Bryce Harper and Shohei Ohtani have been named the respective league Most Valuable Players, according to announcements from the Baseball Writers Association of America. It’s the second MVP of Harper’s career, while Ohtani’s a first-time winner.
Harper led all hitters (minimum 500 plate appearances) by measure of wRC+ this past season. His .309/.429/.615 line checked in 70 percentage points above the league average. The Phillies star ranked sixth in the National League with 35 home runs and paced the league with 42 doubles, leading to an NL-best slugging percentage. Harper also drew plenty of walks, as he does on an annual basis, leading to the second-highest on-base percentage in the Senior Circuit.
The six-time All-Star was especially great down the stretch. Over the season’s second half, Harper mashed at a .338/.476/.713 clip, helping him earn his second career Silver Slugger award as well. Harper didn’t rate particularly well defensively, but that sheer offensive excellence was enough to take the crown. This kind of season is no doubt what the Phils had in mind when signing him to a record-breaking $330MM free agent contract. He’ll remain in Philly through 2031, and the organization and fanbase can hope for a few more seasons of this ilk from the likely future Hall of Famer.
Harper appeared on all 30 ballots, garnering 17 first-place votes. That was enough to edge out the Nationals’ Juan Soto and the Padres’ Fernando Tatís Jr., the other two NL finalists. Soto picked up six first-place votes after posting a .313/.465/.534 line and pacing the league in on-base percentage. Tatís bopped a league-best 42 homers while playing a good chunk of the season at shortstop, a performance that earned him two first-place votes. Giants shortstop Brandon Crawford and Nationals/Dodgers infielder Trea Turner were the other players to receive first-place nods, enough to finish in fourth and fifth place, respectively.
Voting in the American League was far more resounding, as Ohtani claimed the award unanimously. It’s easy to understand why, as he’s coming off a season unlike any we’ve seen in recent memory. As a hitter, the 27-year-old mashed at a .257/.372/.592 clip. He popped 46 home runs, a mark that trailed only Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Salvador Pérez in the AL. Only Guerrero had a higher slugging percentage (again minimum 500 PA), while Guerrero, Yuli Gurriel, Yoan Moncada and Aaron Judge were the group to top Ohtani in on-base percentage.
That work at the plate alone would have been enough to get Ohtani on MVP ballots, but his additional contributions on the mound made him an easy choice for voters. After injuries limited his pitching workload over his first two big league seasons, Ohtani stayed mostly healthy in 2021 and logged a career-best 130 1/3 frames. He pitched to a 3.18 ERA that was ninth-lowest among the 64 AL hurlers with 100+ innings. Ohtani’s 29.3% strikeout rate checked in sixth among that same group, while he placed fifth in strikeout/walk rate differential (21 percentage points) and sixth in SIERA (3.61). He’s controllable through 2023 via arbitration, although it stands to reason the Angels would love to work out an extension to keep the two-way star in the fold for the long-term.
While Ohtani’s historic showing took the suspense out of the result, that’s not to say there weren’t worthy challengers. Guerrero led the AL in both on-base and slugging en route to a second-place finish. 29 voters placed Guerrero second on their ballot, with the only other second-place nod going to Pérez. Guerrero’s teammate with the Blue Jays, Marcus Semien, easily finished in third place, followed by Judge and Carlos Correa.
Full balloting results available.
Images courtesy of USA TODAY Sports.
Oh injustice
Vlad was the man, but Ohtani is more stylish
don’t worry. vlad will join the angels soon enough.
Where do these Vlad to the Angels rumors come from? What possible reason would he go there? He chose Toronto because his dad played for Montreal…
His father chose the Angels. Vlad followed the $ to Toronto, nothing more.
Doesn’t Vlad make the league minimum? Assuming he chose Toronto because he’s Canadian. Just a thought.
he wanted to sign with the angels but the angels gm at the time, dipoto, signed a dud for $8 million scrupulously just because arte sided with scoscia. that prevented the team from spending anything more than $200k per season on foreign youngsters for 3 years..
Bucsfaan0004, and a $3,900,000 international signing bonus
You can have him after he wins a WS in Toronto, when he starts his decline and becomes extremely overpaid. Sounds right up the Angels alley
He chose toronto because they scouted him over a long time and paid him the most. Dont romanticize it.
Hahhaha vlady picked the Jays when he was 13!! Go to his IG old pictures.
If I’m not mistaken Vizionaire, You’re wrong. Maybe not about who the Angels signed. But I’m almost 100% positive that Jr signed with Toronto because he wanted to be there. His dad also had signed a minors deal a year or two prior with the jays and this was said to be a determining factor in where he encouraged his son to sign.
good. what team cap is on senior’s hall of fame plaque? end of the story!
He signed with the Blue Jays because the Angels blew their international signing bonus money on a kid who stunk. The Angels couldn’t pay him.
Had they had money. It’s very likely Vlad would be an Angel.
And the way the Angels develop young talent, he’d still might be in triple A
The Gift of Billy Eppler keeps on giving for Angels
Ted, the real indicator of where one is to sign is not based on his father’s playing path it’s what team does his sig other root for or grew up closest to, didn’t the Verlander signing teach us nothing? Hopeful fans on here and their ridiculous predictions based on these ideals. It’s comical at this point.
Jerry Dipoto was the one who blew the international spending money on the bust (Roberto Baldoquin), NOT Billy Eppler. Eppler was the one forced to try to rebuild the system without being allowed to spend on Int’l FA for three years.
Actually his father chose the Yankees it was a done deal Cashman got told no because the boss wanted gary sheffield and the boss was the boss so he couldn’t sign Guerrero.
Why would Vlad want to join the Angels? I think he wants to win
Why would him want to go to such a bad organization?
His dad didn’t even got his # retired (trout is no yet an HOF)
Pujols was released on the last year of his contract ( pujols is a close friend to the Guerrero family and fellow Dominican)
When he picked the Jays in ‘15 he really mean it!!
not happening turd man… Vladdy gonna sign a big extension soon
Turd man? Does he wear a brown cape?
More stylish? He did something that’s never been done in 100 years of baseball– not even Ruth. What he did is impossible. Elite hitting and pitching in the same season?
Perhaps now would be a good time to go look up what the word “impossible” means.
Let me clarify for you– it was considered impossible until he did it. Does that make you feel better? I guess if you have nothing to say attack the messenger. Highly improbable? Unlikely? Inconceivable? Pick a description that fits your myopic definition.
Since Ohtani does both, he must get the MVP in perpetuity? Just trying to follow flawed logic.
Are we all going to pretend that NL pitchers don’t hit to fit the narrative that we he did was impossible?
He’s very good, he’s an amazing athlete and put together an outstanding year. Enough with all the hyperbole, he’s not even the best player on his team
“Are we all going to pretend that NL pitchers don’t hit to fit the narrative that we he did was impossible?”
Are we going to pretend that NL starters’s making 2-3 PAs per start, wherein they mostly set the bat on their shoulders or take impotent swings, then taking a 4 game rest, then repeat…is in any way like what Ohtani did?
So no NL pitcher has ever been a good hitter?
Grienke, Gallardo, Hampton, zambrano and others have all had pretty decent years at the plate while primarily being a pitcher.
Again, Ohtani out paced them all at the plate, but everyone sayings it’s never been done before, it’s impossible, greatest season ever, is just maybe talking about the AL?
Let’s call him the MVP, let’s call him a great ambassador and let’s call him fun times watch and let’s leave it at that
IF hes good enough at both to contribute the most combined value of any player than yes, of course.
Apples and oranges. As good as Greinke may be as a hitter, none of his teams asked him to DH on every day off. Getting the occasional pinch hit opportunity is not at all comparable to what Ohtani does.
Dude, you are talking apples and oranges here. Sure those guys were decent pitchers that got a few good hits at times, but thats all they were, pitchers who hit, but not well. Ohtani is a guy that is a good Pitcher AND a good hitter, he’s both. He not a guy that excels at one thing and is decent at another, he does both exceptionally well.
Dusty – The guys you mentioned batted fewer than 100 times per season and didn’t put up numbers anywhere close to what Ohtani did this year. What he accomplished has been done maybe once before, more than a century ago.
In 1919, Babe Ruth hit .322/.456/.657 with 29 HR, 113 RBI, and 103 runs. He also threw 133-1/3 innings with a 2.97 ERA. Era adjustments certainly are required, since Ruth’s HR total set a new major league record, while his ERA was only 2% better than average.
I’d say a once-in-a-century season is as close to unique as it gets, and Ohtani is deserving of all the recognition he is receiving.
No, he doesn’t get the MVP for doing both. He got the MVP for doing both at an elite level. let me follow your logic– he has numbers offensively comparable to Vlad on offense, and was elite as a pitcher at 9-2 on a team that finished 11 games under .500– but we don’t look at that? If he had the same offensive numbers and was a mop up 5th starter with a 4.50 ERA he would not have won. If he does this same thing next year and puts up even better numbers– yes, he will win again no matter how great Trout’s numbers are. Do you understand his presence allows the team to carry an extra player? His value is unmatched.
So because you’re using limited about of plate appearances for my Grienke comparison, can I use the limited amount of innings from Ohtani (vs grienke) to retort?
Sure, Dusty. I’m happy to have a reasonable exchange of views. It sure beats reading all the name-calling and other insults I see far too often on message boards.
