The most recent offseason featured a huge crop of star free agents, with the five top-tier shortstops being one of the most exciting elements, as Corey Seager, Carlos Correa, Marcus Semien, Javier Baez and Trevor Story all reached the open market at the same time. In about five months’ time, another offseason will begin, and though the crop of available shortstops won’t be quite as strong, it still has the potential to be noteworthy.
MLBTR recently released its first Free Agent Power Rankings for the upcoming winter, and although red-hot outfielder Aaron Judge nabbed the top spot, he was followed by three shortstops in the 2, 3 and 4 slots: Carlos Correa, Trea Turner and Xander Bogaerts. (Correa and Bogaerts both have opt-outs that they are expected to trigger.) In today’s column from Bob Nightengale of USA Today, he reports that the Cubs could be big spenders this winter, naming those three shortstops as their primary targets. “I guarantee you they’re going to get one of them,” an unnamed veteran general manager tells Nightengale, who also says that several executives are predicting the Phillies to be sitting at this table as well.
Cubs manager David Ross recently spoke about letting Nico Hoerner serve as the team’s primary shortstop for the remainder of the year, though he’s also spent a decent amount of time at second base, as well as occasionally lining up at third base and in the outfield. It seems the club may be leaning towards a big addition at shortstop and bumping Hoerner over to second base next year.
After a big trade deadline fire sale in 2021, the Cubs were expected to have a fairly quiet offseason this past winter. However, they surprised many people by making a few somewhat aggressive moves. They didn’t land any of the big five shortstops, though they did give out multi-year deals to Seiya Suzuki, Marcus Stroman and Yan Gomes.
The club is currently sporting a record of 23-31, six games back of the final playoff spot. There’s still time for them to gain some ground, though it’s also possible they go into the trade deadline as sellers this year. But regardless of how they fare for the remainder of this season, they should have spending power this winter. Suzuki is the only player currently under contract for the 2025 season, although the Cubs also have a $7MM club option for David Bote that year. Stroman’s contract runs through 2024, though he can opt out after the 2023 season. Kyle Hendricks and Yan Gomes could also be free agents after 2023, as they have options for 2024.
In short, there’s not a lot preventing the club from making a big splash this winter if they want to. According to Cot’s Baseball Contracts, the team ran out Opening Day payrolls in the vicinity of $200MM from 2016 to 2019, but got that number below $150MM last year and this year. Jason Martinez of Roster Resource pegs their 2023 payroll at $94MM at the moment, then just $50MM in 2024 and $20MM in 2025. Arbitration-eligible players will add to those numbers, but not by a lot. If they want to be aggressive in getting out of this rebuild/retool/whatever period, the opportunity is there.
The Phillies, however, are in a very different situation. They had a very aggressive offseason, giving out big contracts to both Nick Castellanos and Kyle Schwarber, pushing the club beyond the luxury tax line for the first time. Despite that aggressiveness, they’ve struggled over the first third of the season, going into today’s action with a record of 24-29, 4 1/2 games behind the Giants for the final NL Wild Card spot.
There was some speculation that they would dive into the shortstop sweepstakes this past winter, though they ultimately decided to stick with the in-house options of Didi Gregorius and prospect Bryson Stott. Gregorius is currently on the IL due to a sprained knee, but was performing okay before that. His .288/.338/.356 line amounts to a 97 wRC+, slightly below league average but much better than the 68 wRC+ he had last year. Regardless, he’s a free agent after this year, giving the club an opening next year. Stott could theoretically fill that void, though he’s struggled in his first taste of MLB action. Through 27 games, he’s hitting just .157/.222/.217 for a wRC+ of just 26. If the Phils were to go out and nab a big fish in free agency, Stott could spend more time in the minors or perhaps shift over to another infield position to try and force his way into the lineup, having played some second and third base as well.
Despite getting into luxury tax territory this year, the club should be able to be aggressive again next winter with many contracts coming off the books. Martinez puts their 2023 payroll at $129MM, well shy of this year’s $232MM, though that doesn’t include a $17MM option for Jean Segura, the $16MM option for Aaron Nola or salaries for arbitration-eligible players, including Rhys Hoskins. Regardless of whether they can turn their 2022 season around, it seems they may keep their foot on the gas pedal going forward, as they look to snap a postseason drought that goes back to 2011.
Both of those teams should pursue punch-and-judy shortstops and work on their terrible bullpens for next year. Then if/when they fall out of the race, they can trade those bullpen pieces for prospects.
Shouldn’t you be giving advice to the Bucs front office? I think Hoyer is doing extremely well, turning this mess around. But they will be trading quite a few Pitchers in the next few months. Miley, Smyly, Givens and maybe Stroman, Robertson and I hate to say it, Hendricks. They also have a few decent RH hitting outfielders at AAA, that could be used to sweeten the pot – Maldonado and Velazquez.
LOLOL
Sox troll having his stroke in installments again.
White Sox are 24-27.
I would not be LOL anybody right now
Not sure how Hoyer is doing a good job. Team needs a complete reboot.
Not sure if you noticed but the cubs bullpen has been pretty freaking good this year.
@bucsfans
Who are these punch and Judy SS’s that you think they should “pursue?” And why would they fix the bullpen to dismantle it after doing so? Just keeps it as a problem going forward. Phillies are all in, and not looking to do a sell off.
Why would the Cubs pursue a 30 million AAV shortstop with the current state of the MLB team. Doesn’t really seem necessary right now.
waste of $ too. cubs need starting pitching for one, Except for saeger, the rest of the crop look like they are a bust so far.
Agree. And both teams need more than just SS. Cubs need a reboot and the Phils need a CF, bullpen, etc. Too many DHs on that team.
Bullpens are tough. Phillies invested a fair amount into theirs and it still stinks. FA relievers are such a crap shoot. Phillies have some decent pieces in their pen (Brogdon, Dominguez) that would probably look a lot better with some actual defense up the middle.
Girardi didn’t exactly help the bullpen. His track record dates back to his Yankee days. Ask any Yankee fan and they’ll tell you – he’s a disaster.
@padam- I have to disagree with you. You won’t find a bigger Yankee fan then me. While Girardi is not a perfect manager(who is) if it was up to me Girardi would still be managing the Yankees, he was my favorite. What kind of bullpen did he ever really have in Philly? Did you really expect him to win there? Do you think that Joe Girardi isn’t going to manage a major league team again? Far from it. He’s definitely one of the best managers in baseball. He’s a better manager then Aaron Boone. My wish in the off-season was to hire Buck Showalter for the Yankees. Look at his success with the Mets. Not surprised. Buck walked in to the best possible situation. Girardi will no doubt do the same with his next managerial job.
@Captain Judge99 You clearly haven’t been watching Girardi manage in awhile. No one is blaming all the Phillies problems on Girardi. That’s ridiculous, the franchise has failed to develop talent years. Everyone knows that’s the real issue, but Girardi has mismanaged all year. He’s been terrible. Even he admits it.
