The Padres and Cubs were in talks last summer about a trade that would have sent first baseman Eric Hosmer “and a highly regarded prospect” to Chicago, The Athletic’s Sahadev Sharma reports. The return on the Cubs’ end wasn’t mentioned, yet it likely could have been pretty minimal (i.e. a low-level prospect or a player to be named later), since the chief goal of the trade for San Diego would have been to get Hosmer’s contract off the books. However, since Anthony Rizzo also reportedly on the Padres’ trade radar, it is possible the two teams might have been discussing a swap of first basemen.
Hosmer was known to be available prior to the trade deadline, as the Padres were exploring ways to both lessen their luxury tax burdens in 2021 and in the future, and also create payroll space for some bigger-ticket additions. As it turned out, San Diego didn’t find a taker for Hosmer, and they also fell short of landing such targets as Rizzo, Max Scherzer and Jose Berrios prior to the deadline. While the Padres did acquire the likes of Adam Frazier and Daniel Hudson, that wasn’t enough to hold off a late-season collapse, as the Friars plummeted to a 79-83 record.
As well, the Padres also ended up exceeding the luxury tax threshold for the first time in club history. While final figures haven’t yet been released (and estimates from both Cot’s Baseball Contracts and Roster Resource actually had the Padres falling a bit short of the tax line), the expectation is that San Diego’s Competitive Balance Tax number did indeed top the $210MM mark. The penalty for a first-time payor is only a 20 percent surcharge on the overage, so since the Padres didn’t exceed the threshold by too much, their financial cost will be quite minimal. For instance, if they exceeded the CBT line by $2MM, the team would have a $400K tax bill.
Since the Padres are already projected to sit very close to the $210MM mark for their 2022 expenditures, a further penalty could be difficult to avoid, with the obvious caveat that the CBT system could be altered under the new collective bargaining agreement. In the short term, however, exceeding the luxury tax line has already caused some difficulties for the Padres’ offseason business. They would have to give up two 2022 draft picks (their second-highest and fifth-highest selections) and $1MM of international draft pool money in order to sign a free agent who rejected a qualifying offer, and San Diego has already reportedly shown interest in one such QO free agent in Nick Castellanos.
Assuming some form of the luxury tax continues to exist in the next CBA, even at a much higher threshold, the Padres would probably prefer to rid themselves of Hosmer’s contract just to lessen their chances of a repeater penalty. Hosmer has a tax number of $18MM per season (the average annual value of his eight-year, $144MM deal), even though his actual salary figures will drop on the back end of his deal. Hosmer has $59MM owed to him through the 2025 campaign, breaking down as $20MM in 2022, and then $13MM salaries in each of the 2023-25 seasons.
This contract wouldn’t be a problem if Hosmer was still hitting, and yet the veteran has batted only .264/.323/.415 (99 wRC+, 102 OPS+) over his four seasons in San Diego. Other than a strong performance over 156 plate appearances in the shortened 2020 season, Hosmer has been barely a replacement-level player with the Padres, and he may not even be a regular starting option going forward considering that his playing time was reduced amidst his struggles.
The Cubs were primarily focused on selling back in July, unloading such veteran talents as Rizzo, Kris Bryant, Javier Baez, Craig Kimbrel, Joc Pederson, and others. Plus, the Cubs got a jump on the salary cuts almost a year ago in another major deal with the Padres, as Yu Darvish was dealt to San Diego. All of these moves greatly reduced Chicago’s future salary commitments, and yet the recent acquisitions of Marcus Stroman and Wade Miley indicate that the Cubs aren’t planning a full rebuild. Despite Hosmer’s lack of recent production, the Cubs could see him as a change-of-scenery candidate, or possibly as a left-handed complement to Frank Schwindel for first base (and maybe DH) duties.
The real prize for Chicago would still be whatever prospect or prospects the Padres were to include in a Hosmer trade. While San Diego still has a strong farm system, their minor league depth has been sapped to some extent due to other deals, and some prospects that have now graduated to larger roles on the big league roster. In talks with the Rangers about a trade involving Hosmer and Joey Gallo last July, Padres outfield prospect Robert Hassell III was reportedly floated as a candidate to change teams, though it isn’t known if the Cubs would also be targeting Hassell.
It is worth noting that Hosmer himself also has some leverage in the form of a ten-team no-trade clause. The Cubs weren’t one of the ten teams on Hosmer’s 2021 list, and yet since he can change that list every year, he could very well adjust his no-trade protection to include the Cubs, Rangers, or any other club Hosmer suspects could be a potential trade partner. This doesn’t mean that Hosmer wouldn’t necessarily welcome a move away from the Padres, but he would at least give himself some measure of control over his future. Hosmer also gains full no-trade rights as a 10-and-5 player following the 2022 season, so this is the last year for the Padres to move Hosmer even somewhat freely.
ChiSox_Fan
Why is this article relevant?
lucas0622
If you don’t think it’s relevant you don’t gotta read it
ChiSox_Fan
People who live in the past, have no future!
Chipper Jones' illegitimate kid
People who hate in a comment thread, have no present.
SDHotDawg
@Chisox …. People who ignore the past walk blindly into the future.
SoCalBrave
@Chisox people who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.
Catuli Carl
LOL you just see the word “Cubs” and absolutely must post a negative comment no matter how dumb or asinine it is. You just can’t help yourself.
And your justification for crapping on a story about a fascinating trade that almost happened is “uR LiViNg iN tHe pAsT!!” lol
ChiSox_Fan
Forrest’s mama alway said…
You gotta put the past behind you so you can move along!!
Let’s stay current with the rumors!
blockheag36
People care about the Varsity team in Chicago. It’s understandable you would not know that…
nsmith12641
Facts
Tcsbaseball
@chisox, what part of there’s a lockout going on do you not get? There’s no major league activity going on right now, what else do they have to report on?
i like al conin
C’mon ChiSox_Fan, you’re just looking to stir the pot here.
johnrealtime
Its called trolling and I wish the mlbtr app allowed muting
ChiSox_Fan
Mute works for me, Johnny, on the web!
Adios!!
bbatardo
Maybe because the site is called MLB Trade Rumors?
MLB Top 100 Commenter
This is interesting and relevant to me as a Cubs’ fan. The question is why did a source only tell this to the Athletic reporter now? Maybe because the idea is no longer on the table?
Pads Fans
The idea was never on the table other than in the heads of some Chicago area bloggers. The owner and the GM of the Padres said publicly in separate interviews that none of the Padres top 5 prospects were on the trading block last summer regardless of who the Padres were trading away or for. That puts a huge kibosh on moving Hassell. The Cubs fans WISH they could get a promising prospect like Hassell, but its not happening even if they take on 100% of Hosmer’s salary.
Deleted Userr
Also puts a huge kibosh on moving Hosmer then.
Deleted_User
That’s weird because they traded away their fifth ranked prospect for Adam Frazier.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
The only likely way to trade Hosmer is to either pay all of his salary except for a tiny bit above the league minimum, or to attach a top prospect to the deal.
With Myers, maybe they could attach multiple lesser prospects, but frankly, even he might require one of the top prospects to move.
Ry.the.Stunner
Why are you and your redheaded stepchild of Chicago team relevant?
MLB Top 100 Commenter
“Plenty of people care about the Cubs and Padres.”
This is what you (Ry,the) wrote just a few messages further down.
LordD99
The article is written for baseball fans, not trolls.
2001morecowbell2001
Because this is a website that shares Major League Baseball (MLB) trade rumors and other baseball related fun.
astick
Dude. I was just going to say how much I appreciated these articles. Instead, I’m wasting my time defending the article to you. Would you rather read the stimulating and uplifting world news. This is a great break from the world.