Tell me about another pitcher who had 46 home runs, 103 runs and 100 RBI and pitched 28 games as a starter.
Babe Ruth hit 54 home runs in 1920, but he only pitched four innings that year.
Got another one?
Comparing any of the players you named with Ohtani is ludicrous.
.257 Batting average and 189k is “elite” hitting ?
He didn’t win the Hank Aaron Award. But second in wRC+ and with his pitching. He easily closed the gap. Those that don’t realize that have no control over their bias.
26 stolen bags on top of his other #’s is why I felt he had the best offensive season in the AL. Guerrero can hit. Run? Not so much.
Batting average an Ks to determine a hitters worth? Who was president when you last watched a game? Taft? Garfield?
No..but HRs, batting avg, hits, RBIs, runs scored, WAR, OBP & OPS do.. and Vlad was leading Ohtani in every one of those category, so..
fathead05073:
“.257 Batting average and 189k is “elite” hitting ?”
^1988 has entered the chat^
Fathead says it all. Elite hitting is the most extra base hits during a season in the history of the game except for Willie Mays. 46 homers is elite. 100RBI is elite. Lame cherry picking of stats is not elite. Leading the game in WAR is elite. leading in triples is elite.
fathead0507 – You’re focusing on relatively unimportant parts of his batting stats while ignoring his strong ability to reach base and hit for power.
@fathead0507
Ohtani was literally the second-best batter in the AL by wRC+.
So either you don’t know how to evaluate batting stats or your definition of ‘elite’ doesn’t include the second-best hitter in the league.
I argue that Ohtani was not an elite pitcher. He was good and we’ve never seen this before and I believe that’s why the OP said it’s stylish. Which I agree with.
Now, on the elite pitcher aspect. Ohtani did not throw enough to be considered for top 5 in CY voting, but suddenly he is elite? While on the topic. I truly believed that because he wasn’t a valid candidate for the Pitching award, his pitching statistics should not have been as valuable in this race. Also take into consideration his second half was an absolute crater. His last 30 games were abysmal with the bat. He was first half MVP for sure but whole season? Not a chance(he was in the voters eyes clearly)
I don’t think he was an elite pitcher, just one of the better pitchers in the AL. As for hitting and baserunning…offense. He was pretty darn close.
He’s not worthy of the Cy Young Award. He’s not worthy of the Hank Aaron award, but he’s the only player in history that is worthy of votes in both categories.
He didn’t have enough arbitrary IP to qualify for the award, and yet still finished 7th in the AL in pitching WAR. So, yeah, elite.
But halo11fan you just proved my point. You yourself are saying Ohtani wasn’t worthy of CY or Hank Aaron Award. What makes him worthy of MVP if he can’t win an award based on 1 singular aspect of the game?
To add to that, who was MVP of the AL in 2011? Verlander. Who was CY? Verlander. How about 2014 in the NL? Kershaw for both.
They each won the main award for their primary position, and had such dominant seasons that they were rewarded the MVP as well.
Did Ohtani have a good year? Yes. But I dare you to look at his stats in the second half, specifically offensively. They are terrible. If he was primarily a hitter you would be begging for your GM to trade him because he strikes out too much.
Like I said before, I agree that he had a remarkable year that has been otherwise unheard of. But his offensive stats are primarily first half dominant and his pitching was good, but not great. He cratered at the plate, he held steady on the mound. THAT is the end of the story.
You really don’t know? My guess is you judgement is clouded by bias.
What is it you possess that makes you know more than literally every voter and probably all 30 GMs in baseball?
You’re wrong. Ohtani was the easy MVP. Cope.
@ALuepke12
…your comments. are serious?
Vlad had an MVP caliber season. Ohtani had a historic season. No injustice here.
If you look at their offensive stats they’re even. Ohtani is ahead in some like triples and stolen bases and total number of extra base hits, almost even in homers– Vlad was ahead in different categories, but they were close. How do you knock a guy who is starting too because he didn’t have more innings pitched? he was 9-2 on a team that finished 11 games under ,500. #1 in WAR. The list of records he set are ridiculous and we’ll probably never see it again.
Also was a historic season..
Usually MVPs help there teams make the playoffs…. but I digress Othani definitely deserved this award
Not recently. Writers vote for the best player.
This isn’t true at all.
Bryce Harper says hello…
He should also shut up. What a joke. So many other players were better than him, yet he somehow wins the MVP. Writers only seem to vote for the safe bet. Maybe these types of awards should be handed out in Spring Training, so the writers have plenty of time to think about their selections.
They should base the MVP off a FULL YEAR of contributions, meaning, did that player help get his team to the playoffs, what did he do in the playoffs, etc. Yeah, he surged in the second half alright, lol. Pivotal series against the Braves, one where the Phillies could have cut the lead in the NL East to 0.5 games with a sweep of the Braves, with only 3 games left, but no, Harper goes 0-11 with 6 K’s. Batting average of .000, and OBP of .083 in that series. Granted, I know it was only a 3 game sample, but isnt that when you need your MVP the most? Also, shouldnt an MVP be someone who can stay on the field for more than 141 games. Think about how the Phillies could have won the East if Bryce played more. MVP, yeah right, Most Valuable Pick, not player.
Jonathan B. – Playoff performance is explicitly excluded from MVP consideration. It encompasses the entire regular season.
I’m curious who these “So many other players” are whom you think were better than him.
gbs42, good to see common sense comments now and then instead of the Johnathan B. type whines about a 3 game series and wanting to blame Harper like everything was his fault and his fault only. What did Segura, Realmuto, Gregorious and McCutchen do in that series other than nothing? They get the free pass, just blame Harper only and ignore the rest of his season. 143 games, waaah. Conveniently overlook the back issues and fastball to the face….
This was a pretty easy vote for any writer who didn’t want to be controversial. WAR is basically the Cliff Notes of player appraisal. Fangraphs ranked Harper second in WAR in the NL, and Trea Turner, who ranked first, played for two teams.
Alternatively, they could’ve gone with B-Ref WAR, but maybe the fact that the owners wanted to use Fangraphs WAR valuations to negotiate contracts suggests a preference that’s spreading throughout the industry.
Another factor the voters might’ve considered was the gap between Harper’s team-leading fWAR and the fWAR rating of Realmuto who ranked second. By that standard, Harper was clearly the most valuable player on the team.
did Vlad help his team make the playoffs?
Stylish? Did you see Ohtani’s humble reaction when the results were announced? By the way, the vote was unanimous. Vlad Jr. had a fantastic season. It just happened when another player was doing something truly remarkable.
Gotta love East Coast homers. You guys clearly never watched an Angels game this season. Without Trout, Rendon, and most of Upton, this team hovered around .500 most of the season because of Ohtani and some duct tape holding the rest of the team together. He was as valuable as you get.
But can Vlad pitch
Can someone explain to me why players on two teams that didn’t make the playoffs and weren’t really in contention won the MVP?
The Angels were in 4th place, how is that value? Ohtani may be the MVP on the Angels, but not compared to the rest of the league.
The Phillies barely had an above .500 record in a division that barely had two above .500 teams. Harper was so valuable the year after he signed with the Phillies his former team won the World Series.
I would argue that with Acuna going down this season, Freddie Freeman was more valuable to this years World Series champs than he was to last years playoff losers. Yet he won MVP last season and obviously not this season.
While I love the occasional MVP that gets voted in because he meant so much to his winning team (Kirk Gibson 1988 comes to mind), most of the time it goes to the outstanding performer in each league that was heads above the rest. I didn’t see Harper play much this season, but I can tell you that any baseball fan, or even just a sports fan, could tell that nobody was close to Shohei for what he brought to the Angels, and the sport for that matter, this season. It was a remarkable season because he HAD to be excellent at the plate and on the mound. And he was.
It’s because bringing value to a team doesn’t really have anything to do with how the team ends up. Nobody on the Astros, Braves, Red Sox, or any playoff team would have carried the Angels to the playoffs.
Basically the MVP award is saying that if that player hadnt played on that team, that team would have been worse off without them. MVP doesnt really mean most valuable player in the league, just most valuable player on that team. Like in the shortened 2020 season, Freddie Freeman was the most valuable player in the league because he got his team to the playoffs. Its an award that is voted upon before the playoffs even happen. Look at how much of a travesty the Executive of the Year award is. Farhan Zaidi?? Seriously? What because the Giants won 107 games? Big deal. They didnt win the World Series, did they. Alex A should have won that award based on the team being below .500, him going out and making moves that ultimately put his team in the drivers seat and never looked back, eventually winning it all. Not a team like the giants that cruised into the playoffs easily. All of the awards are a farce.
Zerbs63 – It’s easy. How good a player’s teammates are shouldn’t dictate a player’s value.
Vlad Jr was robbed.
Even Fred McGriff would admit that Shohei was MVP.
Toronto fans fear not. As least your team has a legitimate shot at a WS unlike the Angels who have two “MVP” caliber candidates and nothing else.
bostonbob – I don’t understand the quotation marks. They’re both legit MVPs.
let’s see Vlad pitch and then we can talk
Great season but plenty of guys have put up a season like Vlad just did. Nobody has ever done what Ohtani did.
Ooo, I want Soto…
Such a travesty that Harper wins the MVP playing awful defense and completely choking on offense when it counted most…Meanwhile…
You have Brandon Crawford playing unbelievable baseball on both sides of the ball for the best team in the league…Austin Riley doing the same for the team that beat up on Harper…and even Trea Turner having a great year and absolutely going off for the stretch run
Ridiculous at the least, and it really takes away from the award
So dramatic.
