April 12: The Pirates have now formally announced the deal.
April 9: The full breakdown of the deal, per Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, is as follows: Hayes will earn $10MM in 2022 and 2023, $7MM in each of the next four years, followed by an $8MM salary in 2028 and 2029. The 2030 club option is worth $12MM and comes with a $6MM buyout.
April 7: The Pirates took a major step toward locking up their young core this afternoon, inking third baseman Ke’Bryan Hayes to an eight-year, $70MM extension, reports Robert Murray of Fansided. The deal, which represents both the largest guarantee ever given to a player with between one and two years of service time and the largest deal ever handed out by the Pirates, will keep Hayes in Pittsburgh through at least 2029. It also includes a club option for the 2030 season, the terms of which are not yet clear. Hayes is represented by The Ballengee Group.
The deal buys out three years of the third baseman’s free agency, which would have arrived at the conclusion of the 2026 season barring an unforeseen demotion. Hayes, who is entering his age-25 season in 2022, will now remain under team control through his age-32 (or age-33, should the Pirates exercise his option) season. While he could still be in line for a solid payday at that point should he remain productive, today’s extension is likely to cover the great majority of his prime years — meaning that his $70MM guarantee is likely to constitute a majority of his career earnings.
Since being promoted to the big leagues midway through the pandemic-shortened 2020 season, Hayes has been one of the few bright spots for a moribund Pirates franchise, slashing a world-beating .376/.442/.682 across 95 plate appearances across 24 games that September. His numbers came back to earth in 2021, perhaps as a result of an early-season wrist injury that held him out of action for roughly a third of the year and sapped him of much of his power. In his short career, Hayes has posted a .280/.340/.442 triple-slash in 491 trips to the plate while playing high-end defense at third, winning the 2021 Fielding Bible Award for third basemen (edging out stalwarts Matt Chapman and Nolan Arenado).
While keeping Hayes (the son of long-time big-leaguer Charlie Hayes) around for the long term is sure to promote some optimism within the long-suffering Pittsburgh fanbase, few expect the Bucs to contend in the immediate future. After losing 101 games in 2021, GM Ben Cherington hardly re-loaded in the offseason, trading for infielder Josh VanMeter and signing first baseman Daniel Vogelbach, outfielder Jake Marisnick, and reliever Heath Hembree to low-cost free agent deals while trading starting catcher Jacob Stallings to the Marlins for right-hander Zach Thompson and a pair of minor leaguers. The club does have a series of high-end prospects on the horizon, however, including recently optioned 6’7″ shortstop Oneil Cruz and right-hander Roansy Contreras, both of whom are likely to see big-league action sooner than later. Second baseman Nick Gonzalez and righty Quinn Priester could also see the majors in 2022, while catcher Henry Davis (the top overall pick in the 2021 draft) is probably a year or two away.
Cherington’s success in locking up Hayes for the foreseeable future draws attention to questions surrounding the future of center fielder Bryan Reynolds, the other high-end talent on the Bucs’ active roster. Reynolds, who proved his 2020 struggles a fluke to the tune of a .302/.390/.522 triple-slash in 2021, is under club control through his age-30 season in 2025, reportedly turned down a number of extension proposals ahead of the 2021 season and didn’t re-engage with the club between the end of the season and the implementation of the lockout. He’s been the subject of endless trade rumors — he’s been directly linked to the Padres and Marlins this offseason — but Pittsburgh’s asking price is (understandably) sky-high. Even if they continue to go year-to-year with Reynolds (presently a Super Two, he’ll earn either $4.25MM or $4.9MM in 2022, depending on the outcome of an in-season arbitration hearing), the Bucs can expect their All-Star outfielder to play alongside their high-end up-and-coming talent for at least a few years before hitting the open market.
Indeed, while Hayes’ extension gives the Pirates the kind of cost certainty small-market clubs crave (as well as the potential for a boatload of surplus value), it isn’t likely to change their contention timetable. Even while competing in the NL Central, where the Cubs appear to be engaged in a mini-rebuild and neither the Brewers nor Cardinals seem to be interested in pushing all their chips in just yet, Pittsburgh isn’t likely to host October baseball for a few years yet.
That said, the unpredictability of prospect performance cuts in both directions, and the Pirates may have the sort of high-end prospect depth to take a big step forward as soon as 2023 — particularly if Cherington gets the go-ahead from ownership to add some payroll. At present, RosterResource projects the club to carry an Opening Day payroll of just $45MM (the lowest in Major League Baseball), and with almost nothing besides the Hayes extension committed beyond 2022. For a fanbase that hasn’t seen a meaningful game since losing the 2015 NL Wild Card Game (and still haunted by the 1992 NLCS), knowing the Bucs will hold onto their star third baseman for the bulk of his prime is likely the best news they’ve heard in a while.
{Note: Hayes left this afternoon’s game against the Cardinals with an apparent hand injury. Murray tweets that Hayes’ extension is still subject to a physical. Murray reports that Hayes suffered only a “very minor” cramp, and there’s no indication it’ll have any bearing on the long-term deal.}
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Highest paid Pirate ever now.
Idk some of those somolian ones make a lot.
Well the ones that know enough to leave Tom Hanks alone do.
I’m the Captain now!
Lol, Eric Cartman has entered the chat.
Fantastic
I thought you were talking about simoleons — i.e., dollars — and couldn’t figure out what you meant, until I realized you meant Somalian; i.e., from Somalia.
