Prized White Sox prospect Andrew Vaughn has made the team’s Opening Day roster. He isn’t on Chicago’s 40-man, so the team will need to select him.
The White Sox could have gained an extra year of service time by keeping Vaughn down for the first few weeks of the season, but executive vice president Ken Williams said last week that wouldn’t be a motivating factor in their decision. The team was true to its word. If Vaughn doesn’t return to the minors, he’ll be controllable through 2026 and eligible for arbitration after 2023, though the White Sox could certainly extend him before then, as they’ve done on multiple occasions in recent years with offensive building blocks such as Yoan Moncada, Tim Anderson, Eloy Jimenez and Luis Robert.
General manager Rick Hahn stated Tuesday (via James Fegan of The Athletic), “Having Andrew around will be a positive for this offense.” The White Sox expect Vaughn to factor in at designated hitter, first base and left field, according to Hahn.
It became easier to envision Vaughn making Chicago’s season-opening roster when the club received the devastating news of Jimenez’s ruptured pectoral tendon last week. Jimenez underwent surgery Tuesday and remains likely to miss at least five to six months, Hahn said. The hope is that Vaughn will help fill Jimenez’s enormous offensive void.
Now 22 years old, Vaughn is a former University of California standout whom the White Sox drafted third overall in 2019 and then signed to a $7.2MM-plus bonus. Vaughn hasn’t gotten above High-A ball since then, but he has held his own in the minors, having slashed .278/.384/.449 in 245 plate appearances. He has also looked ready for prime time this spring with a .279/.375/.459 line and six extra-base hits (three doubles, two home runs and a triple) in 61 at-bats.
Along with Vaughn’s addition, the White Sox made a handful of other roster moves Tuesday. They optioned infielder Danny Mendick to their alternate site and reassigned fellow infielders Tim Beckham, Zach Remillard and Matt Reynolds, outfielder Nick Williams, and right-hander Ryan Burr. The club also made the previously reported release of catcher Jonathan Lucroy official.
Good to see.
I’m not complaining one bit. Not to say he couldn’t use some seasoning in the minors, but given what happened over the past couple of weeks to the OF, I think it cemented his chances of making the 26-man. I know it’s only ST, but he did look pretty good over the past month.
We can rip Kenny all we want (and I’m more than happy to take him to task), but he was a man of his word with Vaughn. I have to at least give him credit for that, if nothing else.
I am looking forward to Thursday night. Bring it on!
On this day in Cub history. March 30, 1992. Cubs release Jamie Moyer and offered him a coaching job. Instead he pitched 19 more seasons, 20 if you include that 1992 season in the minors. Won 241 games after Cubs released him.
Cool!
What’s that have to do with the article? The Cub obsession is real with Sox trolls.
Lighten up Francis. If anything it shows how inept the Cubs were …
+1 for the Stripes reference
Moyer married Digger Phelps’ daughter.
Did he really Digger?
forgot to say he was first released from the rangers, then the Cardinals.
No your exactly right, some of these trolls are even more obsessed with the Cubs than I thought possible. But on topic I like Vaughn, not a ton of at bats yet in even the minors but looked good this spring and without Eloy it certainly makes sense for him to make the team.
Its a national past time to remind Cubs fans of their history.
He was also signed and dropped by Detroit that same year for the same reason. It happens.
sjwil1- I didn’t forget to say anything. Being first released by the Rangers and Cardinals have nothing to do with March 30, 1992 in Cubs history. Feeble attempt.
I thought the cubs traded him and Palmiero to the Rangers?
Just looks it up. He was traded to the Rangers with Palmerio for Mitch Williams. In 1989.it was a 9 player trade. Wikipedia doesn’t list the other pliers.
5 years later. Mitch Williams would serve up one of the most infamous home runs in world series history.
wrek305- you are correct on the trade. Curtis Wilkerson Steve Wilson came back to Cubs and Paul Kilgus and Drew Hall went to Rangers. And a couple other players were involved.
secret- I don’t know what you mean by the same reason but Detroit signed Moyer in May of 1992 and he was granted free agency in December of 1992. moyer went 269-209 with a 49.8 WAR for all you WAR fans.
I don’t think that what any team does this early in a player’s career cements anything with regards to future extensions. It the player and his agent believes that the market will bring more money to the player by entering it, the player will never extend past the last Arb year. That is the reality of the game. I don’t begrudge any player for entering the market if it benefits them and the player most likely will not turn down a bigger deal just because his original team did not hold him an extra year that it could have.
Not to rain on Vaughn’s parade but here are his Steamer projections .216/.281/.355 and possibly one of the worst LF in the league. World Series or bust!
@tesseract
And we care about Steamer projections why?
