The Major League Baseball Players Association has organized a “fully staffed” stadium and training facility in Arizona for players to work out during the course of the lockout, reports Robert Murray of FanSided (Twitter link). Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports (on Twitter) that the union has interest in arranging a similar facility in Florida.
That the MLBPA has set up alternative training options for players unable to access team facilities is the latest indication of what has become apparent — there’s little reason to believe a new collective bargaining agreement is imminent. The league’s imposed deadline for agreeing upon a new CBA without canceling regular season games is today, and MLB has informed the union of their willingness to scrap a month’s worth of regular season action.
So long as the lockout drags on, players on 40-man rosters will remain unable to have contact with team personnel or to access club facilities. Plenty of players work with independent trainers even during typical offseasons, and it seems likely many will continue to stay in shape on their own.
That said, the union’s arrangement of an operational stadium and facility (and apparent desire to create a second on the other coast of the country) provides players with another option. It’s the latest union effort to bolster solidarity and willingness to continue to wait out the work stoppage. Of greatest import as the threat of lost game checks looms larger by the day is a strike fund compiled by the MLBPA’s withholding of licensing revenue over the past few years in anticipation of a potential lockout.
Dig in, MLBPA!
yes. I had thought the players were getting a decent deal in recent years but no. MLB has increased their earnings but the players have not shared in that. MLB is taking a hard line, so until they give a little more, no baseball. I can live with that.
But, it’s difficult for fans to be sympathetic to the supposed player’s plight when Juan Soto turns down 350 million. There’s enuff money for both sides.
Players are getting 36% of the total revenues from the owners.
10.7 billion owners revenue divided by 3.8 billion in players salaries!!
That is not a decent deal?! What other employees get 36% of owners revenue? Owners revenue dipped to 4 billion in pandemic year of 2020; they take all the risk!!
Hang tough owners and break the back of the MLBAA; no I did not spell it wrong it is the MLB Agents A who are the real puppeteers of the players.
I can’t understand why fans care about the owners or players unless one of them is a relative or you work in baseball.
As noted below, NBA players get 50%, NFL players 48%. So that answers your question
The NFL salary cap is lower than the MLB luxury cap level despite MLB having half the roster size.
“What other employees get 36% of owner’s revenue?” Most. In my job we employees “get” just under 75% of the revenue. It’s not just our salaries, but also our benefits including paid leave and insurance. Employers also pay into various federal taxes (example FICA which both you and your employer pay 6.2% of your gross wages to the Feds in FICA tax) and workers comp coverage. It not uncommon, especially in small businesses, for the largest expense, by far, to be the cost of labor.
Maybe because I like watching baseball.
No.. 7.65%+ wages + benes about 30%..never 75%
Whether the players are already getting a “decent deal” depends on which comps you’re using.
Concert promoters earn 5% to 15% of the gross profits generated by live concert performances with 85% to 95% going to top-tier musical acts, for instance.
That’s one the MLBPA may cite when pressed for comps favoring a >36% share or revenue.
Revenue doesn’t equal profit.
I’d like to see the EBITDA of your company
We know that the Braves revenue and profit have increased concurrently and at close to the same rate since the beginning of the previous CBA in 2017. They are owned by a publicly traded company so we get to see their quarterly and annual statements.. Baseball has experienced a 30% increase in overall revenue since 2017. Increases in revenue for all teams without increases in COGS = increases in profit. COGS in baseball would include player salaries and benefits. We know player salaries have gone down significantly across the league over the past 5 years. Ballpark costs are usually steady like a mortgage or a lease. No other significant increases in COGS. So you are right, but not in the way you thought. Revenue doesn’t = profit. In this case the increase in profit was at a higher rate than the increase in revenue.
In the NFL the players are guaranteed 48.8% of revenue in their CBA.
In the NHL the players are guaranteed 50% of revenue.
In the NBA the players are guaranteed 49-51% of revenue.