How is that dramatic? Because its true?
Harper had a 1.033 OPS with RISP, a 1.012 OPS with RISP and 2 outs, Get out of here with that BS.
Oh look you cherry picked a couple stats for a guy playing in a band box of a stadium
When the claim is “choking when it matters most”, showing off literal clutch stats is hardly “cherry picking”.
“Choking on offense when it counted most”. The stats that Ry has picked out directly contradict your claim. Do your research first next time
I see Ry. keeps up voting his own comments with his various troll accounts, how clever
He picked the stats that relevant to your criticism that show your criticism is not true.
To me Tyler O’Neill should have won this award, the St Louis Cardianls don’t make the playoffs without his September or his season all together. He was worth 6.3 WAR, .4 more than Harper and his team made the playoffs. He did this in 138 games due to injury, Harper appeared in 141. There stats were comparable in many ways with the exception of walks and OBP, yet O’Neill wasn’t even a finalist?
Think they were talking about the series against the Braves where he went 0-11, and struck out 6 times. I would say that is choking when it matters most, wouldnt you?
Brandon crawford had a nice year. MVP? Not even close.
Astros 2017 WS champs, not even close.
Never give the stats to a person who doesn’t care about stats.
Ohtani was the clear winner. The NL MVP could have gone either way. Certainly no travesty.
Absolutely, @Halo11.
All things considered, he was the best offensive player in the AL. Who also happened to throw 130+ innings of well above average ball. I was pretty surprised he didn’t get any down ballet Cy votes, actually.
I get blowback from some of the Yankee guys on this, but same thing with his ROY. He deserved it. Completely.
He deserved both completely. Neither were close. But he was the second best hitter in the AL. Vlad was great.
I mentioned it above.
His work on the bases tips the scale for me in re his total offensive contribution. That’s – I suppose – a personal preference. But at one point, he was on pace for 50+ jacks & 30+ steals (finished 45+ & 25+. So) which is completely out of hand.
& that’s before you take into account the value of mediocre 1B defense Vs solid top of the rotation pitching. Which is an enormous gap.
Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story!
And still only 84 rbi which tells u he didn’t have that many AB in those situations which inflated those numbers
I feel bad for you and your lack of baseball knowledge.
Freddie Freeman was the most valuable player. When he was batting .230 the Braves were awful. When he batted .380 in the 2nd half, he carried the team all the way to the world series. That’s an MVP.
Too bad it is an award for an entire year, not just when a player is hot.
Choking on offense? He carried a team an entire year. If you’re talking about the Braves series at the end of the season, the Braves were throwing him straight junk because the Phillies lineup was completely useless at that point. They had no reason to throw to Harper. Harper came up big all year, even more so down the stretch. Get a clue. I would’ve been fine with Soto winning as well tbh, but Harper deserved it. Imagine Harper’s numbers had he been surrounded by anyone decent.
Braves were throwing him straight junk? If you mean striking him out on their bread and butter pitches, what should they have done, made it easy for him? Also, dont give anyone crap about the lineup, he had one of the best catchers in the league batting behind him in the lineup in JT Realmuto..
Morton, Fried and Anderson just handled the so called MVP when it mattered the most.
@Jonathan B I don’t think you understood my comment, and I take responsibility for not expressing it well. The Braves pitched to Harper the correct way because the Braves are good. They had the luxury of throwing him straight junk because everyone else on the Phillies was not hitting during that stretch. So, essentially, the Braves faced one good hitter and made sure they didn’t have to throw him anything down the middle. This is credit to the Braves. Not an insult to them.
Are you drunk? Harper played outstanding defense all year. Every one of his homers would have left 90% of the parks in baseball.
Maybe not outstanding, but better than average. Most people think that Harper is horrible defensively because during his last year with the Nats, he was awful. But I think that’s because he did not want to get hurt, it’s actually a common problem with Boras clients.
He was also playing CF for his last few years on the Nats. Not his natural position
Have a look at this comparison chart. This gives you all the info you need. stathead.com/baseball/player-comparison.cgi?player…
Found the San Francisco beat writer’s burner
Brandon Crawford…lmao
Crawford -24hr 90 rbi – your standards for mvp are really low. Rhys Hopkins was batting better than Harper most of the season. Austin Riley had more games and more PA, I’d give it to Riley.
I’m not sure who Hopkins is, but Harper was the best Phillies hitter all year and Hoskins was injured for huge chunks of the season.
Here we go with the “it should’ve been Austin Riley” nonsense
How is it nonsense? Because it makes more sense than Harper winning it? Riley carried his team to the win the division title, if not for Austin Riley, the Braves would not have won the division. But yeah, its nonsense. As long as it fits your narrative right.
Anyone who saw Brandon Crawford play day in and day out knows he was NL MVP, which in no way degrades Harper or Sotos’ achievements. If either Harper or Soto had propelled their team to the best record in baseball, they’d have my vote. But that’s what Crawford did on both sides of the ball. An incredibly excellent player, every game. Without him, Giants are nowhere close to 107 wins.
Harper? Good defense? Let’s see…
-6 DRS
-6 OAA
Yeah, no. He was really bad on defense.
What amazes me is there is a case to be made for Soto for the NL MVP but the the debate, obviously fueled by Blue Jay fans is about Vlad, even though it’s obvious to everyone else it should be Ohtani.
Go figure.l
Yeah, some of their argument might revolve around pitching and hitting being seperate roles yet that doesn’t take away from the fact that Ohtani was the best OVERALL.
Anyone who saw Brandon Crawford play day in and day out, AND did not watch any other baseball games, knows he was NL MVP.
Fixed it for you.
How in the heck did you assume that I didn’t watch other teams and their best players?
Dude, I would love to know what you are smoking where you think Brandon Crawford in any world deserves to win the MVP. Batting average and OBP are the only 2 statistics he placed in the top 10 in the league, and he was 9th for both of them. No other statistic was he even in the top 10. Not in the top 10 for Runs, Hits, Doubles, Triples, Homeruns, RBIs, or Walks. Not even in the top 10 for Stolen Bases, hell, Ronald Acuna Jr. was out half the season and yet he still had more stolen bases with 17 than Brandon Crawford. So please, dont talk about how Brandon Crawford should have been the real MVP, that is the biggest joke in the world. And on top of that, he only played 132 games. So one could say Brandon might have cost them some wins. Basically, its the same as saying Dansby Swanson should have won the MVP. lol.
If clutch defense and hitting aren’t important to you, fine. Stats are useful but don’t tell they entire story. And his stats were damn good.
Without Crawford the Giants aren’t the winningest team in baseball.
Sure, give MVPs to players on losing clubs; they maybe great players (as I think both Harper and Soto are), but they are NOT most valuable to the club in creating a winner.
Oh, and by the way, Crawford missed those games because of an ugly collision. (I guess your favorite player got snubbed.) Life goes on.
Harper hardly played “awful defense”.
First off, defensive stats are bogus. I still can’t understand how they’re calculated. I watched at least parts of at least 80-90 Phillies games in 2021. Harper was more than adequate as a major league RF. He was an inconsistent RF with the National’s, oftentimes hotdogging it and giveing opposing teams runners extra bases. He did a 180 when he went to the Phillies. He’s been a solid, smart RF – as well as a being a team leader.
Happy for him and his family. He deserved it.
“First off, defensive stats are bogus.”
Followed by:
“I still can’t understand how they’re calculated.”
One could easily infer from that (indeed I already have) that the second statement is your “logic” behind the first. Just because you don’t understand something, does not mean it is invalid. The actual problem seems to stem from just lashing out at what you are ignorant about.
It’s not all that difficult mathematically. Try OAA. It is the simplest to digest. Hope this helps, Sam!
“defensive stats are bogus” I absolutely disagree with you on that, especially when your using your and only your eye test as proof.
No disrespect meant though, we simply won’t agree on this.
Absolute joke that Brandon Crawford doesn’t even make it as a finalist. Just shows that MLB picks the players that are the most “marketable” instead of recognizing someone who offers true value to their club. As others have said Crawford and at least 3 others are way more deserving
Crawford’s stats were nowhere near the other three guys.
Would love to see Harper’s stats playing in Oracle
He’d have a sh#t ton of triples. But he chose Philly over San Fran. Can’t say I’m surprised why either.
It’s honestly terrible that Crawford finished ahead of Riley, Freeman, O’ Neill, Reynolds and the like. Top 10 this year, but 4th place was ludicrous
Crawford was most VALUBLE to his team that won a 107 games….without his excellent year…..I doubt if the Giants would have reached that level. That what most valuable….not a MLB media idol
I knew Giants fans were dumb, but I didn’t know they were this stupid
Get off it, he wasnt even the most valuable player on HIS OWN TEAM
Its not the “best stats for a fantasy league” award, but it seems that is what it has become. Ohtani had a great season, but how valuable can you be if your team comes in 4th. Because of the lack of talent on Baltimore, I could argue that Mullins provided as much or more value to Baltimore than Ohtani did for th Angels.
No player in MLB provided more value to their team than Otani did.
Crawford shouldn’t even be in top ten.He was the third or 4th best shortstop. He won his gold glove, he should be glad he somehow stole that.