Lol I thought the same thing at first, until I was able to take a second and put it into context. Nice to see I’m not the only gamer here lol. Hey man, 70-something likes is remarkable. That should be in the comment Hall of Fame. If there isn’t one, that should start it off.
This being the largest deal ever handed out by the Pirates says a lot.
Says a lot about Pirates ownership and the completely lopsided economic system MLB & MLBPA collude on to keep small market teams from competing on a level playing field as their beloved Yankees/Dodgers/Red Sox.
Thankfully an economic advantage can be overcome by having a bigger brain as the Rays have shown.
What a crap take. These owners are billionaires. Don’t tell me they can’t afford to spend money
They can spend money. But a business must be self sustaining. The owners don’t pay the players out of their own pockets, salary comes from profit. Do you need an elementary school lesson on business?
Scott K: Quite the opposite. Actually, the entire system is set up FOR small market teams. To cater to their needs, to tip the scales in their favor through a persistent flow of never ending, inexpensive draft talent selections & revenue sharing.
They also receive this regardless of whether they perform well, whether they spend the money or keep it, & have more control over more young stars during the prime stages of their careers, at a clearance-rack price.
The small markets are what hold MLB back. They are what creates the imbalance of prospects & the need for large markets to spend still. True competitive balance would not award higher draft picks, extra built-in draft picks, more overall draft picks to those small market teams. And then they double down and multiply the benefit when the respective team tanks for the season.
The Rays are good, but they have a whole lot of help from this design that feed them relentlessly…
Spoken like a true clueless Yankees fan.
If this system is not horribly broken why has only one of the eight small market teams won a WS in the last 29 years while the eight large market teams have won 17?
These teams have the wherewithal to poach the best front office personnel and coaches and the proof is in the pudding.Do you think that people like Chaim Bloom left a team like the Yankees to go to Tampa Bay?
Posters like you are not anywhere in touch with reality.This system is set up so the small market teams will stay in business and give teams like the Yankees a minor league system to draw from.It falsely gives hope to the fans of the small market teams so that fans like you can complain if your team only wins 89 games.It is an absolute shame that teams like the A’s have to do what they have done to even think that they can compete on any where like an equal basis.
It is what it is,designed for the wealthy teams to keep as many fans like you happy to propagate the sport.
Unfortunately,the MLB leadership do not realize that it is the major problem among others that has destroyed the competitive integrity of a once proud national pastime.
Says a lot about an owner that routinely takes tens of millions from revenue sharing and pockets them rather than paying players.
You think Milwaukee is a big market? They routinely outspend Nutting by tens of millions. Why? They use revenue sharing the right way.
Halos- Milwaukee has spent all of any money they get on Yelich’s contract.How has that worked out for them the last couple of years?
Your owner spent plenty of his money on Hamilton and Pujols.How did that work out for him?
I personally think that these wealthy teams and their fans resent these payments to the small market teams.They have no problem with poaching the best players and staff from them though.I would do it differently.
When free agents go from one team to another a “trade” should be in players and draft choices.This would force the good teams to determine whether it is worth it to sign someone.To make it more palatable to the union,the players could generally be from the minors,and from the majors only if the player will agree to it.It would be like an expansion draft.There would also be a mixture of draft choices traded.Also,all small market teams would get two more additional draft picks between the first and second rounds,while the mid level teams would get one.This would also put the teams on a much more equal competitive level.
Profit sharing could be reduced or eliminated,and you would get your wish.But then you wouldn’t be able to complain about anybody either.
This concept would not be approved by the large market teams because they want to win the WS 60% of the time like they have been for 29 seasons.But it was would give the teams that have won 3 1/2% of the time a much more equal playing field.
It would not be an advantage to teams who cannot scout or develop players,not those who make stupid investments like many or most of these big ticket free agents are.
But it would certainly greatly improve the competitive balance so teams like the A’s do not have to wholesale players like they have been doing.
Ya the Yankees just keep winning championships dude how are we gonna stop it
One in twenty years is 5%.
They will never have the dominance that they have historically shown.There are too many rich teams now.
Their % is close to all of the small market teams lumped together.
Fans like Scott have bought into that narrative hook, line and sinker.
It is reality, not a narrative in the case of baseball economic disparities among franchises. Large market population geography doesn’t entitle you to make the postseason most of the time in the other professional sports (exceptions for those ineptly run like former Mets owners shortly before selling). LAD, NYY and handful of others can get far more lucrative TV deals than their peers. Revenue sharing is a drop in the bucket as far as any true attempt to achieve competitive balance. Certain franchises can outspend mistakes, while others don’t have that luxury. Good news for those who take exception is that neither the league nor players will fundamentally change this since it makes both groups a lot of $$.
So let me get this straight, you contend MLB favors small market teams because they get an extra draft choice? Yeah, that more than offsets the hundreds of millions of $$$ teams like the Yankees receive in local TV, attendance, parking, etc.
You sir, are delusional. The reason your Yankees have played little brother to the Rays of late is because the Rays do a better job of developing talent, and managing their assets. Not to mention being on the cutting edge of game tactics, like shifting, bullpen usage, etc.
Just look how much better the Dodgers have done lately compared to the Yankees to see another more comparable example of why your team is no longer even close to the gold standard of MLB.
