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Cardinals To Sign Steven Matz

By Anthony Franco | November 24, 2021 at 1:22am CDT

The Cardinals have made a late-night strike to bolster their rotation, reportedly reaching agreement with free agent starter Steven Matz on a four-year, $44MM guarantee, pending a physical. Incentives could eventually push that figure as high as $48MM. Matz is a client of Icon Sports Management.

Matz reportedly fielded offers from eight clubs, and interest was robust enough that he’d been expected to sign before Thanksgiving. Teams’ affinity for the 30-year-old is also evident in the eventual contract terms, as Matz’s deal fairly handily tops MLBTR’s three-year, $27MM projection entering the winter.

The left-hander has been a reliable rotation member for the majority of the past few years. He’s eclipsed 150 innings and posted an ERA between 3.82 and 4.21 in each of the last three 162-game seasons. His peripherals haven’t been quite as impressive, but Matz has typically offered near league average rate numbers while reliably taking the ball every fifth day.

Matz has never had elite swing-and-miss stuff. That continued to be the case in 2021, as his 22.3% strikeout percentage and 9.4% swinging strike rate were both a bit shy of the respective league average marks (22.6% and 10.9%) for starting pitchers. That’s arguably less alarming for St. Louis than it would be for other clubs around the league, as the Cardinals have reportedly been seeking pitchers best equipped to take advantage of the team’s elite defense. Matz seems to fit that bill, as he annually posts walk rates lower than most and typically induces ground balls at a slightly higher than average rate.

He’s also one of the harder throwers available, averaging 94.5 MPH on his sinker in each of the past two years. That’s particularly rare for a left-handed starter, with only seven other southpaws (minimum 100 innings) throwing harder on average in 2021. He’ll add a different look to a Cardinals rotation that otherwise projects to include right-handers Adam Wainwright, Jack Flaherty, Miles Mikolas and Dakota Hudson.

Further adding to Matz’s appeal is that the Blue Jays declined to issue him a qualifying offer at the start of the offseason. The signing won’t cost St. Louis any draft pick compensation, and Toronto won’t receive any form of compensation for his departure. The Jays were reportedly among the teams to put forth an offer in hopes of keeping Matz north of the border, but that effort proved not to be enough to keep him in a Jays uniform for more than one season.

There’s plenty about Matz for the St. Louis front office to like, but this deal does come with its share of risk. While Matz was a solid performer in three of the past four seasons, his 2020 campaign was nothing short of a disaster. He was tagged for a 9.68 ERA across 30 2/3 innings that year, serving up a staggering 14 home runs in that time. Including that showing deals a heavy blow to Matz’s otherwise fairly solid recent work.

Going back to the start of 2018, he owns a cumulative 4.36 ERA/4.55 FIP in just under 500 frames. That’s not particularly impressive production in aggregate, worse than that of Anthony DeSclafani, who signed for three years and $36MM with the Giants on Monday. DeSclafani is a year older than Matz is, and perhaps the Cardinals are simply willing to write off 2020 as a small sample in an overall anomalous year.

Homers have been an issue for Matz for the bulk of his career in spite of his ground-ball proclivities, though. He’s generally given up a lot of hard contact when batters have managed to get the ball in the air against him. The 2021 campaign was the first of his career in which he’s allowed a homer per fly ball rate lower than the league mark. Whether he can sustain that kind of success keeping the ball in the yard could go a long way towards determining whether he’ll continue to post a sub-4.00 ERA over the coming seasons.

The specifics on Matz’s contract have yet to be reported, but he’ll receive an average annual value of $11MM. The Cardinals have the flexibility to accommodate an eight figure salary over the coming few seasons, with Jason Martinez of Roster Resource projecting the club’s 2022 player commitments in the $142MM range before accounting for Matz’s deal. Their obligations come out around $77MM in 2023. The franchise has opened the past few seasons with payrolls hovering right around $160MM, so a flat $11MM annual payment would leave somewhere around $7MM – $10MM in 2022 spending capacity if ownership signs off on a similar payroll next year. (Backloading the deal would obviously leave more immediate space but have a higher hit on the club’s future commitments).

That could allow St. Louis to make another addition or two elsewhere on the roster, and Katie Woo of the Athletic tweets that the Cardinals are expected to continue to add. It’s already a solid group without many obvious holes on paper, although shortstop, backup catcher and the bullpen all stand out as speculative possibilities for upgrades over the coming months.

Jeff Passan of ESPN reported that the Cardinals and Matz were in agreement on a four-year, $44MM guarantee that could max out at $48MM based on incentives.

Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.

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Newsstand St. Louis Cardinals Transactions Steven Matz

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View Comments (269)
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269 Comments

  1. 8ManLineupNoPitcherNoDH

    4 years ago

    Nice signing for the redbirds

    17
    Reply
    • Francys01

      4 years ago

      Steven Matz welcome to the Cardinals.

      12
      Reply
    • Chief Two Hands

      4 years ago

      Yeah, solid addition. The Cards don’t need him to be anything other than a supportive piece in the rotation and the annual cost is relatively mild. They also needed a left-handed starting pitcher.

      11
      Reply
    • to4

      4 years ago

      This will allow them to keep Oviedo and Cabrera in the bullpen with Reyes, Hicks and Gallegos !

      It all depends though !

      Reply
    • Deadguy

      4 years ago

      I wish I could feel good about this signing. 4 years, I just hope it isn’t a 4 years riddled with injury. Matz was the least attractive pitcher avaliable in my opinion. I think about Leake, I think about Martinez, I think about Mikolas, I think about Fowler… they all signed for about the same amount in years and money and the Cardinals got what they paid for… and less.

      This doesn’t push the needle for me, fills a void of need with a replacement thats going to be about as good as the person he was replacing from last year? So in other words the Cardinals front office is settling for what they’ve settled for the last few years. Being good enough to trick the fan base into buying tickets cause team is good enough to make the playoffs, but will do almost nothing to make it a certifiable world series contender cause the Cardinals only win the world series when the players get really lucky, not because the front office put them in a place to succeeded.

      3
      Reply
      • StlSwifty

        4 years ago

        I agree. This is the typical bargain bin shopping I’ve become used to as a cards fan. Im not sure Matz moves the needle for us at all. Especially if he’s blocking younger players like Reyes. And if this means we don’t have enough money left to sign stroman, then it’s going to be another disappointing offseason for the cards.

        Reply
      • willyg60

        4 years ago

        Cards spent a lot more money on others! Your wrong friend

        Reply
      • Lanidrac

        4 years ago

        First, the jury is still out on that Mikolas extension. He had a very good 2019 and looked at lot like his old self by the end of last season once finally healthy.

        Second, Leake wasn’t that bad. While he was a mild disappointment compared to what he was paid, his performances with the Cardinals weren’t that far off from what was advertised.

        Third, Matz is at the very least a significant improvement over the likes of Martinez, Oviedo, Gant, Ponce de Leon, etc. who the Cardinals were throwing out at the back end of their rotation last year.

        1
        Reply
  2. terry g

    4 years ago

    I didn’t expect this at all.

    14
    Reply
    • GareBear

      4 years ago

      True but definitely a good fit on paper

      7
      Reply
    • socraticgadfly

      4 years ago

      I definitely DID expect it. And, yesterday in comments, to another Birds fan who was overpricing him, I almost got it right. Was off by a year, as I said 3/$33

      6
      Reply
      • deweybelongsinthehall

        4 years ago

        I thought the ERod deal would have increased his value given the lack of compensation. A fair deal on paper.

        1
        Reply
      • Deminzzzzr 2

        4 years ago

        @Gadfly—Just off by 25%! Celebrate your intelligence my friend!