In my business, which is a service, our employees get more than 65% of gross revenue in salaries, commissions, benefits, and various taxes. I think my business is pretty typical for a successful, 20+ year old service business in terms of COGS.
The average NFL salary is $860.000
The average NHL salary is $2.5 million
The average NBA salary is $7.9 million
The average MLB salary is $4.17 million
The NFL pays 53 players on its roster. The NHL, 23. The NBA, 15. And MLB, 26.
Obviously the NBA pays fewer players so they can pay more money, often player contracts don’t exceed 5 years in length at most. The NFL pays the most amount of players while also paying the least amount of money and a large portion of most player salary is not guaranteed. The NHL generates the least revenue of the 4 major team sports and the highest paid player in the league makes just over $15 million per season. MLB is the only sport where players want decade long commitments at high aav in what usually amounts to the declining years of the player.
The one area the NBA succeeds the best over MLB is marketing the brand. Every team no matter how good or bad gets national tv exposure thanks to the fact that the NBA has national telecasts 5/6 times per week. MLB for all the tv money they get, does not do that. In fact ESPN’s new deal actually allows for fewer games on the network, usually showcasing the same five or six teams. Maybe MLB players deserve a greater slice of the pie, maybe.
lookouts: It’s not about the Juan Soto’s of MLB. It’s more about the minimum pay & the pre-arbitration players. The cream of the crop guys seem to always get their money but what about the others? The average MLB career is getting shorter and shorter when you look at the overall numbers.
For example if a player is DRAFTED out of college he’s (most likely) already 21 or 22. If said player spends his 1st full pro season between Hi A & AA (age 22-23). His 2nd full season (age 23-24), he starts at AA or AAA until the team has another year of control. As of the last CBA, the guy is under team (cost) control @ league minimum for 3 yrs then arbitration eligible for 3 yrs. At this point the guy is at 29-30 years old.
Canosucks: The owners reap all of the rewards for the players Top 1% athletic abilities. We fans don’t overpay the owners to watch the owners sit in their offices. We overpay the owners to watch the best baseball players entertain us.
You missed the KEY here. Percentage of revenue.
Anthonyd4412: Re comparing MLB to the NFL look at the salaries for the top 10 players at each of the the “skilled” positions and the top 5 of the other positions. Then look at the next 10 & 5. After that you’ll see a significant drop off until you approach league minimum. When you look at the “guaranteed” contracts of the NFL you’ll see which players are truly overpriced.
Baseball gets in more expensive for the fans then you could learn to live without MLB even if they reach an agreement.
Not enough is said about the raw percentage the players are getting. I did some hand calculations for the 2019 season, as there’s no place that lists just the total MLB player’s salary for that year. But I added up everything on Spotrack for that year and divided the MLB’s reported revenue for that year.
The players got just a hair under 40% of revenue. By comparison, the NBA gets 50, NFL gets 48, and NHL is around 50 as well.
The players should absolutely be getting more.
You aren’t taking into consideration the management staffs, training staffs, administration staffs, minor leagues, coaches. Also consider, many of the stadiums have private upkeep costs that the team owner invests in as well. Most NBA/NHL arenas are municipally owned and paid for by the city, not the team, who just pays rent for game days.
You can pay the entire stadium staff, including all vendors, your training staff, the coaching staff, administration, minor league staff, scouting staff, the analytical guys and any other auxiliary staff you can think of for less than Max Scherzer’s salary. Their impact on ownership’s profit margin is between negligible and minimal depending on what team we’re talking about.
Almost all MLB ballparks are paid for the same way as football stadiums, and basketball and hockey arenas, taxpayer money. A higher percentage of MLB ballparks received taxpayer money than football stadiums according to Forbes. 29 of 30 MLB ballparks pay some kind of lease. We know from the 2 publicly held MLB teams that all the costs associated with the FO, training, coaches, all team operations staff (everyone from ticket sales to accountants to groundskeepers), and the salaries of all minor league players and coaches, basically all other costs associated with running the team, equals an average of roughly 2.5% of total revenue. About the same $$$ as one middle of the rotation starter or one good setup reliever.