Because they are usually a better indicator of future performance than anyone’s opinion
@tesseract
If you say so. Because these projections have never been wrong.
I’d rather just watch him play and judge for myself than to worry about projections, thank you very much.
And watch him play we will. Just don’t expect an Eloy type replacement. Not even a Rookie Eloy version, or an average player for that matter this year. The White Sox are in trouble if they hope to win their division.
@tesseract
Since he’s never played an MLB game, personally I’d rather watch him play to see how he adjusts to MLB pitchers before worrying about projecting his year-end totals.
Funny thing is I never bothered to check whether or not your numbers are accurate with the Steamer projections for Vaughn. Why didn’t I verify those numbers? Because that’s how little I care about those projections. I just think it’s pretty silly to be projecting a player’s stats that we know very little about. It’s even more silly to think the Sox’s division hopes rely solely on how Vaughn does in LF.
If these projections are that important to you, don’t let me stand in your way. You keep being you.
My point is… the White Sox expect to be a playoff team this year. And starting Vaughn in LF certainly hurts those chances. Eloy getting hurt was a blow to them but the team did not appropriately build roster depth
tesseract- The loss of Eloy is a crushing blow but starting Vaughn in LF does not necessarily “certainly hurt those chances.”
From what I see Vaughn is formidable in the batters box and who cares about LF defense or Steamer for that matter. And Tony will keep him focused and Vaughn will become proficient in the fundamentals, no doubt.
You know who cares? A championship winning team 😉
@tesseract
No, not really. Championship teams have more important things to care about than independent projections.
I thought they’d send him to the Alternative site/Triple-A to at least start the season so if they are planning on using him out in LF, he’d at least get a little bit of playing time before being thrown directly into the majors at the position.
According to reports I’ve read, Vaughn actually got a lot of outfield reps during the season last year at the alternative site. No idea how he looked out there, of course, but at least it won’t be totally foreign. And this could just be a two week band-aid until Adam Engel gets back from his injury.
Let’s be honest, the glove couldn’t really be that much worse. He’s slower than Eloy, who actually moves really well for as big as he is, but I don’t think Vaughn will be a big downgrade. Biggest concern I have is balls down the line becoming triples instead of doubles.
As for Vaughn being a band-aid until Engel gets back, I could see a platoon happening. When Collins is behind the plate, Vaughn DH’s and Engel starts in the field, especially against lefties, against whom Engel does better. Of course, if I’m wrong about Vaughn’s defensive prowess and he’s even worse than Eloy, maybe Engel is the primary until Eloy returns.
Honestly speaking how would you rank a 1B that has never played LF against a list of elite defenders in baseball? Honestly, he would rank near the bottom if not worst. Playing defense at the ML level is not easy folks, specially when your output is being compared to other ML outfielders.
Billy Hamilton is the current “band-aid” for Adam Engel on the White Sox opening day roster. If Vaughn should struggle or get hurt the front office will almost certainly be looking at an outside veteran alternative to replace Vaughn/Eloy Jimenez. They were reportedly talking to free agent OF’s Yoenis Cespedes and Yasiel Puig after the Jimenez injury was diagnosed. A couple other FA options remain including Josh Reddick. The possibility of a trade also exists, one that could happen well before the July 31st deadline.
In a normal year they might have. This year the minors aren’t starting on time, so he wouldn’t have had time to really adjust with live games, unless they wanted to wait two months or more – hard to do for a team expecting to compete for the division.
This is somewhat true. MLB teams will be allowed to carry up to 5 players from their alternate practice site as traveling members of their taxi squad on road trips. Other than the required one catcher who can suit up and perform bullpen duties those players won’t be in the dugout during games but can practice with the team beforehand. More importantly, at least in regards to the White Sox, they already have a plan in place to actually play real games versus two other ‘local’ teams who will also be training at nearby sites until the AAA season begins in early May. White Sox, Cubs and Brewers players at their alternate sites will be playing each other in real live contests throughout April.
Considering the AAA season won’t begin til May at the earliest, it’s not like Vaughn would receive any seasoning in LF without being in the majors.
They should have given him some time in AA just to give him some reps before making his MLB debut.
What AA? The minors are starting late.
4D chess service time manipulation. Guarantee it.
Between this and Crochett, I think the Sox are just legitimately going against the grain and bringing guys up fast. They have a history of it as well with Sale, Eloy. I’m not a fan of the franchise but I like this not playing games attitude towards young guys
This is cool. ChiSox want to win and they are putting their best team forward. Not manipulating his service time could also go a long way in extending Vaughn down the road.
Exactly.
Putting their best team forward would’ve involved actually giving out a 9-figure contract after bottoming out in payroll for 3 years.
Harper, Machado, Rendon and Wheeler turned down six figures to go elsewhere. I have very little faith in J.R. spending like a big market team should spend, but at least Hahn is trying.
