The Astros will be playing in the World Series for the third time in five seasons, though only six players remain from that 2017 championship team, and only four of that group (minus the injured Lance McCullers Jr. and the non-rostered Marwin Gonzalez) actually appeared in Houston’s ALCS victory over the Red Sox. While the Astros continue to rely on some familiar cornerstones of that controversial 2017 team, there has been quite a bit of roster overhaul over a relatively short period of time, not to mention a new manager and GM in the wake of the sign-stealing scandal.
Proving that there is no one way to design a great team, the Astros used several different methods of transactions to collect their players. Perhaps just as importantly, the Astros have been able to retain key talents through contract extensions, or by re-signing players once they reach free agency. Here is the breakdown of how the Astros built their latest pennant winner….
Homegrown, international signings: Jose Altuve (2007), Framber Valdez (2015), Jose Urquidy (2015), Cristian Javier (2015), Luis Garcia (2017)
Landing a franchise second baseman, three members of a starting rotation, and a key swingman via the international signing market is impressive enough. But, the Astros’ feat stands out even more considering that none of these five players were considered blue-chip prospects at the time of their signings, and were signed for merely thousands of dollars.
Altuve’s legend is well-known by this point, as the diminutive second baseman was inked for a modest $15K bonus and has now become a Houston sports icon. The savings extended into Altuve’s first multi-year deal (a four-year pact worth $12.5MM in guaranteed money plus club options for 2018 and 2019) but Altuve then scored a much bigger payday with his second extension, a five-year/$151MM pact that runs through the 2024 campaign.
Going forward, the Astros’ international investment in their pitching corps might be an even more important overall development than landing Altuve. Valdez, Urquidy, Garcia, and Javier combined for a 3.38 ERA over 498 1/3 innings, and all four pitcher are controlled through at least the 2025 season. The quartet has already become an integral part of one contending team, and considering the veteran losses the Astros could face in free agency this offseason, Houston can feel some level of comfort in already having a new wave of arms already in place.
Homegrown, amateur draft: Jason Castro (2008 draft, first round, 10th pick), Carlos Correa (2012 draft, 1-1), Alex Bregman (2015, 1-2), Kyle Tucker (2015, 1-5), Jake Meyers (2017, 13-391), Chas McCormick (2017, 21-631).
Let’s begin with the caveat of Castro, who began his career in Houston through the lean years of the team’s rebuild, but left for the Twins as a free agent in the 2016-17 offseason — just before the Astros broke through to reach the Fall Classic. Castro returned to Houston this past winter, signing a two-year, $7MM free agent contract.
There is also McCullers (the 41st overall pick of the 2012 draft), a huge part of the Astros’ regular season success in 2021 but whose postseason has been marred and possibly ended by injury. Brandon Bielak (2017, 11-331) also threw 50 innings mostly as a reliever in 2021, but hasn’t been included on Houston’s postseason rosters.
Center field was seen as a weak link for the Astros in the wake of George Springer’s departure in free agency, yet the team ended up getting very solid production from Myles Straw for much of the season, and then from the rookie tandem of Meyers and McCormick when Straw was dealt at the trade deadline. Meyers is another injury absence from the ALCS, so McCormick and Jose Siri look to be handling center field duties during the World Series.
That leaves the three gems of the Astros’ extensive rebuild, as the club made no pretense about its intent to bottom out with multiple losing seasons in order to restock with premium young talent at the top of the draft. Hard as it may seem now, but Correa was actually seen as a bit of a surprise as the first overall pick in 2012, as the Astros took a more “signable” player so they could spread out their draft bonus money on other picks. With both Correa and McCullers developing into stars, that plan worked to perfection.
Tanking for multiple years gave Houston multiple chances to score on high draft picks, which is why the Astros haven’t really suffered any consequences for drafting consecutive 1-1 picks (Mark Appel in 2013, Brady Aiken in 2014) who didn’t reach the majors. Indeed, after not reaching an agreement with Aiken due to concerns over his UCL health, the Astros received the second overall pick in the 2015 draft as compensation. The result was the selection of both Bregman and Tucker within the first five picks, which stands out as one of the more impressive first-round hauls in recent memory.
International free agent signings: Yuli Gurriel (July 2016)
While Altuve and company turned out to be incredible bargains on the international amateur market, the Astros had to pay Gurriel $47.5MM on a five-year deal, outbidding several teams for the Cuban star as he made the jump to Major League Baseball. Gurriel didn’t make his big league debut until he was 32 years old, and while there has been some inconsistency along the way, Gurriel has proven to be a very solid contributor, with a .293/.337/.467 slash line over 2721 career plate appearances in The Show.
Despite a lackluster 2020 season, Gurriel still received a contract extension in late September 2020, giving Houston control over Gurriel in 2021 (for a $6.5MM salary) and 2022 (a club option worth $8MM, with a $500K buyout). The extension surprised many at the time, though it has proven to be one of GM James Click’s canniest moves, as Gurriel rebounded with the best season of his six-year MLB career and won the AL batting title. Unsurprisingly, Astros owner Jim Crane has already implied that Gurriel will be back with the team via that club option.
