The Phillies are looking to add a front-of-the-rotation type of arm, with The Athletic’s Jayson Stark (Twitter links) writing that the Phils want “a starter who can start a playoff game.” To this end, the club has been linked to such arms as the Reds’ Tyler Mahle, the Angels’ Noah Syndergaard, and the Pirates’ Jose Quintana — three of the most prominent starting pitchers remaining on the trade market.
Mahle is controlled through the 2023 season, while Syndergaard and Quintana would be pure rentals as players who are scheduled for free agency this winter. As such, Mahle would surely cost the most in a trade, and Syndergaard carries a bit of a financial hit, with roughly $7.2MM still owed to him over the remainder of the season. By contrast, Quintana is owed only around $675K for the rest of 2022, but Quintana also has a shaky track record over the last few seasons before righting himself this year in Pittsburgh.
Dave Dombrowski, Philadelphia’s president of baseball operations, suggested earlier this week that his team was hoping to bolster the rotation, but the Phils were also hesitant about dealing any of their top prospects. Stark backs up that assertion, noting that the Phillies haven’t been willing to move any of Mick Abel, Andrew Painter or Logan O’Hoppe (the Phils’ consensus top-three prospects in the view of Baseball America and MLB Pipeline), or right-handed pitching propects Griff McGarry or Ben Brown. BA ranks McGarry fourth and Brown seventh in their ranking of Phillies prospects, while Pipeline is a little less bullish, ranking McGarry eighth and Brown 26th.
Since the Phillies’ system isn’t considered to be too deep overall, it isn’t any surprise that the front office isn’t keen on parting ways with any of the relatively few premium names on hand in the minors. However, as Stark observes, the Phils will find it difficult to obtain higher-tier pitching unless they’re open to trading prospects. Given the amount of interest Mahle has received from around the league, and given what the Reds just obtained from the Mariners in the Luis Castillo deal, it would seem almost impossible for the Phillies to land Mahle without at least one of the blue-chip prospects.
Syndergaard and Quintana would come at a lower price tag as rental players, but Stark notes that Dombrowski also prefers controllable starters. This was Philadelphia’s strategy in landing Kyle Gibson from the Rangers at last year’s deadline, and landing a starter who is controlled through at least 2023 would give the Phillies some cover since Gibson and Zach Eflin could both be free agents this winter.
The rotation seems to be Philadelphia’s top priority at this point, as Stark says that the Phillies aren’t focused on any bullpen moves for the moment. This is a little surprising given the Phils’ longstanding needs in the relief corps, but it could be that Dombrowski is first exploring his options with the starter market before turning to the (relatively) easier route of adding relievers. Also, virtually every contender in baseball is looking for relievers right now, so Dombrowski could be opting to make some late strikes after the first wave or two of bullpen trades have been made.
Also heard Lopez and Urquidy as well as targets for the team recently.
Either would cost more than Mahle so doubt the Phils would get them
I am sorry but saying the Phillies are not willing to part with certain prospects is B.S. It’s simply Dombrowski attempting to put his best poker face on. From his time with Detroit, Boston and even with the Marlins he stripped their farm’s bare trying to get a championship. He is the one executive you know will trade every prospect if he thinks it will get him that missing piece. Saying Dombrowski won’t trade prospects is akin to saying the Dodgers refuse to take on money. 4-5 years from now the Phillies might have another championship. They will send DD packing, then start a rebuild with a barren farm, several lopsided contracts and very few young controllable stars. I can’t figure out how he keeps getting the best front office jobs because the same cycle of events happen every where he lands.
Detroit and Philly were two different scenarios. Can’t compare. Also DD left Florida in great shape prospect wise. DD has a pretty diverse track record.
He keeps getting jobs because he keeps getting teams to/win the World Series.
Dombrowski is a first ballot Hall of Fame MLB Executive. Everywhere he goes, he builds winners and Champions: Montreal (before the strike), Expansion Marlins 2X World Series champs in record time(2nd Title was won by his players after he left for Detroit).