Not on every case. For example, Bob Nutting is the majority owner of Pirates, but he isn’t allowed to spend his own money to increase payroll without increasing his share of the team. The minority owners would not purposely decrease their share of team just to appease those of you who think throwing more money at a roster is the best way to improve a team.
Only narrative I’ve bought into is brains>money. See Rays vs Yankees, A’s vs Angels, Brewers vs Cubs, and Braves vs Mets & Phillies as examples of this narrative.
Scott- I do not disagree but the only team of the initial ones stated to have won a WS within the last thirty years is the mid size Braves.
WS winning teams need to have superstars and the small market teams normally cannot afford to have them.
The pirates got a deal hayes needs a new agent.
We have a pattern on this chatroom board…..
1. Complain that the small market teams are cheeeep. and their owners are scum. They won’t sign good players.
2. When one of their players signs a long-term deal say the player was dumb for signing it.
Part of that deal was his control years The Pirates overpaid some there, and got a deal on the years after. SOP.
These posters as as fickle as a a a a the guy who claims election fraud
8.1 million AVG per season, I think that is a discounted price to be honest. His offense may have come back to earth and there maybe concerns about his bat. Either way, it’s not expensive contract and A’s or Rays have made 10-14 million AVG offers before. I haven’t seen that from the Pirates. I think Reynolds could get as of right now, 12.3 million a year on 6 year contract. If he wins an award this year, it could uptick another 2-8 mill depending on award. Offensive reward like silver slugger or whatever can uptick the AVG salary to 14+ million over a gold glove which could push avg to 13 million. Pirates are probably low balling Reynolds with a similar Hayes type contract
You do understand that this buys out three “renewable” years where they could have basically paid him league minimum, right?
And yet he’s underpaid. Maybe he has the same agent as Acuna Jr.
He will be traded next July for Hosmer
Along with 2 of their top prospects.
No. You 2 kids aren’t running the Pirates FO.
That’s actually pretty funny!
Can’t hate on that for either side. Good piece of business. Hayes may be limiting his potential earnings, but this is rock-solidly safe in case he doesn’t develop into a star. Although it’s easy for me to look at Hayes’s profile and say I wouldn’t have signed it, I completely understand his (his agent’s) rationale.
Nah, I hate these contracts for the player. Signed too soon IMO. Being a young position player who’s had MLB success it makes almost no sense to sign a deal like this, this early unless the money is better or he doesn’t think he’ll get over the shoulder and wrist stuff that hurt him last year.
Otherwise, less than $10m a year for 8 years? No thanks, Hayes will earn that contract on defense alone through arb and his first few FA years.
Cool good thing he go 70 mil and you have 70 dollars lol
Arb doesn’t reward defense that much.
So you actually aren’t able to see the financial risk for the team? He has guaranteed money. He’s also been on the DL…IL… whatever, for a time every full season. Great deal both sides, he’ll be young enough to cash in later should he out preform the contract. Win…win.
What success?
Scott Kingrey would probably say take the deal
“Otherwise, less than $10m a year for 8 years? No thanks, Hayes will earn that contract on defense alone through arb and his first few FA years.”
Arb doesn’t even start for two more years, for the 2024 season. Three Arb years brings him to the 2027 season. They’re buying out three FA years that are five seasons away. A *lot* can happen and baseball history is littered with players who have played at Hayes’ level over their first two years and did very little after that.
If Hayes plays well and continues to develop, Pirates make out great. But it’s still a huge gamble for a team that doesn’t like to spend money to give $70 million to a guy who has played a grand total of 120 games in the bigs.
You can say it’s too early but go and look at the all the guys who turned down these types of contracts and you will find out many missed the boat. 70 million is life changing money so you can’t say he left 100 million on the table if he gets hurt and stops getting better. He has the money now no matter what and he will get another contract if he’s good for 4 or 5 years and another 50 to 100 million so lets put things in perspective, you can’t spend money you don’t have so he took care of his family for life regardless of what happens.
Average Joe, he won’t earn that if he has a career ending injury or his career falls flat. He is now set for life. People that complain about these deals are so short-sighted.
Ever hear the story of Gregory Polanco?
5/35 contract by the Pirates. Huge potential as prospect and first called up. Ended up being so worthless no one would take on his contract at the end. Partly due to injuries too. But that’d never happen with another player…
I’d say Hayes is winning this no matter how well he plays, because he’ll cash in on his 2nd contract if he’s a true star.
Dude just has to be average and the Pirates still make out like bandits. What a bad deal for the Hayes if he even comes close to reaching his potential.
I’d take a deal like this in a heartbeat as a player. How much money you need? Your family is set for generations at age 24
Generations huh? These guys lack discipline. They will be broke soon enough.
@winslow nice job lumping every player in with the minority
What do you mean by “these guys”?
You made it a racial issue not me. “These guys” as in young. Fixed it for you.
LOL!!
Oh ok. How many millions did you waste in your 20s? And how much have you saved since?
he’s the son of a longtime MLB player. I’m pretty sure he knows what he’s doing.
Winslow, he didn’t make it a racial issue you twit. He means minority as in rare. Good grief people have no common sense.
‘You made it a racial issue not me. “These guys” as in young. Fixed it for you.’
Who said anything about it being racial? You did. How come?
@Winslow And at what age, in your esteemed estimation, will he not be undisciplined enough to not be blowing all his money, like every other young person does (at least according to you in all your wisdom of every young person in the world)?