Free agent signings: Michael Brantley, Jake Odorizzi, Ryne Stanek, Jose Siri
Brantley signed a two-year, $32MM deal to join the Astros in the 2018-19 offseason, and then re-signed with the club for that exact same contract this past winter. While Brantley missed some time with relatively minor injuries this season, he has still been a productive hitter, adding to the success of his overall tenure in Houston. Brantley has hit .310/.367/.474 with 35 home runs over 1332 PA in an Astros uniform, twice receiving All-Star nods.
The Marlins non-tendered Stanek (rather than pay him a projected $800K) in the wake of a mediocre 2020 performance. The Astros swooped in with a $1.1MM deal and ended up landing a controllable reliever who bounced back pretty nicely with a 3.42 ERA and 28.6% strikeout rate over 68 1/3 innings, though Stanek’s control and hard-contact numbers weren’t impressive. Stanek has stood out as a workhorse in the playoffs, with a 1.35 ERA over eight appearances and 6 2/3 innings during Houston’s run.
Odorizzi was another signing from the most recent offseason, though Odorizzi didn’t sign his $23.5MM contract until March. Between missing part of the usual Spring Training ramp-up and then suffering multiple injuries, Odorizzi’s innings were managed for much of the season, though he did contribute a 4.21 ERA over 104 2/3 frames. Thus far in the postseason, Odorizzi has only pitched in one game, tossing four innings in relief of Garcia in the Astros’ 9-5 loss to the Red Sox in Game 2 of the ALCS.
Siri was a minor league signing who had never played as much as a game in the majors until this past September 3, and now he’ll very likely to be headed to the World Series as Meyers’ replacement. Siri played seven seasons in the Reds’ farm system (and was briefly a Mariner and a Giant via waiver claims) before signing with the Astros this past winter, and he posted a .956 OPS in his first 49 PA as a big leaguer.
Trades: Justin Verlander hasn’t thrown a pitch this season due to Tommy John surgery, and his tenure with the Astros could be over if he signs elsewhere in free agency this winter. Verlander is certainly worthy of mention, of course, given his huge role in the 2017 World Series after the Astros nabbed him from the Tigers on August 31, 2017, and how Verlander then re-upped with Houston on a two-year, $66MM extension. (Unfortunately, Verlander has thrown only six innings over the course of that extension.)
Beyond the injured Verlander, ten players on the ALCS roster were acquired via trade…
- Yordan Alvarez: As this section indicates, the Astros are no strangers to notable deals at the trade deadline. However, this one from 2016 drew only a little attention at the time, yet picking up Alvarez from the Dodgers for reliever Josh Fields has turned out to be one of the steals of the decade. Alvarez has looked like one of baseball’s best hitters when healthy, and just earned ALCS MVP honors for his huge series against Boston.
- Zack Greinke: Completed just under the buzzer at the 2019 trade deadline, Houston acquired Greinke from the Diamondback for a four-prospect package of J.B. Bukauskas, Josh Rojas, Corbin Martin, and Seth Beer. Rojas was the least-regarded of the four youngsters at the time, though he has gone on to enjoy the most success thus far at the big league level. Greinke has been mostly solid, if generally not quite up to his past ace-level performance during his two-plus seasons in Houston, and his strikeout rate took a big dip in 2021. While Greinke tossed 171 innings, some injuries late in the season has turned him into something of a depth arm on the playoff roster, as Greinke has thrown only 2 1/3 innings this postseason.
- Martin Maldonado: A two-time trade acquisition, the Astros first landed Maldonado from the Angels a few days’ prior to the 2018 deadline, then brought him back on deadline day 2019 after Maldonado had played with the Royals and Cubs earlier that season. Maldonado has become a Houston fixture, as the team has signed him to a pair of contract extensions that will keep him in the fold until at least the end of the 2022 season.
- Aledmys Diaz: The versatile Diaz has been a valuable utility piece for the Astros since being acquired from the Blue Jays in November 2018.
- Ryan Pressly: The right-hander was already an underrated reliever during his time with the Twins, but he took it to another level after the Astros landed him in a July 2018 trade. Pressly signed an extension prior to the 2019 season that now stands as a three-year, $27.5MM deal after Pressly unlocked a vesting option to guarantee his salary for 2022 season — a $10MM price the Astros are surely happy to cover given how well Pressly has pitched.
- Basically The Entire Bullpen: The Pressly trade is the headline move, and Houston has generally looked to the trade market in assembling its relief corps. Blake Taylor was acquired as part of the Jake Marisnick trade with the Mets in December 2019, while fellow southpaw Brooks Raley was picked up from the Reds in August 2020. The Astros targeted bullpen help in three separate trades near this year’s deadline, including the surprising acquisition of Kendall Graveman and (the now-injured) Rafael Montero from the AL West rival Mariners. The emergence of McCormick and Meyers gave the Astros enough comfort to trade Straw to the Indians for Phil Maton, as well as another young outfielder in Bryan De La Cruz and a swingman in Austin Pruitt to the Marlins for Yimi Garcia. Graveman has been the best of the new faces in both the regular season and playoffs, while Maton has added some key innings in the postseason.
cant wait for the first trash can comment. i expect it to be very cool and original.
It appears the first trash can comment was you right here.
