Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and the Blue Jays “haven’t had the conversations yet” this winter about a multi-year extension, the slugger tells Sportsnet’s Shi Davidi and other reporters. Guerrero didn’t sound overly concerned about the lack of talks, saying “I’m going to stay focused on working hard and let my team take care of that.” The idea of a long-term deal between Guerrero and the Jays has been a topic essentially since Guerrero arrived in the majors as baseball’s top prospect, and though the first baseman is heading into his fifth MLB season, the clock isn’t yet ticking too loudly on Guerrero’s team control. Toronto still has arbitration control over Guerrero through the 2025 season, and the two sides already worked out a contract for Guerrero for 2023, as he’ll earn $14.5MM for the coming year.
With Guerrero set to become a free agent prior to his age-27 season, this relatively early entry into the market likely means a particularly large payday is awaiting the first baseman — whether from another team, or in the form of an extension from the Blue Jays to lock Guerrero up as the face of the franchise. As Davidi notes, the massive longer-term contracts handed out this winter undoubtedly caught the attention of both the Jays and Guerrero’s representatives, and now both sides may have a better view of what it might cost the Blue Jays to retain Guerrero’s services. Since most extension talks usually don’t begin until deeper into Spring Training, it will be interesting to watch if Guerrero and the Jays have any substantive negotiations, or if any real progress is made towards an extension.
More from the AL East…
- After three injury-riddled seasons, Chris Sale told reporters (including The Boston Globe’s Peter Abraham) that he is “very, very excited” about being healthy and heading for his first normal Spring Training since 2019. Between a Tommy John surgery, a fractured rib, and fractures to his finger and wrist, Sale has pitched only 48 1/3 Major League innings since the start of the 2020 season, which was also the first season of a five-year, $145MM contract extension Sale had signed with the Red Sox the year prior. Given the lack of return on this extension, Sale feels “I owe my teammates the starting pitcher they thought they were going to get. I owe the front office the starting pitcher they paid for. I owe the fans performances they’re paying to come and see.” Looking for a silver lining to his injury woes, Sale noted “that’s three years of [pitching] that’s not on my arm” as he enters his age-34 season. “That’s not going on the odometer. I’ve kept myself in really good physical shape. My arm’s feeling good. I don’t have any hesitation going forward with pitching.”
- Seven Rays players are slated for arbitration hearings, which is (as per MLB.com) is the third-highest number of hearings for any team in the history of the arb process. President of baseball operations Erik Neander felt the lack of agreement in negotiations with the seven prior to the arbitration filing deadline were “much more about the uniqueness of several players’ career paths leading to a bit of a more challenging experience for both parties to find common ground,” the executive told Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times. “But I very much believe that everyone worked to find it — we just didn’t quite get there.” As Topkin notes, the differences between the Rays’ submitted salary figures and the seven players’ figures work out to only $2.85MM in total. That said, it doesn’t seem likely that any deals will be worked out before the sides present their cases to an arbiter, unless a player signs a multi-year contract. [RELATED: the full list of the 33 players who are heading for arbitration hearings]
Yeah…not exactly excited about Sale.
Kind of like Kris Bryant saying he’s “healthy”
Potential low 3 ERA pitcher isnt something to look forward to with that staff?
Would love to believe you Mr Sale. I really would.
Sale got hurt during his interview with the Boston Globe.
Hmm… need to make a negative comment to show my anger at life….but can’t mention Bloom.
Confused…
Arrrrgghh Nothing about the Orioles
It is because there is nothing to report
Arrrgghhhh
Sale belongs in the hall of fame. Of course, that isn’t relevant in 2023 if he doesn’t go back to his workhorse self pre-2019. This guy had a career high 226 innings one season and has 5 seasons with 200 or more innings pitched. That’s quite a drastic shift. It is impressive that he has the all-time record for K/BB ratio with over 1000 IP, though.
He put up Hall of Fame numbers during his run with the ChiSox and solidified it with his Cy Young caliber season and World series title in Boston. And could see him with a Verlander like resurgence at some point. Just not sure with the Red Sox.