The reports were that the sox offered the most money to Machado, but he just wanted to live on the west coast year around.
Giolito is unlike most top prospects in that his family has money. Rather than needing that first contact to set up his family’s future, he may prioritize being chased as the most wanted player in his first free agent year,
Vaughn seems like the prototypical player that the sox have extended up front. I’m surprised that it hasn’t happened by now.
*nine figures
Yes, if Vaughn is balking at, say, a $40 million dollar contract or less, he should take a look at what happened to his PAC Player of the Year predecessor, Scott Kingery. The Phillies couldn’t have been higher on him in 2018, and signed him to a $24 million contract before he’d played an inning in the majors. Same attitude, same type of kid as Vaughn. He got sent to the minors the other day. Sometimes betting on yourself isn’t the best move, especially when signing the contract can set you up financially for life, regardless of whether or not you can play in the majors.
Kingery wasn’t close to the type of prospect Vaughn is.
I like Vaughn and his approach is great. I think he’ll be a well-above-average hitter. That said, I’m still leery of signing him to a big extension just yet. Robert’s floor is high because of his defense and speed. Even if his bat doesn’t come around, he’s like a more powerful version of Byron Buxton. If Vaughn doesn’t make adjustments when pitchers adjust to him, then he’s not worth very much. Many top-ranked hitters have disappointed in their first taste of the majors. Some never made the necessary changes to thrive.
Not coming out of college — Kingery was a second round pick — but at the end of spring training 2018, in which he was the best player in Florida, putting up much better numbers than Vaughn did this spring, the Phillies regarded him as a can’t miss star. He was arguably the best all-round player in the minors in 2017 — .304 BA, 26 HR, 29 SB, gold glove caliber defense at second. Taking defense into account he was more highly regarded than Vaughn at that point.
I saw both play in college, Kingery many times. I certainly think Vaughn’s swing will play better in the majors, but Kingery’s bat was as good when he was on. But he was prone to slumps, and now he’s in one that has lasted most of three years. So once again, Andrew — If there’s life-changing money on the table, take it and run.
Kingery’s peak prospect rank was 30. Vaughn’s is in the 20s. Don’t distort truth to push your own slanted narrative.
And that slanted narrative would be what?
I guess you’re talking about MLB.com prospect rankings, and seem to think there is a large difference between 30 and somewhere “in the 20s..” Well, it kind of depends on where they rank you when you first come into organized baseball. Kingery had to work his way up the rankings by performing in the minors.
Nobody who has seen Kingery play — which clearly doesn’t include you — thinks he’s a “terrible baseball player.” including Joe Girardi, who just sent him to the minors, but said he’s a potential “all-star.” He’s lost at the plate now, but the Phillies, who have seen him play for six years, aren’t giving up on him.
It will have no factor in extending him down the road.
.216/.281/.355 projection and the worst defensive LF in the league. I guess that’s putting your best team forward. The White Sox lack of depth is astonishing. I doubt they will win their division this year.
I bet he signs an extension fairly soon
Only if he messes up, early. Then Sox will hold that over his head.
They clearly committed to this kid as the future 1B. Short of below average offensive production, there’s nothing he could “mess up”.
Don’t feed dogboner.. Trolls love comments on their posts, its like the love they never got from their parents.
Even below average wouldn’t be a mess up. Vlad, Jr., hasn’t lived up to his potential yet (though he’s technically been a little above average). He still has a job because the Jays believe in his future. Vaughn would have to be downright EE-esque to be demoted, especially given the Sox’ lack of depth.
Zero incentive to sign a contract soon.
A solid season and demonstration to play a corner outfield spot will increase his value significantly.
If he was going to sign, it would have already been done. The Eloy injury only increases his leverage.
Remember when the Phillies rushed to judgment and signed Kingery to a long-term deal before it was revealed Kingery is a terrible baseball player? Let’s hope this isn’t a similar situation.
You guys are pissed when they’re sent down, and still pissed when they make teams. Make up your minds people.
This*^^^
Who’s pissed? I have only seen good, optimistic posts. I’m just happy for him.
@sam00991
Maybe he is bracing for those who post on here later.
Complaining about complainers…irony is my favorite.
Not me. I love them being sent down. 7 years is better than 6. Especially if hey extend playoffs. Regular season won’t matter. This case they need a bat so if he is ready to go then.
Hi Connor,
Can you change from ‘five to six months’ to ‘four to five months’ in the sentence?
“It became easier to envision Vaughn making Chicago’s season-opening roster when the club received the devastating news of Jimenez’s ruptured pectoral tendon last week. Jimenez underwent surgery Tuesday and remains likely to miss at least ‘five to six months'”,
same difference
@DarkSide830
Now I’m curious to see if Connor changes it. I would LMFAO if he actually does change it.
i mean i appreciate accuracy and all but its obvious he’s going to be out a while either way.