If the Braves win one of their next 2 home games and MLBTR doesn’t do an article on “How The Braves Built Their NL Championship Team” I’m gonna call bias. I’m kind of just joking because I believe they will. I’m only just thinking they will though. I am certain they will make an article like this if the Dodgers win it. To be honest, every league and World Series Championship deserves one. I’m not a Nationals fan but I was very surprised when the Nationals won it all and they didn’t make one of these for them. Now they’ve set the standard though. Every LCS Champion & World Champion deserves their own article on how the front office and players accomplished it. I just want to see it happen for every LCS/WS champion team regardless of payroll or market size. I already know they will do it for the Dodgers if they win the National League. Let’s see them do it for a smaller city and payroll like the Braves if they win it. I think MLBTR will do that though. As much as people around here complain about them sometimes I think MLBTR is really solid. I’m hoping and believing they will treat all teams equally based on accomplishment and not payroll or market size as soon as the team accomplishes a League or World Championship like the Astros just did.
okay then
The Astros were the first to clinch. That’s probably why they got the first article.
Yeah. Makes sense. They deserved to get this first one. I’m hoping it is actually the first and not the only. The Braves locked it up about 15 hours ago now so they still have some time to treat everyone equally. In 2019 there was almost zero acknowledgement of the Nationals winning which really surprised me at the time. A lot of people said they just didn’t do that because the site was really more about roster moves. That made sense but clearly with this article they are starting to do it now. I just hope it continues.
Bang the drum slowly!
They built it from the sewer system on up
Dark,
Rubbermaid Park will be rocking again in late October!
What year were the trash cans and buzzers selected?
Very cool and original.
2014
2014- before their scapegoat, Alex Cora, was hired
*escapegoat
scapegoat? you mean the same guy who cheated in Boston? no, he was certainly a part of it.
A part? He was one of two leaders, he devised the system. Him and Carlos Beltran (who came from the Yankees the only player that was identified in the report)
Tatsumaki is just a bitter troll. Ignore him/her/it.
What’s up, @goastros123.
No problem with you guys bouncing the sox. Hat tip on winning the pennant.
Go Braves, though
How’s it going, Ducky? Thanks, man. I want a Astros vs Braves World Series. By the way, got a job helping cancer patients so I’m getting paid again.
Man, I wish everyone left would just somehow lose.
From vets to cancer patients. Now *that* deserves a real hat tip. & congrats on the new gig, of course.
Astros are the most complete ballclub left. Perhaps if you guys win, we can move on from the “cheating” stuff. It’s pretty played out by now. Which I’m sure you know, uh?
If anything, I want the Astros to embrace being villains, whether winning or losing. When Yordan hits a home run in an away game, him flexing at home plate in front of a hostile crowd would be a sight to see. People are gotta hate them no matter what so have some fun with it.
Personally I’m sick of all the theatrics that the players do these days. All the hand motions and whatnot, Correa doing his watch thing. When Eovaldi pitched out of a huge situation last night, he just calmly walked back to the dugout.
I see where you’re going with it.
Maybe have that little Altuve feller do cartwheels around the bases after hitting a HR.
Lol, this made me giggle, Ducky.
Calmly? He was screaming like the Incredible Hulk!
Hey.
If someone can imagine that & not laugh they have a heart of pure ice.
astrosfan – Why must you make things up like that? (to put it nicely)
If you’re gonna call BS on someone, at least make damn sure you’re right.
Otherwise, I’ll bring it …. like this:
mlb.com/video/nathan-eovaldi-escapes-jam
From the time he released the pitch, until he walked into the dugout, he did a quick “yeah” and that was it.
No theatrics. No grandstanding. Cool and professional.
Ducky gets it.
Ducky – Now don’t be a heightist.
I have that pic of Altuve and Embiid on the wall of my office, everyone thinks it’s photoshopped.
Ducky – While I agree people shouldn’t be obsessed with it, there’s no way it can or should be totally forgotten.
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
Hey, my team got caught cheating during the 2018 regular season. I don’t try to squash it, I’m not proud of it, I own it.
You think for one minute anyone has forgotten Jeffrey Maier? And it shouldn’t be forgotten, it was one of the darkest moments in baseball history.
I have experienced heightism my entire life. No one cares that the showerhead or sink is too low. Or that lightbulbs in basements could blind me. & cars? C’mon, man. Totally controlled by shorty.
No.
My whole life I’ve been told that’s “just how the world is”. I’ve been ignored in all of my special talldude needs. Well, no more, man!
I’m tall & proud!
Down with shorty!
I have visions of your employer assigning you a Mazda MX-5 Miata company car.
Not the convertible.
Lord.
Who would hire me? I’m pretty much stuck with the best/worst boss ever: me.
So I luxuriate in my politically incorrect large SUV’s. I’m taking the fight right to shorty, @FPGuy.
Ducky, it’s the tyranny of the middle. Short guys get the short end too. At least you’ve got Big & Tall stores. I’ve yet to see a Short & Small store.
I will re-think my recently adopted Hard Stance.
& who the hell wants to be average anyway.
I’m doubly blessed: Left-handed and short.
Well Ducky, I sure do hope you remembered to give yourself a card and gift for Boss’s Day last Saturday.
Otherwise, you won’t be kind when you give yourself your annual review next year.
Your club is going to the World Series, lefty.
Beat the Astros.
And I’m ecstatic. Go Braves! For the record, if the Braves had lost I’d be cheering for the Dodgers.
bhambrave – They do have special places for Short & Small clothing.