For less than a third of Max Scherzer’s salary.
Then MLB players should go play in the NFL NBA NHL if they want more shares.
They can “go play in the NFL…”
…or use the right to collective bargaining afforded them and negotiate with management for more compensation. Like they are doing.
Dumb
So the business models of the NFL, NBA and NHL are not only exactly the same but also the same as MLB? That’s like comparing the business models of Amazon and Google. There are similarities, but they are not the same.
The NFL, NBA, and NHL are decidedly different than MLB. In MLB the owners books are closed. In the other 3 they are open to the players unions. In the other major sports in the US the teams share revenue 100% and all TV contracts are national. In MLB revenue is shared 48% and for most teams more money comes from local TV deals than national TV deals. In the NFL, NHL, and NBA players are guaranteed 48.8-51% of the total revenue. In MLB the players made 38% including benefits. In MLB the minimum salary was $575k. In the NFL minimum salary is $825K, in the NHL $750k, and in the NBA $953K. Revenue in MLB has grown the fastest in MLB over the past 5 years while the NBA has seen the most growth in the value of teams followed by MLB.
Once baseball resumes whenever that is i think should go on strike and ban baseball for an entire month. Let them play in empty stadiums and show them we have a voice too. Of course this is totally unrealistic, but man we have a voice too.
@Benjamin560 I like sending a message. Majority of people will run right back. The more games they miss the more people will be turned off.
Amen. I’m taking the personal action of not supporting baseball for one week for every day the season is delayed.
Did you see this today? twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1498338232244879369
Here is the link to the article and video on ESPN. espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33362477/inside-self-infli…
These are the same people who are so clueless they vote for cheaters to get into the hall of fame.
So excuse me if I couldn’t care less what they write.
That’s cool. We could care less what you write. Passan at least understands what he is talking about in terms of the labor stoppage. You have not shown that ability so far.
@outinleftfield So if I understand correctly, you are saying we do care what @Halo11Fan writes?
This is terrible as a long-suffering Mariners fan. I’m convinced that WW3 will break out and then Armageddon, just as the 7th game of the World Series starts and the Mariners are about to walk it off in the bottom of the 9th…
WW3 has already broken out.
Not really though.
L
Dont worry. You are dreaming….
The Mariners would never actually play in the World Series
This is ridiculous … get a damn mediator and settle
The mediator actually made it worse in ‘94. His first suggestion was eliminating feee agency. Both the players and the owners said it was a bad process.
not all mediators are the same person…
There is no benefit to the players from allowing a mediator. Only the owners can benefit from a mediator right now. So tell me why the players would agree to a mediator?
Sure. Why not make your own league ? Buy land in thirty or so cities. Build stadiums or pay rent. See how much u got left to pay each other ? Nice salaries playing in 5000 stadium in Iowa
Antitrust?
independent leagues?
Plenty of empty stadiums in America.
There’s also a lot of rich people that can make a new league a reality.
The owners better be careful!
@Not impressed All for competition but if they love baseball so much and can compete with MLB salary wise why haven’t they done it? Or simply bought a mlb team. I think most fans will keep rooting for their mlb team unless the other league has better players.
Antitrust?
independent leagues?
I own a few microbreweries and sponsor a little league team, I’m ready to buy one of these independent pro teams you speak of, they can play on our field though the fences might need to be moved back. The fans will come.
MLB earns $12 billion a year. From the number of guys that are in the bidding every time a team is for sale, I am quite sure that other billionaires would step up and buy teams and ballparks if the US government lifted MLB’s antitrust exemption. I am also 100% sure that the TV deals would follow the current MLB players, not the owners. In fact, all the national TV deals currently are predicated on MLBPA members playing the games.
Let the fans know where you’ll be practicing and if you have any games and I’ll show up!
I’ll support the players and enjoy some quality baseball!