HOF talent, no doubt. Not necessarily a HOFer, though. Injuries have taken him off track in that delicate balance between peak and longevity that makes a HOFer in the eyes BBWAA voters. That aside, I’m a peak guy even more than longevity. I like true greatness more than compilers. Johan Santana should be in the HOF, as one example. Is Santana makes it, Sale’s chances improve.
Jah much better those dudes than boring Don Sutton.. Only Hall Sutton should be in is Hall of Ridiculous Perms
This is why you draft pitching and sign or draft fielders later.
So they should draft pitchers and then later draft fielders? Really enlightening stuff man
Let me spell it out for you.
Use your High pics on highly rated pitchers because they seem to break down as they’re older and signed us free agents.
If you bring them up through the system develop them and use high draft picks on them I think that’s better. With position players don’t use first round or second round picks on them.
Makes sense or you’re just being a moron? Agree or disagree but a comedian you are not.
The subject at hand is Chris Sale and how excellent he was while Young and controllable. When he signed his big money deal with Boston he was not as good anymore. He broke down physically as he got older.
Draft pitching first. Get it?
Let me spell it out for you.
Start out with:
Youth. You need to start with construction a foundation by focusing on individuals who have skills for sure but with high ceilings and a lot of room for development. .Kids who are hungry and are looking to play their way off the island, be it San Principe and Tomo, Madagascar, or Staten. Not some long in the tooth 24 year old second team all-acc guy from Wake Forest who already has his routine down with his college bras and lacks the drive or motivation is likely to quit in a few months to help run the family insurance business.
Makeup. Underrated for sho, but you need kids who won’t wilt under pressure, know their way around the team bus, who let the game slow down, but are as comfortable in the spotlight as on a back field in spring training or during meet and greets with children and small animals , Above all share an appreciation and respect for the playing the game the right way.
Control. Clearly we’ve seen many a hot prospect wash out by failing to understand that you cant steal first base you’ve got to put the ball in play whether on the bump or at the plate. You gots to make your pitches and understand you’ve got teammates behind you who are hired to catch the ball behind you.. This also means approaching the game one play, one AB one pitch at a time at the plate not playing with your hair on fire, unless you’re that rare breed like Brett Phillips.
Acuity. At the end of the day, you’ve got to have the rare skills that separate the wheat from the chaff, the “it” factor that separate the Madduxes and the Dave Parkers from the Smiths and the Joneses. At the end of the day, it’s that keeness of perception, as Merriam Webster is wont to say, that make one great in their chosen field: doctor, lawyer, Indian chief, darts— it all comes down to pitch recognition if you’re a batter or pounding the zone if you’re the one charged with ball delivery.
So to sum up- the keys to building a great system are Youth, Makeup, Control and Acuity. Spell that out and you’ve got Y, M, C and A.
Makes sense or are you just being obtuse? Agree or disagree but a philzopher king you are not.
Young and controllable are just two parts of it. What made him great though were the other intangibles. Makeup and Acuity. Y and C are allright, but you won’t realize your full potential unless you have the M and the A. as well.
You’re disagreeing with draft pitching first? Not saying I’m right but seems like when the starters Are Young it’s a lot better than getting them at 30. I understand all the points you’re making above and I appreciate your post.
I would agree with you there. You’re not just picking a guy as a starter because he’s young and controllable. Of course the other stuff comes into play too.. I thought that was a given?
But instead of drafting a second baseman or center fielder pick a pitcher and sign a second baseman or a center fielder? That’s all I’m saying.
Let me translate for the Blue Jays Brass: with Steve Cohen handing out contracts like Halloween candy, this is not the off-season they’re going to sign a premature long term contract with their star.
145 mill. 48.1 IP. 1 Mill per out. Underpay
His first contract was. His second one more than made up for it. The problem is that the wasn’t on the same team, though. It was supposed to be a bargain, though, for a guy with 7 straight top 6 finishes in Cy Young voting and one of the best K/BB ratios at that time. He had 4 200+ inning seasons before that, too.