JoeBrady
Why is this article relevant?
============================
You remind me of those people that sign onto a news website, look for the entertainment section, look for an article about someone they either don’t know or don’t care about, and then post ‘why is this relevant?’.
So let me help you out. There won’t be any more major league transactions until the CBA is finalized. Virtually everything you read in here will not be relevant. Don’t bother signing in if you are looking for something relevant.
Cubswin2019
We are in a lockout and anything baseball related is content to feed the diehards.
tstats
You’re worse than MetsFan22
Yankee-4-Lifer 75
I don’t care where Hosmer or Myers go seriously. Just please keep them as far away from the Yankees as possible, thank you!
Pads Fans
Yankees need a left handed bat at 1B. lol
anthonyd4412
It’s actually very relevant. The Cubs are in a great financial position to take on this contract and add another high end prospect.
Yankee-4-Lifer 75
@anthony4412- oh please not another bad contract! My NL team is the Cubs. How bout German, Chad Green, and Gary Sanchez for Willson Contreras? Please let me know. Seems like a good trade for both teams. Congratulations getting Clint Frazier. If he is healthy he will definitely perform.
tstats
Over pay for Yankees
Yankee-4-Lifer 75
@tstats- how so? The knock on Sanchez is his defense. Contreras is as solid as you get. There’s no reason why Willson couldn’t be the Yankees #1 catcher. Sanchez needs a change of scenery, and Green can close for the Cubs. German could be a rotation piece for Chicago. Definitely seems worth it for both teams.
Mikel Grady
I agree write news when cubs take rodon away from white Sox
angt222
I figured it would be something like Hosmer for Heyward with money and prospects going back and forth yada yada.
soft_rebuild
No, Padres had no intention of taking on salary. And no way would a premium prospect have been involved. On the plus side, at least we won a World Series with Heyward’s bad contract!
Pads Fans
That would be a good deal for both sides. Cubs could add in the $5 million difference in AAV salaries. Padres add in a low level prospect like Ornelas or Ruiz that once showed promise. .
DodgerOK
I considered trading my car in last season. No one cares about that, either.
mattwild1
if this was CarTradeRumors, then maybe so.
Ry.the.Stunner
No one cares about that because no one cares about you.
Plenty of people care about the Cubs and Padres.
LordD99
What kind of car?
Rangers29
Jesus Christ, y’all are rude.
It’s a rumor. This is MLB Trade Rumors.
nukeg
Yep, and it’s much easier to talk baseball (that’s why we’re on here right?) when it’s about players we know and teams we follow.
I’d much prefer reading about this potential swap than Paul Nobodycares just signed with the KBO Donkeyhairs.
Texas Outlaw
Id follow a team called DonkeyHairs.
gravel
And I’d be interested in the international baseball exploits of Paul Nobodycares.
Not a clever name
Yeah so would I, and all 21 Pirates Fans.
nukeg
OMG I think I just stumbled on a million dollar Netflix series. Merry Christmas to me. And to the Nobodycares family.
Bart Harley Jarvis
Range,
The word is spelled ‘yous’.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Hard pass on Hosmer. Maybe in his KC days. I’ll take my chances with Frank Schwindel.
Shane Newbanks 2
That wasn’t the point of the deal though. Teams that were looking to deal this deal (including the Cubs), wanted the highly regarded prospect (most likely Hassell) and would have been willing to take on Hosmers contract to get that deal done. Sounds like SD wasn’t in favor of dealing Hassell though.
KCMOWHOA
It’s crazy because the Royals used to have Frank the Tank too but we never gave him a real shot.
beyou02215
It’s water under the bridge now, but it still amazes me that virtually everyone could see that signing Hosmer to that deal was a bad idea, except the Padres. And now he is a huge albatross around their necks.
justacubsfan
Pretty much. Pretty sure hosmer didn’t even realize he was getting that much. It was probably a miss click by the padres.
darkstar61
They were buying his “leadership”
For whatever reason both SD and KC talked themselves into believing that what their then rebuilding teams needed was his leadership around the youngsters, no matter how bad the contract would be. So the two went into a bidding war with just eachother, pushing his contract into absurd territory
Ironically the Padres seem to have gotten impatient, giving up on the rebuild and instead trading most of the prospects to fill the team with big name vets for their push
I’m guessing the Royals have also since soured on the idea of needing Hosmer’s leadership. Otherwise one would assume SD had an ideal unloading spot now
Samuel
@ darkstar61;
Leadership only works when the people in charge support it.
Preller has been kissing the rear ends of his flamboyant players, making excuse for them, and undermining his mangers and coaches for years now. The new majority owner understands that and has taken steps to reconcile the problem.
Stay tuned.
SDHotDawg
The other side of the “leadership” coin came into play when it became known the Pads were actively trying to dump Hosmer. When a popular player in the clubhouse becomes angry or disgruntled, that popularity (or “leadership”) can quickly poison the well. Based on reported player quotes, it seems like that’s what may have happened, and could have been a major contributing factor in the second-half offensive collapse.
Billy Baroo
@Samuel
Funny, I seem to recall a fair number of sergeants who kept leading even under subpar or inexperienced officers. They didn’t quit leading because a lieutenant or a captain or a major was a doof.
Seidler only took the formal majority owner title in 2020, but he’s been the top dog since Preller’s first day on the job. The ownership group was content to let Fowler be their public face. Nothing that happened since Preller’s hiring was done without Seidler knowing and, when needed, approving.
Preller’s problems have nothing to do with “making excuses for flamboyant players.” He seems to lack impulse control at times, especially when it comes to Former Rangers, and you wouldn’t want him to negotiate the purchase of a used Chevy Cavalier, let alone a free agent contract.
Hosmer was an unproductive Padre before any “flamboyant” players joined the team. Those “flamboyant” players produced more in a couple months than Hosmer in his entire SD career. His biggest contribution to the team’s success may end up being that he lobbied Preller and Green to keep Tatis on the roster to start 2019.
Samuel
@ Billy Baroo;
Not a big disagreement. You make some good points.
1. There has been a noticeable change in the way the Padres are dealing with Preller since Seidler became majority owner.
2. I’ve managed – and led – people, and have taken direction from people. I can tell you straight out that when someone is trying to do something and the person above them is letting the people below them know that they can ignore him/her…..then that’s what happens. Heck, kids learn that by the 3rd grade watching and testing teachers.
3. Playing winning team baseball is not about individual stats. It’s about getting with the program. The Padres don’t have one. They have no idea how to win. I love Dayton Moore because his teams perform better as a whole then the sum of the parts – once he gets the players in-line and experienced. The Padres (as most posting here) think that if they have good stats then they win. No.
I’m not in the Padres clubhouse. I don’t know specifically what went on. But the fact is that the team has been out of control for years. Schurzer blocked any trade to them at the deadline. I firmly believe that players in MLB know the situation the same way that people in my business know what’s going on in different installations.
Billy Baroo
Whatever Seidler’s official title was, he was the prime member of the ownership group long before he bought out Fowler. The buck stopped with him when Preller:
* signed Hosmer
* signed Machado
* kept Tatis on the roster
* fired Green
* traded madly in summer 2020
ABOUT HERE SEIDLER OFFICIALLY BECOMES MAJORITY OWNER
* traded for Musgrove, Snell, Darvish
* signed Profar, of all the replaceable players in the world, to a 3 year extension with PLAYER OPTIONS.