        9
        Reply
        • JoeBrady

          4 years ago

          Deminzzzzr 2
          @Gadfly—Just off by 25%! Celebrate your intelligence my friend!
          ===================================
          Technically, if you guess $33M, and he signs for $44M, you off by 33.3%, It would only be 25% if had guessed $44M, and he signed for $33M.

          8
          Reply
        • tstats

          4 years ago

          You used to be a good poster Joe

          3
          Reply
      • budman_63755

        4 years ago

        Want a cookie?

        1
        Reply
      • SoxRewl

        4 years ago

        Your instinct of 3 years probably was pretty safe until he started gathering such robust interest, he probably signed with the first stable franchise that offered a 4th year.

        Interesting that the market for mid rotation arms has been so busy while the top arms have had minimal interest so far. That bodes well for Gray, Rodon, maybe even Stroman over the next few days. The teams that come up empty will have to decide if they want to open up the purse strings for Gausman, Scherzer or Ray.

        1
        Reply
      • Deadguy

        4 years ago

        I would have rather seen 3 years

        2
        Reply
    • N SEA

      4 years ago

      I called it yesterday when cards fans were all in on Stroman…I wrote that Matz is a far better addition….great job STL….a huge, positive addition, and stability, to a weak pitching staff

      2
      Reply
      • commentinggenius

        4 years ago

        We are very proud of you!

        19
        Reply
        • fox471 Dave

          4 years ago

          Ya know, it doesn’t hurt to let a couple of guys celebrate a correct pick. They weren’t boasting, just excited that they got it right. Relax!

          6
          Reply
        • commentinggenius

          4 years ago

          You’re right, I’m sorry for making such a rude comment.

          4
          Reply
        • bucsfan0004

          4 years ago

          Good for Matz, even better that Crybaby Cohen is upset.

          1
          Reply
      • implant

        4 years ago

        Matz is not a better pitcher than Stroman

        46
        Reply
        • deweybelongsinthehall

          4 years ago

          Stroman”s will give his team headaches. He simply believes he’s better than what he is and to me anyway, not a winner.

          12
          Reply
        • BobGibsonFan

          4 years ago

          Dewey’s, wins dont matter. Remember that.

          Reply
        • stymeedone

          4 years ago

          He didn’t say he was a better pitcher. Sometimes a player can be a better addition because of cost, or in this case, which side he throws from. We know Correa is the best SS among FA, but if you don’t want to tie up payroll for 10 years, Story or Baez may be the better addition.

          8
          Reply
        • stymeedone

          4 years ago

          If you want to make the playoffs they do. I’ll take the 15 game winner on my team, any day!

          Reply
        • deweybelongsinthehall

          4 years ago

          As Herman Edwards once said YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME.

          Stroman is just not worth the headache that comes with him.

          4
          Reply
        • deweybelongsinthehall

          4 years ago

          Or simply by being a better teammate or clubhouse guy. Stroman to me just thinks he’s better than he actually is. Confidence is one thing but false arrogance (when you consistently don’t back it up) is another.

          Reply
        • VonPurpleHayes

          4 years ago

          Stroman is fine. He’s vocal on Twitter, but he’s hardly a club house problem. This stuff gets so exaggerated.

          13
          Reply
        • Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher

          4 years ago

          He only has to be a better pitcher than Kim. However, that might be a toss-up.

          I wonder where Kim will land? I’ll guess the Mets or Cubs.

          Reply
        • Hurricane Sandy

          4 years ago

          The Stroman being a clubhouse problem thing really is severely overstated. He gives you a chance to win every time out. Was anyone posting about Syndergaard using Twitter to foment various “beefs”? Having watched both Stroman and Matz a lot the last few years, you definitely want Stroman on the mound every fifth day and in big games…. Matz…. Not so much. He may be a solid overall addition to a rotation, but he’s more rotation filler. He can’t be trusted in any meaningful capacity. That being said, I wish him well. The Cards are one of those teams that tend to get the best out of people.

          9
          Reply
        • frontdeskmike

          4 years ago

          Who won 15 games?

          Reply
        • BRUH.SF.BRUH

          4 years ago

          @Backup maybe the Giants trade for him so they don’t have to face him anymore lol he owned us last year!

          Reply
        • Deleted Userrr

          4 years ago

          @stymeedone Wins tell you nothing about whether the team won because of the pitcher or despite him.

          Reply
        • Deleted_User

          4 years ago

          @BobGibsonFan and @stymeedone LOL

          Reply
      • asdfgh

        4 years ago

        I also wouldn’t call Wainwright, Flaherty, Hudson and Mikolas a weak rotation. When healthy these 5 are all studs.

        9
        Reply
        • fan5

          4 years ago

          Wainwright will be 41 before the 2022 postseason starts. I’m not sure when people decided age wasn’t going to impact his performance, but it will continue to do so, like any other baseball player ever. This includes in terms of health. I wouldn’t pin hopes to anything higher than “serviceable” going forward..

          2
          Reply
        • Android Dawesome

          4 years ago

          Maybe if this was 2019/2018. Other than Wainwright none of those pitchers have pitched a full season or been above average.

          2
          Reply
        • DanzigInTheDark

          4 years ago

          “When healthy” is doing a tonnn of lifting for you right there. You got 338 total innings from that quartet last year and 206 of them were from the 40 year old Wainwright.

          1
          Reply
        • tstats

          4 years ago

          Flaherty hasn’t pitched full seasons with above average results?

          2
          Reply
        • Lanidrac

          4 years ago

          Wainwright only needs to be serviceable now that Flaherty and Mikolas are healthy. Those 2 form an excellent 1-2 punch in the starting rotation.

          Reply
        • Lanidrac

          4 years ago

          Mikolas has already pitched 2 above-average full seasons for the Cardinals, and Hudson has done it once, as well.

          Reply
        • Lanidrac

          4 years ago

          The injury concerns are overrated. Despite last year, Flaherty has an overall good health record, and there shouldn’t be any concerns going forward from Hudson’s TJS. Mikolas also had a pretty good health record before these last 2 seasons.

          Reply
      • Mikel Grady

        4 years ago

        He is a #3 at best Stroman is an ace

        Reply
        • Chief Two Hands

          4 years ago

          Stroman as an ace is a stretch at best…unless you are talking about a cellar team.

          1
          Reply
        • Samuel

          4 years ago

          Stroman is a 5 inning pitcher.

          He’s inconsistent pitching, and has a volatile personality.

          Add in his hot-dogging, mix with a multi-year contract, and the team that signs him is asking for it.

          1
          Reply
        • larry48

          4 years ago

          ST Louis is a Cellar team in 2022.

          1
          Reply
    • N SEA

      4 years ago

      I called this yesterday when Cards fans were tweeting about Stroman…I said Matz was the far better choice (and cc’d him and the cards) glad they all agreed. Matz is a major upgrade for STL and a potential frontline starter. While he didn’t miss a lot of bats last year, the velocity is there and he has a very low walk rate. I like his chances!

      1
      Reply
      • commentinggenius

        4 years ago

        Still extremely proud!

        19
        Reply
        • fan5

          4 years ago

          …proud?

          Reply
      • Justin Bobko

        4 years ago

        Matz is not as good as desclafani let alone stroman

        6
        Reply
      • windmill_noise_causes_cancer

        4 years ago

        A potential frontline starter? Steven Matz? Stop drinking moonshine straight from the still.

        14
        Reply
        • stncomfort

          4 years ago

          Agree, would have rather signed Max, oh well anther low hanging fruit move by Mo.

          Reply
        • deweybelongsinthehall

          4 years ago

          At $11m for 4 years, he could be the best value of this year’s mid shelf free agents.