And what value does Harper offer a losing Phillies team? Crawford hits 24 home runs and is in the top 10 of OPS+ while playing top level shortstop on the best team in baseball. Crawford is way more valuable to his team than Harper is
Phillies were in the playoff hunt with 6 games in the season. They lost the division to the WS champs. Without Harper Phillies are in 4th place. It’s the MVP award not the Most Valuable Team award. 2 CY Youngs. 2 MVPs. Only 1 of the 4 from a playoff team because these aren’t team awards.
@lcut32 Crawford does not play for the Braves.
Hey, there he is. Not sure where to slip this in.
But: excellent tip on the white marabou, @Jacobsen. Thank you! I plan on trying them on Lake Oahe this winter for the big chinooks. Let you know how it goes. The coho’s loved ’em, btw. Kept the smoker going. Upvotes on principle forever from me.
@fff, I didn’t chime in here with Crawford posts saying he should’ve won MVP. While very good, not best in NL by any means. But to say that he,
Defensively wasn’t the best SS in the NL tells me that you don’t watch him play. He didn’t steal anything other than about 25 base hits from otherwise pissed off batters .
I always laugh at people getting annoyed at the finalists, as if they weren’t announced awhile ago.
Brandon Crawford is not better than Tatis, Soto or Harper. Hard to fathom there are other good players too.
This is not better….This about most valuable
What’s most Valuable? Writers started voting for the player that contributes the most wins. That’s easily Ohtani.
If you don’t see this, you are so bias, you can’t see.
The most valuable this year is the guy who pitched like an ace while being a top slugger– something never done before in 100 years of baseball!
In that regard then, Acuna Jr. should have been MVP. He is way more valuable to his team than Crawford is .
Zerbs63 – It’s easy. How good a player’s teammates are shouldn’t dictate a player’s value.
azcrook – to many, the best player is the most valuable, independent of how his teammates perform.
Tatis wishes he was as good as Crawford. As always, the players MLB decides are exciting get all the recognition while the Giants with the most wins in the league get nothing
Lcut32 – Please explain how Tatis was not as good as Crawford in 2021.
Cool Ohtani stat: lowest batting average to ever win an MVP AND the highest ERA for a pitcher to ever win an MVP.
But first guy with BOTH of those distinctions to win the MVP
Here’s another cool stat: Nolan Ryan had more K’s after the age of 40 than Mariano Rivera had in his whole career.
Nolan would eclipse 400 k’s a season if he pitched in todays era
He might.
BS. Nolan would pitch 6 innings per start just like all the other arms in baseball do now. He would get a lot of Ks still but nowhere near 400 with reduced innings pitched.
He might have 300 BBs too.
I just checked. He had 202 in 1974 and 204 in ’77. That’s crazy.
No, he wouldn’t. Hitters are better today. Even if they strike out, they foul off pitch after pitch before doing so. That would have resulted in additional wear-and-tear on Ryan. Look up some of those lineups Ryan was facing in the 70s and 80s. Nearly every guy can take a pitcher deep today. That wasn’t the case in Ryan’s day.
Ryan struck out 383 batters pitching in a four man rotation and 2/3 of his starts were complete game. No way Ryan gets the opportunity to strike out 400 batters today.
Interesting note. I have a recording of Ryan in that game. Enberg blew the call. He said Ryan has two strikes on Ryan. All the versions you hear are edited to say Ryan has two strikes on Rich Reese.
Ryan pitched 300 innings in a season. Doubt foul balls would have effected him all that much. 100 pitches meant nothing.
Nolan Ryan never hit the way Ohtani did.. Are you freaked kidding me?
Are people trying to be this dense? It can’t be coming naturally.
This is a terrible stat that leaves out the most important context. No offense.
Also, Ohtani threw 130 innings., 20 fewer than Steven Matz (and Matz missed multiple starts with COVID). Ohtani’s pitching impact his overstated.
But did Matz hit over 40 homers too?
Are you high? No one in the history of the game did what Ohtani did. He’s a top 10 pitcher and top 10 slugger– it’s impossible. He was the entire team with no help. He was 9-2 on a team that finished 11 games under .500. One of the top starting ERAs with two bad games that dramatically inflated his numbers. Offensively he was definitely even with Guerrero when you look at all the numbers. He led the league in triples and had 26 stolen bases to go with 46 homers. How he got them I have no idea because the last two months no one pitched to him.
Cooler Ohtani stat: add up his homers, triples and stolen bases and only Willie Mays had more in a single season. And he hit more homers than earned runs he gave up. The man is an absolute phenom and those bashing him are ridiculous. Respect the talent and greatness you get to behold.
It’s almost like people don’t know that Ohtani was also a pretty good pitcher on top of the second best offensive player in the Majors.
Mike, talk about a post with no clue.
Not only is it clueless, it’s not accurate. Kill a few won MVP batting 242.
Bruh, Killebrew hit .276 in his MVP year
You are correct, I was looking at the wrong year.
You sound clueless. No offensive player who won the MVP had a batting average lower than Ohtani did.
But how many of those with a higher batting average had a lower ERA?
“but he ONLY bated .247.”
The difference between .250 and .300 is 25 hits. Or one more hit per week during the season. That extra hit sure is more valuable than Ohtani going his usual 6 or so innings with a low 3 ERA.
…and the difference between Ohtani’s 3.18 ERA and about 5.00 is only about 20-25 runs or about one earned run per outing.
Exactly! Preventing that additional run per start is so much more valuable than logging an extra hit per week. You get it.
Unfortunately he doesn’t get it.
Vlad was the better hitter. But those 533 batters Ohtani pitched to with all-star type effectiveness easily allowed Ohtani to surpass the difference.
This is incredibly obvious.
sold lots more ads and jerseys than anyone else.
@mike127
Ohtani does two things. Two things. Do you understand that? Two things.
Two things at an elite level.
1+1=2
He does two things.
Congrats to Harper. I said it in 2019 and will always believe the Phillies got a steal of a contract for Harper and that the Nationals were insane not to beat it. Super cheap AAV and by the time its at the end 25 mil will be a drop in the bucket.
I disagree. Hitting .300 every third or fourth year doesn’t make you great. Sure, the guy has a great OBP and hits big homeruns, but up until 2021 he was hitting .260 and .250. This is a guy that should be driving in major runs, not just getting on base.
Harper is a solid player, don’t get me wrong, but the hype around the guy is just too much for producing insane offensive numbers every third year.
Harper might’ve won it this year but he’s not been consistently great and I still believe Philly overpaid.
The guy is a career 42% better than the average big league hitter. That does make him great.
Another fine point to mention is that Harper ranked 19th for WAR for players in 2021. Austin Riley was ahead of him, among others. To me, that’s overhyped.
pwndroia He’s been solid every year in Philadelphia and plays virtually every game. It’s not like he has bad seasons. You’re being silly.
@VonPurpleHayes I even said in my original post that he was solid, he is just incredibly overhyped. He’s not putting up Trout numbers every year, though people talk about him like he does.
By the way, my argument wasn’t whether he was a solid player or not, it’s whether the contract was a “steal.” No way do I see that big contract a steal for the Phillies.
He has been worth way over 25 MM anually so far. Can’t argue that. He’s not overhyped. He is one of the 20 best players in the league. Trout doesn’t stay on the field. Harper plays almost every game. Sorry. Disagree here.
Well as of last year Trout didn’t stay on the field. But before that his stats were far more complete than Harper’s. You left that part out conveniently.
I feel if Harper wants to be on the same stage, he needs more consistent years of putting all his offensive stats together in a season.
He’s only done that maybe 3 or 4 times. Up until his injury, Trout put everything on the table for 5 to 6 straight years.
As I mentioned, Harper is solid. I never disagreed with that. But to say he’s better than Trout was consistently, I can’t agree. When healthy, Trout raked for straight years.
At the end of his contract, Phillies will be in trouble they have so much locked up for one guy (Angels will with Trout too). Those big contracts rarely pay off.
So to go back to the original post- no, it wasn’t a steal. Phillies spent a lot for Harper. Tied that much into one player while their pitching is mediocre.
Trout is better than Harper. Sorry. I’m not trying to say otherwise. Harper is still elite and consistent though.
At the end of his contract, 25 million a year will be cheap. That’s 10 more years of inflating salaries while Harpers wont change. Phillies being in trouble based on that is laughable.
Harper is a great player, Trout is better.
Harpers OPS was 1.044 this year. Career .916. That’s worth 25 million a year every time
Wasn’t it more than 25 million? If not, man inflation has gone up.
@natsgm He doesn’t hit at the same rate every year. That was my point
330 million divided by 13 years = $25.4 million AAV
Yeah he’s solidly producing at a hall of fame pace.
The problem with Harper is that we all compare him to Trout. When they were in the minor leagues Harper was ranked #1 and Trout #2. The experts felt Harper would have much more power. Because of this everyone feels Harper has failed because Trout has been so much better, but Trout is better than everyone else as well by a mile– so it’s not a fair comparison. Harper is a very good player and now has two MVPs. It’s okay to give the guy his due for a day.
@carllafong I gave Harper his due… for a day. Like I said, he’s solid. He deserved MVP this year and other years but I don’t see him as a perennial MVP and I didn’t even see him as fantastic when he hits .250 or .270. The only thing he has then is power but he’s still not even the top power bat. He’s got a bit of everything but he’s not always got his stats on top.