It’s called the Boys Department, and the prices are even cheaper!
Why would you own something that was never proven about a team you are a fan of? After many months of investigating the 2018 Red Sox, MLB admitted in their report that they have a “factual dispute” and they “largely do not have direct evidence” of cheating. There was no evidence and MLB relied on “inferences” (which are guesses) to conclude the Red Sox cheated. JD Martinez was correct when he said they didn’t find anything. The fact is not one single instance of cheating could be documented and they admit that the facts are in dispute. If people are going to label someone a cheater, they need to identify at least one specific incident of cheating which MLB clearly failed to do. I can only guess that MLB made some inferences without evidence so the didn’t look dumb for opening the investigation. I guess you and I will always disagree on this.
Totally agree Fever. just mentioned yesterday that Verdugo’s baby rocking was cute because he was a proud dad but I don’t want to see it next year. That routine of the pitcher before every pitch was another annoying thing I could do without. it had to be self-taught either to get attention or to deceive the batter. it certainly didn’t look normal.
Think about it. If the MLB had confirmed the Red Sox cheating, this would have only furthered the theories that more teams besides the Astros had been cheating. (Which almost, if not all, other teams were doing at the time). It would have confirmed to the media and the public that MLB has a systemic problem. Having barely come through the steroid issue they needed to build credibility with the public so they scapegoated the Astros and looked the other way for other teams. Admitting the Sox cheated would have forced them to a deeper and much more public audit and investigation. Did everyone forget the Sox and Yankees both were caught cheating and fined during the same season the Astros did it?
Wrong, the Apple Watch incident.
The Red Sox were scapegoated in the media just like the Astros because MLB did “find” that the Red Sox “on at least some occasions” illegally stole signs. So, MLB did in fact label the 2018 Red Sox cheaters while also admitting there is a “factual dispute” and they “largely do not have direct evidence”. They couldn’t nail down any occasions. If you read the investigation report, it looks like they were really trying to nail down evidence as people were interviewed multiple times including Manfred himself interviewing people. The commissioner actually commended the 2018 Red Sox in the investigation report for their efforts to instill a culture of compliance with new sign stealing rules. It looks like the Red Sox did not want a repeat of 2017.
I am talking about the 2018 Red Sox. The apple watch incident was in 2017. There is actually evidence for the 2017 incident. They were fined for texting signs from the video room next to the dugout to the dugout. I have wondered if texting was actually quicker than having someone run next door with the sign info. I guess it was and that’s why they stuck with it.
The Red Sox were simply caught and got a slap on the wrist. They were not scapegoated. I don’t hear anyone booing Red Sox players when they play on the road, or anyone commenting and complaining on threads like this about the Sox. Cora did not receive any further punishment for his actions with the Sox, and indeed they only fired some patsy in the video department for the whole incident. Hardly the same as what happened to the Astros.
The Red Sox were caught illegally using an apple watch in 2017. As for 2018, MLB’s report did not document any cheating incidents as I covered above. So, the Red Sox were not caught in 2018, yet they were labeled as cheaters by MLB. The Red Sox have gotten off easier than the Astros, but they still had their name dragged through the mud and people are still calling the 2018 Red Sox cheaters which is how this conversation started. MLB reached their conclusion without direct evidence and they admitted it. I think most fans of a team that this happened to would be upset. The problem is I don’t think many people read MLB’s report on the 2018 Red Sox. Looks like most people read articles that just said they were found to be cheating which is inaccurate. I think MLB’s “finding” of cheating and the light penalty was so they wouldn’t look dumb for opening the investigation. That’s the way it looks to me.
Just use them
I think we can safely put an end to the “they’re only good because they cheat” talk.
It’d be an amazing story to see Houston win their first ever real WS this year.
Freddie gonna get his ring
Yankees cheated their way to multiple WS Titles with drugged up, roided up players, but they get a pass?!
Unfortunately, I’m thinking almost everyone cheats anymore, some get caught, most don’t. Incredible amounts of money involved. It’s a sad state of affairs that cheating & lying seem to have become almost acceptable. “Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio, a nation turns it’s lonely eyes to you.”
The misplaced, obsessive hatred for all things Astros is fueled by an MLB mob with a mentality enslaved by the prevailing media narrative. The harassment, threats, and trolling that Astros players receive is astonishing.
A few points:
#1. In 2017, The Astros were a vastly more superior team on the road. than at home – their road record was among the best in MLB.
#2. A comprehensive analysis of the Astros clandestine cheating scheme revealed NO TANGIBLE BENEFITS. The Astros hitters actually performed better when they did not deploy the cheating scheme.
#3. MLB was well aware of the Astros scheme before the news broke; however, they did not take any action until the Media narrative exploded.
#4. The Astros patterned their failed cheating scheme after the Yankees and Red Sox.
Fans should know why the Astros’ punishment by MLB was so light.
The Astros most certainly deserved to have their title stripped regardless if the Team performed better without the cheating system. They still cheated – that undermines the integrity of the game.
However, stripping the Astros of their title would establish a precedent that could possibly lead MLB to rewrite its own history. The Yankee and, Red Sox – MLB’s most storied franchises, do not have untarnished reputations. Other teams have complained to MLB about them..
Current and former players have since come forward to talk about cheating that occurred in the game..