Detroit Tigers from laughing stock to 2 AL pennants 5 Division Titles and more.
Boston from middle of the pack to World Series champs under Dombrowski.
Stop blaming Dombrowski for following his billionaire boss’s orders and business plans on team construction.
If you want to blame people, then blame Mike Illitch and John Henry.
They dictated the terms of Dombrowski’s employment in Detroit and Boston. Dombrowski followed their orders.
Mike Illitch was a great owner and baseball fan, his actions both helped and hurt the Tigers as far as long term competitiveness.
Boston has had a lot of Front Office turnover over the years: Theo, Epstein, Dave Dombrowski, Ben Cherrington etc…
It seems like those 3 highly respected baseball execs could not work under Red Sox ownership for long. That is on Ownership, team culture, business plan etc….not on those 3 successful MLB Front Office leaders.
Amen, brother
I would take either of those over the three that have been mentioned. At least there is upside there. Just say no to Jose! If they have to spend prospects go for someone young like the two you mention or Skubal from the Tigers.
I always shy away from the guys with a lot of teams in on them. You can probably find Quintana-level production without getting into a bidding war with anyone.
Why would the Astros deal Urquidy?
There was a report a few days ago saying they were taking calls on him.
I don’t think that Quintana would be regarded as a front of the rotation arm, or one that I would want pitching in a playoff game. Same goes for Thor. Syndeergards reputation as a power pitcher is somehow still alive from a few years ago on the Mets. He’s not that guy anymore.
I’d be very happy with either as a number 3-4 behind Wheeler and Nola and with Gibson and Suarez as backup.
Should have got Castillo (can’t blame anyone for paying that price) if you wanted front of rotation. Thor and Q are mid at best. Rather have Q.
But the Phillies don’t have much to offer for top of the rotation arms. They’re focused on the lower tier because that’s the prospect cost they can afford
To be fair, they definitely can afford top rotation arms, but they’re being smart about holding on to Painter, Abel and the young crop of talented pitching in their system. They aren’t one ace away from a WS victory. So I like DD’s approach here. Aim for pitching a tier or two lower without giving up top prospects. Break the playoff drought without sacrificing the future rotation.
Dombrowski talking to the Red Sox about Nate Eovaldi right now. Wouldn’t take as much of a prospect package because Nate is a free agent after this year. Dombrowski got him for the Red Sox run in 2018, and DD has some loyalty. It is a name not mentioned but sometimes DD flies under the radar. And Phils have a chance to get that Wild Card, while the Red Sox are fading and signs are they will be selling off some vets: Martinez, maybe Vasquez.
I disagree Hayes. Every team has the talent to get a TOR arm but the phillies can’t afford to lose the very few prospects they have. Based on the cost of Castillo, it would take 2 of their top 3 prospects, plus 2 fliers for a Montas or Pablo lopez type. Maybe the Giants would take Logan O’Hoppe plus a low level lotto ticket for Rondon but everyone here knows if the Phillies could afford to lose their top prospects then DD would do it.
No one in baseball has a longer history of burning down the farm then DD does.
I think when you read “can’t afford” your brain translates that to, they don’t have the prospects. Every team can trade a boatload of minor leaguers and meet the asking price. What I’m saying is the phillies can’t afford to mortgage the future.
Also, Abel is getting exposed in A ball. I’m not sure other teams value him as much as Philly fans do
@MichaelSalla reading your comment I think we agree and are actually saying similar things. Phillies aren’t in a position where they should be trading their top prospects.
MichaelSallaFan;
No GM / Baseball Ops person makes major moves or heads in a direction without clearance from the Owner(s) – and oftentimes instructions from the Owners (did you know that billon dollar professional sports teams often have “Business Plans”?)…..