Cause, FYI, he’s not getting all the money upfront. He will still be getting paid millions into his 30’s.
his dad is Charlie Hayes so maybe it’s not all about the money? His dad’s net worth is $10 million, per the all-knowing internet
edit: I put his dad’s last name as Morton, out of habit.
I wonder how many people in their real lives ever think they are being paid too much. No, don’t give me a raise. It’s more than I need! Exactly none, that’s how many.
Yet this how ballplayers are expected to think? Disconnect city!
@BlueSkies, We must hang out with different type of people. I have known lots of people who turned down money because they valued other things. I have known people who left high paying careers to pursue other interests that were more important to them. Not everyone is in love with money. I doubt many people on their deathbed regret not making more money.
Need examples? How about AJ Burnett turning down his option with Phillies so he cold play his final season with hie friends on the Pirates? Took a payout of approximately 50%. Another example is the cast of Big Bang Theory: “In March 2017, the main cast members (Galecki, Parsons, Cuoco, Helberg, and Nayyar) took a 10 percent pay cut to allow Bialik and Rauch an increase in their earnings.” (wikipedia). Not everything is about getting the most money possible.
You avoided the point. I am not talking about anyone who changes careers, for whatever reason. Have you ever known anyone who was offered a raise in a career they actually hoped to pursue, and turned it down? Have you ever done it yourself? It’s a very rare occurrence, and never in my experience have I ever heard anyone say they were being paid too much. That was my point. The other is that ballplayers are often singled out for their desire to achieve as much financial security as their ability provides, as if this is some kind of aberrant behavior, when it’s what people do almost without exception.
@BlueSkies, yes, I know such people and, yes, I have. I gave you examples of it happening in baseball and in television, but you elect to ignore them.
Exactly. He’s going to be a millionaire the rest of his life and if invested correctly, he will have over 200 million by the time he retires from baseball. He could make another 50 to 100 million on his next contact depending how well he does in his walk year. It’s easy to poke holes at him but he has 70 million reasons to sign.
Exactly. He’s one signature away from financial security for generations, one injury from leaving the game with nothing.
Exactly. This takes the guess work out of it for him. He can play a game for the next 8 years, retire, and live out the rest of his life doing whatever he wants if he wants to.
Although with the price of inflation these days he may actually turn broke like Winslow had predicted lol
Not really. We don’t know the full economic break down of the deal yet like AAV or how of it has been deferred til 2060. All this really does is buy out his first two years of free agency while giving him and the team cost certainty over arbitration
It actually buys out 3 years of FA
He currently was under control for 5 more years
It also gives the team club control for a 9th year meaning he could control him through his age 33 season
It means that his potential career earnings could be low by star baseball standards bc very few mid 30s players get big deals these days but deferred or not it’s still the kind of money that is pretty life changing and when you are this far away from FA it’s hard to say no to that bc you never know what can happen…
You are basing everything on him still ascending, not getting hurt and become a super star. I think you will see many teams starting to offer huge contracts after year 1. The Tigers will have the same issues moving forward with Casey Mize, Tarik Skubal, Matt Manning, Spencer Torkelson, Riley Greene. If all these players put up some good numbers this year, the Tigers better start offering these players 7 and 8 year contracts now to get cost control or they will have to start trading these players like Tampa does. Hitting on top prospects is great and keeping them is even better.
Eh it’s only 3 years of FA and probably gives him good value on arb seasons
He’s a late-bloomer at 25 and his MiLB stats don’t light the world on fire. This buys out four pre- free-agency years and four or five post. Not saying he will but he could be a complete bust this year and be a non-tender candidate the next. Fair deal for both sides.
Goat, there is considerable risk both ways on a long-term contract for a young player. If he achieves his full potential, this would turn out to be a very club-friendly contract. But if he gets hurt or doesn’t play well, he’s still ultra-rich. How can you blame the guy?
Seems like a fair deal. He wasn’t hitting free agency until he was 30. Just banked 70 million dollars no matter what happens.
He obviously liked the deal or he wouldn’t have signed it. I love hearing all the armchair agents dissing the deal.
God forbid somebody have an opinion on something, right? Are you going to say this the next time somebody weighs in on a weird trade next?
Exactly. There are multiple ways of viewing things.
Really, I think both ways are right here. He almost certainly left money on the table if he plays at his current level, especially if he continues to improve.
However, $80,000,000 is a ton of money to turn down when you’re one injury away from $0.
Bryan did what he thought was best for him. You might’ve done something differently. It’s a personal choice.
I remember a quote from Mike Trout’s agent when people were saying Trout left money on the table when he signed his first long-term deal: “Never turn down your first fortune.”
jdgoat, maybe don’t whine about a player accepting a contract they’re happy with and no one will call you out on a poor opinion that has no basis in reality?
He may be average if he his wrist doesn’t heal. Pirates are betting on it being fine but it definitely wasn’t last year and still wasn’t this spring.
A bird in your hand is worth more than two in the bush.
jdgoat: Yeah, he made such a TERRIBLE DECISION to accept $70,000,000.00 for his age 25-33 years.
Looks like to me he’s likely going to leave a lot of money on the table that he otherwise would have made had he not signed this deal… that’s the point. Obviously he might bust but he’s already shown a pretty high floor so I think it was a little foolish not to bet on himself. Gives off the same vibes as Albies deal.