@pwndroia Average is a bit of an overrated stat in today’s game. Harper is much more than a power hitter, and consistently gets on base. It’s hard to look at Harper’s career and see any bad years. Sorry. I don’t agree with what you’re saying other than the fact that Trout is better.
Of course average isn’t the best Stat. But if I want guys to get on base, I pay for a cheaper Brandon Nimmo. No one is saying you have to agree with me, I’m just giving my two cents. Harper is a very solid player but I don’t see him as #2 behind Trout. As I mentioned, he was 19 in WAR this year (all very close) but Soto had more WAR.
I would gladly take Harper, I just wouldn’t overpay.
@pwndroia It’s not like he just gets on base though. He gets on base, provides tremendous power, bunts, steals bases…etc. Also your 19th in WAR comment is way off because it includes pitchers. Among offensive players Harper was 4th in WAR. 3rd in the NL. Tatis was 1 Soto 2. Harper 3. So if you’re in love with WAR, they definitely got the top 3 MVP candidates right. If you like Soto better, I can’t argue that. Soto definitely deserved it as well.
Harper was 19th in WAR 17th in salary….what exactly are people whining about?
He’s been paid about $65 million by the Phillies and his production has been worth about $100 million.
If you think Harper hasn’t earned his contract so far or is overpaid, you just don’t understand baseball economics. That’s fine….cheer on your favorite players and teams but maybe refrain from salary talk.
No, he’s not Trout but he’s not being paid to be Trout. Not Even Mike Trout is being paid to be Mike Trout..
When healthy, Trout’s production is worth $60-80 million a year.
Harper is a $30 million player being paid $25 million. Complainers are clueless.
Wake me up when Harper’s TEAM wins something. Same with Ohtani. MVPs both from bad teams. What a joke.
I’m not gonna wake you up, I’m gonna let you sleep.
Sounds like you need some more sleep so you stop being a Grumbly Gus. Goodbye “Kevin”
So the only MVPs come from the champions? Who would that be on the Astros? And the Dodgers? It’s baseball– individual stats playing in a collective. Don’t worry, the Angels are adding front line pitching so when either Trout or Ohtani win the MVP again next season you’ll feel good because they’ll be in the playoffs. Their stats will be the same, but because Moreno spends $100MM on pitching that will make their stats more relevant to you.
Correa, Muncy
You’re asleep? …No wonder you’re so far behind on modern player evaluations..
natsgm, several players got screwed on that mvp that did more for their teams than harper did.
Fabulous name the players with numbers. ridiculous. Soto is the only other guy who could’ve won.
The Nats don’t win the series in 2019 with Harper. Trading him let the Nats grow as a team.
Lol. Yea they grew all right. They got hot. They would’ve been even better with Harper. They didn’t need to pay him. They had the luxury of other talent.
No, they would not have been better with Harper. He never really meshed with the team. They became a team when he left. If you watched them every game, you saw it.
Yeah cause it was such a better decision to spend that money on Strasburg and Corbin instead of having Soto and Harper man your OF corners for another decade.
Harper carried them to the playoffs before 2019 with little help. The 2019 team was full of talent. Harper definitely makes them better. But it’s cool. Believe what you want
Nats could have 3 of the top 6 in NL MVP voting but some Nats fans just ignore that and pivot to “wouldnt have won in 19 with Harper” which is laughable IMO.
Sure basquiat, they grew right into a last place team lol
Ohtani was going to win it without a doubt. Too bad for Vlad Jr. who was also deserving. If he knew how to pitch, he might’ve gotten it.
Harper I’m not a huge fan of, but at least he had a good season.
Vlad Jr.’s offensive numbers were better and he played the field. Ohtani is a sensation because he also pitches, even if his pitching value is overstated. Ohtani was the clear MVP at the break, but his numbers took a big dip in the second half, but that didn’t matter because everyone was so enamored with Ohtani. I knew Ohtani was going to win, but there is no way he shold have been unanimous. That’s ridiculous. Baseball is the only sport that gives MVP awards to players who teams that aren’t even close to the playoffs
He was clearly the better player over the entire season.
But if it was the second half MVP award, it would have gone to Vlad.
Baseball is also the only pro sports where there is no time clock. It’s also the only sport where the defense controls the ball. Why compare it to others? Maybe, you know, the voters who watch baseball and write about baseball for a living and support families know a little more than you do.
The Angels guys are being incredibly diplomatic & patient on this. Bro. Just imagine if Ohtani had the season he just had but for us. Man. This thread would have a much different flavor. Ya know?
We would be going bonkers. Just try to picture what Clip would be posting back to some of these guys for example.
Hey, Guerrero had an excellent year.
We both saw that. But Ohtani did something most of us couldn’t even do on playstation, man.
Ohtani 9.0 WAR vs Vlad 6.8 WAR, There’s that, too.
SOME of Vlad’s offensive numbers were better– they were actually quite even. Did Vlad have 26 stolen bases? Did he have 8 triples? The only player in history to have as many extra base hits as Ohtani was Willie Mays–ONCE. And saying Vlad played the field is generous– he was on the field. Ohtani was a #1 starter who went 9-2 on a team that finished 11 games under .500. Give the man his due.
Ummm your stat on XBH is way off. Unless it’s in combination with another stat
Also no reason to put down Vlad’s defence, he did a fantastic job considering it was his first full year there. He was a very competent fielder and will only greater better.
XBH plus steals
-3 OAA, @Dusty.
He wasn’t a disaster over there, or whatever. But he was certainly below average. “Eye test” wise, he seemed a little better than Luke Voit to me.
OAA is really not a great stat for 1b and debatable for infielders in general. Plus defensive stats really should be used over atleast a 2-3 year period of time.
Not really going to get in to a debate about what his true defensive value is because no one really knows, and it would be unfair with one season of data at a new position. But the poster who said he was just on the field just sounds bitter and ultimately wrong.
Cheers DBF
Hey, I’m with you on all that, Dusty.
& I would have higher hopes for him playing a competent to (maybe even) good 1B than the aforementioned Luke Voit, for example. & I only saw him play…what?, 19 games? So not much of a sample. But: I don’t think the leather is ever going to be a strength of his. Which is ok!
Because: helluva bat. He can play on my squad any day, serious.
Backatcha.
I agree with everything so far, whatever will I complain about?!
You could follow our pols and start making stuff up! Post made me laugh though! haha
If teams would wake up, Ohtani can’t hit pitches that are low and away. If you pitch him outside and keep the ball down, he won’t hit .250.
If you pitch him outside Ohtani will walk 200 times a year and then you face Mike Trout. As an Angel fan, I welcome that.
Both are right
Congrats Bryce. Well deserved, despite all the jealous fans who are just mad you didn’t sign with them. Overrated my a**.
I don’t agree with Ohtani winning over Vlad Jr. He wasn’t good enough to win the Cy Young or the Hank Aaron so give him the MVP instead? Yes he had a good combined season but neither his pitching or hitting on it’s own was near worthy of this award. Gimmick.
Does this even make sense in your head?
Nobody will disagree that Vlad was the better hitter but the one flaw with Vlad is he did not pitch to a ERA of 3.18, with 156K’s in 130.1 innings too.
MLB has a stat called WAR to compare player value, guessing you’re not familiar. Ohtani 9.0, Vlad 6.8. Not close.
There you have it-WAR is unassailable and the final determinant of all things baseball.
You’re an idiot and literally know nothing about baseball. Not a thing. You can’t make a single good argument for anyone other than Ohtani who just put together the second most remarkable season in the last 40 years.
“Yes he had a good combined season”
He played in the same single season that everyone else did. One season.
“but neither his pitching or hitting on it’s own was near worthy of this award.”
But since his pitching and hitting happened together, in the same single season, why would this matter?
Ohtani did two things well Crushed the baseball and was success as a pitcher
Cue the Ohtani haters/idiots.
Disagree=Hate. How logical of you.
Ohtani had an absolutely amazing season. Did things only Ruth has done but against far better competition.
I’m going to be able to brag about being there to witness it live for years to come.
I remember rumors of a japanese babe ruth possibly coming to mlb. And boy were they spot on. He’s unbelievable
I remember talk that a minor leaguer named Mike Trout was the next Mickey Mantle. Nonsense I said. I was wrong!
The Angels have the “next” Ruth and the “next” Mantle, and they still can’t win. Baseball.
Team sport.
Yep. Team game for sure.
They haven’t had Trout and Ohtani for the same season.
there seems to be an excellent chance of lockout. enjoy while we are at it!
“Choking on offense when it counted most”. The stats that Ry has picked out directly contradict your claim. Do your research first next time
The rules on how to vote for MVP are (1) actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense; (2) number of games played; (3) general character, disposition, loyalty and effort; (4) former winners are eligible; and (5) members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.
In a season where several top offensive performers did NOT make the post season you’ll end up with a vote like you had this year in the NL where the best player on the best team got some 1st place votes, winning does matter, value to your team the #1 criteria. The top 4 players were on all the ballots so there’s none of that petty leaving a guy off a ballot entirely BS.
guess who the voters are.
sfjackcoke – Which is why Brandon Crawford —despite fine seasons from Harper and Soto— should be the NL MVP.
Lol. Crawford??? Nah dog. Not even in the top 5. Man Giants fans are really out there.
Harper’s hitting was almost 40% better than Crawford’s by league standards. And that’s while also hitting the most solo homeruns in baseball. Get over it dude.
