translate to more hits.
You really don’t comprehend hitting when you make the statements that you’ve made. Madrigal is light years beyond either Mendick or Garcia. Garcia in his best of 8 years had an OPS+ of 83!!! WOW. That’s bad. Mendick can’t hit. He depends on walks to provide value. Seriously, that’s what you want from your 2B? A guy who can’t hit but given the right circumstances he can walk a league average number of times? And you compare him to a kid that has hit .331 at AAA and .341 at AA?
Guys like Madrigal don’t have to hit home runs to be exactly what is needed at 2B. If he maintains an average over .300 like he did in the minors and he develops more plate discipline he’s a .360 to .400 OBP guy in a couple of years. Neither Mendick or Garcia have that upside or even close to that upside.
I mean, obviously if Madrigal doesn’t end up getting on base at a good rate, that would be a disappointment. With that said, guys like Madrigal who are tough to strike out are a huge pain in the ass, and actually I think being a pain in the ass was specifically what the Sox were hoping to get out of this guy.
With our lineup the as it is, I LOVE him batting 9th. He won’t ever hit homers, but he did hit a ball 112 mph last year, and with his speed and smarts I’m hoping he can be a gap hitter who works counts and gets on base.
If you think Nick Madrigal is impressive now, just wait until MLB implements the automated strike zone in the next year or two. He is already considered an elite contact hitter with a keen batting eye and off the chart baseball IQ. Combine all that with a defined and consistent strike zone going forward and you will not only see the diminutive Madrigal drawing more walks but also driving fat pitches in his smaller sweet-spot area.
Madrigal has rarely whiffed throughout his amateur and professional career. That trait continued in his MLB debut last season but as a rookie he was also the victim of many borderline calls going against him. He only fanned 7 times in 109 PA’s but was rung-up on some bad calls and also lost favorable counts with some erratic umpiring, not all that uncommon for any rookie, especially in an era where pitch-framing is actually legalized cheating. That won’t happen once the robo-umps take over with a small and smart Madrigal taking the greatest advantage of the new technology.
as much as i hate to disagree with you, aaron…there is one thing that i must point out. the fact is that when automated strike zone is implemented, there will be ALMOST ZERO players that will walk more than they previously did. most everyone has noticed that the live umpires miss more strikes (calling them balls) than they miss balls (calling them strikes). so unless they make the official strike zone smaller when automated calls begin…neither madrigal nor ANY PLAYER you can name will be walking more than they did.
however, since most fans would rather see more offense in the game, there is a fighting chance that, indeed, mlb will shrink the official size of the strike zone…making your conjecture about madrigal getting more walks correct! way to go!
by the way, how did a singles hitter who averaged in the low one digit numbers for homers, and set the ALL TIME FUTILE RECORD for on-base -percentage for any player with 6ooo at-bats or more (.287) get to keep his first string job for 14 seasons?!!!!!!!! i’m talking about ozzie guillen, the worst excuse for a major league ballplayer i’ve ever seen in my lifetime! if the white sox didn’t send guillen to tripleA, i guarantee that madrigal will never go there, with the only possible exception being a temporary rehab assignment.
rjh – If Madrigal walks less than he should and walks are going to drop wouldn’t that suggest the guy that relies on walks to have a decent OBP is in far more danger of having that value fall then the great hitter who bats .300 but doesn’t walk a lot?
Your point is interesting because it should create concern for all those bad hitters relying on walks to have decent OBPs!! Nice observation.
What’s this? An injury update without including anything about the Yankees?
Well, that’s fun.
Yankees are just too easy of a target this year. I saw Gary Sanchez bat …… He struck out ….. what a shocker that is …. lol ….. I stand by my belief that the Yankees will be battling a rebuilding Boston team for 3rd in the AL East ….. Soup Nazi is a White Sox fan …. No Playoffs For You!
@barry how do you see nyy fighting bos for 3rd they have a sold team (a bit weak on the pitching side) they kept up with the rays while playing the aaa yankees last year.