The Marlins owner wanted a championship in order to get a new baseball park and told DD to go for it late in the 1997 season. DD traded off a lot of the farm, temporarily took on salary, and got the championship. The voters didn’t give Wayne Huizenga his park, and he sold the franchise. Guys like you stereotype DD when he did what he was told to by the person playing his salary….and did it well.
When DD was hired by Michael Ilitch the Tigers had a terrible team and nothing resembling a farm system. DD built both up. The Tigers subsequently contended for years. Mr. Ilitch wanted a championship badly and he was fine with DD “burning down the farm”. It didn’t happen. If Tigers fans had a team that good today they’d be selling out the park for the season.
John Henry hardly sat around and watched while DD was “burning down the farm”. He knew exactly what was going on and was at the head of the Red Sox delegation receiving the 2018 WS trophy.
Follow the money……and the person responsible for paying it out.
@Von
Yeah. I’m of the mindset that any team with a top 100 guy could get a Montas type if they gave the A’s carte blanche over their farm. That’s not a wise move though.
Not knowing the directions Phillies ownership has given DD, I will say what he has to trade has never prevented him from making acquisitions. The Tigers hardly had the deepest farm at the time he acquired Cabrera. He didn’t have the best prospects when he acquired David Price. Yet he was able to do both. Its never which team has the most talent that acquires the player. Its the GM that is willing to move the talent they have. Every prospect labeled as “untouchable”, only limits the GM in his ability to acheived the goals given to him by the owners.
Boston is on 3.5 games back
I agree, not much to offer, but to get Madison Bumgarner from the D-backs would be an improvement, he’s having a decent season, and big game and playoff experrence. A good fit that probably would not cost much, maybe Moniak, Marchan and a minor league arm NOT named, Painter, McGarry, Abel, or Brown.
@ELV and PhilsSkip
I agree with your guys assessment. I think Eovaldi and Bumgarner are in the phillies price range and would let them keep their top tier MiLB talent
PhilsSkip;
Interesting.
Of course Bumgarner has been a big game pitcher. Who knows where he’s at now. However…..
The Phillies are in the Luxury Tax and want to get that down in 2023. Supposedly that was a temporary move for 2022. That is why DD is resisting trading top prospects. Bumgarner is due $18m in 2023 and $14m in 2024. At his age who knows how he’ll pitch.
That’s why I recommended Zach Plesac. He’s making $2m this year and is in arbitration for the next 3 years before he becomes a FA. If DD can’t deal directly with Cleveland, maybe they can get a 3rd team involved.
Hey PhilsSkip….Make that deal for Bumgarner
Moniak? He’s still a few years away from being a few years away! Just another example of Klentak trying to be the smartest guy in the room only to have it blow up. Same with Haseley, another wasted first-rounder.
@Samuel, I doubt the Phillies will drop below the Lux Tax next season even with Gene and DiDi leaving the team..It is widely speculated that the Phillies will be hot after Trea Turner…just my $.02c worth…
Hindsight is 20/20. Everyone ignores the fact that there were no definite sure fire top players available that year. Moniak was one of the best players available at that time. If the Phillies hadn’t taken him, he would have been chosen by another team as one of the first 5 picks.
Everyone is an expert years after a draft.
DFA Familia and you’ve improved the team.
Completely agree. 100%
Agreed, the Phillies need a Jeurys Familia Separation Policy. Bigly!
Longines, Phils have an off day tomorrow. Not a good look to DFA a guy on a road trip…And Coonrad rehabbing, Gibson on bereavement list. Good money is on the DFA in 12-15 hrs
Wow. The run up to the trade deadline has been underwhelming to say the least.
Usually is. But this year even more with Soto Ohtani Jankowski holding things up.
Jankowski was DFA. The other 2 not holding it up because other SP and OF available. Phil’s not giving up top Prospects.
WHOOOOOOOSH
Because contending teams have been underbidding. For the price of a double-A SS, Castillo would have been a Yankee…
That’s just one trade. I wasn’t trying to make it about the Yankees but the general consensus is that Seattle overpaid hoping to end their playoff drought.