Idk I mean it really depends
Let’s say he’s good but not great… Looking at what those guys get in arb maybe his career earnings hitting FA would have been around 20-25 mil (for comp purpose looking at guys from this fa class that didn’t extend and what they earned in their 6 years of service time conforto earned 26 mil pre fa, Semien earned 24 mil, Canha earned 15 mil, Taylor earned 18 mil)
So assuming he has a non elite career track, that seems like a good estimate… So he’d need to get better than 3/45-50 to make it play out from an aav stance…
Interpret that how you will and sure it’s possible that he ends up better than all of them but also those aren’t exactly scrub players either
He’ll likely outplay the contract by the end of Year 3.
Average players do not make $70M in their careers.
Wow. Its nice to see the Bucs make this move to retain one of their young core long term. Now they need O’Neil and a few other highly regarded prospects up and let them play. Their fans deserve to have a team to be excited about again.
Does he have the same agent as Albies?
Do you not understand that you have to get six years of service time before becoming a free agent?
I think you missed the point.
I didn’t miss the point at all. You’re acting as if he has other offers to consider at this time. He does not. Some younger players want financial security.
Poor kid.
Rich kid.
He was always a rich kid. Dad made $15 million over 20 years ago.
I have no words for the happiness I am feeling today.
Good for you. Pirates are the only team in the division I don’t hate. My dad loved the We Are Family team more than the redbirds
Thank you Yadi.That is a classy thing to say.
But please,please never let Wainwright pitch against the Pirates ever again.
I think that his record against them is 83 and 3..
Reynolds next?
I think it will take at least double this to get Reynolds done.
Won’t happen mostly because of Reynolds.
Hopefully, but Reynolds should be in no hurry, and frankly the Pirates don’t have to be either.
Yeah I’m not sure how to act right now. The Pirates not only spent money but seem to have spent it wisely.
Figured you would be, @mlb1225.
I’m starting to look at line drive rates because of one of your posts in re Hayes & some of the other Pirates young hitters. I think you are on to something.
Typically I’m not very good at figuring out “value” in terms of baseball contracts. So. Wondering what your take is in re the dollars.
Thanks.
Kid must really like pierogies
I love them… but really anything I can eat with hot sauce and sour cream works for me.
Ok now bring up and extend oneil cruz
Less than 50 ABs above double A, it’s a little premature. Let him crush at triple for a few months, then bring him up.
His agent did him wrong. Less than $9m per year and he will be past his prime when its over.
His father is former mlb player charlie hayes. Im pretty sure his father was very influential in this deal. Not the agent. Agent’s usually steer players to greedy levels of pay. See Boras, Scott.
I believe the player is likely ecstatic today on this deal. The financial security here is real. The question of how the player feels in 3 years will need to be answered. If he blossoms, he’ll feel underpaid. If not, he’ll forever point to today as the best decision he ever made.
desertbull; As someone else stated earlier: You do realize that he doesn’t become a free agent until after his 6th year, right? The Pirates could’ve paid him whatever they chose (at least league minimum) for 2 more yrs. Then he’d get 3 yrs of arbitration, in which the 1st 2 are underpaid for the production. So, did he leave some money on the table? Most likely the answer is Yes. Was it by an egregious amount? No.
He was going to make around $750k over each of the next two years, then start making millions in Arb after that *if* he plays well. Lots of players never even get a ‘prime’ and there’s no guarantee Hayes will continue developing. He’s taking a huge raise today at the *potential* expense of a few million dollars five years from now when he would have hit FA.
$9 million now and next season, invested properly, could be worth a lot more in five years, too.
Smart deal by the Pirates. Lock up talented players early as a way to save money. Sure, the kid is perhaps sacrificing the chance at some future bigger dollars, and he’s perhaps locked himself into mostly perennial losing, but $70M is something most people don’t walk away from. He’s set for life.
Pirates have been doing this forever, though. if the player ends up good like McCutchen or Marte they get traded when the deal gets near the expensive years at the end. If the player stinks they just suck it up and hope someone bites….. like Tabata and Polanco. I guarantee if he’s playing really good baseball around year 5 or 6 he gets traded for more PROSPECTS. It’s the Pirate way.
Don-Tampa does it also.
And Oakland.
Such is the lot of small market teams unless they want to hamstring themselves with very high salaries and underperforming players.
If they get five or six good years out of him and THEN trade him for prospects, they’ll have done very well for themselves.
Lol and Pads Fans/outinleftfield/impressionsplus said he had a better chance of dating Bella Hadid than the Pirates do of extending any of their good young players.
Let’s goooo!
Nuttin just spent!
Is this all a result of the new CBA, with these smaller and mid market clubs signing their players to extensions that are cheap for bigger clubs but represent these clubs’ biggest commitments ever?
Also, not to nitpick, but the Pirates’ largest contract ever is really still Jason Kendall’s 6 year/$60M deal.
Modern Equivalent Value of the Kendall deal would be about 6 years/$80M.
Or 8 years/$106M if we’re doing equivalent years on the equivalent dollars.
If Hayes has a Kendall career that’s a big win. He had a nice career
Good call ElGuapo. The Bucs would be turning somersaults if they get Kendall production out of Hayes.
Not sure I want Kendall production put of a corner infielder. Hard comping with catchers and that skillet value.
Interesting. Glad it happened, but Hayes last season no doubt factored into him excepting this deal.