@brodie-bruce Here are a few reasons why the Yanks will be battling Boston for 3rd place. #1) Gary Sanchez is still the catcher. He can’t hit and pitchers hate throwing to him.. #2) Aaron Judge will get hurt. Facts! #3). Giancarlo Stanton will get hurt. Facts! #4) Clint Frazier is your 3rd outfielder. Gets bumped up to 2nd when Judge gets hurt. #5) Brett Gardner is your 4th outfielder. Let that sink in for a moment. #6) Starting pitching after Cole is nothing but a bunch of question marks that have a real possibility of trending the wrong way. This is a 162 game season this year and not 60 games. Starting pitching alone can sink this squad. #7) Deadened baseball. The Yanks are not built to play any form of small ball whatsoever. Expect to see more of the “AAA Yankees” this year.
barry most of your points is what the yankees we’re dealing with last year 23 guys at one time on the dl is more than enough to crush a team. yes nyy has question marks especially on the sp side. cws have a team worth watching now and i’m going to try and watch some cws games because of your manger but your team is just as questionable as nyy
@BrodieBruce – Last year was 60 games. We are gonna play all 162 this year. Not good for the Yanks. Especially that starting pitching group. Those sticks won’t hold up for 162 games with the injuries.
Very – I agree. NYY and RS battling for third sounds reasonable.
other than tb winning the ale who comes in 2nd tor? yes tor is bulldozing something to watch just like cws and sd but until they show me that they can make that next step i say it’s a coin flip between tb and nyy (if nyy can stay healthy). between sd cws and tor i like cws changes the best. cws have 2 things going for them they are in an easy winnable div have a hof manger.
I am not calling any of the teams in the AL East world beaters. I think Tampa is gearing up for a strong run with Wander Franco starting next year. They will still win the division this year. Not that impressed with Toronto either, but I believe they are better than the Yanks. Definitely like their starting pitching better. They still have $$$ to add. Yanks are in subtract mode.
The old…one at…bat……. sample size, huh? What… would your take be….if…you saw one of his AB’s where he homered? 393′ to….dead center today.
(btw a style of posting that is reminiscent of teenage girl texting is cute.)
White Sox fan?
Pretty proud of your team’s little rebuild, uh? Good for you, man!
I guess @very berry.
I do have a question, however. Why didn’t the white sox rebuild like the Yankees did?
Ya know: make a couple deadline trades where you sell & couple where you add, call up some stud prospects, hang around the Wild Card race well into September, finish the year with a winning record, & BOOM!, come back the next year & win a hundred games. That’s called “style”, bro.
& that’s how all teams should rebuild! No idea why the white sox didn’t just do it that way. But you seem happy about all those losing seasons. So that’s cool. I guess. Wouldn’t be for me, though. Blech. I hate losing.
2021 World Series odds:
Yankees – +550
white sox – +850
I’ll let it go at that. Because the white sox are too easy of a target…well, always, @berry.
I like watching my team in the playoffs every year. Be the same this year. I know just reaching the playoffs is a Big Deal for your team. Yankee fans just assume we’ll be in the postseason.
Because we always are. That’s just business as usual for us. It’s kind of hard to explain to an outsider.
@ barry i’ll give that nyy can finish 3rd tor is building and have the cash to add at the dead line and tb is still a strong team. nyy yes they have questions but there also a team that if there in striking distance of the doc by july and they feel like they can be a ws contender nyy will blow past the cbt line to win. hard to bet against an organization that traditionally wins and there rebuilds are a 82~90 win season and barely not making it than 5 years of greatness then 20 years of sucking.
Ducky – I’m counting the rings amassed by the Yankees in the last decade since they out spent the Red Sox by over $200M and have no jewelry to show for it. Do you somehow think that’s better than the Chicago White Sox who spent close to $400M less than NY in the 2010s and have the same number of rings?
Great rebuild. I was thinking the goal was to win a ring not to brag about a rebuild that sort of worked or did it? I guess if you don’t measure success by rings but by payroll spent it’s easy to be a Yankee fan.
Quoting odds when you haven’t won a ring in over a decade seems like a guy grasping for ways to argue that his team which is spending $50M to $100M more than the White Sox in 2021 is better. Maybe since you don’t focus on rings, how about who gets more wins per $1M spent? I think that flips the odds dramatically!!
White Sox fans should be pleased that the blow=hard Yankee fans are scared enough to be chirping at them instead of the Astros, Red Sox or Rays. The team must be significantly improved to turn the focus on Chicago!!!
American League Awards
If look like to get some action ….. this is free money!!!
AL Rookie of the Year – Andrew Vaughn (White Sox)
AL Manager of the Year – Tony LaRussa (White Sox)
AL Comeback Player of the Year – Michael Kopech (White Sox)
AL Most Valuable Player – Tim Anderson (White Sox)
AL Home Run King – Eloy Jimenez (White Sox)
AL Batting Champion – Nick Madrigal (White Sox)
AL Cy Young Lucas Giolito (White Sox)
AL Fireman of the Year – Liam Hendrix (White Sox)
Let me guess, you’re a White Sox fan?