The Astros players nor RHP Mike Fiers deserve any of the hatred they receive from fans. I’m disappointed in Astros fans that express their contentment towards Mike Fiers.
Astros fans need to move on from 2017 and focus on the team’s future. Let the MLB mob of trolls define its fandom by its obsessive hatred for all things Astros. The Astros organization went through an unprecedented organizational overhaul with the arrival of GM James Click and Manager Dusty Baker. Dusty Baker is the best manager in Team history.
The team has a whole new identity – the coaches, the roster (only 4 players on the ALCS remaining from the 2017 team), new Baseball Operations Department, and reconfigured scouting department.. This team is most definitely not the Luhnow era Astros.
Despite losing draft picks, the Astros 2020 and 2021 MLB drafts along with the international signings infused the waning Astros minor league system with solid organizational depth.
I think there’s different levels of cheating, that’s the difference.
Like when all the teams used greenies. I had no problem with it, does it really matter where they get their energy from? And if everyone is using them, then nobody gains an advantage … so what’s the problem?
The Astros “reconfigured” the scouting department well before cheating scandal came to light. As for the coaching staff, while they do have a few different coaches, this is no different from other teams that routinely change coaches for various reasons. Every team suffers coaching turnover. Thirdly, the farm system has suffered as a result of the lost draft picks. They went from a top 5 farm system in 2018 to #28 or lower in 2021, depending on which ranking system you look at.
Great post.
I try to be fair, open-minded, and objective despite being an Astros fan.
My opinion is that all, or nearly all teams were doing some form of sign stealing ( which has been part of baseball since signs started and I think is not wrong).
When baseball gave notice during 2017 to cut it out, the contenders kept it up ( again, my opinion) and non contenders stopped because there was no benefit compared to penalty for them.
I DO think that based on technology and team philosophy the Astros were probably the worst offender.
I also feel that MLB only investigated because the media ( or public because of the media ) demanded it.
MLB wanted to make the smallest impact possible and sweep as much under the rug as possible.
The Astros screwed themselves because the players talked.
Other teams did not talk because they saw how Astros players were treated. Also they did not have a Fiers whistle blower.
And so Astros are villains ( partially, maybe even mostly deserved)
Fans are mostly ignorant and would rather just follow the pack and root for the villian rather than think about these other things.
But we can restart the “they’re only good because they tanked for years” talk. Say whatever you want about teams like the Yankees and Dodgers that spend big every year, but it’s TANKING that hurts the game even more (making it unwatchable), and at least the way they take advantage of the system is trying to win every year.
Baseball needs to put in safeguards against tanking. Not because it leads to teams like the Astros (to their credit they still had to draft well and sign the right complimentary players, something they did incredibly well)– but because having a team be completely unwatchable for YEARS is detrimental to the sport.
As a Yankee fan, the only thing about the Astros I hate now is Altuve (and maybe correa)– not just because they cheated, but because of how smug and unrepentent they were.
How hard would it have been to be even a LITTLE contrite? Something like “we crossed the line. At the time we saw other teams skirting the edges of the rules and it was easy to tell ourselves that each further step we took wasn’t cheating, but all those steps added up, and we regret it.” I don’t mind their self confidence in saying they were still a talented, good team that could have won without it, that’s all fine and fair.
But to act like they did absolutely nothing wrong and just act like general d-bags was too much.
That said, really it’s just Altuve and Correa that are left, so in a vaccuum it’s hard to hate guys like Alvarez and others because of indiscretions that predate them.
So what are the Yankees hiding in the letter they have fought so hard to keep sealed?
You have to realize how hilarious it is for a yankee fan to hate other players for being smug and unrepentant.
For sure!
Why the hell would I “hate” anyone for that?
Smug & unrepentant is my natural state.
Yeah, why can’t every team just spend like the Yankees and Dodgers! Oh…wait.
There is a reason teams tank. Blame the way MLB has set up the talent acquisition structure.
The “pot keeps calling the kettle black” here. The Yankees cheated their way to multiple World Series titles rolling out a team and roster with illegal roided up, drugged up players…
Where were the fines and suspensions and forfeited titles by the Yankees?!
What a double standard. Yankees= MUCH WORSE CHEATERS than the Astros.
every team was roided up back then and every team has always done everything they could to steal signs. those yankee teams were great to start with and had some post-season luck. these astro teams are great and unless altuve was wearing a buzzer i don’t see how cheating was a determining factor. altuve, springer, and bregman all hit better on the road in 2017 and correa only did a little better at home
Sportsfan 00000:
1) Many players in many teams had PED-using players, so the playing field was relatively similar.
2) To say “double standard” reflects ignorance because no team has done what the Astros did for multiple years, with a systematic cheating system that yielded a WS.
3) Thus, to say they’re “much worse” reflects a continuity of ignorance because by every standard, it wasn’t.
Yankee Clipper is correct: other teams have tried to do what the Astros did but 1. It wasn’t against the rules back then and 2. they didn’t win the world series. There is a certain letter about the Yankees, but honestly that could be about something else. Cheating isn’t the only way to damage a franchise’s reputation.
Maybe because the Astros knew the whole league was doing it. Hate us all you want but we own the yankees
This sign stealing garbage scandal is a joke. The entire sport was stealing signs electronically. The entire sport was using industrial glue to pitch. Astros were the fall guy so the league could save face. MLB was not going to bury its cash cow franchises.