Also, following up a WS title the sox had their ST torpedoed by Cora. The infamous slow start was followed by them playing the right at the very best baseball by winning percentage for the rest of the reason. Just too deep a hole to overcome.
Why’s that matter? It had sale gritting his teeth and trying to keep contributing, then do the injection and rest tactic, rather than give up and just get TJ right away. That cost him a good season worth of playing time after the surgery.
As far as the rest? Some bad luck mixed in there.
Tampa is soooo trading Yandy Diaz.
Yeah, I think it is definitely possible. Getting a lower price makes his trade value go up. Plus, I wonder if Diaz and Arozarena can survive another year in the clubhouse together after their fight.
He would look real nice on the Twins to replace arraez
I wonder if the jays put a weight clause in the contract when it inevitably happens
Don’t hate on people with badonkadonks!!!
I don’t. I only hate on MEN with badonkadonks!
It’s just a matter of time, maybe hours, until Jr is traded to the Padres for Kim and and and Machado
I keep thinking people are talking about the Marlins’ GM Kim.
Vlad Sr. was my favorite non-Yankee growing up. If there’s ever one player I’d be in favor of plucking from another team in an obnoxious Yankee fashion is would be Vlad Jr.. 100+ HR before his 24th birthday doesn’t hurt either.
As an Os fan I agree. Watching Sr play was incredible. The way he could get to literally any pitch was a thing of beauty. I would fully support the Os signing Jr. away anytime
I was living in Montreal during Vlad Sr’s time there. Enjoyed watching him play many times at the Big O. In a unique and rare class of hitters. Now I’m in Toronto watching Vladdy Jr play – pure, raw power, crushing pitches. He’s not as talented as his dad, though. Maybe he’ll stop acting like a stooge now that his buddies have been traded away and start taking baseball seriously.
Sale noted “that’s three years of [pitching] that’s not on my arm,” while yes he wasn’t throwing pitches, it’s not like Tommy John surgery isn’t leaving it’s mark on your arm.
He already came back from TJ in 2021 and was a big reason why the Sox made it to the playoffs. I don’t think there’s going to be any issues with the elbow.
Well the trend for long term contracts to young superstars is to go long years to keep the AAV lower. I wonder if a 14/350M, which would be 25M annually, would be appropriate for Vladdy? That takes him to his year 39 birthday where he would be the DH from around 35 years of age. I see him being able to play 1B at a high level for the next decade. Thoughts?
I like Vlad Jr.
But he can’t play a high level of 1st base now.
That being said, if I’m Jays management I would do that deal in a heartbeat.
I just not sure if Vlad Jr. would say yes to that.
He is a good defensive first baseman what are you talking about?
Umm, didn’t Vlad win the Gold Glove at 1B in the AL last year? He passes the eyeball test for me after watching 140+ games last year.
Someone had to win it.
He isn’t horrible. But he probably isn’t GG worthy.
$2.8 million difference between seven players is the personification of the Rays cheapness. The Diaz was the biggest gap, but some of the differences were just a few $100,000 away.
There’s an argument that over the years a small arb raise exponentially increases to where in the final year you may be talking a good 10+ million difference or more.
If the rays didn’t habitually run out such a small payroll that wouldn’t matter as much, but, that 10m could be 15% of their budget or more.
@GASoxFan- Yes, I get how that process works, thus why I said contesting Diaz makes sense. Diaz is asking for $6.3 while the Rays offered $5.5. That is a significant gap. Also, the Springs one makes sense to contest since he’s asking $3.55 and the Rays are offering $2.7. Those two could be significantly costly for the Rays in future arb rounds.
However, some of these other gaps scream cheapness:
Fairbanks $1.9, Rays $1.5
Poche $1.3, Rays $1.175
Thompson $1.2, Rays $1
Adam $1.755, Rays $1.55
Ramirez $2.2, Rays $1.9
Maybe they save a little in future rounds with this group, but is it really worth going through the arb process where you have to argue why your own player isn’t worth what they’re asking months before the season? The reason this is even an article is because it is unusual. Most teams aren’t this cheap and settle out to avoid bad blood with their players to begin the regular season.
Of course, you don’t know what the rock bottom filing number is until each side files.