Let me guess ….. You are a Padres fan?
Let me guess LSD?
dock ellis threw a no-no on lsd just a thought maybe instead of roids pitchers should of been eating lsd.
Angels need to sign Odorizzi.
Why?
By June 15th Angel fans will be complaining about him.
Take that short 20 mile / 70-85 minute drive up the freeway and watch the Dodgers (2 hours-plus if you go rush hour and there’s an accident).
Angels are fine. They are gonna win the Division! Mike Trout will get to see the playoffs. Just make sure when this “Generational Talent” doesn’t produce in the playoffs …… you quit calling him a “Generational Talent”. He is a really good player who is beginning his decline.
You can’t really take that out on Trout though. It’s not his fault the Angles pitching sucks. Trout is easily a generational talent. His 74.6 bWAR is already the 81st highest mark of all time. If WAR isn’t your thing, then how about the fact that he’s one of just 7 players of all time to have a 170+ wRC+ throughout their career. Just look at how he compares to Mickey Mantle through their first 10 seasons in the MLB and the 10 years after Willie Mays after he returned from Military service.
Mantle: .307/.422/.568, .434 wOBA, 170 wRC+, 74.8 fWAR, fWAR/150: 8.02
Mays: .320/.398/.601, .427 wOBA, 162 wRC+, 88.9 fWAR, fWAR/150: 8.68
Trout: .304/.418/.582, .418 wOBA, 172 wRC+, 75.7 fWAR, fWAR/150: 9.07
Did he have a down year last year? By his standars, yes. But we’re also looking at a small sample size as he had just one plate appearance off for 200 for the season. He had a really bad first week of the season which really bogged down his overall numbers. From July 29th onward, he had a 1.027 OPS, .421 wOBA and 171 wRC+. One bad week during the 2020 season can really affect overall stats because it was so short.
@mlb1225 I am in the minority and don’t believe the Angels starting pitching this year is as bad as it looks. I think Dylan Bundy may actually be legit as something close to a #3. Quintana will eat innings. Heany and Canning will get more innings. Ohtani is throwing gas. They still have Jo Adell in the minors who is poised to get dealt at the deadline in a package for a top of the rotation starter.
I don’t think the Angels starting pitching is going to be bad this year either. They have some solid arms, but you can’t deny they’ve had pitching troubles in the past and then use that against Trout.
the angels pitching is never bad just there elbows.
Not using their pitching troubles against Trout. The statement I was making was more to the media labeling Mike Trout a “Generational Talent”. Pitching or no pitching. Mike Trout cannot be a “Generational Talent” without a playoff resume. Being able to perform in the clutch in the playoffs is part of being the “best” player from a generation. If Angels go to playoffs ….. and Trout tanks ….. no more generational talent. A really good player for a lot of years. Hall of Famer? Likely trending in that direction …. generational talent …. NO!
This is ridiculous. They have not had any more elbow problems than any other org. look it up and educate yourself. google Tommy John Tracker and examine the data.
Playoff performance shouldn’t be weighed so heavily that it makes a player a generational talent or not. Mays only had a .660 OPS in the post season. Mike Schmidt only has a .690 OPS. Kershaw has a ring, but also a 4.19 ERA in October. Trout isn’t just trending toward the HOF, he could retire now and make it first ballot.
Trout is a generational talent. When was the last time a player of his caliber played the game? Probably not since Mays and Mantle. He’s currently one of the top 10 hitters of all time and already one of the 80 best players in terms of bWAR. By the time he’s done with his career, he could be the greatest of all time. On his current pace, he’d hit the 500 home run milestone in the next 5 seasons. If he keeps up his 170+ wRC+, he’ll be a top 7 hitter of all time. Heck, he’s on pace to have over 110 bWAR in the next 5 seasons. Playoffs or not, he’s an all time great before the age of 30.
I’d put Ken Griffey Jr. in the generational category between Willie Mays/Mickey Mantle and Mike Trout, particularly during his first 11 seasons in Seattle which are very comparable to Mike Trout’s numbers with the Angels thus far. Most all of the career WAR ‘Junior’ accumulated was in the first half of his HOF career before the hard turf on the Kingdome took a toll on his overall health.