Not a Pirates fan but good for them, a long term commitment at last, hopefully they’ll figure out something with Reynolds. Too bad they didn’t retain Stallings, really good catcher.
It was a good deal for both, so many fail, failing with $70 mil is a good way to be. If he exceeds the expectations then pirates can always build around or trade an underpaid asset for a slew of prospects later. Win for both. Won’t kill the pirates if he fails as long as it’s not to heavily backloaded.
Let’s go. Step in the right direction, let’s keep Reynolds around and actually hit on some prospects and build a real team.
Generally not a fan of these deals (they disincentive sometimes), but the dollars are reasonable, considering his offensive ceiling might be more 2021 than 2020. Good player (as was his dad, if under-appreciated), excellent glove, and Lord knows the Bucs can use the PR.
Nice. Pittsburgh is a great sports town. Deserves a good team.
Hopefully they continue to build.
you’re saying 8.75M AAV for 8 years is the biggest contract in pirates history….
The best transaction they’ve made since acquiring Reynolds. Hayes doesn’t have to carry the team but he’s a great young talent to build around. Both sides are gambling a little, Hayes’s wrist injury is the reason for that, but all in all a good move for both sides.
Wait. When did the Bucs acquire Harry Ford?
I was waiting for this one lol
The Bucs, churning out an assembly line of talent… whoops, that’s Harry’s brother, Henry Ford.
Got him at a price to where if his arm falls off it isn’t going to cripple the team’s future. But at a price that will give him a decent amount. I’m guessing there are probably some bonuses there for things like games played, Gold Glove candidate and stuff too..
Next,Reynolds. Clearly we are not afraid of commitment and are willing to put some money out there. Come help take us to the super bowl!
Not a pirates fan either but it’s a great sign and possible harbinger of things to come if all these prospects come up and produce with a few free agents sprinkled in you may have a playoff team in a few years with a fairly low payroll and plenty money to sign or trade for an other star player or 2! Good for Pirates, good for baseball….
It’s funny how much more baseball players make. If this was hockey he would be in the top 5 or 10% of the league money wise. Top 3 or 4 guys get 10-12 a yr superstars get 8-9.5 a yr, I guess when u play double the games there’s alot more to go around
Murphy NFLD: Yeah, but then again look at the salaries for the stars of the NBA and NFL. Compared to them or actors (actresses) the MLB players are underpaid.
NBA and NHL are star driven leagues.
@Murphy I can’t remember the last time I’ve read a hockey article or seen a game on TV. Going to the occasional game is fun but that’s the extent of it. Less eyeballs, less ad dollars.
Who’s Harry Ford?
The only way this ends up as a “bad’ deal is if he ends up being the best 3rd baseman in the game — which at this point appears to still have some possibility. Should fans care about that?
It ONLY ends up being bad for the Pirates if he gets injured and is well, WELL below league average for the bulk of it. And that’s only the out years. Should fans care about that?
Im surprised he took this deal, but it’s life changing money at a young age. It’s not that surprising he took the deal.
Moribund
Long suffering
Hardly reloaded
Only brightspot
Cruz demotion (mind you 38 AAA ABs in career)
Cant even get the name if the #1 overall draft pick name right?
Citing Bob NightenTale tweets as “rumors” of reynolds trades (newsflash: gms call other gms and inquire every day. Its their jobs. If thats rumored trades, my god in heaven)
Garbage, biased writing. How about bringing up the Archer trade next?
Fact of the matter, while the team may not contend this year, that system has rapidly been converted and rolling deep. Deep as in arguably the #1 system in baseball. Maybe get off your beat-the-dead-horse beat and find different adjectives.
**Henry Davis, not Harry Ford
You are correct! Just a 2021-first-round-catcher brain-slip. Now fixed.
Kind of odd that they haven’t bent over backwards to lock up Reynolds, who’s proven himself, and decided to go this route with Hayes, who’s only shown flashes. I get the age difference but this is the organization that extended Polanco too soon.
Really hard to understand the Pirates. As a fan, yeah, I’ll bite. It’s exciting if it all pans out. And in the next breath, I’ll wonder why another exciting player like Cruz is sent down
To be fair, for all we know the Pirates have been pushing for a Reynolds’s extension. But the fact is that Reynolds should feel no urgency to sign any extension unless he is absolutely bowled over by an offer, and the Pirates don’t need to rush because they still control him for years and (as far as we know) haven’t burned any bridges yet with Bryan.
People are comparing the Hayes deal to Reynolds’ situation, which I get, but the better comparison would be to compare the Hayes deal to the Gregory Polanco contract because of the similarity of where they were in their careers, Obviously the Polanco deal didn’t end so well… but it didn’t cripple the Pirates financially either. Sure, they ended up carrying Gregory a year or two longer than they otherwise might have because of the contract. But Polanco’s virtual collapse is hopefully the outlier and not a sign that Hayes will be Polanco 2.0.
@Monkey’s Uncle, I remember the promise of Polanco and the flashes he demonstrated in his limited opportunities early on. The kid looked like a natural, to be sure, but the exuberance to lock him in at that particular point lacked common sense, as does this decision
To be truthful, have we really seen enough on the offensive end to envision him as the “cornerstone?” (And I say this as someone who truly *wants* him to be that guy)
To me, locking up Reynolds made more sense and was more of that proven, cornerstone type. This move was just another instance of jumping the gun. From all reports, the Pirates farm system is now one of the top 3 and as such I can only wonder why the rush?