* signed Tatis to a huge extension
* fired Tingler
What do you see as being any different before and after? Preller didn’t make any significant in-season trades in 2021 because he’d gutted the farm, not because Seidler was sitting on him.
Did Scherzer block a trade to SD, or did Washington get a better offer from LA? I haven’t seen a report of blocking, which may just mean I haven’t read it. This story, for example, doesn’t mention it: nbcsports.com/washington/nationals/why-dodgers-max…
Someone else on this thread already pointed out Moore’s record. He’s been the GM in KC since 2006. Three outright winning seasons, one dead-on .500, lots of years in the low 400 winning percentage. They didn’t have a winning record until 2013.
Teams with the best stats DO win. That’s simply a fact. The problem with the Padres, under Preller, is that too few players have produced good stats. One of the players who has most egregiously failed to produce good stats is named Eric Hosmer.
Deleted_User
BuT mAnNy MaChAdO wOuLdN’t HaVe SiGnEd WiTh ThE pAdReS iF tHeY hAdN’t SiGnEd ErIc HoSmEr FiRsT rEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEe !
SDHotDawg
Seidler didn’t “buy out” Fowler. He was always a minority owner.
Facts mean things. And I can go back through every WS team and prove to you that stats don’t matter as much as you think they do. I’m not discounting them, just trying to get you to come down off that bridge a bit.
Billy Baroo
Yes, facts mean things. Seidler bought the majority of Fowler’s shares to become the largest stakeholder in November 2020.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Seidler#:~:text=In%202….
In the playoffs, sure, a weaker regular season team can win. Happens plenty. You’re still talking about teams that made the playoffs because their hitters did a great job of producing runs and their pitching / defense prevented them. No team has ever gotten to the MLB playoffs just by “doing the little things right” or “hustling” or because of “chemistry.” Those are tropes invented by writers to tell stories, not actual causes.
SDHotDawg
@Billy …
First of all, Fowler was NEVER the majority owner. He was elected to the position of Executive Chairman by the other board members. Seidler bought just enough of Fowler’s shares to become the majority shareholder, but Fowler is still an owner. In fact, he’s the Executive Vice Chairman.
Secondly, are you conflating team stats with individual player stats?
Billy Baroo
@SDHotDawg
I don’t believe I ever said that Fowler was the majority owner.
Samuel’s point, with which I disagree, is that since Seidler became the majority owner, Samuel has seen marked changes in how freely Preller can act. That’s wrong for two reasons:
1. Seidler has been the most important / decisive member of ownership since at least 2014. If Seidler had wanted to change Preller’s behavior, he could have done so at any point in the last 7 years.
2. Even after Seidler did buy enough shares to put himself above a 50% stake (I don’t know what the actual breakdown might be), he changed nothing about how Preller operates.
I’m only concerned with team stats, but team stats, in baseball, are largely just adding up individual stats. To use Samuel’s team as an example, the 2016 Royals didn’t make the playoffs and then win it all because they “did things the right way.” They had five well above-average hitters, six after acquiring Zobrist, a very good starting staff, and an absolutely filthy bullpen.
Pads Fans
Seidler never bought out Fowler. He bought a 4% stake from Fowler that made Seidler the majority owner. Fowler is still a partner and holds a huge stake. Fowler had been expected step down as executive Chairman and managing partner and 2 years earlier, but Preller failed to put a winning team on the field so he stuck around. It was age and failing health that ultimately led to him stepping down as Chairman.
Pads Fans
LMAO. Wikipedia? Really? Try again.
Pads Fans
Braaak. Wrong answer. But thanks for playing. Seidler was a minority partner in the tam until 2020. While Fowler discussed things with all 4 of the other majors partners, he ultimately made the decisions. That fact never wavered. Fowler was in charge.
Seidler didn’t buy enough shares to be a 50+% owner. He bought enough to be the largest stakeholder in the partnership.
The changes in how Preller operates has been obvious since Seidler took the reins. Seidler put the kibosh on even talking to 3 managerial candidates that many thought were favorites because of their ties to Preller. Seidler himself has said that he has stepped in and taken a much more hands on approach to contracts and personnel than Fowler did.
So yes, Seidler did change how the Padres operate.
Cosmo2
Wikipedia is a perfectly fine source for this venue. No one here is defending a thesis. Laugh all you want but you haven’t at all made your case or refuted anyone else’s by mocking a source. Just seems that you can’t defend your own argument, Pads. Try again.
Billy Baroo
Do you have any facts that contradict what the Seidler article in Wikipedia say about when he bought those shares and what the result was in terms of ownership balance?
No, no you do not.
If the confusion stems from me using “bought out” as if it means “bought out completely,” that’s my bad. I meant it in terms of buying enough shares, from Fowler, to gain the controlling interest.
Fowler was the public face of the ownership group, and since his ties went back to Moores (maybe earlier), that made sense. There was never any question that the O’Malley / Seidler folks were really running things.
Fowler was part of the Moorad group that tried to buy the Padres on layaway. You know, the group that cut payroll to the bone. Then O’Malley / Seidler show up, and since then we’re spending money. If you think that the people who provided the cash were content to let Fowler call the shots, there’s a bridge for sale in Brooklyn that you might find interesting.
KCMOWHOA
Even as of a couple years ago I think a Hosmer trade was floated to the Royals but yes they’ve moved on now thank god. Nick Pratto is hopefully in MLB at 1st base sometime this season
JoeBrady
Yup, it doesn’t happen too often, but once every few years, you get these universally panned signings or trades. In the 6 years prior to Hosmer’s walk year, he averaged 18 bWAR, and even worse, he averaged 1.9 bWAR/650 PAs.
His career OPS+ prior to his walk year was 107, very weak for a poor-fielding 1B. Even with other bad contracts, you can generally work out a deal to eat salary, like with Arenado. Hosmer is so bad, SD could eat 100% of his salary, and no one will want him.
stymeedone
Hosmer and Myers are two players limited defensively, that no longer hit like they were expected to (if they ever did). Now the Padres are looking at a similar type player in Castellanos, which would cost 2 picks. I love Castellanos bat, but don’t the Padres learn from their mistakes? I know the DH is likely coming, but wouldn’t it be better to put Myers in that role and find a decent OF to play defense?
MLB Top 100 Commenter
If the Padres want to include Abrams and Hassell and Gore, Cubs should take on full salary of Hosmer in a heartbeat. Otherwise, Padres are going to have to chip in a lot of money.
Shane Newbanks 2
Cubs would have done Hosmer (and his full remaining contract) if Hassell was involved.
alc47
I think a lot of teams would take on the Hosmer contract if they include one of Abrams, Hassell or Gore. Those are some outstanding prospects.
User 2079935927
Just Hire Ford Fairlane “The Rock n Roll Detective” and get on with it.
Joospife
well if San Diego is willing to add a prospect like Hassell, Abrams or Campusano, I can see the Cubs as a good business partner as they look to improve their farm and have the payroll space to carry that contract.
Deleted Userr
Hassell and Hosmer for a PTBNL is about fair. They were never going to get Gallo for that. The Rangers were never going to just give Gallo away.
Highest IQ
To bad, because Heyward would appreciate an overpaid friend.
HalosHeavenJJ
Interesting for sure. For the right prospect(s) any large market team should consider eating that contract.
Thing is you better hit on the $59 million worth of prospect or you look really bad.
rhswanzey
Starting to smell like Preller took an elite farm system and really made a mess of things. At least Tatis is locked up.
brushbackmlb
First off, props to MLBTR for finding interesting things to write about. With that recent A-Rod article, here’s a pitch… alternate reality: what do the writers of this site think would’ve happened had that A-Rod to the Red Sox trade actually gone down?