In 1-0 games with a DH, there’s absolutely no reason to use 5+ pitchers, but Giradi does, overworking a bad pen. He refuses to use feel and goes “by the book” constantly. If a reliever pitches a perfect 8th, he’ll take him out in the 9th simply because he wants to use a closer to get the save. When things aren’t working, you have to adjust, and Girardi is too stubborn to do so. He mismanaged the lineup. He mismanaged the pen. And he lost the clubhouse. The Phillies have 1000 problems, and 999 of them have nothing to do with Girardi, but Girardi was a problem himself and his firing has sparked the team and they are undefeated since he left. Of course that won’t last, but it’s pretty clear he needed to go.
@VonPurpleHayes- yes I hear exactly what your saying about the Phillies or whatever. All I’m saying this isn’t Girardi’s fault. What makes you think a manager is going to change anything? I hope your not a Phillies fan saying this is a ridiculous team or organization? I’ve never seen so many players not wanting to play with a MVP type player like Harper. You would think he would be a drawing card to get big players to the Phillies? He isn’t. He makes so much $ it hurts the club. And then this dummy trashes Girardi after he is fired. Harper is a great player, but is really worth all the trouble, with his bad attitude and his big contract? To me probably not. I would think about moving him for some big prospects.
Harper didn’t trash Girardi…that’s simply a case of a sports writer trying to create a story.
Players want money and to win.
He used relievers late over 2 innings, but Joe really stuck to his convictions not using a reliever three days in a row AND would rely on veterans over young players.
Loos at the average age of his 2009 Yankees that beat our Phillies
Posada 38
Jeter 35
ARod 33
Damon 35
Matsui 35
Pettitte 37
@Captain Judge99 Okay. There’s a lot to take in, but a lot of it is just wrong. Firstly, Harper doesn’t make that much AAV. People need to take a look at that contract and realize that he’s actually being underpaid based on his performance. The issue was the length. Secondly, since signing Harper, Zack Wheeler, JT Realmuto, Nick Castellanos and Kyle Schwarber have been signed by the Phillies. This tells us two things: Harper signing did not hinder the Phillies from spending money…quite the opposite, and secondly, there are many players who want to play with Harper and the Phillies for various reasons. So off the bat, your claim is disproven.
As far as Harper’s bad attitude, what are you even talking about? He never trashed Girardi and in fact, blamed himself and the team’s performance for Girardi’s firing. I’m trashing Girardi. Bryce Harper and the Phillies roster did not. In fact, they all stated that they feel terrible he was fired and take full responsibility.
The idea that Harper has a bad attitude is a ridiculous. The Phillies players and coaches love him. He’s nothing but hustle and performance. The Phillies fans love him. Every fanbase in baseball would love the dude if he were on their team.
I don’t know where these wild, fictional stories about his bad attitude come from. It’s just false.
What players refused to come to the Phillies because of Harper? Certainly the Phillies haven’t missed out on too many players the last couple of seasons – it’s usually more dependent on money.
how about girardi over lasrussa? Le Russa takes a back seat to develop talent.
Every fanbase in baseball would love the dude if he were on their team.
================================
I agree. I didn’t like the younger version of Harper, but he’s been outstanding off and on the field for the Phillies. The folks that don’t like him are probably referencing the Harper from several years ago.
Harper is on one of the best contracts in the game
LaRussa develop talent? I agree. Nothing like an old dog learning a new trick. At NO point in my memory of LaRussa has he been a talent developer. Always the icing on the contender cake. Oakland and St. Louis.
La Russa was better with young players when he managed the A’s.
As he got older, the seemed to favor veterans,
Bullpen pieces rarely bring back much
Cubs bullpen has been pretty good
Defense is a huge problem for the Phillies. I could see them pursuing Correa. I could also see them letting Segura walk and shifting Stott to second. They will probably trade Hoskins and shift Schwarber to first. They may even trade Bohm as having him at first would seem kind of dumb if he continues to not hit for power.
I think Schwarbs should stay DH bring up Hall and see if he can be the future. If he fails Schwarber can take over 1b
Putting Shwarber anywhere on the field is not going make Phillie defense better.
Trade Castellanos or Schwaber, make the one kept the full time DH. Get them both off the grass. Sign Correa, sign a CF………:::and 9 relief pitchers, and 3 backend starters.
A better CF can hide the weak corner OF. Harper can hold his own in right once he recovers from injury. Schwarber and Castellanos should never play D at the same time, but playing one in LF wouldn’t be terrible with a better CF.
Harper just isn’t an OFer anymore. Dude lost his arm and then his ability to track balls. He is a DH at this point.
Pre-injury I was totally fine with Harper in the OF. Defensive metrics don’t tell the full story, but I think he was okay out there. If he doesn’t fully recover from this i jury then that’s another story.
VonPurpleHayes
A better CF can hide the weak corner OF.
===========================
I thought that Kiermaier to the Phillies was a slamdunk.. I still can’t believe it didn’t happen.
@VonPurpleHayes- Aaron Hicks can play excellent defense in left or center until one of your prospects, can come in and hold down the fort. Hicksy won’t cost you much as far as prospects either. You can bat him 9th until he starts hitting better. The Yankees probably would pay about half of his contract that is owed.
I don’t like Hicks much better than the Phillies current options.
Translated, that is essentially “the player we don’t want would be perfect for your team! Can you take away some of the excessive salary from our books?”
Thanks, no.
“the player we don’t want would be perfect for your team!
================================
Since KK doesn’t play for my team, I guess that falls into the category of “I have no idea what you’re talking about”.
But as a RS fan, before we acquired JBJ, I would definately have been interested in KK, for the right price. Having a GG CF, between Harper & Castellanos, is a much better alignment.
Joe, he was talking about the Yankees fan saying Hicks would be great for Philly
Von: The one thing Harper still certainly is – athletic. If he lost his arm, perhaps transition him to 1B? It’s not like Hoskins is a long-term solution and he’s not Mattingly with the glove either. He could then rotate with the DH to get a few extra rest days, but he may just flourish too. I wouldn’t put it last a guy of his talent level & athleticism to learn 1B.
I think his arm will come back when his injury heals. As for Hoskins, I defended him for years because of his OPS, but he’s regressing too much. I’m all for a 1B upgrade. but I’m fine with Harper in RF if he heals up.
Completely agree. I’ve looked at his advanced metrics & watched him play fairly extensively (for a non-Phillies fan), and I think he’s better defensively than what most metrics reflect. If he’s got the arm, he should be fine. He should have the arm, because pitchers heal and lose *no* velo; in fact, as you well know, they often gain it.
I will say, Hicks hasn’t had the arm since he returned. It’s not that his arm is smoked completely, but it’s not as lively as it was pre-surgery.