          3
          Reply
        • Lanidrac

          4 years ago

          They don’t need Max when they already have Flaherty (not saying they’re equal, just that the Cardinals already have a legitimate ace), and they wouldn’t be able to afford him, anyway.

          Reply
      • chiefin_wahoos

        4 years ago

        you said it once already, champ.

        Reply
        • mrperkins

          4 years ago

          It’s still true.

          1
          Reply
    • acmeants

      4 years ago

      Neither did the Mets apparently. Someone may be snakebit.

      Reply
  3. Eovaldismemes

    4 years ago

    Sexy

    2
    Reply
  4. tidybowlman

    4 years ago

    Arrrggghhh. WTF?! I’m the only patient Mets fan left and I’m about ready to scream. This is really sad.

    2
    Reply
    • bygserch

      4 years ago

      nah, I’m here. I was all for him to be moved last year (the proverbial change of scenery), but I also was always a fan, so part of me didn’t want him to go.
      Ironic, for so long our rotation was a strong point, then last year it became such a weakness after a good start. Now, with Stroman probably not deemed “worth the money” by our stupid upper mgmt, and then Thor bolting (I’m sure they just assumed he would take the QO and was penciled into the staff), we could’ve absolutely used him, both last year and this year.
      We def need to grab Stroman, another TOP/solid SP, and a TRUE swingman type, that actually has experience and success moving from rotation to bullpen and back in the same season (I honestly think if he’ll take the role and doesn’t want to retire, re-signing Rich Hill would be a smart move)

      1
      Reply
      • meckert

        4 years ago

        Probably means that they over pay for Stroman or someone else. I keep hearing that the Metsies are ready willing and able to spend big bucks but pitchers keep slipping through their fingers. What’s the deal Steve?

        1
        Reply
    • asdfgh

      4 years ago

      Better be even patient may want to read how Eppier reached his demise with the angels…pitching.

      3
      Reply
    • dugmet

      4 years ago

      Calm down uppity Mets fan. Lesson to all sports fans = Never get upset over something you cannot control.

      Reply
    • txman22

      4 years ago

      Seems like no pitchers, especially former Mets, want to sign with the Mets. Guess Stroman will be next. Wonder why.
      Hope (as a Mets fan) Noah isn’t the next Wheeler. But for Noah’s sake hope he is!

      Reply
      • Devlsh

        4 years ago

        It’s not hard to understand why players are reluctant to sign with the Mets.

        1) There’s an enormous amount of uncertainty revolving around the front office and staff.
        2) There’s a history of disfunction. and poorly diagnosed injuries.
        3) The team wasn’t very good last year, and because of the aforementioned items, there’s doubt that the correct steps will be taken or players acquired to change that.

        1
        Reply
  5. baseballpun

    4 years ago

    Does this mean no Stroman?

    2
    Reply
    • tidybowlman

      4 years ago

      I think Matz’s next few years will be better than Stro’s. That said, I think the rule is the Angles get first dibs on all ex Mets

      1
      Reply
      • baseballpun

        4 years ago

        They need a lefty so you might be right. Stroman would look good with that infield defense behind him though.

        Reply
      • PutPeteRoseInTheHall

        4 years ago

        Stroman was a pretty good pitcher in 2021. I imagine it would continue

        3
        Reply
      • socraticgadfly

        4 years ago

        I don’t think that. But, I do think that Mo didn’t want to pay $20m/yr for 5 years, which I think Stroman will bring, given what we’re seeing the market pay.

        4
        Reply
        • Deminzzzzr 2

          4 years ago

          @gadfly—Closet genius. Lolol

          Reply
      • mets7300

        4 years ago

        Your HANDLE IS APPROPRIATE….

        Reply
  6. davidk1979

    4 years ago

    Nice job by his agent.

    2
    Reply
  7. NWMarinerHawk

    4 years ago

    Talk about a perfect landing spot. He’ll be on my fantasy team next year. The Cardinals turn good pitchers into cy young contenders

    Reply
    • implant

      4 years ago

      @aj like?

      2
      Reply
      • NWMarinerHawk

        4 years ago

        Supppan, Chris Carpenter, Lohse, Lackey, Mikolas off the top of my head all had cy young caliber seasons

        2
        Reply
        • Baseballbean

          4 years ago

          lackey didn’t change much from when he was in Boston other than the stadium lmao

          1
          Reply
        • JeffreyChungus

          4 years ago

          Suppan had a 3.95 ERA, 109 ERA+, and a 4.67 FIP in his time with the Cardinals.

          Lohse had one pretty good year with STL at the end of a five-year stretch of 101 ERA+ ball

          Lackey had a good ERA in his one full season in STL, but his expected stats were still in line with what they were in Boston and Anaheim.

          Mikolas had a solid 2018, but we’ve completed 3 full campaigns since that season, and he’s been below average when he’s stayed on the field.

          With the exception of Carpenter, those guys were one-year wonders who were only Cy Young caliber if you only take pitcher wins into account

          11
          Reply
        • NWMarinerHawk

          4 years ago

          I don’t care if Matz is a one year wonder.
          The Cards have an excellent track record of maximizing free agent pitcher value and I expect Matz to be no different. He’s got a great sinker and can make a huge leap if he cuts down on the dingers. Cards do a great job of minimizing pitcher weakness and maximizing strength.
          Once the league catches up to the Cardinal led adjustments, of course they come back to earth. And they are choosy on guys they will give this kind of deal to as most of their staff is developed.

          2
          Reply
        • asdfgh

          4 years ago

          Hey genius may want to also look up the exception of Wainwright.

          2018 for Mikolas was better than solid chump.

          6
          Reply
        • SashaBanksFan

          4 years ago

          I think Lackey was already a top of rotation guy with the Angels and got cy young votes with them

          2
          Reply
        • Lanidrac

          4 years ago

          Correct on Suppan and Lackey.

          However, Lohse had 3 very good years sandwiched around 2 years lost to injury in St. Louis, and Mikolas also had a very good 2019 (in addition to his All-Star 2018) and then kept getting better over the last month of last season once he finally returned from injury.

          1
          Reply
        • stymeedone

          4 years ago

          @aj
          When you sign a player to a 4- yr contract, and they become a one yr wonder…that’s called a bust!

          6
          Reply
        • tstats

          4 years ago

          To be fair, I’m fantasy you might take the guy who wins more over someone of equal skill sets who wins less even if winning a game is based on offense

          Reply
        • NWMarinerHawk

          4 years ago

          My 2022 fantasy team doesn’t care if the long term contract is a bust.

          Reply
        • Putmeincoach12

          4 years ago

          You forgot John Tudor

          Reply
    • tstats

      4 years ago

      How risky is it to draft Heaney?

      Reply
  8. Larry Bernandez 1324IM

    4 years ago

    Heads Mark Mulder, tails Rick Ankiel

    4
    Reply
    • socraticgadfly

      4 years ago

      Mulder? Not really fair to fault injuries. Ankiel? Not Dave Duncan’s developmental fault, but it was Tony the Pony’s surprise playoff starting decision fault.

      Reply
    • asdfgh

      4 years ago

      And the coin flipped by some overweight troll!!! Milder and Ankiel will always be better off than Larry.

      Reply
      • Larry Bernandez 1324IM

        4 years ago

        Whose Milder? Overweight? Sounds like projection better than Larry Bernandez aka Felix Hernandez? Definitely not.

        Reply
  9. everlastingdave

    4 years ago

    That’s lower than I expected on the AAV. I wonder what Toronto’s looking to do now, because it looks like Matz wasn’t a priority.

    Reply
    • baseballpun

      4 years ago

      Probably prioritizing Ray.

      2
      Reply
    • TheCarlsbergKing

      4 years ago

      Carlos Correa 12 years 365 M.