No. Seattle paid market prices for a young All Star starting pitcher.
Yankees were outbid, again.
Seems like Hal’s and Cash’s plan to lowball other teams is not working, again. If they can get away with it, then fine. But, most teams have whole teams of experts, scouts, analytics, you name it.
They know the worth of their players.
I think it’s the complete opposite. I think seller’s are asking the world.
It’s a seller’s market. More so with Castillo off the table. Good luck
Please Dave don’t waste the few prospects you have on Mahle.
The Phillies need CF, and SP. Ideally the CF would be able to hit lead off
Trade for Mahle and Senzel centered around Moniak 🙂
80% of the league needs CF, and the few options out there can’t hit a lick. I’m okay with Vierling. I think SP is the big need. Especially with Eflin out.
Please NO Joey Gallo
Oh god. Please no.
If the Phillies are willing to take all of Jake Odorizzi’s remaining salary they may be able to get Jose Siri in the deal as well. Solve two problems in one trade
Phillies should have grabbed Tim Locastro off the junk pile. Yankees don’t need him. But he’s better than anyone we currently have in CF.
As a Reds fan, honestly, I would rather have Mahle take the mound in a big game than Castillo. Luis C doesn’t pitch well in cold weather and if Seattle goes to NY in late October
Disagree. Although Castillo indeed has not pitched well in cold weather, Mahle has an infuriating habit of throwing 100+ pitches through 4+ innings
Leaving 3-4 innings to my bullpen in October is not my definition of ideal
Seems like a good problem to have
Great observation!
Sounds right.
Sure is quiet …the day before the day before Deadline Day!
You’d think a couple of the egos involved would take advantage of having the stage all to themselves and do some business?
Tonight just one Game going on.
Also some Insiders are posting new Tweets but Rosenthal just recently Trades and like Kirkjen none.
Plesac from CLE has been mentioned also. He and Urquidy, guys with 2 + years of control,I’d give up Rojas,O’Hoppe and a Maton-type .
That’s fair value, but I’m real low on Plesac.
Even though I’d like to see KC extend him, Brad Keller could be available if the price is right & would provide mid depth in the rotation for a season & a half including 2 potential playoff runs & just turned 27 a couple a days ago…
Syndergaard. If the Phillies’ bullpen and hitting keep improving, they can give Thor love and thunder.
All you need is a SS prospect and the Reds will jump all over it. I believe something like 5 out of their top 6 prospects now are SS
D-backs Merrill Kelly would be a nice, under the radar pick up for someone. That said, he is very capable and under team control for three years at a reasonable rate so he would not come cheap.
We need Toyota Highlanders but are only willing to pay Ford Fiesta prices…
I think the Phillies should inquire with the Diamondbacks about Madison Bumgarner. He has playoff and big game experience and is stilll only 32. May be a good fit for the right price. I can’t imagine the D-backs looking for alot, could be salary relief for them.
Plus he can pinch hit. But can he still pitch?
D-backs would be happy to trade MadBum. Nice back of the rotation arm that can consistently grind thru five innings with lots of traffic and high pitch counts. Despite his playoff pedigree, he would not be a playoff SP on a good team.
Bumgarner has a limited no trade clause that he usually puts teams he knows he *could* be traded to on instead of worrying about the teams he doesn’t want to play for. The Phillies have been on this list before
Phillies in on Miles Mikolas as well if the cardinals don’t throw him in on the Joey Gallo trade
Aren’t the Cards looking to add pitching?
Pretty sure the Cardinals are neither trading Mikolas or trading for Gallo
That would be a shocker, no doubt. Those two are “waiver wire” candidates.