I honestly can respect your argument, it makes perfect sense. I just think that a team like the Pirates with such a relatively limited budget can’t take many risks, but must make certain calculated risks in planning for the future. This is one, and it doesn’t at all preclude them from being able to extend Reynolds. Reynolds has already reached arbitration so of course he’s going to be very, very choosy about an extension. Hayes was more amenable because he figures I’ll take the pay raise now versus possibly underselling myself later. If Hayes can just stay injury-free (well, scratch that, he’s already hurt, how about relatively injury free?)… stay on the field, play his stellar defense, and hit even league average at third, I won’t feel like this was a mistake.
Agree 100% and makes me wonder what happens when stars of tomorrow start making their way to the Pirates and showing flashes. What do you pay Cruz? Gonzalez? Priester? Davis? Others? I mean, all of these guys have a collectively high ceiling. It’s going to be very interesting to watch
Great contract. Hayes’ defense is worth this much. Whatever the Bucs get out of his bat is essentially free. If he continues to play great defense and hits say .270 with 15 HR/10 SB, and maybe 75 Runs/75 RBI, this is fantastic. As for Reynolds, if he won’t sign an extension, the Bucs should get him for the next four years for $40 mil ($4.9 + 8.1 + 12 + 15 = $40) thru his age 30 season. Also, a bargain. Reynolds is probably worth 6 years $72-78 mil) He won’t sign for that, though.
Of course, these are just guess-timations of what Reynolds will get in arbitration. The question is: do the Bucs want him for roughly $40 mil for 4 years (ages 27-30 seasons at $10 mil AAV) and trade him at the 2025 deadline (which could be what he wants); or, do they want to buy out two years of his free agency, which would require a large extension likely in the neighborhood of $72-78 mil (covering his ages 27-32 seasons at $12-13 mil AAV). Is he worth an extra $32-38 mil for his ages 31-32 seasons? I’d love for them to sign him long-term, but will they? Should they? IDK.
Harry Ford?!?
And 40% of the room still doesn’t understand how arb works
Ok its official one inning into the Pirates season good decision by Hayes
*sigh*
Such is life as a Pirates fan. Hopefully it’s precautionary.
LOL!
will be on a team for the next 8 years and never be in the playoffs, poor kid, was kinda dumb on his part not to test the market.
In 4 years+, Amanda?
That’s a measly $8.75MM per year. He will regret signing such a long contract for what is essentially a pittance.
Oh yeah! Poor guy is guaranteed to be a multi millionaire in his 20’s! “Measly $8.75 million per year!?” Yeah, the bread line awaits with that “pittance” of a salary.” Get real!
It’s professional baseball. 3Bs who put up the numbers he’s capable of make 2x-3x what he’ll make.
If he spends only enough to supply his daily needs and invests the rest in an index fund, he’ll have a lot more when the contract expires.
out of the game with a wrist injury prior to the physical he needed to take to make the extension official
I think that the Pirates did this for PR purposes.Hayes probably will be a good player but he seems injury prone.He has proven his defense but not his hitting.
They are 50 % on these type of contracts,winning Cutch and Marte and losing Tabata and Polanco.
I personally would have waited a year.
Or maybe even one game.
Maybe even one inning
@Mendoza Line I like this type of contract because the Bucs are not shelling out hundreds of millions of dollars. Cutch’s Contract in 2012 was for 6 years and $51.5 mil. The Bucs had Cutch for his entire prime for a very team-friendly contract. In 2014, the Bucs signed Marte for 6 years and $31 mil. Again, they had Marte for his entire prime for another team-friendly contract. These two guys then signed for bigger contracts after their prime years. Win-Win. In 2016, Polanco was signed for 5 years and $35 mil. Due to the horrendous injuries he sustained from that ugly slide into 2B in September 2018, Polanco was never the same after that, but he was having a pretty solid career up to that point. Still, a $7 mil AAV is not a franchise destroying contract. Tabata’s contract in 2011 was of this type, but for only 6 years and $14.5 mil. Hardly worth mentioning if you aren’t the Pirates. In 2022, 8 years and $70 mil is fiscally responsible for a player of his defensive acumen, even if he doesn’t become an offensive force. I like it. I doubt the Bucs will get one of these contracts done with Reynolds. He’s older than the other guys were when they signed those contracts.
BB-What you say is accurate and thorough.Contracts like this are basically a risk both for the player and the team.Whether or not they are offered and signed have to do with an aversion to risk.The more conservative one is the less chance for a contract to a very young and unestablished player.I honestly think that the Pirates are using this as a PR move as much as anything much like the Phillies did with Bryce Harper.It is designed to give their fans hope that it is the first step in returning to competitiveness.But even in this day $70M is a very lot of money especially to a small market team.There are no guarantees so the Pirates are taking a leap of faith.
As to the posters who question whether Hayes should have done this deal,I ask them,would you have turned down the opportunity to become wealthy?
There are no guarantees on any player. Older guys are probably more risky since their skills decline and they become more brittle. I’d rather invest in someone 25 than someone that is 30.
Surprising since his dad was a pro. I figured he’d hold out for mega bucks
Is his hand broken? That didn’t look good in todays game. He couldn’t grip anything.
They’re saying it was “spasms” in his arm.