      Reply
    • R Austen

      4 years ago

      I liked Matz but I think the Jays need to focus more on top of the rotation starters. #4 and #5 types seem to crop up enough such that you probably don’t or shouldn’t commit 4 years. Of course, the Jays could be wrong and Matz may continue to improve and become more of a solid #3 and he was pitching in the AL East so his numbers will probably improve a fair bit in the NL. Jays Rotation still needs a guy at the top and the bottom

      1______
      2 Berrios
      3. Manoah
      4 Ryu
      5______ (Stripling, Kay, Pearson, Thornton)

      Robbie Ray or Gausman sure would help. So would Stroman – he loved Toronto but the question is how did his teammates get along with Stroman. He’s a big personality but the guy has excellent stuff and pitched well for Toronto. He’s more of a #3 but still useful.

      3
      Reply
      • asdfgh

        4 years ago

        What do you mean by big personality?

        Reply
        • R Austen

          4 years ago

          Rumours in Toronto were that he was a clubhouse cancer – also blasting management for not acquiring players. Feuds with Grichuck on Twitter. But there is the media and there is reality. I liked Stroman as a pitcher but if the rumours are a reality then not every team will want that in the clubhouse.

          6
          Reply
        • meckert

          4 years ago

          He’s a great competitor and a very capable pitcher but also a bit of a loose canon. The type of guy other teams hate.

          2
          Reply
        • HBan22

          4 years ago

          I’ve heard mostly negative things about Stroman’s personality and clubhouse presence the past few years, which is a bummer because I was a fan of his and was rooting for him when he was first starting to establish himself. Apparently he has a massive ego and a big chip on his shoulder, maybe from being told for years that he was too small to make it as a SP. But instead of just letting his pitching do the talking, he seems to want to shove his success in everybody’s face. His Twitter seems to be mostly him posting pictures about how rich he is. Not exactly the type of guy I would want in my clubhouse.

          1
          Reply
        • Chief Two Hands

          4 years ago

          Tomatoes like volleyballs…or is that “big salad?”

          Reply
        • jimmertee

          4 years ago

          Stroman USA two turns of the batting order pitcher and emotionally unstable.

          Reply
      • jimmertee

        4 years ago

        Good analysis of BlueJays starting pitching. Kay, Pearson and Thornton all belong in the pen. That leaves Stripling. Not a good overall situation. They need an ace and another #3.

        Reply
  10. DarkSide830

    4 years ago

    at least the AAV is low…was hoping NYM would overpay to bring him back.

    1
    Reply
    • Cosmo2

      4 years ago

      Were you really hoping that? Seems weird.

      3
      Reply
      • socraticgadfly

        4 years ago

        When you’re the Mutts right now, desperation will make you do almost anything. Next, they’ll try to hire A-Rod as the new manager.

        Reply
      • DarkSide830

        4 years ago

        because he’s volatile as heck

        Reply
      • tstats

        4 years ago

        He’s the resident Phillies van with VPH

        Reply
  11. Nothing

    4 years ago

    Would’ve liked him back on the jays, but 4 years is too much. Hope he pitches well with the Cardinals. As for the jays, they need to get moving. The market is emptying quick, and they have yet to any anyone new. Gotta try and sign (or re-sign) some top FA’s because getting trades done will be extremely difficult.

    4
    Reply
    • NWMarinerHawk

      4 years ago

      Shoot, with Manoah Berrios and Ray you guys are gonna be just fine. Snag a couple innings eaters and that offense will take care of the rest.

      1
      Reply
      • Nothing

        4 years ago

        Absolutely agree…if only Ray were under contract another season (not to say we may not re-sign him). I trust Shapiro to get it done, just makes me a bit nervous seeing guys starting to drop off the board.

        2
        Reply
        • NWMarinerHawk

          4 years ago

          We’ll give you Justin Dunn for Cavan?

          Reply
        • Nothing

          4 years ago

          Would probably do that…would like a guy with some more innings under his belt, but Dunn looks solid enough.

          Reply
        • HBan22

          4 years ago

          That would be selling quite low on Biggio I feel like. I think the Jays are confident that he’ll have a bounce back year, and they have an opening at 2B now. Biggio looked much more comfortable at 2B than 3B last season, and I think he’ll get the first crack at the job next season unless they bring in a free agent.

          Reply
  12. Cosmo2

    4 years ago

    The Cardinals signed him.. he’s gonna be a star… that organization knows what it’s doing

    2
    Reply
    • baseballpun

      4 years ago

      I’m a Cards fan and I hope you’re right, but….Mike Leake.

      5
      Reply
      • Nuggethoarder

        4 years ago

        Leake wasn’t actually that bad. He has his two best seasons (by fWAR) in STL. Over the entire deal, was worth 8.6 fWAR and paid 64 million dollars. Less than 8 million per win. Of course, he was no star. He was OK.

        2
        Reply
  13. bigdaddyt

    4 years ago

    So much for a 2 year deal

    1
    Reply
  14. MLB Top 100 Commenter

    4 years ago

    I would definitely take Stroman over Matz. But Stroman might get five years 80 million so this was a good signing by dirty birds. Anything but letting Carlos Martinez start, he needs to go back to bullpen if he wants to return to majors with any club.

    1
    Reply
    • socraticgadfly

      4 years ago

      Too low. Try 5/$100 for Stroman.

      Reply
      • MLB Top 100 Commenter

        4 years ago

        Maybe. Lemme see the new CBA and I might agree. But not that high beforehand.

        1
        Reply
        • myaccount2

          4 years ago

          New CBA or not, Stroman is getting more than $80M total.

          Reply
      • baseballpun

        4 years ago

        I guess that 4th-5th year is concerning but if you paid $31-32m a year for Matz and Stroman, that doesn’t sound too bad to me.

        Reply
        • socraticgadfly

          4 years ago

          You’re not getting Stroman for that price. Dream on.

          Reply
        • EndinStealth

          4 years ago

          That would put Stro at 21 AAV. That shouldn’t be far off the mark.

          Reply
  15. bluejays92

    4 years ago

    This split the difference of what I thought he’d get (my prediction was 4-years, $40-48mil.) Good for him for getting paid. I hope that it works out for him and St. Louis, but I’m also glad that the Jays didn’t give him this. He’s a solid enough pitcher for the back end of a rotation, but I just don’t see him as someone I’d commit that much money to.

    Reply
    • Bill M

      4 years ago

      Money, yes. But 4 years? Absolutely no

      1
      Reply
  16. Vizionaire

    4 years ago

    no huge loss for the angels!

    2
    Reply
  17. Eric D

    4 years ago

    Steven Matz at 11-12M/yr is a good deal, I was hoping the Mariners would get him. I am surprised he got 4 years, thought he was going to get 3.

    3
    Reply
  18. bygserch

    4 years ago

    Matz induces walk rates lower than most?
    As a Mets fan, seeing him pitch a lot, especially his last couple of seasons there, I feel like the EYE TEST says differently lol…
    That said, I loved Matz when he was here, even when he struggled, which sucked at the time, but I always pulled for him and expected the best….
    home town boy made good, then left, and made better by grabbing 44 mil, from one of the best teams he could possibly go to, St Louis.
    I’m sure he will flirt with an all star appearance now too, mostly because LOLMETS luck, SP was always our strength, then it was a huge weak spot last year, and now as it stands, it’s a GLARING weakness, where he could’ve really been useful!

    2
    Reply
    • socraticgadfly

      4 years ago

      MLB average is 3.3 BB/9 baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/pitch.shtml and Matz is below that. (Stroman is lower yet)

      2
      Reply
    • myaccount2

      4 years ago

      The numbers don’t care what your eye test says. His BB rate is below average, period.