Wiffle – Astros cheated in Game 1 and it likely helped them win the game. I’m talking about the ballboy incident. Inexcusable, MLB should come down hard on that sort of thing.
I just watched that incident now. I guess that was the cosmic tumbler payback for the bounce off Renfroe’s leg in the Rays series? It does beg the question: Where was the ball boy sitting when the Astros were up and did he ever have to get out of the way for one of their hits?
Remember the Kansas City Athletics? Major league farm system for the New York Yankees for a number of years.
baseball-almanac.com/corner/c042001b.shtml
whyhayzee – Exactly! I’ve seen plenty of fair balls go down the line in other ballparks and the ballperson ALWAYS got up and carried their bench to get out of the way.
That dude made ZERO effort to move his stool.
And why was he positioned further down the line where the wall juts out toward fair territory? He should be positioned a little closer to home plate, where the wall cuts into the crowd, so that he’s far away from the foul line.
So yes, I’d like to see them investigate where he is usually positioned and more importantly has he grabbed the stool and moved completely out of the way in the past when an Astro has hit a ball down there?
The Sox lost. Get over it and stop trying find conspiracy every time you lose.
They didn’t need to cheat, but they did. And that’s the issue. For 3 years at least this team was a total fraud. Altuve, Bergman, Correa, springer, etc all will be remembered for the cheating scandal. Anything else they do won’t overshadow the cheating. At least by the common fan. Media will try to avoid it to not look bad.
Unless they cheated this year…….
@cdaddy
We can change it to they’re good AND they cheat. Or how about They are good at cheating? You still hear about the Black Sox, and that’s been a century. Houston will own this for some time. Just the way it is.
The Yankees ought to be so embarrassed by by the Astros’ continuous success post – no longer cheating and post losing several great players in free agency. I tend to agree with the criticism that cheating could have cost the Yankees a WS appearance in 2017, but what’s their excuse now that the trash can is gone, Cole is on the Yankees, Verlander is out, and Springer on the Blue Jays?
Embarassed by a team that spent year after year intentionally sucking to get there?
The fact that you can’t give the Astros org credit beyond a few top picks shows how bias you are. You can’t chalk it down to tanking or else the Rockies, orioles and pirates would be in the WS every year. Give it a rest
Outstanding.
And yet the Yankees spent 100-200 million more on there players every year bought the best free agents in MLB and still didn’t get to the World Series! Hah
What’s this article have to do with the Yankees?
A little weird to include free agent signed Jason castro in the home grown section of how they built this championship team
Admittedly, yes. But Castro was drafted and developed by the Astros in the first place, and I explained his unique situation.
That group of international signings have to be among the best in the league. Somebody in that organization had a great eye for pitching talent a few years ago.
And then they got fired by Lunhow.
The whole series turned on the missed strike three call in the top of the ninth inning of game 4. From that point on, it was all Astros. The Red Sox got ripped off in that moment, but they didn’t show any hitting after that. Credit the Astros pitchers for making the adjustments. The better team won that series.
Funny how NOBODY EVER mentions the Red Sox getting pounded in 2017, it’s all yankees and Dodgers crying crocodile tears. Pathetic.
Anywho, hats off to the Astros, a great team. We will see if they can win their second World Championship.
As far as tanking, get serious. Teams like the yankees and the Dodgers are driving up player salaries to the untenable level for many franchises. THAT is far worse for baseball than tanking. No contest.
Yippee for the teams that can compete every year without a $200 million payroll and a lineup of superstars. Those are the real champions and the teams that make baseball great.
As you were.
One thing is for sure, Laz Diaz better not be behind the plate during any of the World Series games. He missed an incredible 23 calls in Game 4, the most of any umpire in any MLB game this season! Normally the average number of missed calls by all umpires is 8-9.
Why is Laz Diaz still a ML umpire? He’s ranked in the bottom 7% in accuracy.
Union.
Ducky – Yeah I understand, but in this day and age it really shouldn’t be hard to institute a policy that – at the very least – disqualifies an umpire from working the plate if his missed call percentage goes above a certain number.
Because thanks to technology, calling balls and strikes is one of the very few jobs where there’s no room for performance ambiguity. They have the ability to monitor exactly how many errors the plate umpire makes on balls and strikes.
I just can’t stand when an umpire’s bad call affects the outcome of a game.
The sucked for 10 years lol
And the Lolmets will suck forever lol
I already filed a grievance with NLB that the Nets weren’t allowed in the playoffs because of injuries and they are the rightful Stanley cup champs.
I was actually in a short bus but it wasn’t because of anything you say. They told me it was the only bus that went in my root… so.
This is the part Astros fans forget about when the Rangers were winning and they couldn’t get 15k fans at their games unless they were Rangers fans. They were one of the worst teams in baseball for a long time. They have sustained success for longer.. I blame mostly JD and the Rangers for losing Nolan, but the Rangers are on their way back. Especially if they spend freely on FA like expected.
Sources are saying they’re still cheating
I mean why would they stop? They were given essentially no punishment by invertebrate Manfred. And they wonder why people don’t watch baseball when there’s some new ridiculous scandal each and every year.
I think we can agree the Yankees are the only of the more successful teams in the past few years to truly stop cheating. Aside from Judge and Stanton (the latter of whom wasnt on the 2017 Yanks team merely fined for cheating), the line-up couldnt hit the broad side of a barn this year.