This is awesome! Takes the pressure off the owners. Everyone should get ready for an extended period of negotiations and I’d continue to advise the owners to stay strong. They are playing it perfectly and I think it all ends up in their favor in the end. The players have too much to lose. Owners win each and every time. Short term loss = long term gain. Stay patient.
Crap… who cares who wins or loses in the negotiations. Same pot of OUR money. Yet we don’t get baseball. Both selfish greedy but that’s the American way.
It’s just a smart negotiation. Everyone gets so emotional. Let business owners and their employees work things out. You’re going to lose some baseball games. You’ll be fine.
What a chooch. Owners can stick it where the sun don’t shine
I mean that’s fine. You can hate them, but they’re playing this brilliantly and I applaud them. Not sure why you hate people who pay their absolute worst employees $600,000 a year. Sounds pretty fair to me.
Not sure how they’re playing this brilliantly. They will win the battle against the players, but not the fans. This will hurt the game, their reputations and overall value. I just don’t think they care.
They pay the players that minimum salary, but there are a lot of supporting employees far below that amount.
This entire lockout looks bad on ownership.
History shows it never hurts them. Fans will come back and they know it. They just can’t cave and they win. Go look at history of every sports strike ever.
It took a while to come back in 94. I cancelled my season tickets.
I wasn’t the only one.
You’re only talking about attendance. Ticket prices increased, tv revenue increased and franchise value ALL increased in the few years after 1994. It was all positive. Strikes don’t hurt long term. There is no downside.
It’s a fair point. I am only talking about tickets.
I haven’t stopped following the team. I live out of state and have MLB extra innings.
And I just wonder how much they’ve calculated ticket sales into this already and figured that corporate sponsorships and regional sports nets are assets they didn’t have in 1994. I think it’s a pretty powerful position and while we’ll all be ticked to lose some games, they know we’ll be back with some of the exciting younger talent in the game.
“Not sure why you hate people who pay their absolute worst employees $600,000 a year. Sounds pretty fair to me.”
No, they pay rookie ball guys about a grand a month for five or six months.
Yep, my interns get paid crap as well! Welcome to rookie ball. Do something special and you’ll get paid something special.
@oldoak
That’s a completely different argument. The MLBPA doesn’t represent those rookie ball players, who actually need representation a lot more, but there’s no money for the union there, so they don’t even try. Even if the union gets everything they ask for, those rookie ball players won’t see a dime. The owners did make arrangements for lodging for them this year, which is a significant expense.
Whoopie! Some perspective here. People training to be teachers not only don’t get paid to go to college but have to pay for the training. After paying for four years, they get a starting salary of between $27,274 (Montana) and $51,539 if they get hired. They get the added benefit of being blamed for every social ill. Sorry, as much as I like baseball, baseball players and baseball owners are grossly over-compensated while many of the people who do valuable work in society are underpaid.
Sir you got onto a site for MLB rumors. You realize that right? Would you like to debate minimum wage here as well?
Boggles the mind , why they couldn’t hammer out a deal long ago. Almost as if both sides knew it would come to this but neither really care. Why?
One side knew it was come to this. The side that locked the players out then didn’t negotiate for six weeks. The side that has made only incremental movements in the talks. The side that created todays false deadline. The side that started today’s negotiations with a threat to lose a month. That the side is the owners.
That’s right, the side with ALL the power and history on their side. That’s correct.
Yeah, but that history of power led to strong unionization, which has roots in socialism, so not sure I’d be celebrating too much, my friend.
Wow….strrrrrrrrrrrrrretch!!!!
One side stockpiled royalties knowing they would not negotiate. Oh sorry, that would be the players and does not fit your narative. That would be the side that got locked out and then chose to wait six weeks for talks to start, instead of jump starting them.