      1
      Reply
    • meckert

      4 years ago

      His problem with the Mets was that he rattled easily, lost focus and then served up fat pitches. He didn’t face much as much pressure pitching in Dunedin, Buffalo or even Toronto. He may well succeed in St. Louis: first rate organization and supportive fans.

      4
      Reply
    • NMK 2

      4 years ago

      Walks and home runs, often in high-pressure situations, were Matz’ undoing while a Met. I wanted to root for a rotation of young aces, but this lefty never seemed to have the mental toughness necessary.

      I’m glad he got paid, but I’m also glad it wasn’t New York who handed him a four-year deal. Things got really rough by the end of his tenure with us.

      1
      Reply
  19. BJ Ozymandias

    4 years ago

    I wish him well; the Cards’ pitching staff will thank Pete W for the playbook

    1
    Reply
  20. angt222

    4 years ago

    Good for Matz but STL overpaid.

    7
    Reply
    • Cohens_Wallet

      4 years ago

      Agreed

      4
      Reply
  21. anotherdamncardinalfan

    4 years ago

    Matz had an ERA under 4 in the AL East. He should be half a run better pitching with Gold Glove defense, big ball park, Yadi calling the game and vs the NL Central. Should help give the Cards the pitching depth they lacked in 2021.

    4
    Reply
    • Cora the Destroya

      4 years ago

      You sure about that? He had an ERA close to 4 in the NL East and has not been anywhere close to 200 innings in a season. Could go either way but I wouldn’t be surprised if his ERA rises up around 4. He has a career FIP over 4 and that doesn’t account for defense like ERA would.

      Reply
  22. Mario93

    4 years ago

    Cardinals got a very good pitcher. He’ll be worth the contract imo. Had a great 2nd half of the season, was one of the best in the A.L. If he stays healthy I think he’ll be a steal for sure. Jays fixed him up.

    Reply
  23. Cora the Destroya

    4 years ago

    This probably works for the Cardinals bit I’m kind of happy that my Sox didn’t sign him because they need to do better.

    Reply
    • enlightened

      4 years ago

      Sadly though … I’m not sure they will.

      Reply
    • GASoxFan

      4 years ago

      They do, but will they?

      Bloom is being tight with the purse strings although we’re seeing what the market is like. Erod said he never even engaged with BOS, which means the offer was so low – he didn’t even know the number of years, said it was never discussed. Matz picks STL on a 11m/adventure. Reality is you can’t go in with an unreliable pen, a recouping sale, an unproven stretching out Whitlock (he’s hasn’t gone 3x through orders) and a stretching out Houck.

      The remaining quality options keep getting more expensive. Soon it’ll be more richards/perez types back, which….

      Reply
      • Cora the Destroya

        4 years ago

        You can’t really assume Whitlock won’t be capable to start until we see him at Spring Training.

        I do worry about the market but Matz has a good chance of not being fantastic. This past year he was solid but he still has a career FIP over 4.00. We could get much cheaper options for a similar result.

        Reply
  24. HALfromVA

    4 years ago

    The word “proclivities “ was used in this article. I like it. Good signing for the Cards.

    2
    Reply
  25. Joseph Gonzalez

    4 years ago

    The AAV is really good but considering that he has been mediocre to bad during his career he really shouldn’t get paid more than what the cards are paying

    Reply
    • stymeedone

      4 years ago

      @joe g.
      Let me explain things simply. Dodgers. Heaney. $8.5MM.
      Compare.

      Reply
      • Joseph Gonzalez

        4 years ago

        Oh no I get what you mean completely lol. The Dodgers were just dumb with that deal period

        Reply
        • dodger1958

          4 years ago

          You’re foolish Joe to say that. One year vs four years. Friedman knows infinitely more about anything baseball than you or anyone else on this site.

          Reply
        • Chief Two Hands

          4 years ago

          Yeah the Dodgers can easily afford that one year contract for some rotation insurance. To say that low risk contract is “dumb” is, well, “dumb.”

          Reply
  26. NYMetsFanatic

    4 years ago

    “Mets interested in Taylor”.. “Mets interested in Matz”.. “Mets interested in how caterpillars turn into butterflies” .. Wake up, you morons! Start signing the top talent before it’s all gone!!! We’ve got Alderson Sr, Alderson Jr and Eppler, and still not one player has been signed. My team deserves to be ridiculed forever. What a sh*tshow.

    Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      4 years ago

      @NYMetsFanatic How many teams have made big moves so far? Less than 4? Patience. Plenty of time left.

      1
      Reply
  27. bravesfan

    4 years ago

    Would have been a nice little pickup for the Braves, but I don’t see the Braves offering 44 mil. Too expensive for a guy like him (in the eyes of the Braves).

    1
    Reply
  28. jdgoat

    4 years ago

    Four years is a bit scary but at least it drive down the price.

    1
    Reply
  29. Robrock30

    4 years ago

    Congratulations Steven Matz for signing with the Cardinals. You made the right choice.
    I watched you with the Mets all those years. 2020 was a disaster and the Mets sent you in the offseason to work with Phil Regan the venerable coach and then dumped you to the Blue Jays where you improved. Best of Luck. Good that you returned to the NL as you are a good hitter. I will always remember your Grandpa.

    1
    Reply
  30. jsaldi

    4 years ago

    Adding a 4th year I bet is what got him to St Louis. Teams skeptical on long contracts for pitchers

    3
    Reply
  31. Toms Changeup

    4 years ago

    I really thought the Nats would jump on him for a solid innings guy. Congrats to to Matz on the deal

    Reply
  32. mrperkins

    4 years ago

    Hope it works out better than the last Jay lefty to sign 4 year deal with Cardinals…but pleased as a Cardinals fan. Was expecting him to be guaranteed 13-15/year despite what mlbtr was predicting–not from Cardinals, but nonetheless.

    Reply
  33. gson

    4 years ago

    Does this keep Alex Reyes/Genesis Cabrera at the back the Cardinals pen?..

    1
    Reply
    • eatonculo

      4 years ago

      Probably. Cabby isn’t going to start but Reyes might have to do something different with no sticky stuff to make him a closer.

      Reply
  34. VonPurpleHayes

    4 years ago

    Solid depth signing. I like this contract for the Cards. 4 years at 44 isn’t bad at all.

    Reply
  35. stevecohenMVP

    4 years ago

    The Mets aren’t signing anyone substantial this off-season. Also, as a Mets fan, the fans are the most volatile, damaged and ridiculous of them all. He sucked as a Met and turned his cheek to us because we traded him. Good luck and move on. “Cards overpaid.” “We didn’t want him back.” “He gets rattled.” Shut up, princesses. Mets will Mets will lolmets will Mutts will Mets. Cards did good. Plain and simple.

    Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      4 years ago

      @stevecohenMVP The Mets will certainly be making multiple substantial signings and/or trades. The offseason has barely started.

      Reply
      • dodger1958

        4 years ago

        Stevie opened about his big mouth once again calling out the agent of Matz by name as being totally unprofessional. Besides having a track record of being ethically challenged, he has, once again, screwed the pooch. Can’t see him endearing himself to other agents. Stevie is a huge issue.

        Reply
  36. Altuves Buzzer

    4 years ago

    Wondering if he wanted St. Louis or the contract…Toronto had room for this contract…hope it gets leaked what they offered him.

    11 per for a solid 5 inning pitcher every 5 days is going rate

    Don’t kid yourself though…this year was his ceiling…and that’s ok. Years 3 and 4 will be someone else’s problem most likely anyway.

    Reply
    • jdgoat

      4 years ago

      I think I saw Morosi tweet that they offered three years. Not going to lie, I’m not too upset that they missed out on him if it would’ve meant this much of a commitment. As good as he was last year, he was still incredibly streaky.