This is a great move for the team & a greater move to show their loyalty to a player.
Excited to see this guy, heard a lot about him. He’s going to be a great asset for WSox when he’s ready for MLB. Like to see they’re aren’t afraid to call up the youth and give him a shot, in spite of the service time impacts.
Man.
The white sox have more DH’s than the Yankees.
Guys having baseballs bouncing off their heads…slapstick, man.
From what I’m hearing Vaughn is another…mmmm…say, defensively challenged player. Their only good defensive players are a couple of punch & judy hitters.
At this point, I’m not too concerned about them as competition for the pennant. They still haven’t developed that true usable quality depth. That takes time. Look. Hamilton is not only going to break camp with them he’s going to be starting(!).
Zounds.
That’s – ya know – not what you want, as the wise man said.
Good call Bucky, Luis Robert (who could go 30-30 as soon as this year, and won GG last year), definitely a punch and judy hitter.
i wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of the cws “dh type” guys d improve greatly (and overall the team as well), i’ve watched tlr mange for years and one thing he is big on is perfecting the fundamentals. also tlr also know how to get the best out of his players that being said he will make moves that will leave you screaming at your tv.
I love those kind of players (power/speed).
Had to look him up at Savant & Fangraphs. He has more power than I’d thought. So had the wrong number a bit with him.
But…Madrigal? I’ll stand by that.
@brodie-bruce
That’s a fair point.
I’ve watched guys like Andujar somehow not become competent with the glove – nor show any tangible improvements – for years. Miggy works like a Spartan, too. It doesn’t seem like any amount of “coaching up” can really help him.
For some reason, certain players are just bad defensively.
@ducky not saying there ever going to be gg’ers under tlr, but more as serviceable options in the field. being a “bench” guy on a tlr team isn’t a bad thing because tlr finds a way to get them at bats as long as you can play serviceable d
also some guys are beyond saving d wise like andujar just look at chris duncan (rip dunc… also i’m not ripping on duncs d he did that himself on his radio show)
Yeah.
Miggy has some issues that are insurmountable. I was a Joe G guy. Two things I find different about his squad’s as opposed to Boone’s: Girardi’ teams always played their butts off & were fundamentally sound.
But I just don’t know how much a manager can help a poor defensive player.
@ducky you can only help so much, but i also feel basic fundamentals are lost in today’s game, and if players spent just a little more time on basic fielding than the cage we might see some improvement to the overall play in the game.
Your larger point has merit, but Billy Hamilton is not going to be starting.
@Clipper, the best thing I’ve heard about him is his approach. He doesn’t have the contact skills of Madrigal, but also unlike Madrigal, he doesn’t swing at pitches out of the zone very often. He has a good eye, is willing to take a walk, and will wait for his pitch. There will be some adjustment period and slump in there, but I’m cautiously optimistic that he can post an OPS+ that’s above average for the year.
@Ducky, you’re right on the DH issue. I still have some hope for Eloy. He needs to temper his youthful exuberance a little, but he has the speed to be at least passable out there. Vaughn seems to have good hands out at first and will likely be there once Abreu hangs ’em up. That opens the door for Collins to platoon the DH with Grandal, Mercedes, whoever else has a hot bat.
If Eloy never improves with the glove, having Engel in RF (whom I’d rather have over Eaton because of the defense) would allow Robert to cheat over to LF and limit the area Eloy has to cover. It’s not ideal, but that bat’s so good that they’ll find a way to get it into the lineup.
Seems like the White Sox are the antithesis of the Cubs when it comes to service time manipulation.
Maybe. I’d say that makes the Cubs smarter (if no extension soon). The rules are the rules, the players agreed to it.
No idea why people get b*tthurt over this. A few weeks in minors may affect yr team negatively, but you get an extra year of control. It’s logic. Then again, feelings trump logic these days…everyone’s a victim, even athletes (who are the most entitled people on the earth)
You can go with that argument, but I bet in the next CBA the players get a change to the system which they wouldn’t be mad about if it wasn’t exploited so much and so heavily. You say logic trumps feelings well the logical thing to do is not to rock the boat so much you end up ruining a good thing.
yes athletes might be entitled and get money that we only dream of doesn’t make the current system ok. these guys are fighting for fair pay and service time considerations just like a working guy. now i’m not saying i feel sorry for these guys but i can see where there upset with the current rules, especially now a days if your 30+ your earning potential is cut down by at least a third.