You are right, the MLBPA stockpiled royalties knowing that the owners would not negotiate. They were correct, because the owners have not negotiated in good faith. The players had made a proposal covering all the major core economic points just prior to December 1st. Instead of responding to the players proposal, the owners locked the players out and then waited 6 weeks to respond. Why in the world would the players make another proposal, when it was up to the owners to respond to the one the players had already made?
Greed
$2 billion dollars. That is the gap between the players and the owners. The players salaries went down the past 5 years and the owners revenue went up 30%. This is going to be a long process and the owners are going to have to feel some serious pain in terms of lost revenue from regular season games lost before they come to the decision that having baseball and a little less share of the revenue is better than no baseball and ZERO revenue.
what ever happened to the “Love of the Game” its time for the fans to take the game back. For every game that the season is delayed, we the fans should boycott the same time. if the league starts May 1, the fans will boycott until mid-June. this is America’s pass time and the game belongs to us!
Agree on that!!
They won’t get one cent from me. But they haven’t gotten any revenue from me for 15 or so years.
You haven’t watched a single game of any kind in 15 years? You don’t own a single baseball hat?
@bluesteele I watched. Just didn’t pay. Get all my clothing including hats ay thrift stores etc. Haven’t had cable since streaming. However I my statement was incorrect. I forget about food. I will occasionally buy something to eat or drink if priced reasonably. So they have received revenue from me.
So you are saying you neither watch games, nor listen to them? Eyeballs on games = $$$ to MLB.
well if we somehow organized even a bit of a boycott it would send a message to the MLB and the Union. without the fans ghe Keane doesn’t exist! No money for anyone.
It’s been almost 30 years since we had a work stoppage. I think we can handle it.
You got your new Halo game and your Halo show is coming out in a few weeks. Who needs baseball.
I’ve never played Halo.
I’ve played Uncharted. All the Zelda games. But never Halo.
It was good in the day, no idea hownit is now. Just a lame joke while showing support of your statement. I figured you are most likely a Angels fan and not the video game franchise.
Yes… I’m an Angel fan, but I have been asked about the game Halo on more than one occasion. I don’t know anything about the game.
absolutely right. it’s the game, not necessarily the level it’s played at. I’m fortunate that I live within 12 miles of 2 university teams. Excellent high school games and 90 minutes from indy league games. When MLB comes back, I’ll tune in.
Management receives gross revenues out of which they pay their costs of doing business including player contracts at all levels, stadium costs, etc. players only pay personal income tax. So if owners receive 55% but pay 70% of that to run the business, their take net revenue before taxes is a lot less. Then they pay tax on the “profit”.
We know for certain from the two teams that are owned by publicly held companies and have to have provide quarterly and annual statements that are accessible to anyone, that outside of player salaries, stadium leases that average less then $2 million per season, and debt service the teams are paying less then 3% of total revenue on average for all other personnel costs including minor league player salaries. For the Braves that was $16 million. or less than the cost of Charlie Morton. Travel averages less than 2% of revenue. No team is allowed to carry debt service in excess of 10% of total revenue per season, so we know that is not a huge factor either. The fact is the teams are making huge profits on quickly growing revenue.
Hold the line, owners. You already know that the season could be completely cancelled and that the country would hardly care or even notice (because baseball is culturally irrelevant) and you also know that you could easily find much better ROI’s than MLB. MLB players are already spoiled and treated great for playing a game with a stick and a ball and mittens 7-8 months per year and you know it. Lifetime benefits after 6 weeks on a MLB roster, many of them receive signing bonuses (frequently major bonuses) before ever playing their first professional game, entry level salary is in the top 1% of incomes, average salary (more than $4 million!!!) is in the top 1/10th of 1% of incomes, playoff bonuses, awards bonuses, daily food allowance, free tickets for friends and family, luxury hotels, luxury travel accommodations, etc. Enough is enough- stop being weak and stop allowing MLBPA to make you look like chump pushovers. Hold the line! Stop giving in!! BREAK THE MLBPA UNION!!!
No one reads anything this long
Maybe you don’t, but some people do.