I wonder if the White Sox would still have interest in this trade idea. Could Hosmer improve his value by becoming a second baseman (honestly, I have no idea how he’d handle the position). The Sox May have the salary room and would definitely welcome a new prospect to a fairly thin farm system.
darkstar61
He was a 1B in High School
If ever there was a time he would have been tried at a defensive premium position, it would have been then. Instead he was always a 1st baseman (where his defense has always been overrated)
The idea he could just move to the middle infield now, as a 6’4, 230 pound 32 year old, is frankly nuts
You might be able to convert him to a RF, his arm is strong. But that’s about the limit.
Samuel
@ darkstar61;
The fact that you don’t even know that Hosmer throws LH speaks volumes. It explains a lot of things to me. I’m sure you believe the defensive statistics.
Hosmer is not the problem with the Padres. Did they pay him too much? Yes. That’s not his fault. Is he the reason that they’re not winning? Hardly.
Hosmer was a major cog in a Royals team that went to consecutive WS, including winning one. He and they succeeded because Dayton Moore is light years ahead of Preller in understanding how to assemble winning baseball teams – and Moore did it on a fraction of the (real dollar) budget Preller has been spending the past few years.
darkstar61
Who said I dont know he throws LH – the idea of moving any 6’4, 33yo, poor fielding lifelong 1B to the middle infield is nuts, regardless what hand he throws
And yes, and I also see your other odd rant about how absolutely all statistics mean nothing because you claim you watch all the games and your eyes are the best metric for judging talent
Keep yelling at those clouds, grandpa
Also, the Dayton Moore led Royals have exactly 3 seasons with a win% over 500 in his 15 years running the team. Their record is 1129-1361, a .453 w% over his time. Talk about a guy who clearly knows how to build winners
beersy
Hosmer throws with his left hand, so any possibility of him playing 2nd base are pretty much nil.
GarryHarris
The Padres will be in better financial shape after this season. Eric Hosmer’s salary reduces and Wil Myers is off the books. In the mean time, “pay the piper”. The team is run as if there’s “too many cooks in the kitchen”. The team tanked because it lacked a full complement of pitching and focus on the team vs focus on one individual player.
darkstar61
The team brought in 4 star starters in 1 calander year, adding those to an already promising rotation. To say pitching was the issue points out it wasn’t actually pitching that was the issue. They bought up all the star pitchers they could
And the only reason they’re stuck trying to unload Hosmer now is because they focused on team over individuals. He was overpaid by them solely because of his “leadership”
And his salary going down after 2022 has no affect on the luxury threshold. The luxury penalty is calculated off the average salary of the entire contract, not the yearly salary
Brew’88
They have one healthy SP right now from last years team. SP is most definitely an issue heading into 22
darkstar61
The conversation was about 2021. Having pitching wasnt their problem last year – they had an extreme surplus going into the season, despite the original poster saying otherwise
SDHotDawg
They did NOT have a “surplus.” They were throwing bullpen games in April.
darkstar61
Clevinger
Darvish
Snell
Musgrove
Lamet
Paddack
Gore
Weathers
Knehr
Diaz
Strahm
Morejon
Avila
Yes, they had a surplus
As I said, their issue was not having starters – their issue was keeping them healthy and productive
Deleted_User
@darkstar61 Oh god dude. Did you really just try to include a bunch of guys who they knew were injured going into the season and guys who hadn’t demonstrated a proven ability to go 5 innings per start in the majors to argue that they had a “starter surplus?”
SDHotDawg
You have to add pitchers that were already out with injuries to try and make your point? And AA minor leaguers? That’s laughable.
Clevinger – recovering from TJ. Lamet – trying to avoid TJ, and still a question mark. Gore? Please. Even Weathers would have been in the minors if they actually had any depth. Paddack? He’s been going downhill since the second half of his rookie year. Morejon? TJ, and 2.1 IP per game. Strahm … was on the IL, too.
Do your homework. People like you give Padres fans a bad reputation.
SDHotDawg
@Remove … Yes, he did.
Billy Baroo
We’ve mostly agreed in this thread, but….Clevinger had TJ in November 2020. Lamet was hurt to finish 2020. Paddack was bad in 2020. Gore had never thrown above AA and had been passed over late in the year when the team would have hired the ghost of Gaylord Perry to pitch. They jumped Weathers to the NLDS from A ball “because” they were so desperate for arms. Strahm had already been turned into a reliever.
Preller could reasonably count on Darvish, Musgrove, and Snell being healthy and productive, as much as anyone can ever count on pitchers. The rest of that list are suspect at best. Maybe not all that more suspect than the average rotation for an average team, but far from an embarrassment of riches.
SDHotDawg
@Billy … You said that far more tactfully than I did.
😉
darkstar61
On Nov 15th, 2020
– Clevinger was going to be in the opening day rotation
– Lamet was to be healthy (said “feel like I’m 100 percent” on Feb 19th)
– Gore was expected to make his MLB debut sometime during the season
Upon hearing about Clevinger’s need for TJ, while SDHotDog was busy screaming what they then needed to do was resign Garrett Richards (lol) but that Preller is to dumb to do that, Preller instead went out and got Darvish …and Snell …and Musgrove
At that point they had one of the best and deepest rotations in the MLB
Skip to July 29th, 2021
– 4 of their top 5 rotation options are healthy
– The team is 61-45 (.575 w%, on pace for 93 wins)
– the team had a combined 3.53 ERA, which would have ended up the 4th best in the entire MLB
Did they have a fluke of Aug-Sept? Yeah, it got weird and ugly. But this idea they didn’t have arms is just mindlessness
Their rotation was deep and their depth did their job fantasticly until a fluke situation
And all of SDHotDogs obsessive compulsive insisting that Preller is the dumbest person on the planet will never change that
Deleted_User
@darkstar61 Dude. The Padres’ 2021 rotation was as deep as a kiddie pool. At the first sign of injuries the whole thing went to shxt. That is the very definition of no depth.
And you even said a year ago that Clevinger was a time-bomb. So much so that just getting rid of him was a blessing in disguise for Cleveland.
Billy Baroo
If anyone in the Padre organization didn’t know that Clevinger was headed for surgery on November 15, that’s a serious problem. The peanut vendors knew he was going under the knife, certainly the front office did.
Same thing goes for Lamet, if the front office planned for him to throw even 100 innings, that’s damning. He was shut down in 2020 because the doctors thought continuing would put him at risk for TJ. They didn’t put him on the DL to avoid dead arm or to keep him fresh for the playoffs, they did it to reduce the chance of ligament replacement surgery. As for his “feel 100%” statement, well, let’s count how many players say “I’m in the best shape of my life” in the spring.
We won a lot of those games because of the pen, which became overworked. On July 29 we ranked 22nd in IP by SP, who had a 4.03 ERA. They were pitching fairly well (9th in MLB by xFIP, 12th by fWAR) but not going deep. The pen, though, had been a freakin’ machine to that point. More IP than any other team. Lowest ERA. 5th in xFIP.
Can’t speak to whatever passed between you and SDHD. Certainly it’s not realistic to expect a GM to go 10 deep in legit starting pitchers at AA or higher. But it’s also certainly true that 40% of the projected Padre rotation on Opening Day was composed of Shrug and Cross Fingers For Luck.
Billy Baroo
A l;ittle more digging in the SP splits makes it even more clear.
On July 29, only Darvish and Musgrove had thrown more than 100 innings. Both had pitched well. Everybody else….yikes.
Paddack, 91 IP, 5.14 ERA.
Snell, 84 IP, 5.14 ERA.