Bogaerts would look great in a Phillies uniform.
Yeah good looking guy. However, poor defender. Come to think of it, I guess he fits right in … I’d guess they’d go after Trea myself, although there will be competition, including from his old team the Nats.
Either Turner or Correa would be excellent fits.
Excellent fits for just about any team.
Turner will be a Dodger.
He wants to be in the southeast…
Bogey is made for the Redsox uni he’s always worm.
Then why did they sign Story?
To play 2B. Their top prospect Mayer is a SS too, so I don’t really think Story was the long-term plan for SS. Regardless of what they told Story, I think the plan for him has been stopgap all along, and if something doesn’t work out with Mayer at SS, or making MLB, they have Story as SS.
Nico Hoerner is decent, but he shouldn’t keep the team from upgrading. In fact, no player on the roster isn’t good enough to be upgraded. I really only see happ, hoerner and Suzuki as guys who will still be regulars when the team improves, and they can move around.
If the cubs really want to build around their prospects they have to be patient. Most guys are a few years away. Especially with this being a lost year for Davis. Signing a guy here or there like they did with Lester last time is the smart way to go.
Morel!!!!
Morel isn’t going to be a long term piece.
He may end up back in the minors when he slumps but no, I think the Cubs may have a super-utility man for the next few seasons.
Morel is a catlyst and fan favorite, he should be a super utility with the team for several more years. He brings energy, charisma and speed.
Madrigal, Frazier and Hermosillo are out. Davis is a big question mark. Cubs have a catcher in Contreras or Gomes, Hoerber for one middle infield slot tolerable corners in Schwindel and Wisdom, acceptable corner outfielders is Suzuki and Happ.. Key backups are Morel and Ortega.
So signing a centerfielder and shortstop sounds good. The KEY is starting pitching. Stroman was great with Mets but is having trouble in Chicago. Hendricks was amazing several years ago, but not anymore. Killian, Keegan and Steele is not a World series rotation, but it could be their 3, 4 and 5 starters and maybe Marquez will help but like Davis he is an injury question mark.
Cubs needs two front-line starters more than they need a CF and SS, but if they can sign all of that, they will be competitive in NL Central. Musgrove, Bassitt, Rodon or Eovaldi? Bogaerts or Correa? (I think Trea Turner will rejoin Soto on Nationals.)
As for Dodgers, Lux can play 2B and Taylor SS. They will not spend $350+ million to sign a speedster in Trea Turner for 12 years. Even if Max Muncy and Justin Turner are relgated to bench players or off the rsoter next year, they have Vargas or Busch for 3B/DH and of course Freeman at 1B. Betts and Bellinger will be back at RF and CF respectively. Smith at catcher.
So Dodgers need a front-line starter if Kershaw retires, to resign Anderson, to hope that Buehler and Urias pitch more like 2021 than 2022, and to sign a left-fielder with a big bat with can rotate through DH as well. Maybe Rodon, Musgrove or Manaea? Aaron Judge or Mitch Haniger if they spend big! Pollock or Nimmo if they don’t.
This Cubs team is a blast to watch. Not a great team, but one that plays with spirit the way a lot of their teams really haven’t in the recent past. Sometimes I enjoy a season like this as much as a “World Series Contender” one.
Lux will play SS, if Dodgers do not resign Turner, which I hope they do. Muncy will be at 2b. Taylor in Left. JTurner, if resigned will DH.
too long skip
@ kidbryant. I would bet that you don’t know much about the Cubs organization.
My Dodger wishes for 2023 –
Sign Jose Igelsias
Get the Urias ext done next offseason before he’s free to talk to 29 other teams the next offseason
Id like a 3b, our defensive options are gonna be baaaddddd….but there’s nobody on the market…sadly longo and Turner are the best avail ….Yikes…… Ida trded for Eugenio this offseason for peanuts but that’s done sooo…
Id take Turner on a low 1 yr deal…maybe 6 mill (ish) he’s owed 2 on the b/o already……. His bat speed is def declining and the D is hanging on by a thread…no problem losing him to a 10+ mill bid
Most likely scenario Muncy Rios Vargas just switch off between 3b/DH
Tre for 30+. on 7+ years…no no way….the opportunity cost there would be tooooo great.
I think it’s funny now that everyone is so quick to give up on Madrigal.
I don’t see happ as a building block because I don’t think the cubs re-sign happ. Cubs only have control of Ian through next year.
Morel, schwindel, Suzuki, Hoerner and Madrigal are the cubs “future” along with steele, thompson and Kilian.
Noticed they slid Hoerner over to 3B last night for the first time, with Simmons coming in for defense.
I don’t think Trea Turner is going anywhere, then again I’m no expert. Wishful thinking perhaps.
I’d have thought the same thing about Seager, then saw his price tag. But trading for Turner gave them the flexibility to let him walk and fill in his offense with Freeman at a reduced rate. LAD willing to pay Turner $300M – could Busch/Vargas play SS?
Busch or Vargas could push Lux or Taylor into SS. Jacob Amaya has gotten great reviews with his glove and is crushing AA pitching. That team is full of utility players and they have options if Trea’s price gets too high.
3b for Busch or Vargas.
iBleedblue
Dodgers are not stupid enough to spend $400 million on a speedy shortstop that will age poorly. (See Seager and Freeman).
Better move: Dodgers spend $400 million on Aaron Judge! And let Trea Turner go.
C Smith
1B Freeman
2B Lux
SS Taylor
3b/DH Vargas/busch
OF Betts
OF Judge
OF Bellinger
SP Buehler
SP Urias
SP Kershaw or Free Agent
SP Gonsolin
SP Anderson
(Dustin May shifts to bullpen)
On my earlier post, Nico Hoerner’s last name is spelled wrong, but the edit function froze)
I’d rather have trea over judge
So would I , BigFoot. Definitely don’t need Judge.
For sure. I’ll take speed out there putting pressure on the pitcher and scoring when others wouldn’t than a slugger prone to droughts. You’ll get more run production with speed.
Get more run production with speed? Not according to EVERY study ever done on the subject. Speed on the base paths doesn’t give you one tenth of the advantage power does. Fans way over estimate the value of speed on the bases. It’s a drop in the bucket. Again, this has been studied by experts and it’s not even close. You fans would manage your teams into 150 losses.
But they will spend $300 million on a 6’7″ 300lbs RFer who will are poorly. Suuuuuure.
Two different things.
1) Power brings more run production than speed. 2) Body types that will age well are preferred. 3) Someone who can move well enough to cover the field and who know how to use that leather thing on your hand is definitely preferred.
Successful teams are the ones who pursue all three, and who can cover the costs of such a player. The downside is that that kind of player is hard to find and costly to obtain. There’s a reason why Trout and Betts are making what they are.