During pre-filing deadline negotiations the player could be higher, and, team lower, then they move closer to hedge their bets.
What I don’t remember is, are the rays a file-and-trial team? You wouldn’t want to give up your pre-filing leverage by changing that policy just over being close, if that is indeed their F.O. policy
When you’re really close like that maybe you just don’t push real hard in the hearing, preserve some goodwill that way. Then again, most of those guys won’t be with the team by their final arb year anyways so…
Granted, these figures could change before the official filing and hopefully they settle some of these smaller gap ones before the official hearings. However, we do know where they’re at now. Friday was the deadline to report where the players and teams are with their figures. Maybe it changes before the official filing, but based on the report it shows that some of these current gaps are kind of ridiculous.
Regarding your question, I don’t recall how many times they’ve gone to trial in the past. If it is their FO policy to argue over $300,000 or less in hearings, it isn’t a great one and will create a lot of pissed off players in the clubhouse.
I did some Google search and it looks like the rays do go by the ‘file and trial’ mentality. As such I expect there will be hearings on the roughly 50% of guys who didn’t agree.
I suspect the players are used to seeing and hearing about other players going to hearings during their pre-arb years in the clubhouse and understand it’s just part of the business side – just like playing in the trop facilities or in front of few home fans in many contests. It’s just part of where they are, and, they’re professional enough to deal with it
That would be an awfully generous view to take. Who knows how they feel. Maybe some of them understand how the Rays do biz, but I’m sure there are some that still get pissed when their employer is pulling out all the stops to argue that they aren’t worth what they’re asking.
1. “Cheapness'” is directly related to the revenue a franchise takes in.
2. Don’t look now, but the Rays have an exceptional 1B prospect that should be up sometimes in 2023, as well as another that can [lay 3B. In the meantime Isaac Paredes – among others – can fill the gap.
@samuel – okay, not sure what your point is. If it is that they don’t make money because of attendance, you do know that teams have other streams of revenue? The Rays in particular signed a lucrative TV deal a few years ago and have always banked from their significant viewing audience. Also, all teams are getting a significant chunk from the Disney deal mlb made this offseason.
Crazy in todays market an average of .4 mil kept seven players from reaching an arbitration deal with the Rays. It’s almost like just give it to them, but I guess that sets a precedent so they can’t. Just seems like such a small number in todays game.
Degrom, Texas Ranger muted me, eh? Good for his sensitive tail. Crybaby
GhostOfKevinElster;
What does that have to do with this article?
Tell you what – I’ll mute you too. Maybe others will join in.
No one cares who may or may not have muted you. Move on. Crying about it makes you more sensitive and a bigger “crybaby”. You’re online, not gonna make friends with everyone you interact with.
Cool, Samuel. Bet you feel awesome
Ghost – muting makes it easier to read what you want without WASTING time on crap. I will mute you too. It has nothing to do with ‘crying’. Time is important as we only have a finite amount.
I think JC#1 has muted everyone. I called him out for posting foul language and inappropriate comments considering his username and misrepresenting “JC.” Zap muted. Probably only sees his own comments here except for newbies LOL.
Vlad Jr. Over Under 800 Homers ?
5 years in already, how’d that happen?
Easy under. I’ll take the under if you set it at 500.
I don’t envy the Blue Jays trying to sign Baby Vlad to a long-term deal. He’s going to want to be paid big and for a long time, but that body does not look like it will age well, and he’s already been fighting to keep weight off as a professional athlete in his early 20s. It doesn’t get easier! Amazing, considering his father’s body type was the exact opposite. Regardless, he’s going to get paid bigly.
Won’t the Rays get some cash out of the luxury tax penalties the Mets, Dodgers, Yankees and Phillies will pay? Use it to pay the players.
But i guess it doesn’t matter. All these arb eligibles on the Rays will be traded away anyway soon enough. Rays fans should be learning the names of all the Durham Bulls, Montgomery Biscuits, Bowling Green Hot Rods and Charleston River Dogs now. Go Biscuits!!!