Then you drop all the way down to Weathers, 47.2 IP. Good ERA but below-average peripherals that would eventually catch up to him.
After that it’s Lamet, 9 GS, 29.1 IP, just over 3 innings per start. Striking guys out, but no workload to speak of.
Snell, it was reasonable for Preller to expect better results, if not many more innings. But I can’t agree that the rotation had done it’s job until late July. Two of them, yeah. Two and a half, if you hybrid Weathers and Lamet.
SDHotDawg
@darkstar …
I don’t know who you’re trying to convince. Maybe yourself? Because reality is a long way from what you’re saying. Going back to November of 2020 doesn’t exactly help your case, it just makes you sound foolish.
It only takes a couple of facts to point out that we had no depth …
1) Weathers in the rotation when he should have been in AA
2) Bullpen games in April
3) Signing Arrieta and Vasquez off the waiver wire.
I can give you a lot more if you like. It won’t help with your Preller obsession, but …
Pads Fans
Clevinger was injured in 2020. He was never in the conversation in 2021.
Darvish has been injured every full season for the past 5 with an ERA over 4 and he was 34 when Preller traded for him. Not someone you hang your hat on as an Ace.
Snell had been mediocre (4.00 ERA) and injured in every season other than 2018. Another bad trade.
Musgrove was a good trade. He exceeded expectations.
Lamet was injured when the Padres in 2020 and going into 2021. Are you seriously saying they were relying on him as part of their rotation? If they were then Preller is dumber than I think he is.
Paddack was coming off a 4.73 ERA season in 2020. Everyone expected him to struggle and he did. .
The rest were either coming off injuries or had not pitched much in the majors. All question marks. None were considered part of the 2021 rotation. That some of them eventually had to pitch substantial innings is testament to the lack of a surplus of starting pitching and the poor results were to be expected.
Pads Fans
Darvish was 34 and had been injured in each of his last 5 full seasons and put up a 3.65 ERA those seasons. Takes someone pretty clueless too expect him to suddenly be an Ace. He didn’t disappoint smart people as he did exactly what most 34 year old players do, he declined.
Outside of 2018, Snell had a career 4 ERA and had never thrown more than 24 starts due to injuries. To expect him too be anything other than what he had been most of his career was wishful thinking. He did what almost all baseball fans believed he would do, he got hurt and put up a 4 ERA.
August and September was not a fluke. Its what the players history indicated would happen.
SDHotDawg
I think “darkstar” is one of those blind Homers who gets all of his baseball knowledge from an occasional A.J. Cassavell article and the box scores. Since Cassavell really can’t do much more than be a cheerleader for Preller or Padres management, it’s the only thing that makes sense when it comes to the unrealistic stance on pitching depth.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Hey, I thought the Orioles should trade for Hosmer
He is a Gold Glove 1st baseman with an Opt Out after the 2022 season
No one really liked the idea
I even thought the Padres should pay for it and they still didn’t like it
Oh well, I would do it, but not many else.
darkstar61
Hosmer is a horrible fielding 3B
Over his time in SD, he has been a -24 OAA fielder – the single worst of all qualified 1B since 2018.
Brew’88
He plays 1b
darkstar61
Clearly the first use was a typo
Pads Fans
You do realize that OAA and ALL the other defensive metrics don’t include the most important thing a 1B does right? All they include is how a 1B is on balls in play. That is about 1/10th of their job.
Yes, Hosmer has poor lateral movement. But, since the 2012 season no one has been better than Hosmer at the most important part of his job. And its not close. He has been 12.5% better than anyone else. That is why he got 4 Gold Gloves in 5 seasons.
Lets see if you can guess what that part of the 1B job is.
SDHotDawg
@Padsfans … Heh-heh. I know. And it’s a big part of the reason I think defensive metrics are mostly worthless, and that First Base is defensively undervalued.
Deleted_User
The all-knowing Pads Fans who blocks/mutes everyone who disagrees with him on here and Friarhood defending Eric Hosmer now lmfao
SDHotDawg
I don’t even know where to find such stats – if they’re even kept – but I’d love to see the numbers on scoops, digs, and stretches by first basemen.
PutPeteinthehall
He has a ten team no trade clause. Enough said about going to Baltimore.
Billy Baroo
Baltimore seems like a team he and his agent would put on the list, but it’s not a sure thing. He can only pick 10, and I “think” he had to do it already, with Rizzo and Freeman still on the market.
A quite sharp Padre blogger (David Marver) wrote a piece suggesting that, even before Hosmer’s salary drops, he’s a viable platoon player.
gwynntelligence.com/2021/10/19/the-2021-failure-wh…
Marver didn’t address any clubhouse problems that platooning Hosmer might cause, but maybe Melvin can handle it. We Padre fans should be at least mildly concerned about that, Hosmer has watched passively, maybe even contributed, to two managers “losing the clubhouse,”
It was a terrible signing from day one, but I’d rather Preller not pay Campusano / Hassell / Abrams / Gore to move on from his mistake.
Gwynning
Well said Billy!
sergefunction
Cut Hosmer and move on if his post-deadline demeanor was as poisonous as is discussed. Keeping him is like racing an expensive machine with one flat tire.
Or, just deal with him in a reserve role if Padre players want him around as much as was hinted. Waste of space, but you’ve done this to yourself.
If they again dangle him as a trade piece, as if that is reasonable even with a sweetener as is supposedly what happened with Rizzo and Gallo, that’s just bat-crazy. He is your folly and burden with which to deal. This isn’t the NBA where tasty salary-dumplings like this happen freely.
Preller World apparently is a magic land of pretending and projections in his head. It seems a lovely place to escape from the actual standings.
Texas Outlaw
If a top 50 (overall) prospect was put with Hosmer I would jump on it if I was the Rangers. Or maybe 3 or 4 high rated prospects with him.
GarryHarris
Is it true that “the Padres still has a strong farm system”? What have they produced on the field? Fernando Tatis, Dinelson Lamet, Chris Paddack, Ryan Weathers. Was that strong?
Tomahawk Takeover
What they have on the field now is irrelevant to the current state of their farm system.
SDHotDawg
The Pads farm is ranked from 15th to 17th, depending on whose rankings you look at. It’s not “strong” in the least. It’s also very unbalanced in terms of players and level.
Brew’88
Perhaps Mark Polishuk is considering the farm’s overall performance over the past few years with his statement, Still, it’s true that the Pad’s farm has dropped in the past 5 months from top 5 or so to mid-league average. But the international development is still strong, and quite a few young players are entering the farm and will bring the rankings (as subjective as they are) up again assuming Preller doesn’t move them all in trades before that happens.
And, farm rankings are more akin to beauty contests than value assessments, IMO.
SDHotDawg
@Brewer …
I’m not one to take farm rankings too seriously, myself. But, to be fair, I look at the consensus rankings – just because. I follow the minors, but more to look at how individual players are doing (note that I didn’t say “prospects”). And we have very few minor leaguers who stood out.
What makes you think international development is “still strong?” It’s part of the system, and stats are available.
Brew’88
@Dawg. I don’t have an update on their international development but the signings they made last year seemed great, and are consistent with the program that has been successful in recent years. If they reload quickly it will be via the international guys. I like that they scout beyond Cuba/DR into places like the Bahamas and Venezuela, eastern Asia, and the large signing bonuses offered by Pads (compared to most MLB teams) attracts some of the higher upside late teen prospects like Victor Acosta, Brayan Medina. Samuel Zavala. There’s been turnover with key scouts, so hopefully the team’s investment in the program keeps it strong.