Griffey Jr. had a solid first season after his ‘desired’ trade to his hometown of Cincinnati but he couldn’t overcome further injuries and return to his former elite standing during the last half of his 22-year MLB career with the Reds, White Sox and back in Seattle for his last hurrah. ‘Junior’ had limited playoff experience with the Mariners but much more than what Trout has experienced thus far with the Angels. Unlike Willie Mays and some other HOF’ers, Griffey Jr.’s postseason production very much resembled his career triple slash line.
The Kid is another really good example too. He did well in the playoffs, but only played in 18 games and stepped to the plate 79 times.
Ken Griffey was a generational talent and hardly made the playoffs.
Mike Trout is the GOAT.
Guess by Very Berry’s standars, Ted Williams, Mays, Schmidt, Stan Musial, Honus Wagner and Ty Cobb were never really generational talents. All of them either didn’t make the playoffs very often or when they did, they didn’t perform well.
Good heavens, @berry –
You arw certainly unafraid to look stupid lol.
They have a lot of 3s. Shohei could be a 1, but more likely a 2. It isn’t a bad staff, but isn’t great, and while the Astros haven’t gotten any better, the M’s and A’s still look good.
lasershow45 – GOAT? Greatest of his generation yes but clearly not of all time.
Trout has enjoyed five of the top six seasons where the juice in the ball has been greatest in baseball history. To put this in perspective, Babe Ruth hit 60 Home Runs with a juice factor of 0.37 in 1927. Trout’s career has seen the following juice factors:
Year Juice Index
2020 1.28
2019 1.39
2018 1.15
2017 1.26
2016 1.16
2015 1.01
2014 0.86
2013 0.96
2012 1.02
The ball is 3 to 4 times as lively today compared to 1927. Yes, Ruth did not play defense like Trout but Trout was never an elite pitcher.
GOAT is reserved for people who far exceed others like Tom Brady and Babe Ruth. Trout is simply one of the greatest of all time and his career is only roughly half over! That is outstanding and it is not a slight to Trout that he finishes so far behind Ruth based on numbers. My comments are here only to acknowledge that NOBODY will ever compare to Ruth. All discussions will always be about 2nd greatest of all time and there are many, many candidates.
Nick Madrigal: Perennial AL Batting Title and Gold Glove contender. A throwback player who hits for a high BA and rarely strikes out. He is a right-handed hitting and more athletic version of former ‘go-go’ era HOF White Sox second baseman Nellie Fox. Madrigal will hit for a higher BA and SLG than Fox. Madrigal is also much faster afoot and should swipe 20-30 bases per season. Like Fox, Madrigal is the prototypical #2 hitter in a traditional MLB batting order. He should fill that role down the line and will be particularly effective hitting behind a leadoff hitter who is a big base stealer, another trait that seems lost in this modern era. That said, both Tim Anderson and Luis Robert have the ability to swipe 30+ bases with the right skipper at the helm, like Tony La Russa who just happened to be Rickey Henderson’s manager from 1989-1995 in Oakland.
Bottom line: Madrigal is a high IQ ballplayer. La Russa has already compared him to 5’6″ David Eckstein who was the World Series MVP for the 2006 Cardinals. Eckstein also earned a ring for the 2002 Angels as their starting SS. Madrigal has higher personal ambitions, going on record to say that 3000 hits is a very attainable goal in addition to becoming a part of a championship team, something he already achieved in his final college season at Oregon State University.
I don’t see the gold glove…. and not because he made a few errors…. his arm is weak…. I think he is serviceable in the field, but I see his only real asset as hitting for contact… maybe he can hit .300 and be an all time talent…. The contact rate he’s had as a professional is elite, so it will be fun to see if that translates at MLB level…. A greater emphasis should be placed on how he fits with the team… His style and approach should be a huge contribution to chemistry… I don’t think he should be talked about as a lead off or #2 hitter or Rookie of the Year candidate…. he’s the #9 hitter and he will likely be good in that role if he can play solid defense
Are you a professional scout? Aside from his elite hit tool, Madrigal has also earned high grades for his glovework in college and as a professional. He was a SS at OSU before moving to 2B in his final college season which was fine considering he projects more as a Gold Glove defender there as a professional. His arm is considered adequate for SS but plenty good at 2B. In fact, Madrigal has consistently been rated at the top of the class as the best defensive 2B prospect in all of MLB since being selected #4 overall by the White Sox in the 2018 MLB June Amateur Draft.