Revenue sharing, national TV contracts, and some other centralized sources means even the “poor” clubs start with over $100MM in revenue. Cleveland, the A’s, the Rays are all issues MLB needs to address. They live off of the league.
I’m sorry but the rays are fine. Yes, they signed a boneheaded lease on the trop. Aside from that, they’re competitive most years so, if they want to do so and can find the players willing to take the salaries they do, who are we to argue.
Let’s play a game. In the last 20 years, how many NYY titles were there? 1. How many LAD titles were there? 1. How much money did those two club spend combined? I don’t know for sure, but, I’d expect it’s upwards of $7billion or more. And in the same time I’d bet the rays have spent maybe 1.5billion.
Now if rays fans want to gripe about losing their star players I’ll listen. But I don’t see them as a ‘problem’ team in MLB, in so far as their fans go along with how they do things.
The rays have the 4th best winning % in the last 15 years at a quarter the cost of the 3 above them. The owners IS a cheapskate but he has the smartest front office in baseball. If they get the new stadium and he puts another 25 million into the salary that would be great, but I doubt he would
GA – You know I know the answer to all these questions. Yankees 1 title and roughly $23MM more than Boston per year for two decades. Dodgers 1 title and it took OUR MOOKIE to make it happen. Spent 2nd most to Yankees.
The Rays on average are over $100MM per year less in payroll than both the Yankees and Dodgers.
@GA, a bit of a strawman. At no point did I say the Rays weren’t well run. In fact, the three teams I mentioned —Cleveland, the Rays and the A’s — are very well run in one aspect. Even the A’s. It’s quite clear what they’re doing right now, and there is intelligence behind it, but it is illustrative of why MLB has an issue in these markets. You may disagree.
As for your second paragraph, I enjoy your butt hurtery. :-). For the future, if you have to make your argument using arbitrary begin and end points, then you’ve lost your argument. As for spending, please add in the other side of the financial ledger so we may continue our discussion.
20 years isn’t arbitrary. The rays haven’t been around much longer than that and I don’t think it’s all that fair to not allow a franchise a couple years to get themselves situated before running the clock, a couple drafts, a couple chances to compete for free agents. Or should we count LA and NY cycles where the rays didn’t even exist going back 50, 70, ??? years or more?
What ‘other side of ledger’ is of concern? I fail to see the point.
The only people who claim the Indians or Rays are a problem market is the mlbpa, or someone buying into the theory every team needs to run a negative balance sheet every year to guarantee players the revenue and pay non-player expenses and ROI from thin air.
Sale will struggle to be fine in 2023 because Cora is the manager who thinks he has the baseball knowledge to change mechanics of a perennial all-star pitcher. Cora is a cheater which speaks to his character. He’s a know it all which speaks to his enormous ego and he’s a twit, the kind of guy who has a huge ego and no reason for it.
Fire Cora and Sale might win a Cy Young. If you keep Cora then trade Sale and set him free to go win the Cy Young elsewhere because the shackles Cora puts on pitchers will never allow one to be great. 2018 he destroyed Sale’s season. He destroyed Price who was a Cy Young award winner. Every excellent pitcher that has played for Cora has under performed because Cora’s ego off the charts and his knowledge is microscopic.
2023 is a wasted season. Whether Sale does well or not means 5 to 15 wins for a team with a base target set of wins around 70. Let the guy come back, keep Cora out of his face, and let him pitch “his way”. That’s the best chance for the Red Sox to be a .500 team.
Bo and Vladdy are both gone the reality is no one wants to play in Canada! Why would you….
There are plenty of players who are perfectly happy to play in Canada. Stop projecting your childish, petty xenophobia on others.
Next week, Chris Sale and Madison Bumgarner talk dirt bike jumping and how in a completely unexpected freak accident, both break their arms doing something they shouldn’t be doing.
I’m looking forward to seeing what he’s got, his TJ is now 100% healed, and he’s had pretty much zero hard use of that arm since.
Just need to keep him in a bubble when he’s not pitching, and remind him not to be an idiot with his bare hands.
Some people forget how good he was before the arm injury, which unfortunately they just tried to “Rest”.