Even if you have to make the playoffs to be MVP, tell me how Brandon Crawford outdid Austin Riley? The only metric would be that the Giants won more regular season games than the Braves and that shortstop is a tougher defensive position than 3B. But Crawford had an awesome year and deserved lots of top 5 or 6 MVP votes, as did Riley and Goldie. Muncy tapered off toward the end or he would be in that bunch as well.
No hate to Ohtani, supremely talented individual. But how are you the MVP when your team finished in 4th place? I get they’d be worse without him but so would every team if you remove their best player. Makes more sense for the MVP to come from a playoff team bc then you could argue “this team wouldn’t have made the playoffs with out player x.” With Ohtani it’s like “this team could have finished last without him” which seems less impressive.
None of this year’s finalists were on playoff teams. Go back to bed, you tacky ol’ thumb-looking, graham cracker eatin fool
I laughed way too hard at this
@Fletcher, that was both descriptive and entertaining. I find myself trying to actually picture a tacky ol’ thumb-looking, graham cracker eating fool.
You must be easily entertained.
Who knows
Lmao
it is an individual award and has nothing to do with team record. mike trout has won a few times and discussion no more!
Absolutely. I don’t care if the award is called most valuable player it goes to the best player. Cal Ripken Junior once won the MVP and his team lost 95 games
Every season is different. Some years it’s a player whose presence made his team win like Kirk Gibson in 1988. His impact was enormous. Other times it’s someone whose individual numbers are so phenomenal they’re hard to ignore like Ernie Banks in ’58 and ’59. The Cubs had a losing record in both seasons, finishing fifth each time out of eight teams.
You mention Gibson. I just watched something on missing baseball artifacts. I never knew they never recovered that homerun ball. Years later a bunch of people claimed to have it but none could be verified.
It could seem less impressive, but it isn’t. If you removed the best player from each team, no team would be a full nine wins worse, except for LAA, or at least that’s the theory behind the analytics. Now, if you just don’t buy into this WAR thing, I don’t blame you.
Ohtani innings would be replaced with a guy who had an ERA above 6 and a hitter with an OPS+ about 60.
No one in their right mind would factor that into an MVP vote, but fans make similar cases all the time.
Ohtani is a great talent.. but Simien or Vlad Jr should have won it. This guy has no pressure on a losing team. Remember when he pitched against the Yankees??? Come on… I understand the league needs a face but sorry it’s not a guy that didn’t perform in second half at all
Do you remember when he pitched against the Yankees? He left with two outs and the bases loaded. A couple pitches later all three runs scored.
I think that happened to him twice and it really screwed with his ERA.
The Angels might have been the worst team in baseball in allowing inherited runners to score, I’m not saying they were, I’m saying they were awful.
The voting was unanimous. Next case, please…
No pressure? You realize he has not just his entire country actively rooting for him but quite possibly the entire eastern hemisphere. No pressure though.
Very good point, but not even MVP for 1st half
Come on Ohtani Was the American league starting pitcher any batted lead off for the American League in the All-Star game and hit in the home run derby
MVP
Soto should of won the MVP. The writers are bias agaisnt him because his team sucks
Bryce Harper has a very good contract. Take him at 330 all day over a pitcher (Cole) or a declining offensive SS (Lindor)
Over Tatis or Machado though? Great season for Bruce Hooper though, no disrespect intended.
Tatis was signed after 2 seasons so that’s not comparable. And yes I would take Harper over Machado at 330 v 300 all day
Fair assessment, I was just looking for input on $300m contracts across the board.
Harper > Hoskins. Now trade the first base atrocity for someone who can produce behind MV3
Jr grew up in OC.Beach kid! What’s to understand,Toronto or Newport,Laguna, & Huntington Beach’s.
Even as a diehard Blue Jays fan I I am encouraged by the fate of humanity by seeing that Ohtani won the MVP award unanimously. I cannot begin to even fathom how anybody could see how he could finish second
@Galdom, Ohtani’s season was important for more reasons than just baseball. Did you notice his head-bow reaction to the announcement? He’s such a positive role model, even for older people like me.
Very good sarcasm from both of you…..at least I hope so.
Please tell me it was this one:
wiseu-store.com/shohei-ohtani-t-shirt-photo-collag…
People can not “like it” & also not be “bigots”, dude
.
It seems that would require a bit more critical thinking than you are capable of, however.
So, you’re at least partially impressed by Ohtani because he’s “Asian”? There are about 50 countries in Asia, composing thousands of languages (yes, thousands) and a distinct culture to go with each, an astoundingly diverse region of the world and you pick one individual who happens to play the game of baseball very well, who is also Japanese and does not in the remotest way identify with ANY of the other cultures in Asia, but you seem to think it’s important for you to assume the opposite? If that wasn’t absurd enough, you inject politics into the issue of an MVP choice, that somehow, “you-know-who” chose to instigate violence against such a diverse people? Wearing a tee shirt is your idea of resolving the issue? Look up the definition of bigotry and then take a long look in a mirror.
How many teams currently have 2 homegrown MVP’s?Ownership needs to turn the page and be the #1 payroll team and take advantage of this once in a lifetime opportunity for the great fans of the Angels.My guess is if they do ,they most certainly will come Arte!
The Dodgers have Bellinger and Kershaw.
Not sure how Ohtani could be defined as home grown? He was a professional before he played for the Angels
It’s in the Angels’ team name. The Los Angeles at Anaheim at Oshu, Iwate, Japan Angels.
Hey Cey! Do you see your Blue retaining Kersh? Just curious what your take is, Happy Thanksgiving (soon!)
@Gwinning, I have mixed emotions. While he’s obviously a franchise icon, at some point the $30M a year contracts have to stop because he’s not that guy anymore. It’s been a great relationship for both sides, so it wouldn’t be a case of the team screwing an icon should they not reach an agreement.
Interesting decisions coming up regarding Kershaw and Scherzer. Even though it can be argued Max is a better pitcher at this point, it would be weird letting Kershaw walk and keeping an even older pitcher who just arrived. You’ve probably seen some of the same stuff I have: Dodger fans complaining that they’re letting a first-ballot Hall of Famer go and replacing him with Andrew Heaney. Then there’s Bauer, another newcomer who was given a higher AAV than Kershaw last winter. An, of course, all the other free agents.
Happy Thanksgiving to you as well. I’m bracing for my wife having a re-do of her knee replacement surgery from summer 2020 that didn’t turn out so well. Otherwise, I’m following the Hot Stove and trying to assess the 2021 year in music.
The Dodgers are worth enough and make enough so that signing Scherzer or not should have nothing to do with offering Kershaw a contract. Only Kershaw’s health is a factor.
Ohtani is not homegrown.
Thank goodness for Ohtani or this cy young/mvp year might have been one of the worst of all time.
I disagree but holy moly your screen name just floored me
Don’t know if you can say he hates them. I don’t believe he does. But he doesn’t care about Chinese peoples individual freedoms nor does he care about freedom of religion. He’s definitely Not the person espn makes him out to be.
How does Jeff Mathis not get a single vote?!
Seriously, hard to argue against the winners. Congrats to them.
Hopefully this is just the beginning!Go Halos!
Absolutely nothing wrong with being a runner up to MVP at age 22. Ohtani deserved it no questions asked, doesn’t take away from Vlad’s year.
Will be fun to see over the next few years if Ohtani can keep this pace if any one in the AL will be able to knock him out of the top spot
I’ve been a baseball fan since 1968 and I’ve never seen as many phenomenal young players at the same time as right now (at least on the offensive side). If MLB can’t market these players to a new generation of fans, something is wrong.
Very true
And they are much better much younger it feels like.
And they exude so much personality. As a followup to the games in England and the Ichiro series in Japan, MLB should consider doing the same in other countries. Market the game internationally. Now’s the time to do it.
They can’t. They’ve already been proven incompetent in marketing. Doesn’t help espn makes no attempt to promote baseball either. They put more effort into the WNBA.
El Niño (22) and Soto (23) just might be battling MV3 for this award for many years to come! Exciting times, especially when this CBA gets done!
Does a team winning matter? Ask Ernie Banks in 1958 and 1959, Mike Trout in 2016 and 2109 (at least the Angels did win in his MVP 2014) or Andre Dawson in 1987, just to name a few. Each of those seasons, the players were riding high in the popularity contest. My question is how come Willie Mays didn’t win more. He should have won about 8 MVPs.
Even though it was a Cy Young, Steve Carlton pitched for a really bad Phillies team in 1972. He won, the team didn’t.
Being on a winning team hasn’t always mattered.
Some years it does, some years it doesn’t. There’s no precise formula to determine value. Statistics can be a guide but aren’t the end-all.
More and more it doesn’t matter.
I’d say it matters as a tie breaker. When it’s close, the players who plays meaningful games and playoffs becomes naturally more top of mind and their performances are more memorable to voters
Wait…. So a DH can win it?
Vlad would of won by a wide margin had he played in Boston, NY or LA.
No he would not have.
A Yankee did not win Ohtani’s ROY. Writers are not idiots. Fans sometimes are. Case in point. Vlad should have won MVP.
We’re obviously not exposed to the same writers…but Vlad should have indeed won it.
And you bias is obviously affecting your opinion.
No one with a clue thinks Vlad should have won.
…and of course, writers are totally unbiased, but if they were, it certainly wouldn’t affect their opinion.