Judge is playing for his next contract. Once he’s overpaid for too many years it will be back to the IL on the regular for years to come.
@ Manny- Don’t think they will sign any {more} 30+ mill guys
Urias and Buehler await… I hear “Winter’s coming” in Jon Snow’s voice as I type that
Just give me Jose Igelsias as a rotating bn/def replacement inf that can play 3b.ss, and 2b
Let the Kids fill the diamond. It will be bad defensively but there’s not many great options anyways in free agency
Lux can get work at ss with Igelsias providing the safety net
Muncy can play more 3b than ususal
Rios can get reps at 3b
Busch at 2b
And maybe Amaya and Vargas are ready as well … And Ofc Taylor can spell anywhere tho Im liking him as a steady LF these days bringing that full continuity to the OF
Again not great defensively (Igelsias sure helps tho ) w versatility but boy does that free up cash elsewhere (*manly on the mound)
@iBleedBlue- they’re is no doubting Trea Turner’s talent, any team in MLB would be happy to have him as a shortstop or 2nd basemen. But make no mistake about it Trea is definitely going where the $ is at, deservedly so. My guess right now, is that he is staying in La-La Land. The Dodgers definitely have the resources to get a deal done with him.
Highly doubt Trea is a Dodger next year. Dodgers will look to reset on the luxury tax as they don’t want to go above three years in a row. They’ll look at cheaper options internally and then externally. I’m not sure if Lux can hit or field enough but it looks like it’s his job to lose as of now.
A lot depends on the Bauer money situation, I think that’s why they haven’t talked extension on Turner. Some other contracts are rolling of next year for them. I think they will offer high aav with lower years like 5-7.
Turner won’t go to the Nationals, if they sign Soto it would be as a condition of the sale of the franchise. The owners have always let position players play under team control then walk at free agency or trade shortly prior. They only put big money over 100 million into starting pitching. That is their problem now, starting pitching that either isn’t pitching or winning or both.
“Nationals, if they sign Soto it would be as a condition of the sale of the franchise.”
I’m pretty sure you don’t have to worry about this happening.
No.no.NO !
Let’s start with the rotation ,where Gibson is a FA, Eflin has a “mutual “ option, and Nola is in his option year. Suarez has regressed as well. Even if you keep Eflin and Nola (31 mil combined ), you still need at least one more starter. THEN we have to rebuild the bullpen AGAIN… most of the guys are on 1 year deals..And then, CF is still an issue .
If not Stott or Camargo or Maton , we need to find a defensive and inexpensive shortstop.(Jose Iglesias comes to mind.)
If only there was a gold glove caliber defensive SS that came up through our system and was controllable for six years…
His name was Larry Bowa
You can certainly have Iglesias. But he’s not the defender he once was, by a very long shot.
Hard pass. Iglesias will be next year’s version of Andrelton Simmons, and nobody wants that.
I agree with this. I’m a Mets fan, so I certainly am not hoping for the best for them. Spending on more top FAs doesn’t seem like the right direction.
A lot of people last off-season thought the Yankees would (and should) go after one of the big-name free agents. Instead, they went defense there, and it looks like the right decision. The Phillies have plenty of offensive already, they can afford to go glove at short (and CF). Spending the money on pitching and defense feels like the better move for them.
I was one of them who thought they should’ve gone after Story. By the eye test, their defense is night and day from early last year. I also don’t see the Phillies going after another big contract.
@mlbtrrblm- it’s funny that you say that. I’m a Yankee’s fan that really wanted Cory Seager, he would of been my target, with that sweet swing tailor made for the right-field porch at Yankee Stadium. I don’t see Seager staying in Texas long, unless they start winning in a few years. I definitely see him being traded. Any team in the majors would be happy to have him. I look at our #1 prospect Anthony Volpe as a future 2nd basemen in the majors. The Yankees would be wise to keep him, but my guess if Juan Soto ever becomes available he would definitely be a piece of many prospects going back to the Nationals. Lol.
Seager is great if you factor in missing 20% of every season on average. He will need to move to third in the next year or two.
Mets fan too. They need to stop trading away few top guys they have and rebuild the farm. I see judge as either a met or yabkee.
The bullpen has been ‘rebuilt’ the last 6 years with (not counting pitchers brought up from the minors) at least 35 relievers either traded for or signed as free agents. I have a list compiled of them all. All rejects and retreads, some coming with glowing past ‘track records’. Hasn’t worked so far. Relievers are what they are – up and down, with one good season being no guarantee of a following good season. There is no and won’t be another Mariano Rivera to come in and magically save 40 games
@ Phillls;
You hit it on the head…….
The Phillies problem is that they don’t have an organizational infrastructure to find players – and when acquiring them make them better.
The quality organizations do that. They have scouts and coaches that study film, look at a players analytics, and come up with a program to make them better.
The idea that we’re to look at a guys stats and plug him onto a new team is silly. MLB is not computer baseball. Players deal with their manager and multiple coaches each day from spring training to their last game of the season. Their coaches affect the way the players approach, execute, and play the game. Like any (what used to called) second division team the Phillies do a nice job with 4-6 guys each year. The rest of the guys pretty much stay the same or regress.
All this is true, but I do think improving defense at SS and CF would go a long way into improving the bullpen.
Just shows what everyone knew already. Money doesn’t always buy you World Series titles. Seems like the better the front office/scouting etc is ran, the better the club. As a Cubs fan, I marvel at how organizations like the Cardinals and Rays are run. Not close to the top spenders in the league yet constantly in the hunt it seems.
2016 was magic. That team was healthy and played great. Then, wow! I don’t the Cubs are a threat to win the World Series for another 100 years.
If the current or any future Cubs ownership chooses to spend like a top five in size city in the U.S., there is no reason that the Cubs won’t be in the World Series picture a lot more frequently! I am open-minded to see what the Cubs do over the next couple years.
MannBeingMVP– Cubs issue has been debt related. It’s one of the tippy-top franchises in MLB global branding. They do share a market with the White Sox, but no more than the Dodgers share Southern California with the Angels.
I’m not a believer that city size is a pure indicator of market. Kansas City wouldn’t have a team if not for the 4 hour region around it. That was the reason given for astroturf all those years
Cards aren’t really anything special, just get a lot of cheap wins in a very weak division and usually grab a wild card. I’d take it, don’t get me wrong, but they’re nothing like the Rays, who are indeed a marvel of spending efficiency … and also a major problem for the league because they have no fans despite being good.
The Cardinals share in the luxury tax pool because they are cast as a “small market” team, which is bs. That said, the Goldy trade was solid gold and the Arenado deal was great too.
Lets start with this. Both of these teams get multiple extra picks in the draft because of market size. Even though I hate that whole idea, I can somewhat understand the Rays getting picks. The Cardinals have a full stadium most nights and a TV and radio market that includes MO, Ill, Indiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Tennessee, etc.