On the other hand, players on the Astros, Dodgers (only purported cheaters, of course) and Red Sox all continued to excel offensively.
Would be fun if at least one non-cheating team could be in the WS this year. Braves anyone? 🙂
because im sure they’ll get punished more next time?
What legitimate sources?! Name, post, document it?!
Not drunk fans calling into New York Sports talk radio?!
Sources your mom and dad?
Thanks for this in-depth summary.
Was it by whistling while they work?
How did the Astros build their team? Tanking the 2011, 2012 and 2013 seasons helped. Making fans watch them lose over 100 games for 3 consecutive seasons so they could get the top draft picks. Then, of course, cheating got them over the top, didn’t it?
Astros did a “traditional rebuild” rebuilding their farm system with high drafts, international signings, trades etc…
It is not tanking when your farm system was left empty by previous ownership.
It is rebuilding a team/asset that was neglected for years.
Not every team can practice “checkbook baseball” just buy their most of roster
like the Yankees etc. running 200M payrolls every year.
The rest of this is “sour grapes”.
Parity has come to MLB.
No longer are teams in smaller markets forced to become the extended farm
system of teams like the Yankees, Dodgers etc….
If you want to discuss “tanking” then the Red Sox would be a much better example.
How does a team that wins multiple World Series finish in last place or in the bottom of the Division in the next year or two and then rise back up to 1st place after reloading with high draft picks (multiple times)…
Theo Epstein tanked to build the Cubs.
But he walks on water.
I guess Pittsburg, Detroit and Baltimore will be the teams to watch then they have sucked the last 10 years
It’s called ‘buying the dip’… it’s how you make a profit.
It’s called ‘working out’ so you can have muscle.
It’s called ‘dieting’ so you can be healthy and not die.
Surely, You’ve heard of the term sacrifice, right?
(But he’s right… I really would’ve loved to have those tank years be blessed by .500 win teams.) smh
i’ve never seen a line-up go so quickly from dominating to dominated like the red sox after the 1st inning of game four. would be fascinating to hear how the astro pitching staff adjusted in real time (serious comment not implying they somehow cheated etc)
I know the Red Sox batters just started pounding ground balls instead of elevating. I’m guessing they changed how they sequenced their pitches. But you’re right, it would make an interesting study.
I don’t want anyone affiliated with Astros 2017 team to win another World Series. I want that 2017 championship to be the only one they have on their questionable résumé.
didnt alex cora win one the next year as manager of the red sox?
Indeed he did.
si.com/mlb/2020/04/22/red-sox-sign-stealing-scanda…
And the organization-wide punishment was less than Houston’s.
That article is misleading in that it quotes from the original article from The Athletic about the 2018 Red Sox. If you read MLB’s investigation report on the 2018 Red Sox, you will see that none of the cheating allegations in the original article were confirmed by MLB during their investigation. I recommend you read the original article and then read MLB’s investigation report. You will be shocked to see that MLB admitted they “largely do not have direct evidence” of illegal sign stealing. MLB found no evidence after months of investigation and made “inferences” (which are guesses) to conclude the Red Sox cheated.
don’t worry too much. They only have 4 active players from that year. You’ll be okay.
Where’s Steve Nebraska? The guy lives in these comment sections
He’s looking at speadsheets while people here write about baseball.
Or maybe his employer found out he spent most or his workday posting here.
He either got banned or he voluntarily deleted his account, probably the latter.
The handle on his comments have been changed to Deleted User.
Great Article! There should be more like this.
Drafting, signing FA’s and waiver wire guys, acquiring players through trade is all important. But what makes all that work for the Astros (and the Rays, Dodgers, Indians, Brewers, and Red Sox under Bloom) is having a solid group of both full-time coaches as well as coaches that works with specific players all through their organization; using the latest techniques in video, physical development, and baseball technique to work with individual players to build off their strengths and make them into as productive a player as possible – coming through the minors, and most importantly, during the season as the major league level.
All 30 teams look at spreadsheets and see where players in organized baseball have potential. But bringing it out in them is a never-ending process – and MLB is ultimately about players making constant adjustments.
The St. Louis Cardinals used to have a stad flow of players coming up from the minors that played strong fundamental baseball, as well as reworking veterans they acquired. Jeff Luhnow learned those techniques when he was brought in to create an analytic department with the Cards. When he went to Houston he trained people in his organization to use new technology to achieve the same ends. It’s why I refer to the Astros as the high-tech Cardinals (who have fallen far behind other organizations in this area).
If Stephan Cohen had the cojones and the discipline, he’d bring in Jeff Luhnow, stay out of the mans way, take the slings from the media and fans, and give Luhnow the space he needs to build a similar infrastructure for the Mets.
To Those blaming the Astros for the sign stealing scandals, because they became the MLB and Media “scapegoat” for the sign stealing scandal, sit down, have some coffee and consider all the cheating teams that were not disciplined for the rampant sign stealing that goes on throughout MLB, but gets a “slap on the wrist” LITTLE OR NO CONSEQUENTIAL PUNISHMENT FOR OTHER TEAMS SIGN STEALING.
1) The Red Sox were disciplined by MLB, albeit not as severely as Houston was, for improperly using an Apple Watch to relay the signals of opposing teams during the 2017 season.