Good for him…. That’s how you rob an organization lol
Ok I’ve seen it all now. The kid’s hand slightly touched and slid across the groomed turf. As an owner of Hayes in Roto I’m dealing him as soon as he has a hot streak. With the grind of a 162 game season there’s no way he’ll be able to fight through the everyday aches and pains to be successful.
first inning, out with an injury… damnit
Cardinals fan here – thankfully, I think he’s back in there today.
He’s not playing in Pittsburgh the last 2 years of the contract. 17 mil each year. They hope they are the rays light by then and he will be expendable for prospects.
According to article in post gazette
Reynolds wanted 4.9 mil this year and pirates wouldn’t budge from 4.25 lmao
Is this serious? Playing hard ball with your best player over 600k? What a clown show
@Buccrazy – I agree. If they wish to have any hope of signing Reynolds to an extension, this salary conundrum better not go to a hearing. The negative stuff that is said by clubs about their players in these hearings is apparently pretty bad and often causes hard feelings that create irreconcilable differences. Either give him the $4.9 mil or get a larger contract of some sort done.
I would give 21-3 buying out all 3 of his arbitration years.
You can’t blame a guy for locking up a very easy life but this is a huge discount if he is even a solid regular much less a star.
Or he could be Eric Chavez this is the most guaranteed money ever given to a player with so little playing time.
Good for him. That’s $70 million more than I will have in the same time period.
Not relevant. Stop comparing your pathetic life to professional baseball player.
I made $5 million last month. It’s a pretty pathetic life I live.
Old York-Chisux is a troll.
Everybody with an opinion is a troll to the dumbed down.
OK worse than a troll.Any poster who would tell another poster that they have a pathetic life just because he has a different opinion must have one himself.
Interesting distribution. Definitely works for the Bucks, since the larger amounts are in years when their payroll will be low. Works for Hayes too, considering inflation realities.
Highest paid utility infielder ever? I mean let’s be honest this is like the Scott Kingery deal but worse. He’ll have to hit above .290 and have a dWAR above 2.5 for the entirety of this contract to make it even worth it as an everyday 3B.
lolol, what are you even talking about!
His BA is such a small part of determining his value.
Kingery singed his deal before making his debut. The Pirates at least had a 120 game sample of Hayes at the big league level prior to this extension.
I think it’s a worthy risk for Pittsburgh — Hayes’ defense gives him a solid floor, and he’s shown some flashes with the stick.
The problem with the Kingery deal was that the Phillies decided that, since they were paying like a pro, he should in the MLB instead of AAA. He wasn’t ready. He had a 58/13 K/W in AAA, which predictably turned into a 126/24 in the pros.
But even when it was obvious that it wasn’t working, they kept him in the pros the following year. And that predictably turned into a 147/34 in his second year.
Joe- These contracts do not always work out for team.Kingery is the prime example of someone who could have been a nice solid ML second baseman who hit line drives and fielded well.Instead they wanted him to be Sean Rodriguez but with home run power.Just another example of a major screw up by the Klentak regime.They understood numbers but not people.
The significant front-loading of this contract isn’t something I’ve seen before.
It’s the opposite of what they did with Cutch extension and it limited the ability to add players and payroll in during the playoff run
Big- The Pirates added players like Morneau,Soria,Happ,Byrd,and Blanton during their playoff runs.
If Nutting would not have OK’d this he truly would have deserved to be called cheap.
I am referring to the 2017 and 2018 season where Cutch made 28 million over those 2 seasons and got 20 million within the first 3 years of the extension. That 28 million could have extended the window especially if bell Cole Tailon Tyler hit and Marte didn’t get suspended for ped
10-4- Thanks for the clarification
Seems brilliant though. Give a young guy that doesn’t already have millions in the bank a larger up front salary and he is far more likely to accept smaller salaries down the road than he would have gotten in arbitration.
Why settle with such low salary when the team is basically telling the player you’re worth eight years? l guess he’s not that money-hungry. l hope that stays until the contract is over because once he thinks he’s worth more this contract will do nothing but demotivate him for a long time unless of-course it’s got some opt-out clause.
Or maybe the Pirates trust his character and think that he will honor the provisions of the contract.Not everyone is money hungry.$70 M is a lot of money for any one person.He did not turn down the opportunity to make his first fortune.
Is it just me, is this a HORRIBLE contract for this kid? With the directional trend of current contracts, what will he actually be worth to a contender? Sure, it’s awesome for him today, but it sure seems like the Pirates come out way ahead on this one. I hope his agent didn’t push for a no trade clause unless Hayes is perfectly content to play meaningless games after May 15th every year.
It’s not even that bad. Albies deal in Atlanta is highway robbery
What’s the over/under on his trade date? I’m betting the Pirates don’t pay even half that contract. He’ll be gone long before then.
I hope you are wrong but you are probably right. If he under performs they will package him with a couple of prospects to get rid of his contract.. If he over performs it will depend on whether they are competing that year, If they are not he will be gone for some younger prospects. I will be optimistic and guess 6 years out of eight as a Pirate.
Since no one asked…I don’t see O’Neil Cruz staying at SS. Maybe a shift to OF or 1B, but for my money, Liover Pegeuro is the Bucs SS of the future. Solid IF over the next 5-7 years.
That is the consensus of knowledgeable Pirate fans.
Not enough consistency for shortstop.