Trea learned from Bryce’s mistake. He’s not going to Philly to win 75 games and finish 4th in the east for the remainder of his career. Maybe Bogaerts makes that mistake but not Trea.
Players care how many games their team wins a lot less than you think. That’s a myth concocted for fans who live vicariously through their teams.
Seamaholic, I agree with you 50%. Put differently, for some players, winning is a big deal, and for many others the money is all that matters. And some players want to get a big paycheck, and once they have, then they want to win. Players vary in what they want, just like people in other professions.
for some players, winning is a big deal,
==================================
I think it depends on the players’ history. If you develop late, like Joe Kelly, and aren’t a FA until age 30-31, you need to strike gold. He went to the Dodgers anyway, but some guys are not in a position to choose winning over security.
@seamaholic 2;
They’ll do thee NBA thing…….
First get the multi-year multi-hundred-million-dollar contract. Say they’re committed to the organization. Love the city.
If they’re playing decently after a few years of losing they have their agent request a trade. Their contract is guaranteed, now they want to win. Watch what the 2 guys the Rangers just signed do in a few years.
Shuddup bout Bogey. He’s won 2 WS
Larry Bowa or Ivan DeJesus
I think all 3 have new teams next year. Boston, Minnesota, and LA have other options available as insurance policies.
Breaking News. Marquee SS not going to trash teams again.
yeah, because Texas, Boston, and Detroit have all been such powerhouses this season…oh wait.
Read slower.
Baez has not been much help, but he’s not the reason for the Detroit predicament.
Wow, the numbers Story, Seager, Baez and Semian are sporting are definitely not what these teams paid for. Buyers beware.
First years for marquee free agents are often like that. They put a lot of pressure on themselves. Watch out next year. Also, Story and Semien are playing out of position and Baez hasn’t been a good hitter in years.
@Seamaholic
Pressure on the first year? but all of these guys killed it in during their contract years.
Funny how players have worse years after they secure the big payday and best year before they reach free agency.
Must be the pressure
Pie – I partially agree with you. Players tend to have huge years when their contract is up, but they also tend to start off new contracts doing very well for at least a couple months.
It’s the middle years in which they often underperform.
Story has been on a roll since start of May. Compare him with rest of 2b class he is currently positioning at as example, especially Semien playing league’s worst among qualifiers.
Back to SS.. Anyone think Turner will sign for “just” 6/120m next year and have the numbers (so far) story does this year? 9hr, 40rbi and a .347OBP?
Lay off the guy, after signing 3rd week of march and an awful start of the season? he’s doing just fine.
Story is probably the least I’d be worried about. He just has a gritty feel to him that makes me think he will figure it out.
As for Turner, I do wonder what he will sign for. In my eyes he’s the best of the bunch the last couple years and just has that “it” factor. I know out of the whole crop of FA SS’s the last 2 years I would take him first every time.
Boston fans have been brutal all year on these boards with EVERYTHING to be fair Mr Silver
I had to smile yesterday for a moment as they slipped themselves into the 6th playoff spot thinking of all them
Now it’s gonna be hard to maintain in that Div but if they just have this be their worst 1/3 of baseball then they are IN
Will have to go at at least 500 v NYY TB and TOR and put the punching gloves on vs the improved Orioles. It’s still a flawed team, but a flawed team that many fanbases would love to have
** And 1 that’s actually silently getting better on the farm and ledger while still providing current results. AL’s version of the SF Giants, tho Giants fans seem to have MUCH better grasp on everything inside the ball of yarn
Cap & Crunch3 hours ago
Boston fans have been brutal all year on these boards with EVERYTHING to be fair Mr Silver
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But it’s also mostly four guys that incessantly bash the RS. Of course, there are always a few fans who are less upbeat, and a few fans who simply come to different conclusions. But the real bashing and trolling is limited to 4 guys.
And, oddly enough, they all disappeared.18 games ago.
Well right now Turner has 44 rbi, 359 obp, 6 homers, and 11 stolen bases and hitting 300. He had a slow April but has heated up. And I think he likes playing on a team that is in the hunt every year, and I think he will get a shorter term higher aav offer from LA and will take it, unless someone throws crazy money at him.
Story, Seager, Baez and Semian
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Story has been tearing it up recently, and even on a full-year basis, still tracks towards a 4.8 fWAR.
Seager is getting penalized by a low BABIP, but still trending towards 33 HRs.
Baez has always been a streaky player.
And Semien is also on a tear, albeit not as long as Story. Semien has 3 HRs and 5 SBs in his last 12 games.
What’s the deal with Harper? I’m asking as a non-Phillies fan. Will his elbow require surgery no matter what and they’re simply waiting for the best time, or are they hoping PRP treatment and rest (not playing the OF) will allow them to avoid surgery? If surgery is inevitable, they might want to plan it so he’s ready for 2023.
They are hoping the injection allows healing without surgery. I doubt he plays in the field again this year, but he has adjusted to the DH rather well. If the Phillies are out of it later in the year, I bed they would consider surgery.
I know a lot of people keep mentioning surgery, but apparently with these injuries surgery isn’t really the answer. With the PRP treatment they heal naturally with rest. So surgery is not inevitable, and in fact, pretty unlikely.
In regards to the Cubs, don’t hold your breath. They’ve never spent top dollar for elite free agents or retain their own stars. I see no reason why they’d suddenly decide to spend $300MM on a SS. It’s bs.
In regards to the Phillies, they’re forever coveting players from Boston and NY, so I could see them wasting more money on position players and getting absolutely nowhere. That is their M.O.
Considering they will be about 200 million away from 300 million going into next year, I don’t think that’s a concern. Passing on this years SS class appears to be a very wise move. Hoyer has been impressive so far.
Thankfully they didn’t sign all those under-performing stars. They got lucky Rizzo, Bryant and Baez al turned down extensions.
Who cares about them saving money when they’re this bad? Cubs fans are weird.
And yet the Southside Bums are doing so well, right?
No one expected the Cubs to be good but everyone expected the Bums on the Southside to be better and yet they are nearly as bad as the Cubs!!!
The Sox aren’t nearly as close to as much fun to watch as the Cubs right now. This team is everything Sox fans claim as their thing…blue collar and passionate. If anyone is a White Sox fan this is actually a fun Cubs team in 2022
ChiSoxCity
Who cares about them saving money when they’re this bad?
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Because at the end of the day, long-term success is about getting the most WAR for the least amount of money. Signing guys with no regard for their salaries just guarantees more years of ineptitude.
Cubs record compares pretty well to the White Sox at the moment. Especially when expectations are considered.
They once gave Ryne Sandberg the largest contract in baseball history to retain him. Ancient times now, though.
“In regards to the Phillies, they’re forever coveting players from Boston and NY”
I’m pretty baffled by this comment. Can you elaborate?