I think the CBA will never be updated for this.. Why? Because the biggest voices in the union are the guys that: A) are already in the bigs, and B) lose their jobs earlier if these players are brought up earlier.. Otherwise the CBA would already have stricter rules against service time manipulation.
if the pa is smart they will address these issues, in the past this wasn’t a big issue for various reasons (the big 2 roids and dumb gm’s) but now gm’s aren’t paying players over 30 and most kids don’t hit fa until 30. also the pa needs the kids playing because the kids are paying the vets pension
In truth and reality, though… HOW do you “change the system?” The concept of service time isn’t going away unless you change the entire system for player compensation… and if the concept exists, it is going to be manipulated, regardless of the wording. What do you say – “a player can’t be sent to the minors if he’s MLB ready?” Who determines that, and by what criteria? As long as the idea of “service time” exists, and I just don’t see that going away, there is literally zero way to stop it from being manipulated.
I’m willing to bet the house that the moment the next CBA is signed (probably well before), each club will have a TEAM of attorneys scouring the agreement, looking for legal loopholes. That’s not just MLB, that’s how any business works.
How? Go look at the money Kris Bryant made through the arbitration process as opposed to what guys like Eloy Jimenez, Luis Robert, or Tim Anderson got in their “extensions”.
The Cubs would have actually been wiser to sign Bryant to one of those Rick Hahn deals, as Bryant would have likely made a lot less money.
I’d bet you anything Tim Anderson (6 years, $25M) wishes he could go through arbitration right now. He’d make 15-20M more throughout the life of that deal.
How benevolent of Chicago… extending players to contracts where they leave tens of millions on the table. Man, they are so nice!
It’s nice to see an organization like the White Sox not gaming the system to save money. Hopefully these players realize this when their big contracts come around and give them a bit of a discount for it.
Eh, the White Sox game the system to save money, just less obviously. Note the OF signings this offseason…
Lol sure, a discount.
yeah by that logic they should just sign the extentions
Sure. A discount. Like 14 years and $340 million. The Padres don’t manipulate service time either.
I don’t think they’ll get a discount, but they may get respect. If the Sox’ offer is otherwise equal, that may be the difference-maker. It may also help their efforts to sign international players, who will know that they’re less likely to be service-time manipulated into spending another year with the team before FA.
If I am a draftee, I want to be drafted by the White Sox. They have shown that they will not play games, are willing to push players into the majors within a years time and will offer a fair extension to ensure you are on the field. Truly proud to see this organization take the right path with so many young talents during this rebuild.
“will offer a fair extension”
I agreed with most of this until you got to this point. I don’t think these extensions are as “fair” as people are making them out to be. The White Sox are signing players to these deals when the player has little to no leverage to say no.
It’s not difficult to see what is possibly said to convince them… “this is life-changing money.” “The White Sox are taking on all of the risk.” Yada, yada, yada.
The truth is, the White Sox are playing the same game that sharky venture capitalists play: invest money in a bunch of startups, knowing that you’ll get a success rate of 75-80%, and the money you save on the successes will more than make up for the money you lost on the failures.
Notice how, so far, the White Sox haven’t missed on one of these deals? Their fans will make you believe it’s just the White Sox handing out cash to every player walking through their system. But what they are doing is just like above… they know that the players they are giving money to are legitimately talented players who will contribute. So they take the risk on a few of them, knowing that even if Eloy never plays another game, the money they are saving on Anderson, Moncada, Bummer, and Robert (and others down the road, likely including Vaughn), will more than make up for it.
This isn’t benevolence. At all.
What type of revisionist history is this?
Glad they won’t hold back Vaughn, but this is a flat-out falsehood. This is the first time in years they HAVEN’T played games.
Would be a great story if Nick Williams makes his way onto this roster early in the season and secures the LF job until Jimenez comes back.
i would love to see that but i think this closes the door on that.
Why would that be a “great story” for a guy with a career OPS+ of 92, and the best of that based on 343 plate appearance in 2017?
Maybe not a National media story, but one that would warm the hearts of Phillies fans. Nick was the prize return in the Cole Hamels deal, a former top prospect that fell off. Had personal struggles as well, trying to overcome the loss of his brother with whom he was very close to. Nick was depressed and even considered giving up on baseball, so therefore I believe it would be a nice story.
Good to give him a chance.
Please welcome the American League Rookie of the Year to the Chicago White Sox!
I wouldn’t bet against it. This kid has a good head on his shoulders and can rake.
I’d take the field against Vaughn. You have Arozarena (who I predict falls off from last year, but is still the early season favorite, at least), Kelenic, Kiriloff, and Witt. Plus, there’s usually a surprise rookie or two, like Kyle Lewis was last year. Vaughn has a shot at winning it, but he has some stiff competition.
AND
Soon to be selected………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
RICKY VAUGHN !!
@nentwigs
Funny thing is Andrew Vaughn has stated he wants #99 because of Ricky Vaughn.