At least we have the NFL offseason to look forward to. Free agency, trades, draft upcoming.
If they played the super bowl in the field behind my barn I wouldn’t watch. Would have them leave.
It never makes any sense to compare players percentage of gross revenue.
Football teams travel 8 times a year? Baseball teams travel 27 times a year and spend 81 nights in hotels? Not to mention. football uses a stadium 16 times in a year. Not 162. And how many minor league teams are there in football?
So whenever people talk about inflation, or a percentage of revenue, I basically consider them stooges for their side.
Baseball Players probably get a huge percentage of the operating profits. But unfortunately, we don’t know what those profits are. People talk about how much a piece of the pie players should get and don’t know anything about the size of the pie.
Welcome to the internet and the land where everyone thinks they are an expert.
We know for sure from the teams that have open books that travel cost the teams $7-8 million per season. Travel for the Yankees is not different than it is for the Braves or Rays or Angels. Leases on ballparks average less then $2 million per season. You are certainly acting like a stooge for your side without knowing any of the facts. We know what the total pie is. Its not hard to figure out. We know what ticket sales and average ticket prices are. We know what the national TV deals are. We know what local TV deals are worth. We know how much baseball is making from MLB Network and how many streaming and subscriber clients it has and the price of the streaming and subscriber services. The only things we don’t know exactly is the amount that teams get for being part owners of the RSN they are broadcast on and the national sponsorship money, although about 70% of the deals are publicly announced. MLB is a $12 billion revenue generating industry. MLB players earned $4.17 billion in salaries, per diem, and other benefits. That was 38% of total MLB revenue.
Dodgertown in Vero Beach is available!!!
I don’t know if I have any respect for the MLBPA, since the I read the medical staff for the Florida Lockout Camp include Dr. Ben Casey, Dr. Marcus Welby and Doctor Vinnie BooBats.
That is a hilarious post. In the midst of all this seriousness, we needed some levity. Thank you.
There may not be a boycott but I’m done til 2023. Going to enjoy college and the minors instead.
Seems like this should have been done on Jan 28th, not Feb 28th.
It seems kinda crazy they wait until the last minute to sit at the table.
You would figure their job is to work every day until this is resolved.
I’m not a fan of unions in general but I applaud the lengths the MLBPA is going to for the players. I think there is a lot of posturing by the owners and the players should continue to call their bluff to get to actual sincere negotiations. At some point the owners will start to feel some pain.
Prov
Generically, young players get “relatively” screwed.
With 12 teams making the playoffs, if four to six teams want to blow past the cap, with reasonable penalties, they should be able to.
The MLBPA seems prepared to do what they need to do. Good. I don’t want to miss any baseball, but the long-term health of the sport is more important.
MLBN, the evil TV channel of owners, has reported both sides continue to negotiate, and the owners have ordered dinner delivered. That’s a good sign. That means they’re in for the long haul and they must see some areas of compromise.
I suspect it’s going to come down to this: The owners want a 14 team postseason and an international draft, and the players want a significant bump in the CBT and a higher minimum for their younger players. Both sides will give in on those issues and a deal will be made. Unfortunately, that means a 14-team postseason.
So…perhaps it’s time for a petition that’s been hanging around for a couple of weeks to finally snowball…!
chng.it/m8rLjtnB
Please send the link down the line to your baseball buddies and contacts.
I mean really, what is a change.org petition going to do?
Well, silence accomplishes absolutely nothing. The hope is that fans sign and then STICK to no financial support until these participants get their act together!!
Glad they are going with a facility which should help for camaraderie and helping to get them ready with a better chance of staying healthy. But f#%* this CBAsituation with both parties (though I place more blame on the owners the mlbpa still has a part in it
I sympathize with labor unions.
MLBPA is not really a union at all. It’s a club in which agent firms are allowed to collude.
It’s morphed from taking care of its members into shaking down its own tree with ridiculous demands.
For me, I have to treat baseball as my bad addiction I will try to break myself from.