      1
      Reply
      • Dustyslambchops23

        4 years ago

        Only thing I worry about is if they lose out on a few more FA arms will they end up overpaying in prospects vs money.

        Reply
  37. Tom Price

    4 years ago

    Matz, as an mlb pitcher, is absolute garbage.

    1
    Reply
    • Appalachian_Outlaw

      4 years ago

      That’s a… viewpoint, I guess. I’d disagree, though. He’s been more good than bad. I’d hardly call him garbage.

      1
      Reply
    • stevecohenMVP

      4 years ago

      He’s in the major leagues with a positive war. He’s not garbage. Your right to an opinion is valid. However, the opinion is garbage in its own right.

      2
      Reply
  38. Franco27

    4 years ago

    Definitely over paid for a back of the rotation pitcher. So many teams desperate for pitching.

    1
    Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      4 years ago

      I don’t see how 4 years at 44M is an overpay,

      1
      Reply
  39. Bounty Hunters IA

    4 years ago

    Gross overpay. Mike Leake 2.0. Another blunder by a trash organization. I wonder what teams database they hacked to get their info on Matz?

    Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      4 years ago

      11M a year for a solid backend starter is not an overpay in any world.

      1
      Reply
  40. Dustyslambchops23

    4 years ago

    Good price honestly, at 11 mil he doesn’t need to be anything he’s not.

    There were stretches last year where he did flash the ability to be something more than he’s historically been. Sometimes lefty’s don’t ‘get it’ until later on in their career.

    Good signing and good luck!

    3
    Reply
    • mlbnyyfan

      4 years ago

      Matz probably didn’t want to go back to NY because both teams could of paid more for him.

      Reply
  41. Robrock30

    4 years ago

    LOL METS

    Jon Heyman
    @JonHeyman
    Mets GM Billy Eppler told Matz’s agent Rob Martin he was upset. Mets thought they’d have a final chance and didn’t get it. Word from Matz camp is he had a late change of heart,

    Steven Cohen
    @StevenACohen2
    I’m not happy this morning . I’ve never seen such unprofessional behavior exhibited by a player’s agent.I guess words and promises don’t matter.

    One year ago you ran him out of Town. Payback!

    Reply
    • jdgoat

      4 years ago

      Players don’t want to sign with a travelling clown show. So shocking to Steve

      4
      Reply
    • Appalachian_Outlaw

      4 years ago

      Cohen should maybe spend some of his money on some tissues.

      Matz earned the right to be a free agent, and the dude owes them nothing. He can play where he wants.

      That’s another bad look for the Mets, though. If you’re a Major Free Agent, do you really want to negotiate with a club where the owner may go on a Social Media rant if you decide you don’t want to play in NY?

      I’d say Matz made the right choice.

      3
      Reply
      • Robrock30

        4 years ago

        Steve Cohen gets played one more time. Though this one isn’t on par with the Lindor act which was legendary. Cohen is just blowing up over leaking that he was about to sign Matz Hometown Guy and then it blows up overnight on him. A really bad look here LOL Mets.

        Happy Thanksgiving Turkey!

        2
        Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      4 years ago

      Steve Cohen definitely does more harm than good on Twitter.

      2
      Reply
      • iverbure

        4 years ago

        That’s the biggest reason for all the top executives avoiding the Mets like the plague in my opinion. Nobody smart wants to be undermined by the owner and made to sign over the hill guys. Eppler is used to it. So great fit for him.

        1
        Reply
    • Samuel

      4 years ago

      From Steven Cohen:

      “I’ve never seen such unprofessional behavior exhibited by a player’s agent.”

      And he’s been at this almost a whole year!

      LOL

      MLB is as cutthroat as his other businesses.

      The guy thinks he’s going to waltz in, drop a bunch of money, and everyone will dance to his tune. The man is the epitome of a NYC sports fan. They just don’t get it.

      1
      Reply
    • JoeBrady

      4 years ago

      Robrock30
      LOL METS
      =================================
      I thought you were kidding. That’s a bad look.

      Reply
      • Robrock30

        4 years ago

        Joe Brady,

        Steven Matz has proven himself to be a quality young man genuinely involved in charitable endeavors. The Cardinals are a first rate organization and he is a first rate guy. It is a good fit where he should thrive. I wish him the Best!

        Reply
  42. msqboxer

    4 years ago

    Great signing for STL who needed to get the fan base engaged again and get someone for the 3 year window they have with Goldy and Arenado. I think it’s a fair AV only potential downside is the fourth year, but probably had to be done to sign him.

    1
    Reply
  43. Joeypower

    4 years ago

    For that price?! No thanks!!

    1
    Reply
    • bighiggy

      4 years ago

      He only has to put up 5 war total in 4 seasons to be worth 44 mil. He’s a grounball machine with homer issues going to a bigger ballpark with baseballs best defense. I’m thinking he will definately be worth the contract. Will he win a Cy young, no. Will he outproduce 5 war in 4 seasons, I’d bet on it. The gamble here is very low. They paid carp and Martinez 34 mil last year for negative value. I bet matz will put up at least 2war next year alone

      2
      Reply
      • Bluejay4life

        4 years ago

        I think your right. Plus with the bluejays he was great for the las 4 months of the season. Hate to see him go really

        Reply
  44. WillDS

    4 years ago

    Jays fan here, I am relieved. Didn’t want him back at the likely salary he gets. He had a solid enough year. But he is a #5 starter who got lucky last year imo. He doesn’t have a pitch that misses bats and it shows in his pitch counts.

    4
    Reply
    • HBan22

      4 years ago

      I think the Jays are really prioritizing Robbie Ray, which in my opinion they should be. If I was the Jays I would be trying to re-sign Ray, add one more good reliever, and bring in a solid infielder who can play multiple positions like Eduardo Escobar. I think they’d be able to call that a very successful off-season.

      1
      Reply
  45. CKinSTL

    4 years ago

    I was really hoping they would land Scherzer.. it would be great to see him come home to St Louis before his amazing career is over.

    2
    Reply
  46. bryce1344

    4 years ago

    Over pay and typical of Mo a year too long contract. Should have just re-sign Lester for a year. Not much difference in production.

    Reply
  47. spudchukar

    4 years ago

    Cards are now set, except a lockdown lefty reliever and a left-handed back-up catcher. Nootbar and Rondon DH’s if the league goes that route. With Liberator and Zack Thompson knocking on the door if needed.

    1
    Reply
    • spudchukar

      4 years ago

      With Juan Yepez and Nolan Gorman ready to accompany a Big League spot when injuries force a call. With the Reds, Pirates, and Cubs all rebuilding only the Brewers stand in their way. Should be an exciting few years in the Gateway city.

      2
      Reply
  48. Tdat1979

    4 years ago

    11 million is pretty much the going rate for a #4 starter. I think the Cardinals get someone who will pitch 140-160 innings with a 4.00 ERA. But wouldn’t be surprised if this turns into a disaster for the Cardinals.

    Reply
    • Nuggethoarder

      4 years ago

      Eh, it’s 11 million dollars. Even if he only pitches one season and his arm implodes, they can weather it. Just look at how much they paid Brett Cecil, Gregg Holland, and Andrew Miller in the last few years…

      1
      Reply
  49. JerryBird

    4 years ago

    This is an encouraging sign. I realize that Matz level of success is kind of limited, but he could well very be the one to fill in the Cardinals rotation and push them past Milwaukee. I certainly hope so. Welcome to St. Louis, Mr. Matz.