They have Jake Lamb on their roster. Full stop. You leave Vaughn off the roster that would be per se service time manipulation.
Who backs up Anderson at SS?
Leury Garcia. Can call up Mendick later if needed.
The way I read the article is that if Vaughn stays up without going down to AAA this season for a stretch then the White Sox lose a year of his services. Also read that he has never played above A ball. I think somebody that’s reasonable would say there’s a good chance of him going down in May or June if he is struggling and Engel is back at full speed. It’s great that he did well in spring training however what was the caliber of the pitchers that he was facing? I’m a White Sox fan and also a realist. This kid has been rushed through the system. Anyone that doesn’t expect him to have a hiccup or two or three doesn’t know baseball. Unless he’s mashing expect him to go down at some point this year and the Sox will not lose that year of eligibility. Since Vaughn really doesn’t have a position on the field that he excels at the White Sox might not be as quick to buy him out like they were with other players recently.
Good view.
They will be fine as long as they do not tinker with him to be a player he is not, see Gordon Beckham for reference. I do not know how else you explain how a kid, who never played 3rd, played third, played it well and hit well as well. Then tried to make him a home run hitter even though he looked better as a 10-15 homer guy with the ability to hit in the gaps for doubles.
@RJ Narvick
I have a feeling they will extend him well before he’s arb eligible, which will make time manipulation meaningless. But good point, it’s still a definite possibility until (or even if) an extension happens.
I’m guessing the White Sox bench will have Leury Garcia, Billy Hamilton, Zack Collins, and Yermin Mercedes. Vaughn probably playing LF with Lamb DH/1B against righties and Mercedes/Grandal DH against lefties
If Lamb is at first, there is something woefully wrong with the White Sox on those days or the Sox have a 10 run lead going into the 9th.
It’s called depth.
Wait, wait, evil business leaders manipulate service time to take advantage of workers blah blah blah….
Hyped! As a former teammate it’s awesome to see anyone come out of Sonoma County. Hope he succeeds, one of the best college bats in recent memory definitely deserves a chance to leapfrom the minors.
Rebuild White Sox send him down. Contending White Sox keep him up. Good decision. Chisox are not messing around and the kid earned it.
Other teams should be taking notes on how to take care of their players. The Cubs would have sent him down for the extra year of control and when he’d finally be close to free agency they would low ball him. The White Sox are running a top notch franchise right now. As a Cubs fan I’m jealous.
This whole “service time manipulation” thing is such a farce. It happens to one or two players, tops, in a season, if even that. And all of those players are so legitimately talented that it typically doesn’t matter.
In fact, every one of these “manipulated” players stand to make more money than nearly all of the White Sox top prospects that were signed to extensions.
Kris Bryant, over his first 6 years of baseball, has made more money than Eloy Jimenez’s 6-year extension is worth. Again, I expect this to be the case of all the notable “service time manipulation” cases.
So. when a player makes more money being “manipulated” than they do by being on the White Sox, who is the bad one?
This entire post is nonsense.
Who are you referring to? Me or Steve?
You’re cherry-picking your info. Think about Rodon. Had he gotten a big-money extension before he made his debut, he’d be laughing all the way to the bank. Way more money for him. There are a bunch of other players who, whether due to injury or just not making adjustments, have not lived up to their top prospect status. But you’re not thinking about the risk the Sox are taking, only about how much the players are potentially giving up. Risk deserves the possibility of a reward. The Sox have been fortunate that these deals have so far seemed to work in their favor, but there’s no guarantee that that trend continues or even that their current long-term extension players continue to perform.
Of course there’s risk. But you’re also overstating it. There’s also risk in NOT signing players to these deals.
Risk #1: You sign the player to an extension and he gets severely hurt or completely tanks.
Risk #2: You DON’T sign the player to an extension and he makes a boatload more money through arbitration.
Let’s use Tim Anderson as an example. His extension was 6 years, $25M. If he gets hurt or fails to live up to the contract, the White Sox lose a decent chunk of change. Probably about 10-15M, max, realistically, closer to about 5M.
If you don’t, and you get Anderson to go to arbitration each Spring (or exchange numbers through the process), he’s on a path to make way, way more than 25M. So the White Sox clearly felt that the greater loss would be taken through Risk Option #2, and thus, a deal was made.
There’s a reason they sign certain prospects to these deals and not all of them. It’s risk management.
But that doesn’t make them a benevolent team. They are doing these moves from the perception of future team value, not to do right by the players. As I’ve said before, it’s no different than holding a player back for service time purposes (of which the White Sox have done before), it’s just packaged differently and you’re not willing (or able) to see the difference.
Your post. Manipulation is real, and it has been spectacular. So much so, that it was a reason an executive was fired from his job – he pretty much admitted to it.