Also, the Pads are appear to have improved (IMO) in their drafting of players…and there was a lot of room for improvement. But. Abrams, Campusano, Hassell, Merrill, Wood, maybe Mears and Elliott, all seem very promising big leaguers. Obviously, Abrams is on the verge in 22
SDHotDawg
Well, I’m still waiting for those teenaged bonus baby international signings to pay off. Preller’s been scouting international 16-year olds for a long time, but his actual results seem average at best.
His drafting is also open to be questioned, and calls into question his skill and impatience with development, especially with pitching. Since he arrived in August of 2014, he hasn’t demonstrated any aptitude at finding, signing, and building a big league pitching staff. The exception was only just last year when he actually signed Clevinger, Darvish, Snell, and Musgrove. He had to go find and pay for decent, established pitching from outside. (Yeah, Clev was a year and a half ago).
He’s in his EIGHTH YEAR, and the only player on the ML roster you can say was developed in our system is Tatis. But, he ate millions in Shields’ contract to get him, when he could have signed him a year before for only about $500K.
Brew’88
You asked me how I felt about the international program so I tried to comment on that. If we’re going to devolve into another general trashing of Preller I’m bored of that convo to be honest! But I do think from your comment you’re missing some of the excellent players that have been developed by Pads, in particular by the international program scouting. Tatis was scouted by Pads. Patino was a recent player scouted and developed. Sure’s he ended up being a trade piece, but if the discussion is about the performance of their intenational program, then that’s relevant.
Deleted_User
Only players from the 2016 international splurge that haven’t busted are Luis Patiño, Gabriel Arias and (maybe) Tucu Marcano. And they were all traded. So they don’t count (Oh no they don’t! There’s no point in having a strong farm system if you can’t develop the players. And getting the players over the hump from AAA to the majors is more important than all the other steps in the development process COMBINED!)
Deleted_User
@SDHotDawg THANK YOU! For pointing out that the Padres could have just offered Tatis more $ than the White Sox in the first place rather than just eating half of Shields’ contract to trade for him. I’m sick of people defending the Shields trade just because he was traded for Tatis.
Brew’88
misery loves company?
SDHotDawg
You’re the one deflecting it to be all about Preller. It’s not. It’s about his results. Of which, there are few. Yet, since he’s the GM, you simply can’t logically discuss his drafts, signings, development and minor leagues, without assigning him any responsibility and accountability.
In this case, your deflection simply makes no sense. It’s like I’ve stumbled upon Preller’s burner account!
SDHotDawg
You must.
SDHotDawg
@Brewer …
You’re starting to remind me of one of those low baseball IQ super-homers who chased everybody off Gaslamp Ball a few years ago. There’s your compatriots in misery.
Brew’88
Lol. Cheer up dude
Gwynning
Some fans are insufferable at all costs. Lots of salient points, Brewer!!
mlb1225
The Padres’ system is probably about average now. Pretty top heavy. The only big time prospect they dealt between the Musgrove, Snell, Darvish, and A. Frazier deals was Luis Patino.
However, they pretty much dealt all their system depth. David Bednar, Hudson Head and Tucupita Marcano went to the Pirates. Blake Hunt and Cole Wilcox went to TB. They traded three very young players for Darvish. Also dealt Anderson Espinoza for a rental of Jake Marisnick. Kept the big names, but simultaneously (I probably spelled that wrong) thinned out the system.
SDHotDawg
We can go all the way back to Trea Turner!
Hot Corner IJ
So Hosmer is owed $59 Million for 2022 through 2025. First overall draft choices have a cost of about $9 Million. If Hosmer is slightly above replacement level is an estimate valye say $2 to $3 Million. Let’s say $3 Million for argument sake. Subtract $12 Million from $59 Million leaves $47 Million excess. If 1st round draft picks generally have excess value lets throw a dart at a board say $9 million. So the value of a 1st round pick is $18 million. So a trading team with the padres would want 2 1st overall pick values and some kind additional 3rd valued player. Plus the value of the player going back to the Padres. Please keep in mind many assumptions were made in this thought process.
darkstar61
The Cozart trade was to unload just 12.7 million in salary. Doing so cost the Angels their most recent 1st rounder, who was picked 15th overall
12.7 x 4 is 50.8 million, which is not that far off your 47 estimate
So the value is near 4 first rounders based off the recent example
BobGibsonFan
I love these types of articles. That’s what a rumors site should be. Not articles about a AAA signing or old guys going to japan. Those arent rumors, they are actual transactions.
Tomahawk Takeover
It’s obviously all things baseball. To report rumors, but not transactions, would make this a horrible site.
Deleted_User
LOL
619bird
Maybe they can work out a deal to trade Hoyer and Preller for each other as well. One mans trash….
VegasSDfan
Maybe Hosmer has a huge 2022 and opts out. 13 million a year after isn’t a lot of money.
Deleted Userr
Don’t be naive. Hosmer is never opting out.
SDHotDawg
Hosmer isn’t opting out. No way.
Preller even gave Profar a player option. Why do you think he exercised it?
Billy Baroo
Hosmer would be trying to beat a 3 year, 39M contract after 2022. Say he lucks into some batted ball outcomes or just hits better, 115-120 OPS+ neighborhood. Maybe the Padres make the playoffs and he has some big moments.
It’s not bloody likely, for sure, but not zero. Less than 10%.
Deleted Userr
In order for Hosmer to opt-out he would have to hit so well in 2022 that Padres fans on here are pleading for him to stay. If no such level of production exists, then no such level of production exists where he opts out.
Billy Baroo
There’s a fine line where he could hit well enough to think there’s a better contract available (players in general do not lack for confidence) but not so well that fans would be up in arms if he left.
It’s an awfully narrow band, though, you’re right.
SDHotDawg
And smart Padre fans would say ” trade him now” if that happened.
Billy Baroo
Unfortunately, as somebody pointed out above, there are still Padre fans who believe that radically overpaying Hosmer led directly to signing Machado. Not smart fans, but they’re still out there. Ran into a kid who called himself “HosmerforHOF” or some such right here on MLBTradeRumors last year.
Manny signed with SD for 300,000,000 reasons, and not a single one of them was “Eric Hosmer.”
SDHotDawg
Yep. There are a couple of people who believe that nonsense. All you can do is roll your eyes.
Gwynning
I’ve only heard one person ever say that and its the RemovePicherWins guy repeating it on virtually every Padre transaction.
Deleted_User
@SDHotDawg You can also hunt them down on every thread demanding to see evidence of their claims.
Deleted_User
@Gwynning If you like, I can drop links to people from here and Twitter making that claim.
Deleted Userr
@Billy Baroo If a player opts out it means he’s playing well enough that fans would be up in arms about him leaving. Source: Previous opt-out decisions
Gwynning
Idgaf about Twitter or “your” other links; I stand by my statement that you are the only person I’ve ever heard say it. That’s all I was conveying. Not saying you believe it, but you are the only person beating that drum.
Deleted_User
@Gwynning What I really want is to find out where that narrative originated.
SDHotDawg
My guess is Gaslamp Ball. Aka, the private Preller Fan Club, where critical thinking is not permitted!
Gwynning
@RPW- Why? And why would you keep repeating it then? Whatever floats your boat… but we’re done here.
Deleted_User
@SDHotDawg Still banned from there. Will be 4 years next month. Oh well.
SDHotDawg
LOL … I haven’t been there since about 2015.
Gwynning
So RemovePitcherWins is the same guy as “The Observer”… my emails just confirmed it after he said the same thing (verbatim) under both tags but deleted one. Only shady af users have multiple sign-ins!!! I’m the one and only, no reason to hide from my statements on a Trade Rumor site!!