He’s a troll Von. It’s best to ignore him.
Here we go again. Every year I hear that the Cubs are going after this guy or that guy and unless it’s a short-term, under 100M deal it doesn’t happen. I’ll believe it when I see it.
Hoerner has played very solid SS and second base and is showing he can hit, albeit with little power. Madrigal, even if he hits, won’t hit for power either. Hoyer making a run at Turner makes sense.
It makes sense but it’s not gonna happen. Trea is going to want over 300MM and I just don’t see the Cubs doing that.
The priority for the Phillies should be defensive ability.
Defensive metrics have failed to show any team has every won a game with -1 run scored. Therefore they Phillies front office believes they can win if they just hit 5 homers every game.
So Phillies would pay over $100M to four players next year? And none of them pitchers?
Dodgers are like an all star team, I just read they have the #1 farm system, Turners playing well, they’ll keep him
By many accounts, Turner wants to be in the southeast.
Seems like a future Brave to me. It’s in the Southeast, and they will have an opening at short once Swanson leaves.
If they didn’t spend market money on Freddy Freeman they won’t do it for an outsider.
Dodgers need cheaper and hopefully younger options. Spending $300 million is not sustainable, and why Turner will be playing elsewhere next season. A lot of talent in the farm but until they produce at the MLB level it’s all potential.
When Brian Harper is healthy, the Phillies use a DH in every position except C, 2B and RF. So, they will acquire another DH/SS
More big money free agents for the Phillies because they had the worst rebuild in major league history. Aaron Nola is all they have to show for 5 high 1st round picks.
If the Cubs are intent on pursuing a premium FA shortstop this offseason and then sliding Nico Hoerner over to second base perhaps the White Sox can reacquire Nick Madrigal to fill their hole at 2B. Of course, Madrigal could still remain the Cubs primary second baseman while Hoerner assumes a Ben Zobrist type role as a super utility player who would also see regular playing time.
I think that Cubs would be open to flipping Madrigal back to White Sox for a team top 30 pitching prospect.
How about either Tanner McDougal or Cristian Mena (both 19 year old right-handed pitching prospects ) from the White Sox to get Madrigal back?
Madrigal has been passed by both Hoerner and Morel in Cubs’ depth chart.
If I were the White Sox GM I’d trade any of my pitching prospects not named Norge Vera for Nick Madrigal. I’m guessing that Jed Hoyer will be looking for a whole lot more than the pitchers you suggest.
The cubs suck it doesn’t matter who they get at shortstop.
Very thoughtful take.
After the Phillies spending spree’s of Harper, Realmuto, Castellanos, and Schwarber they need to spend less on hitters and invest in some pitching and someone who can actually use a glove for more than just keeping their hand warm…
@Rsox Actually their starting pitching core is amongst the best in the NL. A lot of people who don’t watch the Phillies assume their offense is excellent, but everything else stinks. That’s actually not the case. The offense has struggled to find its stride. The defense stinks. The bullpen has stunk as well. The starting pitching has been great.
So I agree, they need to find better defenders, but the market didn’t really play out that way this year. They needed to improve their lineup as well and arguably they went after the 2 best hitting OFs out there. It hasn’t panned out so far, but I do expect this offense to get going as the weather warms up.
CF, and SS need to be the priority IMO. The bullpen is tough to figure.
they need to find better defenders, but the market didn’t really play out that way this year.
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I said it often enough, but I posted that the Phillies should’ve landed KK even before the lockout. I’m a RS fan, with a true love for JBJ’s defense, but KK is one of the best I’ve even seen. I’m talking Garry Maddox/Paul Blair level of play. $12M with an option would’ve locked up CF for 2 years before you start worrying about it.
@Von
Agree on all grounds with that assessment. Once the weather warms up, that place plays like it has softball fences. But that’s for both teams, too.
Side note, I was there the first series ever played. When I walked around the second level by home plate, the wind blowing through their toward center field almost took off my cap!
I told my wife then that this place was gonna be ridiculous for lazy fly balls turning into homeruns. Get the ball above the first level it’s like riding a jet stream.
Some musings on my part. First, enough of the get rid of Sugura krap. He’s the most steady hitter on the club and plays a good 2nd base.
I knew the pan was bad again but saw the start that this team has blown 14 saves already this year that led to a loss. There have been a few they Lee but won.
Ugh! wouldn’t let me edit my errors..Lee was supposed to be saves lost but still won.. Oh well..
Let’s see if I have this straight. We make a trade to pickup a pure contact hitter that we need,and while he is still trying to get back after a major injury and after a small amount of time we are giving up on him and spending obscene dollars on yet another ss when we have how many in the system? I swear writers are braindead.more importantly we are supposedly going to blow big bucks on 1 or 2 people so we can get right back to where we were right before the teardown? Quit trying to rush back to a 1 and done.
We are loaded with SS that are years away, if they ever even make it. Triantos is a few years away and there is speculation he won’t stick at SS, Ed Howard just had a major injury and was struggling at High A prior to that, Kevin Made is a few years away and profiles as a light bat/glove first SS, Christian Hernandez hasn’t played above rookie ball so he is at least 3 years away. You can get a guy like Correa that can play SS until one of those guys is ready, then he can slide over to 3B, as he gets older and range decreases, where we have virtually no prospects to speak of. Not sure what you do with Madrigal. I don’t want to give up on him yet. However, I think Hoerner is the better option to keep over Madrigal. Hoerner plays ++ defense at 2B and like Madrigal makes a lot of contact, but harder than Madrigal.
I didn’t read or see that the Cubs were definitely going to spend big on a FA SS. Just speculation that they could because of payroll space. Story didn’t mention that the Cubs farm system is top heavy in SS & 2B players.
Will be interesting to see what someone like Dansby Swanson commands compared to those three. I’d imagine they’ll command anywhere between 25-30 million per year. If Swanson, a historically hot and cold hitter, continues to hit and finishes with good overall stats, he may be in a spot to market as cheaper alternative at 17-20 or so.
Giving Dansby anywhere close to 100 million makes my stomach turn, but if he finishes with another strong her, he may get close.
It doesn’t seem like the Cubs are at the point in their cycle to benefit from the front end of a monster contract, and the Phillies would seem to be on the downward slope without having played in October during the upswing.
These seem like strange fits, imho
Correa is the best defensive SS out of the 3. They should definitely go all in on him, then go after a defensive CF and 1 or 2 high-end relievers. If Stott can finish off his first season strong, then maybe they can afford to let Segura go.
High end relievers?? Who are they, where are they, and how are the Phillies supposed to get them? Picking relievers off the free agent scrap heap hasn’t worked. Someone like Hader will have a ridiculous asking price in trade. Keep seeing the names Jansen and Kimbrel from various people, but seriously? Neither is any improvement over Knebel, just overpaid for past performances. Current performance from them is nothing special
The Braves will end up signing Judge!!! Gonna be interesting where the next upgrade after will be. Have at least $40 coming off the books. Dangerous team on the market for upgrades.