Fans need to remember that Madrigal played all but his first 4 games of 2020 with an injured left shoulder that needed to be surgically repaired following the season. That injury didn’t seem to affect his BA but it negatively impacted his SLG, SB and defensive ability. Madrigal admitted afterwards that the player White Sox fans saw last season was but a shell of his normal self. He had to ramp down his usual aggressive style once he returned from the IL in late August for fear of re-injuring the shoulder to where he couldn’t play. Madrigal at 75-80% was still an asset for the team down the stretch and into the postseason.
Ironically, it was an aggressive baserunning mistake in his fourth MLB game that got Madrigal hurt in the first place, something he has vowed to improve upon as he gets acclimated to playing the game at its highest level.
Neither of us are professional scouts Aaron… I do believe Madrigal is adequate at 2B, but the fact that he was moved from SS in college is a pretty clear indication that he lacks arm strength…. it is a credit to him for playing hurt, and I believe he also did so in college…. He still has plenty to prove with little room for error… I’ll wait and see before promoting him to top of the order or awarding a Gold Glove or Rookie of the Year
Actually, Nick Madrigal did not move off the SS position at Oregon State University because of any defensive inadequacy at the position. He did it to accommodate Cadyn Grenier who was one of three OSU’s players selected in the first round of the same 2018 MLB June Draft that saw Madrigal go #4 to the White Sox. Grenier was drafted by the Orioles as a SS with the #37 pick. The Twins drafted RF Trevor Larnach with the #20 pick that June. That 2018 OSU team won the NCAA World Series and also featured C Adley Rutschman who was the overall #1 pick by the Orioles in the 2019 MLB June Draft.
Madrigal has the defensive ability to play SS at the MLB level like an even shorter 5’6″ David Eckstein but is better suited at 2B where his arm and height are more advantageous. The White Sox already have a gifted athletic and stronger armed SS in Tim Anderson. Their confidence in Madrigal’s defensive ability at 2B prompted the move of Yoan Moncada to 3B in 2019 before Madrigal even began his second and final season in the White Sox minor league system.
The White Sox are better served now with a Gold Glove caliber player at 2B in Madrigal and one at 3B in Moncada along with an extremely talented Anderson at SS.
When you start comparing Madrigal’s ability to actual MLB shortstops and second baseman you realize that his arm strength is not and never will be a “tool”…. Was Eckstein a Gold Glover or am I missing something? Moncada wasn’t moved to make room for Madrigal…. Machado signing with the Padres prompted Moncada’s move to 3rd more than the prospect of Madrigal…. If your comparison for Madrigal is Eckstein then you should stop with the Gold Glove nonsense
Nah, Moncada was moving to 3rd that year. It was announced before Machado had signed anywhere. It was part of the reason Sox fans didn’t believe the FO when they said they went all in on Machado. Moncada’s inability to play 2nd was the biggest reason they moved him. He was awful there.
Yes Moncada was bad at 2nd base… the Sox also had a hole to fill at 3rd as Yolmer Sanchez wasn’t the long solution at any position…. Point being they didn’t move Moncada to 3rd to “make room” for Madrigal who was another year away from MLB…. as you stated, he was bad…. The Sox likely preferred Leury Garcia at 2nd over Moncada and probably would have moved Yoan to the outfield had they signed Machado…. The Sox announced Moncada’s position change only a couple days before Machado signed with Padres.
@davidbarista You do realize that you are only going to get to fly that silly flag with the “W” on it like 65 or maybe 70 times this year after Cub wins right?
Stop trolling the Cubs Barry… I don’t fly flags or drink Old Style… The post has nothing to do with the Cubs
He plays 2nd base. He can literally roll the ball to 1st and get the out 90% of the time. His arm is more than adequate for the position.
Assuming last year was just a rookie making mistakes and not an actual issue (both defense and base running), he’ll be a great asset for this Sox team. And based off just about every single scouting report outside of yours, there’s nothing to worry about. He is EXACTLY what everyone expected him to be the day he was drafted.
Can the Angels do anything right outside of Mike Trout?
“Can the Angels do anything right outside of Mike Trout?”
Moreno tried his best to mess that up too….
Not on mlbtraderumors yet… JBJ 2 yrs for $24M brewers
I hope the White Sox do not regret not finding a way to keep McCann on the club. Sorry, but he looked like a far better all around catcher last season than Grandal.. Hopefully that was just a fluke.
i don’t think it was a fluke. and the mets have put about 40 million bucks on that bet. but, i think that we’re going to get quite a bit more from lucroy than anyone thinks. the unfortunate loser here could be mercedes who belongs on a major league team. the man can really rake! as opposed to collins, who was lucky to get any mlb at-bats, at all.