2) Robert Murray, then of The Athletic, reported that the Brewers suspected the Dodgers of using a camera to steal their signs during the 2018 NLCS.
3) Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich of The Athletic reported that the Red Sox illegally stole signs during the 2018 season
AND THAT, , according to multiple sources, the Yankees had been using the replay room to decode signs since 2015 and the Red Sox since 2016.
Scott Miller, then of Bleacher Report, reported in 2019 that certain league sources believed the Diamondbacks, Indians, Rangers, Cubs, Blue Jays, and Nationals used electronic sign-stealing measures to varying extents.
Jeff Jones of the Belleville News-Democrat tweeted that the Brewers and Rangers (in addition to the Astros) were frequently named by players as practitioners of electronic sign-stealing.
Former MLBer Logan Morrison named the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and Red Sox as team using video to decode signs.
SI’s Tom Verducci reported that multiple members of the Astros organization told MLB investigators that eight other teams had indulged in similar behavior.
You get the idea. While MLB and fans of teams, other than the Astros, would probably like to believe that Houston was the lone (or lone-ish) bad actor, that’s a bit too tidy for reality.
in an interview, Oakland A’s pitcher Scott Bassit( who previously pitched for the Astros says sign stealing is rampant throughout multiple MLB teams and very common….League discipline is not. Bassitt’s DISCLOSURES LEND MORE EVIDENCE TO THE IDEA THAT IS WAS MORE OF A LEAGUE -WIDE ISSUE THAN A HOUSTON ONLY ISSUE..
NONE OF THES OTHER TEAMS RECEIVED THE SCRUTINY, THE INVESTIGATIONS, THE DISCIPLINE THAT THE ASTROS RECEIVED AS THE “FALL GUYS” FOR MLB LEAGUE WIDE CHEATING AND SIGN STEALING.
The Mets should get Luhnow. Forward thinking and built this Astros dynasty. Cora and Hinch are back in the game, many Astros players now set to appear in a World Series – Luhnow deserves a second chance too.
Agree with that.
I’m betting Luhnow is tainted goods now, since he is suing the Astros.
I’m a Dodgers fan but I have a lot of respect for what the Astros have built. I’m more inclined to believe that all teams are cheating vs just 1 or 2.
I still click thumbs up when others make fun of them but I’m not angry about the 2017 WS, anymore.
I would even welcome the Dodgers bringing Lunhow in as GM.
It seems like Crane threw his guys under the bus to save money, when the championship team started getting expensive.
this team should be treated as if it doesn’t exist until all links to the cheater regime are gone.
Should we forget managers that lost their jobs or pitchers who went stir crazy thinking they were tipping their pitches because of the cheating.
The Astros and Manfred are a disgrace to baseball.
Shame on Rumors for giving them any coverage.
Yu Darvish actually did tip his pitches.
you can dislike them or say they didnt deserve to win, but ignoring them is just denial.
The right mix of talent and garbage can banging made this championship team.
“I couldn’t hit him. Sandy would strike me out two or three times a game and I knew every pitch he was gonna throw. Fastball, breaking ball or whatever. I knew it. He actually let you look at it and you still couldn’t hit it.” ~ Willie Mays on facing Sandy Koufax.
I wonder if the Giants were banging on garbage cans.
Beat them anyway or go home.
I don’t seem to be hearing any trash can banging people now
Cheatstros built their team through cheating. I have no respect for this team until the players come clean with it all. When the roster is 100% turned over with a new owner.
Wow… did you find the word ‘Cheatros’ on a website on a website or something. If not, go into writing for a living – it’s brilliant. (That’s sarcasm in case of you know… cheatros was your idea.) Yikes.
bad players are still bad. you really think you could be a WS calibre player just by knowing what pitch was coming.
Cheaters.
The Astros had enough guts to pick Correa and not the consensus #1 Buxton. No light matter, because most GMs are afraid to go against the consensus.
That move is the primary reason for their success
Have to acknowledge that Houston has done a fine job of roster construction in every aspect leading to the current run. With that young staff they should at least stay competitive the next 3-5 years.
One of the common themes of recent known sports cheaters is that they would have been great anyway…
Bonds was already a HOF’er. Belichick and Brady would have been considered the best ever without the asterisks. Maybe the 17 Astros and 18 Red Sox would have won anyway.
Instead, they cheated.
Which means that you are under no obligation to respect them or to pretend they didn’t cheat, even if others want to forget.
The fact that the Astros made the world series is just further proof that gods not real
I love reading about people who tell us all who they ‘respect’ or ‘don’t respect’ like we have any freakin idea who YOU are.
My name is Joe Biden and I don’t respect people who break our laws. *vomit*
Actions speak louder than words. I don’t respect many of the current Astros players because of their actions. Most people aren’t all good or all bad, but when you cheat your way to the highest level of victory in your profession, and take no level of accountability, then I don’t respect you.
As for me, we’re on a comment board. You (or anyone else on this comment board) don’t have to respect me, and it’s not going to impact my day in any way, shape or form, but respect is formed based on how you carry yourself on a day-to-day basis. I may not be perfect, but I’m not cheating my way to a championship then playing victim like the ’17 Asstros did.
what?
No one picked the Braves, none of the writers from MLBTR either.