That guy in the Queens might have a different opinion.
The Phillies have problems across the board that signing one big name isn’t going to fix. Sign Correa? Great, now you have a terrible defense but with a good SS. Still a losing team. This is the problem. Instead of patiently building a solid team the Phillies and teams like the Reds try to improve in chunks by signing big names instead of spreading out talent. They’ll pursue a big name, maybe get it, and still continue to lose cuz that’s not how it works.
@Cosmo2 I don’t agree with this assessment at all. I have to say that the Phillies showed patience for decades and it didn’t pay off. They’ve failed to develop talent in the late 80s through the early 2000s. They failed to develop talent after 2011. It’s not like you can just sit back and rebuild and everything will go fine. I don’t think non-Phillies fans understand how bad development has been. It’s not like the Phillies have always gone after the big names. In recent years they’ve had to because there was no homegrown talent. And you bring up the Reds as if they’ve accomplished anything. The Reds are an example of a franchise that doesn’t try to improve at all.
It’s simple to say “The Phillies should develop talent instead of buying it.” But what if you can’t develop it? You should do nothing for decades and have empty seats in one of the biggest markets in the country? Let’s look at the Mets as an example. They’re enjoying tremendous success right now. They have a nice homegrown core of 4-5 players, but the rest were brought in via FA. They’re winning because they spent big. The Phillies need to develop that core, but continue to struggle doing so. The FA signings have actually been really successful for the most part. Harper was a steal. Wheeler has been worth every penny. Schwarber and Castellanos it’s too early to tell. They just don’t have those 4 to 5 homegrown guys. Guys like Hoskins keep regressing. Bohm may come around. Stott may work out. Time will tell, but if any of the homegrown guys step up, the Phillies could turn this around.
Development is key. On that we agree, and the Phillies need to get better there.
I think what you call patience is just bad development, not sure we really disagree there. It may be true that a few years back the Phillies tried the patient approach but the last few years they’ve been like a fancier version of the Reds. Add a big name here and there but forget about building a more well rounded, deeper team. Sure, failure to develop players factors in, but I’m seeing a team that tries to patchwork itself with the occasional big signing rather than actually do the things it takes to improve a team over the course of two to three years. Signing Correa would be more of the same.
@Cosmo2 It’s not that they forget about building talent. They’re not trading away many pieces. That’s the difference. They’re still trying to develop talent. They know what the problem is.
It would be totally different if they were trading away young talent for veteran talent, but they aren’t doing that at all. Hence why they’re forced to spend to compete.
You’re acting like signing big names is somehow impeding the development of younger talent. Strangely, it’s not in the Phillies case. The Phillies just have nothing to show for years of rebuilding.
I will say this Phillies team is much better than their record shows. They underperformed. They had a brutal schedule. They were mismanaged. They are banged up (as is everyone). They need to hit their stride and aim to finish above .500. I think they can. Ideally, Stott and Bohm step it up. Moniak and Maton would be nice as well, but I’ll take just 2 homegrown players leveling up this season.
They’re trying to improve development, but we won’t see the impact of that for years.
The money that could be used to sign Correa should be used to sign several players. In that sense, the big signings hinder development.
@Cosmo2 I’m not suggesting they sign Correa, but again this is something people say, but there’s no actual examples of it happening. Did signing Harper prevent the Phillies from signing Wheeler, Realmuto, Castellanos and Schwarber? They spent money on a variety of players. And again, how does signing major league ready players hinder development unless you’re trading away prospects (something the Phillies haven’t really done)?
The Mets went FA crazy this offseason and it worked. So for every nice homegrown core story, there’s a team that spent big to win and it worked. Look at all the 1st place teams this year. The vast majority of them are there because of their FA signings. Ideally it’s a combination of homegrown talent and FA, but the Phils homegrown talent sucks. They need to keep attempting to scout, draft and develop talent, but in the mean time, big markets should feel obligated to put a competitive product on the field as long as they aren’t sacrificing prospects.
But those are all big name free agents. My point is, there is no way to build a team by signing even several big names. All those big contracts prevented more efficient, multiple signings that would better improve the team. Not that all those contracts are bad, it’s just that it seems the only way the Phillies know how to do things and it isn’t working.
@Cosmo2 Ohhh I got you. So you’re not arguing against FA signings, but arguing against all big-name splashes. This I completely agree with. Phillies have the big flashy bats. They need some defensive-first signings in my opinion. And while Correra fits that bill, they can go much cheaper IMO.
Phils ALWAYS need pitching and bullpen, so I fully expect them to NOT add that.
Honestly, one of the biggest misfires was getting rid of Hernandez at 2b. He was consistent, anchored the middle, played every day and set the table for the thumpers. Segura has been fine, but it was a parallel move that cost more.
When does Hoskins’ contract expire? Is Bohm the long term answer at 3b? Can the Phillies take the time to let him develop?
Is Stott the next Kingery?
Wheeler, Nola, Gibson and Eflin will be another year older. Nobody goes 8 anymore, so your bullpen is critical to your success EVERY single day for 3+ innings. Phillies front office doesn’t seem to understand that. Continually signing retreads and hoping for bounce back seasons still isn’t working.
But, Jim Bowden said Scott Kingery was a future Hall of Famer. He also compared Addison Russell to Barry Larkin. I enjoy when the insufferable Jim Bowden is wrong.
Bowden also called me out for criticizing DET for spending way beyond their means 7-8 years ago. Tigers got nothing out of that spending spree, and the inevitable rebuild doesn’t seem to be bearing much fruit either.
How much are the Cubs improved by signing any of these 3 when you also subtract Contreras? They still feel like a sub .500 club.
And I wonder if a team is really going to sign Bogaerts to be a SS.
Silly article to get clicks……..
If Correa opts out of a contract at $35m a year it’ll be because he gets something better for at least 5-7 years. Correa has missed almost 40% of Twins games this year…so far. No one would give him a longer contract last offseason, why would they do it next year?
Bogarts goes out as a 2B / DH. Turner is the only true SS that stays healthy.
Now, how many franchises are open to paying out those big bucks long-term?
No one would give him a longer contract last offseason, why would they do it next year?
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50% of the time, a player having a poor year is someone to avoid. But 50% of the time, I see that as a buying opportunity. Story should’ve been a notch under Correa and Seager in terms of value. His 2021 injury, and some (unwarranted (imo) concerns about his splits, weakened his market.
I never liked Correa in terms of a $330M/10 contract, due to injuries. But if his 2023 market tanks due to lost time and some mild under-performance, and the bidding looks more like Story’s contract, then I think he could provide good value for whoever signs him.