Deleted_User
Nope. All opinions are my own. If someone else arrives at the same conclusion independently that just means they’re smart.
Deleted_User
That’s just creepy there bro. As consistent with the rest of your personality.
Keep the anger though. It suits you.
Deleted_User
Tipsy McStagger = trillaryhump2016 = Begone Spenglerd = Steve Garvey’s Son is that you?
Gwynning
Go re-read everything I said above and maybe, just maybe, you’ll get it this time… but I’m not holding my breath.
Deleted_User
lol
nentwigs
Padres should focus on unloading Wil Myers. Last year for him at 20M. Last year for Hosmer at 20M and next year drops to 13M. Hosmer may bounce back and if he does not the reduced hit will make his contract more palatable.. Meanwhile Padres save 20M in 2022 by dumping Myers – even if it means sweetening the pot with prospects to get the trading partner to take on the full 20M.
darkstar61
Hosmer will cost them 18 million in luxury in 2022, just as he has the last 4 seasons
The article outlines how the Padres care more about the 18 number, not the 13. The Padres salary problem is the luxury, not base salary
And Myers only costs the team 13 million of luxury, not 20
mbart33
Hosmer contract for haywards
Tomahawk Takeover
That defeats the purpose for both teams. SD doesn’t want another albatross contract and the Cubs would want the highly touted prospect
PutPeteinthehall
Friars can find a taker for 2023 if he has a decent season in 22. Maybe with the DH his offensive numbers are a little better and a team without cap concerns makes a deal. Can’t see anyone taking his contract on now unless the new agreement increases the cap and the Friars take back a smaller bad contract as part of the deal.
CalcetinesBlancos
Is it technically a “discussion” if one side suggests a trade and the other side laughs and hangs up the phone?
Brew’88
If they just hung up without laughing, then no. But the laughing makes it so.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Brewer:
I have to agree with that.
guille
“This contract wouldn’t be a problem if Hosmer was still hitting”… what do you mean? He NEVER hit! He also got GGs based on reputation alone, he’s never been a good fielder. I mean, good for him, he’s got a ton of money in the bank, but indefensible contract. Good luck finding a taker
Samuel
“…he’s never been a good fielder.”
I watched the man for years. He’s an exceptional fielding 1B. Who else says so? Among others, Keith Hernandez – the winner of 11 consecutive gold gloves at 1B.
There is something radically wrong with defensive statistics. Combine that with people that don’t watch games and/or understand how winning baseball is played, and here we are.
The Padres have a lot of problems. Preller’s ego, need for attention, and inability to understand that he’s not a fraction as smart as he thinks he is top the list. The new owner is working on it. The situation will be resolved in the next few years – one way or the other.
Billy Baroo
Have you watched him a Padre? Whatever he may have done with the glove as a Royal, he’s made a lot of defensive mistakes wearing a SD jersey.
In 2015, when KC won the Series, Hosmer had a good year. No question. Very good in 2017 too. That does not change the simple fact that he’s been mediocre or worse in San Diego, outside of the short 2020 campaign. He’s been a bad hitter and a poor fielder.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
You are both right, very good fielder in KC, slightly below average in SD.
Samuel
“…..and yet the veteran has batted only .264/.323/.415 (99 wRC+, 102 OPS+) over his four seasons in San Diego.”
I get that the issue is his contract. But last year Andrew McCutchen made $16.6m and just got bought out for another $3m while slashing .222/ .334/ .444 (don’t have time to look for the wRC+, and OPS+). And McCutchen has stunk in LF the past 3 years.
Point being that no one on here – writers or posters – jumped on him like they are Hosmer.
Billy Baroo
I don’t pay attention to the Phillies, so can’t speak to what their notoriously outspoken fans / media have or have not said about him. Neither he nor Hosmer has produced with PHI or SD. But a 3 / $50M deal versus 8 / $ 144 might explain some of the scrutiny.
Brew’88
@ Baroo The stats don’t really show much of a change in Hosmer’s fielding since KC, where he somehow won the 4 GGs with a negative dWAR.. His dWAR as a Pad is about the same, so is his fielding% and E-rate. I don’t value those D metrics much though, and obviously the GG voters don’t either.
That said, I’ve attended about 25% of home games during his Padre career, and our seats are on 1B Field Level, and I have definitely noticed his skills in saving bad throws are not up to par with better fielding 1Bmen.
SDHotDawg
@Samuel … Hosmer WAS a good fielder. But since his first season with the Pads, he has drastically declined. That opinion comes from watching almost every game, and not those worthless defensive “metrics.”
JayKay
“worthless” defensive metrics, lol.
SDHotDawg
If you knew how they were compiled, you wouldn’t laugh. In the words of FanGraphs, they’re “problematic.”
JayKay
Fair enough. Only metrics I trust are of the statcast variety anyways. That’s where my disagreement with your take is.
Anything else, like WAR and such, I agree are flawed and, imo, unreliable.
mlb1225
Only defensive metric that really deserves a ton of weight is outs above average. It pretty much takes everything measureable into account. Where the fielder was positioned, how far they needed to move in order to make a play, how far they were from the base they threw to, even how fast the runner was moving down the baseline.
Pads Fans
For 1B, even that stat is does not reflect their defensive value. OAA, DRS, and UZR only include how a 1B reacts to balls in play hit in his zone. That is a tiny portion of a 1B job.
SDHotDawg
A lot of people think Myers was a good first baseman. Obviously, they didn’t see many games.
Bozzmania
Hopefully
Pads Fans
Defensive stats for 1B ONLY include balls in play. That is about 1/10th of a 1B job. Its at that 90% that Hosmer has been the best in baseball since 2012.
guille
Maybe you didn’t watch other first basemen who were much better? C’mon, it’s 2021, you really think the eye test is best?
SDHotDawg
In many cases, yes. I never saw a spreadsheet field a ball or get a base hit.
solaris602
Ownership first needs to sit Preller down and say, “This was a bad contract, and everybody knew it the moment he signed it. Before you unload this bum – and you WILL – resolve to avoid spending money like a drunken sailor on every shiny object you see. Stop throwing money at every single problem that comes down the pike.”
Deleted Userr
Only way to attract premium free agents is to throw money at them
mike156
Hosmer’s contract remains one of those “what where they thinking” types. He was erratic on a year-to-year basis and never, even in his better seasons, anywhere near the top ten (or even top 20) in WAR.
SDHotDawg
Even at the time of the signing, there were countless writers and pundits shaking their heads and criticizing Preller for the Hosmer contract.
Billy Baroo
Right after they hired Dave Cameron, too.
Hey, let’s beef up our analytics group with a really bright baseball mind. And then pay no attention to that mind because we had lunch with Hosmer and he ate like a winner.
SDHotDawg
It should be noted that Cameron “resigned” at the end of the season. And nobody’s asking “why?”
48-team MLB
They paid him because he has a ring. They foolishly thought that he could bring a championship atmosphere to San Diego.
Gwynning
You’re applying a lot of 20/20 hindsight vision here, 48…
thickiedon
The only place Hosmer would seem to have any kind of value would be KC. SD swapping Hosmer and prospects for Santana makes sense to me. Am I crazy?
Billy Baroo
Moore does seem like the kind of exec who’d overvalue Hosmer’s supposed intangibles.
I’d love it as a Padre fan, because then we just cut Santana, but would the Royals do it for anything other than one of our top four prospects?
thickiedon
Hosmer, Abrams, Hassell
for
Santana, Merrifield, Barlow
??