How much a player does or does not make is irrelevant. Teams hold down players to get an extra year of control, which costs them money on the front end, and the back end, because you make less the older you are.
“Manipulation is real, and it has been spectacular. So much so,”
It’s so spectacular and “so much so” that you offered up one case. The most notable case. Does it exist? Yes, of course it does. Is it as prevalent, and nefarious, as you suggest? I’m not convinced. Feel free to offer up more than one person admitting to it, and I’d be happy to reconsider.
The farcical part is White Sox fans who think their team is acting in this super benevolent manner by just promoting players because “it’s the right thing to do”. They are promoting Andrew Vaughn out of necessity, and likely, it’s likely that they will try and use this “generosity” for yet another pathetically team-friendly extension deal on him.
The Kris Bryant comment was to show that, as nefarious as White Sox fans paint the “service-time manipulation” to be, he’s doing far, far better than any of the cases of “generosity” from the White Sox.
I’m sure if Anderson was asked today which he’d pick: his 6/25M deal, or the same situation as Kris Bryant, he’d take his service time manipulated every time. Every time.
I didn’t offer more cases because I don’t have time to do so. That’s how often it happens. But you can start last year with Nick Madrigal. The idea that he was held down because He needed more polish was a joke. Madrigal was ready in mid-summer 2019. As was Eloy Jimenez.
Eloy played ball and signed an extension. Madrigal didn’t, so he was sent down.
Pretty much the only team that hasn’t done this with a ready prospect is the Padres.
When does he get added to the 40 man roster??
Soon…….. As soon as they decide who they want to drop off of the current 40 man.
I am not even a Sox fan but damn, they have built a formidable offence
I do not understand the thought process of those who believe that the Sox will gain anything with regards to future negotiations by not sending Vaughn down for a few weeks for service time issues. While I applaud the Sox for forsaking the potential extra year for the sake of putting the best players on the active roster, it is just a PR move to say that they are making the move to show respect to the player. The Sox know that this move will mean very little or nothing at all when it comes to negotiating the first long term contract for Vaughn. Flash forward to 2026 or 2027 when it will be time to start thinking what Vaughn will do with regards to extending or entering the FA market. If Vaughn pans out as expected and is a star by then, he, with the advice of his agent will most certainly opt to hit the open market. If the Yanks, Angels, Dodgers, Padres, and others are offering much more than the White Sox, do you really think that he and his agent will actually will be thinking about 2021 and the White Sox were nice and did not send him down and let him seek a huge contract one year sooner? The only thing that the will be thinking is “Thank you Sox for letting this opportunity cone to me now instead of having to wait another year.”. I highly doubt that they Vaughn will be thinking “Hey, The Sox gave me this opportunity a year early. I guess I should turn down all of those bigger contracts and take less than I could just to be nice back”. You can bet the MLBPA will be pushing him not to give the discount too., This move will not and should not mean a thing to future negotiations from a pure business standpoint. Remember, this is a business. and both sides will be treating it as such.
You’re assuming contract negotiations only happen once a player hits FA. They have a six year exclusive negotiating window. I agree it won’t be a difference maker, but I think it’s wrong to say this has absolutely zero effect on his affinity to the White Sox organization.
I never said it would have any effect on his affinity to the White Sox organization. In fact he will love them for not costing him a year longer to reach free agency. Never said it would stop any contract negotiations. All I said was that people that think the generosity extended by the White Sox would make a bit of difference in those negotiations are dead wrong. It will not help close the deal any faster than if they held him out for the few weeks. It will come down to what he and his agent perceive his future value to be and if the Sox are in the ball park. If they believe extending Sox control, especially into his FA years would ultimately cost Vaughn money, they will not agree to an extension just because the Sox were nice to Vaughn in 2021. If the Sox were to send him down to gain the extra year of control but offer Vaughn a very good deal that the player and agent agree compensates Vaughn for his future value, then they would not refuse to sign just because of the temporary demotion. Just pointing out it really doesn’t matter with regards to the Sox chances to extend at a future date.
@gozurman1
Perhaps White Sox Executive Vice President Kenny Williams could change your “thought process of those who believe that the Sox will gain anything with regards to future negotiations by not sending Vaughn down for a few weeks for service time issues”.
Per the organization top front office executive via soxmachine.com/2021/03/24/extension-or-not-andrew-…:
“We understand the service-time issue that plays here,’’ Williams said, “but our feeling is that when you’re ready to help the major-league club, there’s a spot for you. We’re trying to put the best team out there. We have proven that over and over again.
“I think there is a residual effect if you play those type of service-time games. As a former player, maybe I’m a little more sensitive to it than others. If you do that, the player and the agent don’t forget any time soon. Should you want to negotiate a contract down the line, or the guy becomes a free agent, I think that works against you.’’