If he’s looking at a Story type of contract going into this offseason Correa will likely opt on to his $35,100,000 for next season
Joe;
1. I believe Correa is the best SS in MLB…….when he plays.
2. He is NOT having a bad year, he’s having a very good year and he’s spurred the Twins……..when he plays.
3. Who do you think is going to give him 6 years like Story got when currently he’s been out 40% of the Twins games…..so far?
4. As for your fascination with Kiermaier, he was not a free agent this past offseason. His existing contract was for a $12m salary this year and $13m team option in 2023 or a $2.5m buyout. THEN the Phillies would have had to trade the Rays something of value to get him – and not equal in salaries as the Rays shopping him had to do with cutting payroll. Plus the Rays were looking for a player in return that could produce in 2022 with at least 3 years of control. The Phillies have some players like that, but they couldn’t afford to trade one as they need every cheap player they have that can produce. So they took on 2 OF’s / DH’s that cost them nothing but money, with the idea that they would off salary either during or after the 2022 season. As Dombrowsk said in an interview a bit before spring training: “All we have is money to spend”. They had no one they could afford to trade that another team wanted. That was the 40 man and farm system he inherited when he took the job.
Samuel,
#1 & #3 are interconnected. I can buy that Correa is the best, when healthy. In this regard, he is a bit like Judge, Buxton, maybe Harper to a lesser degree. When they are healthy, you have an AS starter. When they get injured, you still have a pretty good player. Like I’ve said, his injuries keep him from being a $330M player, but his talent still top-tier.
In addition, his injuries are not of the nagging kind. He played 24 of the first 26, and got HBP. He then played 11 straight until he got hit by Covid.
IRT KK, some of this is speculation on part, but I’d guess that TB would’ve been happy to trade him for -0- return if Philly picked up his entire salary. and I don’t think Philly would’ve needed to do even that.
Both teams should dump this idea and start rebuilding their team.
Makes no sense for the Cubs to take that path. They should continue to add FA’s on short term contracts that they can flip if they create great value during the 2023 season. This team organization is being built for 2024-2025 with the hopes if they do it right would be sustainable.
I see San Francisco as the sleeping Giant of next year’s offseason. They’ve got a lot of money available and a changing of the guard is starting there as well
@ohyeadam – Bingo! Your analysis is correct, which is why SF is the most likely 2023 landing spot for Northern California native Aaron Judge.
Cubs should just bring up their best prospects and let them get a taste to figure out what they need to work on. Coddling players in the minors rarely produces immediate long term, consistent results. Let take their lumps, see what’s happening at the highest level, then go back down and work on those skills needed. Get that first bump out of the way.
I don’t disagree entirely, but of their top 6 prospects, Davis is the only old enough to get promoted. But his K/W in AAA needs more development. 31 Ks in 77 ABs is a disaster. He’s got other skills, but MLB pitching would eat him alive at this point.
Ricketts needs a couple of years of mid-level or below payroll to recoup some expenses on Wrigleyville. As long as the brokers keep buying up tickets and they take the loss when they can’t resell, Ricketts doesn’t care. Sundays game stated 77% sold out but there wasn’t 31K+ fans there.
Wrigley field is a phenomenal experience but is become obscenely expensive. I don’t know how sporting events can sustain these absurd price increases. 15-20 dollar beers and 12 dollar cokes is beyond price gouging. Eventually people are going to say enough and stop going all together.
Without moving some serious payroll I don’t see how the Phillies add a top SS. They have a LOT of wholes. bullpen, LF, CF, 3B and 2B. You have to figure Stott, being the young cheap option, stays at SS or 2B.
I still think they should punt the season. See what you have in Moniak and Stott. Get Harper to have the surgery. Move Castellanos and Schwarber for whatever prospects but for payroll relief. See if you can get anything for Bohm, Gregorious and Segura.
The only way this happens is Dombrowski is let go as well.
“Get Harper to have the surgery.” This is not really what this injury requires. In fact, it may make more sense to sit Harper for the remainder of the year without any surgery taking place. Rest is really the cure here.
I think people are overreacting a bit. It’s early June. The Phillies are 4.5 out of the wildcard. They haven’t played the Nationals. Which is ridiculous. In fact, they haven’t played any of the lower tier teams in any division yet. Their schedule eases up. They’ll start hitting more as the weather warms. The division seems out of reach because the Mets are a significantly better team, but the wildcard? The Phillies are 4.5 games out. They’re chasing a lot of good teams there, but in my mind, if things go right, they can get that.
That being said, I’m all about punting the season if there’s a plan. If they can get some valuable pieces for a retool, go for it.
@ VonPurpleHayes;
I wrote when they signed Kyle Schwarber that Phillies trades would be coming in-season. How well they play and who gets injured and/or healthy in the next 3-5 weeks will determine what sort of trades they make.
They had a great weekend; but as you know teams get a bump when they fire a manager. Let’s see how it goes from here….and yes, they can win a WC spot. It’s all about getting in the playoffs and peaking at that time.
You have to figure Stott, being the young cheap option, stays at SS or 2B.
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I would go with Stott and never look back. If the Phillies were deep, I might look at a SS to put me over the top. But the Phillies have far too many holes to fill, and absolutely need a couple of minimum wage players. Herrera is playing well, so he should start. But if they fall out of it, I’d turn CF over to Moniak. At some point, the Phillies have to make a decision on him. You can’t go into 2023 without knowing if he legit or not.
Cubs already have a Marquee network. Might as well fetch themselves a Marquee shortstop.
I guess it’s never too early in a season to start talking about the next season.
People keep insisting Bogaerts is poor defensively and not a shortstop, but although that’s debatable, at some point it matters that the hitter is tied for 16th on wOBA in all of MLB. Maybe the bat plays at second or third down the road?
His bat should definitely play well at other positions
There are quite a few SD fans frustrated with Fernando Tatis Jr., The guy is a manchild, no discipline, no respect and has a horrible level of personal accountability. He is also partially connected to the Trevor Bauer controversy.
A trade that returns a solid left fielder of a similar offensive skill could be a wonderful thing. Kim is a solid defender, more so than Tatis.
Tatis has a glass shoulder and falls off of dirt bikes.
Tatis Jr is not going to be traded any more than Mike Trout or Juan Soto etc..
Dream on…
You need to lay down and take a nap…there are no LFers with comparable stats to Tatis.
Heh, yea, there is no LFr of “similar offensive skill”.
Stott is starting to “break out”. Base on the decreased production of many of the SSs signed this year The Phillies might be better off making some trades and shoring up their defense “up the middle”….Like getting a young “2 way” CF.
Stott can play SS or 2B or even 3B.
I can’t see dropping another 250-300 M on one guy while the Phillies have
multiple holes to fill.
Tatis Jr is not going to be traded any more than Mike Trout or Juan Soto etc..
Dream on…