    2
    Reply
  50. Rsox

    4 years ago

    I would have liked Matz on the Sox but not at 4 years. Good for him though and good for the Cardinals

    Reply
  51. neo

    4 years ago

    I expect Matz took the larger guarantee with years because he doesn’t have great confidence that he will sustain production to keep in a rotation for next few years.

    Which any pitcher must consider, with the threat of injury and age sapping your athletic ability, as the end draws nearer no matter who you are with each passing year.

    He may surprise himself though.

    1
    Reply
  52. jim stem

    4 years ago

    So basically just ignore the 6.00 era and 9.00 era if you want to sell him.

    When his head is straight, he can help his team. When he’s overthinking or lacking confidence, he’s shelled. It’s kind of all or nothing with him and it’s pretty obvious before he takes the mound which result you can expect. If the Cardinals coaches and catchers can pompom and RA RA him into believing he’s going to be good, he can be effective. He just needs to find that inner winner. Hope he finds it consistently because he seemed like a good kid with the Mets.

    1
    Reply
  53. Tacoshells

    4 years ago

    More than I thought he would get. Glad the giants didn’t pay that. Good for player though

    Reply
  54. Robrock30

    4 years ago

    Billy Eppler is now 0 for 1 in negotiating and being played by an agent.

    He thought he had a layup on the Hometown Guy in Matz and was mislead.

    Reply
    • Rsox

      4 years ago

      Considering the Mets have gone 0-14 (at least) in trying to find a PoBO thats pretty much par for the course…

      Reply
  55. canajay12

    4 years ago

    Congrats to the cards. Hopefully he figured something out while with the Jays and goes on to have a nice run for you guys. 11 per seems very reasonable for a guy who’s likely going to pitch to an upper 3’s ERA over the course of the contract.

    Reply
    • seaver41

      4 years ago

      he did – he went and hid in TOR and now he can hide in STL with the player coddling fanbase. Guy is milk toast soft. AMF

      Reply
      • swinging wood

        4 years ago

        Speaking of milk toast soft, did you see Cohen’s tweets this morning?

        3
        Reply
      • KamKid

        4 years ago

        The AL east isn’t exactly the division pitchers go to hide.

        3
        Reply
  56. njbirdsfan

    4 years ago

    Lulz at the Cardinals fans. They can’t keep their story straight (like every red stater) for two minutes.

    First Matz is Mets Queens trash, now you’re kidding his butt. Make up your minds.

    Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      4 years ago

      In my experience, butts never laugh at my jokes.

      2
      Reply
      • hyraxwithaflamethrower

        4 years ago

        VPH, but if they did and laughed their a**es off, would they disappear?

        1
        Reply
    • hollidayfever

      4 years ago

      TF are you even talking about? He just signed. Most of the cards fans like the signing. I’m fine with it, but I thought they needed 2 starters to begin with, so it’d be nice to be able to also snag Stroman.

      1
      Reply
    • Dunedin020306

      4 years ago

      @njbirdsfan – “They can’t keep their story straight (like every red stater) for two minutes.”?

      If you actually believe such ignorant drivel than you are a poster child for the delusional and irrational nature of Leftists and Progressive Liberalism.

      2
      Reply
  57. Chemo850

    4 years ago

    Mets take another L and Cohen takes to twitter to cry about it again hahaha. God I love the Mets.

    2
    Reply
  58. Champs64

    4 years ago

    Did not expect this signing. I think he can have some success here. We needed a lefty in the rotation and this signing may prevent pushing a reliever into the group. Never have enough pitching. Welcome to the Cardinals Steven.

    2
    Reply
  59. hyraxwithaflamethrower

    4 years ago

    A slight overpay, but not too much of one. Not like the premium the Dodgers paid for Heaney.

    Reply
  60. Camden453

    4 years ago

    Massive overpay. Do people not even watch Matz?

    He’ll be going good for 4 innings and then totally implode

    And it’s not just the mental aspect. His stuff has always been pretty hittable

    If he gets into a rhythm and becomes the ground ball machine, ok. But he doesn’t. He starts thinking in the 4th inning he’s doing pretty good today and then by the end of the 5th he just gave up two home runs and 5 runs

    He did the same thing with Toronto too. “Wow, it’s the 5th inning. I’m pitching a shutout.” Then a couple walks and a three run homer and he’s out of the game

    That won’t change

    1
    Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      4 years ago

      11M AAV is not all that much. The 4 year commitment is what some people are balking at. But in no world is this a massive overpay.

      2
      Reply
      • Camden453

        4 years ago

        Ok. If he’s got a 6 ERA next July you’ll know what I mean

        Reply
    • Appalachian_Outlaw

      4 years ago

      Cool story, but facts and stats don’t really support what you’re saying. In 2021 he only gave up 5 or more runs four times. If you don’t believe me, check the game logs- It’s right there.

      2
      Reply
      • 5toolMVP

        4 years ago

        2021 game log shows 7 out of 29 starts he didn’t get through the 5th inning.

        1
        Reply
        • bhambrave

          4 years ago

          I wonder what the MLB average is for that?

          1
          Reply
  61. Camden453

    4 years ago

    And on Cohens end, why is he going after Matz? He was a miserable nervous wreck on the Mets

    Why would you bring that back for 4 years?

    1
    Reply
    • iverbure

      4 years ago

      Because he’s a stupid fan with money. Cohen running his team is what a fan on here would run it if they had access to billions. They all think that just spending money is the answer to winning and we will see how these idiots will fare. It’s already been a epic disaster.

      2
      Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      4 years ago

      Because the Mets need quality backend pitching. Matz is likely a better option than Peterson, Megill and even Carrasco. Mets rotation needs more than 1 acquisition this offseason IMO.

      1
      Reply
  62. Camden453

    4 years ago

    I checked in on a Matz start last year. It’s the 4th inning and he’s pitching a shutout. So he gets to the 5th, gets the first batter out. Then typical Matz. He can’t find the plate. Walks, hits, home runs and he never records another out

    Reply
    • JFactor

      4 years ago

      Interestingly enough, Matz has zero starts last year where that line happens. Are you sure that’s what happened or are delivering on the narrative you posted above?

      2
      Reply
      • Camden453

        4 years ago

        Positive. I was even saying, ok here we go. He just got the 1st out of the inning. Here’s where he implodes

        Sure enough he walks the next batter. Then a single and HR. Then he’s out of the game

        Happens consistently with Matz

        Reply
        • bhambrave

          4 years ago

          Which game did this happen in? Did it happen in more than one? You say it happens consistently.

          1
          Reply
        • Camden453

          4 years ago

          The bottom line is as a rhythm pitcher any pitch, any single, an error, a blown strike call, can cause Matz to lose his rhythm.

          Then he gives up 4 straight hits and he’s out of the game

          The fans, the defense, is on pins and needles with him

          Reply
      • Camden453

        4 years ago

        May 30th vs the Indians. He’s up 4-0 headed into the 6th. He’s winning the game

        E-double-single-single-single

        Gives up 4 runs and it’s 4-4 and he’s out of the game

        And there’s many other examples

        Reply
        • bhambrave

          4 years ago

          You said it was in the 5th inning. Now it’s in the 6th. What other parts of the story do you want to change?

          3
          Reply
        • Appalachian_Outlaw

          4 years ago

          So Espinal made an error to start that inning- which isn’t Matz’s fault. Matz did give up a double, but the runner that scored there wouldn’t have even been on base without the error… then there was a single.

          However, Tyler Chatwood then came into pitch. So Matz didn’t even give up those last two hits you’re trying to pin on him.

          2
          Reply
        • Camden453

          4 years ago

          Ok, Chatwood gave up two of them. But I’ve seen it many times over the years

          He’s in a great flow, he’s mowing them down, but there’s an error, and then the meltdown. Or he just realizes there’s 1 out in the 5th and he’s pitching a shutout. Then the walks come. HRs.