I just do not believe it is a huge difference maker. I don’t think it really helps if you start the clock sooner. Like I said, I don’t think that the player will accept anything less than they believe is market value just because they did not play the extra year of control game. If you have someone who is the type of person who will hold a grudge no matter what yes the player will never forget. If Vaughn has that personality trait, I believe that he will hold anything as a grudge no matter what then. If the Sox do not give up huge raises in the pre arb years, he will likely hold a grudge over that too and never wish to extend. over that.,
White Sox fans love to act like the teams that “manipulate” service time are so nefarious, but they routinely ignore that most of the players in these cases have well-exceeded, financially, what any of the non-manipulated players from the White Sox have made.
Look at Kris Bryant’s earnings vs the extensions of Luis Robert or Eloy Jimenez, or worse Tim Anderson. For as awful as the Cubs were to Kris Bryant, he’s far exceeded the AAVs of any of those deals.
This doesn’t justify what the Cubs did, because Bryant could be making quite a bit more through free agency, but it certainly sheds light to the fact that the White Sox aren’t being all that generous here.
For Vaughn’s sake, I hope he refuses to sign that extension (it’ll be offered sooner or later) and takes the White Sox through the arbitration process. I hope he’s super expensive, too.
JohnJaso- I remember when Frank Thomas wanted an extension and Jerry put one forward and advised Frank not to sign it. But Frank signed it and within the next year he regretted it.
Bryant took all the risk of either a serious injury or just outright failure to produce. If Jimenez is never the same I’m sure he’d be happy he took the extension. No one is forcing these young guys to sign.
In the case of Bryant, even if the Cubs would not have sent him back down that first year and no matter what he got paid by the Cubs in his pre arb years, he still would be heading to FA after this year and with Boras as his agent, there never would have been an extension for him even to cover the Arb years. The generosity would make no difference to Bryant or Boras as they would be hitting the market and taking the highest bid. The generosity would not make it any easier to get the contract with the Cubs. If I were in the player’s shoes, I would be treating it as a business just like the clubs would be doing.
“No one is forcing these young guys to sign.”
Well, no one is exactly giving them a lot of leverage, either. Saying, “hey, you’re probably worth 80M, but I’m going to only offer you 40M” isn’t as generous as you might think it is, especially when that player has no other options to get 80M from anyone else.
Intentionally and willfully underpaying someone because they have zero leverage isn’t benevolent. And defending it with “no one is forcing them to take it” is a lousy justifier for lousy behavior.
Benevolence has nothing to do with it. It’s a strategic financial risk decision made by both sides. Neither side owes either anything. Projection is not worth, it’s only a factor in determining risk.
The point of this whole article is about Kenny Williams feigning some level of benevolence toward his player. This idea that it’s just the right thing to do. But it’s awfully convenient that the right thing to do always benefits them financially, don’t you think?
Of course there’s risk all around on both sides. Welcome to literally every free agent deal or player extension ever. But if you’re honestly suggesting that future value (which is pretty much exclusively projection) isn’t factored into the worth of a player’s contract, then I don’t know what to tell you… maybe read a little more about baseball?
The White Sox aren’t just giving Tim Anderson 25M on a whim. They likely project him as a player who’ll make 40-50M through arbitration years, and thus, they want to avoid paying as much of that as possible. Coincidentally, if we value players at just 6M/WAR, Anderson has already tripled the value of that contract, with two years remaining.
Turns out, their (likely) projection was right and they aren’t paying Tim Anderson anywhere near what he should be paid. They’ve been right about almost all of these contracts so far. Crazy how that happens!
It’s almost like baseball owners want to hold onto as much of their money as they possibly can. Isn’t that the exact same reason they hold players back for an extra year of service… to hold onto a player without paying him as much as they have to?
The White Sox aren’t any better than other teams. They just hide it better. And apparently, they’ve done a pretty good job of fooling you into thinking they are different. Congrats!
Not really. It’s part of the collective bargaining agreement. The players give up stuff, and the owners give up stuff. You can do stuff to get more money for the kids, but the owners will expect someone back in return.
In this case, the veterans sold out the kids. That happens at a lot of unions.
There is no suggestion of benevolence. Williams is simply saying that giving Vaughn a shot, right now, is the best course for the team. He can send him down after a month of poor performance and still be true to his word. What you are reading and what you want to read are obviously a bit different. Lol
The reason Vaughn is on the team is because TLR wanted him on the team.
It’s pretty clear he has great pull over the roster, and at his age, he probably didn’t care or want to hear about making sure Vaughn is on the roster when He is back in retirement. Eloy getting hurt cemented it.
You think Jake Lamb is on the roster because Hahn loved him?