FWIW, the Phillies young trade assets have mostly boosted their value in the past few months. Even beyond Painter, Abel, O’Hoppe, McGarry, and Brown, you have Rojas running circles around everyone, Falter still killing AAA hitters, and Maton having looked improved before he was injured. Guys like Moniak, Marchan, and Muzziotti aren’t top 100, and Marchan isn’t even a prospect anymore, but they are near MLB-ready or already so and have upside. Crouse is injured but is in the same boat, and Sands is also killing it in AAA. I like this young talent crop a lot.
Familia is in again. Can he hold a 7 run lead.
I don’t think he can, Get rid of him NOW!
He did, but he looked awful. Tomorrow is a bullpen game because Gibson is on bereavement leave. So I get why he was in, but that was his last appearance as a Philly.
We can hope the Braves pick him up……
Off Monday
Yea sorry. I meant Tuesday. Gibson went on bereavement today. So they were left without a starter for game 1 against the Braves.
Dear goodness I hope they just skip his start.
It’s funny how Syndergaard turned down the Mets’ QO, signed with the Angels because he liked their ideas for using him. And now they are ready to deal him to the highest bidder.
That’s baseball, I guess.
Phillies ownership has instructed Dombrowski to rebuild the farm system and build a long term contender. Phillies are already in the Wild Card chase with Dombrowski at the helm.
Dombrowski said in an interview that they want to keep, promote and play many of their top prospects. So, unless some team blows them away offering young, controllable talent for many years, then you won’t see them blowing up their farm system anytime soon.
Minor leaguers are hit or miss. If he can trade one or two of those 5 mentioned players who arent available to land Montas I would hope he would do it. It might take 3 but maybe he can maneuver to his liking. I wouldn’t give up much for Mahle. And def not for Syndergaard or Quintana.
Maybe call up some GMs and offer 2, 3, or even 4 of them for a stud like Alcantara. You never know what’s gonna make a GM say ok.
DD says he doesn’t have an issue with starting 20 year olds in the majors. I wouldn’t be surprised to see one of the young guys get a spot start or two. The Phils have three four potential candidates. We can hope that they DFA familia and add one of them. I could see DD going after a big name nobody has even thought about also. If Sale wasn’t hurt I wouldn’t be surprised if he tried for him with Boston falling out of the race. I’m sure there will be a few surprises before the deadline but hopefully it isn’t someone’s retreads or someone getting lucky and having a career and the Phils give up the farm for him.
Ohoppe can go. He’s got no shot until age 27
Perez and Moore of the Rangers for a top 5 and top 15 prospect.
Our biggest trade deadline boost will come from getting Segura back this week and, hopefully, Harper shortly thereafter. Frankly, I’m somewhat surprised the team has done as well as it has missing arguably their two most consistent hitters.
I don’t think Didi would bring much more than a second tier bullpen arm, but I’m fine with Stott manning the six from here on out. Offensively, despite Stott’s early struggles, his and Didi’s numbers are about equal. Nowhere great, but fine enough for a nine-hitter who can play solid defense.
Need to get Castellanos going, and I don’t mean four singles vs. the Pirates. Since the end of May, he’s only hit one home run. Yes, you read that right, one lousy HR.
That’s just one more home run than I’ve hit and I don’t even play!
Hear me out Phillies fans.. Didi Gregorius for Joey Gallo, straight up. Gallo plays RF vs. RHP until Harper gets back, allowing Castellanos to DH more often. I believe some of NC’s struggles at the plate can be attributed to him playing the field every night- something he has not done regularly in years. Gallo and Harper are best friends, so I think the Phillies would be a welcomed change of scenery for Gallo. If he plays well, he could slide over to CF when Harper returns in a platoon with Matt Vierling. The Yankees could actually use another left handed bench bat and back up SS. Didi returns to the organization and city with which he is familiar with and beloved. The Phillies suddenly have great depth in the infield with the return of Jean Segura and the acquisition of Sosa. Plus we have Camargo, Munoz & Maton on the 40 man roster. I know I know, it’s Joey Gallo- but I believe both these players need a change of scenery and that these are the best fits for both players. Plus it opens up everyday SS duties for Bryson Stott.