I have a clue…I think vladdy should have won
Take away Ohtani and the angels go from bad to crap….take away Vlad from Toronto and you don’t have a 91 win team…or anything close…you might have the angels!
Also no talk of the intangibles vladdy brought to the team/league. He was constantly miked up and featured mlb tv features, considered by many of his contemporaries to be the kindest man in baseball…..
Don’t forget this is the most valued player…not just best stats
“.take away Vlad from Toronto and you don’t have a 91 win team…or anything close…you might have the angels”
Soooo you didn’t watch the Blue Jays this season then?
“Also no talk of the intangibles vladdy brought to the team/league. He was constantly miked up and featured mlb tv features”
Yeah, totally unlike that wallflower Ohtani.
“Don’t forget this is the most valued player”
No it isn’t. It’s the most valuable player.
How many wins did Vlad log this year ?
The voting was unanimous and was done by two voters from each of the 15 American League cities. These people cover Major League Baseball for a living, They had an entire season to consider various candidates. Why do you think you’re right and all 30 voters are wrong?
The toxicity on this site is insane sometimes. Vlad will undoubtedly get his MVPs, but Ohtani had a truly historic season and clearly deserves the awards. In the NL, no clear winner out of Soto/Harper/Tatis, so no problem seeing Harper take it home. It kills me as a Braves fan to admit, but his contract is one of the best in baseball and gives them a foundational player for the next decade. For context – Freddie is about to get 5 million more per year in his age 33+ seasons, while the Phillies get Harper in his prime. Cheers to VonPurpleHayes and Darkside, you guys represent your city and team well and deserve a win after the way the season shook out. Hopefully next September is equally as exciting for the division – and equally as disappointing for the Mets.
“Toxicity” on this site is exceeded only by exaggeration.
Oh, everyone’s a critic…
my favorite comment. should be pinned to the top.
Vad, Jr should have won it and Sal Perez right up there. Ohtani a few votes but definitely not the winner. Franco sounds like Ohtani’s PR agent.
Can’t believe perez finished 7th. I figured he was top 5 along with Correa.
I get it Bryce Harper had a good season but if a tree falls in the middle of the forest does it make a sound? The MVP should have gone to Freddie Freeman. A case could be made for Trea Turner as well but Freeman was the clear MVP in the NL.
Freeman wasn’t even the best candidate on his own team, but Freeman was definitely worthy of consideration. I think Harper, Soto and Tatis were the right choices for top 3. To me Harper and Soto are the clear top two. Experts agreed. The Braves and Dodgers offense was stacked. Harper had very little help.
the NL MVP has under 40hr and only 80 something RBI with a .307 BA? Good lord baseball has changed
@jeremyn, You must be new to baseball. Go look up at some past MVPs.
OF Kirk Gibson won the National League MVP award in 1988 with 25 HR, 76 RBI, and batted only.290. He had 157 hits and scored 106 runs. The Dodgers won the pennant that year.
2013 Andrew McCutchen 21 HRs 84 RBIs 0.317 average and 27 SBs
2021 Bryce Harper 35 HRs 84 RBIs 0.309 average and 13 SBs
The counting stats you cite are noteworthy but not exclusive
I get the argument from both sides. What ohtani did hasnt been seen since babe ruth. And good on him to dominate from both sides of the ball. So i get why he won the mvp.
But pure stats wise vlad jr was the mvp. He put up numbers that no 22 has put up in the history of baseball he had more AB then ohtani while having 70 less strikeouts and maintaining a .311 BA. Oh and not to forget vlad jr was also named the youngest all star mvp. So arguments could and should be made for both getting it i personally believe it should havr been a duo winner.
Does this mean Ohtani will win the MVP for the next 10 years, if healthy? He doesn’t need 48 bombs but 30 is close enough
I don’t think so. I think the initial shock and novelty will wear off, and a player who adds defensive value could challenge him for the MVP.
It’s more likely that a healthy season from Trout next year wil mean Ohtani isn’t even the most valuable player on his team . trout has had 8 seasons with higher WAR than Ohtani this season.
I think it would be unfair to call what he did a novelty. No one else has been a two way player. I’m not arguing with you. I just don’t see how anyone else could be as valuable, considering the Halos were no where close to the postseason and he won it
He was the most valuable player in the AL pretty easily. I’m not arguing this year, I’m just saying next year if he has the exact same year, there is a likelihood that Trout or a position player could be more valuable, he’s not automatically the MVP for the next 10 years.
There are 3 main ways to add value in baseball. Defence, offense and pitching. Ohtani has 2/3 because he does not add defensive value, his 2/3 is definitely the most rare, but trout as a CF has been more valuable to the angels in 8(!!) seasons compared to ohtani’s value this year.
Again not taking anything at all away from him, I’m a big fan and if I had a vote I wouldn’t blink before voting for him. Just saying, positional players have been worth more in the past so no reason to believe it can’t happen again
Ohtani is basically going to be a PR tool until it’s impractical for him to continue as a SP. There’s a reason why no one (even Ruth) has ever made a serious effort at it and the frails of his humanity will soon be apparent. He may be an occasional spot RP, which woulds makle sense but his SP appearances will not be significant.
Babe Ruth was a fat, cigar smoking, drunken slob. That’s why he couldn’t continue to do both. As long as Ohtani remains in shape there’s no reason to believe he won’t continue to be able to be solid from both sides of the ball.
Yeh, alcohol and MLB players are really a rare occurance, especially with MVP candidates, and great players never smoked and they were all in perfect physical condition. You’ll remember this post with a very red face when Ohtani is anchored in the OF exclusively before age 30 and after an inconsistent span as a SP. He’s not unusual per the talent, just unusual that he chose to use the talent with the consent of a team that needed to put asses in the seats. You need to take a huge reality pill with your next glass of Perrier.
In 1979, It was a forgone conclusion the Don Baylor was the MVP. Looking back, he wasn’t even the MVP of his team.
Writers have gotten a lot smarter, those fans who think Vlad should have won haven’t.
Writers a “lot smarter”? The typical sports writer thinks of themselves as journalists first and foremost. They despise sports as beneath their skills as potential Pulitzer Prize winners and think of the job as a temporary gig on the road to a lot bigger things than interviewing and writing about who they see as subhuman jocks speaking broken English or none at all.
They focus on the provocative and the sensational at the expense of truth and dignity. They’re mostly liers and race hustlers who will latch on to whatever gets them attention and the opportunity to be covered and lauded by one of their own. More of a lot of disgusting things but certainly not smarter.
You know a lot of these writers. I’m related to one who gets mentioned on this site all the time,
You know less about writers than you do about MVP voting.
I will agree that there is a difference between sports journalism and features and opinion pieces.
I disagree with the rest of your negative comments about sports writers.
My only criticism is that more of them do not expose the racism and sexism in professional sports.
There is virtually no racism in the U.S. and hasn’t been for at least three generations. You’re probably confusing racism with bigotry. Not sure what you mean by “sexism” but I suspect it’s just an emotional reflex from a personal experience or observation.
Please open your eyes.
Black Lives Matter
Me, too
United States is probably one of the least racist places in the world. There’s really no debate.
Things can always improve of course, and as a society we should always strive to be better but the sky is not falling and the US is not the racism hell hole so many make it out to be.
I disagree with the poster who said there is virtually no racism and sexism in this country.
I can agree that there is less racism and sexism in the U.S. than in most countries.
My point was that sports writers treat some stars like Peyton Manning with kid gloves. There is harassment, sexism and racism in professional sports, at least at the level of elsewhere.
More generally, I find that journalists are usually thoughtful decent people. But there is a lot of opinion that pretends to be news.
The correct answers. Shohei did what Vlad did while also having devote time to try do do what Robbie Ray did. Separate awards, but it’s gotta matter. and the NL was a toss up… at the end of the day, the fact that “TatE6” is a thing won it for Bryce LMAO
I felt like for most of the season (all the way up to about a month left), it was Tatis’ award to lose….and he lost it. He’s among my favorite players to watch and he’ll have plenty of chances to get hardware, but his collapse fit in perfectly with the Padres collapse to leave the door open. I personally would have voted for Soto, but all 3 “deserved” it and it’s tough to be upset at the results. Well, looking through some of the responses on here, not as tough to be upset as I might have thought, but….you know what I mean.
wow. very toxic thread. I’ll try to be brief. What Ohtani did was unprecedented. Have to start by being fair to that. To judge him as pitcher and as a hitter is unfair. He takes up 1 roster spot and had to help a decimated team be somewhat competitive. While he was in the game consider his impact: pitching, hitting, speed, base-stealing, and even bunting & defense he had an impact. Add that he probably was tired towards the 2nd half, and was obviously pitched much differently and had to adjust in the 2nd half and have all eyes on him once he got rolling. Add the fact that another country watching his every move in to this historic season. And he was super nice all around guy and a great teammate while doing 2 full time jobs all season. Hard to judge a guy when you really don’t have much or any to compare to. Just appreciate how amazing he was in all the aspects he was involved with. That to me is value , and to me why Ohtani was unanimous MVP. I love Vladdy Jr. and he’ll get his, but this year was Ohtani.
Well said, but that certainly wasn’t brief. ;^)
Imagine for a second if Bryce Harper would have signed with the Giants? Would the Giants have won the World Series this year?
Harper + 107 wins, we will never know….