Billy Baroo
Abrams feels untouchable. From KC’s side, they’ve resisted trading Merrifield for years. It might be fair, value-wise, I haven’t thought about it too deeply. But in practical terms, it doesn’t seem to fit either team’s MO.
My bet, which I wouldn’t put much money on, would be that any Hosmer trade involves SD paying 33-50% of his salary and giving up a Hassell+ package. Not sure that’s better than just riding out 2022, hoping for a miracle opt-out, and if not, making a less painful deal when his salary declines.
Gwynning
Bingo Baroo, again!
jtango
I kind of feel sorry for Hosmer in that he is now fairly reviled in San Diego. We all could have foreseen that he would be a disappointment, not worth the money, But what was he supposed to do, say no to like a zillion dollars? And now people openly diss him and view him as a problem.
(And yes, the zillion dollars that he has in the bank sure are nice insulation against being disliked and mocked, but still, its kind of a tough thing to hang on the man… really, we should be mocking AJ Preller for this rather than Hosmer)
Billy Baroo
I have zero problems with Hosmer signing the contract. That mistake was all Preller, like you say.
I do have problems with Hosmer:
1) Refusing to adapt his offensive approach;
2) Doing no visible work to improve his defense;
3) Failing to be a leader while young managers struggled.
The second and third points are conjecture, I admit. Maybe he works his tail off defensively in closed practices and he just can’t physically do any better. Maybe he tried everything to hold the team together while they cratered after the ASG 2021. BUT….those are the kind of Babbittesque articles that beat writers LOVE to publish (“Savvy veteran shows leadership in times of trial”), and we saw nary a word.
Brew’88
@ Baroo. In 60-game 2020 season, Hos revamped his swing, taking a more upward arc which greatly improved his power numbers and reduced his propensity for ground outs. I thought we’d see the same in 21 but his swing-miss ratio went up early in season causing him to shorten and level up, and revert back to groundballing..
SDHotDawg
If you recall, this team drove off a cliff in the second half of 2019, too.
Spare Tire Dixon
Why would the Cubs want Hosmer? Didn’t they just unload everyone and shed payroll?
darkstar61
They were trading away anyone they could get prospects for, not unloading salary
They could take Hosmer because of their lack of luxury issue and more important to them, get the top prospect that would be attached
bhambrave
My fear is that the Braves pass on re-signing Freddie and either trade Ozuna and prospects for Hosmer (with SD cutting Ozuna a la Hector Olivera), or trade Ozuna for Hosmer and Myers.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Nah. Braves are stuck with Marcell. Nor will they acquire Padres’ overpays. I still like Wil Myers, Eric Hosmer, CJ Abrams and Hassell for Kyle Hendricks. The salary of Myers and Hendricks are a wash for 2022 and Hendricks fills a rotation spot. The prospects are the high price to dump Hosmer and Myers.
Brew’88
@ Manny. c’mon be serious. CJ is on another planet.
Gwynning
To be fair, I think every Cubs fan would want that deal… and every SD fan is laughing.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I am positing that it takes a Hassell quality player to trade Hosmer and another Hassell quality prospect to trade Myers and that Kyle Hendricks is a valuable one-year rental for the Padres. So if CJ is too good, then maybe it would be Hassell, Gore and James Wood?
Deleted_User
Myers is still underwater but his negative trade value is limited because it’s only for one year.
Billy Baroo
Isn’t Hendricks signed through 2023 (two years)?
Not sure the Cubs would do that deal, even though they moved Darvish for less than they could have. Hendricks was pretty darn good from 2016 to 2020. Yeah, 2021 wasn’t so great, but he’s not expensive and teams always want a vet to soak up innings. If he reverts to form he’s a great trade chip without needing to take back salary.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Good catch, yes, Hendricks is signed for 2022 and 2023. An option for 2024 vests only if Kyle is on top three for Cy Young in 2022 or 2023. So yes, Cubs should. Not make that deal without Abrams involved.
Gwynning
I appreciate your enthusiasm, but no chance do we trade 3 top-flight prospects in a Hoz dump for 2 years of Hendricks… we’d rather eat the $59m over the next 4 or pay up to 50% in a lateral move.
SDHotDawg
CJ is a middle infielder. If we can’t get rid of Hosmer and move Cro to first base, he’s effectively blocked. And that makes him trade bait.
Brew’88
There are actually other solutions that don’t involve a CJ trade. But if he’s dealt, his value would garner far more than a Hoz dump or a mediocre SP.
Billy Baroo
* Abrams could move to the outfield. His offense would play there.
* Bench Hosmer, make Jake the 1b, Abrams plays 2b. Assuming Tatis gets his throwing back under control, that’s the best defensive infield in the majors.
* Tatis continues to struggle defensively, HE moves to the outfield, Abrams/Jake handle the middle infield.
Abrams is an elite prospect. You don’t move him because you overpaid a poor 1b.
Brew’88
@Baroo Abrams not likely to break camp on roster (mostly due to injury setback) but when he’s called it will be permanent and in a combination of your first two options.
The benefits to labrum of having Nino as OF rather than SS seem very minimal so I’d be surprised if that option gains ground.
Abrams aside, Cron is likely to see time at 1st, especially to give Kim more playing time.
If by elite you mean ranked in top 3 in MLB, then I agree. In a trade he’d vetch an all star, upper tier, but they won’t deal him.
SDHotDawg
If they’re thinking about Abrams in the OF, he should stay in the minors to get some reps and learn how to play it. He’s only got 312 professional ABs, with only 162 in AA, so it wouldn’t hurt him to develop a little more.
Deleted Userr
And Ha-Seong Kim should never play anywhere but shortstop.
SDHotDawg
@Observer … Agreed. But if his bat doesn’t catch up to big league pitching, all he’s going to be is a high priced sub. Either that, or he’s going to need a lot of good bats around him in the lineup. Also working against him is the fact that he was terrible as a pinch-hitter. He’s superb at SS, but Kim’s destiny will be decided by his bat.
kingman1
Getting a little desperate here aren’t we?
48-team MLB
The White Sox and Cubs both have three World Series titles and the White Sox won the only all-Chicago World Series. However, the Cubs have won back-to-back titles back in the Prehistoric ages. The White Sox have cooler uniforms but the Cubs have a better stadium.
Rsox
A change of scenery could have been/still be good for Hosmer but from the Cubs perspective i wonder what would make them want to take on another Jason Heyward type contract. Seems as though the Cubs were at least mulling a “retool” over a “rebuild”
Cap & Crunch
Id bet it was the “highly regarded prospect”
394sd
I wonder if that star prospect is Campusano…
Gwynning
It had been stated (by upper management/ownership) none of the Pads Big 4 of Gore, CJ, Bobby 3 Sticks or Campy were dangled in any way, shape or form at the ’21 Trade Deadline. Doesn’t mean other teams didn’t ask about them, though!
Deleted_User
Where?
MLB Top 100 Commenter
As a Cubs fan, I am not interested in Campusano. More based on talent than him beating the rap on the drug charges.
sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/padres/story/2021-…
David C
I am a Royals fan who is very appreciative of Hosmer’s contributions in KC, particularly in regards the back-to-back AL pennants and 2015 series win, but, I was shocked that any team would be deluded enough to proffer Hosmer the kind of contract that the Friars did. One of the biggest overpays I’ve ever seen. Even the Royals own deferment heavy 100 million dollar offer of their own was something that I rightfully then considered an overpay contract. Padres by all accounts deserve to eat every cent.
Deleted_User
Here’s the comments from the Hosmer signing lol
mlbtraderumors.com/2018/02/padres-to-sign-eric-hos…