          And it’s not really that he’s a choker, it’s just that he’s a rhythm guy. At any point something can get him out of rhythm

          Cardinals fans will see and I think by that 4th year it’s going to be pretty miserable for Cards fans

          Reply
        • bhambrave

          4 years ago

          Man, those goalposts sure seem to be moving around a lot.

          3
          Reply
        • Appalachian_Outlaw

          4 years ago

          I haven’t gone through his entire game log for his career, mind you- but last year’s numbers don’t really support what you’re saying. At a time years ago, maybe, I don’t know- but I like to look at recent stuff because pitchers mature.

          To a larger point though, there are a lot of #3 and #4 starters that will have bad nights- that’s why they’re mid-rotation arms. Aces are the guys that are supposed to rise above errors, not having their stuff and/or being thrown off rythym.

          I don’t think anyone is saying Matz is an ace. He’s a quality #3 or an excellent #4 on a good staff.

          2
          Reply
        • bhambrave

          4 years ago

          Plus, he’s a lefty in a staff of right-handers.

          1
          Reply
    • Appalachian_Outlaw

      4 years ago

      Just one? Man, you like small sample sizes.

      2
      Reply
      • Camden453

        4 years ago

        Ask any Mets fan. Or Jays fan

        Reply
  63. jimmertee

    4 years ago

    Great contract for Matz. Kudos to his agent and wise for not going back to NY.

    Of the 4 years, the Cards will probably get 2 1/2 okay years out of him, the trouble is it will be a spread out 2 1/2 years.

    Good luck to him. A chameleon pitcher.

    Reply
  64. soxfan1

    4 years ago

    No mention of the Cohen comments?

    Reply
    • Milwaukee-2208

      4 years ago

      Cohen is nothing more than a loudmouth bully who thinks he can buy his way to a title. Nobody wants to play for this trash organization and Matz /Thor proved that to be a fact

      1
      Reply
  65. bhambrave

    4 years ago

    To be fair, Cohen was ragging on the agent, not the player. John Scheurholtz did the same thing when Rafael Furcal left to go to L.A. Sometimes agents and G.M.’s have a handshake agreement and the agent reneges on it. It was illustrated in Moneyball when Scott Boras did it to Billy Beane.

    Reply
    • Camden453

      4 years ago

      But if you’re Cohen, why would you think Matz would sign with you after 6 miserable years in your organization

      It’s not a logical course of action

      1
      Reply
      • bhambrave

        4 years ago

        If the agent said he would, then he might think that. We don’t know.

        Reply
      • Cosmo2

        4 years ago

        Matz was in no way miserable in his time in NY. You are making this up to fit a bogus LOL Mets narrative. Players like playing for the team.

        Reply
    • LordD99

      4 years ago

      The education of Steve Cohen continues.

      1
      Reply
    • Deleted_User

      4 years ago

      A handshake agreement plus a quarter is worth 25 cents.

      1
      Reply
  66. Camden453

    4 years ago

    Mets fans are already sick of Matz in NY and both Cohen and Eppler are trying to get him back in for 4 years

    It’s going to be a long 5 years with Eppler if Matz was one of his targets

    If he goes out and gets Marte then I know they’re doomed with Eppler

    Reply
    • bhambrave

      4 years ago

      Maybe they didn’t offer 4 years? Maybe that’s why he didn’t sign with the Mets?

      Reply
      • Camden453

        4 years ago

        They didn’t give them a chance to match the offer from the Cardinals

        Reply
        • bhambrave

          4 years ago

          So they did or didn’t offer four years? Make up your mind.

          1
          Reply
  67. LebronHatesAsians

    4 years ago

    Meet the Metsssss, the same ole’ Metsssss, the Mets are gonna Met like their name is the Mets!!!!!

    Been singing this in my head all day.

    Reply
  68. Mario93

    4 years ago

    He’s a solid rotation arm. Cardinals are a great organization, he’ll continue to be productive. Went to a great place imo… where do the blue Jays go from here.. hmmm. I thought they’d settle on Matz and let Ray walk. I truly wonder where they go from here.

    Reply
    • Mario93

      4 years ago

      Jays gave a 4yr deal to Ryu as a 33 year old.. Rumors are they were only willing to give Matz a 3 year deal. What is Matz 31? I think I may have given him that 4th year. Even though that 4th year we would’ve seen a definite decline most likely.. Matz will surely give 2 more years of winning baseball imo. Jays are in winning mode.

      11 avv isn’t much if that’s the exact number. I think cardinals will be happy with Matz. For 2-3 years, Matz will certainly give the Cardinals what they paid for. Maybe even that 4th year. Like this signing a lot for them.

      1
      Reply
  69. MarlinsFanBase

    4 years ago

    Truly surprising. One of figured that a NY guy like Matz would’ve returned to the Mets since the narrative we always hear is that “everyone wants to play in NY”, so why not a NY guy; and also Matz could return to being labeled an “Ace” by the Mets PR Machine.

    I guess a lot of people need to rethink their statements.

    3
    Reply
    • Rsox

      4 years ago

      Matz has tasted the double edged sword of playing in New York. Pitch well and they love you, pitch poorly and they try to run you out of town. In St.Louis they love you know matter what so probably not a bad place to go be a 4th or 5th starter

      2
      Reply
    • RobM

      4 years ago

      They want to play in New York for the other baseball team in town.

      1
      Reply
  70. Devlsh

    4 years ago

    One thing is for sure: The Mets NEEDED Matz more than the Cardinals. I think Matz is a mediocre starter with some limited upside, and is unlikely to represent an improvement over what they got from Kim/Lester last year (not that I wanted those guys resigned either). Then again, he’s a lefty and deepens a Cardinal staff that already includes Wainwright, Flaherty, Mikolas, Hudson and several depth options (Reyes, Hicks, Woodford, Oviedo, Liberatore, Thompson, etc.). Ultimately, the team is probably a little better with him on the roster than not.

    I’m not a big Matz fan, but also wasn’t overly excited about the other options on this year’s market and the cost associated with each.

    I place the over/under for Matz innings pitched as a Cardinal over the four years (regular season) at 440.

    Reply
  71. Pete'sView

    4 years ago

    Come mid-season, Cardinal fans will not be happy. Matz is, at best, a #5, and not a terribly talent one at that. Four years and $44M is an overpay.

    Reply
    • Pete'sView

      4 years ago

      And let me add, that I’m thankful to St. Louis for saving my Giants from a big mistake.

      Reply
    • User 2079935927

      4 years ago

      Is that #5 on Early 90’s Braves team? Or a #5 on a 2021 Texas Rangers Team?

      Reply
  72. mkeyankee

    4 years ago

    Would be competing with Lauer for #5 brewers starter and would, most likely, lose that competition. Good pick-up for stl though they needed pitching depth. Looking forward to 2022 season.

    Reply
  73. Jmrinaz

    4 years ago

    Welcome to baseball Heaven, Steven. Please don’t Brett Cecil us

    1
    Reply
  74. User 2079935927

    4 years ago

    As a Angels Fan I could take him or leave. No use crying over something you never had.

    Reply
  75. Chemo850

    4 years ago

    The market is shaping up right now for pitching and it’s becoming pretty apparent both the Dodgers and Tigers overpaid big time. I personally don’t see that much of a difference between E-Rod and some of these other guys who have been signed this week. And if there is a differences it’s rather marginal

    Reply
  76. deadthings

    4 years ago

    That’s a good contract. As a Jays fan, I’m sad to see him go generally, but even sadder to see him go for a reasonable term and rate. Thanks for donning the powder blue Steven, best of luck in St. Loo!

    1
    Reply

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