That’s a big what if. Harper would’ve helped any of the postseason teams. I imagine Yelich not stinking and actually hitting like an MVP. The Brewers more than likely would’ve hoisted the trophy
Except if Harper had signed with the Giants maybe they would not have had money for their starting rotation.
Was absolutely pulling for Harper & Ohtani. Ohtani is obvious. Harper… I thought they’d skip over just because of the time in-between awards. Congrats to Bryce. Well deserving. Regret the Cubs didn’t sign this guy. A workhorse.
Say what you want, but Vladdy should have won. He had better numbers in almost every important category. These voters don’t make much sense to me
Ahh, Vladdy didn’t have any pitching stats in the top 7. He’s missing a few categories. Better run your numbers again
You’re 100% right.. that 3.18 ERA and 250 AVG from Ohtani is somethings we’ll never see again lol
Average? You people are nuts.
Vlad’s ERA, WHIP, FIP, Ks, K/9, BB/9, K/BB, H/9, HR/9 ERA+, and WAR were all way way worse than Ohtani’s.
Actually Vlad’s ERA was 0.00 🙂
I am shaking my fist at my monitor. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, DAGNABIT
Ohtani was #1 for WAR among all players while Harper was tied for #19. Austin Riley and others had more WAR than Harper in 2021, though admittedly a lot were pitchers. Correa, Semien, Soto all had more WAR.
Yeah, Harper may be deserving but I think Soto should have won it.
There is a really good argument to be made for Soto. There is no argument to be made for Vlad.
That literally makes no sense.. Vlad was basically leading Ohtani in every hitting category, and you say there’s no argument? Yea Ohtani pitched good (not great) we’ve seen better and worse
There is no argument. Ohtani face about 400 more batters.
Is there a non Blue Jays fan that thinks Vlad should have won? I highly doubt it.
And Vladdy didn’t pitch at all.
I’m not a blue jays fan and I think Vlad should have won
How did you miss Ohtani affecting games by pitching to 533 batters with an ERA+ of 141.
While pitching for the Angels. Nolan Ryan never had an ERA+ of better than 141.
How could anyone in their right mind not factor that in?
People are nuts.
I honestly don’t get this?.. Vladdy was leading in HRs, RBIs, Batting average (by a lot) OBP, OPS, etc…. But Ohtani wins? Yea ok
What is it about 130innings of top notch pitching you don’t understand.
How does anyone not get that?
He pitched good (not great) an ERA of over 3.00 doesn’t = an MVP in my opinion. If his pitching was that good, he should have won the CY young.
“an ERA of over 3.00 doesn’t = an MVP”
I find that a single statistic in a vacuum is always the best litmus test for awards.
So you are saying, if one pitcher pitcher 20-0 with an era of 0.100 and another pitcher (“B”) was 19-1 with an era of 3.01, but the second pitcher hit 0.300 with 50 home runs, and,
One batter hit 0.301 with 51 home runs. The other batter was pitcher B who hit 0.300 with 50 home runs who does not deserve Cy Young, they cannot be MVP? That is silly.
Ohtani was the MVP. It was close because Guerrero was great, too.
All I’m saying is that Vlad should have won MVP (and I’m not a huge Jays fan) His pitching was good (not great) his hitting was great, but not as great as Vlad. Batting average of 250, striking out almost 200 times, and an ERA over 3 wasn’t phenomenal (and all 3 of those stats are important) I personally think Ohtani should have came in 2nd (yes he had a great year) and anybody would love him on their team, but if my research is correct, I don’t think Ohtani even made the top 10 in CY votes (so his pitching wasn’t great) yea it was good, but shouldn’t factor into an MVP if he didn’t even make the top 10 in CY votes
“(so his pitching wasn’t great) yea it was good, but shouldn’t factor into an MVP if he didn’t even make the top 10 in CY votes”
This is nonsense. The voting results for a different award making the value of Ohtani’s pitching zero is bananas, There’s no causal, relationship between CY Young voting results and player performance/value.
I don’t get how people are finding it so impossible to Ohtani’s ’21 as a single season, instead of reflexively splitting it into OhtaniHitter and OhtaniPitcher.
The more I think about this, Ohtani should win the MVP for the next 10 years with a sub 4 ERA and a .260 or above average with 25 or higher HR’s, 80
plus RBI’s. Who could possibly be more valuable than that? A great offensive year or pitching excellence alone just isn’t enough.
Mike Trout has 8 seasons in which he was more valuable (fangraphs WAR) than Ohtani was this year. He was the most valuable this year but he is not automatically the MVP for the next 10 years, even if he does keep this exact pace up.
As a side note, baseball_dude, Vladdy is awesome. If you’re a Toronto fan, be glad you got him. I like the Jays shot at winning a WS over the injury riddled Angels. I would like to see Trout in the postseason again though
Do you think his Father would dare go to a game with a t-shirt that said “Vladdy Daddy”?
For both the AL and NL, none of the top three vote-getters played on a team that made the playoffs.
Had the Padres been in the race (they were not) for a post-season spot, Tatis deserved to win. The Phillies were at least in the race.
Goldie, Riley, Crawford, Muncy, Garcia, those were top NL position players on teams for the whole season that made playoffs. Judge, Correa, Abreu, Lowe and Devers in AL.
I agree with the players picked, just noting the top tallies went to players on teams that did not make post-season.
The crazy thing is, believe it or not, even with that 79-83 record, it still would’ve have given them the final playoff spot in the National League if the expanded playoff system from the 2020 season was still in place. That just goes to show how weak it was outside of the Giants, Dodgers, Brewers, Cardinals and Braves (records of teams on the outside looking in had win-loss records as high as 83-79 and as low as 52-110).
Should be a rule that you have to make the playoffs to qualify for the MVP.
Tell that to Mike Trout
Would you rather have Harper or Tatis on your team?
I would go Tatis all day long. Tatis over Harper for MVP
I would much rather have Tatis or Soto than Harper.
But Phillies were in the post-season race a lot longer than the Padres, that is the only reason that I have Harper ahead of both Tatis and Soto.
To anyone who doesn’t think Shohei is deserving you clearly don’t understand the game. Regardless of the stats (which were amazing), the durability to do this for a whole season is unparalleled. I’ll doubt he’ll be able to do it again as he was fading in the second half. Appreciate greatness. Vlad had a great season, but there’s nothing historic about it.
It’s the most VALUABLE player
Take Otani off of the angels this year and where are they….a little worse off, so not bad but crap
Take Vlad off the jays…..
They lost a significant number of games in may and June with bullpen collapses, but you take Vladdy off the jays those first 2 months and the jays easily lose 10 more games….just in that period.
1 game out with the al’s best team after august firsts most valuable should have meant more then the guy who made a crappy team just bad.
I would counter by looking at the fact that the other runner up for MVP was also on the Jays as well as the winner of the CY Young. Not to mention Bo and Springer weren’t too bad either. To say Vlad had that big an impact is a bit much. Oh and that “crappy” Angels team took 4 of 7 over the Jays head to head.
Plus they are also the same team that denied the overachieving Mariners of at least a wild card tiebreaker, who MLB.com says should have went 76-86 based on their -51 run differential.
It’s crazy how the narrative has flipped on making the playoffs and winning the MVP (feel Trout has had a big part in this). What Ohtani did hasn’t been done ever so that right there deserves the award but was Bryce Harper’s season really good enough to win it on a bad team? I have my doubts but I guess there wasn’t a true standout on a team that made the playoffs in the NL
The Phillies were not a bad team, though they are a poorly built team. The Phillies were in the playoff mix until the Braves made acquisitions to replace Acuna and Ozuna and snatched the division lead back.
Harper had a very good season but Tatis or Soto were more deserving. Not a travesty by any means. If Tatis played a handful more games it would have been a lock.
You can argue Soto. I don’t see Tatis being more deserving than Harper, especially since Tatis tapered off towards the end of the season while Soto and Harper got better.
I see there are a lot of very casual and/or biased baseball fans commenting.
All 3 nl finalist from teams that missed the playoffs. That’s just ugly. Makes me want to throw up in my mouth a little.
Did you throw up last year too when Trout won? Getting to the playoffs has nothing to do with the MVP award.
Led all MLB in WAR. Recieved all 30 of the first place votes from the BBWAA in MVP voting. Recognized as Player of the Year by Baseball Digest, Baseball America and Sporting News. Named MLBPA Player of the Year by his peers. But MLBTR readers know better…
The same media sources that have a 16% public confidence rating. You have a lot of “confidence” in those who are basically con artists. Ok on POY because of the gimmick factor that should last a few more yrs until he plays exclusively in the OF. Much too early to project a great career at any position.
Good post… I neglected to consider con artists and the gimmack factor.
Good post? The guy can’t tell the difference between news media who want to get their people elected and baseball digest?
It is not a good post in any way shape or form. Ohtani won the MVP because he pitched to 533 batters and had a great deal off success against those hitters. Had he not had great success against those 533 batters or had not pitched, he would not have won MVP.
Every clear thinking knowledgeable baseball person knows this.
I was having a baseball conversation with some Guppie Phan here in Sofla this morning. I was saying that just maybe when the Phillies travel to other cities, the chant “Over Rated” would stop..After reading the diatribes writen here, I was wrong..Haters just gotta hate….
I think what Harper did after getting hit in the face with a 97mph fastball was just unreal..to be able to get it back together and step into the box was nothing short of amazing..